 It could be Because they've always been Australian actors, but like Rick Springfield, they've had to change their accent When they got here in order to be marketable true But I but I could name like I went to an accident on time But I could name a list like 10 12 people that are all you know They're either still working or have had their heyday in the last 20 years that are all exceptional It's in them in the very crowded sort of entertainment market. And I just I don't know I feel like something's going on like you guys I don't know what it is something the water. I don't know They all come from the same school so maybe that that school is and yeah Nida is the the one that pretty much every famous actor you can think of who is Australian comes from that school Hey, by the way, Peter. How do you want me to introduce you these days just? From Sydney morning, Harold Sydney morning. Oh, I was ready to start. I'll meet control. You've got it. I gave it to you when you weren't looking. Oh Fancy that Fancy hat had to run over to the door and get my two vola meals for my smart oven They come packed in ice, but I like to get them in the fridge as soon as possible it's like those Loom on that he's taste of Chicago deep-dish pizzas. I used to order gifts back in ice Dry ice even these aren't dry ice. There's some other gel ice that stays frozen Yeah, I got one of those I keep it I keep a bunch of them in the freezer now because I was keeping them But then after a while, it's like, okay, they're recyclable supposedly so I just put them in their cycle I was thinking about buying a freezer and sticking in the garage just to hold them as long as you know Extra meat from Oscar. I'm on eBay. All right. You guys Yeah, I'm just gonna throw one more link in just the surface studio review. I did a couple weeks ago Oh, good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just put it you can insert here. I'll give you a space actually on line 26 Warriors, all right Here we go Daily Tech news show doesn't have any ads. It's powered by you to find out more head to daily tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech news for Wednesday, June 7th 2017. I'm Tom Merritt joining me Scott Johnson as he does on Wednesdays How are you sir? I'm fantastic. Tom's good to be here. Thanks for having me as always And we're lucky enough to have Peter Wells from the City Morning Herald with us as well Peter in our time zone, but still having been through the ringer of WWDC coverage. So we appreciate you joining us man Look, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you, Tom We're gonna talk with Scott and Peter both about Apple's appeal to creative professionals They they came at you hard on Monday with that keynote Peter's had a chance to actually look at a bunch of these projects products Wrote up a great review for the City Morning Herald about the iMac So we're gonna talk about all of that and of course Scott you you are a creative professional Yeah, I'm really curious about the hands-on because I'm a little conflicted on the side of the world Especially in the middle of a conversation. We're having about Apple trying to appeal to creatives It used to be the other way around and I don't know how that got switched up We have a interesting link to business insider about an article about how the two companies are kind of doing each other's job Right now and it's fascinating But to just say the words Apple is going after creatives feels a little like upside-down land So we'll get to all that I guess. All right, let's start with a few tech things you should know about Twitch expanded its referral program so that any twitch affiliate could get a 5% cut of games bought through links on their channel So you don't have to be a full-on partner just an affiliate. That's still not every single person that streams though, right? Yeah, it's also not it's just nice that there's a middle tier or a way to sort of go from I just stream occasionally and All the way up to partnered something in the middle is kind of nice So I think that's a good move for them Henry Fisker released images of the forthcoming Emotion electric car with a promised range of 400 miles and a top speed well above any modern speed limit These are open for pre-order by the end of June. So Tom start start saving your pennies Fiskers back. We have a competitor for Tesla All right, here's some more top stories Apple plans to put about 400 machines that repair damaged iPhone screens in non Apple repair stores across 25 countries by the end of The year Apple said the distribution of the machines These are the machines you might hear called horizon machines could help reduce wait times for repairs at Apple stores They're just kind of getting overwhelmed Apple said right to repair legislation has nothing to do with this decision One machine has been tested at a Miami Best Buy store They'll keep that one going and then the company will add them to stores in Minneapolis and Sunnyvale, California next you seem slightly Unsure if they mean it when they say it's got nothing to do with the right to repair Why do you say I didn't say anything I didn't say any such thing. I just used an extremely sarcastic tone of voice Yeah, I mean, I don't know whether it does To be honest I think if you take that out of the equation Apple might still want to make the same decision because if they're getting overwhelmed Which they are at the Apple store and they're like look the majority of these are just screen repair Let's license out these machines, you know and take some of the pressure off that would make perfect sense to me Yeah, I think so too. I mean it when they first There was first word of this machine what a year and a half ago or something that it existed and that Apple had this really cool Machine that would swap out your screens and and all that my mind went to oh Well, this will eventually be everywhere I go if I've got a problem with my screen So this seems natural. It's just funny timing is all yeah Peter. What do you think? Yeah, I'm sure it also has nothing to do with the ACCC court case that's happening down here in Australia as well That's what I'll say. I mean Hey, it doesn't it doesn't right? I feel like it's one of those things they do anyway But they certainly look at it and go, you know, and this will also demonstrate that blah blah blah blah blah Absolutely, I mean we've got you know Apple stores in so it's four major cities across the country But there's a lot of space between those four major cities So yeah, if they could have some of these machines in some of the cities that they currently don't have Apple stores in that would Be fantastic as well. They are playing a game of how many how many birds can I actually hit with the single stone? And they're going for more to try to add a few birds Rolling out these new features for elected officials I don't know if you guys have heard about this constituent badges constituent insights and district targeting Badges are for people who live in the officials district and will appear when commenting on content from their elected representative Insights let elected officials and their constituents see what content is popular in the district itself And finally targeting lets officials make posts and polls only viewable by users who live in their district Facebook getting all into the how to parse political information world All about the civics With Facebook because they have that town hall section now as well Which kind of integrates with this and they you know They've got some measures in place to make sure that people aren't constantly switching their addresses so that they can badger Representatives that aren't in their districts. I don't know how you guys feel I look at this and I'm like I'm not opposed to this in any way I think they absolutely should do this and it's great on the priority list. I wonder if it's Going to be as effective as the priority and effort they've applied to it But but I don't want to criticize it because making it easier for you to communicate with your elected officials and for your elected Do officials to hear what their constituents are saying is a good thing? Well, I mean not to put the the hat on made of tinfoil, but Is it possible that these kinds of things are Just peripheral efforts to curb The kind of I don't know how they do this But the kind of vitriol that Facebook is currently known for in political circles and being able to sort of corral things a little bit or at least Give some give some things some sensible borders or some basic ideas of how they can do this Peter Do you think that's what's happening or is this a veiled attempt by Zuckerberg to run for office one day? Well again two birds one stone Multiple birds. Oh, yeah, look, I mean, I think they've got the data. It makes sense for them to do this And yeah, I mean it does sound like a really Needed thing. I mean, I've read stories of of certain politicians being overwhelmed by a kind of a nation nationwide you know a strategy to Change people's minds, but I don't know so I can see I can see the logic behind this I Facebook and politics is just it's just such a weird topic. It's getting to talk about the one thing I will say is the knee-jerk reaction has been oh people are Talking unproductively at people. Let's filter them. Let's provide more moderation and ban tools and that doesn't help the conversation That that may help You know curb the worst offenders, but that doesn't improve discourse This is the kind of thing that actually tries to go more at the root of the problem and say hey Instead of just trying to control what people are saying Let's give people more avenues to try to understand their elected representatives The reason I Scott that I would fall short of saying this really helps to change the tone of discussion is I think that tone is caused By things outside of Facebook. I don't think there's anything Facebook can do about that It's caused by the political institutions and how they're run Yeah, if they want information to continue to flow freely from their users, then they can't do too much to curb that I totally get that and I agree with you. I do think though By by creating a pods of a sort and saying hey come in here And you can have these conversations and do it with these structures is probably a good thing But I also know there's a lot of people are gonna just rebel against this idea They're gonna hate the idea that you're trying to pigeon-toe them or that you that the official will only use targeting I think you might pigeon-hole them because I don't know if you pigeon-toe people that sounds painful Yeah, that's a good point But if but if you know targeting letting officials target their constituents is gonna make a bunch of anarchy-minded people go whatever Facebook Lowell and they're gonna run away with the place on fire like this It's all it's all about semantics at that point right because targeting sounds horrible But all it means is hey, we want to make a post and only the people who actually can vote for us and that we represent We'll see that post because that's all it's you know, that's all it's meant for Or the poll we just want to find out okay people who live in our district. What do you think of this? Mm-hmm be interesting how they see how they verify you are who you are like if you are to be targeted and you are somebody who can vote in the district great, but if you're somebody who's Spoofing your location or there's a thousand other reasons why you know you actually the touch French article goes into that and let me get Let me pull it up so I can get the exact details, but they've got a few measures in place Anyone can fake it address Facebook has put controls users can only be a verified constituent Based on and of course ads started showing up so Based on that a lot Verified constituent based on one address at a time. Oh, okay person changes their address their badges removed from prior posts and Facebook also limits the number of times an address can be changed. Yeah, so you can't just keep That's good. Once you pick an address. It's gonna be hard to keep changing people a poke at it But it's good. I glad I'm glad that they're doing those things I I mean, I'm trying to find a downside to this. I can't really think of one It seems like a responsible civic thing to do and I'm glad they're doing it. Oh No, it is time it's time for me to explain to folks. They have missed last Thursday Justin Robert Young suggested we engage in a summer of sharks In other words, we bring to your attention the security vulnerabilities not to scare you But so that you have lots of examples to maybe scare straight some of those friends of yours who are dismissing Security concerns so we got three of them for you right now security researchers at the cyber security research center at the Ben-Gurion University Have developed a way to send information using the LED activity lights on an infected router Yeah blinking lights so jump in the air gap the infected router So you have to infect the router that's the first step the infected router looks for specified data breaks it down into binary and then Transmit it through LED activity lights on a router's ethernet ports. Here's the second thing first you got to infect the router Then second you have to get a camera or optical sensor pointed at the router So you have to be in proximity You don't necessarily have to have physical access you can go through a window or something But you have to be able to see you have to have line of sight on the router But researchers were able to transfer data at a rate of a thousand bits per second per LED or 0.25 kilobytes per ethernet port Looks like we've lost Scott for a second there, but yeah, I probably got to his router is my guess Yeah, yeah, I mean is this really gonna scare people though? Like how many people are thinking that this is something that could happen to them if if the If the the hoops you have to jump through of getting physical access to the router Are there? Yeah, it's not going to be a terribly practical Way of it of getting at something but it does show and this is what all this research does It does show a potential vulnerability. So at the highest levels If you're involved in in in severely classified information You want to make sure that maybe all your ethernet LEDs are pointed at walls that nobody can get to or they're turned off entirely Or covered with black tape or something So I just want to point out that the the call kicked me And I think it's because of summer of sharks. I think there's no That's what we were suspecting is that maybe someone got to your router Did you see a drone with a camera pointed at your router right before you went there? You mean like the usual drone with a camera that's always have my window. Yeah. Yeah, that would finally got to you All right. Well, let's move along to the next Story in the summer of sharks The NSA contractor reality lay winner. Can I just say for a second? That's the greatest name in the world I know we're all kind of you know having a heyday about this news, but that name reality really it's amazing Anyway was arrested on Saturday for leaking classified information to the intercept about cyber attacks Winner was one of six who had printed the information and the printout that was published by the intercept contains tracking information Used to identify winner every laser printer and this blew my mind by the way when I read this every laser printer uses microscopic dots or lines mostly on color printouts To encode information like date and time and so on printout published by the intercept was made on May 9th at 6 20 a.m In the morning and the lifehacker article that we're using as our source here points to an EFF article where you can actually Check what they mean They show you how to find the microscopic dot use a magnifying glass to read it And then be able to decode the date and time of any printout done by a laser printer That's crazy. Is that a thing that the laser printers? Companies have to adhere to they must like that must be some standards I don't know if it was a have-to or or a should or a anti-counterfitting measure There's some anti-counterfitting measures that have gone in place for this sort of thing Maybe it's to get third-party toner sellers out of the market or something Yeah, it doesn't seem to affect that but I'm sure they wouldn't mind Pete. What do you make of this? This is terrifying. Okay, that's summer of chunks has got to me now. Yeah It's just a date and time but it means anytime you print something people will know exactly when you did it That's how they caught reality lay winner Because they looked at that and said well, okay Who printed on May 9th at 6 20 a.m. And then they got corroborating evidence from email as well But that might have been enough right there. Yeah, if she makes chicken for dinner. Is it winter winter chicken dinner? I was good. I was skipping that one personally. I thought it don't don't get me wrong. I'm no better than you But yeah, hopefully that is what they're feeding reality lay winner in great one more in the summer of sharks researchers from antivirus company e-set published a report Tuesday on a backdoor Trojan that uses comments on Britney Spears official Instagram account to locate control servers that manage data on infected computers This is both funny and also incredibly interesting a fire fox extension Masquerading as a security feature you had to trick people into installing this thing But once it was installed it would compute hash values for each comment on Britney Spears Instagram if the hash matched 183 that would say, okay This is a comment from one of our people or bots It then would run a regular expression on the comments text in order to convert it to a bit.ly URL So it looked for some special characters and after each one of those special characters It would pull out the characters that would make up the bit.ly URL that bit.ly URL would then lead to the control server for the malware Why Britney Spears specifically? I mean why'd they target her because you figure it's not going to go down It's not gonna get deleted, you know and and your comment will be lost in a sea of other comments Nobody will really notice it. Yeah, she's got a lot of followers over there. That's fascinating to me I mean, you know what summer of sharks should continue. Can we have fall of sharks? Winter of sharks as well because man, these are great hack me, baby one more time Attribute that to bio-cat in the chat room, by the way Pete is this are you finally? I mean, I know you were you already I was already on board That's the last one. Does this push you farther into the waters? This is fantastic. This is so good Yeah, I love everything about this. I mean, yeah, of course you have to install the Firefox extension But I just oh my god, like and what other Amazing Instagram accounts out there are sending messages over the Internet's that we don't know. Yeah We've got steganography hidden messages all kind of cool stuff LED lights jump in the air gap Day for the for the summer of sharks and that's a look at the oh, I'm sorry All right, so this week Apple Attempted to convince creative professionals that they are still serious about them This this is extending their effort that started when they sat down with a limited number of reporters and said hey We haven't given up on the Mac Pro and I think it's fair to emphasize that Apple is not saying that the iMac Pro is the Mac Pro They still intend to come out with a Mac Pro But we'll start with you Scott and then I want to get Pete's Experience from actually being there and finding out Apple's side of the message Scott how did you feel as a creative professional they did in convincing you? so I got really excited when I saw the the sort of little video blip montage thing They showed as they were announcing it. I thought oh my gosh This is the new Mac Pro is my first thought was what that was and then it kind of settled in Oh, they're going like with a pro line of them of the of the desktop all-in-one. That makes sense I think that's a good idea. I'm with them the entire way the specs are amazing Everything sounds great. I'm waiting on pins and needles for a oh and it's a touchscreen that lets you draw on it with the Apple pencil Here you go artists and we finished the loop We've completed the ring and I thought oh, this would be the greatest thing ever Well, that didn't happen, but even then I was like all right. Well, I'm still here. I'm with you I've got a Mac Pro like the trash can style thing now I had a Mac Pro before that one is the great big Metal case so I'm in for these things and then they announced the starting price I don't want to say price starting price of 4,999 now if that included For me, I can't speak for everybody because there are going to be video editors out there who are jumping up and down for joy They're going to be all kinds of other applications for creative professionals that are stoked about what they're going to get with this But without a digitized screen that price isn't worth it for me not right now anyway and That means what would I do? Well? I'll just keep using my waycom or I'll maybe think about Apple's surface studio or all You say digitized screen explain what you mean I mean like a waycom like a digital drawing tablet style input something that supports touch Correct, and if it would have I mean I realized that for Apple to start supporting touch on their PCs They're talking about a complete a big change bigger than Microsoft had to make his Microsoft wasn't making PCs before the surface They came out with a product that the OS was ready for and and that's a better way to do that Apple's got a lot of legacy stuff to worry about. I understand that it's hard and I totally get it But at that price, it's very hard for me to justify it as a digital artist when I have to come up with a Secondary sort of screen option whether it's an existing waycom or any waycom type tablet or using an iPad Pro with a pencil as A remote or mirrored device Which is possible those things are all true, but it's just a little kluji that way and for that price I just can't justify it That's I mean I got my Mac Pro desktop for less than that and not that different on power And it's probably way more than you don't need a Zeon processor You you I mean it's it's nice to start it. What is it 18 gigs of RAM? But you know you don't necessarily have to have that like this is this is More than you need it's probably a good bargain for the price But it's it's beyond it's a workstation which is beyond what you need as a creative professional And maybe the the improvements we're seeing in the in the regular iMac line Shouldn't be discounted. They are they are a significant leap as well So that may be great for most everybody What I just really had hoped from them Was something that went further it said hey creative professionals not only not not only have we not forgotten about you But we're thinking about you in these new ways We want you to be able to draw and paint and do and this and that and the pencil is awesome It's amazing the the latency on that thing beats my waycom beats surface beat surface studio like not even those aren't even close to how Well that pencil behaves on my iPad Pro to give me a full desktop experience that I could fold down and use for 27 inch drawing space on a 4k device would be incredible and they I just feel like that was the one thing They would have done here that they didn't do that isn't to say won't get that one day doesn't mean that this is you know a Bad value even I mean you're getting a heck of a machine for that money, but there is a lot of hardware I could buy PC even on on the Mac side that would do most everything we need to get done without going too crazy So I just not not entirely sure which level of creative this is for this is probably for Huge company they hire for illustrators and we're investing in $15,000 worth of hardware for those guys And that's a company decision But this isn't so much a I make things and I do it on my own or I have a small company or as tiny business I don't think this is so much for us Right well, I mean so okay, so so have you played around with the Microsoft Surface Studio I have so so my my criticisms of that are actually there's some things I like about it I like that it's a big drawing tablet, but it's got terrible lag on the drawing stylus It does yet. It's the worst in the market. It's bad. Just straight up bad. They're even there's their surface Pro 2 had better Functionality than their current surface stuff including the studio that was probably because it was a waycom thing And they were working with them on that that's supposedly coming back around with the four but Outside of all of that. I was really disappointed in the lag and the overall performance was a little not great And if you add that added up the base price of this compared to a similarly packed Surface Pro Studio is only about $800 difference. I mean 800 bucks is a sizable amount of cash But but that's the main difference and you're not getting as good a processor as good of Potentially as good a video card performance and that sort of thing with the surface Pro but to answer your question Yes, I've used surface studio. I walked away wishing it was more and felt like that wasn't worth the money because they weren't It's funny. I want a combination of these guys. I want that that Apple iMac Pro looks like I want that thing Inside and out and then I want the drawing capability on the surface studio, and then I'm the happiest guy in the world Yeah, yeah, and I honestly don't know what the surface studio Who who it is eventually aimed at because yeah, like I do feel that I brought in a bunch of Engineers and artists because I work at a university I kind of outsource my review and got a whole bunch of these Very high-end people to come in and see if they could work on the surface studio and see what their thoughts were and yeah Everyone kind of walked away with that same impression. It's gorgeous to look at they really loved it They loved the hinge and how it all worked But it ran Photoshop quite slow I mean if you look at the way they describe the the hybrid drive as rapid hybrid hybrid drive It's not really true. It's it's a very slow laptop drive in there Unfortunately, and that seems to be I mean, you know, and that's an easy thing to replace to be fair So you could actually you know put in a decent SSD and get better speed because it seemed to be the IO That was the the main thing that was slowing that that studio down But I don't know I mean like I first of all I think to your point about the Mac Pro I Yeah, I I cut 4k video every week I don't feel I need the Mac the iMac Pro either like it's it feels like a much much more powerful machine that I Would ever kind of get the the the decent use out of especially for 4,999, I mean, that's that's gonna be Probably seven and a half grand in Australia I would say but again to be fair to Apple They're the numbers did stack up when when you did compare the internals that they were talking about of the iMac Pro to You know something like a HP workstation one of the you know the the similar specs Intel Xeon workstations that you can get from them Ace in our chat room did some math and said I could do it on my own if I did all the work myself and you know Got the parts and everything I could do it for $3,874 which sounds about right When you're paying you're paying for the convenience of having Apple have designed and assembled it for you And then a little bit of the Apple tax for it being the Apple II magic Well, does that include a 5k monitor though? Because I'm good question Yeah, you're gonna pay 2800 for a 5k monitor just to begin with so yeah, that is absolutely true And that's that's the one thing I wanted to mention here I don't think that they this isn't one of those cases where I go Apple's so overpriced on everything That's not how this is not the problem same with the trash can power or Mac Pro when it came out It wasn't an issue so much that that we felt like we they were having high margins and screwing everybody over and getting You know make for grand on the thing. It's just that Does it have the stuff I need or not? It has things you don't need right? Way more I said 1832 gigs of RAM, right that that's nice But it's not like you have to have that right now to do what you're doing Arguably though. You're like, okay great. I'll take 32. Do you need a Zeon processor though? Like there's there's stuff in here that is really workstation oriented that isn't necessary for you Scott I would think is that right? I think that that's fair to say although I mean I always try to go a little over when I invest like when I bought the Mac Pro this most recent one The idea was that it was gonna last me for a while and I wanted to have it be a little OP And so I look at this in the same way I guess if this thing if this thing was like 3999 it'd feel like a steal could given what's under the hood But I'm still not sure it's me who should get it like I whatever their Mac Pro is and there's all these rumors about it being The next iteration being much more modular kind of going back to the idea of you know The way they used to be more configurable or user customizable if that's true My clock says wait for that and at least see what that is before I consider an iMac Pro And this is base product There's other stuff I want on this thing that aren't including this base price even though it's pretty pretty beefy in the base, but you know But even the spec'd out Non-pro iMac is a very very good machine like I was I was trying to break it as much as possible over the last couple of days before I wrote the review and it it handled Incredible a task that I threw at it So, you know the the the one that they they talked about was the fact that you can do 4k like four or five Streams of 4k at the same time in in funnel cut and that actually worked like that that was not just you know PR and so, you know, it's a very very powerful machine I get what you're saying though as the one thing that You know when you look at that surface studio that is so impressive is the idea of drawing on that gigantic canvas So and I kind of feel that right now what Apple are missing somewhere in their workflow first of all Yeah, of course, it's kind of a bit of a pain that you You have to buy two devices to pull that off that same kind of idea off in in the Apple side of things You have to buy an iPad Pro and then you also have to buy the the whatever computer You did you decide to go with but I don't feel that there's a good enough workflow between those two devices and and you know when I was watching the keynote and I think it was if serif labs Let me get the name right That's right. I think it was serif. Yeah. Yeah, and they showed off affinity photo Which watching that demo and I got to play with with the software a little bit later That software is what? Photoshop on the iPad should be like it's it's incredible that Adobe Don't have a really great workflow that you could draw on one of those beautiful, you know 12 inch or 10.5 inch iPads and then just know that it's sinking back to your real photoshop Later if you wanted to do kind of extra work on that big screen They do have that as a thing like they have apps on the iPad right now use an iPad Pro and I have the pencil and I love it It's great, but The workflow isn't so much that Adobe doesn't have good connectivity because the truth is I can with my CC account I can basically start something in their draw or their paint app Draw being equivalent in the drawing ones the you know the photoshop equivalent I can start work on that layers and everything and then I can say okay Then I can say send a photoshop and on my desktop bloop open photoshop, and there's the document Now that's awesome that I like the problem is their app on the their apps on the iPad are Terribly Not good. They're not good. They're just straight up not they're not photoshop. They're not full-blown illustrator They're not full versions of their applications. They're these small watered-down weird Kind of half usable not that great apps the best apps are these weird independent ones like procreate I love that thing. Thankfully it converts to psd, but I got to do this weird dropbox dance with it So yeah, so it's the frustration from an artist standpoint, and there are a lot of us out there working on this every comic book You read every illustration you see every billboard that goes up somebody's using probably an industry standard waycom tablet to do it on and The idea that that Apple could get back in the creative game so strong and offer a Touchscreen with you know pens even if it didn't have my fingers capable Just letting the pencil communicate with it with its levels of you know pressure sensitivity and all of that Would have been a huge boon to this and then suddenly it's worth that price because if you're going another route Let's say let's say you spend 1500 on a well deck PC or Mac You've still got to go spend two grand or more on On you know a professional level waycom More than that money anyway if they would have combined these in this case No, brainer. It would absolutely be the next thing I would have to invest in for my business Yeah, but I can kind of see that they want a screen that for their iMac especially a screen that It's gonna look the best for the majority of the users that they have and I would I would I mean I don't know how many people are using Wacom's with iMacs right now. I'm sure you know everyone who does anything like what you do in a day job for sure but You know, maybe their breakdown their internal breakdowns show that you know, it's it's designers Who who aren't using a wake on or or video editors or whatever? They did seem to be once again a bit of a massive push against the how well it does with video, so Maybe that's that's what they're targeting here I and I don't know whether if they digitize that screen that gigantic screen first of all how much more expensive would that screen become and Would they see that you know some of the? Well, I also just don't think they want to reinvent OS Mac OS at right now to be touch capable So I think that's actually the biggest holdup here is you've got two different operating systems and Apple does not feel It's worth messing with Mac OS to put touch Capability into it. It may be a simple like I was saying earlier. It may be as simple as Adobe and other Leaders in the space. I mean, they're the biggest They should be all out ahead of this thing and if we're if we're really gonna invest in a platform Maybe they're not as confident as Apple is but if they really believe that the future is there I I need those commercial grade quality applications to run the way they do on my Desktop in the same way they run on my on my tablets or portable devices And I know it can be done Procreate is the best version of Photoshop that is in Photoshop for me on a portable device I know they can give me the tools the brushes the the nuance that everything I need I just don't know why they're not doing it So we this would be a very different conversation then and and there are also apps This should be mentioned for those out there who may be hunting around for something as a solution There's an app and I forgot the name I wish I'd had it here darn it, but it lets me via Wi-Fi or a dongle through USB mirror my iPad Pro with the with my Mac and it lets me use it as a Essentially becomes a waycom so you can bring up real Photoshop in there and use it as if it's Photoshop And there's really no noticeable latency or lag or issues It's very very impressive, but it costs another I think it's 750 a month or some monthly charge Right, right, but anyway for professionals that may be okay But you understand what I mean by it being kluji if you say here's the Microsoft's all things being equal Let's say both hardware platforms were equal and he said well Here's the surface studio and here's the iMac Pro and they've got all the same specs I know this isn't true, but they have all the same specs But one you can draw on and the other one is just real good at video stuff But you'll have to plug extra stuff into it to draw and you're gonna go for the one you can draw on For artists and creatives even if you're not an artist You still need a place to sketch out ideas and annotate stuff and rotate 3d models and like I I don't know It just feels like they're behind the curve on that Yeah, but I so if if the rumor that was around just before dub dub DC was that they would give you the ability Natively to to use the iPad with an iMac would that be enough? I'm just trying to think if they're because it does really like what is the size of the gap here There's slots that Apple's still trying to fill back in okay So there's so what you just said there is definitely a step in the right direction if they gave me a native way And a lot of what I owe iOS 11 looks like they're doing Especially in the way of tablets is gonna go a long way like file management some other stuff's gonna help But if they made it so there was sort of a built-in way Because I'm in it kind of like AirDrop or something because you're in the ecosystem You're now easily connecting those two devices and it's now acting as you're drawing tablet That's great, but you're also now telling me I have to limit myself to seven or twelve point five inches rather than my customary 24 inches or my 27 inches or whatever the waycom is that you've happened to buy So you are making a concession again for size that may be a small one. I'd be willing to make but You see what I mean like there's no and everyone's gonna have a different perfect scenario I totally understand that but the perfect scenario for me is that monster with a Tablet-enabled pen touchscreen. Oh my gosh By some day some day sky pre-order it. I would Hey, I want to thank everybody who participates in our subreddit helps us put together the topics the stories that we talk about every day You can submit stories and vote on yourself at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com Before we get out of here real quickly a couple of messages in our slack Andrew was talking about Plex and said hey I know it's not necessarily some people are saying it's not the babysitter friendly But it works pretty well for my wife babysitter dog serat and grandparents When the babysitter comes over all I have to say is Tivo is input one movies or input two as a test I always leave the Tivo on when I leave and when I get home 75% of the time the person to switch the input and is watching a Movie on Plex. This is also easy enough for my four-year-old to do the reason this works is a hundred percent related to the Shield TV and other set top boxes two years ago when I was using a computer no one knew how to use it except me Hmm I love Plex. I love Plex to death and I totally agree with this It is so easy to set up in fact. Well, it's not easy to set up. That's a lie I've set it up for other people But once it is set up and ready to go so I've set it up at my sister's house my mom's house And now they just use either the Chromecast or the Apple TV to go to that nice friendly Plex icon And that's all of their movies and TV and they love it. So it's yes. I love Plex to death Well, that's it for this show Thank you again, Peter Wells for taking the time to join us. I hope this was more relaxing than the rest This was so lovely. Yeah, nice way to end the week. Thank you if people want to follow what you're doing. Where should they go? Just to Twitter and Peter Wells on the Twitter's Twitter.com slash Peter Wells will do mr. Scott Johnson What about yourself? Well, people want to see some of the work produced by currently a way calm Maybe one day in the future something else they can follow me at on twitch actually where I do a lot of this stuff live You can find that over at twitch.tv slash frog pants And you can find the results of said art at frog pants calm And I'm looking forward to seeing all of your listeners who are coming to Nerdtacular in less than three weeks And of course you as well Tom. Yeah, if you want to know the details We've got a special panel special guests coming up all that sort of thing You've just got to support us on patreon patreon.com slash DTNS. We'll get you a subscription at merely a dollar a month to a monthly update and Also get you an exclusive RSS feed, you know before the show We were talking about mystery flights and opal mines and all kinds of stuff And if you want to hear what we were talking about you get a special RSS feed at patreon.com slash DTNS Our email address is feedback daily tech news show calm We're live Monday through Friday for 30 p.m. Eastern 20 30 utc If you want to jump to the chat room at diamond club TV or listen to us on alpha geek radio calm We also have a Facebook page Facebook comm slash daily tech news show and our website is of course daily tech news show calm back Tomorrow with the summer of sharks and Justin Robert young talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network get more at frog pants calm Man that was great you guys we packed in a lot of discussion there. Yeah, I was hoping I was worried we were gonna go long I hope we didn't go too long didn't it When we were talking I'm like, oh, we've got such a substantive discussion and then we're actually under the 40 Maybe a little longer than the 35. I've been hitting lately, but yeah. Oh, that was great It's so weird to see me on the side of I'm Microsoft. I'm usually on the critical. I'm on the critical end of something else not Apple I really like Apple products. I use them for so much stuff and I don't know They were singing my song yesterday, but they didn't have the last verse to that song. That's all Yeah, I mean, I don't give me wrong man I can totally get that the idea of Actually, you know that disconnect between using a wake up So you're not actually drawing directly on the screen that must also kind of mess with your head in some way Not that I do it myself But yeah, is that a disconnect as well that that kind of screws up the workflow a bit Well, are you just so used to it now? Well, I mean drawing on That's funny because when I use so this this wake on which is a screen. That's a big 24 inch, whatever screen It's you get so used to drawing on it but the biggest thing you get used to is you get used to being able to hit command Z when you screwed up or Pinch and zoom or whatever when you need to get close to something and then someone will hand me illustration board or a canvas or a poster or something and I'm working in traditional pens and inks and stuff and I'll my brain will try to do those things Oh, I don't like that line and I'll my my head will tell me to command Z it and I can't It's the weirdest thing or make a layer and work underneath a layer or something Like I'm trained. I'm trained for this stuff so bad now that my all my old techniques are suffered a little bit I think but It's very strange, but for me. I mean, I don't know I Just think if they look what you said earlier and what you didn't get a chance to talk about too much what you said earlier about Them making it so natively an iPad Pro could just your Mac would see it and now suddenly it's sharing or something Yeah, then we're kind of done with the with the whole thing like I'm gonna do something really creative Hopefully that'll work and they're tacky or I'm gonna put an Apple TV HDMI it to the overhead projection system in the in the in the hall there What we're doing that stuff in the in the main ballroom and I'm gonna draw on an iPad Pro that will be Miring to that to the Apple TV and then showing this up on the thing So we're gonna do a live drawing session where they'll get to see real-time me working on this thing without any weird wires Or anything it'll literally be Wi-Fi to Apple TV to projector And if I'm to go back in time and look at my options, you know five six years ago This is we're living in freakin fantastic land right now Yeah, yeah, right. It's incredible So I part of me is like a little picky and I shouldn't be because this stuff's amazing no matter where I'm doing it Hmm, but no, I totally I mean for the people I've spoken to that do the same kind of stuff You do it does feel like that there's a kind of disconnect on the Apple side of things and a I don't know screwing up the landing on the Microsoft side of things that neither side has gotten it Right just yet and and they're still kind of in that race to see who will get it first. I really do think that yeah Well my first of all my my conspiracy theory is Sarah Flabs was up there yesterday to shame Adobe Hopefully this is not I mean even if that's not not intentional. It certainly did yeah fella used to see in Adobe in that slot Yeah, exactly And so I wouldn't be surprised if they're there for the September launch of iOS 11 when it's they've got more time to actually Talk about it and hopefully then they can bring it up because they always bring up Microsoft in Adobe these days Just to show, you know how they've got now you can do real work on these these iPads So and in Adobe's you know to their credit. It's possible that they Don't a hundred percent think that they're they may have marketing or numbers that show a huge uptick in PC Adoption of their services. So if they're seeing that and they're seeing a drop on the Apple and Mac side and the iOS thing never really completely took off for them They may not be that motivated to give me a full-blown Photoshop experience on on iOS I don't know. Yeah, but that's the chicken and egg thing, you know, like you who's gonna use iOS the Adobe apps on iOS if the Adobe apps are that great. Yeah, that's a totally Absolutely val away to look at it. I don't know like I love them. I love CC. It's my favorite service I pay for But I sometimes just I sometimes just get real anxious about what's about to get pulled out from under me if you could just give me the guts of that iMac with the capabilities but Hope the honed capabilities of the studio surface. Hmm. Oh my gosh. Let's see. It's not even an option. I can't combine them It's like there's not it's it's never gonna be a thing unless Apple says well Yeah, we'll also make this a touch screen, but I'm but I'm more and more everybody seems to be in agreement that Apple may never make it Mac OS a touchable thing Hmm. I don't know Do you think they ever be forced to do that because it just seems crazy if they haven't done it by now Will they ever well? I wonder like what is it with the studio because you certainly aren't gonna be drawing gorilla arm, right? Is it just like you see yourself laying it flat all the time? It would be flat 90% of the time for me Yeah, I mean That's just cuz I'm always drawing on it But then again, I mean I do like this I'm looking at you guys and I've got a screen right here where I'm doing all my other kind of production and then right over here to the right is this waycom and I'm kind of used to having I mean if I mean you could get an iMac Pro and put a walk-up tablet on It. Oh, which is what I do. I mean Like this one's not changing what your workflow now. So yeah, and this one's already you can see it's already kind of space gray, so Totally don't eat the I'm a pro man. I swear to God that that I think you're right high-end I'm act that that They gave us was was pretty damn good And that wasn't even the fully spec'd out model and it's still pretty damn impressive and the fully spec'd out one is going to be So crazy expensive. I've dealt with so very many of them Enterprises maybe yeah, yeah, but even an enterprise. Why would you buy it? I mean that makes no sense You mean the pro or the the top spec I Mac. Oh, no the top spec pro The pro you would be is similar to any workstation like a Dell or anything else So the companies just buy them in bulk because they're like we need a bunch of workstations. Maybe maybe I Know one area where we will buy them tomorrow if they were on sale out like at our uni We've got a VR lab and the whole thing is just set up again I should really not be saying this but the whole thing is set up to kind of like impress VSTs and stuff as they walk by and they would love to have shiny iMacs in there instead of like pouring kind of Dells under the disks But you the thing is like you're you can stagger your upgrades With with a commoditized PC even if I had this exact right because you could I mean it's just you would be cheaper that way Yeah, yeah, I'm so sorry. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm just I'm really having a hard time trying to see a market for The Mac pro the iMac pro is for the enterprise market. I guarantee that's like that's where they But that doesn't make any sense because you would not be able to do your legacy You would need to you would need to buy a whole new level or a whole new grouping of Items that you couldn't just buy in bulk like hard drives Oh, we can just you know, we can get ourselves like, you know a bundle of 100 hard drives that we we would go through over a course of the year The iMac pro I doubt would have that same level of ease or That's why I feel like the iMac pros actually aimed at me I'm the one they want to get it. They just want me to spend too much money on it Whereas the Mac pros if they're truly modular We don't know any of this till they come out But if they're modular and upgradeable and kind of back to that thinking then that's a much better Enterprise solution. So so for me, it's like they they want me the the entrepreneur single running dude to have the This monster machine that that doesn't have much in the way of upgrade paths Because it's just simple easy set it up and go and they want the other stuff for for Corporate, but the corporate stuff might be cheaper because you can you don't have to Go for the max bottom level configuration and you don't have to have a screen like that if you don't want her my suspicion is When ibm comes in and consults and says here's the here's the here's the thing you need That'll be a bunch of macbook pros iMac workstations and and some other server Oriented stuff that's not coming from apple But ibm's doing a bunch of apple enterprise rollouts for people now and that's where the they're just going to be like Hey, we've got the entire package. This is everything you need Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean You know our enterprise, you know the way we we purchase as an enterprise customer is Every every user gets a computer for three years and it gets replaced every three years and we never You know upgrade the internals on any of those and there's going to be a system That's going to be saying exactly what roger was just saying which is this doesn't make sense. Why are we doing this? Yeah, yeah, no, no, no that that I understand. I work with him. I know I know the guy I can tell you his name Yeah, but see what then you would need them you would need an iMac pro you would just buy them an iMac You do you see if no, I could I could imagine if you had a a floor full of ios devs You know banging out some really important Facebook are going to buy a bunch of iMac pros. First of all to to Impress the the silicon belly talent that they're trying to to get to work for them And also just to make you know a cool looking lab A cool looking space you could do that much cheaper with a bunch of top spec iMacs Right if there's is there anything embossed on the side of the iMac pro that says I dropped way too much money for this computer Yeah, it's space gray. You can't get space gray in a regular iMac. So Some applications you need a zeon for there there are Yeah, definitely xserve can take can take advantage of all 18 cores. So it'll go you know and so Maybe I mean like when back in revision three we finally ditched all the the the mac stuff because It was it was to the point where um The level of support that apple was providing wasn't wasn't there to be enterprise level and so we essentially went Right, which is why apple started signing those contracts with companies like ibm because then that support comes through them We'll see I don't i'm not I doubt they'll have the I doubt they'll have that big of an impact and that yeah, I would I'm gonna say this too I don't think the I don't think the surface pro or this excuse me the surface Studio is priced that well either for its specs. It's kind of overpriced for what it is It's kind of the same it's a laptop built on a lamp arm exactly and so I don't even know and I'm still not sure I'd love to know numbers on that How many of those have they sold because they don't are you know that that's a brand new product Kind of out of nowhere for microsoft I don't know how many of those got pushed What's interesting though is there is a definite shift From kind of the commoditized pc beige box where You could request whatever you want in it, you know, whatever specs to something. That's a lot more Screwed down that you can't upgrade easily, but uh on the flip side offers you a lot more uh a user friendly I think interface Than you would have otherwise. I don't know it's it'll be interesting to see Long term how this works out Because like, you know like you were saying like Would you need iMac iMac pro? You know running xserve would be great, but do you really need would you really want that sitting in your in your rack unit? Oh, yeah, it's right there on the iMac pro sitting Did I say except I meant the uh the coding one what the hell is it called? Xcode xcode, yes, of course Anyway