 Based on your experiences regarding anything to do with education, indigenous learning, in your opinion, what makes some of the programming that you experience an example of excellence in indigenous education? I think one of the first courses that I was asked to teach was a science-based course for a nursing program, biology to pathophysiology. So for nursing students, they were all different. Like all the students that came into the course or were in the course were all different. They all came from different backgrounds. So you really have to understand that as an educator. You have to meet them at their level where they're at and still have room for those that are at other levels, different levels. So to me that's one of the first things that you learn as the educator going into that sort of setting. I always try to bring, so I've taught other courses as well. I taught again in the personal support worker program. And these have happened all in my community on a part-time basis, after hours, after work. I've always tried to bring in personal examples to explain. Or, I don't know if you'd call them cultural examples, but ways that we live, things that we can relate to to explain what that is in science. One good example was when we learned about the different ways that molecules go in and out of a cell. And I could tell one of the nursing students was really struggling trying to write down like the notes during the class. But I really needed her to get the concept and I knew she was a visual person. So that's another difference. You have to be creative in getting the message across so that it's not forgotten. That it stays, they're going to remember that when it comes back to studying time, crunch time, exam time and all those kinds of things. Because that's the way the program is delivered. So I was thinking, how could I explain that this cell membrane is semipermeable? And I thought, well, you know who does this in our way of knowing, is buffaloes. So what they do, so then I stopped trying to explain semipermeable membrane. And I started describing a buffalo herd. I said, when there are wolves attacking and they're going to attack the most vulnerable, and this is known in that buffalo herd, what they'll do is they'll line up, they'll make a circle with their back ends touching each other and their front ends facing all the circumference of where the wolves are coming in. They'll put their babies in the middle and to protect them and probably the vulnerable, the older buffalo as well. Anyway, so what are these wolves trying to do? They're trying to get in between each buffalo that's standing there. So that was how I explained the adult strong buffaloes is like that cell membrane. And only certain things are going to get through. Semipermeable just means when it's out of balance, certain things will come in and then the cell will move certain things out. That's all it means, the movement between that wall. And voila! The student was, oh, okay, now I understand. And when it came time to study, there was nothing that was going to take that learning experience or that knowledge away from her because it was related to something she could already understand in our way of understanding. So I think that was a good example. Another example that I had just thinking back was about the heart and how the volume of your blood changes according to the elasticity of the vessels and when does the volume go up, when does the volume go down. And I was thinking, well, you know, something I really like to do personally when I'm out and about on the water is I like to visit other camps, whether the owners of those camps are home or not. Just like to see how they live. And one of the camps we visited had the big holding tank up on the roof. And I thought, okay, there's a good way to explain how the volume of the blood can change because of the pressure of the liquid up on top, right? So just explaining that if the hose was this small and the tank was that full, then how fast would the water be coming out at this end? That's what we mean when we talk about blood pressure. Those are all the things that kind of gauge that. But the students were more interested in my extracurricular activities of going to these camps and looking at things. It became like a personal connection to the water, the land, how people live, you know, and all those kinds of things. Meanwhile, they'll probably still never forget what are the things that control the volume in our blood system. In our circulatory system. So those are just two examples of how I've managed to kind of take such a complex, scientific, you know, where people could get lost at the different ways that that's what are all those molecules going in and out of the cell and get all caught up in all the details when you could just explain it in a full package. And you just have to change this for that and change this for that to be able to. Yeah, so anyway, those are good examples. For my second question, from your perspective, what would you constitute as Indigenous education and would you even call it Indigenous education? There, being the age I am now, I really believe the way that our ancestors lived their lives, when did they begin learning and when did learning end? It's really a lifelong process. And it begins, you know, it begins probably even before that baby is conceived because the parents have to be in the right place to be able to nourish that child's life when it's time. We have different stages in life. There's different things to learn in each of those stages. And sometimes even in life, you can, you could be one of those ones that your life completely, I don't know if you'd call it branching, but it completely changes direction, but it's still your path. So I think that's important when you look at, when you look at Anishinaabe Azu and the way that we live, it's lifelong, there's a purpose in every stage. And to me, that education, that way of learning would provide for a whole community in healing and in just living a lot better. What would your vision for Indigenous education look like over the next 10 years? 10 years, wow, just really limiting that whole lifelong process. There needs to be a starting point. And I think there's also already a middle point, right? And then there's people who are at the end point. So capturing all those different areas. So the beginning, the starting point would be ensuring that couples who are coming together, preparing to give life, that they be provided that opportunity to learn what their new roles would be as parents. And then looking at middle somewhere in the middle, whatever that middle is, because we don't all live to be very old. So whatever stage, whatever piece, whatever area of healing, each individual, each Anishinaabe person, each Indigenous person is at, making sure that they have that opportunity to learn about that middle part of their life. In their own communities, I think that's really important or some sort of access, right? And then in the end, when there is old age, when there is that elder, when there is that wisdom, constantly having people focus in on the knowledge that they still hold and not just capturing it, not just documenting it, but actually exercising it. Trying to bring it back to life, I think is what the focus areas would need to be over the next 10 years. What kind of information do you think materials, resources do you need or Anishinaabe people more so need to achieve that vision, aside from the funding? And I think you will explain a little bit on it already too, some of the things. So accessibility would be one area, right? And I know that younger people are very technologically inclined, but I think that needs to be held in balance with quiet stillness, land being out on the land and not just on the land, on the water, recognizing how we're connected to all of that. So resources, you'd need people who know, who know what to watch for the weather. When you got here today, you talked about those layers in the clouds. And I thought, yeah, we still have people who can read the skies and capturing that, that would be that end, that elder, that wise knowledge base that would need to be captured somehow and actually exercise the way you did today. That's a perfect example. So people, definitely, who still have the knowledge. However small it is too, I want to make sure that that's very clear because a lot of people don't think they have, because they don't have papers or letters or numbers behind their names that they don't have the knowledge. And I've always refuted that because when you really sit with that person and you really talk about all these kinds of things, they have a wealth of knowledge. All the answers are there. Language holders, people who can break down the language and however small they may know, bring more supports around to make that grow. I think that would be another excellent way of a resource or somewhere where something can be spent. Information, making it available online, but making sure that experiences, we can't depend so much on technology. We have to also have on-the-ground experiences. I would love a catalog, a catalog of who these people are, where they are. Some sort of program that supports, and not reinventing the wheel all the time, making it one and all accessible, looking at success stories. We have lots of success stories all over this country. Where are those success stories? How can we connect these people together to make our experience even that much better? You need water, land, people. A little bit of technology, language.