 You are listening to Exploring Chiropractic, the only student chiropractic podcast. I'm your host, Nathan Cashin, and it's good to be back doing another episode about a chiropractic school. I'm so excited to kind of get back into that flow. I've just graduated, so I'm no longer a student, but I'm still doing a student chiropractic podcast. And back into the swing of things doing chiropractic colleges with me today from Cleveland Chiropractic College is Leslie Reese. Welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks so much for getting in touch. And, you know, we're talking about some project for SACA that I'm excited to get off the ground hopefully soon. But I appreciate you being willing to do a podcast episode. Yeah, I'm excited. So you are originally from what you call the Little Apple Manhattan. It's not what I call it. It's what everybody calls it. Okay, fair enough. Fair enough. It's Manhattan, Kansas, which is home to the Kansas State University, which I did not go to school there. I went to the University of Kansas. But it's not just an agricultural school, but they have a lot of, like, ag programs. And I live by horses and cows. So it's really all that you could imagine it would be. I went to school in BYU, and there's a, we didn't, in Utah, we didn't have a agriculture program that I knew of. But the other schools in the state, yeah, agriculture was like their biggest thing. Yeah, it draws a lot of kids from a lot of small towns, lots of cowboy boots. And, you know, then I moved away. So what, what got you into chiropractic? I, my dad had always gone and I like sprouted up really tall and was super lanky. You know, when I was between and I kept hurting my back, I would like extend. I'm really flexible. I kept hurting my back. And so that's what kind of when I started going, I thought it was really cool that like, I didn't understand like what they were doing because my first chiropractor did activate our technique. So you can do like the weird like touch here. And like, like, I don't do activator, but I thought it was really cool that he could like figure out what was wrong with me. I didn't like really have to tell him that something hurt a little bit. Like he kind of figured it out. I thought it was pretty neat. And one of those things where the hands seem to be drawn to the area that soar and I want to, I kind of wanted to figure out how to do that. So I did. Cool. Why did you choose to go to camp? Well, to Cleveland, which is in, in case students don't know, where is Cleveland Chiropractic College? So Cleveland Chiropractic College is, well, and I would, I would be corrected if I called it that it's Cleveland University Kansas City now. Oh, so it is it is another one of the chiropractic schools that's gone to university status. Yes. When did that transition happen? They've been working on it for the past year. So I'd say probably, they really kind of rolled it out in the fall probably, or maybe even after that. So yes, Cleveland University Kansas City. So we are in a suburb of Kansas City on the Kansas side, because obviously Kansas City is in Missouri as well. Is there a reason why they call it Cleveland University and specify Kansas City? Is there another location that they already have or planning on having? So there was, there was Cleveland University LA. And they closed that campus. I'm not exactly sure why there are a lot of schools in California. So maybe there wasn't a need. So I'm sure that's why they designate. And also a lot of people tend to think I go to school in Ohio. Right. I think, yeah, I've kind of made that mistake, even though I've known for so long that Cleveland is not in Cleveland, but that it's just named after the founder of it. Dr. Cleveland, is that right? Yes. And he's, well, Dr. Cleveland III is still there. Still acting as president. So yeah, that's, that's it's kind of history. Is there any reason you chose the school other than it seems that it's the closest to your home? It was definitely the closest. And that's, that's really kind of what drew me there. My brother was going there. My brother's eight years older than me. So we've never gone to school together. So when I started, we were in school together for the first time. And then aside from that, like my boyfriend was getting his masters in Manhattan in the little Apple. And so I don't want to be too far away, you know, where he couldn't travel. Yeah. Do you think you would make the same decision if location was not an issue? Having met people from other schools, I don't know. I'm, you know, I'm happy at Cleveland. Um, but I don't know. I, uh, I think that I would have done more traveling and, um, kind of explore my options a little more. I think Western seems like, seems like a great school, which is where you graduate from. Right. Um, I also think it's probably expensive to live out in Portland. Not as bad as San Jose. Oh, I know. I don't think I've ever If you want to go to Palmer West or life West, I, I visited those schools in Palmer West, you know, I was talking to students, what's rent like? And this was gosh, I'm going close to five years ago. The response was, well, for a studio apartment, it's like 1200 a month. Yeah. And I like, I, so I under, I think probably that their financial aid that they received probably supports that, but still I could, I don't know. I have a two bedroom for 700. I'm perfectly happy. There's so many factors to consider. And that's one of the things I like to touch on in, in this podcast for, you know, prospective students, they don't think about all these different factors and, and choosing the school close, you know, closest to family is very important, but it should never be, in my opinion, the first and definitely not the only criteria that you use to choose. Absolutely. Well, is there anything about Cleveland that surprised you after you started? Yeah, I think it was all kind of surprising to me. I kind of, I don't think I knew what I was getting myself into. I went to school at the University of Kansas for my undergraduate degree, which is in Lawrence, Kansas, which is where I live now. I move back. So I travel every day. But it's a very kind of liberal town and it's very kind of socially aware. And like this weekend, we've got like a Busker festival, which is like street performers. Did you say Busker? Busker, yeah, you know, like maybe like Busk on the street. Never heard it. So it's like, I imagine that's a lot like Portland, like on a much smaller scale. Okay. So I spent five years there. And then so when I got to Cleveland, I was kind of surprised that more people weren't like me. I don't know, like they came from small towns and, you know, a lot of folks from Nebraska and Missouri. And so that kind of was the transition for me. Somebody that I used to. What do, can you give a bit of a description of what you see when you first arrived to campus? So it, Cleveland's actually situated in a really great location in the Casey metro area. We've got an interstate that runs right by it. So as you are coming from the West going into Casey proper, you see like Cleveland's, I think it still says chiropractic college, like on this big hill. And you know, in the winter, there'll be people sweating down it. So that's kind of one aspect that you see. And that side is actually our outpatient clinic that you're viewing from there. And when our Royals won the World Series, they had light it up in blue. And it was really great. When you drive in as a student, you drive in on the opposite side. So there's still kind of a lot of green space. But you walk in on a separate floor and it's like your classrooms. So, you know, see patients getting lost up on our second floor and kind of direct them back down to the outpatient area. But yeah, it's a pretty great facility. And I could definitely see them not outgrowing it, but growing into more space potentially, which I think would be really great for them, especially since they're a university. Now, I think the plans expand at some point. What is the campus like? Is it more of a single building all self-contained? Or is there a lot of outdoor space? It is. It's a single building. The only thing that separates is our gym, which is available to the students. Our gym and our daycare. We have a daycare facility. Ooh, that's nice. So for students with families and children, there's a place for the kids to go, wow, that's very interesting. It's not free. There's a waiting list. But to be able to like run down in between classes and see your kid, I imagine is very valuable for people. So other than that, it is all in one building. But there's, I could see there being room to expand. And I think there has been talks. And as they kind of develop, I could see that happening for sure. So you guys are on the trimester system. It seems like about half the schools are trimester. The other are quarter. How do you feel that that works? And how does that play into what your daily schedule is like? Well, when I meet people, I feel like they're always really surprised that we go to school year round. I'm not sure what their impression of chiropractic education is. But I'm kind of used to going to school year round. And so we've got two week breaks between our trimesters. So we'll go for, you know, almost four months and then we've got two week breaks. And then back into the next trimester. But most days, we're starting at 730, between 730 and 930. And then since I'm in my seventh trimester right now, I'm in our student clinic. So I'm trying to kind of orchestrate when to fit my patients in, like when the clinic's open versus when I have class. And so that's been a really great puzzle. Do you have any control over your clinic schedule? It sounds like you can kind of plan that around your classes or is it established? Yeah. So I'm not really sure how other clinics work in other schools, but we the, you know, our student clinic is open for certain hours. And that time is available for students to schedule their patients. And then that student clinic is used when it's not open as a student clinic as classrooms or as a classroom. So for our clinic class, you know, where we're learning our EHR, we use the student clinic, which I think is great because you're in the environment that you're would be treating in. I think if they had a separate facility, it would, the benefit would be that the student clinic would be open longer. It'd be a little easier to schedule your patients. But yeah, I contact my patients, you know, log into our EHR and schedule them. And we've got, we've got 12 tables in there. And then we've got some private exam rooms for our, for our physicals. And we've got a PT day just in our student clinic. And then the other side of the hall is a similar setup for outpatient. That sounds really interesting. I don't know what other schools are like, but that's very different than mine. We have very strict rigid schedules where we have to be in the clinic, whether we have patients or not. And so once we're, you know, once we're in like, for us, it's a ninth, 10th quarter, we're spending about half of the day in the clinic. And we just, we just have to be there and then they schedule patients for. So it sounds cool that you get a little more of the, the experience of actually running your own mini clinic within the student clinic. Yeah, kind of like, we're all responsible for our patients. We all, you know, obviously we take HIPAA training. So, but we have one schedule. So I can see all of the appointments that are on there and schedule when it's open. We also have an intern lounge. So if I wanted to look up in the HR, some of my notes for my patients, I could do that there. And that's a really nice area to do that. And so the way they orchestrate it, you do have a certain amount of time that you do have to be in the clinic, but you kind of just sign in. So if I'm looking at a note in the student lounge, I would kind of log that time and make sure they knew I was in there. But other than that, yeah, like we've kind of got free reign. It's just pretty cool. I guess. Yeah, that autonomy sounds pretty nice. Yeah. Because oftentimes we just, we have times when there's no patients, but we just have to be there. And there's not, you know, a lot that we can do other than just sit there. And sometimes it ends up being playing computer games or studying for class. Yeah. So it's an interesting use of time. So can I ask you a question? Sure. Are you responsible for finding your own student patients? In a way, yes. I like to find you. In a way, no. So students, students that are also going to school, right? That's we start treating first for one quarter is only other students. They're assigned to a clinician, but then they can choose a student intern under that clinician. So let's say, you know, you're under a certain doctor and I want to come see you, as long as I'm assigned to that doctor, I can say I want to see you. Otherwise, I get assigned to another intern. So it's, there's a little bit of leeway with that, but really, it's, it's pretty much managed for you. That's interesting. All right. So the first two weeks of this trimester, my experience has been interns who are new to the, to the student clinic, kind of just running around like crazy to people they don't know, be like, do you have an intern? Do you have an intern? Like trying to schedule them. So that's really interesting. Yeah. And I hadn't heard any, any difference. So this is cool to see how the clinic experience is is different. I mean, we, we also, at least when I was there, had some restrictions on who we could bring in as well. So, you know, we couldn't just go out on the street and advertise. We could talk to family, friends and invite them to come in. But, you know, so it sounds like you get a little more of that experience to market yourself and to bring in patients, which is really important. Yeah, you definitely do. Wow. So cool to figure out these differences between the schools, especially with the clinic experience, which is so important, because that really sets you up. So how long have you been in the student clinic now? Two weeks. Oh, so you just started the clinic? Got it. Okay. We, we have two intro to clinic classes that we take before you even start to begin to treat patients in the clinic. So I think I've technically been like an intern for a little longer just because of those intro to clinic classes. But you're not, you know, it's not live. You're not going in and treating them. Okay. So it's probably a bit too early to ask you how well prepared you feel to start your own practice. I feel completely overwhelmed to start my own practice, which I think I hope a lot of people at this point kind of feel like that. I still have a year, a little over a year. But I can tell some of the classics, the classes I'm in now will prepare me for that. Does that make sense? I still feel overwhelmed and I'm graduating. I've, I just heard today that my license is going to be put in the mail tomorrow. So I'd better get things going and figure out. Well, whether in clinic or in class, can you think of one of the best experiences that you can remember while being in school? So probably the best experience I've had, I was kind of terrified of everyone my first trimester there. And my second trimester, one of my classmates, and said, Oh, I've been going, you know, to SACO, which is the Student American Heart Practice Association. I've been going to these meetings. I think you'd really like it. And so I kind of showed up. And then I went to our national leadership conference. And then I kind of, then we planned the national leadership conference, a couple of us, and then eventually I made it onto the national board. And so I think that's kind of been the best decision I've made. And it's blended the best experiences. I've got to know not just people across the country, but I've gotten to know a lot of people at school. And it's made me a lot more confident in asking questions and kind of like being aware of like what it will be like when I graduate. I feel like that's kind of really prepared. And I've been a really good decision to make while in school. The previous probably four episodes that I've done were all about NCLC. And I got to go for the first time. It was kind of cool. I didn't prep you for this, but do you have an experience from NCLC that you can share speaking and lobbying with any senators or congressmen? Well, so I actually just listened to some of your NCLC episodes today. And in a couple of them, you mentioned our veterans bill, which is to, so chiropractors are already supposed to be implemented into the A's across the country. And this kind of just like puts a timeline on it, kind of like puts their feet to the fire. So we lobbied for that while in DC. And that was kind of cool because we, lobbying in Kansas, were able to meet with the senator who introduced that bill and that senator ran from Kansas. So that was really kind of nice to, obviously like we're not convincing him to support it. He honestly already supports it, but it was really nice to kind of meet with him. And I thought that was kind of meaningful. But yeah, I've had a lot of good experiences. I got to sit in this last time and watch them vote, which was really exciting on the floor. Really in the, in Congress? Yeah, in the gallery. I don't, I couldn't tell exactly what they were voting for because they, so I didn't realize this, they are so like maybe this, maybe I shouldn't say maybe this is a secret. They're so chatty, like when they're in there and they're voting, like, and they always have to be called the order before they can, like continue. It was really interesting. It's like, that's when I see their friends. So they're just like really chatty and funny. I was able to attend one session like that years and years ago when I was in for a school activity. I was in DC. Yeah. And I didn't understand it. I don't understand that process. But so many people were fascinated by it. But that's kind of what I noticed too is it seems that for them, it's just kind of every another day at the office and they're chatting around the water cooler, you know, while around their desks or whatever as all of this, what you would think is very important legislation is happening. It was, it was nuts. It was very interesting. You got to see like the votes projected up. It was really cool. So I wouldn't have had that experience otherwise, I don't think. Very cool. Other than SACA, what other extracurricular clubs, et cetera, does Cleveland offer? Are you involved in anything else? I am involved in our student KCA in our, which is Kansas Chiropractic Association. We have a women's chiro group. We do a lot of adjusting seminars. We I've been involved in our MPI club to get some palpation institute. Yes, to get some practice adjusting. And we also have a diversified club. So we practice diversified techniques. So I've done kind of all of that. I've sat in on a couple of Sabaka meetings, which is the Student American Black Chiropractic Association. So we have a chapter there. But people can really like get involved in whatever they want at Cleveland. It's pretty easy to kind of start your own group based on your own interests. For instance, we have a veterans to chiro club. Because we have quite a few veterans. We've got an animal chiropractic club. We've got one of my friends just started like a Christian chiro club. So if you had some kind of like religious affiliation and wanted to start a club, you could do that. You just need like a faculty member to be your advisor and see kind of do whatever you have interest in. Great. It sounds like there's a lot of opportunities. A lot of different techniques. The animal chiropractic is one that I find so interesting. Yeah. Well, there's there's a school in Kansas, evidently. And I forget what I was talking to somebody about this. I forget exactly where it is for kind of animal chiropractic, but you know, they'll travel down there sometimes. Oh, really? So specifically for animal chiropractic? Yeah. Are they teaching veterans to do or not veterans to veterinarians to do adjustments? Or is it more for chiropractors to learn the specifics? I don't know exactly. I've been chatting. And I don't want to like say either way because I could be wrong. I've been chatting with somebody about it. I don't exactly understand the legality because our scope obviously identifies that we treat humans. But I think maybe you can work like under a veteran or veterinarian and they can kind of sign up often. I'm not exactly sure. I think it depends on the state. I think so too. Different scopes. Yeah. But I know quite a few chiropractors that have done it and are very successful. From what I hear, a lot of race horses especially always have a chiropractor. Yeah. And they'll, I mean, it might be a way to go though. I think they'll pay you quite a bit of money to treat their horse. I don't know. There's some people. Well, let's get real for a moment. You've talked about all the great things about the school. If you could choose one thing that just bugs the heck out of you to change, what would you change about Cleveland? So I don't know if it's like one specific thing. I kind of wish that I got more out of some of our classes. And I don't want to be too critical. But specifically, we have three public health courses that we take throughout our education. And then two or three research courses. And I just, I don't know, I feel like those could be a little bit better developed. I think if you're going to have them, I think you should make them worthwhile. And I think that they're both very important to our profession. But I also kind of feel like I might be the minority. And I just don't think people want to sit in a research class. And it's not that I want to, but I kind of see the value. I totally agree with you though. Everyone hated our research. We call them evidence, now evidence informed medicine or chiropractic. I don't remember. And it was the class that everybody else hated. But those are the ones that I was most excited about, at least to start with. Yeah, I think there's a challenge where the schools have their curriculum. But they also have, you know, the council on chiropractic education has specific requirements, certain number of hours that have to be devoted, for instance, to philosophy. And out of school, like Western states, where philosophy is not big, they still have to have the classes. And so it's kind of filler time. But I think if you're going to have them, even if it's just to fill the requirements, make them worthwhile. I agree. I think I make them the best that you can. And philosophy is, it is kind of a big deal at Cleveland. But I think a lot of the students keep well informed. But yeah, I agree. It was a public health classes. I think those are so important. I think you're going to be out treating the public. I don't know why you wouldn't make those the best that they could be. Especially with regards to what is presented in the media with regards to the risk of stroke recently with Dr. Ian and his YouTube channel down in Australia, with adjusting infants. We can make it more specific, although I think it's important to know the other stuff, whether it's cigarette smoking and general health. Yeah. So that's maybe been what I've been most frustrated about being there. But I also came from a teaching background. I was going to be a teacher if I wasn't a chiropractor. And so I feel there's a feeling maybe I'm a little critical. Fair enough. Fair enough. Well, if there was a prospective student who was thinking of going to Cleveland, what's one thing that you think is really important to know about Cleveland? Oh my gosh. Such a good question. I think, so I don't know if it's like this in other schools. I think that our classes are kind of, you know, in that like the class that you start with is kind of just the right size that you get really, really close. And I think, I don't know, I think that's kind of important to know like, maybe don't make any reason your class, you're going to be with them the whole time. But that hasn't happened in our class. Like it's been amazing. So, you know, I don't know, maybe just expect a community, even if, you know, you're not in love with everybody all the time. Like we do all kind of help each other out. And so I don't know, maybe that's something they could expect. So even if you're an introvert or a loner, you don't expect to be. I think it's like the Midwestern like manners kind of thing. You just talk to everybody. How large was your class that you started with? I think it was about 40 or 45. And I started in January, because you can start your round in September or January or May. And so it would have been obviously our largest classes begin in the fall. But it was about 40 or 45. And I thought it was a pretty good size. I think we've dwindled a little bit. But that always happens. Yeah, it does. Every school has a few in each class that kind of fall out along the way. Well, great. It's been awesome learning about Cleveland before we wrap it up. I would like to ask for your tick pick one thing related to chiropractic that you think all chiropractic students should know about. What have you got? Yeah. So something that student ACA has really been pushing this month specifically is the Medicare quality petition. And people don't know what that is. Currently, chiropractors are only reimbursed for treating basically three CBT codes under Medicare. So if your patient needs x-rays, they have to be sent out for those to be covered or physical therapy. Those have to be sent out. Any soft tissue modality, any extra spinal adjusting is not covered. And so we, the ACA wanted to increase access to chiropractic to all of our patients who could benefit from it. So I would just encourage those who have not already to sign the Medicare Equality Petition, go to www.acadaday.org backslash equality. It's super easy to sign the petition. It's really easy to display it in your practice and get your patients on board with it. But our goal is 500,000 signatures and we've made some good headway with the help. There you go. Do it right now while we're on the show. I don't think I've done this yet. Although I think I might have done it while I was at NCLC, but why not? Maybe. So hopefully we'll see some legislation soon to kind of affect that. That was it. That's really easy. Yeah, so easy. Just put your name and email address and then you're done. Wow, okay. Yeah, I think most people, especially patients, even don't understand this, that we can't get paid for an examination through Medicare. We can't get paid for the common modalities like e-stem, soft tissue massage, whatever it is you do, all you can get paid for is the adjustment. And adjusting spinal segments, if you do any extremity adjusting, like sorry. So I think it's an important thing to be aware of and to get your patients to be aware of family, friends, have everybody sign it if it's something that you agree with. Absolutely. Well, Leslie, thanks so much for being on the show and sharing Cleveland University, Kansas City. Thank you. I learned a lot. I learned a lot about the differences in the programs. And I think again, so important for prospective students to evaluate all of the schools and the different clinic experiences, the different way that the classes are presented. So I appreciate taking the time and sharing all of that with us. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Glad to do it. Let's send them out with the music. And I'll remind listeners to please follow Exploring Chiropractic on Twitter at Explore Chiro on Facebook. Check us out on iTunes. Like what we're doing. I think that's getting loud. If you like what I'm doing on the podcast, please go to iTunes and submit a review. However many stars you think it's worth. And thank you for listening. Continue to enjoy the journey.