 All right guys, thanks for joining us here for this session. So over the next 40 minutes or so, we're going to kind of, first we'll kick it off with a light intro by each of our panelists up here and then kind of got some seated questions around community and general meetups and so forth and some of the tips that we can get from the panelists that we have and then hopefully for the latter part of the session or even throughout the session make sure that we've got some interactivity here with some questions going on. So I'm just going to read off, you know, kind of a name and title here and then give each one of these guys 30 seconds or so to kind of give them their little song and dance of, you know, what it is they do in life and what's relevant to this particular session. So we'll start off with Kyle Messery, he's a technical leader with Cisco Systems in the Office of the Cloud CTO. And then next to him is Mark Velker, who is technical leader also from Cisco in the Systems Development Unit. Next to Mark we got Kamish Pimaraju, who is the senior product manager from Dell for Cloud Solutions and then we got Jeff Prevost, who is the executive coordinator for the Institute of Cloud Technology at University of Texas, San Antonio, GoUT. And then what we are fortunate to have but is not listed in the panelists is we actually had the opportunity to have Sean Roberts from Yahoo join us, who's also on the OpenStack board, which is cool to have us have him up on stage with us. So we'll start here with Kyle to give kind of a little song and dance of his and then we'll just kind of pass the mic around and then we'll start questions. Thanks for the introduction, Shannon. So like Shannon said, my name is Kyle Messery and I work in the Office of the Cloud CTO on OpenStack and other open source related technologies as well. I'm also the founder of the Minnesota OpenStack Meetup. Our group is about six months old now, a little bit over that and we have at last count somewhere around 130 members. So we're not quite in Sean's category yet, but we're getting close. So anyways, yeah. My name is Mark Velker. I work in the Systems Development Unit at Cisco. I do a lot of work in reference architectures and complete end-end systems. So hardware, software, life cycle, kind of the whole nine yards. I also do some work in big data and massively scalable data center architecture. I've been working on OpenStack for probably two or three years now. And I'm also the co-founder of the Triangle Area OpenStack user group in Research Triangle Park, North Carolina, who have had one meeting so far and we're working on scheduling number two now. I think we have about 80 or so folks on the meetup list so far. Thank you. Hello. My name is Kamish Pamaraju. I am the Dell OpenStack product manager. My responsibility is to bring OpenStack solutions to market, which includes hardware, software, the whole nine yards and ecosystem and partnerships. I am the co-founder and organizer of the Boston OpenStack Summit. I do want to take a minute. For those of you who have not heard about it, there were a couple of explosions this morning at the marathon finish line at the Boston Marathon. Two people were killed and 22 people were injured. So our thoughts and prayers are with those and their families. I just want to let you know that. So our group in the Boston area has really grown. We started the group back in December 2011, and I've been running the group since February of last year. We started about 40 people and today we are 415. I believe the third largest OpenStack meetup group in the country. Obviously the Bay Area is the largest. Austin is the second one. We are the third. I have a lot of interesting stories to relate to you guys because we've had more than 20 meetups in the last 18 months or so. Hi, my name is Jeff Prevost. I am a PhD candidate at UTSA. About eight months ago I was asked to start up an initiative on the campus to promote open cloud technologies for not only the researchers, the faculty, and anyone else in the community who would like to learn about OpenStack and any open technology such as open compute as well. We are right now about 25 professors and each of the professors have given anywhere between two to four PhD and or master students for the group. We are focused on trying to teach OpenStack to the research area, make sure that projects that are able to be ported over from traditional HBC architecture can be ported into the cloud in open technologies. And we are committed to researching not only the platform using the open compute standards but also figuring out ways to make OpenStack better itself and then contributing that back to the community. That's awesome. I would like to hear that. Sean Roberts on the board. I work for Yahoo. My title is infrastructure strategy. So I basically bring new infrastructure technology into Yahoo and that's why I am here and why I have gotten involved with OpenStack. Our meetup has been around for a while basically because it was born out of the beginnings of OpenStack so it's not really completely due to me but I have helped in my own way. Some people have come and gone and so I am kind of the last man standing of the original crew. So we have meetups right now. It's supposed to happen every week. The San Francisco meetup is going to kick back in here pretty soon again. So we will start having meetups every single week. We are about 2,500 people right now. One of our biggest problems is actually getting people excited, the right people to show up to meetups. I don't want to jump ahead. So we don't obviously get 2,500 people to our meetups every week but really excited to see the renewed interest and excitement around creating the ground swell behind the user grips. So happy to be here. Thanks. So my name is Shannon McFarland. I also work for Cisco. I am in the office that is really kind of focused on kind of two to five year new technology areas. We call it research and advanced development. And so myself and Scott Lowe, now a VMware employee, former EMC employee, we founded the Denver OpenStack meetups as well as the infrastructure as code meetups. So I am happy to be kind of coordinating the little session that we have here together. So we are going to kind of break the logistics as, you know, kind of one of the first things that we talk about because when we look at user groups, whether they are meetups or whether they are vertical segmentation, whether it be higher ed or government related, people always want to know the logistical challenges of setting up their own groups. So that is kind of where some of our questions are going to start and you guys can answer, you know, as you want to. So one of our questions that we have here is what are the top challenges that you face setting up your user group? So jump in. I mean, I could jump in. I think one of the biggest challenges that people see initially is where are you going to host the meetup group at least. That is kind of what we see and one of the nicest way you can solve that problem is by working with a corporation in your area that is involved with OpenStack either as a user or actually contributing, it has developers because they may be able to offer up a conference room initially, a smaller conference room or something like that. But I think logistically just trying to find a place and pick a time is what most people stumble over. I found that once you do that, once you actually get that time on there and have a place, then a lot of the other stuff kind of falls out. Yeah. I think the other thing that a lot of people will find a little scary at the start is coming up with content for that first meetup. Once you get people excited and you have a lot of people in the room, it's a little easier to solicit content going forward, especially once you get to know who the audience is and who's coming to your meetup and what kinds of things they'll be interested in. But kind of that first initial meetup, you're kind of shooting in the dark trying to figure out what's going to get people into that room. Our challenge in the Boston area, well, the good news is we have lots of universities in the Boston area. We have MIT. We have a hard word. A lot of the main, the large enterprises like Microsoft, IBM, they have their technology centers there. So we didn't have a hard time finding a location. Our problem was more distribution, right? So we had the downtown area and then people that were out in the suburbs and people didn't want to come all the way downtown for the meetups for those that were living out in the suburbs and vice versa. So we ended up having two locations. There was a downtown area meetup that happens every other month. And then we moved out to the suburbs with Newton as our hub today and we'll probably look at the locations there. So that's how we kind of solved our issue, which was big location, big area. And we're also exploring other virtual meetup type activities as well. Yeah, we didn't have that problem. So we're at a university campus where our user base is pretty well sequestered right there on the campus. So our challenge really was what do you do to entice students to not do what they would normally do and go attend a meeting like this to teach them or to showcase OpenStack as an example. And what we found really works well in our venue is training. So what we do on any time that we would like to get a group together is we offer some type of a session. We've been fortunate San Antonio with Rackspace as one of the entities that cohabitate San Antonio with us. We've been able to have Rackspace actually have folks come down and do some really dedicated hands-on training. So we set up labs of, you know, 80 plus computers and our sessions have overflowed. I mean, we literally have had more people that can attend that want to attend the sessions than we had logistical space for. So easy for us to solve that particular problem, fortunately. And we've really found training is the way for us to go. Yeah, I agree that that's basically what people are showing up for. They're showing up to learn something. So really what the user groups are very small conferences. So when they have a life cycle and so once you hit a cadence, you find a few companies in the area that are interested in open stack, they're willing to help out, then getting people to show up is all about giving them something for their time. So we've worked very hard at, and it's hard because this isn't my, you know, I'm not a marketing person. This is, you know, kind of more of a marketing thing to set these things up and organize it. So it's difficult to be regimented and organize this stuff and do it every couple of weeks. So, but the easiest thing has been when we get a good speaker and we get a good topic and people know they're going to show up and either learn something or we're actually going to go through and work on a problem. No problem. Get the houses full. When we're a little wishy-washy and I wait too late to get a speaker, I wait to set a topic, half house. So it's pretty repeatable that way. So, you know, I think you alluded to it earlier, Sean, which is around, you know, this kind of diversity as it relates to the population of people that attend and always making sure that you've got relevant content for that type of audience. So that's one of our next question is, you know, what's the kind of breakdown of the makeup of your group? Is it really heavy dev? Is it half dev? Is it, you know, people there trying to figure out the business case for OpenStack? You know, how do you kind of see that breakdown happening? Yeah. Very good. We tend to see all of the above in our meet-ups. So we did an informal poll in one of the previous meet-ups. So we have said how many of you are developer types and about 20 percent hands went up. And then when we dug in and tried to find out what kind of developers there were, there were mostly people that wanted to build stuff on top of OpenStack. So these are solution developers, or solution architects, if you will. We're fortunate in the Boston area because we have Red Hat. We have PTLs that are actually contributing to Quantum and Keystone. And we have Microsoft, the guy who actually builds the Hyper-V stuff isn't the Boston area. So a lot of our discussions have been having these guys come over and talk about what they're doing. And it turns out most of the folks that are coming there will then they come back and say, oh, I don't know a whole lot about OpenStack itself. Overall, right? Can you help us with that? So one-on-one stuff. Or a solution architect says, how do I build a platform on top of this? So we have those challenges. Trying to figure out, now only now we're starting to sort of split up the meet-ups into a one-on-one track. We have a very good resource in your area if you want to look up our system integrators. So we have a system integrator in the Boston area called Cloud Technology Partners. And they are now starting to take the bull by the horns and saying, we'll take care of the training part of it. So we'll do Cloud 101, OpenStack 101 sessions. We'll do hands-on and things of that nature. So it is a challenge. How do you cater to the different needs of the audience? And so far we've been bumbling along, so to speak, right? So the topics are interesting. We have PTLs come up. Fairly deep-dive technical topics. What I would love to do going forward is actual hackathons. They're just coming together in the room and actually building something for a particular project. It hasn't happened yet in the Boston area. Well, I think, Sean, you guys are really good at breaking those tracks down. And we can go ahead and nail another question that we've got that's very directly related to this. And that is, once you kind of understand you've got this mix of this population of different people, also answering that question, at what point is it based upon population or just interest that you actually break them into tracks, where you've got an intro track every month and a developer hackathon every month at what point? So maybe you can hit both of those. Yeah, sure. So initially we had a single meetup. Ewan Mellor was the guy that really took over this from Josh and Envish and some of the other guys that started the hackathons. And it's really what all the user groups start off with was a hackathon to write the first versions of OpenStack. So Ewan was running this out of Cisco offices in Sunnyvale. And he had the same problem where people were showing up and he was giving the same talk over and over again. And he was losing and basically lost most of the devs. All the devs just stopped coming because it kept giving the same talk over and over again. And frankly, Ewan got sick and tired of giving the same talk over and over again. So when I got involved in 2011, they were already starting to break it out some. And the timing was right around where Cloud Stack stepped back. So Ewan stepped back. And I had this problem of we have a lot of people that are really interested in how do we bring the devs back in. So what we started doing was to have two rooms next to each other, one hackathon which is kind of like intermediate in one beginners. And I would bring in speakers that would talk basically architecture. That got old pretty fast because nobody likes to do that more than once. I think I was able to get Ewan to come back maybe three times and I lost things I could bribe him with. So rather than just giving a video of Ewan or somebody else giving a talk, I went out and talked to one of the integrators. So I got Boris Rensky from Rantus to start showing up because there's a good reason why he'd want to do that. Maybe push a little business and do me a favor. So now we have hackathons and the beginner meetups right next to each other at the same time. We have a cadence, but we have this also the problem of we have structure around the, it's easy to have structure on the beginning meetups, but it's difficult to have structure around the hackathons. So you have some guys that are old developers, old time developers that have been doing this for a while that want to show up and actually maybe collaborate, and then you have new devs. So we've been playing around with how to create that syllabus, as it were. I think Luke has some good ideas to talk right before this, how we could put some structure on it. And I'd really love to make it very similar to what universities could use to actually create training programs and then tie it into certification programs as well. So I may be asking for a little much to have it all perfectly aligned, but something along those lines. So what we've also tried to do is to bring in PTLs to have advanced meetups. And to, Dan Winland has been kind enough to do that quite often in quantum in our area. There's a lot of SDN startups so that we get a packed house every single time Dan shows up. He's a good speaker as well, that helps. So, but we struggle around, my desire is to have the advanced meetups be more like training programs. So we've struggled around, I can get speakers, but getting people, getting the word out in the right time and getting the right kind of crowd rather than getting some beginners to filter in is a challenge. Yeah, and just to kind of add on to that point, if you're just starting a meetup, it's even more tricky, I think. Because you don't necessarily have, if I break it into tracks, am I going to have anybody show up for this track at all? So you don't want to line people up like that. In the RTP group, what we actually did to start was actually we just had three talks on the same night. And one was kind of your basic OpenSack 101 for beginners and then we had more of a technical deep dive and then we actually had a demo of how to use DevStack. So we kind of tried to address all those audiences at first until we could kind of learn a little bit more about our audience. And then going forward, we can kind of try to address those different audiences a little bit better. And so along those lines, another thing that's actually interesting to do is you'll find that there's other meetup groups not necessarily related to OpenSack, but possibly related to technologies that either build on top of or are related to OpenSack. So for instance, in the Minneapolis area, we hooked up with the local DevOps group last month and we had kind of a combined four-hour meetup where we were hosted at Lifetouch, a local company there, and they gave us a tour of their agile development facility that they had just opened. They kind of used it a little bit as a recruiting thing to some extent. But then we had multiple talks on the OpenSack front and DevOps and different things. So kind of combining with other groups in the area that can build on top of or around OpenSack is another good way to kind of cross-pollinate the groups and you can pull in some new members. Your members will get more interested in the other groups as well, so that's a nice thing to do too. So what about remote attendance? I know in ours, we try to Webex each one of ours. I know you guys do a good job in the Valley as well, and we certainly from Cisco's perspective have access to Webex, so it's a pretty easy thing to fix. But I think it's more challenging for some of us that are not in the Valley or a major hub of technology, even though Denver's got a lot of startup and a lot of activity around development in general. It's still difficult for us when a good percentage of our population from Denver travels, and it's kind of hard to nail down, you know, meetup dates. So do you guys make extensive use of both live and the use of, you know, posting your recordings on meetup groups and so forth? So we had that challenge, right? Many of the folks that couldn't come to the meetup in person requested for a online, you know, like a Webex type session. So one of the challenges we had was one venue didn't have good Wi-Fi, you know, it was very low bandwidth and we couldn't really stream anything. So that was one issue. The second issue, once we started that going, what we realized was once people knew that there was an online session, they wouldn't come up. They wouldn't actually come to the session in person. And the whole purpose of the meetup was to have people meet face to face and, you know, have that interaction. So it's kind of a chicken and egg situation. So what we ended up doing was we didn't actually publish the URL to the actual session until the very end. So if people can't make it, they can still come, but they wouldn't know what it is. So they will try to come to the session in person. And if they can't, there's always that last minute URL that will show up on the meetup site. So that's how we went around that. But the challenge of having a good Wi-Fi connection is when you are picking up a venue, make sure you have all the audio, you know, you have telephone, you have, you know, the usual stuff, internet and et cetera. So that's important. And I'd love to see a stream video one day if you have the right kind of internet facilities. That's actually a good point because that's what we did at our last one was we added streaming video. And we found that that actually helped with remote attendees. We actually have a lot of people that are remote, not even in Minnesota, that dial into ours a lot of the time. So we actually did not only the slides and the WebEx, but we also had a video camera pointed so you could actually see the speaker. I mean, most people have multiple monitor setups at home. So it kind of helps engagement remotely as well. So that works pretty well. And what technology did you guys use? Of course we use WebEx, right? So, yeah. So, you know, we're kind of in the context of meetups a little bit, but we also know, you know, I've talked to my friends in the public sector and federal space, which are, you know, maybe less pushing something for a wide open public forum for meetups, but more unique to that particular industry. And so, you know, from Jeff, your perspective specifically, kind of in the outreach effort inside of the university space, how do you see maybe what you would do in a meetup group being different for, you know, maybe a university focus? One of the things that we decided early on is that we were gonna see this process by going to faculty. And we literally went door to door at first. We drove interest in a few key faculty that had influence in other areas, invited them into the sessions. They then invited their colleagues. That spurred more interest. And at some point, the faculty made it mandatory for the students that were under their control to go as well. So, once you get that seed started and you have educated, our biggest problem was, you know, this technology is so new, especially to academia. And academia tends to be very myopic. They've done their own thing, especially a professor that graduated 10, 15 years ago. You know, they're not on the latest, even if they're in computer science sometimes. So, what we wanted to do is, we wanted to educate the faculty first and teach them about what is this new technology? What can it do to enable them? From both the infrastructure, the platform, as well as the software side, being able to utilize this architecture to enable their research to take on heights that you can't do in traditional HPC or in traditional data centers. And to be honest, we have had just such an incredible resonance with the faculty that it's almost overwhelming to us because they are coming to us now with their problems and they're saying, how can we get training or help or whatever to be able to enable this to the next level? They recognize the difficulty of getting access to the traditional, at the UT system, there's a Texas Academic Computing Center, which is a very high-end supercomputer that's made available to the faculty and researchers in the UT system. The problem with it is that it's almost like an astronomer trying to get access to Hubble in that you put a request in and eventually at some point your request is answered and you get a small amount of time. So we're changing the model and the professors, the user community that we've created is all about enablement of cloud technology. And what we decided to do early on to get back to the original question is start at the faculty. We started at the faculty, we got their buy-in and everything else is just really blossom from there. Now, do you see that you're expanding, are other universities interested in what you're doing and trying to replicate it and how do you share that? I was so happy, that's a perfect segue. What we're building is a template. That's what we see our role is, is we're vetting issues, we're building a template, we're learning how these different technologies can be enabled on cloud. But that's not really our goal. Our goal is to promote this as an open campus to the entire university systems of North America. As a matter of fact, anyone, all the campuses that are affiliated with the internet too are, which is a, it's a dedicated connection that exists between the universities, mainly North America. All of those universities will be able to utilize the private public infrastructure template that we're creating on enabling open cloud technologies. And so that's absolutely part of our mission statement. And Boston is obviously a university town and when I was talking with him, so we said MIT is doing some very interesting work around open standard clouds and they're using AWS a lot these days. So one of the things I wanna sort of collaborate with him is how do we get the same template applied to the Boston area, MIT, Harvard, we have Boston University and a number of other universities. I wanna put on my Dell hat here for a second. Over the last couple of years, our OpenStack solution is finding a lot of traction at the university space, interestingly. That's not, that was not our target market. We were going after service providers and hosting providers. But it turned out that most universities were looking at OpenStack and we've actually had a number of production deployments at universities. It turns out, I don't know your experience, my experience, our experience has been that many universities are Linux savvy. They, the researchers and folks that they have a lot of Linux workloads. So they're kind of familiar with the open source world and of course they are cash trapped, some of them are. And that's why it seems like that's the reason why they're moving towards OpenStack. So I just wanted to throw in my two cents there. Okay, so just for a second, I mean, take a pause. Any questions on anything that we've had here you want any clarification on? Nope, go ahead. And if we can grab the mic here or actually I'll give you the mic. I was just wondering if you guys have considered starting to actually collect any metrics around who are, who is attending your meetups and just trying to find out what the trends are, if there are any, that's the question. Yeah, so we actually started trying to do that fairly early on. Like I said, the RTP meetup groups only had one meeting so far, but we actually did, you know, kind of, the easy thing to do is to go around in the room, you know, when it's only six or so people, it's still possible to go around the room and just see, oh, who do you work for, what's your interest, why are you here? You know, take the 10 minutes of the meeting to do that. We also did try to send out surveys afterwards to both people who attended and people who joined the meetup group that weren't able to attend that meeting, just try to get a scope of what their interest was. Responses to that were about like any survey, they're not very good. So we found, I think we got maybe 10, 15% return, so we found that not to be a really useful tool. What actually was a little bit more useful for us was that when we set up the meetup group initially on meetup.com, the tool that we were using, they gave you an opportunity there to ask introductory questions of people that signed up, and so we'd actually had a question in there asking about what people's interest was. So that helped out a little bit, and that actually helped us make some decisions about what our initial talks would be. We actually didn't, but we found that when people were signing up for that meetup group, the responses there were actually, most people actually did fill it out, as opposed to the survey afterward where nobody did. One of the things that we wanted to know is from the university setting, who was the attendees, especially the students. We could identify the faculty, and we knew who the faculty were, and the big, I guess, hypothesis we all had was that we were gonna have an overwhelming amount of computer science students show up, and at our university, there's about an equal number of computer science and engineering. It turns out that overwhelmingly, the engineering community is the community that has adopted OpenStack, and it seems as if what we found, they see it as an enablement. They see it as a tool that they can use to enable their research to take it to the next level, where the computer science students saw it as almost another venue for a class assignment. It was not necessarily something that they were gonna be able to leverage. They would end up having to study later on, so why would they want to go and attend a separate session? So anyways, it was an interesting dichotomy that we ended up seeing at the university. That's interesting. So one of the things that, not that meetup is the only solution, but it's the solution that most of us have fallen on as being the easiest to use. So one of the things that meetup provides is a pretty good API. There's a couple of areas I'd like to see it extended. So we haven't had a conversation with them yet, but some of the things that we're talking about, that's one of the things that I'd like to see that we not only make some use of their API with maybe some tooling on the foundation side, but also extend the API to start to vet out the people that don't actually show up to the meetups and to have a better quality of, yeah. And so it feeds back into what the user community is doing. So they're trying to gather metrics, and your question is around that. So that's definitely the intention is to feed metrics back down into the user group so we can focus them perhaps in some cases, that may be by area or by some other attribute, but also feed some data back up into it as well, so. Yes, that works for a while. I have a two-fold question. The first one was around, I guess, metrics a little bit. I'm interested in finding out the affiliation or how you really branch out to bringing women into more of the meetups. I have noticed that some of the meetups I've gone to, there's a very low percentage of women attending, and what have you done to try to reach out and branch out and bring more of the women developers or women, whatever, solution architects to attend. And once that one gets answers, the other one actually is more what methods, when you first start your meetup, other than meetup itself, to push out your message that you're opening one up, you're starting one up, and how do you go around messaging besides social media, or is that tools that you use to message out meetups on a regular basis? So, I mean, to answer your second question, I mean, social media clearly is the main, I think that's the main way that you can do things, whether you're using Twitter, or Google+, Facebook, LinkedIn, whatever, but the other thing is if you can also message at the companies in your area that you know people that are gonna come to your meetup as well, and they can spread the word internally, it helps if you rotate the meetup around a little bit to some other companies, because you'll find that'll draw in new people from that company who just so happen to be at work that day, and it's real easy for them just to stay and show up at the meetup, and then you'll end up with some of those people who'll end up becoming members as well, so I think that really the social media is the main way to message around that. Yeah, and kinda to blend those questions a little bit, if there are particular groups that you wanna reach out to in general, whether it's women or developers, or whatever group it is, one of the things that we found helpful early on was to just look at who is it that we're trying to target, and then cross-pollinate with those groups directly, so we would go out to say the Linux user groups in our area and tell them, hey, look, we're starting a meetup group, here's the time and place. So in Cisco internally, we have some women's groups that we try to socialize with occasionally. There are other groups, interest groups within Cisco as well, so from an internal perspective, we can do that. But just in general in the community, any other groups that you think are gonna be interested in you or that you wanna attract those people, it really helps to go out directly to the people that are organizing those groups and try to cross-pollinate with them a bit. I think Kyle, you said earlier, you did that with some of the DevOps groups as well. Yeah, it was pretty much the same approach we took when we started off in the Boston area. So we were part of the Cloudy Mondays, we have a Cloudy Mondays meetup group, there's a DevOps group, there's a Python group, there's an emerging technology group, so we would reach out to those folks and say, hey, we're starting up this new OpenStack thing, it's open source, and when we did our first meetup, we had about 10 or 15 people show up and there were people from all these other groups, you know, curious about what OpenStack was and what it was all about, and that's how it got started. And even today we collaborate with Cloudy Mondays, for example, we have, I think every quarter, we have a joint meetup with them, we're starting to get very involved with the Chef meetup group in the Boston area, they do hackathons and the Obscored guys come up there, they do demos and stuff, at the end of the day we have an OpenStack session, so that's how we get those people involved as well. So the cross-pollination thing is very important because there are groups that are already interested in this kind of stuff, so you sort of look at groups that have complementary interests, like the Python group or the DevOps group or the Emerging Technologies group or the Open Source group, and then you reach out to them and get them into your thing. And to your first question, we hardly get any women in our meetup, so it's something that we would like to learn more about and see if there are women's group there and see if we can attract them. Yes, I am an HR head from a company in Mexico, and I am trying to learn a lot. My challenge are to hire talent and to develop the ones I have. Do you have a group we can join or my employees can join and learn more about it? Have you thought about international thinking about Mexico or whatever it is? On the international topic, I just want to have a couple of topics. Within Dell we have actually started off a group in Ireland and a group in India. It came about because we have Dell teams in those locations, and they looked at what we had done in Boston. By the way, I forgot to mention, we also have an Austin meetup group that's run by Dell. And so they came to us and said, hey, you guys are doing this great job. They're between the two meetup groups. There are 700 people. How did you do it? So we got those people engaged and we had weekly conference calls with them and helped the Ireland group spin up. They are now in their third meetup. They're sort of taking the model that we have done it here. They are reaching out to the local companies that are doing OpenStack stuff and having them come and do a training session. They tend to see a lot of corporate people come to their sessions. But if there are people wanting to learn OpenStack, they are also doing OpenStack 101 sessions as well. Same thing in India. So in Bangalore they started off a new group. They started off with the local universities and people that wanted to learn this stuff they would come for a hands-on session with OpenStack. So it's worked out quite well with... Those two are spinning up pretty quickly now. So if you have... If you wanted to start a user group, the easiest way is to go to... If you had the initiative to do it on your own, is to go to the user group page on, off of OpenStack.org. There's a description of all the user groups that are already existing, so I'm not... Is there a user group in Mexico? No, okay. Okay, so generally that's the ripe... So this particular case, you find that there's not currently one there. So we've created some documentation on tried and true best practices of how to start up a new user group and how to keep it running. It's by no means finished, but it's a good start at the documentation. It's rather lengthy because there's a lot of things to be concerned about when you're, you know, setting up a space, getting sponsors, worrying about Wi-Fi, phones, everything else, lights. So that information is there for you. If there's also... This isn't as documented there, but you're welcome to partner with somebody like one of us up here in the stage. It's already running user group. It just reach out to us through Meetup. The information to contact the user groups are all listed on opensdac.org. Quite a few of them are through Meetup, but not all of them. Some of them are through LinkedIn, Facebook, Google+, Google groups. So reach out to one of us and we're happy. I know I am, I think. I'll speak for the rest, we're happy to help. One of the ways that I have both reached out to Meetups that I know that some of the people in my area are interested in, I'll reach out to, like there's an Austin Meetup, I just reached out to him and said, hey, I wanna join, I'll give you my Webex. I'll create a session and I'll open a room up at Yahoo and we'll join in. And we've done the same thing as well. We'll run Webex and we'll have a couple other user groups that are interested in talk and they'll join in. They'll open up a single room. It's a little bit more productive that way rather than having 25 different Webex, separate Webex sessions, having a couple of rooms and whether they're coming from Mexico or Ireland or around the block, it doesn't really matter. Does that answer your question? Okay, you're welcome. To add on to that a little bit, as far as collaboration between the other Meetup groups, almost all the presentations that are given at these things are intended to be very public. We post them on Slideshare or Web or else. So when you're starting a Meetup group, like I said, one of the most daunting things usually is coming up with that first set of content for that first meeting. So by all means, feel free to rip off content from others and I think that's something that any of us up here would be happy to support. Yeah, I would add something I forgot. Slideshare, definitely there's a ton of content out there. So if you just do a search on Slideshare for OpenStack, there's more than you would expect. But also there's an OpenStack channel on YouTube. So the previous conference, I believe all or most of the sessions are there but there's also a lot of Meetup sessions that start popping up there as well. So there's a ton of video content. So maybe that would give you a taste of maybe how a Meetup could be run or give you more information or a little bit of all the above. So there's a lot of information out there, maybe too much at this point. It's Stefano, community manager. So does something about this. So your earlier question on finding talent in OpenStack is a big challenge, which all of us are facing, right? So the way to do that is come to conferences like this, right? I mean, we are hiring right now. And of course, when you have your Meetups, people that are interested in this stuff have some background. If they know something about Amazon or if they know something about Rackspace Cloud, you can expect them to know a little bit about a background on what Cloud is. I mean, obviously they have to learn about OpenStack but in general, there's lack of talent out there. People are learning but it's a great field to be in right now. All right, we're over our time. If you have any additional questions, I'm sure the guys won't run away too quickly. But thanks for showing up. If there's any follow-up questions, I'm sure we're all here for the week and be more than happy to help. If you guys are trying to see the user group or Meetup that I'm sure the collective wealth of all of us together can get you going. Thanks a lot for the panelists. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.