 So this is Thursday the I believe 16th of 17th of September. Thank you. And Senate government operations. And what what we've done is the reason we've set this particular session up is I also serve on judiciary and when we were Commissioner Baker was talking to us and going over the corrections budget with judiciary and one of the things he said or one of the things that came up was I asked about the frozen Madam Chair. Oh dear. I guess you could take over Anthony until she comes back in. Rather can you you can't hear us obviously. Boy this zoom thing I'm telling you. Imagine if we were doing a roll call vote on something that was only going to be like one one vote off and kicked out and know how he goes through the names twice in case how would that work if you actually had no control over the fact that you got thrown out of the meeting. I wanted about that today when somebody got thrown out. Oh I think it was Senator Baruth and he couldn't vote because he was frozen and they called his name twice and he was able to get back in. Here she comes back in. We waited for you. Yep. Yeah unmute yourself now. You unmute. Thank you. Now you're back. Momentarily have lost our electricity. Oh really? Yeah everything just went out and I saw while I was trying to get myself back in I saw a note from Senator Bray that said he can't find the the link that's highlighted that's blue so he can't get in. I'll send it to him. It wasn't in blue you have to copy and paste it. Oh I I had Gail send it to me again in blue. I did also send it to Senator Bray so he should be joining us. Okay. Okay. And also it's in Gail's email to us. Yes but sometimes it isn't in blue so you can't click on it. Oh yeah so in blue probably isn't the technical term but it sounds like a state of mind in blue or a bad movie. So the reason that we did this is because as I was trying to say before we lost electricity that we I had asked the commissioner about the lack of PPEs in corrections because what we heard from VSEA is that they were having to make their own their own gowns and masks and stuff and one of the things he said is that they were doing their own for some reason they were doing their own purchasing instead of doing it through EOC and EOC the same DGS? No EOC is Emergency Operations Center. Oh oh okay right right. So he um he said that what they had had they had sort gotten a site for where they could purchase I don't remember what it was 90,000 PPEs and but by the time they got through the purchasing system and got an actual purchase order from BGS there were very few of them left people other people had scourved them up. So since we're responsible for contracting this committee I thought we might just want to hear from BGS about whether there were emergency provisions put in around the the issuing of purchase orders or what might have been the the issue for this particular one and are you commissioner now Jennifer? Hi good afternoon Madam Chair I am the acting commissioner I think as many of you probably know Commissioner Cole has left the state I'm sure you will see him again in the future at some point for sure he loves the state house so I'm sure he'll be back in some type of capacity okay um so yes I have been the acting commissioner and this is my fourth week so I don't know if you're in a position to answer the question about what happened but but it it was concerning to us and so I am in a position you probably you haven't been before our committee before so I'm going to ask us to introduce ourselves because usually we deal with same old people all the time you know but you're a new face so I'm Jeannette White from Wyndham County very nice to meet you Madam Chair I'm Anthony Polina from Washington County I already call more representing Rutland County Allison Clarkson representing Windsor County district and Senator Bray will be with us representing Addison as soon as he can get in so all right thank you well thank you and I've been with the state since 2004 I worked for VTrans for about 13 years I was in the accelerated bridge program which I'm sure you have all heard about and then when Commissioner Cole came over to BGS he asked me to be his deputy and so I've been with BGS for three and a half years in terms of operations that's pretty much been my role for the department so I know quite a bit when it comes to all things operating BGS so I can certainly speak to this particular concern what has been challenging as you know is sourcing PPE has been a challenge all along and basically the reason why sourcing PPE is a challenge as you can imagine is that all states right are hunting for PPE and so there was sort of a lag in terms of supply and demand the supply of PPE is getting better that being said it's still not necessarily reliable and obviously it sort of goes up and down based on what's happening in other states across the country and so the particular issue of the 20,000 masks is that you are correct Madam Chair DOC went out and tried to source 20,095 masks when they when they felt that they had a source they came to the OPC as as you folks on the committee very well know we do all the commodities for the state of Vermont and so they came to the OPC one of the things that we do when things come to the OPC is we actually have to vet those quotes we found that there's been a lot of manufacturers as you could imagine within the US and globally who who state that they have PPE and state that they can meet your specifications and requirements but when we look into it that is actually not the case and so there's quite a bit of investigation that goes on behind the scenes to make sure that all of the purchases are legitimate and that the manufacturer can meet our specifications and timeline in the case of the DOC the 20,000 masks what we found when we started engaging the company is that they were only able to source us as actual smaller amounts so while they said they could provide 20,000 masks in fact I believe they could only provide 2000 I can check that number real quick just yes 2000 of extra small masks was all they could source at the time I believe that DOC was under the impression that that time period where we were doing the investigation is sort of where we lost that opportunity to get those additional masks however and speaking with the manufacturer it was no this is all we have sort of obligated to for now but we are going to try to provide you with up to 20,000 masks but we can't give you a guarantee in terms of when they'll be available to you and so we did we issued a contract we got the 20,000 or we got the 2000 masks and obviously since that time that manufacturer has not come forward and said okay we can we can provide additional masks underneath that contract the good news I have good news though the good the good news is is that anytime you're in a state of emergency you're correct madam chair and that things get sourced through the SCOC which is the emergency operations center and what happens is is that they have a warehouse and they buy a whole bunch of PPE or whatever it is that they're needing for that particular emergency it goes to the warehouse and then the state basically leverages the warehouse for those for those commodities or whatever it may be now that we're sort of in this what I would call steady state of the pandemic both groups like the department of corrections and the department of mental health know how much they need on a daily basis so we figured out what we call the burn rate and now we're switching that responsibility for purchasing PPE over from the SCOC to the OPC and so Deb DeMore and her team the director of OPC is actively working with our partners to figure out what that burn rate is because then we know what our need is and then they're going to start sourcing it so basically we're getting that PPE in based on the need of those different departments and yesterday actually I spoke with I spoke with the agency of agriculture and it turns out they also need PPE and I think that there's just a we could be communicating better I think across the enterprise and the executive branch about where to go for what you need so for example yesterday I hooked up agency of agriculture with the OPC so there's just a little bit of education that we need to continue to provide to our customers but I will let you know we are very much actively working on that so this particular issue sounds like it was just a misunderstanding by the commissioner or I mean a misunderstanding between the commissioner and BGS about what actually happened Anthony that is correct I just want to understand Department of Corrections for example they went out and looked for the sources of PPEs as opposed to just coming to you first and saying we need PPEs is that the way it works would they normally go out on their own or would they figure well we need something let's call BGS right away and see what's up how's where's that how what's the format for that so that is that is an excellent question I think what's happening right now is it's that transition between going to the SEOC for your needs and getting getting basically moving over to the OPC and I think that's where we at BGS need to do a better job of reaching out to our customers and Deb Demore Deb Demore a couple weeks ago recognized this right so she's been actively reaching out to the departments that she knows that needs PPE to make sure that they know that you should come to the OPC we provide all commodities for the entire state of Vermont and so that is an area we can improve on and we are and I think that's where the it came from is that people don't recognize that the OPC is available to them and and the SEOC at some point said you know we're not in that state of emergency like we were in the beginning you need to start procuring these things on your own and not going through the SEOC and I think that's where the discrepancy is coming from because you would also obviously be able to buy in greater quantity if you if you were doing it and bring in different agencies together thanks I was just curious how that works that is correct and as you know if we buy in bulk we can get cheaper prices now I saw you had your hand up you're on mute oh I I'm just no not you Allison oh I thought you would you would think after six months or eight months we'd figure out the mute button but good afternoon thank you what were you trying to say Allison oh I'm sorry I thought you called on me and I didn't see I hadn't put my gallery of you on but I just wanted to clarify with Jennifer the acronyms just always fly around and I get the emergency operation center but OPC is the office of purchasing what's the C stand for and contracting and contracted got it right I knew it was the okay thank you sorry Alex okay yes good afternoon Madam Chair thank you Al Cormier from the Department of Corrections I just wanted to clarify on that that purchase with the 20,000 you know we had done the homework on that to verify the validity of those those masks and they were available to us but what the process was so long that we ended up losing them so they did we had that guarantee and then the process through going through procurement took so long that there was only 2000 left when when we finally got the approval so I think that the the conversations that Commissioner Baker's had with Acting Commissioner Fitch in the last week or so we've come to an understanding that there needs to be better communication but to Senator Polina's question we have gone through the SEOC on numerous occasions as as our first try in and we've just we haven't gotten I mean we have a running tally a list of the requisitions we submitted to the SEOC without getting those fulfilled so that we have tried that process and because of the burn rates that that we have been calculating from from the onset of COVID we've been able to really figure out what what we need on a regular basis and that hasn't been that so you know we're still waiting on over 10,000 masks from the SEOC that that that requisition wasn't filled since March we've used 1.4 million gloves in the Department of Corrections that's a lot of gloves you know it's 700,000 pairs of gloves and so we're you know we're trying to keep our stock up it's not that we're hoarding or trying to stockpile we're trying to be prepared for the next onslaught of COVID should it come and trying to work with with both BGS and the SEOC and getting those but it hasn't you know it's felt like DOC hasn't been a priority but again I think we've you know with those conversations between the Commissioner and the Acting Commissioner I think we've got to a point where we understand that that there is a need there and I'm hoping that will get that'll improve as we move forward but just to clarify that those those 20,000 masks were there we just we lost them because of the process okay I'm not exactly sure where to go from here just that we wanted to hear what actually did happen and it was very concerning to hear from the Commissioner that but it looks like things are improving and working out and that there's more communication and and our con we we tend to refer to Debbie as our contract queen but I guess we should also refer to her as our purchasing queen huh that is correct okay so committee do you have any other concerns or uh Allison you are unmuted I know you know I can never remember I try so hard you can see it on your name I know I just did not I you have to press it to see it um Al I just like to know as you look forward what are the uh as as this pandemic evolves what are the emerging needs that you have now and what kind of lead time and heads up can you give the office of purchasing and contracting so that it isn't on a last minute basis and and you know so what what are your evolving needs what are you finding other than gloves that that that you're um needing so the the priorities right now are the masks the gloves and the gowns and obviously as as was stated earlier you know we have been manufacturing our own gowns out of out of garbage bags and um while it sounds really bad they're actually a very well made product uh to the point where we're actually supplying these gowns to the Springfield Hospital because they also have been unable to find gowns for their their medical staff so we've been supplying gowns to to the the hospital in Springfield um but that you know the the gowns the gloves and the masks are really the the the PPE that we need to to keep our staff safe that's those are the big three and you are and now it sounds like um BGS is um working to make sure that the the supply is there and that they have a stockpile of them as you go need to go through them i believe so yeah did i understand that right okay i'm also just i just just it's a curious thing i mean obviously we're talking about PPEs and we imagine that we're talking about staff but i'm just wondering what about inmates are they they're wearing masks and stuff like that they are they doing the whole thing they are um so we yeah we've we've been providing masks to the to the inmate population as well and those the N95s we've reserved for our isolation units when we have COVID positive cases but the inmate population we've supplied with cloth masks and microfiber masks um that we're also manufacturing ourselves in our facility up in Newport um St. Johnsbury facility has also started with microfiber manufacturing so um again you know we're we're trying to be innovative and stay ahead of the curve and being able to provide those masks to the inmate population so you're making masks yourself making masks yes workforce development for the for our correctional uh guests yes they yeah the the inmates are making them you know we've we've purchased several sewing machines and and that's great population is is putting those together and we found a uh a company where we can buy the microfiber we've the the research that we've done shows that microfiber is actually much better barrier than than the cloth the regular cloth masks like a 77 blockage rate maybe you'll offer these to the entire state and the office of purchasing and contracting will work with you guys they'll they'll be buying uh microfiber masks from us yeah um so yeah so we're we're we're trying to stay ahead of that and and keep our population um masked up we've also actually I think we just sent another 300 of those microfiber masks to the population in Mississippi so we've actually been supplying the the Mississippi population with with the masks as well that's great sounds like they need it yeah and I just want you all to know that DOC has done a phenomenal job with their inmate population and managing COVID-19 I mean they just they came up with a really good way of of managing new people coming in and every time they've had a COVID-19 case in a correctional facility they've tested everyone so they've done a fantastic job at managing COVID-19 in correctional facilities I'm not sure you guys know that but they really have done an outstanding job thank you and Al how many people are now in st. John'sbury that over spill area that you'd set up so there there isn't so we shut down the surge facility in st. John'sbury and that's back to normal operations I think they're well we just tested that facility on Monday there was 135 inmates that were tested there and those are all genuine general population inmates thanks anything else committee all right well thank you so much for both of you for coming