 about 10 inches square I'd say and again it recognizes the the history of the building the plaques we're looking for for we're thinking about for all of our public art excuse me there's about 20 pieces in our town by the way is something museum size you know five inches by three inches something like that would be metal it's gonna go in the alleyway actually um we're just mounted somewhere at the entrance to the yeah I would love it right on the main street side of things around the frame because that building has a bay window wraps and I'm not sure that the width of the frame there may be possible to put it on a frame which would you would see it when you're walking down the sidewalk yeah or just along at the edge of the brick yeah I'd be perfectly happy to put that in this that's what I was thinking I figured you what what size maximum what like 10 by 10 10 by 12 yeah 10 by 10 I was thinking about the size if you think about a size of piece of paper it's gonna be more than one letter because otherwise you see it for 300 feet watch way too much TV the last two days I realized yesterday that you could watch 14 hours of real-time political TV she wants the hearings and then the Democratic debate which I did all odds part of it might be more exciting than watching designer you but we have three sources that we're looking at we get a little bit from the town hopefully on a yearly basis but that kind of depends each year it's not guaranteed we're also looking for public-private partnerships we're going to begin to seriously begin to talk to local business people in the next year and then finally fundraising thank you are you kids better thank you so what I said is it just a bronze color or dark color metal plaque up to a 10 by 12 with go 10 by 12 size maybe installed at the entry to the alley which describes the art project any mountings on a brick face will be located in the mortar joints of the break and again it gives you enough leeway I mean you can make it smaller certainly smaller than that but you want to have it a big enough so you can actually read the script that you're gonna put in the plaque any other comments questions suggestions from anyone oh the other thing I just up top I said the wire color of the light strings would be a dark color green or brown okay any other comments suggestions we'll go through there's a set of criteria right elevate evaluation criteria preservation or reconstruction of the appropriate historic style if the proposed projects in the historic district are also in a stark structure the application is acceptable harmony of exterior design with other properties in the district acceptable compatibility of proposed exterior materials acceptable compatibility proposed landscaping non-proposed in this application prevention of the use of incompatible designs buildings colors games or exterior materials acceptable location and appearance of all utilities acceptable recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant vistas including gateway views of the city and state house acceptable all in favor of the application it's proposed ratio and it is approved thank you very much is an administrative thanks for coming in appreciate your consideration and before you go I need to get you to sign this I'll draw they have your permit tomorrow okay good thank you thanks I hope you get good enough weather to make it easy for the install thank you grab those few days you can thanks again okay thank you good night come on up Fred next application 100 State Street capital Plaza are you all tonight less icy than we would be after tonight it's gonna get real cold I see you tomorrow great so just describe describe your gates they're caught their entries and exit gates we're putting met the Taylor Street entrance and just inside the State Street entrance at the edge of the building so that they drive through can get in and out be 24-hour parking paying we've been shuttling all for a whole year worse than ever three four times a week and we have no parking we can't control it so this is going to have to help us control them so come in the other way they can come any way they want but they're going to pay when they come in the first I think there's eight spots are on the seven spots on the bank side and seven six on the other be 13 the bank won't that'll be open for the bank once they go through the gates they'll have to get a ticket just like you do any other parking area but you're no cash if they just come off State Street it's fine if they go through the gate they're going to get a ticket but we're giving 15 minutes free anybody going it will have a 15 minute grace period okay the bank is gonna have a 15 minutes anyways and or they can go to their drive up or they can go in their side and not pay at all their side will be open all the time they can do whatever they want with it our side is going to be monitored we have people staying there overnight snowstorms we can't plow and what about the church church has a pass through we're gonna have special courage for them they will they I'm not sure if they've got 12 there's their plot plan shows 12 but when they tell me what they actually have they'll have the gates will be set up so that 12 people can enter and park the 13th will lock them out I don't understand it they're dropping gates yeah the toll gates you know like if you go behind Court Street on the way back toward the State House there's personally the gates but I don't under I just you got them on one entrance to what's a big free-for-all parking it on both it's on both ends both interest pastry to Taylor Street and the other yeah open the hole did it open it up what I don't understand is how the bank people can access that's a 15 minute free so they have to get a ticket people who are using the Northfield Bank have to get everybody entering the gates will get a ticket but they're using the bank they want and the bank they're we're thinking of doing things even with the city for about a month giving them parking so much of speed of it usually I missed the gates off if you see it right Eric or I see them that's but my concern is how are people going to get through to use the drive-through they'll look at a free ticket and they go through here and they go around here or they're coming in this way it's what they have to do now they can't come in the gates here they have to come in now go all the way around to come in this way or they come in Taylor Street and come in this way yeah I understand that first 15 minutes are free okay when you go back out you put your ticket if you're parking out here the first 15 minutes it'll be free I understand that I understand that so that people who are using the drive through that are going to have to go through the ticket correct so you got a ticket going through and then you pay going out right no cash credit card we'll have paid they call our P.O.F. pay-on-foot units in the hotel one by the back entrance inside one by the ballroom entrance and we'll also have a validation thing at the front desk some of you as near cat credit cards yeah or it doesn't work they can pay that way so if the public wants to park there like they do now yeah they've got to pay they're paying now what do you pay that where do you pay there's a box for the city okay they are but the city has so many that they can park in and so people go up they put their money or credit card in a little box and they put a ticket on their dashboard and don't they have to pay in advance and they put that on their dashboard they'll say till 2 o'clock and the police come by at 2 10 to give them a ticket and then you can use that ticket to get out you know you take a ticket they'll tell you what your time and you insert it when you leave and I'll tell you how much you'll just like you're going in a parking garage in Burlington yeah actually here the new garage will be with the same type of system it'll tell you if it's full if it's closed for the afternoon if we have a big function we'll close it off otherwise it'll be open for public parking just like always was it hotel guests park there free yeah or there may be a charge and we haven't settled on anything yet our tenants will have the same type of card as the church they will be able to access it and just we're doing it so they can either do it with a phone RFD or tap it with a card and go with it that way what's the rate I don't know don't know yet okay it won't be a dollar an hour like the city we're subsidizing that nobody subsidizing me yeah it won't be that bad but it may be progressive here there were seven hours or something like that it may start going up that's what they're doing a lot of the places now it's to stop this overnight parking notice parking costs half in there's no business in there either so come on I keep thinking I am part of the Union River chorus and we practice church right there and everybody comes in through that back door and parks in that back area so now they're going to be paying for parking well the church no the church will give you so many tickets to come in with they'll might have 50 or 100 tickets we don't care how many they have but after 12 people right now there's no place to park right so yeah because of the rest of there's not a whole bunch of other yeah if you've used your 12 spots up or 13 spots up the 14th if you want to park a lot they'll have to pay when they leave but if the 13th person leaves and the next person coming in he can take that spot he'll be allowed in it just locks it seems to be more than a design review saying oh yeah no it's going through more than just design review but it also has to go through design review because it's in design review and we're adding a structure if you're adding the gates oh yeah don't worry it's not it's not it's not I just yeah oh it's parking issues beyond our well and that's the design yep nope that's your and that's you don't need to worry about that really all you need to worry about is the gates and the design aspects of the gates market we've already got the problem yeah it's on private land we just can't control it so we're trying to control it now you were down there tonight you can't find a spot we have a big function tonight yeah the you know rejiggering of how the traffic flow goes and all of that has already been dealt with through department public works in our office the gates will open automatically for a siren police fire ambulance just have to bring their siren and I'll open up automatically for them and these will remain in place this is we're hoping that up until the time the garage gets started then you won't eat them then then you're going to have to put your money in the garage but fairly permanent locations do you plan a long time before the garage gets well there are city lawyer told us two weeks ago that don't look for anything until 2023 and don't think you're going to start before 2024 I can tell you if it's that long you won't probably won't see me waiting I can't keep dumping money into something because two people want to hold it up you know maybe you should paint his window so we can't see out the window the same thing about it is the basis is the trucks can't turn around down it below and they don't anyway they can't now they never did never did they do have a new design for the garage by the way it's much much smaller much narrow pushed more on to our property I think they're down just to last about 10 spots from what I just saw yes it's a preliminary well in terms of the design of the gates I don't have any problem with the design of the gates no their gates their gates although they will be the first well I was going to say the first gates in Montpelier but that's not true there used to be gates on that property in 1980 when Anders and Kim Murray bought it they had them on both ends and twice the same woman drove through and broke them and the guys refused to put them back up again they even had a box at the front entrance where they were collecting money with people going through and that didn't last long either are they lit at night or just the reflective so the lights you have the box will be lit up so you can read and everything else no I'm in the gate itself so no they're not okay because that's reflective just reflected yeah I may put a small light at the on the exit with a camera so they can monitor and people drive everything you know no you're right that's gotta protect unfortunate I need to questions comments suggestions I'm fine there's no landscaping because I'm we're just going to block it for now yes landscape will come with the garage in the hotel nobody has anything to add at this point we can go through the criteria evaluation criteria number one preservation reconstruction of the appropriate historic style if the proposed projects in the historic district also in a stark structure acceptable harmony of exterior design with other properties in the district acceptable compatibility of proposed exterior materials acceptable compatibility of proposed landscaping non proposed in this application prevention of the use of incompatible designs buildings color schemes or exterior materials acceptable location and appearance of all utilities acceptable recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant vistas including a review of the city and status acceptable all in favor of the application is proposed ratio Eric I saw the historic sites did a dig three four spots on our property for getting ready and then they sent back a historic description that they've gotten from times I guess wherever they got it from starting back from the 1700s it was like 30 pages and I read it the other day those guys are really good at what they I mean really amazing and when it got to around the 1900s my father-in-law used to tell me about some of these people and I remember their names even J. Leo Johnson owned a prop couple of properties there all the last two sentences said they unearthed a 1911 Vermont license plate so I wrote to him I says is any possibility I can get that plate for our hotel and I'll send it to you they tried looking it up but the records don't go back that far to see who the registration was oh that's all right that's great you remember J. Leo Johnson you remember him don't you the Chrysler garage oh yeah it was a Chrysler garage in the back along the river it used to be a was a capital garage there well but that was over in a corner and that was Malone's first garage the father's first garage and then this boy Malone took over and then he opened up Woodbury auto with J. Leo Johnson had a Chrysler garage at the back of the building on the side of the tracks and our family bought the Chrysler garage in the late 70s and that's when they moved it up to very popular road in the midtown and they used to have a dry cleaning plant right next to it and I forget who the guy Adams and then how how dry cleaners bought it next remember they owned the one up across from our laundry madam Main Street how cleaners before he sold it but what they everybody did they took their filters and a tripe and they put them outside on the ground and that's why you have so many I've got 11 wells on the ground amazing number of garages that used to be downtown where the place where neck he is yeah that was a Chevrolet garage yeah do you know where the showroom was the showroom for the garage out there in that building with a tattoo parlor is yeah in my laundromat they have those windows where the overhead garage doors number three in the back and then they would drive the car in and in the front of the building where my change machine was there was a huge steel door that would slide on like a barn door and they would drive the car into the front window of the tattoo parlor that was a showroom and that was down East Chevrolet and then they bought the other one in Barry and he combined in the barrier on a pillar of the up in Morrisville there's a garage there a guy about 90 ran it and he had one car on the floor and he'd drive that car and any door or whatever you wanted I guess but it still had model a and model t tool boards up yeah I wouldn't be surprised now the keen family owns it now the keen family owns it yeah the analyst from my failure done thank you you're all set good so I think I think I don't know if Audrey got the additional information I sent her a whole bunch to you there's really no flood proof you can do these things because there's six inches above and then all the controls are six inches and it's bolted it's nothing but a steel cabinet it's yeah they're gfi protected and then put them in the building so yeah you'll need to my thing is trying to figure out a way to get cat six wire out there from our building so just at the tunnel underneath the sidewalks it's okay right thank you see you later thank you go home early you might get some more of the bait still on a TV yeah just thank you the minutes we can't do the 21st but the three of us here for the four yes so does anybody have any questions comments or changes to the yes take a look at the adjournment it says Eric made a motion to approve whoops I think that means a turn to a turn yeah my favorite motion I noticed the congressional hearings that the chairman just he closes it closes it and I think you have that story I don't have a hammer you could also time us time us when we have comments with that change do I hear a motion to approve minutes second all in favor of the November the fourth minutes ratio and approved and giving us an update on the yeah so the planning commission made some final adjustments I don't have the revised draft but the historic preservation commission and planning commission went back and forth a bit on changes to the design the definition for historic building and pretty much stuck with the current definition of historic building there were some expansions on the overlay district including so some tweaks that were just bringing in you know a couple of parcels to make sure that all of a neighborhood was part of the district and part of the neighborhood was part of it bring in the rest of it I think probably one of the biggest changes was actually adding in all of your neighborhood up behind the state house that was very confusing and getting added into that we ended up with that all added into the district right yeah I should I should have gone around the boundaries on there because they're sort of nothing they don't match the National Register boundaries anything else I didn't look at it I guess the neighborhood boundaries were designed to try and make sure neighborhoods were consistent not just historically but also when you came to okay this is a residential neighborhood 80% of the houses in this neighborhood have similar setbacks or similar lot sizes and a similar character overall characteristics so the the neighborhoods for zoning purposes aren't necessarily going to match with the historic districts but I think that having that as a basis for saying this is why this is all being pulled into design over by whether it's for historic purposes or not the historic preservation commission and the planning commission we're going to sit down and do this together but that didn't happen so I'm still a bit annoyed about that because I think we picked up most of the change but I was the only one that showed up to me yeah yeah it was I think you know I think it's going to be better that doesn't mean that there can't be more work to tweak things and make make things better later I think we ought to look at those boundaries I just haven't had yeah I can we can we can do more of that in historic preservation for sure yeah and try and you know pull design review committee members in as well as anybody wants to come to a boundaries look like a southern gerrymander they're just take over zigzag all over they're all over the I mean it's not you know so there the plan is that the new design review regulations will have their first public hearing in front of planning commission in January so they've got to have to put to public hearings I think for planning commission and then hopefully move forward to city council hopefully there won't be a lot of public pushback and have them decide to rework it but we'll see what happens you never know it's not like anybody showed up at the planning commission discussions that we just had no nobody either time no no outside voices I was reading the article in a newspaper about the other have a proposal before for the old armory department and I think that's an historic building I think be helpful it's a preservation we're involved in that we should I talk to about that Mike maybe it hasn't I mean it hasn't really come through our door at all yet I don't know how much Mike knows about it I mean it mostly did you can't and they they they missed it it was a newspaper or Red Wolf missed there's a major settlement problem it's a rare the building that they didn't talk about fixing hmm so you can see there's two big cracks just I mean I looked at it 15 years ago I don't think it's moved a lot but it should be addressed structurally oh yeah but I don't know where they are aren't it's interesting there's a shooting range in that building well it was an armory so yeah in the basement they had a shooting range in the basement my high school had a shooting range and a bowling alley your high school did yeah big high school 5500 people oh my god wow we're we're Evan Samilla no I just north of Chicago yet somebody had to set pins they just had a mechanical pin setter I would prefer to do I prefer to do that than roll speaking of was that a motion to adjourn it is your second second it all in favor of adjournment raise your hand meeting is adjourned