 The future is Web3, NFTs, and gaming. Here's why. There's a billion people in the world, 3.2 billion people are gamers. Gaming takes in $109 billion in revenue annually, which dwarfs the movie and music industry at 61 billion combined. Help me explain why this will take off. I have a special guest. This is Yatsu. He's the co-founder of Animoka Brands, which is a software venture capital company. Incubated over 400 projects, small guys like the sandbox, Axie Infinity, and OpenSea yet started in Web1 in the early 90s in Japan and Hong Kong, setting up ISP's email and web hosting before landing at AT&T as one of the youngest execs, yet got into Web2 by creating Outplays, which is a gaming and cloud service company which was sold to IBM in 2008. Animoka came next. In 2011, you guys had 12 of the top 20 apps in the Apple Store before being de-platformed and later re-platformed just under a year. You can speak to us about censorship. Web3 came next with CryptoKitties in 2017. Now, you've said that your current goal is to educate and deliver true digital property rights for everyone. Yat, thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Yes, excellent. The reason why I had you here, I saw you on Paul Barone, shout out to Paul. You made the most sense of talking about NFTs and digital property rights because I cannot explain it effectively. Let's just start with the basics, which is this. What is Web3? Why do we need it? Why is it so important? That'll be the basics of basics. Let's just go over this real quick. Well, let's just start with the basics. A lot of people describe as Web1 as a read internet and Web2 as the internet in which you can read, write or basically, our data starts to compose other experiences like you see in blogs, for instance, and in other forums and so on, and give rise to things like Facebook and so on. Web3 is the web of ownership. By that, what we mean is that all this data that we're writing on to what exists in Web2, actually now we have a stake in it. We have a way in which we can own a piece of it. I think this is what really went wrong in Web2 because Web1 was all about sort of free and open and fair distribution of information. We actually democratized knowledge, probably speaking of things like Wikipedia and the fact that we could understand what the prices were that we're purchasing for around the world. Farmers around the world could use things like Alibaba or Amazon and trade across the world knowing that the prices were being fairly priced around the world. But the problem was that the web became very powerful with data and data is the world's most valuable resource. It powers everything and we wouldn't have AI and chat GPT if it wasn't for data, for instance. We wouldn't have self-driving cars with Tesla. We wouldn't have all this amazing sort of companies like Facebook and Apple and Google if it wasn't for the power of AI. But who fuels that power of AI? It comes from data and who gives that data? We do. Every time we put data, you know, like in the form of photos into Instagram, we make Instagram more powerful. We make them more valuable because after all, if we stop putting data, putting photos into Instagram, it wouldn't be worth anything. But how much do we get paid for that labor? Nothing. And we don't know what that price is. And that's basically what Web 3 comes in. Because the way we can think about Web 3 is that every time that we contribute to the network, not just for free, we would actually receive some value back. Do we get paid or do we perhaps get a stake? And this is where tokenization is interesting because we can essentially build equity into the networks that we construct. And right now, that's not possible by design because people don't want to know what our data is worth. But once we do know what our data is worth, we'll demand our fair price. We'll demand our fair share. And that's basically what the Web of Ownership can offer. And why we're so excited. And we think it's just a better, fair internet. And it's the way the world is anyway operating in a real one, where we have physical property rights. So why should we not have digital property rights in the new web? Okay. So that's great. This is what confuses me. Because I'm old. And like when the Web 1, the Web 2 came about, I just thought, okay, this is great. And then, you know, we have physical ownership of things. And you give a prime example, which will be my next question about the TED Talk. We have physical ownership of things, which makes sense to me. But as Web 2 came out, I was like, oh, Facebook is free. That's fantastic. And later on, I learned that I'm actual the product. So the question I have is this. Is that with that TED Talk, you talked about physical and digital property as platforms and ownership or the thesis that content is a platform. So just kind of break it down. And before you do, there was this great quote that you put out, which talked about digital or just rights in general, which looked like this, freedom and property rights are inseparable. You can't have one without the other. And we took a look at the per capita income, highly correlates the property rights. We took a look at top 20%. America and UK and the bottom 20%. The people that don't own a lot of different things. And of course, you have a nice little example of the network that we own and do not own. So again, yeah, break this down for us in the simplest way we can. Sure. A pleasure. So first of all, when we think about the physical world, right, for instance, if you own a car, one of the benefits of owning the car is that it is your property. And one thing you can do is you can do whatever you want with it. You have the freedom to transact, you have the freedom to move it around, you have the freedom to sort of, you know, sell it into pieces if you want or actually compose new experiences on top of it, like install a new radio or paint the car red or blue or yellow. And this is where the business opportunities come about because you don't might not be the person that can do this, but a third party vendor can say, oh, I can paint that car for you. I can change your tires. I can basically give you a baby seat. And what happens is that people innovate on top of the ownership of others. In other words, every person that actually owns a car in the physical world becomes a platform in its own way because we become an addressable market. So for instance, a property example, I give, you know, the car, which was, you know, with a Ford Model T over 100 years ago. So only purpose was to drive you from point A to point B and be more efficient than that of a horse. Sure, makes sense, right? And also the cars were all black because it was purely for utility. Right. But then, you know, 30 years later, someone else said, hey, you know what, I want to transport my little kids, my baby, my toddler in the car safely. And they actually created a baby seat. They didn't go to Ford and say, do I have permission to put in the baby seat? They just went and made one and they adapted it to fit into the baby seat into the, into the, into the car. And that also led to things like, oh, maybe we need, you know, car seats and we need other things. And new innovations that basically brought standards into the car that one made the car more safer, but two also gave it more utility and three gave it more value. And so what happens is that when you have a piece of property that is now owned in this decentralized manner, actually what happens is that the network effects begin to construct on top of adding value on top of the car itself. So meaning today you don't buy a car just to take it from point A to point B, the car is more valuable because it's something that you use for maybe your social identity, because it looks really cool, because it's very faster, or because it, you know, goes off road versus it goes somewhere that is sort of, you know, some accelerates and sort of, you know, flat roads or whatever it is. There's all these use cases. In fact, the ability that the car can take you from point A to point B is actually perhaps the smallest of utilities. The main reason is everything else that makes the car valuable that was now composed by thousands and thousands of businesses. And so the value of the car is comprised of these network effects that be constructed. And network effects, when they're limited, and this is what happens in the internet space in work two, basically is permission. So for instance, I can't create an app without the permission of Apple, for instance, I can't create sort of have access to sort of a service without API permission from Facebook, for instance, and they can take it away from you at any time. That's the problem that we have. And therefore you can invest in it. And so this comes to the reasons why property rights broadly are important. Because I can own a piece of real estate, and I have the certainty that this is my real estate, a bank can give me a 30 year mortgage, for instance, I can also invest in it, I can build a restaurant, or build a business knowing that I can have this for many, many years to develop on top. Now take this into the API world of work two, when Apple might change the rules every six months. Imagine you have a tendency which you're running a restaurant, and the landlord comes to you and changes the terms of your deal every six months. How can you actually invest in something long term? You can't. Which means the window of your investment becomes limited. You can only expose your risk into short term capital. But short term capital doesn't bring returns. When you actually do a long term, when you can think of a 10 year business plan or a two year business plan or five year business plan, when you can think about a roadmap of the long term future, you can really invest. Think of, for instance, when you buy a house, you know it's your house. What do you do? You invested it, you make it beautiful, you take care of it, you sort of worry about the furniture, and you worry about how it looks like, because you think of its resale value, you think of its sort of value long term, as opposed to you rent a house, and you basically, you don't worry about a long term, you basically don't treat it as well. After one year you're out onto the next house, and you have to do maintenance because that house is not usually dealt with as nicely as a house that you really own. It's the same effect. And just to go to the country's example, in extreme case, you have nations like North Korea that have no property rights whatsoever, which we think is a state of web too. But the problem is you can't make these investments. You can't have anything long term. No bank will give you a mortgage or something you do not own, versus the kind of capital formation that can happen in the countries like the U.S., or in Canada, or in places in Europe, where you actually have real property rights. And as a result, you can have capital formation and all this value accrue, which is why these countries also have the highest GDPs. So you now take this in the equivalent of the internet in terms of web 2 versus web 3. It's exactly the same narrative. If I can actually own these NFTs, these digital assets, I can have capital formation on them. They may not be, they may not be worth millions, but they're worth certainly much more than they were basically when we didn't have any ownership or control over them, as an example. And that basically also gives us freedoms, because when we own our property, we actually have our freedoms attached to it, the freedom to transact, the freedom to do business with whoever wanted to, and the freedom to basically sort of decentralize everything that we're doing to have other businesses transact with us without needing permission. So property rights and freedom, as George Washington famously said, are completely intertwined. It's the basis of our democracies. It's the basis of our liberties today in the world. Gotcha. So that makes a lot of, I mean, that makes sense on the physical property side. But so when I thought about it, and NFTs, I took a look at the game and we talked about in the beginning, I took a look at, I'm like, I think the big play here is the skins, the weapons, the upgrades, and things like that in the games. And it sounded good to me, but then you said something different. You talked about how that is a good part, but the bigger part has to do with how the DAO is organized and how people actually run and control these areas. So break that down because I think like, yeah, because you talked about them both things, and that will help my audience out. So let me, let me explain two things here, because they're interrelated, but they're also separated. So first thing, you know, digital ownership, the decentralized digital ownership is critical. So imagine for a moment, let's just sort of do a thought experiment, right? And we say Fortnite skins were actually on chain. Well, what actually would happen? I mean, not that it's going to happen, but let's say what would happen? Well, you have millions and millions of people who have skins. And that means that thousands and thousands of companies are going to start making businesses that use those skins in their own games, which basically gives more value to the ownership of these skins and creates more sort of infrastructure and ecosystems around it. So for instance, Fortnite might never do a fashion week, but someone else can open up Fortnite Fashion Week. And basically people could just bring in their skins and sort of dance around and show their cool stuff and whatever, right? And that would be an experience that sits entirely outside of Fortnite, but offers so much value to the users of self, not just through the experiences, but also through the sort of demand of these skins and the value of these skins, whatever that comes from. So that's the first part, right, which we're on that. But the second part is around how do you ensure that this ownership of these assets and items are actually one that can't be governed by a central organization, because in this case, the producer of the skins at the end of the day, is still a central organization. They're the ones who basically pushing out content and say, oh, my goodness, we're making all this money with skins. Guess what? Let's make more skins. And then so they just inflate the ecosystem. Surprise, surprise, right? Which is why gaming systems and gaming economies always are inflationary. They're not true economies, right? Your skins that you bought today or the items you bought today are worth nothing in the future, because if they think that they can make more money on it, they'll just push the button and boom, right? I mean, it's perhaps even more egregious than the Federal Reserve, but that doesn't really matter because they're not necessarily a financial ecosystem in the current construct. Now, this is where dows come in. And this is where essentially ownership of these sort of control of the supply, control of the ecosystem goes into the hands of the very users that own it. In other words, this is where we have sort of a democratic system in play in the same way that as much as we find that the democracies are out of the world, like the US might be a little messy, there are many things you can change without due process, right? I can't just take away your stuff without sort of, you know, a legal structure. I can't change the laws or the Constitution without going through the House and the Senate and the President, right? There are things that ensure that our liberties are protected and who elects these people that make these laws that people do. And so the Dallas function and the similar function were the assets and services or the products that are being produced are being protected. So imagine if, you know, the Fortnite skins were actually under the governance of a Dow, where the very players and users who benefit from it get to decide what happens with it, they will have to then balance the equation between, oh, we need to perhaps increase supply to bring in more customers, but to protect our value, we need to basically sort of, you know, decide what that supply might look like. And the entire community gets to decide and vote on it and or and or elect a delicate representative that's going to say what they should or shouldn't do versus a central organization that says, I'm just going to make some more because I make money. And so this is the other thing about Web 3. Web 3 is about aligning incentives. The incentive alignment is one that's healthy because both the user and the owner and the platform and the service provider, they all basically have a stake in it. As opposed to in Web 2, really only the platform and its shareholders have a stake in it. Everyone else doesn't. So the customers are really just consumers to be extracted from because they have no they have no stake and they have no take in it. Got it. That's a pretty good breakdown. So that would, so it would lead me to my, one of my, our next question, almost our last one, which is this, if, I mean, it makes sense to me, it makes sense to a lot of people, but if they're so important, then why are the gamers, everything that I see on Twitter, which if you haven't checked out Twitter, it's a very nice, calm place. But when you go there, it's nothing but like NFTs are the worst things of all time and it's just awful. And this is the kind of response that I get from the gamers around here. So if it's so important, why do we get this pushback? So first of all, I would say that gamers generally don't necessarily have a rejection of ownership per se. But what they think they do, and this is a very American narrative, and I'll get to that point very quickly, is that gamers are rejecting this idea that basically money can buy them things. Because if you think about the way that most Western games are designed today, they're designed in a very meritocratic and frankly, somewhat socialist way, I would say. In other words, you can, you know, through effort, you can get there, you have to pay a certain fee, you know, when free to play, by the way, came about a lot of gamers also hated that because they're like, wait, you know, if I'm playing the game for free and someone else pays money for it, does it mean he has an advantage? And so they have objections to this as well. Now, in Asia, though, that's very different. In Asia, people love NFTs. They actually are embracing it. The big game publishers like Square Enix and Krafton, the creators of PUBG and Netmarble and Netxnexon, all those big game companies are actually embracing NFTs, you know, you know, not just web three companies like ourselves, whereas in the West, in particular America, it's been broadly rejected. Now, we think the reason behind that, though, is a little deeper. I think there's a recent study that showed a pure research study that showed that most young Americans under the age of 30 are actually now leaning pro-socialists, which sort of indicates a little bit where the political leanings are between certain parties. Yeah, this idea, right, this idea that we could actually have a socialist agenda in America, even a decade ago would have been completely unthinkable, right? And here we are today, right? And, and I think this is this narrative plays into other areas in people's lives. Capitalism hasn't worked for most young Americans, you know, they don't see an opportunity. They look at billionaires as a fault in the system. They criticize capitalism because they think that that's basically almost futile in their construction. If you have money, you make more money, for instance. If I don't have money, I'm stuck, right? So now you translate this into a digital construct. What is crypto? It's not just NFTs, right? Those same people who don't like NFTs also don't like Bitcoin. Those are the people who basically think of crypto as a digital form of capitalism. They may not intellectualize it that way, but it's a feeling because when you see their reaction, it's not logical. The reaction isn't an intellectual response that counters it in a sort of calm and collected manner as one would do. It's emotional. It's fire, right? It's like it's, it's, it's, it's everything except being logical about it. And that comes to me that same feeling that people have with Wall Street, the people feeling of injustice. So what is, what is NFTs? It's another form of sort of capitalist injustice that they've experienced in the physical world that they don't want in the digital world. Does it mean that I'm going to be playing games and I have to suddenly spend $100,000? So I can, because that's the cost of a board aid, for instance. Does that mean that I have to, I can't enjoy my games, you know, for $10, I have to now spend thousands? That's what they fear. They don't understand that that's not what it means, but that's what they don't understand because most people, unfortunately, in the world are financially illiterate. They have a bank account, but they don't know nothing about financial literacy. And so for them, the way that Wall Street makes money or the way that people in crypto make money feels a little bit like dark magic. They don't get it. In Asia, it's different. Because in the last 30 to 40 years, Asian, the sort of countries and economies have broadly benefited from capitalism as a whole, close to billion people were lifted out of poverty in China. I mean, say what we will about China as a country. It is generally quite capitalist in its, in its perspective, right? You know, South Korea, 40 years ago, as this economy was smaller, had a smaller GDP than North Korea, because North Korea had natural resources. But the difference is one of them embraced property rights and went democratic. And the other one obviously clearly didn't. And North Korea is now the 12th or 13th largest GDP in the world. So in living memory, most people in Asia understand that capitalism has worked and provides hope and opportunity. So the perspective is that really in Asia, the American dream is probably more alive and well than it is in America for the time being, because capitalism has worked and that translates into, you know, this mainstream sort of general anti crypto feeling. Remember in America, it's not just, you know, we don't like NFTs is generally we don't like crypto. It's we think it comes from that lens. Well, that's very true. Well, to be fair about the the NFTs, a lot of a lot of some of the maximalists will also say the same thing about NFTs. They're like, you know what, I like this project, but I hate these NFTs because they're they're taken away from my main project, whatever that is. Correct. Yes. Well, you see this with Bitcoin and ordinals right now as well, right, which is like, which is history repeating itself because five years ago when cryptocurrencies came out and basically did the similar thing, you know, I think a lot of the sort of ethereum maximus were like, wait, hold a second, this is nonsense. You know, we don't need this. But you know, the thing is what NFTs do is they bring in culture and they actually bring an identity into into into a level that actually speaks meaning to most of us because for the maximalists, a lot of people are in this space because of, you know, the financial sort of efficiency, the financial reasoning behind it. And but but actually most people around the world don't live in financial terms. They need money to transact, but money is a means to an end. You know, for instance, you buy a house where you live or you you buy a car or you buy your clothes, not for pure utility. You buy it because it's self expression. You buy something because it means something to you individually as a form of culture. In fact, everything we purchased in the world today is culture. In fact, we wouldn't have, for instance, GPUs that are able to mine Bitcoin if it wasn't for the gaming community, which is digital culture. Well, that is true. And that would so that would lead me to my next point. So thank you for explaining to me and to my audience because I'm not doing a good enough job. So it comes onto this. The last one. Let's take a look at the portfolio because a lot of the a lot of the things that I take a look at is we're going to have a game. It's going to come out at some point for Web 3 and all of a sudden it's like, what happened to that game? Everybody got into it and all of a sudden it just didn't happen. So there's a there's a couple of things. Actually, I want to talk about this. This one is very interesting open campus. So open campus, you're going to democratize and allow educators to come on here and actually to get into the fray of NFTs and actually make things happen. Then there's there's two things you have different products. You've got your blockchain projects and your primary game projects. Here's the primary games and here's the blockchain project. So just kind of take us through these three things and tell us how that all works out. And then we'll get to the very last question of what do you think is going to be the next big hit? Right. So broadly speaking, I mean, that's that's a lot of topics, but broadly speaking, maybe the way that I would just sort of encompass the philosophy of animal brands is that we believe in this thing called the shared network event. And we think this is possible in web three. We think web three is inherently anti monopolistic, meaning that because our data is now on chain, and now it's public, it's a public good, we're not able to sort of interact and create interoperability across multiple systems, meaning that there shouldn't be one thing as one mega sort of marketplace. We've seen this with open C, right? Open C was the big marketplace, but now you have competition. But why do you have competition? Because your data layer is open. You can attract customers. You can, you know what they want and what they do, and therefore you can create better experiences. It's actually better for the end user to be in web three than to be in web two. And you have to constantly be sort of, you know, ready for that. So the other thing, of course, as I said about aligning incentives, is that there's a big area of the incentive pool that is completely unaligned in the current world, especially in web two, which is the creators, right? So when you start incorporating creators into the equation, they actually create more value. They create the network effects. These network effects, essentially, then came to snowball. We've seen this in things like YouTube, for instance, right? You know, YouTube, of course, farmed most of its value, but they had to share it with their creators. But at the end of the day, you know, if people weren't uploading content onto YouTube, there'd be no YouTube, right? Nobody would watch it, right? And what do most people now look at YouTube for? Educational content, actually. So education is actually a $5 trillion space. The reason why we started focusing on education as well is because we think of it as two ways. One, it's mass adoption. We have to educate the teachers about crypto. And if teachers can make money in crypto, they can make value with digital assets by creating their NFTs as learning content, which they can then generate some content and yield, which they've started doing. Some of the teachers are making literally a year or a year and a half worth of their annual salary as a teacher, basically making NFTs now. You know, this to us is a wonderful narrative, not just for the industry, but also demonstrates the value when you create real value to creators, which we want to do. In fact, all of us would love to find a way to pay more money to teachers because we think they're important, but there just hasn't been a framework to do so until basically Web 3 and blockchain. And so gaming is similar in the sense that we think of gaming as another mass adoption pool, because we're already spending, you know, $100 billion on these digital virtual goods inside games, but they have, you know, we don't own it. And so it makes sense to basically translate that into that to us to have a form of ownership of these digital games and goods. And that's basically in the form of sort of game items and assets. And so we do two things. We make our own games with our own studios. We have some games coming out that support the board ecosystem as well, you know, like you go labs and we have also racing games. But we also invest, we have also separately from our own games over 140 game investments that we've done third party to help sort of bootstrap that ecosystem and go back to this thing about the shared network effect, meaning that if a game does well, no matter where that game sits, whether it's our game or someone else's game, it essentially lifts the entire ecosystem, right? Because what happens is that people can make money in one game or create value in this game. They can port, they can have portability or someone create products and services for the assets for that game, for instance. Like I find, for instance, that there was a missed opportunity with Axie or missed opportunity with NBA Topshop. When they became as big as they were, they basically tried an initial to, and both of these are our portfolios. So we think the world of them, but there were missed opportunity was because their ecosystems and blockchains weren't ready to be open yet. They were permissioned, right? So Flow and Ronin were permissioned. So people couldn't just sort of take advantage of the network effects that Axie or NBA Topshop had at the time. And so they weren't able to build freely on it. And so when the ecosystems were as big as they were, they couldn't compound these network effects and had to rely solely on their own game to make it big, which isn't really how this works. So instead, when the ecosystem grows a certain size, thousands of companies compose experiences, and then you own an Axie or one of these NFTs because of the benefit of everything else that's generated. And we've seen this effect of things like LAN on Sandbox and with Ubalabs's board apes, for instance, where they've become sort of the leaders in the space because you can build network effects and experiences on top of the ownership of other people's board apes. And because it's on the Ethereum and therefore doesn't have any of the permissioned issues. Gotcha. That's a big answer condensed very simply. Thank you. Yeah. So this will lead me to my last, last question, which is this. In the very beginning, you guys had a big hit called Poetry Petzalon. Very simple game. Pretty Petzalon. Pretty Petzalon. Pretty Petzalon. And it was a long time ago. It was like when things were just kind of coming out, kind of like how Web3 is right now. So 2011. So I think I had a flip phone back then. So that would lead me to the last part, which is this. What do you think is going to be the next big thing? Is it going to be like a Web2 to Web3, like a Flappy or something like an Angry Birds, or is it going to be like a AAA ranked game like from Gunzilla off the grid? Which is going to be the next big monster hit in your opinion and why? Okay. So first of all, on the gaming side, we think it's going to be a combination of all of them. The reason why we think it's a combination of all of them because they segmented different gamers. Unlike the Web2 mobile phone, smartphone adoption era, we were limited by the hardware. Meaning the experience was you weren't able to make a game better than Angry Birds or better than Flappy Birds in the beginning before we ended up getting to sort of Clash Royale and those type of experiences because the fact that the physical device was limited in its construction and its ability and its speed. But we don't have that issue today. We've got very powerful smartphones. We've got very powerful GPUs. We've got great gaming gears. So that means from an addressing standpoint, I think the acceleration in terms of adoption is faster because you have a 3.2 to 3.4 billion dollar as a user addressable market that's already sitting there right there, willing to basically experience a better meta layer of a game, in this case, which comes from ownership. So that's the first point. But what is the barrier? To us, the barrier isn't actually the game itself. Of the 140 games, most of them are going to launch in the next two years. Many of them will actually come out at the end of this year or next year. And the quality of these games are amazing. And they're all going to create some adoption. More importantly, a successful Web3 game doesn't need millions of users. It's okay for hundreds of thousands of users to be sustainable. So they can be a sustainable ecosystem, which again, in Web2, when gaming is impossible, unless you have 10 million users, the game is just not going to work. So in that sense, again, there's going to be sustainable, small games, medium games, and then some very large breakout hits that basically draw in large audiences. So we think that's going to happen. But the difference between true Web2 to Web3 onboarding is financial literacy. In other words, we onboarded over 20 million wallets between our various sort of products. But the conversion, the true Web3 conversion remains very small. And the reason why is because just because you give someone a wallet and you make it easy for them, and it's custodial and it seems straightforward, they still don't know what to do with it because they don't know anything about financial literacy. They don't invest in real money in stocks, for instance, they don't understand compound interest, but they don't know this. And in our little bubble of Web3, we think everyone should know this. But then you step out and you say, wait a second, they don't even know this. So how do we expect them to understand it? So part of our job as an institution and as an industry, we need to basically be aware of the fact that most of the world, 95 plus percent, are actually financially illiterate. They think a bank account includes them in the financial world. And we know that's not true at all. And the same effect was when I was speaking at TED. I was the only Web3 talk in April. And what happened was a handful of us came over and they were excited that we could talk about Web3. But the vast majority thought that the metaverse was Facebook. And again, they thought it was meta. And in our world of crypto and Web3, we're just like, ah, Facebook, metaverse. Yeah, keep trying. And the problem is that in our reality, we acknowledge that it's not, but in other people's reality, it is absolutely the metaverse. So when the metaverse is failing, even though it's not, they think it's because Facebook is failing with the efforts on the metaverse. And so I guess for us, really the message is that we're in this bubble of our own world of financial literacy. We are financially more aware and we think the whole world knows this and they don't. So we need to go and teach that to people. And when we make games, what we're now doing is we're trying to introduce. And that's also why we're focusing on education. We introduce people around more financial literacy, making them more financially educated, because then they understand why ownership matters. It's just the other thing. But if you understood, for instance, the value of our democracies, we wouldn't have barely 50% turnout or voter turnout. So it's the same thing. We have to keep pushing and driving it. And financial literacy is so, so sparse that we have to, we just have to put my effort into it. And then I think the onboarding to Web3 will become more smoother as we've witnessed ourselves. Excellent. Well, yeah, you have said a lot of information in a very short amount of time. So first of all, thank you for stopping by. We appreciate it. Everybody for watching the video, there's different interviews that I'm going to link in the description below, also for Anamoka brands. And you can take a look at what they're doing. But yeah, again, I couldn't do this without you because I'm not explaining it correctly. So thank you for stopping by the show. Thank you for having me. It's been a real pleasure. All right, everybody, let's jump back. Okay. So once again, I want to say thanks to Yatsu for stopping by. I think that was a heck of a lot of information I just, and I've got to tell you there's nobody better, I think that explains NFTs and what's going to happen as far as digital property rights moving into the future. And lastly, I just want to give everybody a little bit of insight. And that is, we didn't talk about this, but there was a piece about, I don't know, a three weeks ago or so where it talks about how Hong Kong sets up a task force for Web 3 development. Hong Kong wants to be a Web 3 hub financial secretary Paul Chan said. And coincidentally, you know who's going to be on that council? Yatsu. And this was from Anamoka Brands as he was appointed a Hong Kong task force on promoting Web 3 development. So I think that maybe Yat might know a little bit about what's going on in the Asian markets, Web 3 developments and blockchain tech. And that's it for today. So look, if you've liked today's video, give it a thumbs up, consider subscribing. I don't care where you get the information, a lot of things are going to move pretty fast. So it's imperative that you get your information from somebody somewhere. That's it for today. So thanks so much for stopping by. I do appreciate it and I'll see you on the next one.