 I think by now, most of us will know that some of India's top wrestlers are on the street protesting against the President of the Wrestling Federation of India, Bheesh Bhushan Sharan Singh. The allegations are serious. They involve harassment of all kinds, including sexual harassment, of course, mental harassment and such. Including one case of sexual harassment being alleged by a minor as well. What we are trying to ask the reporters and journalists who will be joining us on the show today on Newsleth is why so little has been done in terms of concrete action by the government and by the police. Why have these wrestlers been forced to remain sitting in at Jantar Mantar for 19 days now, close to three weeks? Joining me on the show today are three journalists who have very different sorts of engagement with the wrestling fraternity. Sharda Agra is here. Sharda, I think everyone knows, so we'll skip the introduction part. But she is also here as a member of the network of women in media, the India chapter of that network. And we'll be talking about different ways in which various sort of sections of society have expressed solidarity with the protesting wrestlers and what they are protesting for, in fact. Satyam is with us. Satyam has been covering the protests for Newsleth from the beginning. He has been at the site regularly speaking to the wrestlers themselves as well as other people, those who are there supporting the wrestlers, whether it's trade unions or political parties or representatives of political parties, student organizations and a host of normal people who have gone over to sit with the wrestlers, to meet with the wrestlers and to express their participation or their support for this cause. We are also, I think, we have with us Leslie Javier who is having a bit of trouble with his audience, but he has joined us now, hopefully that will be sorted. Leslie is also a veteran journalist who has covered wrestling at every level in India from the dangles that happen in various parts of the country to the Olympic Games, where some of the protesting wrestlers, of course, have won medals. And he himself has a history of being a wrestler, a national level wrestler. So he will also bring some of that experience and understanding of the culture in which wrestling operates in India into the picture. Satyam, we'll start with you, of course, because you're the man on the ground. What is the latest? Yesterday, there was a press conference that you attended and also you have come to the village of Sakshi Malik, so you are reporting a lot, not just on the events as they are happening because there are not parts happening at such a rapid pace, not at least as fast as we would want them to, but also in the sense of the broader political and social dynamics that are at play here. So Satyam, tell us first what is the latest? The latest is that today, on the 11th of May, the wrestlers called it Black Day. And today, since the morning 10 am till 2 pm, they were wearing those black bands on their heads and on their hands. And they also appealed to the people all over the country that they should celebrate Black Day today as well. And with the black clothes on, we have come to support each other. Yesterday, there was a press conference that you told us about. There were a lot of important things that the wrestlers were talking about. Sakshi Malik even said that if the President of the WFI of Britbushan Sharan Singh, if he is so innocent that he claims to be, why don't he take a narco lie detector test? He should get a narco test done and the people who have applied for an autopsy, they should also get a narco test done. The entire truth or the water of milk is going to be done if they get a narco test done. The committee that was set up on 23rd of January, which was headed by Marikom, the oversight committee, the reports of the committee and the findings of the committee, there were also a lot of criminal wrestlers. They said that the committee, the evidences presented by the victims and the video evidences that were destroyed by them, just to protect Britbushan Sharan Singh. They also said that the evidences that were given to support him and to save him, they did the same with him. And they also said that when the time was 4 weeks, which was extended to 2 weeks to submit the report, then why it took 3 months and why the report and the findings were not brought to everyone. So this is the latest thing and the other thing that you said about the village, in the last few years, the Bukhara village, it is in Rottak district, it is about 70-80 km away from here, it is 2 hours away, it is not that far. So in Rottak, the beginning of the training was in Bukhara village, after that she shifted to Rottak and she joined some other academy and she was there with her family. But where she started, she got a chance to go to her academy while the wrestlers were training. So the girls from the nursery class start coming there, and after that, the boys and girls stay there. And then when the junior is done, they go to the next level, they go to different gardens and different academies. So the purpose of going to the village and talking to the people there was that how the villagers are supporting the protest going on. So in their village, their house, their aunts, aunts, their cousins, their relatives are there, their uncles, so what happened to them was that we are all supporting them and they are very outraged. Because the wrestlers don't come from rich families, like the Dengal film, which was shown to Mahavir Fogart's life. But how much Mahavir Fogart is living in Haryana, because he trains his children from childhood, he cuts their budget and trains their children. So when they go to the national and international level, they are outraged. So this is a very serious thing. So every person who is training their children and their daughters, they know that they will go to a level that will reach the highest level. And Madhya Palwan, who has seen his students, whose students are now working at the level of DSP, who is a bank manager, who has played international, who has gone to the Olympics, so he said that after leaving from here, he starts from the court and then goes to the president, where he is outraged, mentally and sexually, and according to his work, whatever he wants to get, he is outraged at that level. So these things are also open to them. We will talk more about this, Satyam will come back to it. Sharda, I want to bring you in because this is not necessarily something that is limited to the sport of wrestling alone. What Satyam said is that at every level, the athlete is their source, since the academy stage, this thing starts. And then as you keep increasing in that structure, the difficulties in many ways also multiply. And now we are at a stage where at least for this cause, these wrestlers who are some of the best known, Bajrang is a world champion, Sakshi Malik is very well known, Vinesh Poghara is very well known. So they are using their relative position of power to voice a situation that is faced by hundreds and thousands of athletes, of course more so by women athletes, but also by young boys who are entering into the system across disciplines. Yes, you know Satyam's account of going to Sakshi's village and talking about what the wrestlers have told us about the evidence that is they are accusing the committee of tampering with the evidence. So you can see that this is literally the step that happens in case someone decides to protest. So the power equation in Indian sport across sports, particularly when there are women that are there, young girls is so badly skewed in favour of the coach, of the official, of the person wielding control over that child. And if any wrestler or any athlete, I mean we heard the cyclist story as well a few months ago and the response of the cycling federation was but there has been no such complaint for 20 years. So and you're saying what is that man doing for 20 years? I can't remember us winning cycling medals at the Olympics in the last 20 years or having an exceptional performance in cycling outside of the last clutch of Deborah Herald and athletes like that. So you're looking at a system where there is extreme exploitation. I can use the very harsh words I'm aware of what I'm saying. There is extreme exploitation to a degree that I don't think we can even fathom to understand how much it is of all these kids who come to the academies, they're dependent, their parents are happy to send them out to academies because they get fed, they get looked after supposedly and they think the kids are secure. And when you're hearing the country's top wrestlers, the most famous say three, four wrestlers, you'd say okay the other two wrestlers you'd be thinking about, you'd say Ravidaya and you'd say Sushil Kumar. And when you're looking at all these wrestlers and there's three of them sitting there and telling you this and you're saying goodness, look at what has happened to them. So can you imagine down the line what that is? What impact does it have on all these academies on all the parents who are fighting against their various relatives, neighbors, mohalla, whatever, into sending their kids there. What are those people going to be telling them now? What's the kind of message that's gone out to the families of children who want their athletes to take part, who want their children, whose families want them to take part in sport. They say no need, please study and become computer engineer and forget it, you don't have to go here. In your software code, you don't have to deal with these type of people. It's a simple, this looks like it's a nightmare, why will you get into this? So we don't even understand at this point that the consequences of this down the line say five years from now, how many athletes are going to drop out because of this. And as we know, as all of us know, there is so much talent in the country that our federations and our officials just are happy to toss aside one person and because someone else will come, that's the amount of talent that we have across the board. What have you been responding to from the police? Investigating officers and agencies, what are they saying? Because if I'm not wrong, if this is a poxso case, then an arrest should be the first step that should be taken. So 29th April, actually 28th, in Supreme Court, the Delhi police said that we are going to do FIR and then 29th, they did two FIRs. Obviously, it was a poxso case where an immediate arrest should be done. Today, the minor who is involved in the poxso case, the minor's statement has been done by the police. The Delhi police has said that they have received a statement from the police. A few days ago, they had received a statement from the rest of the girls, but the bill has not been submitted yet. They say that they have not been called once, that they should be reprimanded, that they should be asked a question. Nothing has happened yet with the Delhi police. And if the protests are going on, let's talk about the crackdown. The farmers who were living on Monday were a little bit shocked because Monday was a very big day for the farmers and the farmers. A very major call was given, in which all the farmers and the farmers from Uttar Pradesh, Haryana, Rajasthan, Punjab and all the farmers and the farmers who had come here. It was announced that they had been given an ultimatum for 15 days. On Monday, there was a jattah from Punjab that came. They were a little bit shocked. They overcame the barricades and they entered from there. After that, the Delhi police got the barricading done. They got the welding done the next day so that no one can enter from that side. There are two ways to enter. The one that was going on the protests or covering the protests. There are two ways. One way is from Kerala House and the other one is from Punjab. You can't even walk there. You can't even go by car. On the other hand, you can enter from Kerala House but your proper checking is going on there. You are being checked from the scanner. There is a limit on the protest side. The way to enter. Despite these limits and the best efforts of the Delhi police which we have been seeing for the past 2-3 years. Despite their best efforts despite Satyam's solidarity despite Satyam's solidarity in fact, you were saying that the wrestlers themselves have said that if more people come then we might be given orders to remove them because the number of people is limited that can assemble them. So, what we see in every protest when a major event happens as we saw in the farmers' protest was going on for a long time. So, the civil societies that they supported the labour organizations affiliated with the left which were the 10 central trade unions that were there which had NFIW, INTUC, AITUC. All these people who came there showed solidarity and support. Some individuals are like a lady who left her work with 2-3 suitcases and came here at the time of the farmers' protest they were here for 3-4 months sitting on the border when the farmers' protest was going on. There are people like this but the wrestlers who have pointed out their own community when P.T. Usha gave a statement that they are misbehaving with the country while sitting on the border. Sakshi Malik said when things were happening with your I.O.A you said it openly but when we were speaking why weren't you supporting us? Same thing happened with Saurav Kamuli's recent statement which Vinesh Pogat replied strongly when he was asked about what was going on there. So, this kind of statement was very disappointing from his own community and the other one is that the wrestlers who came in January last year weren't able to come because the wrestlers were being pressured the coaches of the federation were suspended the wrestlers from the federation if they came to support they were pushed to take them out. So, there are some people who are scared but the rest I would say that almost all the sections whether they are students or working class whether they are farmers or farmers and Sharda works for that network so, this kind of people have also supported this protest. 2-3 things related to what you said First, we will start with Leslie because Satyam brought up the IOA and Pt Usha the new head of that organization rightly Satyam was pointing out when the IOA has something or the government wants to do something the constitution, elections when it happens then very soon people will give their hands that India will be banned from the Olympic Games this is a political interference in our work but when it comes to their work to sort out they get statements from them they get proper support and as it goes the issues that have been done by colleagues in the media are not there for athletes to register these complaints so when a person like Pt Usha says they should have come to me what do you make of that statement Leslie? Pt Usha can't blame the athletes for not coming to them because their initial demand was a probe into this and they were satisfied by that when the committee was formed they were happy with that things have been formed and they will do the investigation and bring out the report they will come out again on the streets because that committee is allegedly not done their job well they are apparently given a clean sheet to British Ocean and so the wrestlers again got agitated they wanted justice and they came out on the street and are fighting for it and nobody should be blaming them for fighting for what is their right it is justice they are fighting for so Pt Usha is part of that sporting system where when you look at it when they say the world body will ban as the political influence is there Indian sport is run by politicians IOA the people who sit at the helm of the IOA they are nominated by political clout, political push and the federations are run by politicians right from the federations that are there in the Olympic fold to a federation like the cricket body the board likes the cricket body every single sporting entity in the country is run by politicians and for them it is a lucrative playground there are many factors into it here we need to get into why and how politicians come in and run these roles but I just from from IOA IOA stands which is basically closing the ranks because it is a power play it is the power dynamic that are there so they are trying to appease or keep each other's face so that synergy or that balance is maintained and people can sit in their chairs it is as simple as that they don't want to upset the apple god they want to remain there Pt Usha is part of that system and yeah like Satyam pointed out she has Suda Pan's voice protest and she is one of the persons who has protested in fact as the sidelines of the Olympic fold so let's not get into all these aspects because she shouldn't she should understand who she should be standing up for as the president of the IOA and when the athletes, athletes of the country are out on the streets and trying to ask her and ask the entire sporting establishment they ask the sporting establishment the sporting establishment failed them that's when they are asking support from and the entire country has come out in support of that and talking about sporting establishment we are talking about the IOA and the larger umbrella body in the country right but I want to get into the grassroots side of it and what the athletes are facing now what the wrestlers are facing now once this investigation started once the committee was formed so I am part of 3 or 4 whatsapp group from south india and kerala and most I mean through this last 4 months the groups have been silent about this otherwise they are they spoke about multiple issues they got sports but when this issue has come out none of them are debating it or talking about it or expressing solidarity even barring a couple of couple of them who are their own reasons why they are out there because some of them are connected to their students or part of the transition so recently news came out in kerala media that kerala wrestlers were part of the national camp women wrestlers they were asked to give in writing saying that just to confirm because initially when the allegations were made when these wrestlers when the investigation started came out and spoke they also mentioned that kerala wrestlers in the camp had also faced harassment so after that the wrestling federation kerala wrestling association asked these wrestlers who were involved 6 of them and plus a coach to give in writing saying that no harassment has happened and we were completely taken care of at the camps etc the wrestlers were not willing to do what they were asked but they were unwilling to give an undertaking either but apparently in the subsequent months in the last 2-3 months immense pressure is on them to give that writing to give that undertaking and they have still refused it and apparently action might be taken against them citing various other reasons two bands have come against the coaches student and the bands are cited because they didn't take part in advancing students it's not cited because they didn't write the letter but they are being targeted now so that's how the system works so why this letter was because there were garnering voices in support of bridge buchen when the investigation was happening so we had seen a social media video where two young girls wrestlers were parenting almost parenting it was very evident from the way they were talking about how bridge buchen how they have never faced harassment and they have been taken care of by the vacation so similarly all the state units possibly have put pressure on the wrestlers to come voicing their support against them so the pressure we are talking about is at various levels and I mean the lower level at least have more to move they don't have job security they are just trying to get there like you said earlier they want to make a career out of it and they are afraid that that would be jeopardized if they voiced something if they come out something so fear is pretty real and so we have to comment that these athletes who are at the elite level they have come out and spoken and they are fighting for the entire punch and it's a larger cost it's a cost that people like PT Usha should be supporting because it's for the future of Indian sport and they are in turn criticizing it as unfortunate and that more or less sums up the state of how sport is run in the country not just I think people like PT Usha but people at the very highest level of this government should be supporting this cost because slogan airing we have talked a lot about the highest level of leadership in this country how we should take care of our daughters how we should teach our daughters how we should teach our daughters women's empowerment is often how much this is a lip service how much for optics that is an example of this wrestler's protest which everyone is watching in that sense on the ground political perspective because what Leslie was talking about was not too long ago when among the wrestlers who give support to BJP to Modi's leadership their tweets they used to retweet so I think from this hope to the government you used to listen to us you used to call us when we used to bring medals now we need some help in the sense we are not asking for anything just that due process we followed so in that sense are you seeing a political shift in some ways of course the farmers have already understood of protesting who have now come to support trade unions and labour organizations already understand these things but among this elite wrestler community a lot of whom because too much of their life and livelihood is dependent, they are dependent on the Sarkar for it they tend to also toe the line a lot so in that sense are you seeing a shift so obviously as you saw the last time the protests that took place they didn't want any political parties to get involved not even there not even there and from the stage there were multiple political leaders and they had told to go from the stage that whatever happens is our fight don't participate in this we will fight our own fight and even before that when Vinayesh came we didn't want to do politics and Vinayesh said when I met PM I pointed out he said I didn't speak about sexual harassment but I told him about tortures that those who are innocent are not doing right so he took his name in front of PM and when the last time people went you will remember that Babita Fogart was the one who came that day and he made this a mediator between the government and the wrestlers the same day they went to Anurag Thakur's house and he spoke to Anurag Thakur he spoke to them for 12 hours but the wrestlers said they didn't even talk for 12 minutes they would come and go they would definitely stay at his house but they didn't even talk for 12 minutes so when they came they included everyone because they went to the government like Leslie was saying the federation they went to they had made a committee the people of their community so when they didn't get anything they were disappointed and they came to protest and then they had to include everyone whoever they wanted to call they were calling because they weren't supported last time neither the government nor the federation nor the community supported them so when they came you will remember there were 100 episodes which was made a big event I was reading somewhere today that the workers the government employees have been notified that you didn't attend Manikibath and they were told to come this is in Uttar Pradesh so this happened this is today's news so at the same time Manikibath had 30 episodes and the day it was Manikibath on Saturday night I was talking to Sakshi and Bajrang so I told him I didn't talk to the PM I talked to any government person because there are personal connections that day also some federation people came but they said that you should compromise so he said that there won't be any compromise after 15 episodes which will happen in front of the country and in front of the media I will not compromise he also said that last time we were trapped in politics more than once all the press conferences last time we were held in politics we were given lollipop we were given the first half so when it was Manikibath Sakshi also said that PM Modi is listening to everyone we are hearing 100 episodes we are not going to tell you we are sitting 2-3 km away so from the government there was a lot of disappointment Vinesh Kogat also said that PM left us alone so they were supporters and this is absolutely right and it is absolutely possible that if the revolution gets jailed then they will go in the same field and they will continue to support and Bajrang just shared an Insta story in which it was written that I support Bajrang Dal so there was a lot of outrage that see they were told that there is always one thing but I think that they got away from there their personal ideology there is no such protest about that so their they are not happy with the government and disappointed because it is a big thing there is a 100 meter house where they are protesting so on that side they are not supporting anyone they have been talking a lot about this they have been talking a lot about this that two women are sitting at the top they are not saying anything about us so I think in this there is no reading that is required to be done between the lines because the whole message is clear that there is no such thing in their minds so how are we going to talk about it Sharda sorry please feel free to jump in at any point if you have questions for Satyam just to add to what Satyam was saying about solidarity and for many many sources a friend of mine went over to the protest site I think this was just either the Saturday before the the cops and the farmers came or maybe the Friday and the cops when they would basically tell them it is very difficult the policemen said we know what we are doing is wrong we understand what these girls are saying there was a policeman who had tears in his eyes and he said this he said I feel terrible but we have got orders that a lot of people are going to come so we cannot be messing around with the orders that we have got whatever we feel personally in this situation we feel terrible so there is also a sense on the ground of the injustice that is being perpetuated in this event and for me Vinesh said is the most sort of emotional and most moving statement in which he said that man is walking free and we have been barricaded here like we are the ones that have to be kept inside we are moving Azad and I think we are very well pointed out by Satyam that whatever their political ideologies are they may well go back to it but the point is that as athletes they are to us special people as followers of sport as lovers of sport when something like this happens to athletes we think of them as athletes first before people with their political identity as such and you have to fight for these things so like they are fighting for the fact that they want this guy to be removed that's why everyone else is behind them I suppose it's that the sense of the wrong that is there and just to add to what Leslie said I think we should also point out that you've got the wrestling federation you've got the Indian Olympic Association and the sports ministry and they are all singing one tune and they don't have to the point is in the past there has always been clashes because there would be someone from the other side some other political party but now it's just become this one monotone kind of saffronized version of how sport is to be run so there is wrestling federation IOS sports ministry is the same thing and Pidusha now she found a barrister whatever it was and she turned up and she said something it's quite interesting to see athletes commission which had no voice for the last 3 months they have sent a letter today there was a story today they sent a letter and said we have to speak for the athletes so Achanta Sharad Kamal who is the vice president who has not said anything the vice president or the vice chairman of that group has said this so I think there is a certain sense of athletes a bunch of them feeling terrible that they are not able to speak out I mean I have spoken to 2 or 3 people on that athletes commission and they say it's horrible that we are not able to we did not stand up for these people and I was talking to one of them I said I am afraid that there is actually danger to their lives in that sense listen we all get killed one day it was a he and he said if you die in a cause like this nobody will ever forget you it's a terrifying thought but the guy said it you know it's such a strange situation I don't think all of us sports journalists I don't think we can imagine I mean I don't think 6 months ago we would not have imagined this that athletes would be sitting on the road and seeing this this committee would be set up with Mericom in charge of it and because I have interviewed her we do the cover piece and Leslie and I used to work at Sports Illustrated where she has talked about the kind of challenges that she faced herself through the early part of her career the kind of harassment that she has had to go through so I don't think empathy, understanding any of these things are lacking it is just simply a case of a body line essentially it belongs to the same organization and it is refreshing in that sense to see these athletes calling out and telling people in power that we understand that you are saving your guys it's clear you can eat lollipops but we can't eat everything I just one more thing what Leslie said about the junior wrestlers in Kerala is frightening just like that I can talk about death in this dramatic manner but it's scary can you imagine what's happening all across the country with your junior wrestlers yeah just to on the issue of Mericom also based on whatever your ideology might be I think a lot of these protests and Satyam was also pointing this out they are about governance and governance related issues things that you are supposed to do and that it is your job to do it Mericom put out an appeal as well after violence broke out in Manipur so these are all governance issues the violence in Manipur could have been prevented if the government and again it's a BJP government in the state it's a BJP government in the center if there was better communication coordination and someone had said that I mean if observers could see that the policies of the government this war on drugs etc of the Biren government is going to lead to the singling out and vilification of one community and then violence will follow so these are governance issues so Mericom is someone who should really be at the forefront of some of these agitations it's unfortunate that as a member of parliament and as someone who is known around this country you know not just multiple Olympic medalist world champion film has been made on her I mean unfortunately disappointing just as Satyam Tendurkar has been disappointing as a member of parliament and like Satyam was saying this is not about talking about how to fix the country there are maybe people who are more educated informed on those things but you understand or probably like no other people on the planet so when you don't even work towards or on issues of your own community fraternity however whatever language you want to use for it but constituency I think would be best because you are representing those people then I don't know what is left to say but okay I think we are about 40 minutes into this conversation let me I think we should wind up probably so let's see we will start with you anything to add to this conversation maybe we can talk a bit on the cups as well because for me again while we were at Fort Salah stated we did some kind of an investigation spent some time on the story this is just after the 2010 Commonwealth Games it's the first time women's wrestling I think if I'm wrong Leslie can correct me women's wrestling was part of the program for the first time in that Commonwealth Games and of course ETA Bobita grabbed the headlines so after that we went to some of these areas mostly in Haryana of course where the cups are the legal de facto legal body they decide how things go in terms as well as in terms of quite a basic or immediate dispensation of justice and at that time the atmosphere was not one where girls were encouraged to take up sport because of precisely these reasons over these 12-13 years that attitude has changed dramatically as Satyam was saying some women now girls who are young school girls who are into Akhadas to train so in just a 10 years span the mindset of these cups has changed because of the kind of effort and the kind of victories that people like Vinayesh, people like Satyam people like ETA Bobita so that the long list have managed to achieve so if you can make a point on this front in social dynamics and then let's be in jump in as well yeah so when I was in Haryana people said in the Olympics there are two medals in Kushti and both are from Haryana so these are the things and the training people were telling me to train one wrestler to train one elephant to train one elephant and to train one elephant so if someone has 4kg of milk they will sell so that they can send 2kg more milk to their kids and the training has quite a difference obviously Vinayesh said that if we're wasting one day means we're going four days later and our competitions are coming our training is actually important you are not able to train from your time, then later if you go to competitions for it, then it is possible that you may not be able to win, it is possible that you may not be able to move forward. So he said that if our career can be finished and this person can move away and something can be improved for the girls who are coming, then I can definitely finish my career. Many people, and the last 10 years when I was coming back from Haryana, I was also thinking that when we read about Haryana, there was an image that sex ratio is the worst and there is no good environment for women. I don't know if it is true or not, but looking at it, I think that the image of Haryana as a state girl has improved a lot. We see the name of Vittu Malik, Minesh, Sakshi Malik, and many other women are getting married at age 11-12. I would like to add one last thing about the support of the community. The support of the community is that a girl from Bukhara village won the medal two years ago. She won the medal in junior year, I think she won in under 16. So when she won the medal, she found out that she was not as strong economically as her father. When she came back from Haryana, she saw that her shoes were broken. So her 24th dream was that she won the medal four or five times and she decided that she didn't tell anyone. They collected 25 lakh rupees and donated it to the girl's family. After that, her training is going on and she has been playing at a different level for two years now. So the community is supporting this protest a lot. In that sense, often we use cliches like sport is meant to bring people together and sport is a vehicle for social change. But sometimes in cases like this, it isn't just a cliché. It's never been a cliché. This is something that we have always stood up for. It's just that the players themselves or the people involved should understand the larger indication of sport, which is coming out through this protest that what sport can do. And of course, looking back into what sport has done for Haryana like Sathil was mentioning. The sweeping changes that have happened in the outlook towards women in general, women playing sport, women, that means women going out and working, earning their living, playing sport, travelling abroad. So all these aspects, everything covered. So it's a breaking of the glass ceiling at an unimaginable proportion that way. And a similar breaking of barriers or what do you call that? Structural issues is happening right now at Jantamangra. I mean, it's a larger thing. So these wrestlers what they are doing is there. I mean, I know Bajran has won an Olympic grounds medal. He was world number one. He has been a multiple world champion. He has been a world champion medalist. Vinay has been a world champion medalist. Takshi has been an Olympic medalist. But I don't care about their Olympic legacy. This is what their legacy is. They're going to shape how Indian sport will progress into the future. And I sincerely believe and hope that sport has that hope is what we as journalists and post journalists have also foolish enough to live by, right? So I sincerely hope that this will lead to that kind of a change because the lesson will be realised by those in power. That you can't just get away with systemic abuse and issues, power abuse, systemic abuse and issues within the system without ironing them out. You can't just forever continue the show. Right. At the same time, jeopardising this movement is happening at various levels. You have mentioned money force. The same, I mean, singling out one community. The same thing is happening here. Singling out Ariana. It is the Ariana power play for someone else to come into power. Singling out Jack. Now they will get into Jack's community. Now they will get into farmers. They will go at multiple levels to try and jeopardise the movement or exercise it. Let's not forget that who started the politicising in this entire show. I mean, it was regional politics right from the start. So this has come to that because Indian sport is run with a larger political umbrella which actually runs the show. And whether this will change in fact, I mean, despite all the hope, I don't believe that will change. That change will happen very fast. But at least I do understand that at least and their right could be taken in a much more serious manner now. And I'm getting, I mean, one more thing. I'm just jumping now. As far as Mary Kom is concerned, it's a pity that she doesn't realise that her legacy will be questioned by future generations. The way she has carried herself through this episode. When she was named in the committee, everybody I spoke to expressed a lot of hope. Everybody who has not been hooked into the system and into how Indian sport runs the common land I'm talking about. They all believe that something good will happen. It will be a fair outcome how the committee will be run. I didn't have that kind of a confidence in her. The way she bears things are, things are, where she has carried about. From the time we interviewed her and her at Portugal Stadium, which was good nine years back to now, things have changed. And things have changed. And that's indicative of how Indian sport is. Hopefully this protest will set a precedent for that and also the results will get the justice and will get what they're fighting for. I imagine they have put their carriers at stake and it's to remove one person. But this one person is actually indicative of the larger evil that runs Indian sport. Yeah, and the point of understanding the point of the election, the job doesn't end, it begins there. Sharda, last bit from you before we close with Satyam on what lies ahead over the next few days and maybe I'll ask Satyam whether... I'll just go first then Satyam who is on the ground up. So Leslie summarizes this perfectly even about speaking about optimism about how this will go. I think politicizing, bringing these farmers unions and bringing the cops and bringing everyone else into it, you are then dealing with a fast, politically smarter and an astute bunch of people to show you direction which is why you're hearing from these athletes that we want our cases to be heard by a magistrate, we want the cops to take us there. So they are being advised by people who know how to handle these kinds of things. It's not a question of success or failure but at least they're able to keep pushing, make sure that they stay in the news, make sure that the news cycle they don't get dropped off and just to be optimistic again, the progress I keep saying, I saw this somewhere and I'm completely inspired by it. Progress is never like this. Progress, improvement, change. It's usually that's how it goes but eventually it ends up from there to there but it's up and down, up and down, zigzag. So you're just hoping that that's what it will be. I think the fact that they've got these far more politically more astute and aware people into it that they'll be advised better as to how to go about this and they'll keep pushing whatever it is. There was a very, very dramatic things that was said to my friend at that carpet that they've gone there, that this goes all the way to the top and until the top doesn't fall, we're not moving. So you say, okay, fine. But full marks and honestly hats off to the fact that these women are able to take the Prime Minister's name and say, talk to us and do it without fear of, maybe there is, I don't see fear. It's gone to be fear. I don't know. I just see fatigue, I see disappointment, I see tiredness but I don't seem to see fear. They don't look afraid. That's what I find. I'm just astonished. They're not looking afraid. They're exhausted but they don't look like that. Because they are elite athletes and I don't think we know how elite athletes' minds and brains work when they're pushed against the wall like you. Sorry, Satyam. We are all just hyperventilating. Yeah, Satyam. So yeah, I mean, apart from the fact that they've messed with the wrong group of people, definitely. And I think maybe stopping short of saying that one solution, revolution, Sharda was saying that. So between the two sort of extremes, in this case, how do you see this agitation proceeding? Will it stop at Dushan Shahan Singh or do you think that with more political awareness, with somewhat political participation, political awakening, whatever you want to call it, that there will be more cogent demands for like Leslie was pointing out a system that actually works for the athletes where no one has to do this again. Yeah. So this time, the whole focus is on the arrest of the revolution and the people who have to be taken out. But the term of the revolution, I think it's only one and a half months left. So as WFI president, once he leaves someone, it's going to take over. So when last time they were protesting, there were a bunch of demands that were not given properly physically. They were given a lot of help. And the purchase of the federation is not so supportive, it's biased. All these things are there. Except for the sectional harassment with the athletes. So I think they will definitely get ahead. Because if they sit once, they will not be able to remove WFI president. But there are other things that the system is not good. Because the approaches associated with the revolution are also against the sexual harassment. Not only on the revolution, on every level, these things are done on international athletes, but also with national and state level and district level athletes. The way they are going forward is that for the last 21 months, they have achieved their ultimate goal. For the last 21 months, from 11th to 18th, they are in every city. And on a small level, in Haryana, there are many cities. Pani Pat, Karnal, in Uttar Pradesh, Muzakhar Nagar, and Biznore, protests are taking place in Rajasthan, in Punjab. On a small level, protests are going on. On the 21st of May, they are going to see that they are going to come here. And how they are going to move forward. The police are going to show that they are going to see this a lot. And the media should not get out of the news cycle of the pressure. They are trying a lot to get out of the news cycle. They do press conferences every day. They do two press conferences a day. And on social media, they are becoming real. They are making different songs today. They are getting real suggestions on Instagram. They are trying a lot to get out of the news cycle. So this is the moment. I would like to add something to what Satyam said about bridge bulletin removal. End of term as president. He was ending the term as president but he was retaining voting rights. The pooling of period because he was president for two years and then he has to pull off and then he can potentially come back again. So what is happening in as Siddhartha and Shaza would know in sports administration in the country our federation. If he remains there for more than four years, that means he has established his next within all the association. So when election happens, there will be another president for sure. But it would most probably be the bridge bulletin plan. So bridge bulletin plan, if they are not if they go and punish, wrestling federation will still potentially be under bridge bulletin. So that's a reality. That's the reality of what Indian sport is run. So the fight that's why the fight, that's why wrestlers came out again when they realized that the committee that was formed as allegedly given a clean sheet to bridge bulletin and then the federation announced an election which was subsequently nullified and a new committee is formed to run the election. That election the wrestlers were afraid of because the jiu-jitsu would have had full control over that election and he would have retained some kind of power over how the sport is run in the country. So the game is on in various various levels and so their fight wrestlers realized that their fight is to not just counter moves on the match but to counter all those political rankings that happen in and around the match too. And it's an individual sport but the sport is reached in politics right through partiality politics reprisis of the election issues, all these things. So they know if at all any sports person would have come out to take this fight it would have been a replica they understand this better and they know how to not walk away from a fight and it's very evident now. So hopefully I think I think sport gives you all of those things that you guys have mentioned over the course of this last one hour or so which has been for me very informative thank you very much for all of your time but hopefully like you guys were saying all athletes who are empowered by the sport that they play will become like let's be saying sorry people who are willing to take up the issues that matter to them like all the rest of us should as well. We will of course continue our coverage of the rest of us on the ground, follow him read his reports, they are out regularly he's doing videos as well putting out stuff on Instagram as well so follow Satyam for regular updates now maybe we'll do a larger conversation on other aspects related to wrestling somewhere down the road where we can talk about the other dynamics that play like some of the other ways in which essentially they are branded and treated as early as they end up entering the system but for now we leave it here, do like, follow share, subscribe and all of that so that you know not just our medium but also the motive of the rest of us to keep this in the new cycle let's perpetuate it in some little way thank you all for joining us we've been watching the news click, goodbye