 Okay, it's it's going. Welcome everyone this is the February 24 already. Meeting of the joint capital planning committee and what I want to do on my see that we have a quorum and I want to make sure members of the committee can hear and be heard. I finished that I will ask for a volunteer for minutes to take minutes this evening so I'm just going to call out first, the members names on a. Present. For all. Here. Jennifer. Present. Mandy. Present. And her. Present. I'm just going to ask for a volunteer for minutes and it looks like you only have to volunteer once given the number of weeks we're meeting. Okay, Jennifer. Next time, Kathy. Jennifer, we'll send you right after this a link to the video and also the last minutes so you can just use that form and then create. I should know this, but can I download the last minutes from somewhere right now. I'll send you the last minutes as a word document so you can just use that and write over it. You're going to send it to me now. I will send it to you after this meeting. I'll see. Don't I need to have it now up before I start taking the notes, you know what I mean. I can send her the template. Are you just looking for the template Jennifer. That would be great. Thank you. I can email you the template. Okay, that's done. So Sean. Go on Anna. If I can I prep in advance. Can you send it to me if I'm going to do it for next time. Thank you. I will also send you a copy and word because it shows you just how we ordered. It's already got all of our names in it. It saves you some time. So, so with that said, I think Sean, you know the order that we're doing this evening and I see we have our guests who are here tonight to talk about the capital projects that have been proposed so why don't I let you take over the point. Sure. So we're going to start with finance and human resources. So the first one will be the, from our assessor Kimberly Mew, and she's going to speak to the project on the, I think it's a cyclical evaluation, which is listed there. So Kim, do you want to start and just a reminder where the format will be department heads will give sort of a brief overview of the project, and then open it up to questions and we'll go from there. So Kim, do you want to start with your project. Sure. So hello everyone. So I have the cyclical and revaluation project that we have put in for. And basically what it is is a state mandated program where the revaluation the state comes in. Every community in the state of Massachusetts has this and it reoccurs every five years. And what I am asking for is the extra funds to be able to complete this program, have the state have the state come in and go through our work, help us do the inspections that need to be done. And with the cyclical program, we have every 10 years, which is state mandated. And that is that we do inspections of at least 10% of our town, every 10 years, generally just to keep the data fresh and current. And most assessors like to try to do that within the last 10, excuse me, the last five or the last three years, depending on the size of their town. If it's a really small town they'd want to, you know, push it back to the two years but so we want to try to get that jumped ahead of the game so that we can have current data for this cyclical program. I'll open it up for questions of Kim. Sorry for my little guest. I see herbs hand is up or. Yes, Kim, would you specifically just give us a two minute overview of what you actually do in the cyclical, cyclical review. What do you do, what do you ask. Yeah, so what we're doing is so every single property in every single town and city throughout the state of Massachusetts has a 10 year, 10 year period, and each and every property is different. The minute that I, or one of our inspectors goes into the property, it starts the 10 year calendar so basically what we're doing is, we're taking our record card which we have in our camera system which is also available online. And we're just going through properties and verifying that our information is correct. We're looking at the style of the home. We're looking at the condition of the home down to the kitchen, the bathroom, you know so on and so forth. We're looking to see, for example, do they have asphalt shingles versus maybe slate, we're looking to see is it vinyl siding versus maybe would siding, you know those types of things just making sure that our data is accurate. And so every 10 years that this the state comes in and expects that we have done at least 10% of our properties in town. And so they come out and they will, they will do a verification of that through a process of things. Does that, does that help with what we're doing when we do the inspections or incredibly clear as to what you're doing and I think just for my own edification, it would be really good for us to review what exactly capital is as defined. And so we can, so we can have some guide here, Sean, if you can just read that little caption in terms of what capital is capital projects are. Yeah, so, so I think this one is similar. I think this one and the next one are the two that kind of fall into that category of maybe not attached to a physical structure. I will say this one in particular is one that has, it's, it's happened in the past this isn't the first time it's been brought forward it's. This is a this is a repeat request that's every so many years it's requested but the reading the current capital definition. So I think from project eligibility does talk about it being tangible assets are related to planning and or design work or tangible assets or related planning or and or design work so I think these two maybe don't fall into that definition. I think as well I will say one of the reasons why we bring them here is because we could add them into the operating budget but you'd be adding it for one year, and then taking it out the next year, and then a few years later you have to add it back in and take it out. It's not something and when it's in the operating budget, the amount doesn't carry over so you if you don't use it that year you lose it. And so these are things where they're tough to put in the operating budget because the flow of how we use the money is not the same as other operations these are sort of large one time contracts that hold us over for several years, and then we come back when once it's been fully. The funds have been fully used and we need to do the next evaluation they come back up. Same thing with the next one that you're going to hear about the HR study. That's not a recurring thing. We could add it to the operating budget, but then that means we're looking at other areas to reduce in order to add that to the operating budget for one year. So I think those types of things fit better in capital which are these one time projects that then you know we don't have to fund them again the next year. Mandy. Thanks, we have our definition of capital that we're not necessarily sure this falls into but would we be running into any state issues, you know or state definitions or requirements regarding capital expenditures versus operating expenditures. I don't know if we funded these things under capital like. I don't think so in terms of the amounts their capital they're you know their large amounts and single contracts that we would go out and procure. So I think it's really up to us in terms of how we want to define it. I guess I what I hear her phrase this last time to show and I mean Paul is listening in but it may be in the process that we're governing ourselves under we need to relook at the that definition and figure out how this is because this is as I understand it you're you're paying inspectors to go out it's it's This one would be this is to contract there's there's several appraisal companies out there that have staff and sort of teams of appraisers that can address large amounts of properties at once. And so every town usually has at least one contract with one of these firms to provide that sort of support for these periodic updates. So it would be a contract with an outside firm to do this. So your hand is still up but I think what you're you're asking is that we don't have a definition that seems to fit this. And so, yeah. More than that it's, you know, I'm not a fan of moving from one part of the budget, which would, for instance, the operating budget at the time, and putting into the capital budget. There's a financial need in one section one one part of the budget. And it assumes that there is no room or other areas of programs that could be funded and another party budget. So what I want what I'm wanting to do is to say hey look let's make a line here I miss because this is something that's going to continue to happen over and over again. I want to balance the budget, the operating budget as a result of putting a cost that would more normally be in operating budget you're putting it in the capital budget, then make that statement say hey, we're hurting over here and operating budget and we really would need some help by putting this over in the capital budget and that seems to me, what is happening. I think in these particular cases. There's a history of it or in this particular case there's a history of this specific activity being funded out of capital. But I do hear what you're saying and I think Kathy your point is a good one which is, we should review that definition and see if, if that's what we want to stay with, or if we want to consider modifications to it. I think we should move to the next project because and then, since we raise that question focus on questions about the project itself if that's okay with everyone. Yeah, because that'll apply for the next project as well. So, any final questions on. Sorry, go ahead Kathy. Any final questions on the cyclical evaluation project again this will be a, this would be a, an amount to hire a contractor to support the assessor's office and their, their, the update of all the properties that they have to work on. Which has been and this Kim can speak to a little bit a little bit of a unique time to because of the pandemic, the way we get access properties and do updates of properties has been. That's one area of the finance office that's been impacted the most. So I don't see any other hands so Kim, thank you. Thank you for joining us and sorry about my little guest. No, and no, and we'll see whether any of our houses fall into your 10%, you know. So, thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Kim. So the next one is from our HR director Donna Rick Neely she's going to speak to the compensation study. So hi everyone thank you so much for hearing about this request. This, my request was for a compensation study and the major goal of this project would be to develop support and maintain a fair and equitable classification and compensation system for Amherst municipal positions. And the study would include a variety of departments and divisions, and I think, primarily non union DPW supervisor and professional positions. There could be some analysis related to pay equity throughout the town for other positions that might be covered under a collective bargaining agreement. So the last study was done in 2013 so it's been nearly a decade and I think it might be the right time to review once again. The town has a stated compensation philosophy that the personnel board worked on and put forward and, and essentially it's stating to ensure that the overall compensation structure is at the 75th percentile when compared to other selected comparable and I'm just not sure if we're reaching that stated goal we might be we might be exceeding it, but it would be nice to have a study to help us through that to make sure we're in line. The studies really help to control costs that they help to make sure that we are ensuring internal equity, which is not only the right thing to do but it's the law. And it helps us very importantly to attract and motivate and retain our talent, and you know our employees are really important here for the work that we're doing of course. So that is why I put forward the request and does anyone have any questions. Questions. Mandy. Um, just to the first one is it says here it's for all departments is that just all town departments or does that include the school and library departments to. The second one is, does a compensation study also detail like size of departments like number of staff for a town our size things like that or is it really just about pay. So they, I mean so it could include that and this, I have to say, maybe I wasn't as thoughtful as they should have been when describing the project. So, I was thinking of town, not schools, and also really non union positions for the most part. Because of pay equity I do want to look at certain union positions when there's non union positions that are similar to just make sure that we're that we have pay equity in the town. And what was the other question did I whether it looks at the number of employees and departments and benchmarks that way to or just actual compensation. I think that's a great question and I think it would do. When I put out the request for, for bids I can put it out both ways and then just trying to see what we get back for, you know, I think that's a great idea. And it makes a lot of sense that would just add a little bit of cost to it so I when I put the bid out if it proves that I will make sure that I asked for that as well. Moving on to that. This one I think that the primary goal is the compensation levels to see how competitive our compensation levels are to other communities related to the position. We have in the past had separate staffing studies and Sonya maybe you can speak to that we have recently had a staffing study that looked more like the positions and the types of positions within certain departments. We had, we've had some small scale ones actually Donna could probably speak better to that than I can, but I just want to bring out, there isn't a specific category for these studies in the capital plan. We used to have three major buckets that we put things in equipment buildings in facilities, and I know buildings and facilities should be the same thing but they're not. One of the facilities is where we would put like a DA studies master plan updates discover list and price up personal property review and list real estate at UMass flood mapping revisions. We've always had these studies in the capital plan because they are pretty much a one time things that straddle more than one fiscal year so it's not. This isn't new. So, on a, on his hand is up. Thank you. Mandy asked one of my questions. So my other question is, you know, we heard the last one was done in 2013. How often do you anticipate returning with these types of studies, or this type of study specifically compensation study. I would hope that it would be another decade until we had to do another one if you know, because we have the ability and human resources of course as a single position comes up to review and Ray and we have the knowledge skills and abilities for, for those one offs that come up so I wouldn't think it would be for a number of years. And then my second part is, you know, I think one of the things that bothers not just me and this is not, I haven't seen this from Amherst, but is when people do these really great amazing studies, and then they know the answer but where's the action so I'm curious if this is part of a larger strategic initiative or what you plan on doing, based on the results and I understand that you may not be able to know exactly because you don't have them but I'm, I'm just curious what next steps would be after the study is done. That's an excellent question and so, and I just want to be clear that this study would not be trying to recommend any reductions in pay or benefits or take any positions away this is to make sure our compensation is in line. And then of course if we find out that we're out of line I'll be knocking on Sean and Sony's door asking for them to fix a problem and, you know, so that's, I would imagine that's what the result would be if we do find some issues of that need repair. Thank you. Her. Good question. Does the assessor's office have any kind of budget. This is, this is an HR now or are you back at the assessor. No, I'm asking the question, does the assessors. Yeah they have a yep they have a, they have a departmental budget. Right so why isn't this property evaluation under that assessors budget. They have a budget for a much smaller sort of annual need type budget for this type of thing I think this one again because it's every five year every 10 year type of activity it's not in their year to year budget because they don't need it every single year. And I really appreciate you saying that but but they're you know differential cash flows are always in order. And you know, and I know that at any year that this is coming up you can put it in the budget like we're putting in in the budget now when it comes up another time I know in an agency Sean, you would like to see it just flow like that, but in terms of where would fit in my mind is that hey of the assessor's office is part of as a property as part of an especially property evaluations and re evaluations and assessments that that would more more normally fall under that budget so I don't think it's here. And yeah, you know, so that's one question, but in terms of facilities. In terms of HR. I mean it's just a huge stress for me how HR could fall under facilities or any other area that's not that's related to capital. Yeah, I mean I think in both cases, if we had sort of unlimited flexibility to budget these in the operating budget each year, and not necessarily need to or not necessarily spend them we would I think the fact is we, you know, if we budgeted these each year, they wouldn't be spent they would be there and we'd have to figure out where they would go but the reason why we want capital is because it carries over from one year to the next so if we set a certain amount of it's uneven how it's spent and but it's designated for that specific purpose again if it was in the operating budget. These types of projects that we have to figure out how to get it all done within that year or or something I'm not sure how we would do it again these have been in capital in the past. And the reasons because they're distinct projects that are not every year they're expensive. They really don't fit in the operating side because they're not an annual operating expense. But I, and again I hear what you're saying it's hard to, I mean, I get that doesn't fit nicely into the definition of capital so we'll certainly take a look at it but I just don't see how we would put it into the operating budget either. I think from a organization standpoint and sort of what makes the most sense and what's most practical it fits more in line with capital and the way capital is spent. Donna is, you said the last such evaluation was done in 2013. Just speaking to Anna's point. So what kind of action was taken then. Well it looks like so what I could find I found a file on it I wasn't here at the time but I found a file and it looked like what they made some recommendations and it looks like some some the scale was adjusted up. In many instances the scale was adjusted up anywhere between 0.07% I think the highest one I noticed was maybe a 6%. Don't don't quote me on that because I don't have that right in front of me but so I do know that there were some adjustments made and they the report they offered that I was looking through was really detailed in terms of the other towns that they looked at the the functions of the of the positions to make sure that you're comparing kind of apples to apples oranges to oranges and and then they made their recommendations and then we either took them or we didn't it looks like but it does look like ultimately the scale was updated to reflect some of the changes recommendations. Thank you. Thanks. So, I don't see any other hands I just have a quick question when you take comparables. Do we have a set of towns municipalities that we look at and so would that be the same in 2013 and now. So I don't know whether how far to the east we go for how far to the west and Massachusetts we go. So Mandy asked the scope of employees but are we looking at municipalities that are at least as big as Amherst. So, it's just a question of how do we choose our bench benchmarking communities. And I think that'll definitely be something that I'll be looking for the consultant to recommend to us but what I'll provide is what we've used in the past but I would also want their opinion. Are we comparing the right communities are we, you know, right our wages are not the same as Boston and so we shouldn't be looking necessarily that way, but the town of Amherst is not, you know, I don't want to name any other town but you know we have a lot of different things that we do that maybe other towns don't do. So we want to find like communities and the right comparable so I think I'd be even looking. So I would say here's what we've done in the past. Do you think this still works for us and I would hope that they would give us their thoughts on that. And I probably get some guidance from Paul to. Thank you. Thank you. So, I, is your hand still up from before or did you. Okay, I think, I think I'm looking across. I don't, I think that ends the questions. Thank you all for your time. Thanks. Thank you. So the next department is school technology and Jerry is joining us he's very mad at me for scheduling this on April vacation week. But he's joined us from somewhere tropical was my guess. Yeah, that's not my spare room behind me at all. So. So yeah, good evening. Thank you for having me. So, let me just switch screens real quick. Thank you for hosting this year's request. It was modified slightly from what I submitted last year based on kind of the events over the last two years, which included. And then the transfer funds that other different coven related funds that were applied to equipment purchases during the remote learning, which then those devices were retained and spill over now into our, you know, in person. So there's really just two broad categories, which are the technology infrastructure categories and then the quote unquote multimedia equipment. So the larger by far is the technology infrastructure categories, and that's broken down into many subcategories. But this year, kind of distilled it down into four critical areas that we're looking to replace the equipment. The largest is the computer laptop tablet replacements, which we have a number of devices, most specifically, teacher laptops that are aging and failing at an increasing rate. The majority of the laptops out there now are Lenovo Model T 450, which dates back to January of 2015 when they were initially released. Seven years for laptop is quite something. And when we bought those we've got them off lease at the time so they weren't brand new and we got them but and they've served us well but now they're starting or starting to see some attrition in those devices. One of the problems we've had this year. And I'm sure a lot of people have our supply chain issues, especially as related to technology equipment. I could not find new laptops that were comparable to the equipment we've been purchasing in the past, or major manufacturers specifically in Lenovo or Dell, we were having trouble buying. So, we're keeping going what we have for now and when supplies have improved will hopefully be replacing the devices then. The other big item on there is projectors. Every classroom has a digital projector. The majority that we have now are this one model that we bought, I think about eight years ago now that were Epson for 60s. Those had problems initially the company extended the warranty quite a bit. But we saw a lot of failures at the beginning of this year. They were sitting idle for a year. When we were remote they came back we use a couple months and then sitting again. When we started back in September we saw quite a few die and could not get projector replacements I just received projectors two weeks ago that I ordered in September and that was only 10 of them. We backfilled with some large screen TVs, a couple people opted for interactive flat panels, but most teachers don't like the large screen TVs because they have to give up their whiteboards for that and that doesn't work well with the way they teach. So we're looking to start replacing these older T for 60 models over the next couple of years. I have 44 of those in service currently, or a few less now because we replaced some. So replacing them with newer laser projectors which means they don't have recurring costs of projection lamps at run about $1,800 each so we're looking at 79,000 over the next few years. So I've split that out over a couple of years here. We are also looking to upgrade our wireless network which has been in place for a few years now. I have equipment that I ordered in September, and I haven't received yet, and maybe that marks they said, but there's no bet on that. So and it's other manufacturers are experiencing the same supply issues. I'm ordering ruckus HP Aruba is having issues and others as well on some of my list serves and message boards is just a common thread that know we're still waiting for parts and stuff. So that is the switch line which supports the wireless access points and then the wireless access points line. So we likely still have money's left over that we haven't spent yet because I can't get the items. So the lower figure for this year reflects just kind of the remainder that we have to procure. So that brings us down to about $190,000 based on estimated prices when I created this. There are two lines or multimedia replacing warm dead which you don't know that up front and then document cameras, there's not really much demand for interactive whiteboards anymore. But these are just some of the other pieces I've been able to find some document cameras that are less expensive than we were putting in so this number could probably be lowered over time. Great for the items for this year. Any questions. Questions from the committee. Mandy. Yes, a couple of questions. I have a couple of questions. I have a couple of a building project right now that is going to relate to the elementary schools and get rid of one school hopefully that's what the building committee will recommend so that we consolidate into a 575 student school and have two remaining schools as of 2026, which is part of this five year plan. And are you ensuring that as you purchase these new projectors and stuff that you're not purchasing more than there will be classroom space for come 2026. And what, and the next question is regarding the wireless upgrades, are you looking at upgrading wireless for schools that we're going to be mothballing soon and if so, what considerations regarding that project have gone into that potential need for upgrades. And then the final question is, this is over the five year plan has over a million dollars in school it technology in the next five years. That's a lot. What are we doing with the old technology that is being replaced to get back some of that money and because it sounds like the TVs at least and some of these other things might actually be usable and saleable. What are we doing to ensure that we're getting, you know, sort of as much money as we can from old technology since it seems like there's a whole lot being replaced year in and year out. Okay, three questions. You can remind me if I forget one part. So, the building project, you're estimating 2026 or the estimate right now is that it's available already. I would guess you're talking for fall of 26. That's still four years down and technology, typically you get about a five year lifespan for a lot of the technology out here. We tend to extend it much further. We extend it as far as we can. As I said, the laptops I'm looking to replace this year were first released in January of 2015 and they were purchased around that timeframe. So those are going seven years old. The projectors we're looking to replace now are much older. Five years into the technology world is a long time to predict what the technology at the moment or the new technology that's available will be at that time based on what teachers are using now and what their demands are and what we purchased in the past and what they've decided they don't want. I still see projectors being used. I don't know that we're going to reduce the number of classrooms significantly. Okay, even with the larger 575 school. As a matter of fact, this year I've had to create a lot of extra classrooms due to the reduction of the quads to duplexes at Wildwood Fort River. Those students in those classes had to go elsewhere. So we were pressing rooms that were used for other things into service that needed projectors or large screen TVs. I had to put TVs, the look because there are no real walls some out projectors in in the cafeteria is that Wildwood Fort River. For example, so that's a good one. There was some ELL rooms that were placed into services classrooms issue that did not have projectors before they didn't want them and didn't need them. I initially got a TV for that because that's all I could get and the teacher hated it. I finally got a projector and we put a projector in about two weeks ago and move that TV to another cafeteria that they needed a device. So everything that we have right now is being reused. The projectors we're taking out of service are dead. That's why they're being removed from service. We're not just upgrading them just to upgrade them. They've either had significant failures or in the it's called the light engine, or the optics are one of those things so we don't replace projectors just because they're getting old we replace them because they failed. And a lot of the projectors, all of the projectors were replacing are the older four to three ratio kind of like your old CRT TVs. So the projectors are coming in our new widescreen which reflects the laptop screen so you get a better quality picture. They're also much brighter, which allows the teachers to not have to shut all the lights up in the classroom. So that's the thing about the projectors. The other question is about technology when we replace Chromebooks for example, they are end of life. So Google has a set window for upgrading Chromebooks, you're given updates for five to six years depending on when it's released. After that time, no more updates, which doesn't sound like a big deal to say no more updates. However, certain programs we run like the DRC insight testing application, or the test nav application for the MCAS requires Chrome of a specific specific version and up. If you don't have that won't run. So that's why we replace the Chromebooks at a regular basis. Unfortunately, because their end of update. They have very little residual value. We actually have, I think upwards of 1000 Chromebooks right now that were cataloging any of those that surplus equipment is placed on this surplus equipment list. Ben Harrington's actually been kind of overseeing that process. We give him a list. He places it on the surplus equipment list and people bid on that. So we get whatever residual monies. We can get if it's region it goes to the fund. If it's Amherst it goes back to the town that doesn't go back to the school system at all. You know, we didn't directly does over time but not directly. So that's what happens with the old equipment we can't just sell it on the on the, you know, private market because that's not what the state law requires as far as my understanding goes. As far as the wireless goes. Again, we're talking four to five years for the new school. I don't see a problem if the technology is still current, which hopefully it will be but I can't guarantee that of removing you know the wireless access points from the ceilings or wherever, and mounting them in the new school. Without having final plans yet. We don't know what we're going to need in the new school. One of the things I've seen this year in all the schools, not just the elementary but more so at the secondary level is because every student now has a device. Okay, as the elementary they don't bring them home, but every student has a device even kindergarten we have enough iPads for every student in every classroom. So the number of devices has exploded. We have also seen the demand that not a demand but the request by Paris to have Chromebooks available to them because we pulled a lot of desktops out of service. Once we started adding these Chromebooks for all the students. So the number of desktops has gone down but now we see Paris requesting Chromebooks, because they needed a device to be able to work on to be able to work on with their students and for their students excuse me is a second. So we've seen an increase in devices so now we have all these wireless devices accessing these wireless access points and to support that we've had to add some access points as well. So we've only seen an increase in demand for the wireless system over the year. We never envision to me. The cafeterias would be used as classrooms we had to add access points to cover the cafeterias, for example. So we've increased the number of access points and I believe the new building is going to be at least two stories and now I have to worry about covering coverage over the two full stories, as well as whether whatever common and delivery spaces we have. So without final plans for the building I can't say how well equipment we're going to be buying this year, if it ever becomes available and next are going to cover that. But it, whatever we have may be available that I can't predict that with any sort of. And I'll just add quickly. I think that's a good question that we can raise that our next building, Kathy and I can bring to our next committee meeting is how does that work. I mean, there's no project approved at this point so I think it's hard to make any actions at this point but it coming hopefully coming soon there will be and how does how is that looked in other communities where one school is closed what type of, you know I know there's is a budget within the project for buying furnishings and technology. But how much can be brought over from the existing schools if it's in good shape so Kathy and I can bring that question back, because I think that is a good one we should start thinking about other questions or the other day I had the good fortune to virtually go through a school that I was a founding teacher at, and they were looking at the new technology that was in place there. And one of the most remarkable things was the role. Now, a virtual reality in classroom instruction and how phenomenal. It is, it isn't it is a disruptor. One thing that is, if we do not plan for in our future buildings. We will be short changing our kids. The technology is leapfrogging every two years and doubling in its capacity. People do not know what I mean by virtual reality would really invite you to just go on Google or anything else and check it out because it is a major force and will be a major force. And I think this panel here needs to understand that when this new in terms of this new building that there are technologies that are now in play that will be even more sophisticated before this building is even built. Other questions or comments. I have just one Jerry, when you did the piece of paper we have to review has one figure on it Sean, and you seem to be reading off a list of so many of this and so many of that. So, when the capital budget of this amount goes through, are you feel left fairly flexible on it turns out you spending more on the it access points, less on the Chromebooks, or more on the this or more. I think it works because we're looking at a collected amount of money rather than line items. So I'm, it's just sort of a question of your own flexibility because, as you said supply chains are coming in so you may get some things in and not other things. Does this leave you flexible. Yes. I have always been flexible. I've always been. I think if you look at kind of the history of how I spent and not always spending it all in the year that I requested it has been flexible I tend to try to find the best value. I can, and the best prices. So when I predict the price. That's based on the going price when I put the request together. But when time comes and I put the different vendors against each other to get quotes, then it may change. So, I may be able to save money here and there. So, so it's always in flux technology equipment and pricing is always in flux. It's not as bad as cars right now, but the prices have gone up over the past year unfortunately because of supply and demand. And I'd like to address one more time, Mandy's question about moving the technology over. I, with a new building I think you'll be surprised at how the technology is going to change just in the building itself. I live in East Hampton we're just almost done building our K to eight school. Everything in that building that can be controlled runs over the network so the lights, the speakers, the P, you know, the entire PA system that clocks. Everything runs over the network so when you say okay this is what we have in the existing building, you're going to find that's going to be wholly inadequate. When looking at the new school, are we going to put security cameras in the new school. Well, those run over the network we have them at the secondary but not at the elementary now. So, going forward, you're going to see a market increase in the technology level of the school. Thank you. All right, do you want me to go the next. Thank you so much Jerry. I think, yes. So, Sean Hannon is up next for town IT. Thanks. I'm pretty simple this year. But the biggest part is the infrastructure improvements, similar to what Jerry experienced as we paired that down this year. We fortunately were able to buy a fair number of laptops and some other equipment early on. It cares money and other money and so we paired that down to $75,000 for primarily for PCs and wireless access points. We typically have a server in there and we were able to remove that. We've got $10,000, which is under other department requests that this year specifically for computer workstations for the communication center for the dispatchers in the police department those run 24 seven and so we, we don't wait for those to fail to replace them so we replace them. Of all the computers in town we replace them the most often they tend to be more expensive because they're a little beefier. And then we have the library, which is $42,000. That's for wireless access points computers. A photocopier. That's what, that's what goes into that. So I have to say about it. So I think that's one of the questions. Mandy. Basically my same to Sean. Sure. What do we do with all of our old tech. Do we, you know, and then, because there's a lot every year right if we're spending $650 to a million dollars every five years on tech there's a lot of old tech. So the library equipment wireless access points and all do you foresee them being able to be used in the new building or what, what, what's that planning process going on now that we're actually approved and moving towards building and renovating and expanding the Jones library. Yeah, so for the first question we start to what Jerry was saying by the time we're done with technology, it's pretty banged up and it's lost most of its value but we are working with procurement so we just through accounting, but we just are getting ready to wrap up our major phone site and so we have 300 plus phone handsets that are 12 to 15 years old, but because their phones there's, there's going to be some value so they will go out to through the through account and they'll go out to essentially an auction site. So we'll try and recruit, recruit what we can and if we get five bucks a phone out of it and it's, you know, it's something. Essentially they go out to an auction site so we get, you know, hopefully get market value for it and so we'll continue to do that annually with any equipment just kind of stockpile it and get rid of it all at once. And as far as the library. We coordinate that with library staff so we will. We will likely wait to purchase computers until they'll be in a temporary location and figure out if it makes sense to buy computers from when they move in there when they move back and then also coordinate with with them what the technology can be purchased with mblc money. My recollection from 15 years ago working in Worcester as the center the network equipment was included in that and the computers were not so make sure that we only buy stuff that essentially we need to pay for rather than what could be paid for with mblc money. Two questions. The first is looking out at the project project, sorry, not probably. My God, not even 9pm project cost summary. It jumped significantly in fiscal year 24 and then to 25 and then it stays pretty consistent. Can you explain why this year is so much lower than those years. I'm not asking you to add more to be clear. I'm just curious. And then the other question I have is, you know, this says replacements of PCs and things like that. And I'm curious if there was consideration given for this changing work world and the need for folks to be able to work from home and remotely and how that shifted your, your ask here. So as far as, as far as why you see the changes year to year we, we have different replacement cycles that things are on and so where you see the big jump for FY 24 is when we expect after replace some of the servers in our, in our data center so and some of the network and equipment and that's why that's why you see that we also in an effort to keep this this year a little bit leaner, we shifted a little bit out to next year so that's why that's why you see that and we luckily, or fortunately this year, we're, we're seeing some of the benefits of the cares money paying for a lot of equipment so which kind of leads into the work from home. On during the pandemic, we purchased a large number of all one workstations and laptops to send home with staff. So they could work from home and many of those who are the majority of them are back in the office now so that a lot of them have, have brought that equipment back in and so it just gets re kind of goes back into the pool and gets reused for other offices in town as we need it. As far as anticipating more work from home. There's not. Luckily it's not a lot. There's not a lot of it costs to equipment for that because we kind of we, we tend to shift. When we had people working from homes at home they did not have a computer at work and so we kind of had some flexibility and, and where the equipment was and we give them a laptop rather than a desktop and they could use that at home or we are, we are looking as more and more of the software and services we use is in the cloud we are looking at, you know, get more flexibility with so many people work primarily in email and files now that they for a lot of users for some departments, it really doesn't matter whether they're on the town network or, or just on public Wi-Fi somewhere so that makes it easier as well as the, the phone system we, we've moving, we've moved to gives us a lot of flexibility and where people use their phone so we have staff who work from home and the, the phone that they have on their desk at home is their 259, you know their regular office number that you just pick that up and someone they call out they're not calling out as their cell phone they're calling out as their, their office number. That answered your question. Yeah, I think that does answer I mean the only other thing that comes to mind is just, are there anticipated infrastructure needs for continued hybrid meetings and things like that that are factored in here or may need to be factored in in the future. Yeah, so we, we luckily addressed some of that in in one of the meeting rooms in town hall and quite frankly it's more of a hybrid meetings more of an operating cost just in terms of staffing. But there's the, luckily that the AV costs of things we, we, we had redone the town room right at the beginning of the new council so we, we were very fortunate and we had everything we needed to support hybrid meetings there. So we, we certainly could do that in another other rooms if we needed to. Thank you. Thanks. Sean, Sean, are you in the bathroom that you're redoing right now. I was going to ask about bathroom laptops but it seems like not the appropriate thing. I just while we were talking on redoing the bathroom and I say this looks like a shower curtain I was just checking. No, it is actually a shower curtain now it's a it's a little nook that my wife, we redid so that have space that wasn't. Okay, just invaded by kids. Maybe next year. So, are there any other questions for Sean on town it. I don't think so I think it's quite remarkable what you've been able to do Sean so thank you, including thanks to people they can't figure out how to make their equipment work the way it's supposed to work. I'm very fortunate to have the funding that we get as well as the staff that we have it makes it makes my life a lot easier. My job a lot easier. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks Sean. So the next department is the police department and Scott is here gave is also in the audience I'll promote him if you want to come in. Scott, do you want to go over the cruiser purchase. Sure. So, yeah my request is pretty straightforward and basic as well it's for for replacement hybrid patrol vehicles. So, it's for all of the SUV types, all wheel drive, and the total package of the request includes like the markings and everything that goes associated with the lights and all that stuff so that request amount is for everything included in each vehicle so the cost has gone up significantly. Not just for vehicles but for hybrid vehicles in particular so it's even changed since we first but in the proposal originally so you know we're trying to adapt to the, what's going on in the in the nation and in the world. When it comes to the cost of vehicles so that's kind of where we are and I'll entertain questions. Sure. Chief Livingstone what, how old and in what condition are the vehicles that these are intended to replace. So typically the years for the patrol vehicles they last about a year and a half to two years, and they all have at least 100,000 miles on them. In some cases it's 120,000 to 140,000 but that 100,000 mile benchmark is about where we try to replace them because that's where the expensive items start breaking down things like transmissions and drivetrains and engines and brakes and that sort of thing so you know to replace an engine it's like $25,000 so you know it's typically two years 100,000 miles. Very quickly they are highlighted in the, in the inventory so for the most part the ones that will be replaced as Chief Livingstone described it will be over 100,000 or near 100,000. There are a couple that are slated for replacement that are just really old. There's one that's from 1997 and doesn't quite have the high mileage but it's in poor condition. Mandy. Yeah, a couple of questions. It looks like this year's plan is for the, is this the one for the extra car replacement number one, because I think there's always every so many years, an extra car. And second costs have definitely gone up hopefully they'll come back down before you actually have to order these cars but if not what is the new cost like is this 260, how much lower is that number than what the costs are right now like what are we potentially looking at the Council's already dealt with some fire truck replacements and needing to add money to last year's or this fiscal year's appropriations for vehicles so what would that new number be and should we be putting that into this request. And then I'm going to ask you Scott chief, because there's no department on this list at this point, but the new crest department. I know the plan initially was to buy some vehicles for that and that's on a different sort of funding schedule. But, and maybe it's not for the chief it's for Sean and Paul, will we get a capital program that includes the crest department at some point and what the expected capital purchases over the next five years are for that. And then, could some of these vehicles be transferred to that program, if it's deemed that could be doable once the program that that department gets up and running and and more information is obtained about staffing levels between the two departments. Scott, do you want to start with I can, I can address the crest question, if you want to weigh in, feel free. So, yeah, I'll answer the first few questions man Joe. So yes, this is a for you for vehicle replacement year, and that happens every fourth year. So we change our vehicles every year and we change that I think when I became chief so 10 years ago we went to 333 and four, and it's worked for the most part it's worked. And, and then the cost analysis is, we think we overestimated just a little bit. So we're hoping that what a child what do we come in at 65 per vehicle. Yeah, so we're thinking it'll be around 60 to 62, and that'll outfit every vehicle so we're hoping that there'll be money coming back on that end. From what we're hearing from our supplier that's the cost. And what was the third question replacement so, you know, we typically the ones that were replacing get turned over and we get a small stipend from the supplier. It's typically in the average of $2,500 for a vehicle it's not a lot. But again that money goes back towards the general fund. So any money that we get from for a turn in vehicle goes back to the town but we've, I don't think we I don't think we just like turn them over to other agencies anymore, or excuse me, other departments. We did that here and there didn't seem to pan out too well. So, and then the other area that if if the vehicle came in more expensive because of the sustainability or the hybrid technology we do have the sustainability pot of funds that were proposing as well that we could consider. On the crest front so, as you noted that's sort of on a different timeline we're looking to the funding for for the vehicle purchases or the vehicle purchase for now for that program is either either going to come from the DPH grant the Department of Health grant that we required last year, or from ARPA. And so I know they're in the process right now over viewing what types of vehicle, what type of the type of vehicle that they would want. And, and I think once they're, once they settle on an option we would look to how we would purchase it. But the funding source would be again a sort of on a different cycle just because of the, the timing of how that department's coming together. In terms of future capital needs if there are other capital needs identified. They will be a department that is created on this capital plan. I know there's going to probably be some technology, a lot of the upfront costs again are going to come from the grant grants that I described. In terms of ongoing regular capital, it will be part of the plan. And one other thing I would just add, because I think it's important because I used to get asked a lot about hybrid vehicles. And, you know, we were, we purchased those as soon as they were available. We have been notified by our suppliers which is Ford and Chevy for the most part. We have been able to participate us being able to have a electric patrol type vehicle within two to three years so I've notified Sean and Stephanie that we need to start thinking about, you know, substantial charging station purchases as well so that's down the road. Hi, so I apologize if this is a redundant question I was trying to find my inventory and there's too many tabs open in my life right now so are you looking at the list of the inventory you've got four vehicles that are sorry. You've got a couple vehicles that are listed as poor and I'm curious if this one of these SUVs is intended to replace the Chevy Silverado truck that you had listed as in poor condition or if you're only replacing vehicle for vehicle like you're only replacing SUV for SUV. So, we typically will replace just vehicle for vehicle. So I wanted to replace a pickup truck with a plow attachment. We typically plow our own facility. Okay, I was going to say, what do you use that for. Okay. And we also use it for other things like we have a couple of trailer accessories that we need to tow from time to time. So, the DBW does a great job when they can get to us when it comes to plowing and sanding but for the most part we've kind of been self sustainable when it comes to snow removal and things of that nature. Got it. So, but these four are replacing for currently current SUVs. Correct. Got it. Thank you. Yeah, and Scott maybe we might have to connect and just review that together. Because I think in our inventory I have, I have two SUVs but I do have a van to trucks or a van so we might just have to make sure. Yeah, I thought I'm going to update the inventory. I thought last year was supposed to be the truck replaced me here so we might have, we might have pushed that back Sean. Yeah, just to go back to I have just a question on your experience with the hybrids and longevity. And we said replacing engines. Do these potentially last longer but you have to replace batteries. So have you had enough of use of them and then going with sort of Mandy's question of, if at 100,000 miles or 105,000 miles they're not good for chasing down the street as a police vehicle. Well, in pretty good shape for not high speed driving. Could we be thinking of repurposing them when down the road with crests with which they will be having different types of outings so I, I don't know quite how to ask that question I mean it for the usability we have we have a hybrid that's well over 100,000 miles and is only needed. No engine issues it just had needed the small battery not the main battery replaced so. Yes, so Kathy I don't I don't know the answer that yet. As far as the sustainability of a hybrid vehicle, you know we the ones we've been using have been working really great. They don't. We haven't had a whole lot of engine issues with them. This actually seems like the gas engines were worse quite frankly, because when they're idling at a crash scene for instance, you know if you're there for an hour. They're obviously not using the gas part of the engine so they're idling at a very low rate and which is a good thing. And so, could we possibly pass those on to other departments, we may be able to do that. I haven't answered that yet. Crests. We've been talking about with their new vehicle and as Sean mentioned, they're, I think the request was certainly for an electric vehicle. What we're finding is the vehicle they want which is a small for for passenger van type vehicle in electric is, we can't get one it's just, we've been looking looking looking in it. To order one now we're nine months out. So, we're figuring we're going to have to probably get initially a hybrid vehicle for them. And then in the following year get an electric vehicle. I see Stephanie has her hand up she's probably responding to link to my question. Stephanie. Thank you Kathy. Yes, I just wanted to point out that we do have a green fleets policy in the town. Because we're a green community, we had to adopt this green fleets policy, and that requires us when a vehicle is being replaced that it can't automatically be passed along, unless it meets the green green fleets policy fuel efficiency standards. So, I can't tell you off the top of my head what all those are certainly hybrid vehicles would would certainly fall under that category and could be passed along, but we'd have to make sure that if a vehicle is, is, is being passed that it meets the fuel operating that we have in our policy. Otherwise, we could potentially could potentially negatively impact our green community standing. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. I'm not seeing any other questions or hands up. Thanks so much Scott. We can wish you happy driving. Thanks everybody appreciate it. Alright, so I'm going to bring Jeremiah in. So Jeremiah and Stephanie will take on the last department which is facilities. One thing I'll point out before we dive into facilities, some people may have done the math if you add up all of the interior exterior improvement projects and what is in the capital plan. And that's because we've asked Jeremiah to try to prioritize those different requests within that number so again you'll see multiple interior exterior improvement projects with different numbers in the documentation forms. And those would all sort of be prioritized within the allocation that's been established for it. But with that, I will turn it over to Jeremiah and Jeremiah when you get to the sustainability one Stephanie's on hand to address that one. Okay. So I, is there, is it possible to share my screen I put together just a presentation. I did last year and just makes it easy for me to, you know, compose my thoughts. I think you should be able to now go to shop. Jeremiah you have no arms. They're in here somewhere. I don't have any commitment to the virtual background of I think what is town hall. Yeah, this is, this is what you would see if you're sitting at my desk. That's good. I like that. Is it giving you the ability Jeremiah or not, not, I don't see it. No, so it did expand when I look into the view but I'm going to make you a host I think that should give you ability to do that. Before you. I'm going to take host back because I don't want you to leave and then exit the meeting. Just make him co host with you. Yeah, I think that gives you the ability to share if you're co host right. Yep. When you click share at the bottom it's saying that you don't have access or let me see here. Good. I'm going to run through some things around. All right, can everyone see that. Yes. So I'm going to run through a lot of the items that I have going on here. So this is the facilities departments requests. The first one off is the building automation. So this is an HVAC system upgrade. We have a building automated system this helps us with our HVAC systems we're able to control and monitor the buildings. As far as heat cooling ventilation. In some cases we can monitor the lighting. And so we have a system that is is very antiquated. Our building automated system is lives on two servers. So one of those services over at APD and the other servers is at the North fire station. The challenge that we're having now is that the server and the software that's running them is no longer supported. So we have these desktop computers that are running Windows seven Microsoft isn't supporting Windows seven at all anymore. So we've we've or I shouldn't say we but the IT department has been so so great with with trying to keep these running as long as possible. We've had many many issues where the system would freeze. And when that system freezes we really don't have any more control over HVAC system. So what happens is in those instances is it essentially is just running. At the exact controls that it was left with. So in most instances that's probably not a bad thing, but if there were there was any drastic changes in temperature, whether they be increased or decreased in the environment. I'm not able to make any of those changes. The servers are starting to break down. We've recently the most recent was I think like the power system on one. And thankfully James and it was able to get the system back running. But the amount of work that the IT department has has done over the years to keep these running it's just been tremendous. And it's it really is time to replace them. So what would we be doing is we'd be eliminating both of those servers, we'd be shifting that that all that information over to the the IT's network their infrastructure, and then it would go cloud base. So we have the ability to operate our HVAC system off our mobile devices off our laptops. So we can be either on premise, or, or at our home so we're able to monitor everything. 24 hours a day. So with those upgrades we also get escalation so if there was an issue, we would have that sort of notification and escalation emails would be sent out saying that this system is offline. So it just creates a lot of a lot more flexibility and stability. And it also allows us to upgrade to with backnet. And backnet is just sort of has two avenues for the information one is sending the controls all the information and the other sort of the return so it that is how modern systems are so it will allow for this modern, modern upgrades for the future. Okay, so the request there is 55,900 and Sean if you don't mind I'll just run through each of them and then open it up for questions after the North Amherst school HVAC system upgrade and the request is for 35,000. In that image there you can see our two furnaces over at the North Amherst school. We do have some capital funding. Currently it's 25,000. I have in funding in the request is to get additional funding so that I can completely eliminate these two natural gas burning fire burning furnaces and put in some air air source heat pump system. That's 60,000 won't won't be able to change over the entire building. But what I'm trying to do is sort of, you know, eat the elephant a bite at a time so this system here is is in the is the most critical. The furnace on on your left hand side is completely decommissioned. And we have harvested a bunch of the parts in order for the furnace on a right hand side to run. I did, I did polish them up for you before I took the photo. So that is that is a system so I really would like to get an air source heat pump system for that lower level. Most of the lower level is used for town, the town storage we store a lot of our files there. There's HR there's legal there's building inspections planning. A number of our critical departments are storing their files there those are long term storage and also we have community action and is in the basement and they have their wick program down there. So it would it would help me to eliminate this, these fossil fuel furnaces, and go with electrifying this this section of the building. And Jeremiah is the second story head start. The second story is head start yeah and they have that there's an independent system up there it's an attic, and that also is natural gas burning. But that that that furnace, it's a horizontal furnace that one's in much better condition, and is running quite well. Eventually that would that will be the ass so then I would eliminate all the fossil fuels in that building, but to do the entire building would probably be around 150 $160,000. Just a little out of time. Yeah, but but we, the ask is to take care of this do it in the highest energy efficient and eliminate fossil fuels without you know so I'm trying to do the absolute best I can with with what we have in a critical situation. Jeremiah we have a question on do you want to wait till the very end for questions or do you want to take them as they come. It's, it's, it's up to there might be too much if we wait till the end so I'm happy to answer any questions if you want to do that. Kathy is it okay if. Okay. I have a question for the minutes what is the name of the community action program that's in the basement. It's the wick, the wick. And sorry and as long as I have the floor, what is the North Amherst School, I feel like I should know that, but I don't know what that building is. It's right across from the library, do you know where the North Amherst library is. There's an old school right across the street. Yeah. Jennifer had the same question when they came before CPA last year I was like, feels like do we have another school that I had no idea existed. So, my question is about the first one sorry, I'm going to back us up a little bit. And, and it might be for you Jeremiah but it might be for Stephanie and the application. And it said, you know, there's the potential for grants and utility subsidies for this type of thing. I'm just curious what the capacity of our staff is to seek those grants out if that's a realistic thing that we can look for, or not for that project. Who wants to take that but I'm going to just. Well, we've we've already. And I've already been exploring some of this and this is something that I've brought to Sean to and even through the, the cares funding and some of the other federal programs. We've, we've been in trying to get some, some of this funded through through those. I think Stephanie would be much better at answering whether or not some of those are through the avenues that she typically looks at finding these funding from there's there's always ever source and in Berkshire gas that that that do help with these but since its controls it's a little bit more challenging. They want to see equipment be replaced. And I don't know that. I don't know that they all, everyone always sees the benefit of the control side of it there's there's so much efficiency that can be built within systems just on the controls, where even if you were burning, you know, number six oil that you just with your controls alone that you can you can create a more efficient building and a more efficient equipment. Well, I'd love to hear Stephanie sats on this and then I also have a follow up on that. Sure. Well, I was just going to say that for this type of funding we typically go through our green communities grant for efficiencies. And the problem is that the North Amherst school is actually not on our baseline inventory. This is a decision process that we had way back in 2012 when we put it together but I honestly can't recall why we didn't have that particular building included. But so that so that this funding would be really important because we can't use that grant source for that project. We can use it for others, but we can't. We can't use it for a North Amherst school. But the other projects in other buildings we absolutely and have applied for green communities funding. The problem is sometimes the timing, the timing doesn't always work. When you need to, you know, when Jeremiah needs to address some failing system, the timing doesn't always work with the grant funding we're just magically aligns so we do have to try to as much as we can plan ahead. And we do have a grant cycle coming up. I think we're going to be looking to the fall for a next application. And we will be looking at some of these projects but sometimes even with the funding that we have it's not always enough and so you know we can we can look to the grant funding to help supplement some of that if the timing is right. So, and Stephanie you kind of are getting at my second question wait so just to clarify that the one that's on the screen now. This one would not be a potential grant. A North Amherst school. No, that this one's APD and North fire. Sorry, I can't. No worries. So this is the HVAC system upgrade for the servers that potentially could be potentially so each year green communities adjusts what they will and will not fund, and it's not consistent every year so I think I noticed that HVAC systems HVAC systems can be funded through the program. So for instance, lighting was historically always covered under the green communities program they've discontinued that funding now so you know so there's no more LED lighting retrofits unless it's schools. So, you know I think I believe that they may but again the timing has to work because we would apply in the fall. By the time you actually get the grant it might not actually be until, you know, 23 well into 23 that we actually get the funding. So then Sean my other question thank you Stephanie. That was really helpful so then Sean my other question is, when we're asking this question about are there grants available. Is it, I mean is it hypothetical like are we expecting folks to apply for grants and then reimburse for money that the grant, they get from a grant like how does that, and this is kind of more of a process question. How does that work with the grant. Yeah, I mean we asked that question because it gets asked here a lot. So we want we want department heads thinking about it as they're preparing the request for the following year. To at least consider it if there are grants. I think if, if they, if there was a grant available for this and this project was approved and then a grant became available. Yeah we have to depend on the grant whether or not we could just say we're not going to use the capital article and we would move forward with the grant. Sometimes there's there's issues around supplanting and things like that if there's local funds that have been earmarked for and then a grant comes in so I guess before we do allocate funds we do want to be careful. And sort of commit to it, I think at that point. Okay, thank you. And real quickly, just to speak on on that a little bit more on is, is with most of us, these equipment, when you're when you're looking for when I'm looking for incentives, I'm typically having to do sometimes engineering studies, or energy audits, and that all happens. And it's, it's like, I'm calling people up and saying hey I have this great idea. I want to replace, you know, XYZ equipment. Is there any money out there for me. And they had they really like to be in that at that stage of the project. And they go out and have a look at everything. And then they start to, to start figuring out, is there money out there for this project, are there incentives from, from our utility companies or are there other opportunities like green communities and, and then that's where we build into it so it's tough we you look at even say mass save for for commercial and business. They'll have language in there that says well, we will do weatherization, and we'll do insulation. But then as as Stephanie can tell you some of those items on there are extremely difficult to get any incentivization for or any money for. I don't want to be like well why do you have it listed, you know, it's there that means I want to I want to try to, you know, use that that an opportunity, but it's challenging their stuff for controls, but it's just, it's a difficult one to get money for. I don't want to force you like to, you know, to say you're going to grant fund something when we don't know if that is reality so. I have I usually you have to bring them in as early as possible to hopefully get any incentives or any money. And really, I think sometimes it does build but they are there before you, or you start spending any of the money. And I'll just add is sometimes for these types of projects are rebates, you know, a little bit different than a grant where we could offset the cost of the project if, you know, if it qualifies for some type of rebate through the utility or some other program. Her question. Are these two programs the major ones in there. Are they under some kind of lease arrangement. And if so, what is the length of their lease. No, they're not there. It's, it's, it's our essentially our equipment at this point. No, I'm talking about the program. Yes. The servers. No, no, you're doing the school. Oh, yes, I my apologies. Yeah, North Amherst school as a topic we were on. Yes. Yes, it is. It is a lease agreement. I don't know what the terms of that maybe Sean, Sean, I don't have it off the top of my head we'd have to pull it up but they but they have been renting the space for quite some time. Yeah. There's no one reason I'm asking a question you're going to make a capital investment. And it would be good to know how long these programs are committed to be there. He had start program and a community action program. I mean, if they were up, if you go ahead and this money is allocated, and their lease is up next year and they go somewhere else, then, then where are we. I know that you know, in my mind that this the lease arrangements are really something I think is really critical to know in relationship to our then going on and approving funding for this. I'm not seeing any other hands I have still on the North Hamer school and I know you've got the North Hamer school on later on the hot water heater. The question just on the price tags on these for the air source heat. We've installed them in our house and then we have friends and these the, the compressors can do one room pretty well and they're not at this kind of price tag so I don't know whether you're looking at a different kind of technology. The other question is, people I know is house they did a larger culture, and there's an apparatus in the downstairs room and an upstairs room just on the two that that that does a good job. Air conditioning as well as heating so I just wondered if this is a different level of air source heat pump that costs this much money. So let me ask you that one and then my second one is on the price tag for the hot water heater in the North Hamer school. To my knowledge there are only bathrooms there there's no showers. So why why we wouldn't look at on demand apparatus is just to heat the water as it comes into the sink just not do a hot water heater at all. And when I looked at, I did a quick look at the prices those are in the 180 to $250 range, you know, so you're just attaching them on the wall right next to the sink, and it heats the water so a less expensive way of making sure that the sink in the bathroom has hot water system. I don't think there's a kitchen in there you may know more about it but I think I know there are bathrooms I've been in the building. So it's the two questions were both about the prices. So the, the air source heat pumps that would go into North Amherst are, it could be a taken system or say Mitsubishi, and what would we, what would we be looking at is putting in a commercial grade hyper heat system. So when your heats are are able to not only your, your, your heating the space, you're also getting the air conditioning. They're able to, they have a larger capacity at a cooler temperature. So once, once those temperatures start getting close to to the freezing point, the efficiency of those, those compressors the efficiency that they have to extract heat out of the air declines. So when we're at say 30 degrees outside you may only be able to achieve 60 degrees in your home, depending on how the system is built. So with the hyperheats were able to go a lot lower, I believe those ones are negative five before they start to struggle. And that that is that's going to absolutely happen in New England. So my concern is, is if we have my my concern is less for the storage areas, if that was 60 degrees. But if we're starting to consider the areas like the WIC offices or the head, the head start program 60 degrees is will not do. We need, we need to maintain minimum, minimum temperatures of another nice feature with the hyper heat systems or even the, the, the daikon systems, as you can pipe energy recovery ventilation systems directly into them. So in a lot of the air source heat pumps you have your cassette on the wall, and you have your compressor outside. There's no real ventilation that's happening. They're essentially taking your air that's within the room, and recycling it through the coil. With these better systems were able to pipe in fresh air from the outside so now we have our air exchanges, and we have this, this great technology that's heating and cooling the spaces. Unfortunately, they are those compressors, the cassettes and what you see inside the house, the homes or the buildings aren't much different. So what you may have at your home is not a lot different than you would see at North Amherst. It's the compressors outside that that are a bit different. They look very similar. But the technology that they have this is just, it's just a lot better. It really is. And then bathrooms, the hot water heater in the North Amherst school. Yeah, so I have, I have a picture of this, you know, wonderful heat pump hot water heater for the two bigger systems, but I agree with you. So the, the North Amherst school, if it was going to be a tank system, it would be a hybrid system. So it would still be an electric heat pumped tank system, but, but I agree there's, there's, there's not a constant demand and an on demand that heater would do just fine. I was even trying to figure out if I could do on demand at the Amherst police department, as well as North North fire station, and I'm just not sure I could. I might be able to, but what it would be is you would walk into it you're not going to see one box on the wall, there would be a bank of probably six of them. At that point, am I doing, you know, the building a disservice, and am I achieving the efficiencies that I want. Okay, may not be when you have six units really burning up some some kilowatts because they quite a bit. Yeah, my question was less about them because I know they have to take showers and that they do. So they have a bigger draw. They're probably they may even what they may even wash clothes, you know have laundry, whereas the North Amherst school doesn't have that. Yeah. Yeah. So there's, there's two hot water tanks in there, one of them supplies hot water to the WIC office. And the other one, the gas, the natural gas supplies to head start. And head start we have each classroom has a sink, one of the classrooms has to. And then we have a, I will call it like an office teachers lounge area, and that's like a kind of kitchenette so there is a dishwasher and a sink there so I would say we probably have about in it as well as the restroom and a slop sink. So we probably had around eight sinks and a dishwasher, could you still size on demand system for that absolutely because it doesn't have the same constant, or gallons per hour that say a shower shower would need or filling up a bathtub. It's just sinks. So, so the gallons per hour for heating is still relatively low. And that's absolutely something that I would look into. Okay, thank you. So I know I jumped ahead you didn't get to that picture yet. And here we are. So the Amherst fire North Amherst school and Kathy I just just be, I didn't want to, I don't want to cut you off Jeremiah but or has his hand up. I didn't know whether or okay or sorry. I thought maybe he put it down maybe it should have been lowered. So here's the hot water, hot water heater replacements for North fire station North Amherst school and police department departments. So both of those systems are all three buildings have natural gas tanked hot water heating systems. So over at North fire station, we have a small AO Smith heater, I believe that that boiler has 100 gallon capacity, and then it has a tank, which is a 200 gallon capacity tank. So you have this, this heater that's trying to heat not only what's in the boiler itself, but also this large storage tank before it goes up into the field or into the building. This apartment has one sort of packaged unit it's 120 gallon or 120 gallon tank. That one has had a tank replacement back in 2013, but the burner assembly is in pumps are still. They're older, I don't know if they're original that not likely. But both of those ones are absolutely shown they're where they're really they're showing some significant deterioration, especially I would say the police department, the burner, you can see it in the photos. And when I when I go to the current conditions you'll be able to see some of the issues that I have there. So the intent would be to replace both of the bigger systems with an air, it's an electric heat pump system so in this image you can see it's a lock and bar AOS myth has essentially the same system. These are able to run on air source heat pump on full electric or a hybrid. So it has those three modes to it. The particular unit has 120 gallon tank on it, and it's able to meet the demands that both of those buildings have. So the current hot water boilers push out about 150 gallons, has a the first hour of 150 gallons. And this system is able to do that as well, but with incredible efficiency, and it's, it's electrified. This, this particular unit is probably one of the nicest that I've seen. They do have some hybrid systems with the hybrid systems aren't able to meet the demands that either of the buildings need. And like I had mentioned earlier, I was looking at on demand systems with booster pumps. But to, it was the largest commercial on demand hot water heater, I, I estimated needing about six of them to take care of the police department. So not not only do you have these six, six units that are that are trying to meet the demand. It's also, you have to consider the footprint of this. I'm going from a tank that's about 28 inches around and sitting in the corner to now now needing three feet on either side of this bank. And I would be looking at probably eight feet by 12 foot of space. And where do I put that, you know, so it's, I'm trying to, trying to sort of work it from, you know, different ways. So the next slide shows us all the way to the left is the North fire stations, hot water boiler and their tank. You can see that we, we did try to create some efficiency with our fiberglass insulation, because those tanks, typically don't have much insulation if any at all. That boiler is starting to fail. And so it's, it's been a concern, we had two of the hot water boilers that are used for heating replaced over at North fire. And while there are industry professionals were looking at that that boiler saying, it's time to consider getting because it's starting to fail. I have a lot of experience with those, those particular types of boilers. And, and they do they just, they just what happens is is that has a large finned worm inside and that's where it holds all all of the water. Eventually they become so encrusted with so that that you don't have you no longer have a good heat exchange. So that combustion gas, most of that heat is just going right up your stack, you're, you have, it's very inefficient, you're not heating the water. And what tends to happen is the metals inside of there, start to actually crumble, almost like potato chips, because they can't take that that amount of heat. It essentially falls apart from the inside out there's there's no way to really get to that. You would have to completely strip that an acid bath it in order to fully clean it. The middle picture is the, the hot water heater over at the APD. If you look at the bottom of the photo if you see that sort of rusty color there. It's actually coming from the burner. So that's another area that we're seeing this the inside of the boilers, deteriorating. So oftentimes will sweep out or vacuum up some of that that metal that is that is shaling off that's it's the inside is that again it's not for messing I know I use that word but it's the small flakes peeling off the inside and it makes everything inside weaker and weaker, and it's just sort of falling out eventually you'll have catastrophic failure where water will just dump out the bottom of it. I don't want to rush you but I just want to make sure we get through the, get through the remainder of the facility projects. And the last one is the North Amherst schools heater. So again, just just kind of gives you a sense that you know that was a close up that picture was more for me so I could see all the information on it. All buildings interior and exterior improvements other requests is for $105,000. And this is for general ongoing repairs across all town buildings just ensuring that the buildings are adequately maintained. And with this money, always looking at ways to save energy reduce our carbon footprint, and also correct some of our accessibility challenges that we have across all these buildings. In this photo you can see that we have some deterioration of the curbing, which is impacting our handrails. So the money would go to fixing up all these will say smaller projects this wouldn't go to one large project but a lot of these smaller issues. So we have a photo of some more masonry that's deteriorating on the right hand side. This is just shown to see you can see the glazing around the bottom of that column is separated, and that's where water is able to creep in and start causing damage to to the concrete, the infrastructure, and then it just, it gets inside the building, causing even more issues. Over on the left we have the exterior lighting at Bangs. These are older T8s has four lamps in them. I would love to get rid of all of those and put some LED light fixtures out there. I think that there's a dozen of those. I'm sure that I can reduce the wattage by probably two thirds on the exterior banks while giving more light. The center image is to illustrate the need for water fill stations. We have a lot of these kind of traditional style water bubblers across the town buildings. There's just, you know, every day there's more demand for filling up our our bottles that we bring with us to work so either replacing these units or putting in a kit that that transforms them from this traditional style to a water fill station. And on the right hand side, I just included an image where the door, these are heavy wooden doors in our buildings and some of them are showing this cracking. So this is trying to repair them if not we're replacing and, and, you know, obviously the replacement is not somewhere we want to be but but all of these things is are some smaller or bigger issues that we come across that we need to fix. If you want, Sean, I'll just kind of burn through them and just leave it up for a question. North fire station sprinkler system and request is for $36,000. So over at North fire station we have a fire suppression system, but currently that fire suppression system is only in the first floor of the building in the apparatus bay. So the money is to go to expand that fire suppression system up into the second floor. The second floor of the building is where our student force and our career force have their sleeping quarters. This is a, it's a critical that we we get our fire suppression system up there. We have individuals sleeping there there this is their second home this is their home away from home when they're here, helping our community and keeping it safe so I think it's important that we keep them safe. And have that sprinkler system installed up there once that sprinklers on the second floor that entire building will be fully sprinkled. And I think that's where we need to be. We're not only in this building but in a lot of our buildings. And to that this is we're making a big investment in the central fire station so this fire station is likely going to be with us for a while. Okay, North fire station, another one for the North fire station is is the exterior siding. So in this image you can see that this wooden facade so we have this building that's mostly concrete or block but we also have this wooden facade on the building. And that that is original to the 1974 it's marine grade plywood. Over the years it's been maintained it's been primed it's been painted, but we're just at the point where there's, there's the wood is decayed. And that's really due to the weather and the UV exposure that it gets this side of the building is the south side facing building. It's highly visible, and it also just receives a lot of sun. So the, the request would be to cover either remove and replace or just cover up this would with a much more durable low low maintenance siding option. I'd like to see some type of commercial metal siding on there, but there's also fiber cement and vinyl siding. And obviously something like this would go through design review board and in, but I'm trying to get some, some, some things or some ideas to be able to present to that committee. It's, it's just needed. I think with North fire station. I don't want to say it's an eyesore, but we can certainly make it look a lot better than that. So the request is to, to get that sided the socket underneath is also wouldn't but it's in much better condition. Okay, and I have a couple more examples you can see some of the damage. So everywhere there's wood where we have the same, same issue. Next is a portable assistive listening systems and their request is for $93,142 and the purpose of this request is to purchase two portable assisted list listening systems. So the request is to provide assisted live listening systems to all town meeting rooms, as it is recommended in our recently updated ADA 504 self evaluation and transition plan. And it's also been expressed. It's been an express need identified by residents who are in our elderly population persons with disabilities. So working with the senior center directors or past senior senior center directors, and a lot of the individuals who utilize the senior center. There's, there's been a lot of concern and suggestions that that it would help out quite a bit so these two systems, one being much larger, would also be able to support the town council. If they were to meet at banks and I know in some at some point in the town council's histories that we did have to meet over in the large activity of town of the bank center, and this would allow us to be able to do that. And then there's a smaller one so both of these systems are portable. It doesn't put a system in every single room per se it's not a permanent system, but it's two portable systems that that could be used in any meeting space and in the town. It's also the same system that we have in the town room. So if we were ever in need, and we just needed some more microphones, or some more receivers. We could always bring them from those systems over to the town room and expand our system so it allows us that flexibility to grow our system or shrink it. These systems also include a speaker. So you have their, their completely self contained. So it has all the amplification has all the receivers has the speaker systems has all the microphones and has all these receivers that they're the wearables will say. And I'll just add that this one. There was a recommendation from the disability access advisory committee. I don't know if everybody saw that but for this, there was a recommendation from them for that project. And we have the Amherst police department exterior maintenance and the request is for $100,000. And this is similar to the other, the all buildings and it is to for general and ongoing exterior repairs needed for the Amherst police department and sure the facilities adequately maintained. A lot of the same stuff that was mentioned in all buildings is there are particulars here so in this image of the APD is the back door and the associated windows. As you can see the gas getting for that window is has failed, and we have moisture. That's in between the panes of glass so now we've reduced our our value we reduced our efficiency. And that is something that that would need to be replaced and that's just one of one example. Over on the left hand side, you can see a small concrete landing, and then the walkway beyond. Every every exit that emergency exit out of a building should have a hard surface. So the code says that you must exit out of a building onto a hard surface. Well, we do have a landing, but it doesn't meet a public right of way. So part of that money would be to ensure that we have a sidewalk ensure that we have this hard surface that meets that public right away so expanding that sidewalk. Over to that door. There's another one at the front of the building. That one's going to be a little bit more tricky just for aesthetics. But again looking at these these are these are life safety measures that should be put in place. And that's to expand that sidewalk. The middle image is is a, and it's a picture of the underside of the the fashion the soffit of the police department. You can't really see it in this image but there's a lot of areas around the perimeter of the building that we have some really we have some breaches in that so there could be weather. We could we see sunlight. And there has been times where we've had unwelcome guests come in through there at that corner at that point is probably the thinnest point of the building the thinnest part of that building is where that roof structure and that softness me. So, working with the town and treating grounds they've been able to trim back some of the branches. So that helps keep those unwanted guests out. But what really doing a comprehensive look at the perimeter and making those necessary repairs. On the right hand side there's a catch basin a drain right outside or right in front of the Sally port. It's kind of hard to tell, but that area that's patched in and you can see where the soil has has sort of filled up that that has that catch basin has significantly dropped. And that needs to be raised and rework so there is work that's needed on our driveway in parking area at a PD so it's just just illustrating some of the needs around the building. And that is it I stopped sharing I hope that's okay. So there's two other projects. One is Stephanie's energy sustainability improvements but the other bucket that's in that we added was some of the repointing projects that you. We took them off individually and put them up can you just talk about the repointing a little bit. So the buildings. We have a lot of older buildings and some of our even the newer buildings like a PD, we have 1996 and then we have the town hall that's what 1890s. So all these buildings you have this wonderful brick on the outside of the building. We don't do over time that masonry in between the bricks will start to deteriorate. And that's either through weather or sometimes it's growth so sometimes we get vegetation that will get in there and start pushing out that repointed. The repointing is something that we have to do with all any brick building any masonry building across town, and that's really to help ensure that you don't have water penetrating into the building. There's a lot of water penetration and there's obviously huge issues that it does cause so there's, there's a scale that happens inside buildings, the sheet rock, the, the wooden structure starts to starts to break down. So it's really, it's very important that we take care of that envelope, because really that envelope of the building takes it will will protect everything inside so good, good roof, good solid walls and a good foundation and everything else and inside is in good shape so that money will help us to repoint all of our brick building so it's, it will be an ask. Absolutely it has to be, but that money will help take care of the air areas that that is a critical need and start cleaning those up so we can eliminate some of our water penetration issues. And then I guess the last one is Stephanie do you want to speak to the energy sustainability improvement project. Sure. So, the $200,000 that were that was being requested for sustainability. Really, I think both Jeremiah and Scott Livingstone were great introductions to the need for things like technology that can be retrofitted on to either existing vehicles existing buildings. Or to sort of help with efficiency measures. One of the things we need with buildings are as Jeremiah pointed out earlier, our engineering studies. So for instance, if you want to go for green communities grant funding, we're going to need an engineering study to actually lay out what what the needs are the efficiency needs are, or improvements would be for that building. If we look at this year as an example the $100,000 that we received for funding this year $25,000 of that is going towards idling anti idling technology for the new fire pump truck. So we're looking to to supply that vehicle with this efficiency that otherwise we wouldn't have the funding for. And then the $75,000 that we have is actually going towards the solar assessment that's being done that will be used to help guide development of the solar bylaw for the town. So, these things come up quite frequently. There's sometimes the inability to have these studies done can be barriers towards getting funding. So even though it feels like it's yet another study. It's actually the study that will help us get the funding to do the project. So, I don't want to, I think you've probably gone later that you anticipated so I'll stop right there. If you have questions I'm happy to answer. I'll quickly add to what Stephanie said which is, there's a lot of energy money coming out later this year. Some of the law, the funding programs have been passed by the president have a lot of money for towns for local governments and for schools. There's a lot of activity on our side to try to have plans ready so that we have sort of developed projects that we can apply for our legislators have told us the same thing there. Markey had had a presentation a week ago or two weeks ago kind of saying the same thing to people just get ready, especially like on electric school buses and charging infrastructure and things like that. So we're going to get this funding and try to make sure we have projects that are ready to go that we could apply for some of these larger grants. So any questions real recognizing that it's a late hour. It's quick, I promise. I watched everyone's face go, oh no. Okay, so my question, Jeremiah is looking at the, looking at the document that talks about status of approved projects in the past, the police department still has a little over $25,000 left for maintenance, according to that document. Is that factored into the estimate that you gave for exterior maintenance or is that how do those play together. That that money. That is older, older money I believe that's from 18, it might be. Yeah, it's 18. So, what I'm, I have been using that money for is in that same year, it was approved there was approved for interior maintenance. So with this request for exterior maintenance, I've been using some of that money that 25,000 for interior maintenance work. Because we, we also have a number of plumbing issues that I'm trying to correct right now. Particularly in the men's and women's locker rooms between the fixtures but also the countertops. A lot of those areas we're seeing, we're seeing the age so we're seeing that you know 1996, the counters are swollen. So it's, there's, I'm using that as a way to correct some of these interior issues, as well as taking care of some of the exterior so the answer you, yes it is factored in, but at the same time, I would say that most of that money would go to interior issues. I have one of Stephanie, I'm about sustainability fund that we, that was first last year. One of the resident requests was from two high school students to look at solar canopies over the high school parking lot parking lots but look more broadly. And we sort of folded it into the larger sustainability funds saying it could be used for that. Are there plans to as, and that it was a similar idea of be ready in case money becomes available, but that we would have to say where could these go how many of these could go. Is that still in the work. Yeah, that's, there's actually a, we received Medigrant funding through the state, and that was actually identified as part of that project. There is additional, there are additional funds I believe that are being used on top of the, the Medigrant funds strong conspiracy to that. But, but that is being addressed. So we, we partnered with the region who got a earmark from the state, I think it was $15,000 earmark from the state to specifically study study solar canopies at the high school and middle school. And we partnered we added that to what we were looking for which is basically everywhere else or many other places that are municipal buildings both canopies and storage. We put that all together in one scope, and we, we had our kickoff meeting with the schools and the consultant the other day. And we are looking at ways to incorporate the students who were the requesters for that project so we're thinking about ways to engage them in the meetings with with the vendor who's going to be doing this analysis. And at the end where we should have a report by the end of June I think Stephanie right that will give us the information that we're seeking about what it would cost to do it at these buildings what it would look like, you know how ready are they for it. You know, where do they recommend we start and where does it make the most sense that kind of thing. That's great. Thank you. You know that for those of you who weren't here last year we had passionate students who are hoping this would happen before they graduated so it's a, you know, and they saw it as a beginning they understood it wouldn't result in canopies but it would be seed money that could do it long term that's that's terrific to hear. So I'm any other questions or comments and I'm looking at public and I think we have one person in the public Dave Zomac. So I'm not sure if there are public comments but I don't want to open up for public till I make sure there aren't any closing comments or questions from the committee. I'm not seeing any and so are there any comments from the public. If so raise your hand, not seeing any. So I think we are then done with a pretty ambitious agenda. One request I would have Jeremy is that you send your chart pack to Sean, because we can then post it as part of this meeting packet and then the minutes will show that we viewed a series of pictures but Jennifer doesn't have to capture all the words because you've given us the words in the minutes. So we can post it that that was very helpful I thought to have. And your passion is clearly right up there with keeping us in good shape. Thank you. So I think I can say we're adjourned and then next week remind us 630 again next week. So we are meeting against is again it's this with the changed hour for next week. So thank you, Mandy has her hand up. CRC has decided to cancel its meeting next week, because there aren't agenda items so if the committee would, if this committee would prefer to meet at the previously scheduled five to seven I do not have a conflict anymore. So it looks like several thumbs up so we're shifting back to five o'clock for next week that would be great. I think that is okay if I just confirmed with the department heads that were coming. Okay, I originally give it on the 630 time but I'm sure they'll be fine moving it earlier but just let me double check. So you get back to us. Thank you very much. So, I think what did herbs say about whether that creates a problem for him. I know that a lot of people may have fixed schedules but I am on several, several committees and boards and changing back and forth like this is wreaking havoc with my schedule. If we're going to do it at five o'clock that's fine but we're going to switch back if it's going to 630 that's fine, but switching back that our believe it or not makes a big difference to me. Okay. So I think we're leaving it that Sean will see if we can switch and with these the only two that were switched to the later hour. There was one more on March 17, and then the rest of them would all be at five o'clock five to seven. But Kathy maybe you and I can connect offline. We'll just connect because we're trying not to back and forth but we appreciate you raising that. So I think then we are adjourned and Sean will get back to us as quickly as possible so we can figure out what our calendar for next week looks like. Thank you everyone, and have a good night. We're adjourned.