 If you want a business that works, you're going to have to have clients, right? And to have clients, you need to be able to find them and talk with them in a way that they will actually want to work with you. Some people call this sales conversations, and some people call this enrollment conversations. Well, in today's video, I'm going to be interviewing an enrollment wizard, okay? He's really good at enrollment and he's good at teaching people, training people, helping people to do it effectively. And what's great about, he's not just a sales guy, he's somebody that I can really trust and align with in terms of marketing and sales values. So his name is Jeremy Blanchard, some of you probably know about him. He stands for marketing and enrollment that helps both parties be more clear, be more empowered, energized, and just feeling good after valuing the relationship more than the transaction. And Jeremy's been coaching for eight years and he is actually the director of enrollment for a coaching school called the Academy of Coaching Excellence. And he himself is now running a separate program that is called the Enrollment Bootcamp, which is really an intimate program of 10 to 20 people that helps the participants actually do it, actually find the clients that they want to work with and have empowering and authentic enrollment conversations with them. So I'm really excited to talk with Jeremy today. Jeremy, thank you so much for being here and having this conversation. Well, thank you, George. It's just, you know, I've been a fan of yours and a buddy of yours for a while now. And it's just a privilege to get to share some of what I do with your audience and, you know, my intent and desire that it just be of service, however it can be for folks. Totally, totally, yeah. And I'll put links to your Facebook and anywhere in your website, you know, however people can get lots of additional tips and, you know, value from you. So, you know, the first question I have is, you know, you've worked with a lot of people on this enrollment thing. And why do you think, you know, coaches, I mean, you work with a lot of coaches who are heart-centered, relationship-focused people. So why is it so hard for them to have the enrollment conversation? That's such a good question, such a good question. One of the things that I've noticed so much, you know, what really breaks my heart is seeing so many coaches out there who are having a hard time with enrollment. And I see so many, I know you see this too, so many coaches who have one or two or three or four clients and they maybe even went through great training and they're out there and they really wish they had a full practice, but they don't yet. And a lot of people graduate from whatever training they got and think, well, where are all the clients? You know, I'm well trained. I should have a business now, right? And for me, it's seeing, and I know you see this too, that at least 50% of it is whatever skill you bring, and then there's this whole other 50% that's the marketing and enrollment skills. And when you, I really suggest when people adopt that view, they then learn to level up both, not just their skill as a provider, but as a business owner. And for me, one of the biggest things that I see getting in people's way of having successful enrollment conversations is that they're worried they're going to be salesy, right? You know, it just comes across all the time, they're going to be the used car salesman, and they think that their role is to get someone to enroll. My, the purpose of this conversation is for me to get you to say yes to working with me. And then nobody wants to have that conversation. Why would you? I don't want to have that conversation. And then that kind of like, I notice a trickle where a trickle effect or a ripple of that, that then they don't want to do the outreach for prospective clients because they know it's going to lead to this conversation that they're dreading. That's a really good point. So there's a kind of a subconscious block of doing more outreach because the actual conversation is not enjoyable. I totally agree with you because when I come to this conversation and regardless of what you want, my job is to get you to pay me and sign up. Then it's, yeah, this is why coach is dreaded because it's no longer about the relationship. Exactly. So how, like, what's the, what's the core idea here that you train or help people to do? I mean, okay, yeah, you still need to have the conversation. Yeah. So how does it become clear and empowering? Yeah, yeah, great question. So, you know, a couple pieces about that. One is that what I've noticed, there's so many great methods out there. You teach so many great methods for marketing, content marketing, you know, your whole business framework. There's so many great methods out there. And one of the things I've noticed is that there's this particular period in the liftoff of a business that I think is really important when you're still relying on some other source of income and you're in that liftoff period. And there are certain questions that are different in that liftoff period that are different later in your business. When you're in that liftoff period, it's very sometimes hard to ask more deep questions about who is my ideal client and who is my audience. And questions that I think are really lifelong questions for the life of the business. It's like, you're just trying to get your first few clients. So one of the things I've found that I just love is helping people through that liftoff period and there and really focusing on what are the few activities that are most useful to get you a financial foundation. Because once you have a financial foundation and it's more closer to your full-time gig, then you can go, oh, well, let me make a great website and let me figure out Facebook ads like you're an expert at and let me do all this. But before then, it's like, I barely have three clients. How am I going to spend enough time to figure out this question? So that's kind of piece one for me is helping people through that foundation and the way that I think helps when they're having those enrollment conversations is taking the attention off of, how do I get this person to sign up with me? Because you're gonna ask manipulative questions, just like you notice in manipulative marketing. It's like, how do I get the conversion? It's kind of the same thing, but in a one-to-one interaction instead of in a marketing context. And if you shift your attention away from that, there's two questions that I find super useful that we can kind of dig into a little bit together if you want. The very first question is, what does this person really want in their life next? And it's important to see that that may have nothing to do with what I offer. It may because they got on the phone with me. So there's probably some level of interest or alignment with what I offer, but it may not have anything to do with me. And I'm going into that conversation seeing I'm not attached to it being anything about what I offer, but I'm very, very, very interested in what are they actually looking for? You know, are they actually looking for consultants? Or are they actually looking for healing? Or are they actually looking for coaching? And in my kind of coaching and my, what I most love to contribute. And if I'm just not attached and really seeking out what is their vision? What is their vision? Let me give rise to that thing that when I hear them talk about it, they light up, then we've got something to really work with. So that's question number one. And then question number two, and happy to go into these more, is it a great fit for us to work together? And if I could offer coaches anything, it were just those two questions. I find that if you keep your attention on those questions, you don't need a sales script and you don't need all this, you know, fancy language that's gonna ask just the right thing at just the right time. But if I'm just asking myself, well, is it a great fit for us to work together? I'm naturally gonna, the first beginning of the conversation is gonna be, well, what would I need to find out from this person so that I could help them and me see? If it's a good fit for us to work together. And it also naturally allows for the possibility that it's not a good fit for us to work together. So I naturally stop trying to make it a good fit, but just checking out together. Do I see it's a good fit? And then giving them what they need to make a choice for themselves. Well, do you see it's a good fit? And it becomes a real partnership in that way. I love that, yeah. Yeah, I recently have been talking more and more about how I love to see marketing as friendship. Yeah. And it feels great because if I'm trying to just build a friendship with my audience, then I'm not gonna shove something down their throat because it's not what you do to friends. You create together. Hey, what do you want to do today together? You know? Let's figure it out rather than, hey, I'll come with a plan and you're gonna do this and you're gonna. So this is great. And we could talk all day long about these two questions. I want to back up one step and I'm wondering, I'm kind of channeling this, the person watching this who is saying, okay, Jeremy, so what happens if I'm not sure I have people to talk to? And so yeah, how do you, how much, how might you address that concern? Yeah, in other words, where do I find people to talk to? How do I get them on the phone or not get them on the phone? I would love to finally be, you know, be on the phone, be on a person, meeting or whatever with somebody, but how does that work? Yeah, yeah, great question. So the way, again, so my focus has always been on how do I support people in that lift off period and that's such an important initial building period of their business. And what I found is for coaches and everything I'm saying for coaches applies to other service-based entrepreneurs as well. It's just my focus has been on coaches. Referrals has been what I found to be just the most reliable way. And you know, I know for you, relationship is so important for me. Relationship is so important when building a business. And of all the ways to find prospective clients who might be a fit to work together that you would have an enrollment conversation with, referrals is the one that takes the least overhead. In other words, it takes the least building up. I don't have to figure out a system. I just have to call someone in my network who already trusts me and say, hey, do you know anyone who might be XYZ? You know, might have these challenges or these desires. And would you like to connect me with them? Just because. And there's naturally a trust bridge that's created. So the person who gets in touch with you, though they may not have heard of you before, and though it may be the beginning of a relationship, there's a much higher likelihood that they're willing to say, okay, cool. You know, I don't know you, but because we both know so and so, I could see us doing great work together. And I'm not so worried about whether this is, you know, something I need to worry about. So referrals, it has that benefit. It doesn't require a lot of overhead. And it also has the benefit of being very iterative, which is so important at the beginning of a business. So for example, if I'm trying to figure out what my website is supposed to say at the beginning of my journey, I'm gonna spend a lot of time writing the copy and rewriting the copy and rewriting the copy. But maybe this is my first, you know, first client, my fifth client, my 20th client, you know, I haven't worked with that many people. Referrals are really great because I get to have a referral conversation with one friend, practice one way of saying it. The next day I can have a referral conversation with another friend. You know what, oh, I kind of learned something about what made sense to that friend or what didn't make sense. Let me try a slightly different way of talking about what I do, who I serve, what those people's dreams are. And you get to practice and practice and practice and practice. And then, you know, over the course of six or nine months of doing this, which is, you know, how long I work with folks in the program, you've really practiced it a whole bunch. And then you've got your foundation of clients, your financial foundation, and then when it's time to go build and have other marketing methods like the ones you teach, it's, you really, you'll understand your clients a lot better and how to talk about what you do a lot better naturally, not through, you know, wordsmithing to death. That's, oh my God, it's so true. I mean, I think so many people believe that they can, like you said, wordsmith their way to, you know, be in touch with the market. But when you're wordsmithing or even if you hire a copywriter, whatever it may be, you're still your own brain or your own mind and one person's other's mail. A lot of people do it on their own or they don't, I personally don't like, I haven't had a good experience with copywriters because it's just not my voice. So I really like that this is, the clarity is happening through conversation. So, all right. And one thing I like what you just said about calling up a, someone you never record, you know, probably emailing, emailing, I guess, right? Or private, you know, Facebook messaging or something like that. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, is that the person that you're contacting might themselves be in need of what you're all in. And so it's actually kind of a low pressure way to say, hey, you know, I, do you say, hey, I've started a business or I'm looking for more clients or do you like to put that in as part of the conversation? I do, I do. You know, I've thought of lots of different ways of doing it. I tried lots of different ways of doing it. And I find one of my core principles in how I teach authentic enrollment is just tell the truth. You know, it seems pretty straightforward. But it's amazing when you put that principle or all these other ideas about other stuff you could do or something like become clear, like, oh, well, that's not the truth. And if right now I'm focusing on building my business and I know I want to do it through referrals, the way to do that authentically isn't to say, hey, let's just call this friends and we're just having a phone call and then slip something in about your business. Like, no, that's not genuine. But I think it's absolutely okay to have a conversation with a friend about your business. As long as you're being very clear, hey, would you like to have a conversation about how you could support me to build my business? And you're telling the truth. And then, you know, I restart those conversations about how you're doing, you know, checking in on a personal level because they're someone who's important to me. And then, but it's already clear by the time they get on the phone, it's not a trick of any kind. And then you don't have to worry either because you already know they said yes, so you're not building up to the question that you're scared to ask. It's like, oh, for me, I'll usually just send a text saying, hey, you may have seen on Facebook, I'm starting this business, you know, it's very exciting to me. I'd love to chat with you. I know you know a lot of people who are the kind of people that I'd love to work with and I'd love your support. Would you be willing to hop on the phone and talk about how you might build a support me in this business building time that I'm in? It's really important and kind of, no, I'll be usually pretty vulnerable with them. I'm so a little nerve wracking to be building a business. And people are very responsive, I found, when you're just straightforward in that way. Yeah, that's a really great, great tip. And so these kinds of contacts will lead to, you know, people see seeing you on email or giving you someone's contact info and say, oh yeah, tell them, you know, George sent you or whatever. And then, do you find that it's, you know, kind of getting into that call or meeting with the referred person? Any tips on that, any, is it challenging to make that happen? Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good question. And my thinking on this has evolved a lot in the last 12 months or so. I used to suggest, oh, well, if they're interested, if you know someone who's interested, could you just be CCS on an email or CCS on an email rather? And I found that that doesn't work so well because there's not permission from that person to, and this is again, a part of the authentic approach to it. It's like, well, if we want high conversions, sure CC me on an email and I'll follow up 14 times and maybe some of those will work. High annoyance also. Yeah, high annoyance, exactly. However, I find about, I think about a year ago, my thinking on this shifted, it was like, you know, I notice all the people in coaching and training around enrollment, a lot of them get really worried about asking people to do that CC. And I used to think, oh, I just need to coach them past that worry. And it's like, no, it's actually kind of a legitimate worry. And a lot of the referrers were worried too. They were like, I don't really want to make this connection. And I eventually kind of took the feedback. I was like, that's true. I don't know if I would want to be introduced to someone and then get a whole bunch of follow-ups. And it's like, well, let me take the wisdom of what they're saying. And the way I suggest it now is actually, you know what I call it, double opt-in. Where the referer asks the person, would you like to be connected? Here's the bottom line. It can even just be by text. It doesn't have to be through a big email with a bunch of explanation of who this person serves. But it can just be, hey, I've got a friend who's a coach. I have the thought that you two might really be great together. Could I introduce you by email? They can do it in person by phone, by text, by email, whatever. And then once they get permission from that person, then making the connection. The result is you get fewer connections than you might have if you didn't do the double opt-in. It takes more energy for the referer. And it might take a little more follow-up on your part to talk to the referer and support them like, hey, did you remember to check in with so-and-so? But just the alternative isn't worth it. It's not worth it to try and force a connection. And it also allows everyone to be more at ease. Once you know that person wants to be in contact with you, it's like, great, let's talk. Yeah, I love that you are teaching this and helping people with that because I totally agree. Because as somebody who has been the person that people want to connect with, it's like, thank you for asking my permission first. And in fact, I even like it when somebody says, hey, George, I thought of a friend who, because of what you've said or because of our relationship, I know that you would really appreciate this person. It's great to get a link to their website if they have one or their LinkedIn profile or their Facebook profile. I mean, whatever it is, something. It's like, oh yeah, you're right. I'm glad, because I haven't been looking for someone like that. I have clients who are looking for someone like this. So thank you. And so it is, it's like when, like this whole entire process, we have to remember, right? Like it's about helping people. Yeah. Like that's what we're here to do. Like there are people who need help over here. And then there's your friend, who may actually need to help too. And then there's you who's like, would love to help people. And it's like, well, let's make this happen. It's a true win-win all around. Yeah, yeah. So anything else you've noticed? I mean, as you've been coaching and helping so many people with this, any other surprises or yeah, any other tips that have come to you in recent months or impacts? Yeah. Well, for me, it's one of the things that I have loved about supporting people in this area. You know, it used to just be, I would support friends. You know, I know tons of coaches because I work for a coach training program. So it used to be my friends would just come to me and my peers in this program would come to me and say, Jeremy, I know you're really good with this enrollment stuff. You know, tell me and I would just kind of give them tips. And I'd say, oh, call me anytime. And at some point I remember sitting on the couch with a couple, a bunch of coach buddies. And one of them was like, Jeremy, like, why don't you just run a program about this? Like I want to learn this from you. And I was like, oh my gosh, duh. Like, you know, it's much better, much more effective for them. And the reason I bring that up in response to your question is because one of the things I found is that the journey to be successful with enrollment isn't tips and tools and systems and processes are good. And they're helpful handle holds to navigate going into that new territory of how do I enroll? How do I find prospective clients? But the thing that really makes the difference is having a community of support and having run this program now for like four years and supported people in other ways for longer than that. I just find over and over and over again that a community of support is almost like if I taught nothing about how to do enrollment. If I skipped all of my training content and all I did was bring a community together and do the coaching part that I do, I think that could have at least 50% of the results that people are getting because there's something really magical that happens. And you know, whether people come into my program or not, I think this is for your audience, I think the thing that's valuable is find a friend, find somebody or some kind of community of support that you can partner with who will be your success partner, who when you encounter those stopping points that are always gonna come up, you know, like, oh, I'm just so worried. I'm not going to enroll anybody. I'm about to talk myself out of it again. You have someone there to keep you going past that stopping point. Cause that's the biggest thing. The difference between people have a successful business and those who don't it has nothing to do with their skills of coach. It has somewhat to do with their skill of enrollment and marketing, but more so than anything, it has to do with their success skill in doing what they said they would do and going past the points where they would have stopped themselves as they extend to beyond familiar territory into the new territory of running a business and having the business be their main source of income. And so that like success team, success community or success buddy, I think is one of the biggest things. I'm glad you said that. Absolutely, because you can go online and read articles about sales all day long, but are you gonna do it? Exactly. Well, when you're in a community of people who are doing it, then you feel this energy like, oh well, gosh, so and so, they're doing me too. Well, let me try and then, oh gosh, well, if it didn't work, then I can come back to the community and get helped and supported by it or share a success story that encourages somebody else. I love that. You're facilitating this. So the program that you are, the container that you offer for this kind of support is called the enrollment boot camp, right? Got it, yep. Okay, so tell us about this. It's, you're still open for enrollment? Yes, I am. Yeah, we're just getting started right now. And if anyone, if your folks are interested, I'd be delighted to chat with them. It's a six month program and it's really an immersion program. It's a coach, it's a training program. It's a coaching program. You know, I'll be coaching you faster stopping points, but it's, I'm, I've thought about, you know, I could grow this to be a 50, 100 person program, but I really have no interest in that. I'd rather see 10 or 20 folks really have, you know, a financial foundation and a solid number of clients by the end of six, the six months of the program than see a hundred people all do a little bit of stuff with me. So it's an immersion and I partner with you and you join a community of support that all has a shared commitment and shared like momentum. It's kind of like the wind behind everyone's sails has everyone go further. So yeah, it's a very immersive program and I'd be delighted to chat with anyone who's interested. Yeah, and I think one of the, one of the gifts or learning experiences is just having that enrollment conversation with you. Yeah. And I think people, people would probably learn a lot just by experience. It's like, oh, how does Jeremy do it? You know? Does he touch the stuff? I'm curious how you... Oh, it's such a good point, you know. And just like I teach, it's my sole interest that people find the next best step for them, whether it's me or not. And I often have conversations that end, conversations about the enrollment bootcamp that end in saying, I really don't recommend you do this right now. You know, you only want to enroll a couple clients in the next period of time or you're really looking for a really specialized form of support. And I love referring people and that's why, you know, we're on the phone right now because I so often refer people to your work, either people in my program or people who aren't fit for my work because so often people are looking for content marketing support or building up their marketing principles, the way that you teach. So it's just, I'd like to get to talk to you, right? Yeah, absolutely. It's so great. And so anyway, I hope those watching this got some tips and encouragement. And if you have any comments or questions, leave them below. I'll make sure Jeremy sees it. And I'll also of course have the links to Jeremy's website. Yeah, and the other link real quick that we can offer folks is I have a 90-minute intro webinar that goes over all the principles that I'm talking about in a really step-by-step organized way. It's free and I just love your folks to have a chance to check it out if they want to deepen their income. That's great. Thank you so much for that. Yeah. All right, well, Jeremy, thank you for what you do and thanks for sharing your tips today. Yeah, well, thank you, George. I'm honored to get to chat with you because I just so respect your stand for authentic marketing and your whole journey that led you here and everything that happened before you got here. And there's a few people I ever refer people to because there's so few people who are values aligned to the way we are. So just thank you for being a stand. Thank you so much. All right, enjoy connecting with Jeremy, folks. All right, thanks, Jeremy. Thanks.