 Well, and on a personal note, this is really, this is really special to me as a black indigenous woman in this moment hearing my indigenous people, black people, and their voices getting heard. Rashad and Chris, you both lead organizations that really are focusing on relating those voices and helping broader communities to understand how to engage with the issues that folks are becoming more aware of. Chris, I'll start with you. Talk a little bit about illuminative and how you're thinking in the ethos of illuminative and what you guys are up to in this time. Yeah, definitely. Well, thank you so much. It's so good to be here and thanks to Spectrum for inviting me. And I just, I first want to start off and just say, Rashad, it's good to see you. And I'm sending you good thoughts. I feel like every time I turn on the TV, you are there. And I just hope that you're finding some time to sleep and take care of the work that you and Color of Change are doing. It's just, it's beautiful. It's powerful. It's needed. And I bet you're tired. So, you know, really illuminative was founded based on a body of research. It was the largest public opinion research project ever done about Native Americans. If we wanted to get into the minds of the American public and understand what are the dominant narratives about Native peoples, what are those perceptions and how do those perceptions that non Native people have about Native people. Impact us. It's called the Reclaiming Native Truth Project. Nadia was actually our founding like sort of program officer at Kellogg. Kellogg was our angel investor in that, in that work. And really what that work showed us is that, you know, invisibility is the greatest threat in many ways to Native peoples, and that nearly 80% of Americans know little to nothing about us. 72% of Americans never even encounter information about us on a daily basis. And what that causes is that nearly two thirds of Americans don't even think we face discrimination. And which doesn't line up with the fact that we, you know, like our, you know, African American, you know, relatives, you know, win the ways that we don't want to win when we talk about health disparities, right. Or the fact that, you know, proportionately to our population, Native Americans, you know, die at the hands of police at, you know, the highest, some of the highest rates in the country. And so really, you know, as we found it illuminative and began to understand the power of invisibility to feel bias and racism and discrimination. We really began to see it was a systems wide issue, right. That's perpetuated in media and entertainment, K through 12 education, our systems of government. And it's really institutionalized in terms of not only our erasure, but that systemic racism that's really with embedded and permeates every level of our society. And so really illuminative mission has really been about calling out those systems of racism and discrimination that are impacting Native peoples today. Yeah, so that's really, you know, and now more than ever in this, in this moment, you know, we stand with our African American brothers and sisters, and we feel it. And I feel angry every time I see a white person get on TV and say that systemic racism is an issue in this country. And it's it's it permeates every level of our society and I'm just also at the same time just so moved and called to action with so many who are taking to the streets that I think we're really in an incredible moment for change. Rashad, I know, you know, I'm not Oprah, but you know, I try to be in my in my spare time. But color change, you guys are really driving a lot of the conversation and really helping to amplify the real issues that are going on here. What what what are you guys up to right now? How are you guys managing all of the incoming right now, especially around so many voices want to be heard right now. Yeah, Oprah, Oprah called me to thank me for the thing and I don't answer black calls and so she left the message, which is actually great because I couldn't at least play it for my mom. And so, and so there was that sort of moment. Awesome. All of all of that, all about a side right. Part of what we try to do with all of this work is we talk about translating presence into power. And what does that mean right it means that visibility and awareness that retweets stories in the front of the page are not enough. If we don't have the ability to change the rules, right America can love black culture and hate black people at the same time. And so we can't mistake a black president for the ability to actually in systemic racism, all of those things. Present is important visibility is important awareness is important, but far too often we kind of stay there and so what we are really focused on is how do we drive as much energy towards strategic action. If you had talked to me three weeks ago I would have told you 1.7 million people have taken action with color of change in the last eight months. And that would have made us the largest race online racial justice organization the country would have made us have the largest sort of digital footprint in terms of email list and being able to actually move people up a ladder of engagement. Out of any sort of racial justice organization. Today I can say over 7 million people have taken action with us in the last eight months. That is incredible unprecedented amount of growth in terms of people sort of wanting to take action. And what we hold a real high standard about is like what kind of action is actually strategic. How do we actually drive people towards things that will change. And so when I talk about narrative change I am really talking about the rules and norms of society. What is acceptable and wanted and what is possible on the other end right white people taking up their cell phones now and a Starbucks and filming something and knowing that they've got to send it in because of their movement has changed their context and then how do we then translate to actual like systemic rule change at corporations. How do we change that rule change in terms of how police engage. How do we change that in terms of having elected a district attorney in Philadelphia that now doesn't prosecute in that situation because there's been a new set of power sort of a new set of dynamics created. And so we're constantly thinking about how do we channel that energy. How do we make good on that energy. And so the thing I will say before we sort of continue is right when we're talking about sort of this moment around criminal justice. We're talking about sort of as we're talking about policing. You know for the last 20 years in this country violent crime has steadily went down basically steadily went down. But according to Pew and others most Americans think that violent crime is going up. So here is where we talk about narrative right not just stories out in the world but the gap between perception and reality and the gap between perception and reality creates all sorts of demands for type policing that is unnecessary. It disincentivizes investments that we should actually have it creates a costile climate right and so we could so then how do we then deal with it right and so I color change we very much think about narrative infrastructure and I've done a lot of writing about narrative infrastructure. You can find some of that at color of change dot org backslash narrative power and and sort of there you can sort of see some of the ways in which we're really talking about how do we actually build the infrastructure to control the way our stories are told. And so that means that we've got to control and deal with the rules as social media platforms. We have to deal with the rules and how stories are told in news. We have to engage Hollywood and deal with the rules of how stories are told. Yes we have to find ways to Investment committees to Yes. Yes all of all of these places right because actually when we and so like up to that point right over the course of the last two weeks. I've gotten more calls from corporations. Yeah. Then I mean more unsolicited calls I should say sometimes They call me back when we call about campaigns but I'm getting calls I'm just waking up to announcements from corporations saying we're giving us money that I have active campaigns again so I'm like no you're not giving us money but I would love to get on the phone with you and now CEO now that you want to talk I've got some things I need you to do. And so all of that to say right we are there is this moment there is this context I write a monthly column monthly recently because I haven't delivered but I just published today and I talk a lot about the intersection between race politics and corporate power and really trying to Back go back to this idea of not mistaking presence for power not allowing black lives matter hashtags to lead hashtags to lead the day but actually allowing the actions that actually make black lives matter be the sort of framework for what we accept. That's right. And so that's a question for like how do we take these folks who are just coming to understand the narratives that how the narratives have been presented and the reality right so we're raising up native black Latinx all these different these groups are starting to be able to have a voice around how can those of us who are here as investors as social enterprises entrepreneurs individually right so Nadia talked about good intention folks. So how do how do we start to learn about these histories and really steep ourselves in this so we don't get in your ways. Yeah, I mean I think it's it's one it's turning over the mic it's creating space for those conversations and understanding that you will be uncomfortable right and this is the moment this is really the moment to sit back to listen to create the space to really understand the role that you know systemic racism plays and when we talk about real things like white supremacy right and understanding right that who is really controlling these different rules these norms all of these systems right that Rashad just talked about right we have to look at it it's not just one place that we're going to find it these dominant narratives these things are being perpetuated by large scale systems in this country and we have to have a reckoning. Right and there has to be a reckoning in this country and in this moment that this country is built on stolen land. It's built on stolen bodies and stolen labor and you know when we went out and we did our research so many Americans we talked to said you know what all of that happened a long time ago. That's a long time ago everybody needs to get over it. But what we saw play out on the streets of Minneapolis what we see happen with you know Amad Arbery when we see the same officer that killed George Floyd killed a leech like tribal citizen Wayne Rates right this is going on and on and on this is not new this has been happening it's just thank God. You know that we now cell phones have video cameras right and there is that culture shift there's that norm shift that people are pulling out their phones right but it's really that recognition that this isn't going away right that this is this is the wrecking that needs to happen and it's good for everyone but it is really about the intentionality of not just corporation standing up and the hypocrisy that came out on blackout Tuesday with so many different corporations right who are out there like the Washington football team saying we don't we don't support racism. When their team name is a dictionary defined racial slur. So Roger Goodell NFL. You know what you made one small step you should have apologized to Colin Kaepernick right you should go a lot further than that but if the NFL and all these professional sports teams and so many are really committed to ending systemic racism then their words need to be more than just these hollow kind of words that they put out on social media right this really comes with every aspect of it which includes the racism that Native Americans have faced at the hands of professional sports the right or the way that Native Americans are erased within media and entertainment right even though you know we see these instances of police violence and other things happening in our communities. They're not covered even by the admission of media right and Native Americans so in this moment we really need a conversation around racial justice and about any systemic racism that is really all inclusive. Right and we need our white allies. We need those folks to step back and create space and hold space right in this moment and to listen to the people that are closest to the pain that really understand and I could really think in that way with that great intentionality and it's going to be uncomfortable that way what we're really going to start to see the change. Yeah I think it's also and I was just going to echo on your point there Crystal that it's also about us individually understanding our own power in the in the way that the power flows within our respective system so for instance for us and investments where I'm where I said is you know is that how investors and how they don't recognize their power and how that can perpetuate in a personal structural violence through you know you're you're not good enough to be in our fund or even making folks jump through a tremendous number of hoops to get to a no right I've seen this time and dime again and so I'm curious Rasha just like as we think about our individual sectors that we all represent like how do we start to changes from the inside out. Yeah, I really want to pick off of pick up off of where Crystal was going because I think of just incredibly important actually when folks have been asking me what are some of the worst sort of like displays of sort of like corporations I always use the Washington football team as one of my examples of the good go to just yeah I mean well that just being part of the NFL in and of itself and then sort of the years and years of campaigns and some of just the sort of work. I have done in very very small ways to help at different times advise folks who have been trying to run campaigns or give some you know support but I want to give you all some things that you can do now because I feel like here's some things that I think you can do first. We have to stop telling stories that are unfortunate and start telling stories that are about unjust right when we tell stories that are fortunate like a car accident like it sort of just happened. There's no one to blame. There's no sort of systems at play. We give people permission to move for move forward with charitable solutions to structural problems right. We give people too much credit for simply sending water bottles to Flint then forcing corporations to pay their fair share of taxes. So folks actually have clean pipes that we give people credit for doing service days at inner city schools instead of recognizing that our tax structure which has been been built upon so many sort of years of of of racism of austerity of economic choices that it is not an accident that these schools are this way and it's it is it has been a choice of our government and we can simply give credit for mentorship days at inner city schools we actually have to change the schools charitable solutions to structural problems is what we end up getting when we tell stories that are unfortunate rather than unjust. We far too often talk about black communities indigenous communities communities of color women we talk about folks poor folks all the time is vulnerable. You know, I am vulnerable sometimes when I see an ex that's too happy on social media my that's when I do something do something personal for myself I happen to call my therapist like working out so that I'm not doing something like that's an individual thing that I've got to work on that's vulnerability. Black communities are not vulnerable we've been attacked. We have been targeted. We have been exploited like when you talk about our communities as vulnerable then the energy goes to fixing our communities and our families not fixing the structures that actually put us in harm's way. And it takes away it's this way in which we use a passive voice for systems and active voice for people, when in fact we have to, if you actually want to solve these problems, we have to put the active voice on the systems that harm us. You know, we will say things like black people are less likely to get loans from banks instead of banks are less likely to give loans to black people we will say indigenous people. Can you say that again for the folks in the back. We will say black people are less likely to get loans from banks, instead of saying banks are less likely to get loans from black people. Right then what we do is we spend all of our time with financial literacy programs for black people to help fix us to get into a system that is actually systemically excluding us, we don't force the system to actually have to change. We put the energy on people right, we will say indigenous folks black folks women are less likely to get hired by tech companies, instead of saying tech companies are less likely to hire us. Right, then we end up with oh let's do mentorship programs so these folks are ready to get inside of systems that have been designed to exploit keep them out target them. We do this all the time in terms of the ways in which we what we put our energy into. Finally, I want to say that you know we are in a deep moment of like cultural and political change where I believe inflection points are those things where we can go radically forward or move radically backwards. And part of that is that we can't just talk about black people in this moment and talk about the pain and talk about the struggle. Yes, that's sometimes how the activism comes. But I want to be really clear that black people indigenous folks, we are the protagonists in the American story. Right, no one has fought harder to get educated and vote in this country than black people and have to do it and had to do it in the face of so much struggle and I. I just simply kind of need to make sure that we are constantly just as we are talking about policing as we are talking about these moments of black pain that we are also centering black brilliance black creativity black joy. In this moment black joy is not the absence of pain but it's the presence of aspiration, not just what we are fighting against but what we are fighting for. And the importance of that is as even as we think about right when I think I agreed to this I think we were in the sort of covert age and where that was the sort of main story we're talking about sort of the ways in which we were seeing all of the failures of our government that the targeting of our government on black folks come to bear as this disease ripped across and we weren't seeing nearly enough of it. When we took about our indigenous brothers and sisters in terms of the invisibility of all of the ways in which they've been exploited by the targeting and austerity that's happened on both indigenous lands and non indigenous lands in terms of the healthcare disparities. Both of those things are sort of very clear and those stories are different and as a result the levers are different. But I say that to say that black people were at the front lines of being on essential workers, providing the kind of tools, food, resources that we need we created some of the most joyful and hopeful spaces on Instagram live and on social media that help people sort of get through this struggle if we can't if we only can tell stories of pain and not tell stories of hope aspiration and joy. We don't actually build an opportunity to build the energy for us to fight for a better tomorrow so I just say that as we think about what we can do today. There are things that all of us are doing in the stories that we tell and the language that we use that incentivize the wrong things that put the focus on the wrong type of action and narrative right if it is the sort of rules and norms of society what is acceptable and what is possible, then we have to raise the floor and what's acceptable and push up the ceiling on what's possible, shifting the rules on what we can demand and what we should have and all of that has to do with how we engage as much as the how the world. Thanks Rashad. I think a proud for folks in our field and philanthropy and investment I think about the work that you know by colleagues that are investing are starting where we don't know how to do this we're trying to create entirely new value systems right and conversations and so for me I know I'm committed to working on making sure how we are including communities and not because we all make choices every day and we have choices that we can make that that are better than others for communities and others are not and I think that it's in context of these conversations with you both it's it's going to be on all of us to really look about look at those decisions we've made and if those are decisions we want to make in the future. I'm going to turn it over to crystal for one closing and Rashad for some closing remarks. So you are allowed to two kind of next steps for folks on the call right where what to read obviously your websites are incredibly you can see them here in the in the chat room and incredible resources but what else can folks do to work on themselves so they can understand these narratives. Yeah and I just really want to tag on to what you know Rashad was saying about the power of these stories right these dominant narratives about black and indigenous peoples and in the prevailing narrative about Native peoples is that we are broken and we are problem to be solved and we require a savior to come in and fix us and that has been the narrative that played out all throughout Kobe 19 right instead of recognizing actually tribal nations overall have managed to keep their lives down and despite the systemic and you know massive failures of the federal government to really stand up to its obligations to Native peoples and I think to all peoples I mean it's COVID laid bare the gross inequities in a system of which people of color indigenous peoples are the ones that are right in the bullseye right that are suffering the most because of these systemic failures and so it's really beginning to understand how the power of those stories in particular with Native peoples that were problem to be solved or we just sort of don't exist that is rampant throughout philanthropy in this sector and then that is part of the problem and the power of saying recognize that part of the problem you know and Rashad I read another conversation not too long ago and I was sharing that I spoke to a program officer at the height of COVID saying we need resources because invisibility is a matter of life or death during this pandemic we need to get resources out so that we can really put them to work in Indian country and was literally told that that foundation had already funded another Native project it might fund one more and that was sort of this cap within. Now I know this person to be a good person right but I know that she's also operating within a system within philanthropy and knowing that less than because of what 8% of communities of color and indigenous peoples get foundation dollars I mean these are the things if you want to help them sitting in your rooms and sitting in those chairs and those decisions is to have a real reckoning to look at the way that all of these things including within the space of philanthropy and when we talk about investment how it's perpetuating some of these things and there is such an amazing opportunity to turn to look to Native peoples not as a problem to be solved but partners at the table around real solutions that yes to celebrate also Native joy Native brilliance Native innovation there is so many good things happening but yet we can't nobody wants to let us out of that box of disparity and we are ready it is happening. We are breaking through standing rock was the signal of that right and the power that Native people are building and we will be at the table we are going to be a force that we want to join forward and when it comes to the election this fall. You know in those seven critical battleground states native boy vote is going to be incredibly important and we are so excited Indian country so excited to stand shoulder to shoulder with everyone that wants this change. Right so my guess my final point would be you know come follow us on illuminative be a part of you know these calls to make the Washington football team finally change the name right to have the level of accountability to bring down statues of Columbus and all of these other symbols of hate and racism in our country. That is a beginning and just the work that you can do within your own space and in job. Thank you crystal for shot close out. I think we're seeing a lot on the news right now and I think it's really important that we remember that people don't experience issues they experience life at the forces that hold us back or in in a related political inequality goes hand in hand with economic inequality. A racist criminal justice system requires a racist media culture to keep it alive to keep it sustained to create the demand for it and all of those things operate and so you know I there are no silver bullets to dealing with structural inequality and structural racism. Right. What I know is that what we need is power we do not have a lack of ideas. Our movement has tons of ideas some are more aspirational than than I'm ready and maybe my members are ready to fight for some are our our way to reform base right so it's not the question of ideas and innovation it is the question of power. And so the question is is what do we do together to like build the power to actually change those rules long term. So I guess I just want to welcome you in to join us. Visit color of change dot org backslash narrative power and download some of the writing we have more coming out some of the stuff I was supposed to finish is not quite done because of everything that's been happening and and I get to be a perfectionist about some of this. Can you just sleep on one hour a night I mean the two.