 Hello, my name is Taylor Mac, I'm interviewing a lot of HARP artists, that's the Hear Art Center resident artist program, and talking to them about their projects, we're doing it for HowlRound, and if you don't know about HARP, HARP is this wonderful program that here has had for many years, I started off at the program, in the program, and they give you space, they give you many years to workshop your piece, many opportunities, the understanding was that artists need time to make their stuff, especially generating artists, and time to meditate on what they're doing, and time with audiences, so instead of that kind of three week regional theater, get it in and get it out, kind of process, those of us who are making our own work need a different kind of process. So here came around and said, well, here's an organization that's gonna help you do that, and you can model it however you want to, and they've been doing really good for many years, and these are two of the HARP artists that are making a piece, and I'm gonna let you introduce yourselves, and also introduce your piece, why don't we do it that way? Okay, yeah, so I start, so I'm Sachiho Takahashi, and then I'm a composer and then for both for sound and visual. Nugammin? My name is Nugammin, I'm a musician, I play Korean traditional windy instruments, so I studied traditional music in Korea, and I'm exploring more like new music, experimental sounds, and I started to collaborate with Sachiho last year during pandemic, so we are very happy to be part of, you know, here Artist Residence program, but it's been a challenge because we were not, yeah, able to access the plays, and we were not actually, you know, meet in person, so we were doing kind of, you know, virtual collaborations, and we filmed at the theater at the moment for, you know, presentation last year, November, but it was really great opportunity for us to be able to, you know, collaborate with here, our center. And let me just ask about your piece you're making, you're making a, well, how would you describe it, a soundscape? I know it's about emotions, and why don't you give us a little information about it? Okay, so we are primarily calling it like music theater, but it's not really traditional sense that we are both musicians, so like our starting point is music, and also like kind of we are from Asia, and sort of the idea of this project is kind of digging out those emotional heritage from the traditional sound and storytelling, like music, and kind of sort of using those material to create a contemporary take on on the emotions. But mainly it's sound, but actually the other aspect is we have visual components to it, and we have a live projection, which I have been doing for a long time. So when you say live projection, yeah, describe that, what is that? So live projection is basically, I have been developing this art form called Microscopic Live Cinema Theater, for kind of more than 10 years. So what I have been doing was that I have a very small tabletop, basically tabletop, and then I manipulate small objects on this tabletop using the video camera and the project live onto a screen, like enlarged, so you're a little bit like a visual folio artist, does that make sense? Yeah, sort of like a live animation, if it's actually kind of like I'm sort of in the category of the puppetry as well, New York puppetry community, just because I manipulate objects, but so the thing is, it's done in live, and then also the kind of the things I do is a magnification of the small object, small material, so like what is my material, some, if you go very deep into this kind of the details of the object, somehow I found some emotion in there sometimes. And then that was kind of like also the, how I came to this project. So okay, so like there's a sound component, because my musician, I play instrument as well, traditional instrument, as well as I create electro-acoustic sound trucks. Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that too, but finish your thought. Okay, so the first of all, okay, so this project is music, live music, and live visuals that I manipulate this thing. And also we are going to have some sort of object manipulation in space. So it's much kind of a bigger, actual object moving in the space or somehow doing something in the space. We will be working with some puppeteers. And then also the other component we are thinking is lighting. Because lighting, traditionally, I don't know, but it's kind of in the theater, usually it's kind of like a, okay, so story and additional lighting. But lighting could be a very big component to express some sort of emotion. Yeah, have you talked to Shia, Maria? No. Oh, he's also a harp artist. Lame is their company and he designs and they use light in their shows as a character, really, or as a scene partner. They're very, they think of the lighting. I think I've heard Yahema describe it as a, as composition, that the lighting is part of the composition. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's, yeah. We're having a conversation with him. He's quite a shirt. Exactly, it's kind of. And also from Japan. Yeah, I know them. Yeah, Himeera and Shige. Yeah, yes. So the lighting to be almost like, yeah, the same as the music component or visual component and then lighting could be mingled to become one composition, basically. And then the other thing is we won't probably using so much language in this piece. So it's sort of abstract, but it's not entirely like a live concert because we will have some sort of abstract storytelling, kind of abstract narrative, I don't know what to call. So there's some sort of trajectory of the story in the piece, but told through all those sound, visual and object movement and lighting. And the songs and the songs themselves are, I mean, please feel free to jump in here. The songs are taken, I know that they're original songs, but they're working off of themes of traditional songs from Japan or Korea, or a mixture of. Yes, actually, we tried to play some traditional song and also we tried to create new song based on storytelling, traditional storytelling. So we had a presentation last year and I brought one Korean traditional tune that I played with my pity, which is bamboo flute, and Sachiou played Japanese traditional storytelling song piece, very traditional piece. And then we actually created one new song based on traditional Korean storytelling, which is kind of a legend and mysterious story. And that has lyrics and dance piece. But we transformed totally, you know, new way with electro-acoustic sound and some competition. So the song is combined, you know, between competition, improvisation and electro-acoustic sound, you know, so it's a whole different different shape. But we used some idea from the traditional storytelling because it is a very interesting way to explore human emotion. If you see, you know, old story from Japan and Korea, you can explore something new, new expression or a new way of emotion, it's pretty new. So that's the song. And has that been a challenge to combine the two cultures? And then in your thinking of how to present it to such a multifaceted culture that the U.S. has? Is that the Japanese culture and Korean culture and squished them together and then presented to even more multifaceted culture? Or is it just, does it have felt natural or is it, you know, what kind of techniques are you using? So it's kind of interesting thing. It's like I met Gamin a few years ago and we started to just, you know, start some kind of like small collaborations. And although we are from, okay, Asia, but it's, of course, it's kind of different, we don't, you know, one country is very different from the other. And then somehow I think actually we are, what we have been doing is like we get to know each other through music, you know, what she plays and what I play. It's kind of like a conversation through art and music. And then I started to understand what's similar and sorry, there's some kind of construction going on. Don't worry about it. What's similar and what's different. And then, you know, ultimately, okay, we can emphasize the differences too, but also there are a lot of like common ground, you know, we are human. And then also, could you describe a couple of the common grounds? Like, yeah, basically, I think actually, you know, it's like, with Gamin and me, like certain actually melodic like structure or like to express certain certain feeling has a similarity because like some of the Japanese traditional music like also came from buyer, you know, China and Korea. So, and then it's now, you know, went into this pop music and then more contemporary music, but it's kind of connected through this kind of content. So it's actually element wise, there are like some of the sounds has very kind of similarity to it, a chord, some similarity to it. So like for this, like, so in some sense, actually, like if we kind of like followed all those routes, maybe we do it also even like it can go to like Europe or, you know, kind of then, you know, it's kind of it's not not not that like disconnected in some sense, even though like for the Western era, like sounds could be boring, but some of the maybe folk songs, like even some some sort of more older, like natives, maybe songs or something like could have like a similarity to it too. So it's I think it's, I don't know, just, yeah, so I think the one addition is that one thing I see like me and the guy, me having come on is that we are, we both play traditional instruments and traditional music, but we are contemporary artists, musicians, so it's like always kind of our interest is almost discovering this new material in all the things so that we can kind of use it for the new creation. Yeah, that's what most that's what a lot of us are doing, a lot of us are just taking all things and, you know, trying to apply them to our our current circumstance. So in a sense, it's actually not that weird and then it doesn't seem weird at all. It seems wonderful. I've listened to some of it. It's like goes right to your bones, I mean, right to your heart too. And so I guess I have that question about, you know, your piece of your taking different emotions and your and your writing pieces about them. And so the question becomes, is it about the emotion or is it unearthing the emotion in the audience or in the players or or some kind of combination of all of that together? I mean, I think we we are kind of, you know, taking journey, emotion. So when we play the music, we we we took some traditional story. So there is a character in the story. So we we we put some emotion. We can you can imagine, you know, how this character, you know, fears about, you know, this happening. And, you know, we we we kind of imagine, you know, the feeling and emotion and we take journey through those characters. And also, I think we when we when we imagine those, you know, character emotion, we also put our emotion, you know, how how would I fear, you know, how would I express those feelings. So that is probably mixed. The original story and our emotion, like a reflection. And that come through some new language. We we play it like, you know, some contemporary sound with electro acoustic, you know, so it's come through new, new, new material, new sound, and that also give audiences to take a journey, their own journey. So they can I we expect audiences. It's experience or they take a journey with their own emotion. So you're not telling them. And now we're playing happiness. Well, you're not saying that you're letting them experience it if they experience it. Yeah, right. Yeah. And OK, now talk to me about electro acoustic. What is electro acoustic? It sounds right on my alley. Electro acoustic music is actually a genre of music. So it's it's I'm not really making the things up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I just never paid attention to it. So it's electric. You probably know more like electro music, right? It's it's kind of digital, you know, sort of processed sound created by mainly computation or like synthesizer or something. Those are electro music. Electro acoustic music has a little bit of, OK, acoustic in it. And historically, it's it's kind of like went back to like a music concrete, so concrete like a concrete music. So like this kind of tradition. So like a lot of things that it's, you know, sorry, like I'm doing the next lecture of this. But so idea of this is so. Before, like a music concrete, basically the the vocabulary of the music was, you know, instrument or voice or like those kind of things was the source of the musical material. But the music concrete basically made the, you know, like a sound like this into the vocabulary of the music. So you you record it, record the different sound in the world. And then you can use those material as a as a part of your musical composition. And then we like electro acoustic music also, you know, it's it's really everybody is doing different things. But it's kind of you process those sound, natural sound. Natural sound is almost like actually natural sounds or has a shape. In this kind of thing, like it's like a sculpting the sound. Yeah, you know, yeah. But then you play, but then you play, you'll play your your instruments along with it. So you'll play these live with the electro acoustic. Right, right. So what I did, what we did for the like a work in progress presentation, our duo that I think we are going to show later is that we recorded like the domains, like instrument sound, my instrument sound. And I processed it to create a new layer of the sound track. So as a sound material, it's actually kind of the same force, but almost creating the kind of contemporary layer to to it. And then creating those it's it's quite I don't know, interesting things we can do with those technique. It's actually all, you know, I'm sitting in front of the computer to create this kind of music. But you can create those the mass of the sound or, you know, kind of very effective, like a vocabulary of the music to create some sort of like, yeah, emotional thing without actually really or just couldn't be purely like a sound, but yeah, and when you're making both of you, when you're making your music and in process with this work, is there an intention for I always kind of talking about it in terms of are you are you intending to or how are you intending to care for the audience or do you not care? Are you just making what you want to make and the audience experiences that how they they make it, how they experience it? So it's a it's a question I think is interesting for a lot of people who are working outside of commercial commercial theater and commercial music is is what's the intention behind it? And and yeah, what are the what are the what drives you to explore what you're exploring? I guess is another way of saying it. Yeah, because when we started to create this project, we were interested in human emotion, but the way of expression is so different. You know, depending on culture, depending on personality, depending on character or what, right? So I was wondering, you know, how, you know, how how different, you know, and some same happening for for many different people and every single people probably have different different way of expression. In culturally, you know, there are different different structure to, you know, express some feeling or, you know. So we were very much curious about, you know, those different different status, different emotion expression. So we were hoping, you know, audiences to experience experience their own journey, no matter what we we we intend or, you know, we try to, you know, express. But we we more, yeah, we more open to, you know, journey, you know, discover like a new, you know, emotional journey that's the actually the goal. Yeah, yeah. So you do, you said you have a goal for your audience, even if it's not that they experience the exact same journey together. You do want them to go through. Yeah. So it's not just you're not just chasing your your your own kind of taste, I guess. No, it's not. It's I would say it's, you know, like, if you have very well composed, very well designed, like a music album or something, you go through the sort of experience, like, you know, if you hear from the first to the end. And then but that's like a kind of the some sort of taste of the artist or like something that they maybe want to come through, like through this album. But actually, you don't really maybe, maybe everybody has a different, different thing, different experience from this thing, but this kind of guided sort of like a guided journey rather than the end of the journey. So like, yeah, we do have some something that we are doing that we will know, but we might not explain it like too much in like beforehand, so that open enough that the people can can enjoy their own journey, but also guide it into the it's not really like, you know, you are going to the sea or sky, okay, we are going to the sky, but like from there, you know, this kind of like, but I think we will have a pretty kind of clear direction that you are you are free to you know, like wander around there. That's kind of your style. Yeah. And at what point you've been working on it for a year now, but COVID is kind of interrupted that. Is that true? That's that's the point in your process? Yes. Yeah. And so and when do you think do you have any kind of sense of when you're going to actually do it? Or are you are you still experimenting? And yeah, you're even with process, better or more materials. So this is our journey to explore and and we're enjoying process, you know, how we dream and how we, you know, collaborate and how we're gonna, you know, bring other material to this project. So this is like long, long process. Yeah. It's a question I've asked a lot of the artists is how much of process is actually the art for you? Or how you know, that is the process part of the art, not just not just because you have to do it in order to make the piece, but is it actually getting together and working as that also the art? And and even playing in the room. It is, I imagine that there's a lot of room for variation every time you play. Is that true? Yes. Oh, yeah. Yes. Yes. Because we started to improvise very beginning. And then we put some composition. So whenever we played, we have different, different sense, different sounds. Yeah. And yeah, that's very interesting part, we can, you know, variate many different ways. It's a fun part of the heart program, I think, is that people can come and see the process, which then becomes part of the art of their experience of the piece, you know, they can come multiple times over many years to see a work be created. And so in that sense, they end up becoming a collaborator in the creation of the piece. It's a fascinating way to work. I want to ask you before we go, just, is there anything that you need right now from the larger community? What do you do? Do you need money? Do you need time rehearsal space care? Do you need attention? Do you need? Do you need stories? Do you need people to? I don't know. Do you need people to bring you flowers? What do you need from the larger community? Um, well, yeah, all of them could be really nice. Yeah, definitely. I think actually, yeah, just like other students, like when when question that I heard something like 2024, like, because of the COVID, it's kind of a little bit of, so I don't know, maybe 2023, 2024, but it's, yeah, that just means there's a lot of time for everyone to check in with what you're making. And then every every, like so much time for people to get interested. And, you know, if they want to send us some anything. But it's more of the things I think our interest here is kind of through this project, like we want to meet people. You know, like, both of us are relatively new to New York City or US. So yeah, part of this our hope through this project is like, you know, creating some community. Yeah, we can share like a background and then also creating some new things, collaborating with some other artists and yeah, I mean, we have we have so much theater and I guess what they call new music in in New York City. And yet it feels like we're in real need of what you both are bringing to the to this. We need we need different sounds and different perspectives. Can I ask one thing to you? Yeah, yeah, please. Because like, I actually never had a chance to saw you're working live. Yeah, I'm looking for I can be like looking forward to the next, you know, live occasion. But I watched your videos. And then you want to work always like, kind of like outside of the box. Right? Yeah, for the most part. Yeah, there's always an element that's outside the box. Sort of actually kind of like, I want to know how sort of like you because you have a you have a heteronym, don't you? I mean, do you know what I just learned this phrase the other day, I guess it's been around for a while and I didn't know it. It's called a heteronym, which is a kind of an alternative personality who you know, makes art. And you have one, don't you? But you have a another performance name that you go by? Oh, yeah, that's when I perform traditional Japanese storytelling, like a scene I will see, like I have a stage name. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And why did you choose a performance name for that for that type of work? Oh, those are like, it's a traditional work. So like, I basically, my master gave me this name. So it's really, yes, it's that kind of stuff. So it's Okamoto school is the is traditional storytelling school. And then we would just call that our drag name. No, my drag name. But but could be sorry, like there's some yeah. Yeah, so but it's kind of interesting to have like alternative like personality because yeah, I do have it. Yes. Yeah. But what I was kind of like interested in is like, yeah, just kind of the like the way that you you you you sort of like break out from the from the norm. And then something that we were trying to do in some sense. So kind of well, I think you've already done it. I think you've already done it by coming to New York City. I mean, you've broken out of whatever norm you were raised in and you've come to New York City. And so in some ways, you are already out of the norm. And that is thrilling and exciting. So I think you just have to do you, you know, you just have to just make what you know, because context is everything, isn't it? You know, if you you could put the most traditional Arthur Miller play in the world on a stage in a town that's never seen theater and they would call it experimental, you know, so it's I think it's that's the fun part. We just I don't really think of myself as experimental. I think I'm just taking parts of culture that most people aren't used to seeing and bringing it to them. I think that's kind of more what I did. And just audience photos, you I mean, just that's how what's happening now. Yeah, I always kind of feel like I have to start over with every project. But I don't know. Is that how I mean, you must have I know you I mean, didn't you just perform at Carnegie Hall? Is that true? Oh, yeah, I actually was supposed to perform at Carnegie Hall last year, March. Oh, no, I got canceled. You got canceled. We never know where it's going to happen again. It's very disappointing. Yeah, I'm so sorry. Well, it's going to happen again. Yeah. Yeah, I love the book. Yeah, how that play and actually I'm not so sorry because I want to come see you. Yeah, I'm assuming it was the smallest space or was it the big hall? Were you going to perform in, you know, which theater? Oh, Duncan. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's viewed the acoustics are extraordinary in there. Well, next time. Definitely. Yeah, so I just want to thank you both for talking. And is there anything else you'd like to say about the piece or share or anything like that? Yeah, no, thank you so much for having us. Yeah. And so we're gonna cut to a work sample of work in progress that they've shown that they made a little video of and so we'll cut to that. And thank you all very much for tuning in. Thank you so much. Bye bye.