 Luke from Puppet Labs and Sascha, thank you very much. Cloudbees, now guys, we're going to just quickly go through, because I'm sorry we had to break the panel up because we had a little bit of a shorter desk here, but quickly tell about your company, what you guys do, why you're here at VMware, and what's your position here in the whole VMware ecosystem, we'll start with Luke. So Puppet helps you manage large numbers of computers and we're here because VMware helps you make more and more computers, and every time you go from 500 physical machines to 10,000 or 3,000 virtual machines, Puppet can help you reduce the overhead of each additional virtual machine. We've got customers who are moving, doing that, 5,000 physical to 25,000, 30,000 virtual, and we help them do that, we help them manage all those machines. Saka? Yeah, Sascha, so we're a Java platform as a service, so you can see past as being to developers what virtualization is to IT operations, and so we help Java developers deploy their application into production, and obviously VMware is important for us, because enterprises today are deploying on VMware, and so we want to help. Are you a friend of me, or a friend? Exactly. Both, a little bit of both, because you kind of offer a little bit more with your product, we'll get into that, okay, but I want to talk to Luke, because Luke is very well known in the open source community, we've been following Puppet, Chef, that whole nine yards at Silicon Angle, although we're really not publishing a lot, because it's kind of an emerging area the past couple of years, but Puppet has emerged as, like Chef, is a really good framework for a hot area right now that is really rapidly accelerating, and that is the configuration and automation, and as developers have to work more with hardware, they're not necessarily hardware guys, right, so you have a whole new emerging area of ease of use from the programming standpoint, there's a huge rush to fill the system software up, so tell us about Puppet, and Puppet Labs in particular, and what your customers are working with you on, and the opportunities and challenges that you're solving out there. So, we're very much solving a problem that's been around for a long time, when I was, this had been 15 years ago, we still had management problems back then, it was difficult to get the 100 machines I was maintaining to do what I wanted to do, and that difficulty led me to where we are now, where I've produced this system to help people do that. It's true that the scale we have today, the speed that people are moving today, very few people had 30,000 servers five years ago or 10 years ago, and now it's almost common. No one could install 1,000 machines a week five years ago, and these days almost every service you build needs to be up 24 by seven, remember when you could turn off servers on the weekend, remember maintenance windows that lasted the whole weekend, those are all gone, so now you're in a world where you've got bigger problems that need to be solved faster with no downtime, which means that you have to have tools to help you solve it, you have to have great software. Puppet was already in a great position when this transition started happening, we've been around for six years, most people think that we kind of happened with the cloud but we were really well positioned when the cloud showed up, and so you look at the vast majority of the really big web startups out there, and a lot of the really big traditional infrastructure, banks, government, they're also all using Puppet, so you have this very wide adoption of people who are telling Puppet how they want their infrastructure to look, and then letting Puppet make sure that it happens, they no longer are connecting to their direct computers anymore, and doing work, they're talking to Puppet, and Puppet's making sure the actual infrastructure work happens for them. Yeah, for the folks out there who are just watching, Amarawa Dalla was on from Cloud Air, I'll see there, they're taking open source and commercializing it, but the way I like to describe kind of what's going on in your world is what Amazon did for the cloud was really amazing, and then RightScale came around and make it really easy to do stuff, so I see this whole opportunity where there needs to be some simplification around provisioning and management, and there's so much white space, you can drive a truck through it. I mean, dealing with hardware, port configurations, to all kinds of stuff, so how much of a white space is it, you guys are actually closing that gap, what are the key challenges for that space? I think that there's orders of magnitude work left to do more than we've already done, we've done almost nothing. The infrastructure and management in general, I mean, as Sasha's company is showing, is still fantastically difficult, it's embarrassingly difficult, and so I think there's a huge amount of work to do on usability, on accessibility, on allowing people to focus on the parts of their infrastructure that matter, the services, the SLAs, and skip things like hardware, skip things like application installation and application management, not by solving them all for them automatically, but by building fundamental technology that allows them to build a stack where the stack solves the problem, and you don't have to focus on, you're going to have your applications, people really focus on the application, and your operations people don't deploy applications, they don't manage applications, they build and maintain the infrastructure that allows application management, that allows application management. They're hardening the infrastructure. Exactly. And not having all these applications required to deal with changing out of switch and ports, all the stuff that goes on. Exactly, and also the network. And you have to move to an integrated world where your network management knows how to talk to your systems management, knows how to talk to your database management, they have to be one story, if those are all three separate domains, and they never work together, and you can't have true automation. It's kind of like what RightScale does for Amazon, right? It just keeps the cloud out there, you're a bulk of resource, I'll use it. So Satya, talk about your company, and because platform as a service is the hottest thing right now, I mean, you know, SaaS has been around for a while, you know, platform as a service, infrastructure as a service, but we're hearing pass from Cloud Foundry as announcing some stuff. What's your view, what's happened in the past three years with pass? What we see is that people love SaaS because it's much simpler to use and so on. On the other hand of the spectrum, they have yes, but it's complex to use, that's why you have solutions like Puppet to solve that. And in between, when you want to create your customized solution, you need a platform as a service. And I think that's what people started to realize is that there was a way to get much bigger productivity for developers by using a pass. What are the biggest challenges that you're solving right now that you're proud of? So I think what we decided to do with CloudVis is to go for depth and really satisfy the need of the Java developers and not just any developer. And so we think that we have a unique platform when it comes to covering the entire application lifecycle. We don't do just runtime, we do development and runtime. So you can host your code at CloudVis, you can build it, you can test it, and then you can dynamically push it to production, what we call the continuous deployment. That's unique. And then just growing like crazy around open source and this challenges there with management. Puppet Labs, I think you guys, as the word on the street is, is that you guys made a good choice versus Chef, which a lot of people do use. Chef, Chef wanted to make a sass out of it. And people don't want to put their configuration information in the Cloud. Are you seeing that? I mean, are you seeing that trend? I think that will absolutely happen soon. I think in three to five years, that will be a good business. But today, the amount of infrastructure that's on premise today, the amount of infrastructure that's out there in the market right now, that's the management problem people have. And trying to solve the management problem people are going to have in the future, we didn't think that was a great idea. And obviously, part of it is we started long enough ago that none of this was even a question five years ago. But we expect to have that as a business, but we think that's going to be a standalone business unit. And in the end, the biggest market will always be on premise. In the same way that 10 years ago, everyone said, because of the hosting companies like LoudCloud, oh, you'll no longer own hardware at all. Well, that's not what happened, right? LoudCloud went out of business. They sold their hosting infrastructure to EDS and morphed into a salt permation. By the way, I'm going to have the co-founder of LoudCloud on theCUBE tomorrow, visa, VC at Rembrandt. Yeah, but that's a good point. I mean, and I wrote a post this morning. Insik, great guy. So this morning, I wrote a post that basically said, will VMware plans, meaning Cloud plans, Cripple OpenStack, which has gotten great reviews on its messaging. Everyone's flocking to OpenStack that's like the burning bush of Cloud. And it's a great message. It's open source, we can do it together. The question I've kind of put out there was, is it fast enough? Are they delivering? And can they deliver? And the question of enterprise ready, these are things that I'm hearing, not solving the future. Right, this is the big thing is, it's not useful to talk in the future tense. It's not useful to talk about what you're going to do someday. It's really only useful to talk about what you can do right now, what you're doing today. Because people don't really have problems in the future. People in general have problems right now. And they pay to solve problems they experience right now. So telling me that I will absolutely be able to deploy OpenStack in a year, it's not that helpful. And we're big boosters of OpenStack, essentially all the production implementations of OpenStack are built by Puppet. Rackspace is using Puppet heavily throughout their infrastructure. So it's not that we're down on OpenStack, but we find it very hard to talk about OpenStack because we can't point to a lot of customers that are using it. Our customers call us and say, we want a private cloud solution. What should we use? There aren't a lot out there that you can use right now, but you can cobble something together pretty quickly with some basic automation tools and VMware or any of the virtualization tools. And we have some customers who have essentially taken Puppet, VMware, and a couple other tools and built what looks a lot like a private cloud solution. Well, I mean, I could spend an hour with you guys. It's such a fun, for me, a fun topic. People might not think it's cool, but I love it. It's something that's really important. So final question before we exit out here is, the biggest problems you see out there that are happening today, okay? Not necessarily that you're solving, but that are in relevant, the space that we're in, market that we're in, and two, opportunities for other startups. Entrepreneurs that are out there really working hard, they're prototyping. It's not an area that you can just throw something together. You've got to really think through some hard problems and get something out there. Advice for those guys. So current problems you're seeing in the marketplace and advice for startups out there. Guys in the garage, guys contemplating from both of you guys. So I think one of the biggest unknowns is really the timing, how ready the market is for the public cloud, typically. That's something that is hard to define. Advice for startups. Just do it. Yeah, just do it. Well, one advice is it's much easier today than it was before to create a startup just because you can be a virtual company. You can do everything in the cloud. So now is a great time to start a company. Luke, final word. I think the biggest problem that I'm facing is essentially surfing the hype wave to profitability. You have to maintain enough hype that people are excited and passionate, but you have to be towards the mainstream enough that you can actually build a profitable company. Because if you don't build a profitable company, then at some point it doesn't succeed. And my advice for startups, for people who are building companies today, the only correlation to success is perseverance. The only people who made it are the ones who didn't give up. And there's always a reason to give up. And you can't do that if you're trying to succeed. Okay, Luke, great words on end the note here. Startup panel, always love to talk about it. Those guys are in the trenches persevering, delivering value, bootstrapping. You see the capital effectively. Hopefully we'll go public or get bought in this market. It's probably going to happen. And we're going to hear from the blogger panel coming up next. We'll be right back to hear from the bloggers who are also out working some of the companies. But we're going to talk about what you guys were saying. So we'll be right back. Thanks guys for coming inside the Cube. Sasha, thank you guys. Thank you. Luke, good job. Thank you.