 Good afternoon everybody, welcome to DDRC members, staff and guests. We ask for your patience during this meeting. Multiple staff members are behind the scenes to make sure that the meeting runs smoothly and applicants and citizens are able to communicate with the commission at the appropriate time. Public will be able to participate via multiple methods. When participating, please provide your name for documentation purposes. The public may watch, email, phone in, or log into a web session. If you're watching, you may stream the meetings through City TV, accessed at www.youtube.com, backslash user, backslash Columbia SC government. The public may submit letters and statements via email to cocboardmeeting at columbiasc.gov leading up to and or during the meeting as this account will be monitored throughout the proceedings. Emails or letters will be read into the record. If you'd like to phone in, you can call 855-925-2801. When prompted, please enter the meeting code 2252. Those participating by phone will receive three options on how to participate. Star 1 will allow you to listen. Star 2 will allow you to record a voicemail message that will be read into the record. And Star 3 will allow a participant to be placed in a queue so that they may speak live when prompted. Please make sure your computer audio is muted if calling in live via your phone so we don't get feedback. You can stream the meeting via the web at publicinput.com backslash cocddrc-can2022. We'll call the roll. Ms. Brannum. Here. Mr. Brum. Here. Ms. Jacob. Here. Mr. Salibi. Here. And Mr. Wolff. We have quorum. In order to avoid ex parte communications, DDRC members are under strict instructions not to discuss cases under consideration with the public or with each other outside of the public forum. The meeting typically starts with staff calling the case, giving a summary of the project, and then calling on the applicant to present if they wish. Decisions are typically made on one evening. Decisions may be appealed within 30 days to a court of competent jurisdiction. Oaths will be administered individually as we hear either from applicants or from live speakers. Applicants with requests before the DDRC are allotted a presentation time of 10 minutes. This time should include but is not limited to an overview of the project, case history, and any pertinent meetings held regarding the request. This time also includes all persons presenting information on behalf of the applicant such as attorneys, engineers, and architects. This time limit does not include any questions asked by the DDRC or staff regarding request. Members of the general public are given the opportunity to address their concerns and intervals of two minutes. Applicants may have five minutes to respond. Staff has a timer and will make presenters aware of when their time has expired. Are there any changes to the agenda? There are no changes to the agenda. The DDRC uses the consent agenda to approve non-controversal or routine matters by a single motion and vote. If a member of the DDRC or the general public wants to discuss an item on the consent agenda, that item is removed from the agenda and considered during the meeting. The DDRC then approves the remaining consent agenda items. Will staff please read the consent agenda? Our first project is 122 Try-On Street, a request for a preliminary certification for the Bailey Bill. This is in the Granby Architectural Conservation District. The next project is 1617 through 1619 Hayward Street, a request for a preliminary certification for the Bailey Bill in the Wales Garden Architectural Conservation District. Our third case is 1529 Assembly Street, a request for a design approval for an addition and side improvements in the City Center Design Development District. And our last case is 920 Gregg Street, a request for a design approval for exterior changes and preliminary certification for the Bailey Bill in the University Hill Architectural Conservation District. Is there anyone from the DDRC that would like any item removed from the consent agenda? Is there anyone from the public that would like to have an item removed from the consent agenda? Please communicate by sending an email to COC Board Meeting at columbiasc.gov or communicate via phone by pressing star two. Believe a voicemail or star three to speak in person. We will pause a moment to allow any communication from the public. We have not received any emails or phone calls. Do I have a motion and a second to accept the consent agenda and also the December minutes? I take a motion to approve the consent agenda in the December minutes. Second. Mr. Broom. Yes. Ms. Sims-Sprannam. Yes. Ms. Jacob. Yes. Mr. Salibi. Yes. And Mr. Wolfe. Yes. The motion passes. Great. We'll move to the regular agenda, please. Our first case on the regular agenda is 1231 Gervais Street. This is a request for design approval for exterior changes specifically for replacement windows for the Supreme Court building. The case originally came before y'all in April 2021 and there was a larger scope that was approved and replacement windows were approved as well with the condition that a mockup window would come back to y'all upon fabrication for your review and approval. So that is what we are here today for is for approval strictly of the mockup window for review and approval of the mockup window. So the window was fabricated and it's been at the back of the Supreme Court building for about the last week. The architects and I spoke about details on the window. Staff feels generally that it looks good with some of the details that were spelled out by Mr. Joe Guido as needing attention. There is agreement on those. So interior grids need to be applied to the window. But the final window will have ballistic glass. I just wanted to note that this is not the final glass in the window. For purposes of the mockup it was not. There's some small details like that medallion where the mutants come together and need to align properly. There's a rather extensive cock joint that would be minimized that we've discussed. And there's a ridge missing on the vertical mullion of the window. These are just strictly the arched windows that we're talking about right now. It's not only one that was required to have a mockup done because these are the most prominent windows. So those details that ridge on the vertical mullion needs to be addressed to. And those are some of the things that we talked about fastener that's visible that needs to become invisible if it's part of the final window. So anyway, staff feels like generally the window is a good mockup. That there are a lot of details that were well done and we just need to address these. So the recommendation by staff was to grant a certificate of design approval for the replacement windows, allowing staff to work out remaining details as listed with the applicants. And including the details of any other windows to be replaced for security purposes and any details which cannot be worked out. Where are sufficient important to warrant reconsideration by the DDRC? Maybe return to y'all for approval. That's where we are leaving it and opening it up for discussion with you all. And the architects are here if y'all have questions for them or would like to discuss anything with them. And it sounds like from your conversations, staff with architect, they're working with you and amenable to the items that have been pointed out. That's right. And that was one reason I felt confident about moving it forward and leaving details to staff because they seem committed to working these out. I was excited to see the mockup window. I dropped Amy a note every few months. Since we had this case, wondering where you are in the process, I went by and looked at it and I was pleased with what I saw with the comments that you had. I don't know if any other commissioners have any other comments on it. I totally agree. I think that I really appreciate the architect working on the details that they could clearly see needed some improvement in the mockup. And I have every confidence that the staff can continue to work with them to finalize it. And again, if there are any issues that you can't be resolved, then we're happy to relook at that. But it's starting to look beautiful. Are there commissioners any comments or concerns? All right, with that, I'd ask for a motion. Well, I guess I'll make a motion. I'd like to recommend- Oh, I'm sorry. Hold on. But we have to have a comment. I'm sorry. Yes, I'm in a Blitz Creek here. So guys, I'm sorry. It's been a long month. All right, sorry. Let's go back. We encourage those who would like to communicate via email to begin sending in letters and emails. You may email at COC board meeting at ColumbiaSC.gov or communicating on the web at publicinput.com backslashcocddrc-jan2022. For those wanting to leave a voicemail or speak live, call 855-925-2801. When prompted, please enter the meeting code 2252 and then press star two to begin leaving a voicemail. Or if you'd like to speak live, press star three. We're checking all sources at the moment. I guess I felt like we discussed this case so much when we did that we were in great shape. We have not received any emails or phone calls. Any comments received in writing? No other comments? Okay. All right. I will now receive an emotion. Well, then I'd love to move that we, based upon Section 17-2.5 of the City of Columbia Unified Development Ordinance, that we move to grant a certificate of design approval for the replacement of windows at 1231 Gervais Street, allowing staff to work out the remaining details as listed with the applicants, including the details of all other windows to be replaced for security purposes. Any details which cannot be worked out or are sufficient importance to warrant reconsideration by the DDRC may be returned to the DDRC for approval. This approval is based upon the prior approval which allowed the replacement windows in April 2021, given the extraordinary security needs of the occupants and which required the review and approval of the first floor mock-up window. Second. Second. Mr. Brum. Yes. Ms. Sims-Branham. Yes. Ms. Jacob. Yes. Mr. Salibi. Yes. And Mr. Wolff. Yes. The motion passes. Next case. Our next case is 2210 Clark Street. This is a request for a certificate of design approval for exterior changes. The structure at 2210 Clark Street was constructed circa 1911 and is two stories with a hip roof. It has a partial width, shed roof front porch, and two front doors as it has been converted into a duplex since its construction. It retains its original form and like a number of other structures in Elmwood Park has had vinyl siding added to the exterior and some of the windows replaced. Overall, the structure is consistent with patterns in the district. The applicants are requesting to replace some non-original 1 over 1 wood windows. As these windows are later replacements and in poor condition, they may be replaced with appropriate replacement windows. This can be reviewed and approved at staff level. The windows requested for replacement that require review are on the facade and right elevation, which is currently obscured by vegetation on the neighbor's property, which, if removed, would make the right side highly visible. The applicant is requesting approval for vinyl replacement windows. Those are a key feature on historic homes that play an important role in the overall architectural integrity of a structure. Appropriate replacement windows that replicate historic profiles and detailing help maintain the integrity of districts as a whole. As such, when reviewing replacement windows in architectural conservation districts, preservation staff look at technical aspects of their replacement windows construction, including the sash size, muntin profiles, measurements of the rails and styles, and depth created by the distance between the front of the frame of the sash and the glass. Staff's experience has been that vinyl windows generally do not meet these technical standards. As you can see in the presentation in front of you, the comparison between a cross-section of a typical vinyl window, which was used as the applicant did not provide an interior, excuse me, an exterior view of the proposed window, versus a historic wood window shows the overall lack of depth of the vinyl window. While it is possible to include a muntin on the exterior of the vinyl window, like this one, the resulting muntin is flat, making the window lack the necessary depth overall. Compare that then to an aluminum clad window versus a historic wood window. The aluminum clad window leaves sufficient room for a muntin to create the overall depth that is standard in historic windows. I've brought a sample of an aluminum clad muntin, which was given to our office by a window representative. Amy's going to bring that up for you now. This is just an example of the type of profile that can be created with an aluminum clad window. And just as a note, the aluminum clad muntin that you will see in just a moment actually matches exactly the depth of the historic window shown here. As vinyl replacement windows have not previously met the necessary technical specifications, when the applicant requested to use this material, staff reviewed a sample of the window on site. In reviewing the proposed window, staff found that it was not consistent with the details of historic examples in the district or on this home. Other materials previously approved in the district, such as aluminum clad wood windows, are significantly more successful in replicating the details of historic wood windows, including muntin profiles instead of the glass and overall depth and profile of the window, as shown in these slides. As a result, staff denied the request to use the vinyl windows, which the applicant has elected to appeal to the DDRC. The review standards as set out in the unified development ordinance addressed replacement materials in several places, including F. Deteriorated historic features shall be repaired rather than replaced. Where the severe deterioration or complete loss requires replacement of a distinctive feature, the new feature shall match the old in design, color, finish, texture, and other visual qualities. And, where possible, materials. Replacement of missing features shall be substantiated by documentary, physical, or pictorial evidence, and character defining features that have been lost due to intentional damage, removal, or neglect shall be rebuilt. As these windows are damaged beyond repair and they are not original, they may be replaced, but the replacement windows need to be considered carefully. As the pane configuration of the historic windows on the structure are two over two, the replacement windows should replicate this pattern, as well as the profile of the historic windows. The proposed windows do not successfully meet this standard. In looking into past precedent for how requests of this nature have been handled, vinyl windows have not been approved in this district for either historic structures or new construction. As previously stated, architectural conservation districts prioritize the details of structures to ensure a high level of architectural integrity is retained in the district. Previous requests to use vinyl windows have not met those standards. Vinyl windows were not visible from the public right of way, such as on the rear structures are permitted. All in all, staff finds that their proposed replacement windows at 2210 Clark Street do not comply with section 17-2.5 G6B2 of the city ordinance and recommends denial of the request for certificate of design approval for exterior changes. It should be noted once again that replacement windows that are compliant with the requirements for the district may be submitted and approved at staff level. Any questions to staff? The sample represented what? What was it what they represent? The sample is just to show you that the profile that aluminum clad windows can achieve when compared to historic wood windows up on your screen right now. There's a side by side showing you a cross section of an aluminum clad window and a wood window. You can see that overall there's a similar amount of depth between the edge of the frame and the glass, whereas when you look at the vinyl window or a typical vinyl window as compared to an aluminum clad window as is up on the screen now, you can see that overall that vinyl window lacks the same kind of depth that you see in aluminum clad windows and historic wood windows. Thank you. Any commission or any questions or clarifications? I believe the applicant. Is the applicant here? Yes. Okay. You you want to come up? Please come up and state your name and do you swear to tell the truth in these proceedings? My name is Denise Jolly and I do swear to tell the truth in these proceedings. I did submit information prior to the 10th. Our biggest concern the house that we are in now was obviously built before I was born and before we honestly truly decided to be permanent residents of this area since that decision to take up residents permanently there we have started to restore inside things are obviously over the years not properly done and so in our research and restoring we have found not only from an EPA standpoint but just from a consumer standpoint that vinyl windows are longer lasting and I also submitted information from the government website on vinyl versus aluminum windows as far as like environmentally friendly and energy efficient windows and our biggest thing is one we have no issue in complying with like going forward and following information for what needs to be done which is how we kind of found out about the historical preservation even just going forward anything we've done on the house before when looking at the windows even the ones that were in our house to begin with a lot of the companies have gone out of business parts could not be replaced or ordered there's about eight windows on our house the company has gone completely out of business and so the company that we chose that does do the vinyl has been in business for over 80 years again that compliancy with energy efficient and EPA cited by the the dot go website that I submitted I get the aesthetic appeal and like the visual of like fitting into historical situation but for us this is our home and the longevity of it and to look at the window for me to go I'm not when you're walking by my window visual you're not going to be seeing the inside of the sash you're going to see the two lines and the double pane that fits in there and for us this is not like a side project this is our home that we'll be in we hope to be in for a significant amount of time and to not have to replace something every 15 to 20 years some of the pictures I submitted some of these windows that are coming out have been a mix of materials would vinyl not sorry not vinyl aluminum which obviously were put in poorly but it just shows that over time it has not sustained the company that we chose that we're asking to put the windows in has a lifetime guarantee as a person who's purchasing the windows we have reassurance that there's something wrong with the windows they'll be replaced which allows us to to maintain the upkeep of the home um and therefore just to add to the value of our neighborhood I'm gonna open up to any questions first of all thank you so much for for investing in this neighborhood because I think it's a wonderful neighborhood to be it's an amazing neighborhood yeah that's why yeah I decided to say and and I do think that um clearly you need to replace those windows and and we begin an approval to do so I think that you will find back to um your return on investment and things like that and in keeping with the guidelines that your aluminum clad windows are going to give you both the insulation that you're looking for the long-term maintainability and the profile that that we need for the historic district and and you know the other window manufacturer may be telling you that that's not true but that that is possible to find a relatively inexpensive aluminum clad window that has that profile that has the wood that's clad with the aluminum and it gives you that profile plus the insulatory factors that you're looking for it's not just a hollow aluminum window it's a clad wood so I think in the long run you'll be happier with the look of your home having the profile I realize that it's a long aside part but you never know I mean even on your interior for your purposes it's going to be your home you're going to see the same profile experience from what you have in your other window so I do believe that it's possible to get the best of both worlds by going with the recommendation of the staff and still meeting your your needs I think and I hear what you're saying because we did like once we got the first initial like denial like I probably called upwards of like seven to eight different companies for us none of us could offer the same guarantee that this company was going with not only that it was oftentimes like the length of time for the amount of windows that we need as you can see I was like we've got a window almost coming out of the side so while it's not like a completely broken window it's obviously an urgent thing some upwards of to 20 weeks for us to wait for windows and again I think for us being a prior military family like we're not investors we don't have a whole lot of money so for us this is what is going to get us the best quality of window that complies with like energy efficiency because at this point our energy bills are running about $500 a month of what we have on the window right now and then again just looking at that EPA from the government website and knowing that this is like energy efficiency like star rated and even some of the companies that we called to get that energy star rating are double pain for the aluminum we were going to be spending double what we were quoted for the vinyl windows so is it possible that you don't have to replace all of the windows are there some that you could keep and then maybe over time continue to do the replacement and I do appreciate that there's a backlog on on all building products these days so I'd be shocked if if the other company could actually get them to you quicker than can the others but maybe they maybe they can but but you know maybe an option is to try to just replace the most needed ones with the aluminum clad wood windows and then maybe over time start to replace the others might might be one way to to look at it so it's already kind of a weird situation because there are some historical windows on the home so there are five windows that we are keeping them like the original windows restoring the wood and doing that part but for the most part the rest of these windows like we have one that's in our older son's bedroom like another good storm probably coming through it's going to fall out you know it's going to fall out of the side you see the one where that's not even his bedroom like that's just like the downstairs side window and that's pretty much the condition of all of the windows that need to be replaced like they are holding on by a prayer at this point so again for us it's keeping the look and honoring like what needs to be visually in the community but getting it done getting it done safely getting it done something that's going to have longevity for our family and if I can call a company and know that they've been in business in America for 80 years and look at the warranty compared to some of the other companies that I've had because even in the neighborhood where there are the new windows going into the new construction they may be the aluminum but we're looking and researching and so some of these and the hardest thing too is the replacement aluminum so not even just getting aluminum for new construction but if you're looking for replacement aluminum windows in homes it is not as easy to find or order especially at this size as it is for the vinyl windows I do hear you and I promise we have I have done awful lot of research doing all this and like you said like for us it is the neighborhood you know like I sit on the new member council and I lead the women's bible study at Earlwood so like this neighborhood is not just an investment like this is our home and this is our community and so we do want to honor the restoration of this home as much as possible. Just a quick question for the applicant and for staff and thank you for being here today. I can certainly relate to your concerns being a homeowner myself and not wanting to undertake costs that are above my budget but I noticed that staff and their findings and comments mentioned that the vinyl windows the exemplars were not consistent with what was found in the neighborhood do you have any pictures of other examples you were able to find or are you asking about vinyl windows that are in the neighborhood right so any vinyl windows that are in that neighborhood were either there before the district went into place replaced without permits they were not approved as a part of the historic district. When referencing other examples of windows in the district we're talking more specifically about historic window profiles that's really where the issue comes into play even the windows the wood windows that are on their home have the same kind of depth as other historic wood windows in the area and as previously mentioned vinyl windows and the ones that are proposed just don't really come anywhere close to recreating my profile. Yeah I mean and this issue of course comes up a lot and unfortunately our role is to enforce you know what's required in the ordinance right now and clearly not all windows are made equally we've learned and I know it's a it is a challenge any other questions or comments all right well thank you we can move on to any public questions or comments. Does staff have any follow-up or anything you want to share or I will just add as well that appropriate replacement windows are an eligible expense for the Bailey bill. Y'all see Bailey bills quite frequently more often than not on the consent agenda but since appropriate replacement windows would restore historic profiles to the the windows that have since been replaced like I said that would be an eligible expense a way to qualify for that 20-year tax abatement so I just want to mention that as so staff could work with a homeowner to understand that process. Okay have you have you already discussed that with her? Yes okay great yeah I would definitely think that's a great thought to to pursue that option to help with the financial. In regard to the Bailey bill like as you know like there's even with the vinyl that was put on at some point illegally before we were in the home like there's plenty of other projects that we are going to use the Bailey bill for the vinyl like fixing that and restoring that like Driveway our HVAC system there's a lot of things that we know that will go towards the Bailey bill this is the windows in itself why we decided to even come appeal because at least the windows are in a budget where we know that we wouldn't get that reimbursement from the Bailey bills but we'll stood foot in within that $25,000 range where we're okay with not having to use the Bailey bill for that. Thank you. I will just mention to you that if vinyl windows are put into this home it's no longer eligible for the Bailey bill so even for any other kind of restorations we encourage those that would like to communicate via email to begin sending and letters and emails you may email cocboardmeeting at columbiasc.gov or go on the web at publicinput.com backslashcocddrc-jan2022 for those wanting to leave a voicemail or speak live call 855-925-2801 when prompted please enter the meeting code 2252 then press star two to begin leaving the voicemail if you'd like to speak live press star three it doesn't appear that we've received any phone calls or emails that being said i'll um oh anything and writing we were clear right okay all right with that i'll open up for a motion i guess i'm in charge of motions today i don't know if i was elected but i didn't know it i would like to um move that the request be denied for the certificate of design approval for these exterior changes at 2210 Clark street as it does not comply with section 17 2.5 b2 of the city ordinance replacement windows that are compliant with the requirements for the district may be submitted and approved at the staff level second second mr bram yes miss sims brannum yes miss jaco yes mr salidi yes mr wolf motion passes all right we'll move on to other business so the only thing we have under other business tonight would be our elections for chair and vice chair we had those open for nominations and um what i heard was that folks are basically very happy with the folks who are presently serving um and i did hear from the folks who are presently serving that they are happy to continue serving if that is still wanted um we of course can open up the floor for other nominations if anyone else would like to nominate another member of ddrc for chair or vice chair nominations open all right hearing none um then i would suggest that we just do a show of hands um uh for i guess we would start with our chair first so miss jaco being willing to serve and uh would be our our nominee and all in favor of proving miss jaco for a chair please raise your hand so nominated that passes thank you mr salibi has been nominated for vice chair and if we could see a show of hands for vice chair and that has been passed so thank you both for serving once again we appreciate this this is these our terms last for a year in case for newer members um so we always have elections in january so i like to make a motion to adjourn second there we go all right meeting adjourned thank you everybody thank y'all yeah there we go there we go