 The broadcast is live all right Let's go ahead and get started. I think with a prayer, but I want to introduce or the prayer Joe Father nim chop and have him open us up if you would further nim chop Oh, absolutely. I think sometimes we try to reinvent the wheel But the Lord gives us so much through the liturgy of the church. So I'll use the collect from today's mass Name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Amen. Oh God Who willed that when your son was lifted high on the cross his mother should stand close by and share his suffering? Grant that your church participating with the Virgin Mary and the passion of Christ may merit a share in his resurrection Who lives and reigns with you in the unity of the Holy Spirit? God forever and ever. Amen In the Father and the Son and Holy Spirit. Well, welcome folks to this Webinar vocation crisis a turning point question mark Before we jump in and I want to introduce our guests some of you know me if you don't I'm president the Aval Institute. That's enough More importantly, I want to introduce dr. Joe Holcraft. He's taught in every form of education known to man It's hosted a radio broadcast He teaches for the high call the the Aval Institute at the graduate level He's also an author the author of a great book a heart for evangelizing and unleashing the power of Intercessory prayer and he's a the director of the high calling program at the Aval Institute most importantly Joseph is Devoted husband and father beautiful family Ohio all up in Ohio, right Joe Yep, we got to go up and see see them when he first came on board. It's it's you really have a beautiful clan there father Father Michael Nimchok is the son of two Polish immigrants and in high school He allowed the Catholic faith become more than just a consequence of being Polish and something crucially important in his life so he completed his graduate studies and theology at the sacred scripture at the Pontifical Gregorian University and he was ordained in 2016 in Santa Fe now serves as pastor of Sacred Heart Parish in Clovis, New Mexico And is the vocation director for the Archdiocese of Santa Fe welcome father Michael. Thank you very much great Minor You know geographical note my wife's parents are from Roswell, New Mexico, so I'm sure you know really yeah Her mom's from Costa Rica, but she's a legal immigrant Illegal alien. I mean to joke aliens Roswell. I'm gonna get I'm gonna offend somebody. I know Well, I have you know, I have to use it so so Yeah, so her her dad is a deacon down there and takes care of the the Poor clear nuns and so I've been to been to New Mexico many times We actually met first in Chimayo Steffi and I met the first time face-to-face in Chimayo before we were before we were married, so it's pretty That's beautiful. Yeah, Santa Fe is a really just an amazing place So Joe, why don't you set us up? This is I you know, we do a lot of work in the church a lot of Publications and events and formation and you know Graduate studies and you know all the things we do But I don't think there's anything more important than what we do and what we're going to be talking about tonight What you do what you're you know your your uh Your role in the Aval Institute and and I'm very excited to be to be talking about this So set us up if you would a bit Sure. Yeah, I think it's important to take father Michael's cue That uh, you know, we we try to reinvent the wheel and we just need to stay focused on the day, you know the liturgy What's today, but the memorial of our Lady of Sorrows and I think it's really important to reflect upon that Just not in light of today, but really also yesterday, right because When you think about it one is to never disconnect our Lady of Sorrows from the triumph of the cross There's a reason why in the wisdom of the church We have the triumph of the cross yesterday because ultimately What was it from the 14th century when we are given this great memorial this great feast day? This great prayer of our Lady of Sorrows and inter seven sorrows We are to see that the Immaculate Heart and the Sacred Heart of Jesus are united Right, the new Adam and the new Eve are united in one mission and that mission is one of redemption Now I was praying our Lady with the Our Lady of Sorrows today And I was made to hit the pause button on the fifth sorrow, which of course is the crucifixion of our Lord And just staying with that meditation staying with with Mary In just not that hour, but three hours and thinking about tonight This this discussion we're having And how Mary would have been looking at her son in deep deep grief deep deep pain humanly unimaginable And listening so intently on every word and what was What was it that our Lord said what were his last his last words, but it is finished It is finished Consumatum asked and how How Mary must have just contemplated those words and soon thereafter You know the blood and water come gushing from the side of Christ You know we translate Consumatum asked as it is finished rightfully so in one hand, but but quite literally It means what but it is consummated Here the blood and water come gushing from the side of Christ. I have to believe that Our Lady our Lady of Sorrows was meditating upon the meaning of those words What does it mean To say it is consummated certainly She had insight there to take that pondering to take that meditation All the way fast forward how many ever weeks Months it would have been but to Mary's first mass I've with her being Jerusalem Galilee, uh, maybe it was in Ephesus right tradition holds it that uh John took Mary with with him to Ephesus And then at that first mass for Mary to hear Those words from one of the apostles, maybe it was John This is my body given to you This cup which is poured out is the new testament is my blood in my blood I I just I couldn't get past that it was actually a little bit emotional for me Just to think about Mary hearing those words the one who who was inside her womb as St. John Paul the great reminded us so often that she lived the Eucharistic faith from the moment of of the enunciation How beautiful and powerful it is to think about A very particular love she must have had for the priest Because she must have gone to them to receive him again to to be intimate with him again They could so beautiful and st. John Paul the great again Really encouraged us to think about this With this fifth sorrow Pi is the 12th and one of his audiences One said in reflecting. I think it was Father Michael an audience to uh to priest when he was talking about Why Mary should be known as the mother of priests and understood as the mother of priests and and she said and he said of Mary, you know Mary has a love for for all of her children But can we not say that she has a particular love for her priests because The priest is a living image of her son And in light of this this afternoon I couldn't help but think if there is in fact a particular love for the priesthood Then there would surely be a particular grief Yeah When there is A crisis that we're in today She loves her priests obviously but on a day like today We are called to meditate on the significance of Mary's sorrow of Mary's pain of Mary's torment And no doubt this evening tonight guys. It's it's there's going to be some gravity to the conversation But as we will discuss inside the cross inside the tension for the cross there's also A blaincy there's there's a reason why we say good friday, but to claim good friday. We must first meditate upon the cross The crisis of the cross And so it is I think really reflecting into as we have Started to talk about it this vocation vocation crisis which we are in in many ways And we're going to really break this open and what that means and what it doesn't mean Um But there is something that that's been unfolding just not for two three five ten years really this this stretches back 40 50 60 years And uh, so again, we just we keep our lady of sorrows in the rear view mirrors. We have this conversation mindful of her particular grief Which comes from her particular love and and what she desires From us, you know the three of us, but certainly the community has gathered here tonight Um well said well said Yeah, I mean, uh, so tonight we're we're gonna do a few things. This isn't just going to be a downer But I think it's really important Uh, I mean, I I love what you said about Mary's love is particular Uh, her motherhood is particularly for priests And then her sorrow then is particularly deep When in this kind of crisis Um, and it certainly is true and and I want to share a few data points with folks to to reveal how how bad it really is And it's interesting I I've ignored this for a while and and the reason why is because I have a spiritual discipline I had to have this as the president of vwtn news But I've just had it for a long time and that is I don't focus on things I cannot Effect in some way through prayer or like direct action Because that'll get you spun around a big axle And I want to encourage folks as you hear this very I would I would call it Epic, you know, scary not good news There is good news at the end. Uh, there there is good news God always takes care of his people, but I think we got to face the issue The reason I'm facing it now God be praised is because we Started the high calling program to help guys get ready for seminary Now we're helping them navigate seminary by training priests to give spirits of correction We'll talk about the details of that stuff And then a new work that God is allowing us to do which is coming alongside good Vocation directors like Father Michael and saying how about we're really good at this digital thing How about we help bring some guys to the table? So there so I for the first time I'm focused on it because I just don't want to weep over it I can certainly pray over it But for the first time I'm focused on it because I know we can do something about it And I say that God willing he sure lets us do a lot of great things And I think he's going to let us in on this one as well So I'm going to share my screen with you and show you just a few basic points of trends that Are pretty Pretty pretty scary Let's see and I'll have to rely on you Joe to make sure you know folks can see it And just let me know If folks can see it here. Can you see that screen the data there? I don't Okay, so let me see. What do you see? Oh, something's coming up now. Yeah, how's that? Uh, I can see it. Okay Um, okay. Yeah Not great Yeah, of course, uh, you're asking somebody doesn't have the best eyes there. Okay. All right. Well, I'll walk you through the numbers There are two graphs on the screen and and it you know One shows from 1965 to about a decade ago Um huge increase in Catholics and numbers of millions in the united states The bottom slide show and that's growing growing growing every year. I don't know where we are now, but regardless There's a huge gap The bottom graph shows from 65 To about 10 years ago a dramatic decline in the number of priests What does that bring us to today so it it you could have predicted this 10 years ago And and I'm sure folks were disturbed about it then What what it brings us to today and I'll just go ahead and share this if it's if it's not If it's not all that easy to easy to see Is that 38 dioceses in the united states? had zero Ordinations this past year And joe correct me if I'm wrong on the data you watch it closely 38 of 177 now you might say well that must make up all the little dioceses right not the ones that were Filled to the brim with Catholics like new york So then you might ask how many did ordain how many did new york ordain this year? none Detroit filled with catholics. How many did detroit ordain this year none So when you when you couple this decades old trend, which is a disaster With The the conclusions that that are coming to bet to bear now And of course there are other factors that we all know about we don't need to talk about The junk in the church and sickness in the church that's contributed to some of this But another data point makes it all sort of exponential perfect storm ish where When certain kinds of Trends come together One trend alone can be bad enough. That is the mate, you know the the number of catholics Which is quite significant and the number of priests decline dramatically those two are bad enough The third one is the average age of priests in the united states is 67 years old So what does that mean? What does that do to a young guy like father michael? Well, I he can testify himself And and you know, god bless every priest and we we have a ministry to pray for priests In our community of apostles to be a we're deeply committed to supporting our priests but How many priests can deal with the onslaught? of increased workload decreased help And retirees and stay spiritually healthy Like what is that pressure like, you know father michael? One of that we have a priest in our community Who's up in massachusetts? And I remember there was this period where he was losing his mind Because he had funeral after funeral after funeral he's like dan You know, I I don't have any help and I'm I'm totally committed to my prayer life And and it's not I it isn't because of my sacramental responsibilities I don't I don't have a choice, you know in certain circumstances when I get called So he's a young priest. He's about your age. Are you feeling that pressure as well in your priesthood of the of the The absence of help or do you have a unique situation in your diocese? No, I don't I don't think there are any uh situations where That pressure isn't present And it it's difficult it can at times be kind of Something that's demoralizing to to see we're about to have so many retirements and we don't have seminarians to fill those voids But at the same time it's exciting Living the human heart. There's something to a challenge I love that we want to we want to be able to face the challenge at hand And I was talking to joe about this the other day Like we're in a privileged time of crisis right now. Yeah We we can do something we can be uh at this pivot point in the life of the church where we see it going in a terrible direction And we can do something about it. Amen. Sometimes people will ask me like Oh, well, they won't actually ask they'll just comment because I'm vocation director as well as pastor, right? So when I'm wearing the vocation director hat, they'll say hey, not too many uh faces on that poster A better question would be Hey, what can I do right? I want to be part of this great work right to bring more faces to that poster And to be able to Support our priests and being saints because there was never a crisis in the church that didn't bring about saints If we have fewer priests with a greater workload Yes, there are some structural things that we can look at but that's not the full solution the full solution is How do we help form our seminarians and our priests to be saints? Amen, that's what gets us Into a better place in this crisis and I don't want to miss getting ahead of ourselves. No, that's okay I don't want to miss a point a point that you said Because I I want it like just by chance if we have some guys out there who You know who who are you know wavering because of the of the the size of the storm. This is a time for men Right. This is a time for men of God To stand up and run into the fight not away from the fight Like you want to be what a priest is really called to be You you be that now and you'll be like, you know, this is there's no other time No other opportunity in our lifetime certainly not in mine and you look to be like half my age and so so But where where heroism will The call to be a hero for christ in christ through christ Is so prominent and guys need to say, you know what? Yeah, I'm I'm not gonna I'm not gonna back down I'm not afraid of this because he'll be with me He'll empower me if I'm called to be a priest He'll give me everything I need and and he'll give you an attitude like father michael's which is hey, it's tough, but You know, it's it's time for guy time to real men to stand up And and follow him and give everything they have so joe. I want to ask Or for both of you god has not stopped, you know stopped calling men to respond Why are they hesitating? In in this time because we know they are hesitating Yeah, I mean, there's there's a lot there You're right to say dan god has not stopped calling. He's not stopped giving on a level men have stopped responding and receiving in the end and I I highlight that word received receptivity because And I know father michael you can speak to this as well beautifully, but One of the the earmarks that That that has been made quite clear to me just these last three years of working with guys Is they will admit to me Almost across the board that while they had received something an intuition a seed planted inside the heart their heart To why they you know walked through father father michael your door They weren't men of prayer and they weren't men of committed prayer. They lacked a vigorous prayer life. So They they would come to me and say and many of them have said something like I thought I knew how to pray until I didn't you know I thought I knew how to discern until I didn't And dan you're talking about what it means to be a hero and you too father michael How can we even begin that journey of heroism if we haven't first started? To become men of prayer and I think that's absolutely foundational. I mean we live I mean there has been a dramatic cultural shift A dramatic cultural shift where everything around you is so hyper sexualized and man A celibate life celibacy. Well forget about that. That's the last thing I want to I want to do There's been a complete breakdown of the family um Collectively we we've seen it across the united states of the last again 40 50 60 years in some diocese And it really speaks to what you were speaking to earlier dan there has There's just been a lack of emphasis on vocation. So now is the time for There there to be a renewal and emphasis on vocations as there has been in some diocese and certainly first and foremost a renewal from top down in prayer I there is a fascinating stat that I came across recently that 80 percent of all our seminarians Come from parishes that have perpetual adoration chapels. Wow So so so pause there So the guy who comes in and says hey the poster's thin like well, I want this to be very practical I want I want to pull these little things out here, right? So you're listening and you're going well, what am I supposed to do? Yes become you become a person of prayer Because god has desired ins and chosen means And and he wants men and the priest to it and you're the means through prayer And if you don't do it that those graces don't come So we have to do our job, but here's a real practical one start perpetual adoration in your parish. Sorry to interrupt Joe No, and that's it it this highlights, you know here We're talking about this crisis that is before us and we ought to be mindful that inside the word crisis The actual latin translates as turning point, right? So so the cross itself is the great crisis But it it's at the same time the turning point Now I know a lot of diocese across this country that were barren invocations 2015 10 years ago my home diocese now the stockton diocese Now four years ago. I think it was didn't have a single seminarian And now three four years later they have nine and nine might not sound like a big number But there's several things going on there the first of which You've got nine guys now and yet yet yet zero, but What's happening on the ground the bishops the vocation directors the catholic school teachers The families all of them have placed an emphasis on vocations and praying for vocations So it would not surprise me And uh, I asked father Cesar martini says permission to talk about this Because he's the vocation director of stockton, but it would not surprise me to see the stockton diocese booming with vocation sooner rather than later And there's a lot of other diocese we can talk about that where there is a crisis no doubt and you've highlighted that dan 15 years ago They were that diocese right and now Some of these diocese have 45 50 555 vocations. I'm thinking about you know, the diocese in milwaukee In some other dioceses that are just doing well and thriving because Everyone everyone has a part to play Right, and you just said it You know, we don't pray to change god's mind But but to bring fruition what's in god's mind god doesn't need to use our prayer stack He chooses to use our prayers to act and it's in an invitation from god to us to participate in his redemptive love What greater thing can we do? than participate in the building up of the priesthood And alleviate some of that grief from our lady of sorrows Amen, so father michael uh, one of the things that uh, joe and I have talked about and i've seen out there that is a challenge for vocation directors and just vocations in general Is we've had a radical culture shift at a pace Uh, probably comparable to the 60s um, I was I was you know born in 65, so I can't speak to direct experience, but That happened very quickly undermined the culture of the united states in huge ways got everybody off guard I think we're in another one of those radical shifts culturally where You I don't know. Can you use the same means used in the past to reach guys or maybe Uh adjust those means a little bit like what is it like for you dealing with The young man of today maybe versus you even just not too long ago as you were discerning the priesthood um I think there is more of a fear of commitment In young men than I've ever seen before. I mean, I don't Not uh that far removed, but even from the time that that I was discerning toward the end of high school till now there's this thought of uncertainty about the future and uncertain A certain self-doubt. I don't know if I can commit to something great because I don't know if I can live it out And so to address that I think there's a a remote solution and a proximate solution The proximate solution is encourage guys that you see To develop a prayer life where they can start to trust in God in some of the little things and then be able to trust in God In the big thing of the rest of their lives see in them what they can't see in themselves There's so much power in being able to say to someone who might be riddled with self-doubt I could see God working powerfully through you Sometimes that's the first time they've heard that those words And it gives them that confidence in a sense the The tactic for vocation's promotion has been the same since Jesus walking along the shore of the Sea of Galilee It's pointing at someone looking at them and saying I see more in you than you see in yourself Consider this follow Jesus in this way but the so that's the proximate solution is Speaking out and accompanying men and deepening their prayer lives and showing them that they they might be called to Something that they never counted on but the remote preparation Is in families to have instead of just hiding kids from a toxic culture even though there are some Ways that we do need to create a perimeter of defense around families The important thing is to build up a better culture Not just take away from them something bad, but give them something good Young boys for so long have not been told that they can be heroes that that's a good thing for them to strive for And they've never seen the priesthood is heroic They've seen it as just kind of weird distant kind of cold. So all sorts of rules that we have to follow Uh priests have to be as far away from families as possible And that has created This this culture where kids don't think where young boys don't grow up thinking I want to be a hero And being a priest is a way to do that It's interesting just Connected to the heroism one of the things I love about the high calling program So for those listening you might not know that we we do formation for guys In how many dioceses now joe? Yeah, this year we have 44 and potentially more yeah, so we do formation for guys heading into seminary one of the things we do Is work on their heroic imagination. Can you just describe that for a minute joe? So these are guys who have not yet entered into seminary. So they're still discerning But how do we help guys Get a little bit of what I I have a sense father michael has You know from his family or his culture or whatever, but how do we help instill that in guys? Yeah, too. Well, you use the word Imagine right uh john paul St. John paul the great really encouraged young men To what he would call wonder for the priesthood and what he meant by that is When you go to mass Imagine yourself saying mass if you're at the altar I've talked a lot of high calling guys. They first received their call at the altar right altar serving when you're at the altar Imagine yourself the priest When you're talking with the priest and and having real conversations with him ask the priest to You know to join him and on maybe a trip to the to the jail or the prison Or the convalescent home and just imagine yourself doing that as a priest St. John paul the great would would speak to this often because he saw that inside the imagination Which of course is one of the great faculties of the soul The spirit moves in beautiful and mysterious ways and so the catholic imagination which of course First and foremost has established a catholic worldview Begins to step into something that god might be calling you to and I love what you said there father michael because We've lost our sense of invitation. It's interesting. It just came out from a recent pew survey that More than 70 percent of all priests today first started to Think about the priesthood Because simply they were asked They entered into that Proximate thing you're talking about and simply said you want to know what I see something in you that you might not see in yourself the priesthood For some reason in some areas we've just stopped asking You know, it's a heroic thing to ask You know, we have a part to play in there but the importance of the catholic imagination the influence of Of wondering and to just kind of putting yourself Um in the shoes of a priest and st. John paul the great would say if this excites you take that as a sign If you see yourself doing this, that's a good thing, right? But if we don't do this if we don't step into that imagination Um, we might be missing something missing an opportunity to uh for the spirit to move in our hearts Yeah, that that's actually what did me and in my own uh vocation story Is I started daydreaming in my parish's perpetual adoration chapel Which is the best thing for an angsty teenager to be able to go at 2 a.m to complain to god about girl drama But I senior year of high school I sat there and I just daydream What would it be like 10 years 15 years down the road as a husband and father? And that was the peak of natural happiness for me. I thought all right. I'm done daydreaming Like I love that that is what I'm drawn to But I took the risk of daydreaming about priesthood as well and I thought 10 years 15 years down the road What would it be like to be a parish priest? It was as if I tapped into a deeper reservoir of joy than I knew I had It was not only that is great, but that is the great that I was made for And what was beautiful is that I had people who guided me in learning to deepen my prayer life If I had the opportunity for that in our adoration chapel What one thing I love that you mentioned Dan the the high calling program For someone who's terrified of commitment, which is most people today It's this beautiful low commitment thing It's something that you do have to commit yourself to but it's not the same as the commitment of moving to a different state entering into a seminary Being on that poster having some of that pressure on you instead It's a place where I mean guys are comfortable in front of their screens That's where they spend most of their time And here in a comfortable place they can learn How to deepen that prayer life that there are some guys that We've sent through the program that this was the first time that they had A an introduction to what prayer really is they didn't necessarily get it in their families They didn't hear it preached about quite that much and then here they're able to dive deeply into it and learn from the spiritual masters So I think it's it's a good way to respond to the young man of today You know you described perfectly one of the I think the great benefits of the high calling program of in one sense we're helping to pair pair guys for seminary and in a in a From a standpoint of going from maybe Even just out of high school or or minimal college or whatever it is to going to quite a rigorous level of academic study Learning new methods of prayer like the brevery plus mental prayer Learning to deal with all the things that they're coming. So it's a it's a ramp to to that But I think what you describe what I love what you just said is it's also I'm it's it's a mechanism that mitigates the fear And the angst because as you said I want to emphasize The guys who come into our program are not going directly into seminary They're going into live online formation with us with a whole bunch of other guys. They can see and talk to As you said, they're comfortable on the screen. That's their life And so it feels very safe For them to explore because some guys, you know Joe and I have talked about two categories of guys like that cover maybe 80 percent of Men discerning the priesthood one guy is I'm in I'm going Just show me what to do. The other guy is I'm scared. I think I'm called right, you know That's I think a bigger group. I don't know you guys can correct me if I'm wrong so that another Another extension of the high calling program is To welcome guys into a conversation Before they talk to a vocation director. We don't want to circumvent at all But one if if a guy won't talk to a director, but he will talk to us We want him to talk to us, right if he'll talk to you Michael brother Michael We want him to talk to you But if he's still too nervous because he thinks that you have this magic power To suck him into a call or take away all of his all of his, you know, all of his willpower and you know Make him a priest We we're working on this very exciting portion of vocation development, which is we're very good at the digital world We're very good at reaching people digitally. It's all it's what we do We know we can find guys on their phones. We can find them in instagram We can find them, you know through through those means and say, hey, would you like to have a conversation? There's no obligation. I'm not a vocation director. I know some but you know, that's up to you We'll we'll talk and we'll steer you the right way. So that's another aspect of why I think our Our work is so complementary to your work Now and I mean you you you said it and we've heard it a lot I want to go back to your experience Because what I what we're going to do After in this webinar for everyone who's attending We're going to give you an opportunity to join in this thing this great movement of turning the tide So we get rid of all those stupid zeros of ordinations in the diocese, right? And so we're going to give you A prayer that you can join us in praying We're going to give you a list of things you can do So you've already heard some of them. I'll list them Eucharistic adoration personal encouragement Imagine yourself as a priest ask a guy. Have you ever considered it? You know, we're going to give you like an act a punch list For all those who are not, you know, who maybe who are moms and dads or imparices or whatever So you can put that, you know in your missile or have that around with you and figure out what you can do But another thing folks can do that is a little, you know, unfortunately Has a controversial edge to it. I won't start there, but were you were you an altar server father? Yes, yes not non-stop growing up, but There were periods and then I wasn't then I was but it's certainly As I started thinking about it more I was drawn more toward the altar as well, right and it and it's kind of It's sad that you don't see as many Older like teenage aged Young men That can mentor the younger ones and the younger ones look up to them It seems like far too often we just delegate altar serving to kind of When you're from first communion age up until maybe 12 or 13 And young boys want to look up to older boys And that that mentorship is is somewhat absent. And I think It didn't play the biggest role in my personal vocation Like growing up looking up to the other ones But I knew that the more I thought of priesthood the more I was drawn to the altar And I don't think I'm alone in that Yeah, Joe how what's I don't know if you have the data. I know we're collecting a lot of data to learn. Yeah So that we can help really combat this challenge. How many guys Commonly have been altar servers who are coming through our program The percentage is high the exact number. I actually had it written down here So there were 96 guys last year and 73 or 74 of them when acid altar serving had a very important role Wow, because because of what we were talking about earlier It eased them into this This wondering this imagining this daydreaming, right? I just as a caveat my home parish Um You talked about this mentorship program father michael the pastor there established that And as it turns out from that mentorship There was a number of priests who came from that men who went on to the seminary And ultimately were ordained and I do think that that's a powerful thing um I mean when when young men I say young really young and old men tell me that they They first started thinking about the priesthood When they were altar serving Um, there's nothing controversial about that to me. It's it's pretty straightforward It's pretty simple This is a it's a good and healthy thing and it should be encouraged You know to have men there at the altar. It's a beautiful beautiful thing and I could not echo you enough Father michael to talk about um teenage altar servers. There's something about that Myself having a teenager and two boys and how important that is It means a lot. It goes a long long way So I want to talk about the controversy side for a minute. I'll give a story So my wife was a catholic school principal she uh was at a School where all the altar servers were girls And she went to the priest and said father We have young men. I know who will do this but because Women girls develop faster than men. They can talk faster They're you know, they're a little more assertive that sort of thing As soon as you put a girl in the lineup Or there's a dominant number of girls in the lineup The guys will start to opt out and they'll disappear But I promise you if you let me put young men they will keep coming guess what happened The guys kept coming and they did fine. They were great So and then you know and she said look That's there's only you know of these two only one can become a priest So why aren't we given this opportunity to young men? And I would say this, you know, I'm not dealing with The controversy of it Or my views of that it doesn't really matter my most catholics are in ordinary form parishes around the united states I I I loathe all these conversations about things that you know That that have no real practical benefit. This one does No matter how you look at it if you want a priest. I mean look, I'll say this another way Not too long ago A hundred parishes got letters from their bishop In a diocese in the united states that their parish was being closed 100 parishes closed I mean, I want to say it. I want to I want to yell it. So how about this? Um, no parish or why don't we help this vocations issue? Why aren't we helping why aren't we giving to our vocations program? Why aren't we asked why aren't we going instead of looking at father michael and going? Oh, what a pity There's not enough faces How common is that I mean that that really kind of actually irritates me Get off your rear and do something about it. You know You noticed it that means you have a responsibility to do something about it Do you want a letter that your parish is closing? I mean think about it. All right Go ahead Yeah, so I think uh The the first thing that people need to do Is believe that god's still calling young men Because I think that there might be This lack of belief there That god is calling. It's just we need to create an environment where they can answer that call Whether that be rethinking Who is serving and how much we're investing into the altar server program Whether we have some kind of a mentorship program at the parish There are so many practical things that we can do but the spiritual takes precedence over the practical It sets the tone and do we believe in this time of crisis that god is truly calling men I I have to go back to our lady of sorrows here Our lady of sorrows in her deepest grief What was she for the church? She was the church's hope at that moment. Yeah She was like a sanctuary candle in a dark church At that moment the darkest day the world has ever seen that the foot of the cross Mary was the one that had hope And I was reflecting today at mass the the gospel one of the gospel um options is The giving of john to mary of mary to john Christ from the cross in the darkest period of salvation history And that that that darkest moment Gave the church her first priest In the beloved john Right because mary is that great model of the church and From the cross so in this moment of crisis and darkness Where we could have despaired Christ gave One of the first priests to mary And how beautiful that he's still in this point of crisis giving priests. He's still calling But every single one of us has the the responsibility if mary is the model of the church receiving this priest john Young guy still needs a lot of work to do In fact, he's kind of a seminarian aura priest. All right because this is like he's still in development We need to model that to have some hope even in the midst of our sorrow And to think how are we receiving the priest that god is giving us And how are we trying to call that out of young men? The and I think we will give suggestions here But the spirit of god is moving and so many of the people that are watching this You might have ideas that are better than what any of us could come up with But they're not going to come unless you believe that god is calling someone at your parish You may have not met him yet. He may not know it. You may not know it You might not meet him for another two three years, but you won't see him Unless you believe that god is still calling If you believe you will see him and you will do something you will say something you will help you will encourage some family God be praised. I do think there's hope. I believe in I believe in good, you know priests vocation directors like you I see You know, we've never met before I've met a number of the vocation directors I you you have you exude the virtue of hope And I and I love that. I mean that's that's what young men need to see is I love my priesthood I love following god The high calling program joe has had a big impact On helping guys, I don't know which you two would be better to ask this question to but Can you give some specific examples of? How how we're doing that once we get a young man in our hands to care for that is Is is discerning the priesthood? Yeah, I'll share briefly and certainly for the mic But you've had men go to the program and you've shared with me some of your experiences. So, you know, you have something to share too, but um In the past and we've talked about the importance of of healing and that's certainly something to spotlight that men come to us as prisoners of fear But I would actually say before that more so prisoners of shame Often and I'm not going to go into a psychology of it but often when you really think about it fears a consequence of shame insecurity and What I've seen in the high calling program Is essentially the man opening up To reconciliation opening up to Something new and beautiful A lot of guys come to us. They've they've heard something. That's why they've come to us But they lack this interior freedom But by virtue of slowly nurturing Uh, you know god work in their life through revelation and in scripture and and the saints And the beauty of our faith they slowly begin to open up To to what god has in store for them, which is a freedom And they begin to wrestle with the things that they've been struggling with the shames that they've That that they've had to deal with for the past 15 20 in some cases 30 years and they find Freedom they discover freedom in christ and so They may come to us from Broken exterior structures And with that a collapsed interior freedom But they leave A saying yes to god And suddenly their exterior structures. There's a sense of order. There's a sense of interior peace And so I would say they've claimed a new freedom That is quintessential The other thing is they've come to understand That life is a struggle and grace Right while they may have taken a huge step in the process of healing and reconciliation They've also come to appreciate the words of august and that life is a struggle and grace We've already used the word hero That to become a hero to climb the top of the mountain You're gonna fall you're gonna get dirty You're gonna stub some toes you're gonna open up some wounds But you want to know what i'm still gonna i'm still gonna climb And that climb is one of grace And part of that climb is what it means to be a man of celibate love To enter into the mystery of sacrifice and to enter into the mystery of christ's own celibacy as an offering to the father They internalize this stuff. They They chew on it. They pray with it They also encounter other men who are involved in this state in this same struggle the same beautiful adventure the same beautiful journey And they're encouraged by that. I remember one young man told me boy Just being around these other guys This has been an unexpected grace. He said an unexpected grace I was in this orientation room two nights ago. I know father michael you were there three nights ago and there's 75 80 men Just excited to see 75 other men asking the same questions They come from 75 and 80 different backgrounds But there's a common pursuit and that pursuit is holiness and they've come to understand even from the outset that Holiness is the means by which to discern and the end to the answer Right because holiness is to walk in the presence of god and they encounter this they see this they experience this Are there points of consolation for these men or rather excuse me desolation? Yes, of course there are But they do experience Consolation they do experience that interior piece and it just goes a long long way I I have received five six phone calls this week From men who were programmed last year One man called me yesterday. He was in tears. I'm gonna get emotional just thinking about it. He was just in tears And what he told me I can't get into all of it, but the essence of it was He said dr. J. I had no idea I had no idea and I want to be honest with you There are points last year that I was really he said pissed off a occasion for making me do this program and and I didn't fully understand this professor, but I've I've gone back to this subject matter and I've prayed with it Again and again and I I find myself In a far better place than I could ever imagine And praise jesus a because he was honest with me and I love that right? He was completely transparent, which means I think it was being honest with himself and He was struggling in grace and he was at a point in his journey where He called me and said hey thank you and and I'm a better praying man for it and he's just thanking god and in the ways in which god is blessed him But it is just exciting to see some of that Unfolding the conversations that I that I've had and and how these men are released from Their shamefulness You know, they've been invited to christ into their wilderness and they've they've allowed christ to claim that warrant To to claim that place that they were hiding for so long and now they're free And you're free to say yes, and it is it because You know folks might wonder well, what do you teach these guys? You know we teach them about Uh About matters of sexuality about Internet use, you know gaming all this other junk But I but I the way that we teach it Is it's an invitation to healing? So that these kinds of encounters can happen right because a lot of guys come and they think Well, I'm I I think I'm called but man am I? You know, I they you know the self loathing because of the You know, maybe they have an addiction to porn or they're struggling Whatever they're struggling with or even just not ever resolved some of the things they've done in their past So they don't even necessarily know because catholic culture is so weak right now They've never heard from somebody like father bocansky or father. Sean Kilcolly or whatever say hey, you can be free Right. It might be the first time they've ever heard from a credible voice There's hope for you and then they go well I'm I'm and I guess I'm saying it but I'm asking the question. Does that mean there's hope for me therefore Oh, there's hope for me in the priesthood father. Michael. You have a look you have a glow on your face for a moment How's that? How's that? You just use the magic hope word, right? I think it gives there's even hope in just seeing Going back to what you had mentioned seeing 70 other guys that are doing this because often This is the one man in an entire diocese who is pursuing this he might feel Like totally isolated all of his classmates are doing something different Sometimes his family is vehemently against it But he has this tug and to be part of a community of others who have felt that tug Is is something that that gives incredible strength to the man, but then also I have to confess right now. I audit some of these courses sometimes after Afterwards I watch the videos because this is good stuff that in the course of I was in seminary for eight years I I went to the josephine and the north american college and both of them. I'm so grateful for they did a great job There's stuff that I'm learning from the high calling program, but I'm like I wish I heard this 10 years ago I wish I heard Because it's it's some of that foundational stuff that in a healthier culture We could have presumed upon men learning in their families, right? They don't it's not a healthy culture We have to now provide a lot of that. What does it mean to be a man? How can you be healed in christ? How do you develop the basics of a prayer life? What is the priesthood? What is love? What is celibate love all of those things? The men are invited to Think about and pray about from day one instead of having a crisis three four years into priesthood and think wait I never actually Dissern this well like we can build a foundation for them from day one asking those tough questions and receiving the gift Of celibate love not just the sacrifice of it, but the gift Of that particular charism So, yeah, I I think the subject matters great, but I might be biased because I ought it Joe I don't I want to do something real quick and then sure sure So we're we're now where I think we're an hour in I want to make sure I give If folks have to cut out I want to give them a url that they can join with us in prayer spiritualdirection.com forward slash vocations spiritualdirection.com Forward slash vocations I'd ask our producer just to check double check that out to make sure that's right but If you would like to begin to join with us in prayer for this program You can see on father michael's face one. He loves the priesthood And and and the way that he talks about in his heart and he knows the power of the program He knows what it takes to get guys moving to the priesthood And and and he's the he's the perfect kind of priest for us to work with We really get each other in what we can do. Oh, there it is on the screen spiritualdirection.com forward slash vocations But he we all still need prayer, right? We need people praying every day and what we'd like to do Is get an army of folks together Who will daily pray for this great mission so that we can turn the tide because remember God has desired ends and chosen means Your prayers are the chosen means to bring about God's desired ends and if you fail to pray The the graces that would have come through you do not come So we want you to join with us in prayer spiritualdirection.com forward slash vocations And then also what we'll do and I uh, we'll send you Out of this webinar in the coming uh days or or next week or so A list of uh things that you can do to support your vocation director That you can do in your parish that you personally can do simply looking for that guy Who uh, who that young man that looks like he's paying attention at mass and saying hey Have you ever considered the priest or whatever it is? So we'll get that we'll get that stuff to you. We'll keep you up to date on the program as well So that you know the progress so joe I I want to make sure I don't want to Lose where you were before but I want to make sure so we talked about We help guys in their discernment. So we so we work side by side hand in hand We're a team with vocation directors to help guys in discernment, right? Yeah, um, yeah, then there's a new program we're doing as an extension of this Where we're training priests to be spiritual directors to men Who are uh heading into seminary you want to talk about that for a minute? Yeah, so we have uh, we're launching here next week a spiritual direction program that is that as you said dan is training priests priests who uh want to be formed and the Art of spiritual direction that I know so many are familiar with here at the avala foundation The particular charism here of this program Dan and and father michael is he has sent us a couple priests that are that have applied and are going to be a part of the program. Um To help mend discern so These priests And and all of them are desiring more formation spiritual direction They're going to get that just the the nuts and bolts fundamentals and objectives of spiritual direction But also all of those issues that arise in discernment We have father boniface six and and father dens mcmanus teaching these modules These these modules that look at the issues that that arise and and men who are discern to call to the priesthood and Um already the conversations that I've had with some of these priests. They're so excited. Certainly, uh, father boniface The whole team of faculty is excited to be a part of this and the big thing is, you know, they get all this formation You know last year 50 plus guys had spiritual directors, but that means 40 or so didn't Um, and so there was a lot of mentoring going on between me and the guy, you know and and I don't mind that You know, uh, my wife had something to say about that so So 95 job or 99 gig so anyhow, um What's important is is they're getting that internal form, right? They're getting they're taking that they're able to take all that formation They're receiving and they're able to enter into that space of the internal form And and really begin to integrate on a human level what that means for them And so we're really excited about the program because this is going to allow the guys to go even deeper Um, and so these diocese are essentially building up an inventory of spiritual directors To help these men discern And so it's another part of the program that again is just gonna allow the guy to Go deeper into sermon to solidify His call, you know, just bring more clarity And I couldn't be any more excited Very I couldn't be any more excited and you sent two guys our way father michael Yes, and uh, there might be a third late applicant, but You're good at recruiting I'm my best awesome So joe, um, I I I don't want to push things along, you know or conclude too quickly or you know, if we have things There's so much we could talk about but one other thing I want to tell people about Is this new initiative? where we are spending, uh, we've raised a good bit of funds that need a lot more to Find guys in the digital space And propose the priesthood to them Because that's where they are, you know, I think some, uh, dioceses get this The younger the priest in who is the vocation director He also needs to have some experience which is helpful But the younger the vocation director is the more attuned he is to the to the culture and the radical culture shift we're going But the older the diocese and the older the vocation director sometimes it can be Pretty challenging to to to understand where the heads of these young men are um, and what we're doing to help mitigate that is develop a vocation's outreach program Where we're going in through instagram in through these apps that they use And saying hey, do you think you have a calling? Getting them as quick as we we can into a conversation with joe or his team And then As as well then asking. Okay. Well, what diocese are you in? Oh, well, you know Your vocation director is a fantastic guy's name. His name is father michael Are you would you like us? Are you ready to talk to him yet? You need to talk more. Do you need to pray? Whatever it is? So it's just that another Layer, if you will out there Of mitigating the i'm afraid or i'm distracted Mitigating as best we can You know the lack of someone saying hey, have you thought about the priesthood? And and bring guys in and Super excited about this program. I don't know joe if I did it justice, but you you have more Yeah, it's a program that is going to meet the guy where he's at bottom line And it's going to take what we've already been doing Um on a whole new level just uh two weeks ago I got a call from a young man We had three conversations and I was able to introduce him to a vocation director that uh I may have had one conversation with about a year and a half ago And he was ecstatic to to find out that someone is willing to take this program And he was more than willing to support Him and so that kind of thing um certainly excites vocation directors, but it's a I think it's a great service to the church. Um guys Uh, I want you to discern and anonymity. That's kind of what father michael was I was speaking to earlier so to just uh, You'll slowly invite them into the deeper conversation and to get them to a point to where they're ready to take that Step to say okay, I need to put myself out there and what that means So this website, um, certainly is going to be a part of that a part of that That uh that answer and when you say website, I want to just be clear for folks That's old people speak for a certain kind of digital format, but it's actually built for phones So yeah, yes, you can see it on a bigger website, but it's actually built for phones and when the guys log in So here's the cool thing We have 97 guys And so I called joe and I said joe What kind of social media did they use and he says, I don't know. Let me find out so he goes. That's the guys And we know we don't have to guess we have like this this this This you know ready made a consulting group to tell us exactly how to reach them and I said joe tell me What are the kinds of guys like what are the fundamental disposition to guys and then he goes and he has conversations He says well scared and and excited. Okay. So great. Well, then let's build a website out of website. That's old guy speak Let's build a phone app That when they log when they open it it says What does it say joe? What are the two? What does it say exactly? Do you remember? I'm putting on this Am I called to the priesthood and I want to be a priest Yeah, I want to be a priest or am I called captures both of the types They click, you know, click on it and then it take as quickly as we can To get their information and then it helps them to have a conversation So we can steer them and and some are of course called to religious life as well So but wherever they're they're feeling called to As soon as they're comfortable enough because of the coaching that we give them We want to get them with a vocation director. Hopefully in the high calling program So we're super excited. We really one of the reasons we wanted to do this webinar Was that we need you, you know, we need your prayers. We need your financial support If somebody came to me today And said I want to give you a million dollars Could you could you could you use that and tell me exactly how and tell me what the likely outcome is? Guess what the answer is. Yes. Yes, and yes I could tell you we could target dioceses. We could target geographical regions Whatever it is our only limitation is twofold one your prayers Which is more important than money And two is your support your financial support So if you want to help us go out to spiritualdirection.com forward slash vocations Joe, where else do you want to go with this? I don't want to cut us off. I don't want to Yeah Yeah, I think there's questions that that that await us. I suppose you asked me a question I never answered earlier, but as far as you know, what the guy's here I think there's something to the high calling program that I've come to appreciate you know You know from the first year of second year to now is that Our professors They they love what they teach. So it's just not the content You know, they are agents of of healing by by virtue of just their presence And I think that's a huge piece to this And of course, we're blessed to have the professors we have You know the personalities that that are More than than excited to be a part of of what we do And so that's a part of the healing for the guys That's a part of the healing for the guys The other thing before we get to the questions um Dan that that I'm mindful of and Is how we look at numbers, you know, you would post those numbers and the numbers speak to The the hard truth, right for sure, but at the same time When I look at numbers, I think about quantity versus quality, you know Paul benin 16th said before the church it grows again. It's gonna first get small Right and yeah, this reality that um You know, yeah, we need to Maybe the the the leaves need to wither away before there's a new spring time To be present that truth because maybe a diocese has big numbers But maybe there's a sickness in the diocese that's not being shared or maybe the diocese has small numbers But in fact, they actually because of the groundswell of the people of god You know doing something about it They just didn't say to say Brother Michael. Hey, why isn't there more faces? They are actually doing something about it. There's vocation That are quite healthy, but we don't see that yet per se um And so I say that because to our listening view in audience Dan, you know, uh, wherever your diocese is at and numbers Um understand that god is calling you here now tonight to do something All right, and first and foremost that can be Loving your family engaging your parish Looking around you when you go to the adoration chapel I was in the adoration chapel a couple days ago and there's a 21 year old A young 21 year old a young man reading dark night of the soul That caught my attention and how did you know he was 21 years old? I talked to him afterwards I knew that I didn't know it but I knew I couldn't help but we talked and he's thinking about the priest that we had a great conversation But man, I saw that I was like, oh my gosh, this young man's reading dark night of the soul He was actually understanding something about wow, but uh, anyhow To just be aware be present. Um, whatever your numbers are whatever it looks like don't let it bother you um As father Michael said so beautifully, you know be the hope You know be the hope Our lady shares and our sufferings all of our sufferings are her sufferings and so if we offer to her our sufferings for the cause of Unvocations for priestly vocations She will do wonders because as as we talked about in the beginning. She has a particular law for priests And she I'm sure rebels in our in our interest in prayers before we get to some of the questions can I just uh make a little point on This new initiative that that I didn't know about but sounds awesome because traditionally traditionally Vocation director is not the first person that A young man goes to There are so many others that he should have been benefiting from relationships with before he comes to the vocation director Yeah, uh, and this is another way of reaching them and um Either of you. Do you know the name of uh, Pope John Paul II's vocation director when he was applying for seminary? Oh gosh, we had that we did a webinar you got um, Simone Rizcala who I think you may know for the Michael. Anyway, she did a Didn't she do a I don't remember his name. I've never heard his name. I have no idea who the guy. Oh, yes Yeah, yeah, you're making your point You know, I do know is yanta ranowski Right who was his spiritual mentor a great catholic layman And he I think would be a beautiful patron for this diocese because it or not for this diocese for this initiative. Oh, wow It is the church Taking the responsibility to do something about it to reach men where they're at because I I have on my instagraming The people are investing more money into selling me socks Then we are investing ourselves Inviting men into pursuit of god preacher preacher And and this is a concrete way I think that we'll be able to because because there's a great disparity. Some dioceses are doing that most We don't know even where to start. I'm a relatively young guy So I should be the social media whiz. We have zero social media presence And I don't think I'm alone there and so how great would it be if across the board? There were an initiative that helped the dioceses that are doing great and the dioceses that are doing terribly Doesn't matter. There is this uh, this group or this initiative the spiritual movement that's helping men Wherever they are and where they spend the majority of their time Um, I yeah, I'm just very excited about this. So we can get to the questions But I just wanted to share that excitement. Thank you very much. All right. Jordan. What do you got? Uh, so father michael, what's the most detrimental thing to a man? Figuring out as a vocation. I I think it means uh, well, I mean, you know, but what hinders His discernment maybe that's the way of saying it the most I think uh shallow spirituality I think there's just men have not been taught to pray So I think that that hurts and then discouragement from from others A lot of Families that maybe even 15 years ago would have been over the moon at the thought of a vocation now There's such an erosion of trust with the church the institutional church. They say like no, maybe not And so guys aren't pursuing it because they don't have that Interior strength through prayer and they don't have exterior support through People encouraging them, you know, if you've got a guy you think's called and you know, you think he's struggling I wrote a book for young men And women actually when we were in college ministry, it's called into the deep finding peace of prayer And it's we teach it actually in the high calling program And uh, that might be a good way to get a guy move in the right direction It's just even giving him You can you could read the book in an hour, but it'll teach him how to encounter jesus in the gospels In a very powerful way The the other thing father it comes to mind too is just getting caught in a cycle of mortal sin habitual mortal sin and certainly Helping guys understand the power of the proper understanding of the sacrament of reconciliation. For instance, not using that as a psychological Balm but actually as a means to both be forgiven and given the strength to overcome the sin um Taking advantage of spiritual direction Uh, it's somebody that can help them get past that and the shame that relates to it like like Joe was talking about But uh, so you so the number one you're saying joe, I don't know you have something to add to that Yeah, I would just echo the both of you really and and uh highlight The reality of sexual addiction That that is I would say At number one, but if a man has a prayer life Um and and someone working with him. He can break free from those chains Yep chains, but we're talking about the phone and it just takes it's just right here, right and and You know, we all know here what what that looks like what that means But it is to say that is very real and certainly detrimental Because then of the shame and then ultimately fears we talked about it leads to And and this is something we you know, all of us here need to be praying for that that men can break free from from that addiction because it is it's detrimental and and Men can break free from it and and they have I know uh, dan your son jordan does work in this area And uh It's yeah, it's something we need to be praying for you can send guys out Just did you mention to do the harder thing on instagram? Uh, they have a men's group out there that helps one another to keep accountable get holy uh next question Is there a program for fathers of families? So that boys could be groomed unfortunate word from young to formation To the event they have a calling that they would respond to so uh one that I really like uh is called fraternus and it's a uh They helped to build a culture in the church where in a parish where you have the dads and the young men who are uh learning virtue priests are involved They rough house they have annual, you know manly events where they're you know river rafting or fishing or hiking or whatever But it's fraternus, uh father. Do you have any out there that you know about? um No, I'm familiar with fraternus a little bit but I don't know too many But I think sometimes we're waiting for a program to teach us the basics. True. So the the basics is What was john paul the great? What was one of the things that helped him develop his prayer life watching his father pray? And praying with his father Uh, I think it would be great if every diocese had a great program But we can't wait for those to happen instead. We do the basics of Have a relationship with your son Where he can know what it means to be a catholic man know what it means to confront struggles and challenges He sees you going to confession. And so he goes to confession as well. He sees you praying so he prays as well And then what's beautiful is that if you do that and then maybe you have One friend is also the father of a son and he starts doing that as well The spirit of god might move and the two of you might start something where there was nothing before Yeah, awesome. Awesome. I love what you're saying too. I think in catholic culture, unfortunately, there's this Wait till the priest gets it right wait till the bishop gets it right You know, why isn't the priest doing this? Why isn't the bishop doing that? Why don't you get off your rear end to do something about it? You know, I it drives me a little crazy. That may sound harsh. I could use better words but You know, we need to do something if we're going to turn the tide here Next question jordan, I was sent to a seminary right out of eighth grade and left my sophomore year Do you recommend going to seminary right out of eighth grade? So this was much more common in the past when you could rely on in some ways a healthier Culture and where it was common to to have boarding schools and so you would have a A minor seminary for high school those hardly even exist in the u.s. Anymore I think there might be one or two north carolina. I think Maybe developing something but I I think that would be very much case by case and usually An eighth grader of today is not in a position to be able to discern in a healthy manner at that time Uh, yeah Yeah, I mean, I think you hit it on it there The we have delayed adolescence. It's a huge problem in our culture also Which affects the vocations crisis is guys men, you know, I was working at 13. I think Uh had a job, you know, and and I uh, that's your hard press to find that sort of attitude today where Well, I want to buy a bike so I go to work, you know Rather than just having it purchased for me. So Uh, I think we have one last question And uh, go ahead I'm a director of rca. I have had several young men come through my class. We're interested in the priesthood With the high calling program be something to mention in rca Yeah, give me my number Simply put in and honestly it's uh, Uh You know, I I I said this when we were at the summit this past summer dan to all the people who were coming up to me Sign your name put your number there because you are going to be my ambassadors, right? And I in My former life before the avalanche, too I oversaw an apostolate and I would train rca directors and I was deeply involved in rca and Many men, you know coming into the church experience a conversion They're on fire and and the priesthood is on the forefront of their minds. So so yeah We've we have quite a few guys who have been who have come to the church recently who are With us who have been with us in the past too. So and uh, what's right father What's good with high calling for that is the the church in our wisdom likes to wait a little while after a man is Has that initial zeal to be able to To prove true that this is a call and it's not just the result of initial excitement So he wouldn't be able to enter into seminary right away But a program specifically designed to help men discern and learn the rules of discernment That seems like the perfect place for him. God be praised Well, that's our last question. So I think we can wrap it up I want to send folks out to spiritualdirection.com forward slash vocations and I'm specifically asking you The number one thing I'm asking you for is to pray for us in this program I believe That we have the ability To to significantly in impact And turn the tide what we need are faithful people praying every day will send you a prayer To join with us daily We'll send you some examples of things you can do very practical in your parish And also if you have the ability to support us in this We did raise sufficient funding to get the phone app done, which will be I think delivered next week I saw an email today that they made all the changes, right joe Yeah, uh, so that means probably two to three weeks Software development, yeah, yeah Right. So that it will launch soon. I should be careful with that, right? I know better it will launch soon and then we we we have spent a lot of funds Tuning our ability To effectively reach we've been doing working on this these two tracks of the new phone app plus Being able to reach digitally young men. We've been working on that for about six months But we do need funds to help essentially get it out to push out all that we've developed out into the world and if it's You know with father michael and his diocese and we're ready to do a test there We we have the funds to to uh, reach all those young men and it costs money It's paid advertising is what it is to reach all those young men through mostly instagram because that's where most of them are on Into their phone inviting them into a conversation And then help us helping them to make their decision and get with a vocation director We partner with a vocation director. We get him a spiritual director We get him on the path to healing So as they come into seminary, we don't lose them on the way And if they've got a legit call we don't lose them while they're in And we don't lose them after they're ordained because there was junk. They didn't deal with before It's not perfect. I'm not saying this is all magic But I am saying it is new and it hasn't been done before this way Uh time tested wisdom of the church Is the foundation of everything we do. We're totally magisterium faithful But we also understand how to leverage technology god be praised and we're doing that in 90 countries in formation So we're we've been doing it since 2013. We have about 600 students a quarter priest religious laity We're good at it, but we do need your help. So spiritualdirection.com forward slash Vocations last word from either of you and then father a few to close this prayer Praise be jesus christ Um, I would say just on this feast of our lady of sorrows to entrust This whole initiative to her to realize that The christ the high priest was entrusted to her So we need to entrust all of our priests to her all of the priestly vocations out there. We need to entrust to her In a in a special way because she Has that particular love for the priesthood. So I would say Not only pray in general for All of these good things and for vocations was specifically to Our lady So with that in mind we can pray And the father and the son and the holy spirit on man. Oh jesus. We thank you so much for This time that we have had to be able to reflect On the work that you are doing and are The invitation that you extend to us to participate in that work in whatever little way Or big way Lord, we trust that you have chosen us for this time. You have chosen us as your instruments You didn't have to but you chose to out of love and so we pray that we May have a firm faith in that that faith may give us hope We may live lives of love As instruments and helping Those men that you are calling To be able to follow your will we ask this through the intercession Of that mother that you gave us in that moment of grace sorrow But that moment of great hope as we pray hail mary full of grace the lord is with thee bless the earth And bless the spirit of the bible Holy mary mother god pray for us Now the hour of our death The lord be with you and with your spirit now mighty god bless you the father and the son and the holy spirit Amen yon tiranofsky pray for us Yes, I love that we are going to make him patron saint We just have to be able to we have to be able to pronounce it. That's the Thank you for your presence father michael tonight. I just uh, I I deeply appreciate your presence and I just want to let you know that Your yes, and your priesthood means a lot to me. It really does on a personal level. I calling it on a personal level Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. This is such a joy. All right. God bless you guys