 I need a human rights commission agenda. Whoa, what is this? Hi, Donna Ray. How are you? I was calling you at the end of the day. I wanted to tell you something, but I don't think it was very important because I can't remember what it was. But I do remember calling you and saying, oh, I wonder if I'll catch her. But anyway. Yeah. So, yeah. Hi, Deb. How are you? Look, I put Deb in there today instead of Deborah. Oh, look at you. I'm well. How are you doing, Jennifer? I am well. And now, you know, I've attended so many Zoom things that I know how to rename myself with my pronouns. Like, this is like easy now. Yeah. And so, so tell me, how do you do that? Oh, gosh. Okay. Okay. So if you go, if you put your mouse thing on your box, yeah, there's a blue bar that says mute, and then there's a box that has three dots. Oh, I see it. And you can say rename. Click on that box and then yep, rename. And then you can type in whatever you want. Nice. That's great. Thanks for that tip. Right. Yeah. No, just passing it along. Excellent. Excellent. But that's the way to do it, right? You learn something new and you pass it along. That's it. So I just got out of the first Community Safety Working Group meeting, which was like, oh, how exciting. Yeah. How was it? It, you know, it was actually just a lot of bureaucratic issues like who's going to chair, who's going to be the vice chair, how do we proceed, who's going to be the person of contact. But it's a good group of people. And so they're going to, you know, they're going to, it looks like we'll be able to plow through, you know, meet the deadlines that are required right now. That's great. Yeah, that's so great. I was just in another meeting. The JCA hosted a talk with Bill Newman, who is the Western Mass AC lawyer from the ACLU. And oh, my God, I'm having a brain cramp. Tara, something from Pioneer Valley Project in Springfield. It was a great discussion on policing and incarceration. And they have like this list of questions that they can just lend to anybody who wants to go and sit down and have conversations with their police departments about, you know, police who have been, you know, written up, who have been, you know, you know, just like soliciting data from your local police. It was a great discussion. And I'm like brain dead at this point. That's the thing about the night meeting. Sometimes you're like, I gave it all away during the day, I don't have much left. So Erica, you are enlisted in as an attendee and a panelist. I'm not quite sure what's going on there. Let's see if I can promote to panelist. It should already be. But OK, perfect. How did there get to be so many meetings in Amherst on Thursday night? They were going to put the Community Safety Working Group meeting on Thursdays, which I couldn't have objected to. But I was like, please don't. Please don't because I have HRC. Well, yeah, what would you have done? That's and then the district meetings to. Yeah. Hi, Erica. Hey, how are you today? I'm good. Everybody here. We're all well. Sid just sent out a email saying hi all running behind. We'll be there in 10 minutes. I think that's OK if Matthew's coming so he can. I didn't hear back that Matthew wasn't coming so he can get the meeting started. Yeah. Ben. Hello. Hi, Ben. Hi. Oh, that's so funny, Erica. I just got Sid's email now. I think that's fine. Oh, sorry. Cedric, you look like you were in snow for a minute. I was a little concerned. Like what? Where are we waiting for Liz and Sid said he would be late? Correct. Oh, and Petua. All right. So Matthew's having difficulty sign in and out. Are you there, Matthew? I can hear you. We can hear you. OK. Yeah, but I've got a connecting window that that is just the circle keeps going. Oh. So I can't see you. Oh, did you want to hop out and then come back in? Or did you want to come back in? Yeah, I'm going to try that one more time and see if that works. I'll be with you again in one minute. Great. And so our presenters from the League of Women Voter are here and the attendees. Petua is in under. Hello, I think. Hi, Petua. Am I an attendee? Should I rejoin as a? Well, you're you're listed in both. But I think just give me one second. OK. And then you should be all set now. Sorry, I had to finish dinner with my family. So how's it going, Matthew? Not so well. No. All right, that's the agenda. And I'm clicking ask to unmute on Matthew. So I'm unmuted again. But again, it's not showing. Matthew, can you see us and we can't we just can't see you? No, I can't. I can't see you guys either. Oh, and guys said she was going to be late too today. That's right. Well, it seems like I can be on audio. I just won't be able to to see anyone or see any presentations that are made. Oh, that is. Is there, do you know if it would be be easier if you hopped in on your phone or I? Yeah, I'm trying to figure that out. As we speak, I'm trying to come up with another way of getting on. Hi, Sid. Hello, sorry, I'm late. Oh, no problem. We haven't quite. I'm echoing really bad. You hear that? Yes, no, I cannot. It's you, Sid. I can totally hear it. It's said. Yes, it was said. It was said. Here we are. I'm sorry. All right, Matthew, can you hear and see us? I can. Ah, what is that? You're sorry, it might be. Well, let me. Cancel my. Yeah, because you have two windows open, I think, Matthew. All right, is that better? All right. One second. All right. I'm just going to have to use the regular stuff here. All right. So who do we have on? Who do we have on? Let me see. I'm changing the view so I can see who is with us. OK. So it's so stressful when your technology doesn't work. I'm. Yes, but it looks like we've got. We've got four. Attendees as well as the the participants. And so we can we can start our conversation. This is great. All right. Um. So I can't imagine that we would want to add anything to the agenda. Which currently looks a bit over ambitious. But were there was there anything else that we needed to add to the agenda? Right. Hearing no request for that. I was not in attendance at our last meeting. I know that there is a. We have minutes from that meeting. Is there a motion to approve the meeting minutes from our October 15th, 2020 meeting? So moved. Second. I second. I second the motion. All right. All in favor. I. All right. The motion carries. Great. So I think. What I'd like to do is if we have people who are here for our public comment, if we can take that for a few minutes. People like to start with that. Although I just want to say it's great to see everybody. And I hope everybody's doing well. Okay. So if you are a participant. An attendee. And you'd like to speak during public comment. I don't know if you need to raise your hand or or how we're doing that. But if you could do that. It would be great in that way we can hear from you. Okay. They do need to raise their hand if they're per attendee and they want to participate. And I just also have to give out that morning that this. This meeting is being recorded. Yes. I don't know that we have. I think everybody that is in our attendee list is from the leak of women voters. Okay. Deb, do you know if you had mentioned someone else who was planning on speaking during public comment about reparations? Are they able to come? I thought she was going to be here. She is not here. I don't see her in the attendees list. So. Okay. All right. Then I think what we should do because we're running behind largely based on. My technological ineptitude. So I would love us to. For now, move on because we've got a lot on our agenda. And our first item. We can't, I can't hear you, Matthew muted. I don't think he's muted. Sorry, switching devices. So I was saying that the first item on our agenda is meeting our human resources director. So Donna Ray, if you'd like to introduce yourself. You know, you're muted. I'm so sorry about that. My name is Donna Ray. And I am the new HR director for the town of Amherst. I started on October 26. So still pretty brand new. I have started to read through your mission and bylaws and I'm very happy to be here and to learn more about the human rights commission. Thank you. And I worked kind of with Matthew before I came to the town of Amherst, not very closely, but I worked for Western New England University. And Matthew also works there. He's a professor. For those of you who don't know, yeah. So, so, you know, if we could quickly introduce ourselves, I guess. Donna Ray, you know me. If we're going through, you know Jennifer Moisten, I assume. Deb, you're your next. Do you want to introduce yourself. Yeah, hi Donna Ray. My name is Deb new power and then going into my second year as a commissioner. So it's nice to meet you. Great to meet you. Erica. Erica new to the commission as of this summer. Nice to meet you. Great to meet you. Thank you. Ben. I'm Ben. I'm on my second year. I think something like that. Second 16 something like that. Great to meet you. Thank you. Cedric. Hey, how are you doing? I'm Cedric. It's my first year. So nice to meet you. Very nice to meet you too. Thank you. Ced. Hello, Sid forever. This is my belief fifth or sixth year. Second, second go around. I'm also on the housing trust. Trust. Excellent. Great to meet you. Thank you. Good to meet you too. Good to see you. This is my second second year. Nice to meet you. Good to meet you. Hi, I'm Petua. Hi, I'm Petua. And I think this is my second year too. I'm a student at the high school. Wonderful. Great to meet you. Great. So this is the commission we have historically. Worked occasionally with the human resources director. There was an overlap as you are probably now where for a while between the human resources and human rights director. So we are now able to. Make that. Work out so that the human resources director is able to do the human resources job. And to make sure that we also have a focus on human rights. And we figure out the best way of doing that. With the town. That sounds great to me. And I'm, you know, definitely willing to pitch in and help in any way I can. Great. Well, thank you. Thanks. Great. So the next step for us. Is we wanted to have a discussion with the League of Women Voters Racial Equity and Justice Task Force. There are a number of participants. Attendees from the League of Women Voters. And I believe that. One of them asked Hartwell asked whether he would be able to share his screen when they gave their presentation to us. So I'm going to make them all panelists for the, for their presentation. So that we can see and. Then they have all the ability capabilities of. Okay. So that should be everyone. And now Ash, do you have the ability to share your screen now? I think I probably do. Thank you. That was perfect. Technical wizardry. Thank you. Just to introduce us all, I think. Andrea battle. We're all. With the, with the racial justice task force for the League of Women Voters and there's Martha Hanner. And Adrian Terezi. Adrian. Adrian. So the reason we came to you is because. When the social justice task force got started, we asked the question of how can we be a supporting. How can we support the work of the town to move forward on the issues of racial equity and justice. And rather than be a leader, how can we, how can we be a supporter? And how can we. To you, to the human rights commission, how could, how could we be of help? And Andrea, maybe I'll have you say a few words about it because you. You've inspired us with your words on this. Yes, I'm one of the reasons that I have been trying to get away from doing so much and joined the task force. I've been a member of the League for a while, but this task force, I liked the way we approached it. It was a task force to listen. To groups who are trying to. Help things happen in the town and various aspects. And the idea of listening and maybe supporting. And the idea of listening and promoting. Some of those groups and doing what we can. To foster. Better relations to. Promote. And to really just be very helpful, not leading, but listening and promoting is what appeal to me. And, and the work that. Ash and Martha actually did on research is just one of the beginning things that we've done. And I just wanted to say, you know, thank you for having us. And so quickly. And we're going to get on with the presentation, but I just want you to understand this is about helping and providing our name for a positive thing for whatever you're trying to do also. And also we're very aware that we have 10 minutes. We're going to try to do what we can. I wanted to say that what we, what we. What we took here was very modest. It was to say what public information is available. To inform public discourse and dialogue. Around racial justice and equity. What, what, what would people be able to turn to to say, what can we know about this for Amherst. We know that there are lots and lots of personal stories and lots and lots of. Events and things that we can turn to, what's the information say. So that was a very simple question. So we set out to, to try to find that out. And I'm going to share my screen. Well, just a moment. I'll be careful with the button you hit, you know, this is a very short slide, by the way, this is. So the questions we asked is so what public information exists. That will help us on racial equity and justice. And then where did we look, well, we, we asked some informants and thank you both, Matthew and Jennifer, because you were informants. But we, we wanted to look at it systemically rather than just at the issue of the day, which was security and policing. So we wanted to look at, so what's available about jobs, about. What's available about income, about housing, health, education, policing and town government. Those are the areas. And basically to say what we found was that. It's perfectly evident that what little information is available shows that racial inequality and gaps definitely exist. But almost all the public information sites don't actually tell us. What the status is by racial groups. And we found in, and in our report, which I think all of you should, should have, we can give that to everybody here on the, on the commission. We found 14 public sites which were of use, but none of them broke it down by race and down to the level of Amherst. A lot of them were regional. Excuse me, I want to go back. So we did from this, we did from this come up with some recommendations and that's what we really want to focus on here. We, we've looked at all of these sites and actually have linked all of them to you so that anybody who's interested to see what they say can go there and, and, and take a look. But it's mostly, as I said, it's, it's, it's disappointing for a variety of reasons. One of the biggest challenges was that most of the data that's available conflates the university population that live in the town and at the university with the non-student residents. And so if you ask a question like income, you find that it's quite distorted because students don't make much money. But you can't really tell what is the situation for not the non-student residents. This isn't to say students aren't very important within the town, but it's hard to get a full picture of the situation of those who are, are, are not students. In fact, it's just about impossible. And so that there are other issues as well, but that was the biggest problem that we faced. And as I said, we did find that when we looked at things like family income, which wouldn't apply so much to students, although some students obviously are in family, we see that the gaps are absolutely very real. Two and a half times the income level for the black family, for the, for the white family. So these gaps do exist. We have no doubt about that. So if somebody said to us, well, is this really a problem? It definitely is a problem. And it's true in health and it's true in other areas. Another thing, and Matthew brought this up to us actually early on, and that is that the whole process of identification of racial identity is problematic because it changes over time. And it now is mostly self-disclosure, which is fine, but many people change depending on who asks will change the response. And so that also makes it somewhat difficult to unpack the real situation in terms of racial equity and justice. But here's what we found, and I'm making this very brief. For the most part, sources of key indicators in the areas that we searched don't provide data analyzed by racial categories in Amherst. One example is the police department posts a summary on its website of call-in or rest logs, but none of that information is provided by racial identity so that we can't find any information that supports what is personal experience of BIPOC people of racial bias. And that makes it really difficult to address this. Just a moment. So we found that there's really a notable lack of public information on racial equity for employment, housing, health, policing, justice, and town government. The one area where we did find that it was available was in education, but that was available at the state level because it's mandated by the state that areas of attendance and discipline and performance are analyzed and provided by race. But otherwise, by and large, it's not there. And we think that's a reflection also on the towns, how to put it, focus on this or lack of focus as a town government. But we're not really interested just in the critique, what we're really interested in seeing, so what can we do to move this forward? And one thing we recognize is that data don't change anything. It's only when the town has a commitment to change and uses data to support that, that the data make a difference. So it's no sense going off and trying to gather a lot of data unless there's a strong commitment to actually use it. But we do think that we would need good information if the town itself set out to have a plan to do something about systemic racism. And until it can acquire good information on these issues, it's going to be impeded. Now, we have a set of nine specific action steps in the full report, but we'd like to highlight kind of what we can do in the short term because this is a big project. And it's not the League of Women Voters would do it. It has to be undertaken by the town government and other groups. But we really think that racial identity should be recorded for all police interactions. And we suspect that that data may be available but isn't made public, but we don't know. Another area which is pretty straightforward would be records of ethnic and racial diversity among town employees should be made available to the public. Now, should be clear in the public schools that data is available, but not in other areas. And so I'm going to stop there because we're very aware of the time limits. And I hope I haven't exceeded it because we really wanted to get some feedback from you. And also I'm going to ask Martha or Adrian or Andrea, if they'd like to, I'm sure I've missed something because I've done this very quickly. Yes, this is Martha. And I'd like to add one thing regarding the documentation for the police reports. A website, something that we did not include in the report because it really didn't say anything about Amherst was that Stanford University did sort of a national study of various state and city police departments looking specifically at traffic stops and the racial or ethnic identity and so on. And so, you know, no surprise to discover that they documented that indeed people of color were more often stopped in traffic stops. But what I liked was on their website where they listed data, they made the point that many police departments don't make very full documentation and they listed 14 points that they felt should be included in any complete police report for each traffic stop. And so we did share that with Paul Bachemann and asked him to discuss it with our police department because we felt it was important that the police department then get in the habit of recording all those 14 points as they document each traffic stop and other similar types of incidents. So if you folks are interested, we could send you the link to that study, but we have given it to Paul Bachemann. Ghasid Khair. Yeah, thank you all for presenting all of that. I just wanted to mention that when a few of us spoke with the chief earlier this year. He did mention I believe that the racial identity is recorded and that it's submitted. I want to say once a year to the state. So that may be something that you can request directly from the chief, but at least worth sending an email because I am pretty sure I remember him saying that that's something that they do in that there's no, there's no review of that and there's no sort of process of going through that and deciding what that information means, but that it is submitted to the state. Yeah, thank you for that. We do suspect that that's true from other sources too, but that what we're really interested here is seeing how this kind of data could be made available to the public rather easily so that the public can use it for discourse and analysis so that so that we have something that helps to inform the discussions on race, equity and justice rather than because I suspect there's lots of places where some of this data may be available but it's not open to the public easily. I would just add that one difficulty with the data is when police officers for example pull you over and they mark down your background. I think it's their, it's their guess as to what your background is. And so that gets reported they don't ask, they don't feel comfortable asking I've asked, you know, why don't you check with the person to confirm the information is correct. And, and they don't do that, and instead, you know, so I will say that a couple of times that I've been stopped. I haven't looked too closely at the time I've driven off and thought like I'm going to deal with this later. And then looked at it and saw that I was not described accurately in the data that was collected by the police department. So I don't. It's good to have processes by which we gather information. But the information is only as good as whatever our processes actually are and whether they work. So that's just something to think about for however we're going to collect data that we can use and, and then analyze or allow the public to analyze as well. And we do state specifically in our report relevant to that to that very description that we believe that the person who is cited has a right to see what was recorded for the racial data and has the right to either confirm or change it. I'm sure this would bring up some kind of, of issues, but, but that does seem to be a definite problem that does need to be addressed. Jennifer. Yeah. So I think we spoke about this when you presented to Paul too, but for the employee purposes too, we cannot require them to complete that. So I just feel like you would receive in. Not. Valid data, basically, because not all the employees complete that. And then I don't believe that we can ask them, Donna. Well, there, the information is gathered in the eye nine. So I think there's other ways that I think that we can get information. I nine. There's a, and I think it's in the eye nine. Well, we can check into it. Yeah. Okay. Let's check into it. I was, I was wondering. If you had any data relating to like home ownership and race, did you find anything about like, I don't know if I missed it, but like, is, did you guys do a little bit of. Yeah, that's a really good question because. And it's, it's just, it's really important. I mean, I don't know how. I think that. Presidents and where you live and how you live is really important. And. We, we searched, we really searched and we found some information, but it was really incomplete. And it wasn't broken out. By racial group. It was real broken out by poverty level. Or wealth level. And, but it's very clear and Amherst that that's a very key issue. in terms of its housing is historically redlined very clearly and only in the 60s did that change. So this is a really important issue. But we couldn't get the data. Because it can. Did you all find any examples of strategic plans in other cities or towns similar to Amherst that you think were good models. There's something called the G A R E. And it's a it's a national organization which helps towns do this do precisely this, including developing plans and using data and Jennifer you know they that Amherst is now become a member of that a new member. But there are lots of examples in the country of towns that have moved to do this and do it. Well, and some that have been doing it for quite some time, most of them are larger than Amherst, but but there's some good examples of it. And that that is a very rich site in terms of providing guidance and not just about the data but actually doing something with the data, making plans and taking them seriously. Well, it sounds like if we were able to gather data and work with it. I think it would be similar to the school system, trying to work with MSAN, you know the minority student achievement network. And, you know, us as a community and as a town trying to find methods to recognize where there are disparities and to see what the reasons are in the first instance and then to act on that to limit those disparities and to make things work a little bit better I think that's been the intent. So when I spoke with you previously I think I mentioned, you know, as a town I think we've got a consent decree with the NAACP going back to 77 on educational issues. Right. A consent decree that asks for things that would work within the school system that you know didn't end up working out the way that the consent decree intended and and the definitions of the people who would be affected by it has have shifted over time. So it does make it a little bit tricky to figure out when when even when we do think we're on the right path and we have a number of well meaning people. It is certainly not easy to move forward with consistency. If we if we take our eye off the ball for just a little bit. So, you know it's, it's, it's great to have a starting point though, on on data collection, and, and see that there's a lot of communication that we're looking to have and I think there's a lot of people in town who are looking to see what that information might show so we can act on it. You, you are going to get you I'm assuming we're going to give them the whole report because it does go into a little bit about housing and the committees that are, are, are, you know, in other words, we've gone into more. We're just giving the emphasis of the things that we think that can be changed or corrected in a short term but there's, there is a lot of stuff that we at least found parts of as you know, we just didn't have enough time to present the whole report and I think that the committee should get the whole report. I believe we have the 11 page report. So we, we do have that. And, you know, I, I don't have perfect recall of it, but I have taken a look at it, and, and I appreciate the work that was was done to, to gather information, and to talk about some of the difficulties even in gathering and I thought that that was, that was well done and, and again it's at least a good starting point for conversation. Is it higher. I'm wondering it sounds like you all met with Paul is that correct. That's right. Well, I don't know much about the gary, but is the gary like is our town's involvement with them, moving us towards developing a strategic plan. Did you get a response about your recommendations in terms of if there's going to be movement towards that. Yeah, the, it was, it was a good conversation, and he recognized the, the challenges Jennifer was in that meeting as well. And, and he, we didn't actually get into the gary membership but that is the focus of gary is for the town to develop a strategic plan and, and get the data to support it. And, and in doing that, to be sure that you do it with a process that is really engaging all the important voices that need to be heard. At this point, our, our strategy is is not so much like go right to the council and so forth but to talk to various groups about these findings, and to get a better understanding of what the town does and doesn't have and, and how it might be important to think deeply about some of the issues like the one you raised Matthew about the actual data that does exist. What are the indicators that are most important to people what are the ways in which you can actually improve what we've got because we, we don't have much. So, that's a two brief answer I think, but, but at this point we're really looking to inform different groups who are concerned about racial justice and equity in the town to on these findings and to see how we could collectively do something of use and getting started and that's why we wanted to do the short term, you know, what can we do next month. Matthew you're muted. Sorry I was saying Adrian, and I think said and Jennifer both wanted to say something as well. So hello everyone. Thank you Matthew I'll be very brief. I am a League of Women Voters member for many decades and but I appear here if I can in my dual role as a 50 plus year resident of Amherst. For me, the heart of the data that Ash and Martha have presented on behalf of the League for the Racial Justice Task Force is the foundational guide. And I always turn to the Human Rights Commission. Yes, we have many groups represented in town and certainly over my 50 years. The interest and the intent and the motivation for equity and justice for all has permeated much of what we've done. I think this is the moment to capture and Matthew. I feel that the Human Rights Commission you and your group are our connection as one organization to another. Yes, we have many Jennifer is here representing the town and certainly we need the town and we need all of the organizations. But if there's one group that I look to to support, it certainly is the resident on the Human Rights Commission because you represent all of us so thank you for giving us this time tonight I know it's a other group so I'll just end there. So thank you I hope this is not yet another study that lands on a shelf. I've been in town long enough to know and as a participant in many of those studies. This is a worthy study. It doesn't belong on a shelf. It needs to go forward with additional data and the contribution of the many groups that support what it is we're all about. So, with that I say thank you so much for having us. Thank you said. Well, yeah, thank you thank you for saying that but I just said one quick question. When you guys met with the with the town administrator did he made any commitments to do any type of assessment I mean we do know who our students are, we do know who are residents right at UMass we know exactly who our students are and be able to assess all of them and send the settlement assessments every semester. Did he make any commitments of doing the same thing for our town residents to assess, you know, all of these areas that you guys have studied and found that there wasn't a lot of information available to be able to really draw a conclusion. I wish we could say that he said yes we're going to move on that. I think he he took most interest in what we had to say about the policing. And I think he'd be supportive and I think that probably the safety committee that's now partly appointed may be able to move on that but great questions said I, he was, he kind of was very open but he didn't. I mean the policing is great as we all know has to be but there's a lot into to sectionalities with that right so you can't just do it separately from a bunch of other. And I know you know that so and that's why I think to a certain extent we have to ask those questions of a town manager to to make sure that you know an accurate study and accurate assessment is done. So that we can have real data that we can then go from. Yeah, it's very helpful to see that these are all interrelated and interlocked. Correct. Yeah. Thank you for your work. Appreciate you. And have, have you guys from the league made a presentation to the town council as well with regard to this. Not yet. Andrea, do you want to speak to that word or market. I think people are talking to individuals, but considering there was a reception that we were concerned about when some of the people who were with the racial equity task force was presented was questioned whether they spoke for the BIPOC population and that kind of thing and so we didn't want to. We would like to just help people and backup and lend our name and our force of people to various groups like yours, like the racial, we want to help people we don't want to get into it because you all don't want me at the town council and that can say that. Yeah, just saying, I'm being, I'm being careful. Okay, because I, I'm a New Yorker for my, my, my birth and I will get ugly. So I don't want to do that. I want to make things better. So that's why we're trusting on one groups that have developed and really improved, in my opinion, since I've been here for 10 years, have improved tremendously. And this is one of the commissions that, you know, I have faith in actually being able to work with or at least support, etc. But no, we haven't actually presented we're talking to individuals though. And yeah, we really feel that it's important not to go right away to the council on the issues of the relationship with the council to the BIPOC population in this town is pretty serious. And we don't want to get involved. We like the dialogue to take place that informs more people about the situation and and and to get it moving it that way. And that seems also an appropriate role for the league. That's great. And, you know, bring it here. I know I'm from Brooklyn. And so we're incredibly polite in Brooklyn. That's right. Jennifer. I wanted to follow up on a couple of things is guysy. Are you still there. She asked about the town managers. What he was going to do with the gear program. Yeah, and so right now the gear program is is. So there's a core equity team that is in formed has formed in town, which is just staff right now. And our, you know, we're hoping to help educate in a come up with a strategic plan using gear and then also just to help promote and inclusion and create inclusion within town, starting up all the way down. And I wanted to follow up the community safety working group had their first meeting today, there was the meeting that I just came from actually so I just wanted to follow up with that and, you know, it would be nice if maybe if you guys wanted to present to them as well at a later day. Yeah, great. Thank you. That's good. Well, thank you again. I think this is the start of a conversation. It's definitely not the end of a conversation. So let's let's not leave it there but but let's leave it there for tonight. It's good. Thank you. Okay, thank you and we'll make sure we should we. Matthew, can you get the report to everybody on the commission. Yes, we've sent it out to everyone on the commission, but you know, we will make sure that we're able to have a more in depth conversation about it at a later time. Okay, okay, well, we're here to help or support whatever you want to do with this. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Thank you so much. Speaking of other other groups in town, was anyone able to go to the, the people's assembly of the racial equity task force on Sunday afternoon. I was not able to go. Yes. Several of us. I just have to move Andrea and Adrian back into the, and I just want to give them the warning so I don't just like, you know, mid sentence. Waiting for Jen. Okay. So it seems like we may not have had a presence from the commission on Sunday afternoon for that. And you know, I'm, I am sure that it would be worthwhile to think through what the concerns are of the racial equity task force and so maybe we can arrange to hear from from people who can speak from that communication with that group. Tonight, I guess I want us to go through some of the other town responses to, to inequities that that we see occurring right now. As Jennifer mentioned already, so looking at the, the agenda action and discussion items were at D one. But Sid and I have been members of the, the selection committee for the community safety working group. The process has been ongoing. And we've seen some really wonderful people come through and the town manager is working to make sure that there's a group of people who can work together. And that group is working specifically on a shift in community safety, as we've discussed at the meeting before last, and it therefore is looking at the history of policing and the activities that police officers have done in the town of Amherst, and other kind of social responses we can have as a town. So that's ongoing and I haven't heard yet about their their first meeting tonight but I'm glad that that's starting up. They have a report due in January to the town manager, and the town manager I think has to give that report to the town council at that point and they'll have another. Today or another group will have a report in June of 2021. So, again, through the town manager's office. So I just want to let the commission know that that process is ongoing. And that those meetings began apparently at four o'clock today. Jennifer is that right. Yes. So for people like Jennifer who are going from meeting to meeting to meeting. They're probably all blending together a bit but but at least that that's also starting up. There was also a boat last about two weeks ago from the town council I think on the wage and tip theft by law it recognizes a report that would be given on a biannual basis, I think it's a meeting on a biannual basis. No, it's a report on a biannual basis by the town with regard to how it's responding to complaints about wage and tip theft. This is again in situations where people are are either day laborers in construction or something along the lines of that or tip theft in service industries where a large component of pay is actually through tips. So that is, will have a component of the Human Rights Commission, working with the town manager on an annual report on how the town is responding to complaints, although again I think it's meetings every other year with the Attorney General's office on on how the town is responding to that. One other thing I want to report on was the a couple of town counselors have reached out with regard to a town surveillance review. We sent around the draft of a town surveillance review document which would look to whenever the town buys equipment that would be used to surveil the population in some way whether it's, and there's a list of what's included and what's included, but it's, it's really looking at things like if, if you have something external to in what might be an area that is viewed as having a greater likelihood of crime or something like that. I think that the hope is that there'd be someone working with the town manager to report on concerns that we might have as a town for the residents of the town. The question was whether this was something that the Human Rights Commission should be involved in in the first instance or if it's something that something like the safety working group if it ends up trying to make a determination of who else in town should be considering these issues, whether they should be helping to make that determination of who would look at at that. I, when I was approached about it, I did say that one of the concerns I have is whoever needs to know the technology. Who needs time that if it requires gaining some expertise, there's a question of whether we want commissions that have people rolling off, you know, one third every year, whether we want different voices on. So I think there's more to think about with that. I wanted to hear from you all and to see whether this is the type of thing we think is the role that we want the Human Rights Commission to be further involved in or whether we think that there should be another town body that is considering things like surveillance and the role of the town investing in things that will keep an eye on what's happening in our communities and be aware that there should be concerns about some communities being overpoliced and overwatched and making sure that whoever is part of that discussion is speaking for the voices of those who historically have been watched more and policed more. Are there any thoughts on on that town surveillance review and what involvement to Human Rights Commission should have Petua. What why is the town investing in surveillance in general. Is there a reason or is it just because we want to do that. I don't have any information that the town is currently considering an investment in surveillance. There's actually a budget meeting that started I think six o'clock tonight for the town council budget forum. I'm not entirely sure what is being considered in the town's budget and what the benefits, what the perceived benefits might be to investing in some type of surveillance technology. I can say that when I was serving on town meeting. And we put up more of these. And I only serve for a few years but one of the things that occurred while I was serving on there was more of the stoplight cameras, and the idea is that they're helping with traffic flow. What a lot of people had was, is this something where you're going to be able to see license plates. Is this something that's going to be used to track people who are that the police are looking for is information going to go into a database that would be shared with other law enforcement there were a lot of questions that were asked. Chief at that point said that that's not the intent. This is all about making sure that traffic flows more smoothly. We would need a different kind of approval if we're looking for something else, and we don't foresee ourselves looking for something else. I don't know whether there's been a change and now that that we have a town council, the decisions might be able to be made a little bit more quickly. But I hope that they're also going to be very thoughtful about what is right for our town. Let me get myself. I think that at the least, at a minimum I should say, we should be aware of if the town and order police department or any entity from the from from the town should should be thinking about investing in this type of technology because everything that have I have read, you know, it can go left, you know, really quickly, especially when you have in I want to represent a population and or targeted populations. You know, it's been used in the past and not just I haven't read anything about the United States but I know outside of the United States, that technology has been has been used to bring people to prosecution. I mean, you know, putting people in prison, you know, violating people's rights so for me, it is a human rights issue on when this when this type of technologies employed because it can be used to violate people's human rights right. So I think at a minimum, we need to be aware of it. If there's a way that we can be proactive we as in the town to say, you know, is this technology technology going to be, you know, what's the name of it. If we look at this technology in the future, how are we going to utilize it for these certain ways, they should be a they should come to us first and talk to us and other entities before they make that final decision, because this technology definitely can be used to violate people's rights, human rights. Thank you, Deb. I agree with that just because it doesn't start out being used for that purpose doesn't mean that that purpose doesn't become available. When they're searching for, you know, this or that person and then they use it once they roll those cameras back because they're searching for someone or something and then they that that becomes part of what they do, you know, surveillance I think this is a discussion why would we be in why would the town be investing in this and it does seem to me that it falls under the purview of both the public safety working group and the HRC, maybe one person from each group would, you know, be participating in this discussion. You'd recommend that if if the discussion with this work to go forward at some point, they would seek to have members of town commissions or committees that deal with some of the underlying issues as part of the group that works with the town manager in responding to what those what surveillance technologies might be considered. Yep. Because once those cameras go on their filming 24 seven, you know, so, and, you know, just the purpose of what they're, you know, when they're when they start looking when we roll roll that back for one reason. We can roll it back, you know roll those cameras back to see what got filmed at, you know, Saturday night at 1145. And then roll that back for multiple purposes. I don't know if I'm making myself clear, but I just have seen that at the jail like the cameras are on all the time. They're not necessarily watching them until there's a problem, and then there's a problem and they're rolling it back and they're catching all kinds of things because those cameras are on all the time. But that's, that's certainly the concern that that over policing would it would prevent people from feeling comfortable engaging in either behavior that's perfectly legal but maybe might be disfavored or, or embarrassing or whatever it would be, or behavior that is moderately illegal. And all I mean by that is behavior that can be policed, but that we tend as a community to choose not to police. But if you have it on film, then you can choose to use it or not to and, and that shifts some of the expectations of what it means to be part of a community. So, well, again, I don't believe that the town council is has moved forward with anything on this yet. It was brought by brought to my attention by a couple of town counselors as something that they're thinking about. And I think the idea of saying that we would want to designate because of open meeting laws, I think we would need to designate one person so that there wouldn't be a deliberation of the Human Rights Commission outside of a time that we have set aside for a meeting. But, but I think that that's certainly something that would be helpful to have it brought back to us into our attention. I think Liz has her hand up. Oh, I didn't see that. I'm sorry, Liz. That's okay. When we talk about surveillance, are we talking about in the neighborhoods in town? Are we talking about police bodycams? A combination of all of that? What exactly are we talking about? I believe that it is the possibility of a combination of all of that, that the town council is trying to consider if the town does invest, and this goes to Petra's earlier question too about, you know, is there a reason to bring it up now? And I don't have an answer for that. I'm not sure if there is something that has been considered. You know, my guess is that as we're thinking about what we would like our own policing to look like, if there's a discussion about bodycams or something like that, do we want to have some degree of oversight? And who would that oversight body be? I think that that's the main question. If we look back at bodycams over the last, you know, five years since they've become more in use, I think we've all seen examples of even abuse of bodycams that came to, came to light. So for example, the police officer, this was a few years ago, and I think that there was something going around showing someone who turned on their body cam, didn't realize that it goes back 30 seconds from before when they hit on. So it shows them planting the drugs, walking back from where they planted the drugs. Then once they think the camera's on saying, you know, looks like there might be something down this alley walking down an alleyway and then finding the drugs that the camera shows that they planted, right? So you can, if you know how to use the technology, the police officer thought that they would be able, and this is not in the town of Amherst, I want to be clear on that. But, you know, a police officer could try to abuse that. I think we all need to be aware that putting something on film doesn't necessarily make it make it better just because we've seen what's happening. It doesn't mean that there aren't people with an editorial eye that are trying to make it look one way when it's really coming down another way. But I think all that we can do is respond to them at this point that we would like if there is some kind of committee to opine on whether someone from the Human Rights Commission could serve on that committee and be part of it. That is a great question, Liz. That was something I hadn't really considered. When I was thinking of surveillance, I was thinking of like cameras in neighborhoods or at traffic lights. I wasn't thinking about body camps on police. So thank you for asking that question. That's an important distinction. I just wanted to say that in case. So I wouldn't be misunderstood. Yeah, so I think everyone has asked some good questions. I kind of wish I had more answers or better answers. But I'm just going with what I've heard thus far from from two of the town counselors who are are moving forward with this and I only received an email haven't even had a conversation with them about it. Can I just say one other thing. The thing I want us to consider is like what is the problem that surveillance is trying to solve. So that's, I just want that question to be part of the discussion what is the problem that we're trying to solve here. So, just to frame whether we would advise to or not to go, you know, to make that investment. I would also add like considering everything that's happened this year, like adding a budget to the like adding more budget to the police or to surveillance is not what like the climate of like this community is and I feel like doing that goes directly to something that's been going on this past couple of months. So I'm kind of alarmed that the town council is considering this, even if it's not even, but like it just kind of concerns me that people aren't listening to what is going on in the world. So, I just want to say that. Yeah, and I want to be clear that I don't know that they're that they're considering any particular type of surveillance. It could be exploratory. So if if the community safety working group ended up coming back and saying, we would like to have fewer police officers. And one solution might be that, you know, there there be cameras in the center of town so that you don't need to have people in the area until something comes up, then we would have that option. I would be personally uncomfortable with that option that's me. But I haven't studied it yet and and so I would want to hear why anyone would think that's a good idea. But I agree. I'm putting money towards a police budget. And I think that things like body cams and those types of community oriented cameras have historically been treated as part of a police budget. That might be different than having something as part of a community safety budget that would look to instead of having police officers available for for traffic. Using traffic in some way, increasing the number of cameras surveilling it, you know, the public way in order to make things work more easily. If, if that's the argument and it has nothing to do with the policing budget or if it's diminishing the policing budget in order to shift it to something else to look at areas where people would typically where people who are housing insecure might be in making sure that on colder nights, there is awareness if someone is in an area where people would tend to congregate, but wouldn't be safe, you know, something like that. I think that there's a lot of speculation we could do on what they would want to do with it. I just don't have any idea at this time. So I, but I do think we want to continue to be part of the conversation is certainly what I'm hearing. Jennifer, I had to step away for a moment and maybe I missed that part but did they say why they wanted to have it, like, do they feel like it would be some type of safety or like, or like, there's, we don't know enough about it yet is No, I have, I sent around the draft document that that they sent to me. And, and they just asked whether the Human Rights Commission would want to be part of the conversation. I think if they weren't having the budget forum, some one of the counselors would have come and talk to us a little bit about it tonight. But because they, they have that as something they have to do a few times a year. And tonight was the night they scheduled it for. So that's why they're not here to explain it. So maybe we can arrange for them to have a discussion with us about it to have one of the town counselors at least come and tell us what the possibilities would be for that. Any other questions on that hearing none at this time. So, I know Jennifer has been working on the community outreach survey. And, and I believe that there was some discussion at the last meeting of of collecting information. And, you know, and so I wanted to know if there's anything else that we want to discuss around that I will acknowledge that my own understanding of the community outreach survey is not as strong as I would like it to be. But that is you know, more a question of just us as a commission trying to figure out from when we started meeting again in June. And then we had a speaker come in and before we want to have more speakers and more town conversation. He said that we looked forward to there being more of a grassroots perspective on what we as a town need to be talking about need to be focusing on, particularly surrounding issues of of anti racism. And I originally did not understand the community outreach survey to be geared towards that I thought was in response to our July speaker and and how what next steps would be. But I think at this point we have had people go out to different parts of the Amherst community and and seek to do something with the survey is that correct Jennifer. But no, no, no one's done anything with it. So no one's going to make a move unless we're all like I wouldn't have everybody go do that and half of the committee wasn't at the meeting when we discussed it that doesn't seem like it's an ethical way to move in the commission but so here's where we're at so I think that it was trying to have ambassadors do it so that we can connect. And so what I did find out is we can get a little bit of a stipend for people who would like to be ambassadors to have this survey completed. And we can't call it a survey either. And there's lots of reasons why we can't call it a survey. Right. So we have to, it could maybe it could be a questionnaire or I'm not quite sure something else to discuss you know part of the problem is that we're meeting once a month, and then we don't get enough time to really discuss these things or, you know, on the times that we do not everybody's here so it's just hard to make it move. But I, you know, and then if we have ambassadors do it you kind of feel like you have to train the ambassadors a little bit. So that they know what they're doing when they go out into the community to represent which then I start thinking that maybe we should have an ambassador program. Right. So it just keeps getting further and further and deeper and deeper right and so for it to be a survey is too complicated. I'm trying to go quickly because we're coming up towards eight o'clock and there's still a few more items I think that we can just kind of push through. So it can't be quite a survey because we're we can't say that it would represent the town itself because we can't get it to everybody. We're not going to get it from back from everybody if we did get it to everybody so it has to have some other type of title. But Paul is okay with having ambassadors do that and the purpose for the ambassadors and the complexes is because they already have a connection to the people that we're trying to hear from, and which we don't necessarily and we also know that some people are feel some type of way with authority at this time, and are as trusting and so it's really to get the deepest to get what we can. And it is a two folded questionnaire at this point right because it'll be on our website and I'm quite sure and we'll go to the town councils. I'm not as concerned with it getting to the constituents of the council, and to those who are already involved in public and local government. Right, it's the people that we don't hear from who are affected most by the things that are going on in Amherst that have to do with any type of ism really right let's not limit it to race but it's gender identity. It's all of it so the idea is just to get a better temple of the things that yes that we need to proceed to move forward with helping educate the community. Right. And so that's where I am with that and if any commissioners want to work with me on that I'm okay with that too, because I don't see how it's ever going to get done, meaning. Once a month right because this is all we hear about it and now we have to wait until December to have further discussion on it. And so it if I don't know how to make that happen in a faster way I tried to have a meeting in between and didn't get that much of a response from everybody. And so I don't know if we need to just have a group to, or three folks who we just either meet separately or somehow and and move forward with it that way. If we need a subcommittee of our committee or or what. Well, the concern I would have is again if we treat it as a subcommittee. I think we still have the same open meeting laws issues that we need to kind of post that that we're meeting. But that would be fine because we could meet as much as we want or often as we needed it's not I mean that's the issue isn't it being. We have open meeting law I just we can't communicate enough once a month to get it to move is what I'm saying right so somehow I need a way. We need a way to connect more so that it can move somewhere is what I'm trying to say. I'm sorry it's been a really long day and meetings like in zoom meetings all day long so I don't mean to sound frustrated I'm hungry. So, but, and I am a little bit feeling some kind of way about the whole survey slash questionnaire slash whatever we're going to call it at this point because you know we could have executed it 10 times by now. What needs to still be done on it because it seemed like it was pretty well complete. Well, so, but I need a group to work behind it with the whole ambassadors and getting that that training piece and I can't just take this and and I feel like it's not my place to take this and just run with it this is a part of the human rights commission so I need some human rights commission members to work with me on it. If that makes sense. And no this we don't have to necessarily do any adjustments to the actual survey questionnaire whatever we're calling it itself, but the execution of it the whole piece with the ambassadors and and getting them paid and having them trained that piece I would prefer to have some help or assistance with it from commissioners. If that does that answer your question and again I'm not trying to be hostile. I think it's it's great if there are, if, if there are commissioners who understand what their responsibilities would be. And it doesn't have to be. If it's a town document. We can be one of the entities working with you on it. And so if we have people who are. That we, we delegate to work on it on the town document or even don't delegate but we have volunteers that have come from the commission. And therefore it's not us deliberating on it, then it's just the town doing its business and volunteers working with the town. And not open meeting law just to be clear for the recording. I'm just saying that if it's not actually a human rights commission document, but it's something that that the town collects and town counselors collect and we're able to utilize that information. Then it can be whoever we want, or whoever you want to work with on that. Okay, and so and it seems like this is what tie along with the human rights commission and it needs to have like a home or a group of body that it belongs to specifically. So if the human rights commission itself doesn't want to be involved in it, then that's okay the only thing I'm saying is working with the other group is if I worked with two members. However, we make that happen or if we have to, you know, go by the open meeting laws so that we can just have it. A plan for how we're going to handle do the ambassador training how they're going to get paid, how we're going to give them how many languages will have a, whatever the cases, and bring that to the commission as a whole and say here, here's our plan. We need you guys to be on board with it yay or nay. Does that make it a little more clear for it, like, talking to a couple of students that I that wanted that were interested in becoming an ambassador and they were just not clear about what exactly it right mean. Yeah, so I think if we could like define what an ambassador be or what the program is I could help do that. And then we can like share that and that way, people can know what it is and then we can get stuff moving. On top of that, what Petra was saying is I did speak to the two people that I was posted one from rolling green and one from Riverside. And they are interested want to know more about what being an ambassador is and how many, how much time they needed to put in and things like that so I do have some people that are interested in helping move this questionnaire along. And so, as as do I so I can also help you. Okay, if you need to, if you need some assistance. So that's two people so I don't know that that causes an open meeting law but I will run that by Paul just to make sure that he feels like it's, it's not of an issue. Otherwise we can just post the meeting and that would be fine. That's, that's fine. The other suggestion is since we keep pushing this back pushing this back. Right now our next meeting is scheduled for today's the 19th so I would say December 17 should be our next schedule meeting yes no maybe. Yeah. And if we can all plan to be here just for that one day for extra half an hour just for this. Maybe we can knock it out that way. Yeah, yeah. Either one of those ways works, whatever you guys feel comfortable, but I need like buy in from you guys, and then I need your assistance within that buy in, if that makes sense, which I think I have the buy in I just need the assistance moving forward. I'm going to zoom in a little bit with what's in a few items on the agenda, but just about like what your role is and how we have had a pattern at least in the past year of discussing ideas and then you Jennifer end up and go do a bunch of work. That is why a part of why I wanted to bring up like a conversation about what your role is and how we all work together, because I have seen other committees do work outside of their meeting time and and I think it makes sense for us to purchase like if we want something to happen that we should all work on it rather than just having Jennifer do it. As fabulous as you are, and you've done everything really beautifully but it doesn't seem like it's your role and it doesn't seem like we're living up to our roles either. I agree that if we are going to. There should be a question about whether. If we want to have some kind of questionnaire for example, whether we should take ownership of that from the beginning. Or whether we should, you know, try to be supportive of the town going forward and doing that. So I do think that there's, once someone has has commenced the work that I think we just have to decide whether it's something that that we are buying into or it's something that that we are promoting ourselves. And so I think that those those are two slightly different things. But, but I think that that's, that's important and it's also important for us to recognize that historically at least part of what we've done in between meetings to is, is be the people who who are showing up at at events who are, you know, there's a little bit less of that now, but as far as when, when we know about events that are coming up that we can be part of listening and bringing that back to the commission. So that we can figure out how to be supportive of others in our community in general. But it sounds like Jennifer is correct at this point that there is a buy in on doing a questionnaire so that we can have more of a conversation as a town of on issues that are important to us and gathering that information, working with town counselors and so on. So it seems like there's, there's a way for us to move forward on this. So there's two other things on the agenda. Wait, Jennifer, you're saying something. So now I'm confused, because now I don't feel like I feel like it just got rolled back again, somehow. I'm just trying to like here's my, my thought process is if somebody goes and puts all this work together and then you guys don't support it I mean like, I need to, to like have a more solid foundation then you go do all this work and then we'll tell you if we're going to support it or not I mean you guys can literally just vote on it I could happen at the next meeting as far as I'm concerned right and then that would just end that. I can move forward from there and I'm gonna, I don't mean to seem I'm hoping I'm not coming off of super aggressive. I'm a little hangry. So, I'm a little shaky so, but I just, I feel like the purpose for the questionnaire really we know we're going to hear from a certain group of people already with it or without it, but there's our groups of people who we do not hear from, and none of us have connections to them necessarily, and we need to hear from them. And the way to do that is through our ambassadors who already have those connections. And regardless of whatever we do in the HRC at some point we need to make that connection with that those groups otherwise what we're doing doesn't matter. Right. And so I just, I feel like I need a little bit either I like if you guys want to think about it for the next month and then come back and vote on it whether or not to move forward with it. I would prefer that then to go and do the work behind it and then come back and then have it either get delayed more, or no vote be taken, or it just get 86 that all because then that's a lot of work for nothing like I have to have buy in I can go to the 50 working group and see if they will buy into it and do it instead. I mean that's fine with me if that's the way we're going to go with it but I need I need something because it's been like four months five months. So I for one would be very happy at this point if what we're doing is we're collecting information on what the community wants to talk about. We're trying to figure out the priorities of our community and we're trying to reach out to people who may not have been heard. Historically, and that's, that's the goal of this. I support that. And we just take a vote and then, and then I can. Okay, do it. Okay, I mean I, I, I thought we had a sense of the committee, the commission to support it but I'd be happy for us to vote to support that is there. There's a motion to support the dev I don't know. You don't even know what to call it running this down to support the questionnaire would be support the questionnaire that the HRC would support the distribution and implementation of this questionnaire community wide. Right. Is there a second. Second. All right, all in favor. Wait, you said second. I think Ben said second. I think All right, all right, so that's passed unanimously. Great. Okay. So, the, the last two things on the agenda. It was just a reminder that there are upcoming events before our next meeting on the 17th, if Liz got it right and I trust Liz. December 10. I believe the town council is planning on on on continuing to support our reading the Universal Declaration of Human Rights outside distanced. If there's any reason that it cannot be done outside and distance that there, we'd revisit whether to do something online. But the initial plan is that we would have an event on Tuesday, December 10, I think at 6pm. I think that was the time that I heard from the town council. Yeah, we just want to be able to advertise it because we're just not advertising any kind of gathering. So we could have as many commissioners attend for that brief amount of time to read that that would make the, the biggest impact, I think. Yeah. And if you want to bring people that you are already potted with or, you know, so that it feels a little bit bigger but you know it's still safe. That would be great too. So December 10 is a Thursday. And it's also the beginning of Hanukkah. So, I think that we have, we have shared during Hanukkah, the green before with with Hillel, who I think has brought out Hanukkah brought a large menorah. So, I don't think that there's been a conflict. Because December 10 is International Human Rights Day, we have done it on that day, regardless of the day of the week. But you're right, it's a work night. It's a six o'clock in a work night and school night. It's like a 20, 25 minute reading, right? Don't you think? Yep. It's that even. Yep. What's that said. I said, it's definitely quick. Especially if it's really cold, then it really goes quick. So, I know that typically we've had a celebration of, of MLK day. And we have had commissioners show up as a table sponsored by the town. I have not heard of a shift this year. Obviously, we're, we're playing a lot by ear. We're congregating where we can safely. But I don't know that there is a plan for a congregation. Last year, we had both a celebration on the town steps as well as the breakfast. I just don't know what the plans are for this year. Jen. Because the wheels are always thinking. I'm really hoping that we can just somehow connect with the folks who do Kwanzaa regardless. And we do it virtually have Amherst media posted for us. And, or even if like, different people take on the seven days and somebody just reads what that seventh day means and lights the candle. And we just air that through Amherst media. So I haven't I've been like super busy so I haven't been able to quite yet check in with the shabazzes and Lauren Mills about it but I will. Next week. I'm going to assume that for a black history month and Martin Luther King's birthday will still do something it's going to be virtual though, right and so, and that's just, we'll have to do it that way which stinks because you know let's get cake and good food and stuff like that I think we just have to keep that I, you know, I'm, I think we have to keep these things going. It's the best of our ability. Keep moving forward with them. Right. And so the, the last thing on our agenda. Again, and so that responds to the recognition of Kwanzaa which was also on the agenda. And, and I suppose, you know, I guess we're, we don't recognize the religious holidays. All right, but the last thing on our agenda was the role of commissioners chair town staff liaison I know that because he has, you know, wanted to ask about a couple of things one, I think the ability to have participating or, or just different ways of having the meetings managed and I think that that that's certainly something we can talk about fairly quickly. Also, we do vote for a chair every year. And we usually we waited I think last year was after everyone who was appointed over the summer and into the early fall of last year. So it was at our November 10th or 12th or whatever that was retreat that we voted for chair. So it's, it's November again, it's, it's time. And so if, you know, we can have a chair and a vice chair, so that we know that there's always the ability to have the meetings, someone on on deck. And again, that person is chair would not have to manage each meeting. They can arrange with others. There just has to be some degree of coordination. And that would be the chairs responsibility. So are those are, is there anyone who is interested in serving as chair of the commission. Not that I'm interested in serving as chair, but I would thank you for that introduction and I would like to nominate Ben to be chair, if he would be willing. Are there, are there any other nominations. Oh, let's just nominate you Matthew, you know, to continue to be chair, you know, and if you were to accept, because I know you've done it for a while. Yeah, I'm, you know, I, I had discussed with Paul at one point, you know, he and I have discussed the fact that there are so many qualified people on the commission who could serve as chair. With the types of transitions we've had he had originally suggested and that I continue in the role. I do think that there is probably something correct about changing it every couple of years, at least, just so that we get different perspectives. And everyone realizes that you don't get selected to the commission if you're not already a leader and and able to bring us together. So I have faith in everybody. I will probably be just a little bit less loquacious. When I'm not kind of on all the time. And that might make our meetings go faster. So, so that's a benefit to So if there's someone else who is interested, just out of a sense of good governance and in my belief in all of you, I would be happy to support someone else in this role. I mean, I think at this point like it clearly needs to be voted right like I don't think you can just hand the torch over or not hand torch over I think it. No, that's, that's correct. I just want to I'm waiting to make sure there's no other other nominations. Yeah. Okay. I don't know if we would technically need to ask Ben to leave or something so that we could consider his candidacy but I think that that we could just call for a vote. In favor of supporting Ben as chair of the commission. Wait, hold on. I'm sorry, can I just ask one quick question. Are you respectfully declining continuing. If, if there's someone else who feels that they are in a position to do so, then as a question of governance, I am happy to to give space for other voices. I have another question. Yes. So does the chair pick the vice chair or is the vice chair still said, or will not just say but whoever, but it just happens to be said this time, or how does that work. In theory I believe that the vice chair would also be elected, not so great. No, that said, are you officially the vice chair did we ever vote that or did we just say here said take them. I believe we voted that but it was before Matt you came in. Okay, yeah, right. Okay, so yeah, I mean, if you guys are going to do chair you should do vice chair now. Absolutely. No, it's important. I think it's important to have a vice chair to tell you. Absolutely. And, and just to be clear again, the chairs responsibility is making sure the that the agenda set being available to sometimes mediate situations that I and I don't know it has that it has to be the chair historically it has been the chair who has engaged in the mediation of issues that are not that participants don't want to be on the public record and therefore don't want to bring to the, the commission as a whole. So, so those are just some of the aspects of the role. Ben are you still on board for the possibility of it. Okay. Okay. All right. All in favor of of voting for Ben for chair of the commission. Right. It looks like it's unanimous Ben. Yeah, yes, you can go for yourself to that's fine. So that means that this will be the last meeting that I am chairing. I will also ask if there is someone who's interested in serving as vice chair, who will step up if the chair is unable to make it would potentially be asked to fill the role of chair in other circumstances if the chair can't respond to the town. On a short basis to help the mediation that kind of thing. Was there someone interested in serving as vice chair. Am I allowed to. Am I allowed to, because I'm like a minor. I was going to ask the same thing Petra because I would love to nominate you. Yeah, that's what I was like Patrick yes, I mean she's a member of the commission I have never seen anything about age right. So to my knowledge, there's nothing about age. Now that said, Petra. Well, it's for this year, it's through June. So yes, so that yeah, I'll be I'll still be here. Yeah, that was my question. Yeah, put too much pressure on you I know it's November senior year so you know, yeah. So, Patrick, I think that that was both a self nomination and a sit nomination. So, you've got your doubly nominated. I think you would be fabulous petra. Okay. Is. I won't opine. But if there's, if there are any other nominations, I'm happy to hear them at this point. Not hearing any other nominations at this time. Is there a support for Petra as vice chair of the commission. All right. This is fantastic. This is the. I think. First kind of transitional a little bit in like three and a half years on the commission so this is. This is something I'm excited. I'm excited for the commission and I'm excited for work. And I think the chair and vice chair can have have slightly different ideas on how to frame things how to how to handle the next meeting. The, I want to congratulate both of you. And I guess it has has something to say I think. Yes, thank you so much Ben and petra for being willing and I just wanted to share I feel sad to say this but I have been really trying to balance everything. I'm really excited to be with COVID and Galileo being home and online schooling and me trying to work extra hours in the evenings. As a result, and I, I didn't expect to get a little emotional, but I am going to need to step down. And I really, I want to be like involved in it in whatever way that I can I'm not going to disappear, but I just also know that for self preservation. To get through what is like not ending here and the continued online schooling and having to manage everything that I just need to take some things off my plate. So I wanted to share that this is going to be my last meeting. And it's been a great experience to work with you all and I will stay in touch and pop into meetings if and when I can look. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for, for serving with the commission and and contributing and and bringing your energy. And it is appreciated. I'm sorry, especially for the reasons being that I'm in the schools. It's really hard on a lot of people this remote learning. It's hard on this kids it's hard on the families. And I know as a teacher, which I am it's really, really difficult. So I appreciate you as a health teacher taken a look at all that is put in front of you and making the decision to take care of self and family and putting them first, and I'm sorry to see that you're going. Yeah. So, yeah, I, you know, same here does it best of luck, you know, know that, you know, speaking for myself I'm here to help on that whichever way I can so please do that. Reach out. Okay. And I echo Liz's word, take care of yourself. You can take care of no one else if you can take care of number one and then your family right so one do that. And also, I want to thank Matthew for his years of leadership in in the Human Rights Commission is it's been really an amazing leader and appreciated you being there I've seen all the work you've done been around you a lot of, a lot of times in those hearing ins and all of this stuff and you've always been present. And, you know, your way of looking at things and, and looking at it from both side and appreciated your legal, your legal mind because I think that's important. But at the same time, you didn't always look at it from a legal perspective. Right. And that, that makes a huge difference in, in a group like this where, you know, you didn't impose your views on anyone, you know, you gave your, you gave your ideas, either from legal perspective of not as the chair, but then you allowed everyone also to come in and put their views in and then come up with a consensus so truly appreciated, you know these three and a half years that your chair and, you know, welcome Ben. Pretty sure you'll be amazing you and, and Petra so yeah. Well, thanks everyone. That's everything on our agenda. And so if, if there is a motion to adjourn. Can I just say one thing, just one small small. So I apologize for being late I was in another meeting because they are starting up winter athletics at UMass and I do work for them. They're starting the winter season so we was in a interesting meeting about that. But if you are out holiday shopping, or whatever, and you come across a gift card that you would like to donate to the family center so that we can disperse it to our students in need. And if you want to do so if you have something you want to mail, you can mail it to a Chestnut Street address to the family center and address it to my doctor Marta Gravara, and she will get it to the families that need it. And we're asking for gift cards for places that they can shop like Target and Walmart where they can do food and clothing and all the things that they need in one stop. And we can also do stop and shop in other places that you might think would be essential for our families in need. That's all. Great. All right. Well, it's, it's good to see everyone. Thank you for the continued service in this time. Thank you for the service that you've provided in your time on the commission and your time with the town and and gets it. Thank you again for for serving on the commission and a reminder that even though we're not together with each other. We're not able to reach out to each other and, and you know, if anyone ever needs to reach out and just have someone to talk to. I think we'll try to make time for each other and try to be there. So, thank you to everybody. And forget about that. It's a hard time. Yeah, but there was a motion to adjourn I forgot to. Yes. Did you do it? Look, I see it to us. Yes. Motion to adjourn. All right. All right. All in favor. I think it's I, I, I, but all right. Thanks everybody. Bye everybody. Thank you. You can hear you less.