 There. And now I'm opening the webinar and we are officially live. I should have shared my screen first. Can you all see my screen? I can see, yeah. Perfectly. Perfect, I mean. Hi friends. The third screen says SFPL. Do you see the slide of you? Yeah. One panel. And you and SFPL in black and white. Okay, I'm going to stop my share just to make sure I'm doing all right. Hello folks, we see you. We're going to let the room fill up and I am going to share my screen again just to ensure I got it right. All right, I got it right this time. All right, welcome, welcome. We'll get started right about now. We appreciate you being here tonight for sure. And I cannot believe it. But this is our last summer stride final program. We have had an author talk every single Tuesday, June, July and August. You have joined us for summer stride. Thank you so much for being here. And it's not over yet. You can still do your 20 hours reading and collect your prize up until about mid September. And it will have, you can get that iconic tote bag with that beautiful artwork you see there with the artwork by Kalani Juanita. So without to our friends of the San Francisco Public Library for sponsoring and hosting all of us and helping us support in doing what we do. Thank you friends. San Francisco Public Library acknowledges that we occupy the unseated ancestral homeland of the raw mutish alone peoples, who are the original inhabitants of the San Francisco peninsula. We recognize that the raw mutish alone understand the interconnectedness of all things, and have maintained harmony with nature for millennia. We honor the raw mutish alone peoples for their enduring commitment to war rep mother earth as the indigenous protectors of this land. In accordance with their traditions, the raw mutish alone have never seated lost nor forgotten their responsibilities as caretakers of this place, as well as for all the people who reside in their traditional territory. We recognize that we benefit from living and working on their traditional homeland. As invited guests, we affirm their sovereign rights as first peoples, and wish to pay our respects to the ancestors, elders and relatives of the raw mutish community. We recognize to respectfully honor the raw mutish peoples we must embrace and collaborate meaningfully to record indigenous knowledge in how we care for San Francisco and all its people. We'll put a chat link into the chat box there of some great resources on indigenous and land rights. Right after summer stride we're sliding right into our Viva Latinx heritage months months, they span September and October. And we have lots of authors, lots of poets, and we're looking really forward to that so check it out SFPL.org slash events. And we have some reading campaigns at the library on the same page is our long standing bi-monthly read where we encourage you all to read the same book at the same time. And so September, October we are reading the undocumented Americans by Carla Cornejo Villavan-Sincio, and she will be we'll have a book club on October 25. The very next day, this 26 Carla will be in conversation with Jonathan Blitzer. So come by for that. And these are all still in the virtual. And then we've partnered with San Francisco Chronicles total SF team for a total SF book club, which features the author and for November 17th and you'll notice that says in the correct auditorium, a live event, we're doing it. So it's a nice big space. Come join us. We'll be able to spread out. And we'll be having Bonnie Sweet and her book, Why We Swim. So come by for all of these amazing events. And tonight for our final author, we are so happy to have John Blander join us. And he will be showing his amazing photos from the Shikoku pilgrimage trail. John Landers, a photographer based near Kamakura, Japan, with a passion for Japanese gardens, subtropical beaches and hot springs. John's photos have been published by GEO National Geographic Lonely Planet, Rough Guides, Vogue L Forbes, Men's Journal, and many more. All right, let's turn it over and give a warm welcome to John Lander. John, it's all yours to share the screen. Hi. Welcome everyone. Thanks for the lovely introduction. I've been a resident of Japan for about 20 years in Tokyo and the rest of the time near Kamakura on the coast. I consider myself a San Francisco and I went to San Francisco State and I live there many years before moving to Japan, but I haven't been back for quite some time because of obvious reasons. So I'm going to kick right into the slideshow and talk about the Shikoku pilgrimage and introduce what it's all about. We're getting into the temples and what not. So I need to share the screen. We are seeing your desktop, John. All right, so let me put it in full slideshow mode. How's that? There it is. I can make it full. How's that? Yay, we're cooking. I can't get rid of something. Great, John. Okay, the Shikoku pilgrimage. Does that look okay? Looking great. Okay, Shikoku pilgrimage, Japan's sacred tale. It's in print and it's being sent around the world, but there's a worldwide shipping slowdown. And Amazon and other bookstore say that it will be available from September 30th. So that's the latest. The author page at the bottom of the screen. And it should be on there. You may have to scroll through my other books and publications, but it should be on there. But if you go into it and click on it, it's in pre-order mode right now on Amazon. The Shikoku pilgrimage. Shikoku is one of the four main islands of Japan, but probably the least developed because it's, it's up until recently, it wasn't even connected to the main islands of Japan. So it's slow and relaxed and friendly. And that's just the main reason why I like it. I first fell in love with Shikoku because there's a famous, in fact, they say that it's one of the best travel stories were ever written. It's called The Inland Sea by Donald Ritchie. He just gets sick of living in an urban jungle and he hops on a train and ferry boats and takes all these little ferry boats around the Inland Sea, which connects Shikoku to this is before they built these big concrete bridges connecting it with the main island of Japan. That was my first experience down in Shikoku. I wasn't even aware of the Shikoku trail or the Shikoku pilgrimage at that time. I just like Shikoku because people are slow and friendly and they take lots of naps. So, let me get into it. The Shikoku pilgrimage is a trail that goes all around the periphery of the island of Shikoku. It takes about, if a person does it on foot, which is the classic method, it takes about six weeks to do it. Some people a little less, some people a little more. And usually there's lots of different kinds of motivations for doing it. In my case it was basically just to, for the sake of photographing it and experiencing it. But I did enjoy doing most of it. But I didn't do it on foot. First of all, I'm almost 70 so and heavy camera equipment makes it very difficult to move around. On foot, on bicycles, buses, taxis, friends, cars, hitchhiking, you name it, any way to get from A to B. And I managed to finish all 88 temples just last year. I'll talk about people's different motivations for doing it at a later time. Because that's kind of important. Kobodashi, the person on the left, is a renowned monk in Japan, and he's kind of given credit for most of the temples. He was born in Shikoku and he established a lot of the temples. He's kind of a mythical character in Japan. He set up lots of main temples in Nara and Kyoto and Shikoku as well. And made it possible for poorer people and working class people to learn how to read and write. So he's sort of considered some sort of hero in Japan. But amongst the pilgrims he's the main guy. The one on the right is Gyouki who had a similar background. He predates Kobodashi, but he doesn't get so much credit for the trails, even though he established a lot of the temples on it. And he's also a very venerable character in Japanese history, but Kobodashi is extremely famous in Japan, the one on the left. And people on their little pilgrim vest, it says written in Japanese, I walk with Kobodashi. It's pretty much devoted, the whole trails devoted to walking with Kobodashi. For me personally, one of the most moving parts of the whole trail is the concept of Osatai. And in Japan, Osatai means basically just charitable giving or simply hospitality. And community groups all around Shikoku will set up. Sometimes people will approach you and just hand you some cash or people will rush up to you and give you a bottle of water. Or communities will set up coffee stands and snacks or people will leave orange, a little bag of oranges and pilgrims huts, resting huts. You can take it or not take it, just to help keep you going. It's basically to help keep pilgrims moving. It's an extremely beautiful custom. I found it very heartening in today's cultural world to find that there's people who are basically just showing kindness. There's quite a little writing about this in the introduction to my book, not written by me, but I go to a Japanese nun who's one of the main figures of the Shikoku pilgrimage. She's one of the official guide people and I got her to talk about it as much as I could get out of her. She wanted to just dismiss it as a little, it just means kindness. It's more than that, I feel. And it's one of the things that most foreign pilgrims who do this are most moved by. It's a lovely custom of just showing hospitality and giving people things, giving you a ride or giving you a coffee or a free bottle of water or sometimes even a place to stay overnight. It's, it's called Usa Tai and I have a whole chapter on it. Inro Hats, these are a little bit controversial because sometimes this one's in a very rural area, but sometimes they're in a populated neighborhood and basically they're meant just to take a rest or have a little short nap or something like that to rest, cool your heels for a while. They're not really meant to be camped out in or slipped in, but sometimes people do. So it's a little bit controversial, especially in a populated area. So it's best to be careful of that. But this, this is one of the more magnificent ones I felt out in the middle of the countryside. The trails are pretty well marked, but they're marked always in Japanese. So usually people will pair up with other Japanese pilgrims and they can help show you the way, but it's pretty self-explanatory, which is the way to go. And it's, it's pretty well marked. Sometimes these things are community efforts, local school kids put them up or local communities, community organizations put them up to as a kind of an Usa Tai hospitality thing. It's, okay, the henrose themselves or henrose, what the Japanese word for pilgrim, and they come in all shapes, sizes and ages and motivations. Most of them, of course, are Japanese. There are a few foreigners, maybe not so many nowadays because it's very difficult to enter Japan without a 14-day quarantine, but they're around. And last year was, it was very tricky to get all the photos I needed of the situation because there weren't many pilgrims around. I had friends with a few of them online and I did go down there to finish off a photo set. So I was able to interview them. So I interviewed five or six different people, two Japanese, three Japanese and two foreigners. The woman on the left, she's a city office worker who lives in Chikoku and she does a bit by bit. The American guy on the right, he also lives down there and he's been doing it for years. It's one of his main hobbies is going off on the pilgrimage every few weeks every year. A lot of people don't do it all in one six-week thing. First of all, it's really tiresome to walk for six weeks and day after day after day. It's very tough on your feet and your knees, especially. I met a lot of people who had trouble. They had to give up or start using taxis or buses because they just couldn't walk anymore. A lot of people do it in bits and pieces like me. I've been there about eight times over the course of five or six years and doing a little bit here and then coming back home, going back to work or doing whatever you have to do. People go back to their family, especially people who live in Japan. And then they come back and do another bit in the spring or the fall, which are the best times to do it. But it's fairly rare, I think, except if you're really, really fit to be able to do it all in one go in six weeks. People have widely different reasons or motivations for doing this. Sometimes it's to kind of get over a traumatic divorce or a life event or change of job or change of school or just a change or someone retires and they want to sort of sort things out. So they think that, like in my case, they think that walking around Chicago or moving around the countryside and talking to strangers and meeting new people and making new friends is a good way to start a new chapter in their life. That may be one of the main motivators to do this, but I sense that some other people had deeper reasons like their partner died recently or something like that, you know, or their mother died. The woman on the left here, her mother died recently and that was part of her motivation I sensed a little bit. Anyway, lots of different motivations and of course there's a lot of sort of outdoorsy hiker types who just do it for the outdoorsyness of it all. And that that type exists as well. People, you can stay in Chicago, which are the temple lodgings. And this is a particularly nice one. Usually they're a little shabbier than this. Basically you just get a futon and a tatami room and it may or may not be private and it may have to be shared with other people and meals will be shared or usually if they don't provide meals you have to go out to a convenience store and get a lunchbox or something like that. It's, it's a lot of fun. Unfortunately, a lot of them are closed at the moment because of COVID but there are, there are places to stay that, you know, commercial places that cater to pilgrims and offer discounted rates. Back to the Shojin Jury. This is a vegetarian temple cuisine if you're lucky enough to find a temple that's still open that has temple lodging. It's one of the priorities of Buddhist temple cuisine. It's all vegetarian and very healthy and light and beautiful. It's a little bit rare in Chicago, though, and the main, the main place to try this is the very end of the trail, which is a Goyas on where all the temple lodgings have, have this, and lots of places in Kyoto have it as well. I went to one of the people I interviewed. She went all the way around Chikoku and then took the ferry boat on to Goyasang and then on to Nara and Kyoto. Nara goods, okay. A lot of people don't wear the full drag. They just, just wear the jacket, the vest. It says I walk with, with Kogodashi here. Even I have one. This is mine actually. But most people only wear the, the vest. They don't wear the hat or the sash or, or all the other goods. Some people do, but most generally most people just wear the, the vest and they even have T-shirt versions of it. But it's a good thing to wear, even if you're not a very serious Henro or to pilgrim because it identifies you as a pilgrim to other people. You know, if somebody wants to help you along the way or give, give out a bottle of water or something, or, or if you need directions or help in any way, it's extremely helpful to have your vest on because if not, people will just ignore you. So that's, that's what the vest and the, the Henro hat and the sash look like. They all have particular meanings, but I don't have time to go into all that. It's all in the book. There are, there are certain procedures that a person does when going to each temple. Serious pilgrims will do all of it, you know, in succession. For example, I had to write it down because I was so busy with the photography that I, I had to confess that I didn't do the full ritual, but basically where are we? At each temple's main gate, you bow once facing the temple. And then there's a wash basin. I think there's a picture of it. Maybe not a wash basin where you wash your hands and mouth. And then you ring the bell at the bell tower once. Name slips. Here you write in, you can, one of these is filled out with my name. You fill it out with your name, address, date, and write down a wish. I forgot what my wish was. And you leave them in a main, main, main temple's box. And also people give them, give them to people who give you also time, people who give you help along the way, like a room to stay in or a ride or a bottle of water or even cash. It's good manners to give one of these names that pieces of paper to these people to, it's just like a name card. What else? And then I didn't. Oh, yeah. The man on the right with calligraphy. This is the final step before exiting the temple. People carry these books around with them and have the temple stamp and they're all sealed and calligraphy done. It's 300 yen per per shot, you know, and actually it makes a very beautiful memento of the whole trip. So most people do this, even that, even though you have to pay for it. And then finally, once, once all these rituals are over with people go to the main gate and then go one time and then turn around and then go on their merry way. Okay. I separated the book into four different sections because 88 temples could be very tedious. And some of them are highlighted with double page spreads, you know, especially temples with fabulous gardens or some architectural feature, which I wanted to feature but mostly we wanted to break it up with different things in the middle of the book, sort of punctuation here and there. So this is the introduction to Tokushima Prefecture, which is the first county or prefecture. There's four of them. This is the first one on the trail. It has the one, the picture on the left is a picture of kind of a scarecrow village and it's practically an abandoned ghost town, but the people who are left decided to make an attraction and they made these dolls of so-called scarecrow and with different faces and clothing, you know, it's a kind of attraction. It's really in the middle of nowhere, but it's quite interesting place. And the right hand picture is of Bon Odori dance, which is faint, originated in Tokushima. And Tokushima is the main city and the first prefecture on the trail. And it has a very distinctive dance and hats and clothing. But this dance is so popular and common that it spread all over Japan. It's a summer ritual everywhere in Japan. Unfortunately, the big Bon Odori dance in Tokushima has been canceled the last couple of years, I think, or curtailed down to locals without people pouring in. But Tokushima is the first stop on the trail with temple number one. This is temple number one where it has an ice garden and particularly nice interior with lanterns. Ryuzenji, I believe. Yeah, Ryuzenji. Further along the trail is Konsenji, which has a famous spring and to me this is kind of a pond garden. You'll notice that the ones that I'm highlighting tend to have Japanese gardens in them or some architectural feature, which appeals to me. A lot of the temples are nothing but, you know, they may have a historical significance, but they're not particularly graphically beautiful. So I tend to make a special effort on the ones that have a garden. This one's Konsenji, also at Tokushima. Jizoji. This has a particular interesting hall. In fact, this temple has a nickname. I forgot the name of the nickname because it has all these rakenji. This is a nickname. It has a lot of raken, which are Buddhist disciples. This is a big hall of these disciples in it, which is fairly evocative. And then Shoshanji, it's really hard to get to. And then Byodoji. I quite like the fresco and the ceiling here. Back to Shoshanji briefly. What I noticed is the more difficult to access of these temples, the more evocative and beautiful and memorable they seem to be the more difficult to approach, the more worth it they tend to be. So that kind of helps keep you going for the last kilometer or two. If you're really flagging, it sort of helps to know that the more difficult to access, the more wonderful it's likely to be. Okay, now we're into Kochi Prefecture, which is the next prefecture. This is the Moroto Peninsula, sort of the very southern tip of, well, there's two different tips and Peninsula is the protrude into the Pacific Ocean south of Kochi Prefecture and they're very difficult to get to. But both of them are quite worth it. And this is the lighthouse to keep Moroto. Kochi's other one of its other main claims to fame is the name of it's Machino Botanical Garden in Kochi City. It's right next to. Right next to this, this temple and garden it's one of the more famous temples in Japan. Chikorinji, Chikorinji Temple and Garden, which is, it's right next door to Machino Botanical Garden. In fact, I think that they at one time, it was one giant compound. This was one of my very favorites, Konomineji. It's Temple 27. It's one of the most inaccessible I found, but it was one of the most well worth it. So I really enjoyed it except for the walk up there. This one's quite unusual because it has a pond with these. What's the name of it? Zanzibuji, with a Fudo fountain and pond. Another very inaccessible one. It's on its own tiny little island. But, I don't know. Shoryuji. Shoryuji is outside of Kochi City, but it's on its own little tiny island. It used to be fairly isolated. But now there's a bridge, but I rather locked it up there. And this is the other tip of the other extremely inaccessible peninsula. What was the name of it? Shoryuji is the name of the temple at the bottom of, I can't remember these things, Hachizuri Peninsula. Cape Hachizuri is kind of a bellwether for hurricanes in Taifu and Japan. The weather is really extreme down there, but it's extremely beautiful once you finally get there. There's three visits to the neighborhood to Kochi Prefecture until I finally got there. It's so difficult to get to. And where was Kochi? Sort of towards the end of Kochi Prefecture before entering into Aimee. Aimee Prefecture is famous for dogo onsen or hot springs. Matsuyama is famous for its onsen. And it's clunky little street cars and funky little town. It's one of the first places I ever went in Shikoku for a conference 20 years ago. But I was surprised that they still had these little slow street cars poking around town. But I sort of fell in love with Shikoku in Matsuyama because when I was taking the ferry boat back to Hiroshima, this is my little anecdote story on Shikoku, one of my first trips down there. Going back to the main island, they're taking the ferry boat to Hiroshima. When I got to the port town, the port part of Matsuyama early, and I decided to duck in for a bowl of noodles and I had an hour or two to wait before the ferry left. And when I went into the noodle shop, the entire staff, the cook, waitresses, a couple customers, they're all asleep. They're all laying down having a nap at one o'clock in the afternoon. I couldn't believe it. So people take naps down there. People are relaxed like it's Mexico or something. I kind of like these people. People in Tokyo would never dream of doing that. So I rather fell in love with Shikoku after that thing. These are my kind of people who like to take naps. So that's my Shikoku story. This is one of the most also difficult to reach there. But this is Iodange, Iowaji in Ehime prefecture. It's difficult to get to, but it's lovely, but hard to get to. I missed this one the first time around the neighborhood. It's near Iodange, Jororiji. Jororiji has a big lotus pond and I was lucky enough to catch a pilgrim who's admiring and photographing now the flowering blossoms. Iodange is an extremely important one in Monsayama city and it's a huge compound with all kinds of things. It's a major one of the temples and no matter how few temples a person goes to, this is one of the main ones to visit. This one has a particularly interesting mural inside of heaven and hell mural called Isanji. My gamiji I rather liked because it's out in the countryside and sort of it has a sort of Shinto shrine architecture. There's another difficult one to get to in Benji, but well worth the effort to get up there. Finally, the last prefecture is Kagawa and Kagawa seems to be to me the most developed of all the four prefectures in in Shikoku. It's Takamatsu is a fairly developed and sophisticated city and the offshore islands is all part of the inland sea, these little islands. This is not exactly an island, it's sticking out from I forgot the name of it. Anyway, one of the offshore islands from Takamatsu and there's lots of ferry boat. These islands are still quite populated and in fact they have a big art expo every couple of years out there, which has become a worldwide event. So they put up these art installations on these little islands to get people to visit and to help the local population keep their businesses going and to keep the urban flight down. But these islands are lovely and it's offshore from Kagawa prefecture and Tokushima. The main attraction in Tokushima itself is the garden. It's not one of the, there's three main gardens of Japan and Ritsurin is not one of the main three, but it's usually the number one people's choice, because it's it's magnificent. It's one of the best gardens in Japan actually. So it's a major attraction in Takamatsu, one of my favorites. Okay, Jinaen and Kanonji, which are these two temples, they share the same kompa, which is kind of interesting. This particular vertical garden is in the back of Jinaen and most people don't even notice it because they don't make a big deal out of it. It's just sort of hidden in the back and pretty much forgotten, even though it's it's well taken care of, but I didn't see a soul back there. It was great. And then across the four year, the courtyard in the same compound is this giant tree and the secondary temple number 69 Kanonji. The temple before that was the garden Jinaen 68 and 69 share the same compound. Another out of the way place is Iodachi. Lovely, lovely places. We will discuss your questions at the end so please be patient. And this is the birthplace of Kobodashi. So it's very important. And they have a huge temple accommodation facility with dining hall and everything. Lots of pilgrims stay there overnight. Even now, I think it's still open. It's a main temple because it's where Kobodashi himself was born. And then let's go to Choji. It's one of my favorites because of the magnificent pond garden with the irises. Shiromuneji is also unique with its sort of wall garden here on the on the right side of it. Shidoji. This is one of my favorites, but I know people who don't think much of it, but I think that they couldn't find the stone garden in the back of the temple, which also they don't highlight it. It's as if it's not a big deal or something, but we spent hours here because that's where the hospitality Iodachi situation was going on with free coffee and free snacks and mineral water and the whole community turned out to welcome us. So we spent quite a lot of time there just and the garden was a big bonus plus there. And this would be Okuboji, which is this is the last temple on the 88 temple tour all around Shikoku. However, it goes on to most serious pilgrims don't feel like they've really completed the entire Shikoku pilgrimage. Unless they've gone to Koyasa, which is not even on on Shikoku Island. It's closer to Osaka in fact up in the mountains. It's a unique little town in the middle of nowhere up in the mountains, but it's devoted to 20 or 30 monasteries and almost all of them offer temple lodgings. It's not cheap, but they're very, very nice and they offer temple cuisine and and and Koyasa is kind of a must whether a person does the pilgrimage or not. It has a this is the largest Zen garden in Japan and cemetery. This is where Kawadaishi is buried and it's I believe well the whole town is UNESCO actually not just the cemetery but Koyasa in itself is a UNESCO World Heritage Site. This is part of the cemetery. This is an interesting sort of pyramid. But besides this kind of thing there are some wacky burial sites with with like the president of UCC coffee company is as a big marble coffee cup and one of the Japanese astronauts has a gravestone of a rocket ship. So there's some wacko kind of gravestones here too. But I like the more traditional things. And they have a fire ceremony at a low not all but some of the temples that offer a temple stay in Koyasa and they offer a fire ceremony and if you don't mind getting up at five o'clock in the morning but everybody else does so it's worth it. Koyasa is, you know, for many people it's it's it's the ultimate experience of the Chicago pilgrimage because it's it's kind of part of it really. Finally, I need to save some time for some question and answer I see some raised hands so. Here's my author page and I think there's Amazon US link to the book itself. You will notice that it's now in pre order phase on Amazon. It's, it's not. I think it's available September 30th in North America so. It's in pre order I know quite a few people who have have ordered already. And it's also on my author page it should be one of the first ones. So I'm going to move on to the question and answer I see a few. Yes, we have a lot of questions in the Q amp a function. Okay, all right. Let's read them to you. Yeah, would you. How, how was the pilgrimage different before the pandemic compared to during the pandemic. A lot more people. Now there are still people down there but they tend to be all Japanese or foreign residents of Japan and what I needed the editor of the book editor didn't like my proposed cover photos at all and no, no, I want pictures of pilgrims pilgrim pictures more more more. I said but there aren't any pilgrims. But one of the people I interviewed lives down there and she, she's kind of a kind of an important guide around there and she works for the government. She was quite nice and she drove me around to some of the more inaccessible temples and she put on her full garb and she posed for the front cover. So, so that was that helped a lot. Yeah, not many people. So I didn't have too many choices of people to photograph my friends. Custom if you are on a small amount of pilgrimage to wear that straw hat. Now, some people do. Well, it can be quite sunny and she cookers semi tropical. So it can be pretty, but most people just wear baseball cap or something to keep keep eyes on. This seems to be the most important thing just to identify you to bus drivers or other other pilgrims so other people know what's what, and they will, they will help you you'll get a lot more help if you're wearing the vest at least. Yeah, how do you get the best. There are shops along along the trail itself that kind of thing you can order my my one Amazon event. I think I got mine on Amazon Japan. But around temple number one in Tokushima. There are like two or three shops right next to the temple number one. They're ready to sell the whole temple staffs hats vests t shirts you name it. Who maintains the gardens they are so beautifully gorgeous. I mean, I love the difference between like just so maintain and then some are like very natural and it's very difficult to do I actually there's a Japanese garden right outside my house right right in my yard. I've learned it's one of my it's my photographic specialty, but I've learned to appreciate the work that goes into it because it's the work is just never ending, never ending. In the case of the temple gardens they're almost always maintained by the temple themselves. And if it's a big important temple they'll have their own, their own gardeners that you know that's part of a traditionally. They were maintained by monks it was it was especially in Zen Buddhism. It's a form of meditation gardening, especially raking the sand is, and, you know, trimming the leaves and all of that. It's a form of meditation they considered it but I think, even nowadays, even most in temples in Kyoto they have, they outsource it to gardening companies but I know a couple of monks who do it themselves. Because they like the tradition of it. And a question about the time period of the temples are they all around the same time are they very spaced out in time. You mean from each other. In time period. Like what do they date back to. I don't quite understand you mean each temple is usually open 24 hours. And is one of the questions 24 seven, what, when were the two temples developed, like when did they. Oh, years. Some of them go back. About 1000 years, you'll have to reference the book but there's a lot of information on Google on the, the Shikoku pilgrimage so the, the, the, the dates and things that of when they go back and who, who, who established them and. And all of that how many times it burned down all of that's available. Interesting. Each one, each one's different. We do have john's book on order as soon as it comes out from the publisher for you to check out. Have you ever seen children participating in a pillar. Yes, not too many but yes, usually with the parents you know and sometimes with their little vests on and they're the whole thing I was just dying for for a photo of. I thought that would have made a great front cover but there weren't any the last in 2020 and I spent about two months down there last year, finishing this up and there they were very even the adults were few on the ground. So, but, but in the past I've seen kids you know dressed up and everything. They were really into it. More likely that more likely though you see kids like community organizers, families and little communities and the kids participate more on these also tie things like to, to make signs for pilgrims or clean up the pots for pilgrims to rest in or, or clean or clean the trail or remove weeds from the trail. Sometimes you'll see kids doing that. It's great. Yeah, the community thing is really big down there. And here is this question is is two questions and one or a couple people have had this question I mean, could you explain with some granularity what you mean by some of the typical temples are difficult to get to, is it an issue of elevation to rain, no public transportation. All of the bell all of the above, like a couple of them I forgot the names of them were like four or five kilometers from the nearest main road with terrible little trail going up to it up, up, up, up, up for three or four kilometers and really difficult to get some of them. Really difficult. This person says they lived on coachy on she cuckoo for a year. The kindest people they ever met. Yeah, great. Their question is, if you only have one week to walk, where would you suggest. That's a tough question. If they go back to if in coachy prefecture, or anywhere. I, I'm going to say anywhere, but let's stick with anywhere for now. I would say if a person's limited for time for like one week. It's if a person like uses bicycles or buses or public transportation. It's a lot easier around Takamatsu or Matsuyama, because there's public transportation because those cities are in the northern part of Shikoku so they're more developed coachy is also not bad, nor is Tokushima Tokushima's bus system is hard to figure out I had difficulty figure out but someone from the city office drove me around from temple to temple so I had help there. I would personally, I tend to like Kagawa prefecture around Takamatsu because I have friends there and it's it's a very pleasant city and I like all the little ferry boats to all the little islands, you know, it's a nice place. I would could do that. But coaches, I would say the most dramatically scenic. But it's also the most rugged and difficult. Yeah, so a person has limited time I would say around Takamatsu or Tokushima or Matsuyama, but maybe not coachy, unless they fly straight into coachy. How about traveling the pilgrimage alone. Do you feel like that's safe. Oh yeah. Japan's extremely safe country, you know, even a woman traveling alone. You just don't have to worry. It's amazing in in today's world. It's just amazing that that exists. That's one of the best things about Japan actually. Does the Japanese government provide any financial support for maintaining the temples. Not too much now. That's why there's so much community involvement. I usually it's kind of like a church system, you know, so like, like people who are a member of the local church. They give donations to the priest and that's where it works that way. So probably the neighbors who who use that particular temple. They, they support the temple, but I don't think they get much from the government. Nor does the, the trail doesn't like the, the big pilgrimage in Spain, they get government support and UNESCO support and money should go to pilgrimage doesn't. So it's all community based, which, which keeps it kind of nice and friendly. Yeah, yeah, I like these two questions we have here. Is there an actual trail or path between the temples. And if so, what are they like, are they roadways that cars travel or just walking. That's a good, very good question. Okay. There are ancient trails that go through the weeds and the bamboo grows and all this stuff. And some of that still exists and some of it's well maintained. One of the main complaints of a lot of the foreign pilgrims is they don't like trudging down a busy highway, especially going through a tunnel on big trucks blasting through the tunnel. And they have to keep to the edge of the, the, the road, the, the tiny little walkway, you know, and a big truck blast through that walking through hideous suburbs, mile after mile after mile of asphalt and ugly suburbs. There's a lot of that. There's a lot of it. I wouldn't say completely unavoidable, but a certain amount of urban sprawl is going to be unavoidable. It exists. Even in Chicago, but there are trails that kind of make up for that. You know, out in the countryside, far away from a main city like Cochie City or Takamatsu or someplace like that, way out in the countryside. There will be a connecting trail from Temple 41 to 42, for example, through the bamboo, you know, where you don't have to go near a hideous road. But I'd say it's few and far between where that exists. Mind you, I took a lot of it by car and bus and train and bicycle, so I had to take the easier methods of getting there. But, but Masako who showed me quite a lot of it and she's one of the main guides down there. She showed me some of the funky trials. In fact, she posed on the front cover on one of the bamboo trails. So they exist. The word pilgrimage, to me, coming from a Western tradition implies a strong religious element. Are most shikoku pilgrims practicing Buddhist, or is it more of a personal spiritual journey for people? That's a very, very good question. I think a lot of many Japanese don't really consider themselves particularly religious. They say that a lot of people at the end of doing the pilgrimage, they find some kind of epiphany or enlightenment or they got, they got something spiritual out of it, whether they were religious or not. And I've met foreigners who have even admitted to such, you know, but I would say that a lot of people, it's more of a personal journey than a religious thing. Some people, it's basically just a hiking marathon. I'm sorry to say that that exists too. The officials down there don't like that. And the hot people don't like it because they abuse the hot and sleep in them for free place to sleep and all this stuff. There are serious pilgrims, sort of. And there's also tour group pilgrims who go around and buses, you know, and unload about 50 pilgrims at each temple and cause mayhem and they're not particularly appreciated either so. There are walking, so-called walking pilgrim tends to be much more traditional and quiet and they would be there either for a personal reason or trying to get away from it all, or maybe a little bit of a spiritual reason. But I wouldn't say so many of them are that religious but you, you do hear lots of chanting. I think this one, I think this is a really great one maybe to end on, but we are running out of time, we don't want to keep John forever, but this one from Masako. Hi, John, it's Masako, the cover girl. Oh, hi, Masako. She says she really enjoyed her talk, you're the talk and congratulations. Did she get the copy? I sent her an advance copy. I could put that in the chat, Masako, if you received your copy of the book. She's wondering if the audience today are mostly interested in coming to Shikoku to do the pilgrimage, or people have already done that and you can put that in chat everyone if you want. Who's ready to do the pilgrimage? I think a lot of people, a lot of these questions are really like, how do I do this kind of questions, John? Like, what's the best time of year? Spring, spring, spring or autumn? Definitely, definitely not winter and definitely not summer. A lot of people don't imagine, but Japan summer is really hot and humid. Like, I lived in Bangkok for five years in the past two or three weeks around here has been worse than I can ever remember in Bangkok. I mean, really hot and humid. And you don't want to be walking for 10 or 15 kilometers per day and that kind of heat. Definitely not. So autumn, like October, October, November is a good time. Or, unfortunately, September is a hurricane or typhoon season. So October, November or April, May, those are peak. And Masako, did you see all those answers in the chat box flying through? Everybody wants to come. You have to quarantine in Japan for 14 days now. And that's what's keeping me from going home or going to France where I like to go every autumn. It's been putting me out because I don't want to be stuck for 14 days without going out of the house. But I know people who've been doing it. You know, I have a friend in Santa Barbara, but his wife's Japanese and he loves Japan, and he has a house in Nara, and he's been back three times, back and forth, back and forth. I said, but don't you have to quarantine? He says, yeah, but it's worth it. So I guess we're going to have to wrap our brain around that someday. That's just the way things are. And the editor of this book, she's Thai-British. And she has a house in Bangkok and actually a huge compound in Bangkok. She's semi-royal. And a lovely house in London. She's gone back and forth two or three times. And she has to quarantine both ends. But she keeps doing it. Well, that's just the way it is. So I guess that's how we have to start thinking. The final question is, I mean, there are more questions here, John. People are really thankful and seem to really be enjoying the presentation. So we really thank you. What is the most important preparations for successful and memorable pilgrimage? I'll learn as much Japanese as you can. If you don't speak Japanese, I'd say that would be number one. That would hurt. My Japanese is not very good. I traveled with Japanese, so that helped things a lot. But that would help immensely. These are rural places. You'll find, you know, foreigners will find people who speak English or French or even Spanish or Chinese. I don't know if it's Masu or Masuyama, maybe, or Tokushima, but not in the middle of nowhere. At the end of the Aishizure Peninsula, you just won't find it. It would be very difficult to communicate. My Japanese is just good enough to take care of necessary matters if necessary if I'm by myself. Yeah, I would say that would be number one. Number two, plenty of money. Because a person doesn't want to depend on people's giving them a free place to stay or more or less illegally sleeping over in a hut. People need to spend, save their money and bring enough money that they can spend in a business hotel or wherever. Temple lodging, you know, without depending too much on the kindness of locals because they're doing it out of their own pensions or their own community chast. You know, try to maintain things and it's tough going, especially now. Temple lodging? It's about 4,000 yen a night without meals. That's about $40. It's not expensive, but a lot of them are not open now because of COVID and the more commercial ones are open. I'm not sure. Usually, on these websites devoted to the Shikoku Pilgrimage, they keep that sort of information up today. Alright, my friends. John, thank you so much. Thank you for hosting it. And these photos are all from your book? Yes. Yeah, I chose them very carefully and tried to keep it down to 40, 45 minutes, you know, but there's about five times more in the book, you know, so. And you can see the love coming through on the chat box right now, John. Oh, everyone says thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for coming. Thanks for coming. Alright friends, I'm going to steal the share so you can see John's face and my face. Well, no, I guess I can't do that. You can stop sharing for a second, John. Okay. Alright friends, like I said, you can go ahead and check out the book or you can put it on hold and you will get it eventually when it comes in. I think even publishers are slow with COVID right now so. Yeah, and there's our shipping problems. Yeah, even intern even domestic we're having shipping problems. It's okay, John, don't worry about it. Thank you. This will be on YouTube you say it will be on YouTube and I'll put that link in the chat one more time as well. And we'll keep it up there for some time. And you can come back and view it and you know, could you send me the email link. In the chat so. Let's see here comes here comes here we go. There it is. Alright friends but yes I will send you an email after this done. Thanks so much. All right, everyone have a wonderful night and we'll see you again. And thank you for concluding our summer start programming. Wow. Bye bye San Francisco. I miss it. When he says goodbye Uncle John. One of my nephews or nieces. April. April. She's coming from New Zealand. All right. That's going to just look so good on my stats.