 Welcome to the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bart van der Zee and today is an episode. I've been really excited about for a Very long time. I'm joined by Jay and Nick Jones from Noble and Cooley. Welcome to the show gentlemen. Thank you very much Thanks for having us on. Yeah. I mean, I'm telling you this is the most requested episode. I would say at least two times a month for the last year and a half someone has said, hey, have you thought about doing Noble and Cooley and And to answer everyone's question. Yes, I had thought about it and these are just very busy guys Who are just constantly making drums and I was fortunate enough to meet Nick at the last Chicago show and He kind of gave me a little he gave me a little taste of yeah, we'd love to do it and then Yeah, I know I feel like I've misled you for like a year. You've been you've been tracking us down to make this happen And that's okay. It's okay. I I always thought I was like, man I hope I'm not being a pest but when I I just you know, I don't give up I think that's the the key and and we're here and it's gonna be it's gonna be awesome. So Yeah Well, let's give the people what they want. Why don't we start off with just talking about your family's company, which is Just one of the oldest drum companies in the country if I'm not mistaken I don't want to misspeak and say something wrong, but Jay Why don't you just lay it on us? Tell us about the history of noble and Cooley All right. Well, I think it's fairly safe to say we are the oldest current active drum company in the country The way it all got started was back in 1853 Mr. Noble made some toy drums for his friends and family for Christmas and thought he had a good idea and joined his buddy Mr. Cooley who happens to be my great great great grandfather and they incorporated the business in January 1854 it was founded as a toy company But we have made toys every year of our existence since then The first year they were together they made 631 drums Shortly after the Civil War they had a factory 18 employees and they made over 80,000 drums in 1873 along with along with Croquet sets cigar lighters toothpicks a bunch of other little wooden items So when you say 80 in use in the 1870s 80,000 drums Are you talking about real drums or toy drums? It was a combination. It was a combination toy toys and military marching drums We we were one of the Manufacturers that was making the contract snare drums for the Civil War For the Union regiments that is so cool. So That's so cool to me because it happened in World War two. It's happened other times But by contract I mean you the government literally came and said we need drums. That's right They gave a contract out for 16 inches in diameter 12 inches deep so many Let their ears on it and as long as we met those specs they would buy them from us Wow, that had to be great for business. I mean, I'm sure they you don't have any, you know, he can't he didn't That's that's very long ago to have like first-hand knowledge of yeah the business But obviously that is probably what kept the business going if if it went the other way and You didn't get a contract. Maybe Noble and Cooley wouldn't be here today. Well, I don't know the toys were probably still the predominant product. Okay. Okay Interesting. Wow. Yeah, that's fascinating. So Do you know any stories of was it hard to keep up with production making that many drums? Was it like how they say with Ludwig, they were doing 24-hour shifts once Ringo, you know happened to make that many drums They had to be the cranking them out, right? Right, but it was it was toy product. It was not a lot of precision involved It was you know crank them out just add more people to the mix Got it. Wow Okay, so Now and we should probably say that you guys have always been located in Massachusetts, correct? Correct. We've always been located in Grandville, Massachusetts. The original factory was a quarter mile from its current location The original factory burned down in January of 1889 But between 1854 and 1889 another drum company toy company was operating in Grandville and after the fire with the insurance money we purchased their factory and property and Built the three main buildings that we're still using today on that site Gotcha Do you know of any I mean I feel like it's so long ago like I said, but was there any They they probably had to do a little bit of learning to go from making a toy drum to actually making a Rope tension drum that was going to be used, you know in battle I guess there might have been like a little bit of the learning curve there, right? Maybe they would I'm sure there was a curve But it wasn't a very big one because the toys at that time were Steam-bent wooden shells with skin heads. So all they had to do was scale it up to a larger diameter a little thicker wood heavier oak Hoops, it was just you know more of the same just a little larger. Yeah now I'm a great friend of the show Mark Robertson who I believe you guys know and has done some work with you he He has turned me on to more of like looking into and appreciating the rope tension drums Do you come across a lot of these drums from that Civil War era? Today that are still around I mean and collectible they they have to be very really valuable Right. We don't see a lot of them. We were very fortunate. We were able to purchase one From an estate that was being broken up then the drum was actually Actually served in the Civil War and it was picked up off the Gettysburg battlefield So we have that in a glass case here Back then we also made a drum for President Lincoln's campaign for presidency We had sent to Illinois and got a fence braille that he had split years before and when it came in we machined it into Strips to make the wood hoops for the drum It was then painted with a likeness of Lincoln on it strung with sterling silver hooks and silk cord And my great-great-great grandfather's diary entry in August of 1863 said finish the Lincoln drum today the finest thing ever made That's so cool Wow, so it goes without saying that your great-great-great Great-grandfather was a drummer. Obviously. Is that fair to say? I don't know. That's a great question There's there's no record or indication of that one would assume somebody had to have been at some point But yeah, there's no evidence of that Unfortunately because of the company fire we lost all the company records We're lost in the fire, but what we do have are the family diaries that were that kept Kept a one diary of all the daily events and my grandmother took the time to go through and transpose All the business entries from the family entries So we have a concentrated history of the major events in the company prior to 1889 Gotcha. Okay. Now, um Would mr. Noble so his family and and I don't want to move too far ahead But I'm assuming just going through the years the noble side of things Like maybe they just got bought out or a lot or the family. I mean, this is That's 100 plus years ago. That just had to have maybe maybe they just stopped being involved or how did that separation happen They stayed involved right up until about 1921 when they didn't have any heirs left and They decided to sell out to the Coolies at that point in time and we got it You know, obviously kept the same name moving forward Okay, got it. Okay, so, um Oh man anything else while we're in that civil war era. That's really cool. Because that's just such a neat, um I mean, there was other competition. There was I would I don't want to call them competition because I guess It was a government contract. So you're not really competing for work But there were other manufacturers of drums at that point in time. Do you know would they Be regional would like would noble and coolly make drums for sort of like that region of like You know, I guess it would be new england or would they be making drums and sending them across You know the union or any info on that? I'm not really sure Um, I know there were several other drum manufacturers in the area in Connecticut that were making drums for this civil war at the same time Um, I don't know if all the uh production from the companies were being Sent to a central location and then distributed across the union. I'm not sure how that worked Okay, awesome There's a cool episode just so people can check out with patrick jones that was You know a little while back about the history of us military drumming that talks a lot about rope tension drums So people can if this is kind of scratching their uh, or it's giving them an itch to hear more about rope tension stuff in the civil war They can check that out. Um, but Wow, it's so interesting to think so many drums were made at that time and Um, just like thinking what happens to these drums? Obviously, they're probably destroyed in battle. They're, um Lost to fires. They're lost to floods and you know, you just they're not that prevalent nowadays. So that's Cool, you have a few Well that drum that we made for lincoln's campaign Uh was presented to the first massachusetts regiment to serve in the civil war and from there we lost track of it Uh, there was a rumor that it found its way to the us patent office The national geographic society tried to help us locate it back in the 1960s to no avail Um, it could have been destroyed in the war, but could be in somebody's attic in her next week So we're always sort of looking for it. That's the fun of it is like, you know, you you you like pray that it's not gone I know um claus hessler on here talked about jim chape and had a rope tension drum in his Front seat of his car and he left it unlocked when he was uh shooting his his, you know, really famous instructional video and someone stole it and um You just think these things have to be out there people don't I hope they don't just throw them away. So um The hunt continues, but uh, all right, so After that era So let's say that takes us up through what you said that did you say the the um, the original factory burned down and was it 1889? Is that right? Okay, so then they Have to rebuild it. Is their mindset now we're still a toy company At that point, I mean obviously Yes, you still are but okay. Yeah, uh, it was the volume of the toys that kept everything going Like I said, we've manufactured toys drums every year of our existence Yeah, um And obviously the marketing of the toys has changed over the years from Jobbers to distributors to freestanding to now it's all internet Uh So we had to change with the times in order to uh, you know stay in business Which is interesting because now For me I think if you guys and I think most people listening to this show think of you as a drum company Obviously you you always have been but um, it must have been flip-flopped back then they where they say oh noble and coolly the toy company almost like Um, not fisher price. That's kind of a major major toy. But you know what? I mean where you think of them as a toy company I mean for sure if you look at the badge off of one of our modern drums You know the solid shell classic kind of our most iconic snare that we make The badge still it doesn't say what series it is But it identifies the drum as the music division So like we we were a separate toy company and pro drum company and the early badges on the drums indicated that And we didn't that we didn't try let the music industry know that just that we were basically a toy company That's trying to break into the music industry. That's why it was the music division Yeah Nice. Yeah, that's um That's interesting. It's kind of a tough Um, you have the history though like like at that point of trying to break into the to you know into the Drum world but like you're older than every single company. That's in existence Yeah, but but think of the mindset back then. What's this toy company think? What do they know about making uh professional drums? Yeah, so we try to kept we played that low key and uh, obviously we It worked Well, that's interesting too because like you think of like, uh, let's say in the 80s or 90s you think of like Mattel or um Like there were companies who were making you know, they had commercials And i'm it's going to escape me now the actual which one it was but buddy rich was in some commercials Um For those buddy. Yeah, buddy rich was on one of our toy drum sets. Oh really? Yeah, um Um We in the 70s through the 90s. We were supplying all the toy drums for toys arrest child world jc penny sears Uh, we had 120 people spread over two shifts. Just you know keeping up with the demand gosh, wow, you know, I've um I've looked into him because I have a uh, he's now 14 or 15 months Basically, I have a one-year-old and I'm like for this Christmas. I'm gonna get I'm some sort of noble and cooly drum I think I I tried last year and I think you guys sold out or something. I couldn't find one but um They um, I love the vintage ones, but before we get there, let's back up You know 100 years here. So 1889. So we're in the early 1900s at that point. Basically you have they're building the new factory Uh, which you said is where you currently are now correct. Yeah, okay um What's the layout of it like? I mean, why don't you tell us a little bit about your your the factory maybe then And now um, so we can picture it a little bit. All right, the uh The three main buildings that were built between 1889 and 1906. I believe it was Um, our four-story wood frame timber frame buildings 10 roofs They were all connected together with bridges at the second and third floor So everything could be transferred, you know from one side of the street to the other without having without having to cross the road Um And they had a nice flow the the warehouse was a left-hand building the manufacturing with the taller ceilings were in the the other two Um, and it was you know pretty nicely laid out And we continued to grow over the years. We have over 12 buildings now, but they were just a hodgepodge addition of different buildings Uh For because we were a little paranoid of fire after having the one in 89 The uh, the boiler house was kept separate. It was a separate building for the boilers Uh, and the steam was piped in so if the boiler blew up, which it did in 1928 Uh, we didn't lose any of the manufacturing buildings Oh, wow. Yeah, how many employees let's say at that point in um, you know, the early days How many employees would they have at that point? Uh, we have pictures from the 1890s the early 1900s about 70 employees Wow, I mean that's a Serious company. I mean how many employees do you guys have now? I think there's five of us. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, so it's it's more of a small shop, but that's because you guys We're going back and we're going modern and hitting and historical here and jumping back and forth So that's because you guys now Right, you still make toy drums, correct But it's not what it was where you're like the leading manufacturer Sure, you know, you know, no, no We saw the the handwriting on the wall in the 1980s the that was when the migration of the toys started head overseas So to stay a viable supplier into the toy industry. We started importing other musical toys kazoos harmonicas The pianos, uh, cool and We were we had so if sears or pennies wanted a toy music category They could get everything from us a little marching drum a little drum set little piano guitar harmonica, whatever It kept us a viable supplier to the toy industry right up until 2001 Uh after 9 11 both pennies and sears cancelled all their orders because they figured there was not going to be any catalog business that year Which was fine for them, but it stuck us with 24 containers Of pre-purchased chinese crap arriving daily for that six-week christmas ship window. Oh my gosh So that was that was pretty much the end of the the toy business. Uh, yeah, you got burned Yeah, so yeah, we are still making a uh small toy drum an embossed tin drum for colonial williamsburg vermont country store um, it's a drum's uh design that we've had in line since 1914 Um, and what we do now in a year my mother would used to assemble in about two days Oh, man You know, and I just think too it's like, um You know, well no, I was gonna say well the the times have changed and kids have changed and it's a different time But I do think you know, maybe my son is really young and he still plays with a little drum And he plays on my drums, but I think once they get to a certain age Technology has obviously made it more like, you know, their kids are probably more interested and you know Their tablet and their video games as opposed to like, um, but listen, I mean I sound like an old man Yeah, but you're not wrong. Yeah, you're not wrong at all. Yeah. Yeah, interesting When you got those shipments of stuff and you switched, um And you were selling to like pennies and um, you know, the other the other stores Would they say noble and coolly or would you put like a different brand on them? What whoever they wanted or was it always noble and coolly still? It was pretty much noble and coolly. Uh, we put stickers on the little guitars that came in, um But it was yeah Some things were not branded. Mm-hmm. Sure. Yeah, there's unbranded just generic Correct Like made in china kind of drum. Okay, so um All right. Now early 1900s Were they still were you guys I'll say were you guys still making? Um Like snare drums Like drum drums like musical drums at that point or did it kind of switch back to just we're back to being a toy company Uh, the military drums lasted until around 1910 to 1920 Uh, that's that's when they phased out and then we went back to basically all toys Okay, so they were in I think my dates are right there. They were in world war one. People would be using noble and coolly. Um Drum possibly possibly i'm not sure Okay well I think that goes back to the question of um drums were in the civil war used for communication and for rallying troops And then you get into more modern warfare and there was radio communication Correct bigger artillery. So I guess that's sort of I think when I In previous episodes people have just kind of said it just phased out a little bit to have it was a little old school to have Marching drummers, uh, correct Okay, so 1920 you guys then switch back to being a toy company as you just said so, um Take us there. What what happened then through that, you know next couple decades Oh, it's just really the next couple decades there saw the evolution in Product material and manufacturing techniques, you know as as my dad said earlier We started off doing everything wood steam bend, you know veneers that were glued together and using stretched hide heads and then you know as and everything was steam powered um, and eventually we switched over to doing tin And printing on the tin ourselves, you know, it originally would have been wood burned and embossed and hand painted on wood which then switched to tin that We had built a three color printing press for that. We would be doing designs and artwork on that which eventually evolved into our own custom uh, like protected eight color printing press that we made um, so it was more the like manufacturing revolution that was kind of sweeping over the world at that time kind of came through our door as well Switching from water and steam power to more modern techniques and therefore materials being used along with it Interesting. Okay Yeah, that's fascinating. Just uh, I mean those early wooden toy drums. They sound like Beautiful little toys, you know what I mean? Like real heads and I mean they sound amazing, but very time intensive to make those Right. We started making the tin drums around 1900 and as nick alluded to The uh, the technology was not good enough to actually print on the steel very well without it flaking off So in order to decorate the drums, they would emboss it actually press the pattern right into the tin Um, and then we developed our own three color printing press in 1910 and then our own eight color offset printing press in 1926 Got it. Got it. That's interesting Man, you must have been leaders in the technology pushing that stuff forward and um, and this is all American made obviously, so it's kind of pre The overseas boom of things being made Um in china and in japan, so it's just the craftsmanship is is, you know Not what they not what you see today in toy drums Right and you know that printing press that we designed, uh was kept a trade secret. Uh, it was never patented Because once you patent something it becomes public knowledge People can look up your patents see how uh, you look at your drawings that you had to submit to get your patent and figure Oh, that's how they're doing it and build something similar So our printing press was kept in a locked room only the owners and the pressmen were allowed in for the first 10 years It took our production capacity from on a five color print would take Two to three weeks to make a couple thousand pieces with a three color press And you could do a 1200 pieces before lunch every day with the eight color press Wow Is that technology i'm assuming since that time is it still a secret or did that kind of come out and become, um You know to people know what it is now is that Oh, yeah, but it's basically an offset print printing press Um, I gave a tour to the society of industrial archaeologists several years ago And they had a guest with them. Uh, her name was Halina Wright from the smithsonian and her field of expertise was printing and lithography And we were actually running the press for this tour group And she was in absolute awe seeing this 1926 antique machine doing the print quality job that was that we were, uh, producing and She said you have a one of a kind piece here and I basically told her well, we only had to build one But what she meant was in her field of expertise. She's never seen another eight color offset press this old She believed is probably one of the first one. It's in existence Geez, that's unbelievable. Do you Does it still operate right now? Oh, sure. I can uh, you know put some ink in it and Ink it up and go ahead and print. Yeah, it's currently sitting in our museum. Um, so I mean it's not hooked up at the moment But we could put a belt back on it and have it running in a couple hours Wow, and it's like a hundred it is basically a hundred years old. I mean, that's yeah 1926 Okay, coming up on that. Wow unbelievable, it's um The drum it's it's just crazy that it was for toy drums, you know what? I mean that kind of technology, but um, it it obviously, uh You know, it made you guys stand out and be able to produce all these little little tin drums and uh, and and It might be a crazy thought, but maybe that led to we're talking the 19, you know, 1926 1930 Drums are booming gene krupa's out there papa joe jones is playing Drums are becoming more popularized Kids go and buy toy drums because that's their first attainable thing So, I mean really you guys are part of the history of um, you know creating this These drum crazy, you know Nerds like all of us where they're obsessed with Yeah, uh, I look at it as we were seeding the drum industry with the toys Yeah, I mean we we still get people approaching us at trade shows or you know Just sending emails every now and then or sometimes just sending photos of like I found this old photo of me on my very first kit and it's you know A noble and cooly kit that they got for Christmas when they were five years old You know in the 1950s Um, it still happens all the time actually one of the guys we just hired here has a photo that his Mom had took Christmas morning with his first kit and it's a noble and cooly toy kit Hmm Now let's real quick Because now if we're talking about a toy kit, so it would be and let's just say for example Um, the the guy who you just hired who like so it's a little bass drum Little snare. What does the drum set actually look like it has a little seat? I mean, it's not just a toy snare, right? It's an actual no, it's uh, it's a bass drum Uh that has the tom tom bolted to it And a tone block bolted to the top of that with a couple wires to hold a couple press 10 symbols It was you know, very very quick and easy to put together The assembly would put together between 80 and 100 dozen drum sets a day Oh my god, that's a ton. Wow And then it's nice and easy for you know, mom or dad to set up when they get home It's not like a real drum set where dad can't figure out the high hat and Right. Yeah. I mean, you do still have to you know, there's there's some wing nuts and some bolts involved and you know a little bit of Assembly involves when you take it out of a box But yeah, it basically everything would attach to one central bass drum And then yes, it would come with a with a throne and some sticks and a symbol or two Yeah, and I've I've seen I think I saw and maybe like reverb or ebay or something And you know, you'd have like your different front bass drum head that had like daffy duck on it or something like that Your cartoon characters Cool. Okay, so Let's fast forward then You tell me when to stop. So how long did it then continue on? So we were in the 50s there a little bit like when did it maybe switch to You know You guys making the amazing beautiful drums that we know Today or where were there any other big monumental changes in that, you know Half century from the 50s to the 2000s when you got all the shipping containers that you couldn't do anything with Well, let's see my my dad tried to start a gift ware line To try to smooth out the peaks and valleys of a toy company has one peak at christmas Gift wares and housewares has a peak in june. So it's a very nice offset So we made drum themed Uh ice buckets waste baskets lamps cutting boards and that sort of thing which added a second line another Income stream to the company Until as you brought up earlier rock and roll hit when the Beatles hit at that point in time every kid wanted to be ring Oh And the toy production took off to the point where we had to take over every square foot of manufacturing space To make the toy drums So the gift were just got pushed out out of business and During that period of time the 60s through the 90s We put three or four additions on the on the plant, you know from warehousing to manufacturing Just to keep up with that demand Uh, man, but you know, I I started here full time in 1972 ish That's official. I used to walk down from the grade school when I was in fourth grade So I've been here forever And Doing the same toy stuff over and over again got to be boring Uh, and a gentleman came to me with uh in 1980 He had a cracked slingerland radio king And his wife had gotten of one of our waste baskets or ice buckets that had a steam bent wooden hoop on it So he came in and asked me if I could make him a new shell And I took a look at it. I said, I don't see why not And he convinced me that uh, every recording artist worth anything was Scouring tag sales pawn shops trying to find these solid wood steam bent drum shells of the pre second world war era So that was an idea and I was very very very fortunate to be able to start the music division of the company Being financed by the toy side of the company Uh, so that's how we morphed into the company that we are now So after, uh, 9 11 and the toys basically went away We had still had a viable product and a workforce that was continuing to move it forward and here we are unbelievable, I mean I just think Rewinding a little bit and everyone who listens to the show it just it's it's amazing how much ringo comes up in places that you wouldn't imagine um of like For you guys, I mean your production blowing up Because of the Beatles and because of ringo. It's just it's it affected Everything which is so cool. Um Okay, so and you said that was in the 80s that the music division was actually, um more or less created Correct. The 1981 is when I built the first prototype of our classic snare And I Being young and brash Buddy rich was playing in a near close by town And I took my prototype and stuck it under my arm went out behind the simsbury high school where his bus was and knocked on the bus door um and He actually was very gracious. He invited me in and said what do you what do you want? I showed him my prototype and he tapped on it and he told the Tour manager to put it on the stage. So I was ecstatic So here, you know, buddy rich is gonna play my prototype So we go out in the audience. Well, everything that could go wrong did go wrong that first set It was obviously it was a high school production Kids were trying to get the lighting right the lights are going on and off. He stopped and yelled at it people He was playing He was playing one set list and the rest of the band was on another set list So every time he started something they all started shuffling the music So come in or mission time. He was not in a very good mood Uh, so when I went back to the bus after the tour manager said, no, you don't want to go in there right now Uh, but he brought me in and said it sounds like a tub. I can't hear it from where I'm sitting So Uh, oh man, you that's unbelievable. So I was crushed at that point But then he said as I was leaving the bus he goes, but uh, you're on the right track Refind it and make it better so So that was my you know took my prototype to to buddy rich and that was and that's how we hooked up with buddy rich and he became one of our pictures on our toy set and an actual Lesson book was incorporated in that drum set with lessons from him man, I mean Did you tell him like my family has been making toy drums since before the civil war to give you a little bit of like Clout, you know what I mean? Did you kind of I would I sure as Mel would have mentioned that to kind of just say like listen We were did you give him the whole story? I'm just curious, you know No, I had like three minutes between the time I knocked on the door And the time he had to go get on stage. So no, there's not much not much story involved there at all Sure, and I love the idea or the the image of buddy rich yelling at a bunch of high schoolers for screwing up the production Yeah, I mean you are the lights go home. That's a quote Wow buddy, man, I was gonna say of course he handled it calmly and uh, it was a nice Geez that is unbelievable, but you didn't give up No Though that maybe that last bit of advice from buddy is is what you know that he left you on a high note, right? That's right. That's a good thing and that's you know right around that time I hooked up with bob gatson from creative music in weathersfield. Um, he had a percussion shop um, he was a professionally trained or percussionist and He had a set of ears and that would you know, I had to trust because I'm not a drummer uh And he I'd make prototypes. He'd refine them. We'd make changes and Over the next two or three years. We ended up with our solid wood maple classic, which uh, we are still making today Yeah Okay, now pause there because you you said something and I don't think I think that sometimes people think that You have to be a drummer to make drums or work for a drum company or work at a drum store So you yourself are not a drummer No, I am definitely not a drummer Uh, I I don't do I'm not a musician of anything. I like to say I play the radio um now actually Working with bob gatson that turned out to be a pretty good thing because not being a drummer I didn't have any preconceived thoughts of what a drum should be how it should be built how things should go together Um, he threw a problem at me and I just figured out the way I thought it should be figured out Got it. Yeah. Now. Do you classify yourself then as more of a Like I am a woodworker. I am a manufacturer. Is that more of like what you would say your, you know, Thing is in in all of this? Yeah, uh, I like to build things. I've always liked to build things So and I like my hands on it. I like to build the equipment to uh, you know simplify and make things better um, and nick has an ongoing list all the time of Things he'd like improved upon so I get to a tinker in the machine shop and build new equipment all the time Gotcha. Yeah. And now so nick Obviously the you know jade's son the next generation of this stuff You are a drummer and obviously you you have some studio stuff So i'm assuming you work with audio engineering, uh, you know stuff as well, but nick you were a drummer then, correct? This is gonna kill you. No, I'm not Who's the drummer? No, I'm kidding. My brother. My brother is the drummer is the short answer to this story Um, that's so funny. Wow. He's a couple years lower than I am He got the bug to play drums early on in life and you know, we grew up wanting to play in bands together We grew up, you know in the nirvana era of the power trio And you know when he was on drums, we didn't need a second drummer in the family So I started on guitar eventually moved to bass and that's kind of where I still stay Awesome. I built myself a drum kit. I built myself two drum kits now. I can't play them to save my life. Um, I don't have the coordination And also the time which is the more important factor there to really develop to be able to do two hands and two feet at the Same time, you know, I'm I'm good if you give me just feet or just hands But as soon as I try to introduce a third element a fall apart And I don't have the time to dedicate towards practicing that wouldn't take away from building drums It's fascinating that you guys are making some of the Binus drums in the world and maybe part of it is that you aren't like like Jay said where you aren't drummers and you can like Look at it with a different You know different eyes and and treat things differently and not get stuck in The like no, it's it's we do it this way because we've always done it this way sort of thing and uh That's so cool. I'm we do also surround ourselves with drummers. Um, everybody that we hire is a drummer It's not part of a required like job application by any means It just I mean Saying you work for a drum company tends to attract a certain demographic most of which are drummers um, so it's it's pretty easy to Keep that As one of those things that we have for everybody else that comes through So, you know if we're building a new prototype or something Obviously, I can tell when I tune it up and hit it like oh, hey this this particular drum sounds terrible We should go back to the drawing board on it But having an extra set of years or two or three around here that you know can take it down and really Dive into it and you know play with some nuances that it delivers. It is very helpful to have Absolutely, but like you said to tune it up Um and hit it doesn't require you to be a lifelong drummer. You know what sounds good Right. Yeah, I have the ear for it. I mean I can tune a drum and hit it and tell what it sounds like That's that's not a problem. It's the introducing the beat keeping ability of coordination that I fall apart at Yeah, man. I think that's so cool. It's just like um It's very interesting uh that you don't have to be Uh Like you don't have to be a race car driver to work on cars That's a horrible example because you probably would have to drive but No, but you're you're right and you know Especially with a company as old as ours that is a family company that passes down through generations. I mean It seems kind of obvious when you look at it from that point of view that like yeah Not everybody in the family over seven generations is going to be a drummer Like it's just that's not the way it's going to shake out. No seven generations. Wow. Yeah, I'm I'm the seventh That's so cool. Unbelievable Yeah, so If my brother worked here, there would be a drummer in the family that works here, but he does not work with the company So that's just as as luck would have it. He didn't and I did um, and I'm not the drummer Yeah, no, that's interesting. Cool. Well, I like I said, I think that's really um I kind of like that I think it's neat and and there's a lot of you see old pictures of people working in like slingerland factories or The slingerland factory or Ludwig or gretch or whatever where it'd be like old women Not to say that they weren't drummers, but they'd be like doing the rapping of the drum shells or where they're working there And there's a good chance that these these, you know older women aren't drummers. They're just doing this as a job You know, I think it's pretty common. Yeah, definitely. Um but like I mean I I tend to think there's an extra sense of pride in having Someone who can appreciate and play and enjoy the instrument Doing some of those more mundane tasks that may seem thankless at the time Definitely, you know, if it's something that you're like, man, I might take this one home with me like there is that extra level of Intent behind it. Yeah, like you're so and I think of that too. I'm like you're you're you're so obsessed with Our instrument that you're happy putting um screwing lugs on every day Yep, just because you love drums Um cool. So that was basically in the 80s Now through the 90s, you were making drums like you had, you know, you were producing drums Why don't you take us take us from there? Um And on and I probably just derailed us because we might be already past that but yeah Why don't you guys just take us through, you know up into the modern modern time? Well, once we had the classic snare drum Um Process nailed down We it morphed into drum sets And we configured, you know, tried to make a drum set with all horizontal plies to make it Like a solid wood steam bent drum would be made out of plies So we you know, that was our horizon series We now have four different drum set lines And we have expanded the species from just the maple that we started To nine different local hardwood species that we are steaming and bending now Got it. Where do you guys source your wood typically for this kind of stuff? It's all local. Um Everything comes out for the most part from Granville or the surrounding towns But every now and then we will have to drive a little further afield to pick it up Um, but you know everything within an hour or so of the factory You know, if we get really desperate for a maple We'll walk across the street find a maple in the woods and cut it down ourselves But everything comes really locally for a long time. There was a lumberjack in town There's there's one other business in this tiny little town that we're based out of And it's a small little country store that serves coffee and stuff in the morning And there was a lumberjack and a couple other guys that would get there They're you know, they're start of the day over there every morning So if we knew that we needed maple we'd drive over and say, hey When you're out on the wood stay look for a good straight large maple and put our name on it And uh, he would knock it down and bring it up to a guy that ran a small mill in his backyard That would saw it to our rough blanks for us and then drop it here Where we would you know, plane it and do the prepping and put it through its process That has recently changed. Um, we now have the mill here That guy was getting out of that business and he was in his mid 70s So we took over the mill from him and now it lives in one of our repurposed buildings here So that kind of came back in house within the last month or two Man, that's awesome. Most drum companies don't have access to a lumberjack who's sitting there drinking coffee waiting for uh We were very fortunate to have that Yeah, that's that's so cool. Um Now can you explain a little bit? Well, let me ask so and and I should probably know this but Are all of your shells Steam bent shells No No, okay. So what my question is then is on the steam bent shells, which do you still do any steam bent shells? Or is it all just a different normal kind of, you know Shell building process now we do the steam bent drums are snares only Okay, okay. Um I'm just totally curious. Can you explain how the steam bent process works a little bit? Okay, uh, so Right now we get a log. I put on the sawmill. I slice it into half inch thick slabs Uh by nine inches wide. They come into the factory. We take and uh plane them down to the proper thickness cut them to length Put a scarf joint on the end of them. Uh, so the when you're when they're curled and uh overlapped uh the glue The glue surface ends up being the same thickness as the rest of the shell Uh, we we can bend batches of 34 drums at a time So we prep 34 put them in the steam chest steam them for four three to four hours Run them through the bending machine into the forms And then they'll have to age and cure for 10 to 12 weeks before we can then glue that lap Uh and put in the reinforcing hoop to turn it into a drum So we have literally hundreds and hundreds of shells that are bent and in temporary forms curing waiting for the orders Uh, so we have to have an inventory of right now. Like I said nine different species of woods Uh all curing to a point where you could then grab them glue the lap put in the reinforcing hoops Turn them and then paint and finish them Man, that's fascinating. I'm where I live. I'm pretty close to like, you know bourbon country and Uh, Kentucky and it kind of reminds me of that where you have to like Plan way ahead and like, um, like there was a distillery that opened pretty close by to where I am and they It's like you can't just say all right. We're gonna open in a year It's like we'll know you need to age it for four years before you're even like legally allowed to you know do it so, um That's neat. That's a lot of planning ahead there So then you guys obviously make the rest of your shells for the kit, correct? That they wouldn't be steam bent snares are only steam bent. So everything else is made in house, right? No, the the ply shells we do not make in house Okay, gotcha. Who are those keller or um, we use a number of different suppliers for a different series The the mainstays the the long term kits here that we've had since kind of we started doing kits Uh have been with keller the entire time which are cd maples and our horizons have been with them forever Awesome. We added two other series of kits in the last five Three years five years. Um, and both those come from other suppliers Cool. We've we've definitely on this show. Um, we're very uh, everyone who listens I hope is on board with me of being very pro keller because I think there was we've talked about it before where there's like There's like a thing of like, oh, it's a keller kit, but it's like no keller makes very specific shells for companies and there's um, there was a keller episode of the podcast but um, I mean they just make unbelievable stuff. Yeah, every now and then we get we get pushed back on that for, you know Oh, they don't make their own shells like yeah, we don't Um for those we still steam bend all of our own solid shells. Um, and you know keller makes Very specific things for very specific people like you couldn't call up keller tomorrow and order Our configuration for our horizon kit, you know, it's still our design. It was our prototypes They just have the capacity to press The shells that we simply don't have being the small mom and pop company that we are, you know Each one of those presses is thousands and thousands of dollars That we just don't have the the infrastructure to be able to support, right? So we we specify the uh Direction of plies the thickness of plies and species and they make that shell for us Yeah, yeah totally they again I uh I think it's it's because there are keller shells that you can just get online and buy But that's not what company is like you and there's a number of other companies out there And I think keller is just an awesome company. Um so cool, um, and now you guys are Very very, um popular in the drum world People I just think people, you know, just you're probably so close to it that I can tell you that I think noble and coolly has this just level of like uh craftsmanship and like expertise, um, and I actually taught drums to a guy who, um This was years ago, but he he just learned he was, um I don't think he would mind me saying pretty wealthy guy. He was a lawyer He also owned movie theaters in town here and he wanted to learn And um his very first drum set that he bought was a five piece noble and coolly set Which I was like, okay mine was a two piece percussion plus kit from mars music Bit of a discrepancy there, but um So and and it's just you know, I actually don't think he plays anymore I think he stopped playing which is sort of like a what happened to that Yeah, you should offer take that off his hands. Yeah, I'll take it man. I'll yeah, um, but I remember him saying just when he got I'm like and I think it's not bad that if you have the means to start with a A very very high quality drum set you're probably gonna sound a little better than on your percussion plus kit with you know A tin symbol and uh and and all that but um, he loved it and I I believe I've played some snares, um at the chicago show Um and They're just great drums I mean you guys you guys have to should be very proud of what you've accomplished You know or being in your family. You should be very proud of the seven generations. Thank you. Yeah yeah, so um Now take us up to the modern day. I think we're we're there, but like what's going on right now with noble and cooly what's in the works Um, you know who's some endorses maybe who is who's playing just you know, what's going on right now? Yeah, uh, it's honestly been a strange and hectic busy couple months here. Um, sure My my mother is retiring. Um, so that's that is kind of first and foremost of of the big changes You know, she's been holding down the fort in the office for 36 years now So finding somebody to just step into her shoes is not an easy task Um, so as far as what's happening right now, it's figuring out that um But beyond that we uh, we have added a new series of kit in uh Last month, right? It was mid-september. I think we rolled that out. So we have a new series of kit that just came out. Um We're already working on our next prototypes for a new snare Which might lead to a new series of kit that we hope to have coming out early next year. So always always reinventing the wheel a little bit Yeah, totally. Yeah, that's it's um It's really cool. I I think that there's gonna be a lot of people who are listening to this episode who maybe Didn't realize that you guys were like let's say for you know 80 percent of your life line of being a company. We're a toy company. I think that's a big takeaway and that uh I just love knowing that you guys are just literally like sourcing all of the wood. So so the snares I mean the snares are kind of known for being one of your your specialties, obviously Um, can people get them? Anywhere in particular or is it a made to order thing or I know what you have There's the series where they're you're producing them, but um, where can people get them really? Yeah, so we work with a number of dealers across well across the globe really But domestically we have a number of really good dealers that do stock a whole bunch of snares. Um Beyond that the easiest way, you know If you want something more special and custom built for you is to go onto our website Drop us an email. It's going to be probably me that answers it or maybe one of the other guys in the office And we'll talk about what you need for a custom build and we'll set you up with a dealer in your area We do not sell direct everything does end up having to go through a dealer because we do have a small network of shops that You know took the plunge on carrying our product and you know, they support us and we want to foster that that support and You know kind of grow that network. So you know, we'll More than happy to talk about all the specs and configurations of something that you want to build And then you know run that through one of the shops that we work with But we do have a number of good dealers that do stock our drums There's a full list of all of the the retailers that sell them over on our website Gotcha. Yeah, that's cool. So um, and then obviously people can visit noble Cooley.com C-o-o-l-e-y Dot com. Um, there's all kinds of stuff there Now and this is probably just like family stuff, obviously But when did it switch from when did the last name switch from noble to jones? I mean, obviously people get married and all that stuff through the generations But how did that happen? Well, it came down obviously on my on my mother's side of the family Uh, the second generation Cooley's had a son and a daughter and the Son did not have any children and so the company moved to his nephews And his sister had married a man named hires My mother's maiden name was hires. She married a man named jones So it is still direct bloodline family, but the name changed twice Coming through the maternal side of the branch Gotcha. That's cool. Yeah, man 1854. There's uh That's just it's so neat that it's still functioning I mean, what who would be maybe the next oldest drum company and let's just say america would that be Ludwig, I know rogers. I think it was in like God, no, I'm gonna like shoot myself in the foot because I I've done an episode on it But I think rogers was originally in like ireland or something making drum heads, but Ludwig would maybe be the oldest. That would be my guess, but I really don't know. I don't know You'd have to research and find out when gretch actually got started. I'm not sure I have to listen back to my own where there's a gretch episode. I think oh, I think gretch was I think it was 1898 Um And I'm going to now um, oh 1883 was gretch And so they're rookies. They're rookies. Who are the new kids on the block here? Wow This is great any other cool little um tidbits about the company or anything like that that you guys want to do Do you still make any rope tension drums? We don't um, so we did for the 150th anniversary of the civil war we took that Marching drum that we were talking about earlier out of the glass case and had the wood identified Because it's you know old and painted and not easily recognizable at a glance And discovered that it was tulip, which is you know pretty readily available up here So for the 150th anniversary of the war to commemorate it We built a limited number of rope tension drums using tulip wood Uh in the you know the same jigs and fixtures Done the same way that we would have done it for the civil war and we made just a small number of those So that was the last rope tension that we did But that actually led to we figured okay. Well, we're steam bending tulip We should do a modern snare drum out of that just to see what it looks like side by side Take a picture of it. You know put it up on social media and laugh Um, we still I don't believe have actually taken that photo Um, but as it turns out tulip is an amazing sounding wood And is one of our most popular selling solid shell snare drums to date And the kit that we just introduced last month we named the union series Um, and it is made out of 100 tulip Hmm. Wow It sounds I don't know much. I need to learn. I guess I need to do an episode on it I don't know that much about the I'm not a big wood Guy and I want to be where I want to know all the differences More I'm not as familiar with tulip You know anything about it. So I have to research that more. That's really cool. So the reason it was used originally Was that it was extremely lightweight So, I mean as we noted earlier drummer boys were typically that they were young children You know wearing wool uniforms who are responsible for communicating with people in the field that if they couldn't hear them or communicate People were dying So there were very strict penalties if the if the boy was caught without his drum So it needed to be something that they could carry and have with them at all times So beyond what it sounded like, you know, they were built as a tool of communication not as a good sounding instrument Um, so that was its primary function was that it was light and portable Um, so it is a very soft Warm deep sounding wood which lends itself to a very nice sounding modern built vintage sounding drum kit Interesting and you said it's very readily available. It's not like, you know Bubinga or whatever again. I'm not a wood guy. No, it is it is one of the largest indigenous trees to know england Uh, they'll grow up to uh, 10 foot in circumference Yeah, and oh man, and they grow nice and straight. Uh, we actually uh went up last Last spring. Yeah, and uh, because we couldn't get a a tool blog the uh Our logger couldn't get into the woods because of mud and whatever and so across the street from the factory up on the property There was a beautiful tree that was like three feet across and it's 60 feet to the first branch So I harvested that and turned it into a bunch of drums So cool to think that you guys are out there just getting these trees And uh, then people are fast forward, you know, however long the steam bending and all that they're They're being played. They're making music. That's just amazing Cool. Well, um I think that's great. I I uh, oh, this is kind of a selfish last question But I want to get one how do people go about getting Um the tin drum that you guys make because it's it's actually sort of I had a little bit of trouble finding one I think I could only find one at one shop online and it sold out So what's the best way to get a um a tin drum? So they used to be listed directly for sale on our website. Yeah, I thought they still were if not If I'm wrong about that, we do also have a museum one website set up that is ncchp Which is nc noble and coolie center for historic preservation So ncchp.org and there's a little web store on there that has toy drums on it And beyond that shoot me an email nick nisc at noble coolie.com and I'll help you out Awesome. Yeah, I'm on ncchp.com or I'm sorry ncchp.org Yep, right there there's a link on the bottom of our home page of our regular website Oh, yeah, okay. I see it right there and there you go There's the ice bucket and all that stuff and okay now just questions are coming to me So when you guys said before that you were making you got into the gift You know realm so really if something is You know a vintage Drum looking item like like you said a wastebasket or an ice bucket or a table There's a decent chance that that was made by noble and coolie then, right? Yeah, definitely in the in the 50s 60s and 70s. Yes Cool because I've seen tons of that stuff and I have a little table That's like a rope tension drum. That's just turn, you know, it's actually just a table, but um Now I'm gonna go and yeah, that's definitely ours. Yeah Cool, man, I know it's not like I'm sure it's not valuable because it's just a table and all that stuff But it just feels cool knowing like oh, it's noble and coolie Yeah, there's there's a number of them out there I think for a number of years like all of my friends in high school ended up getting like Drum shaped seats that had storage in them as we were going off to college and whatnot. No As they're around Awesome. Well, this is great because I learned where to get the tin drum So that's really cool for me and uh, awesome. Well, I hope everyone out there really enjoyed this episode. Um So many people reached out. I just can't first I would just Really don mccauley who you guys, you know, did some work with who's just been a big obvious long friend of the show mark robertson who's Um was pushing me to get you guys on and then like I said literally too many to to think of um Thank you to everyone who did suggest noble and cooly. Um, it's been It's been one of those things where I just think of my These guys have to hate me because I keep emailing them, but Not at all not a bit Okay, because we're now we're done. We've done it and I'll I'll leave you alone, but um, great Jay nick, I want to thank you guys. Um, again, it's noble cooly Dot com to go and actually check out the amazing drums they're making. Um, and then It was ncchp.org To go look for um, they have all kinds of other stuff on there. You have a cutting board that looks like a duck. You have all kinds of wood stuff Um, so thank you guys for being on the show and taking the time to do this. This has been great. Of course Thanks for thanks for having us on it's been great If you like this podcast find me on social media at drum history and please share rate and leave a review And let me know topics that you would like to learn about the future Until next time keep on learning This is a gwin sound podcast