 Boom, what's up everyone? Welcome to Simulation. I'm your host, Alan Sokian. Very excited to be talking about peace technology. We have Jinxia, new joining us on the show. Hello. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on Jinxia. Very excited to talk about, especially your new book, Peace Tech. Super excited. Thank you. Thank you. And for those that don't know Jinxia's background, Jinxia is a journalist and an author. You can find Jinxia's links below Jinxiannew.com as well as the Amazon book link, so do check those out. Okay, Jinxia, let's start with understanding who you are, where you were born. You're born in Jinxia, in the Henan province in China, grew up in a city about two hours outside of there. You were telling me that you guys make all your food, make all your clothes, all this cool stuff. So teach us about where you're born. Yes. So it is a very remote mountain area where I grew up with, but it's so beautiful, and people there live very simple, very simple, even very hard working life, but very happy. So we do have a lot of activities just in the nature. And I think that's why after I grew up I would keep looking for the same thing, you know. It's just harmony with nature and with people surrounding you. And that's what I have when I grow up and I just think it's great and everyone should have that. And I think it's also related to, you know, later I'm writing a book and later I become a Buddhist. So it's the same thing in my heart. So I want to have that and I want to share that kind of simple but happy life. Yes. Yes. And this is so important when we look at immersion into nature and living in harmony with our planet is one of the most important things in each other, in harmony with each other for being able to have peace on this planet together. And it makes total sense that you ended up picking up the Buddhism as well, growing up in nature. So what was it like then, did you end up partaking a lot in the growing food and making clothes yourself too? Or what was it like with the fellow people that you grew up with? Everyone is just farmers, you know, because you have to live on your own hands. So the first thing is you plant all the vegetables, all the wheat, corns and all the fruits, vegetables, everything you need. And then, you know, after you feed your whole family, if you have other time, then you can maybe do some extra work, like, you know, you can do some dancing, music, right? But primary thing is everyone is a peasant and happy peasant. So in my childhood, what I do, my playing ground is a creek, is a mountain. I hike in, I pick flowers, I choose the beautiful stones in the river, I try to catch fishes, you know, that's all my choice and all my pleasure. So it is very difficult in a way that even as a child, I have to work in the field. Yeah, you indicated if someone is planting the food, they have to spend time farming the food every day, making sure that it's growing well, and then you can go do everything else. But here everything's at supermarket. Yes, yes, here, yes, that's the thing, when I get out of my mountain and I realize that people in the city, they know nothing about where the food come from, where they're acceptable, where the food come from, and they just, you know, they ask them, they will say the same answer, they come from safe way, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, go to, going to farmer's markets is very nice, because then you can at least ask the question where is your farm connected in a different way, but actually going and planting the food, and so that's interesting that you had that, and playing in the creek as well, connecting in nature, these types of activities, they're so important for development of your spirit, really, in the world, and I'm glad you had that growing up. And then how about picking up your interests in journalism and writing? How did you pick those up when you were younger? Well, I was always very into writing when I was very young. I think one important factor is, you know, when you grow up in nature, that nature itself, nature mother itself, it gives you lots of inspirations, the beauty itself, because sometimes you look at the sunset, a mountain there, it is a poem itself. And sometimes, you know, you feel, you felt like there's so many stories behind all these things, and you heard these legend stories from, from my grandma, from my neighbors, so these stories on all these beauty, they just keep me, keep writing. I just, I just keep writing all the time, and then when I went to university, I was like, wow, there's a major called journalism. You can literally living by writing and by, you know, traveling, good talking to people. I think it's fascinating, so yeah, that's why I then, of course, I graduated a master of journalism and communication, and then I become journalist, senior journalist, and keep working, and then I keep and start writing books, you know, it's just writing is what I've been doing all my life. And then this is so beautiful, you said that the, even the sun and the moon and the horizon and sunset, sunrise, all these things, flowers going from the ground trees, they're poems. They are, they are, and you know that every time you pass by, even the same view, even they didn't say anything, the mountain itself, the river itself, it feels like an old friend, it feels like it wants to tell you something, so you just, you know, it just naturally blend into the inspiration nature gives you. Yes, yes, see, it seems like a young person growing up in a metropolis in the heart of the city doesn't have access to the same, the same, because of light pollution, you don't get to see the stars, because you don't grow food, you don't get to, you don't get to play in the creek or learn how to talk, to learn from the mountain or see the sun, all these types of things, so it's a big disconnection from where we come from, from nature. Yes, yes, that's actually, I think it's really a pity, it's really, nowadays, you know, kids grow up in the city, they grow up with kingdom and, you know, computers and TV set, they were really, they forgot that to connect with nature, it's part of who we are. Yes, yes, and a lot of why we have so many of the issues in our world is because we lost that connection to nature. Okay, and then, so it was, it was Nanjing Normal University was where you did the journalism communication, and then senior journalism for about six years or so in China. Now, what is it like being a journal, what topics were you covering, were you covering in China? I'm mainly covering business and technology, sometimes financial, but you know, it's all related. So what I, where I'm working, Zhejiang province, it's a very unique province in China. I can say it's, it's our richest province in China. The entrepreneurs, the staff there, they're very active. So, and I do learn a lot from them, and I felt some very inspiring and they're also very hardworking. The famous one, like Jack Ma is one, one of the judge entrepreneurs. So, yeah, and so you're writing a lot about the tech and entrepreneurship finance scene, this type of stuff, and then maybe give us some of the like ideas. Was it, was it's kind of similar to, in terms of like Silicon Valley, like in terms of tech advancements, is it kind of similar that people are kind of making software and hardware and trying to make things more smooth? That's a difference. So in China, manufacturing is still, it's still a big thing. So what I'm, what, what I'm working on is, you know, there's, of course, there's still like software, hardware, advanced technology. Of course, China is catching up very, you know, very, very rapidly. But the traditional manufacturing is still one pillow industry. And like we call smart factories, technologies we call smart factories. But before all the internet of things and cloud computing, before all these technologies, they're just factories, you know. So there's lots, lots of entrepreneurs, they're still working on traditional factories. But when this technology, all these technologies come, what they're challenging is they have to pick up quickly, they have to use them quickly, otherwise they're going to be lag behind. So that's a big difference, I think, compared with a second billion tech. Okay, okay. And then what was it then that brought you then to go and coming to the United States and wanting to write your first book, teaches about that? Yeah, so it's also related to, you know, I think from 2014 and 2015, the entrepreneurs in China, especially in Zhejiang province, they were just so eager to learn. That's the year when big data, when cloud computing, when internet of things, when AI, you know, later blocking, when all these technologies suddenly, you know, it's just overwhelming. And every day, I can feel the anxiety of the Chinese entrepreneurs. They were like, if I don't study today, I'm going to die tomorrow. So they put a lot of effort in studying this technology, they want to figure out what it is, how it's going to relate to my future. So I've been involved a lot in reporting such kind of, you know, use new technology to improve our industry, this kind of topic. And, of course, the most important question is everyone in China trying to figure out what is happening exactly with all this technology? What, where it comes from and where it's going to be? So with all, with these two main questions, and where I started collaboration with Kiero Skorofi, he's, you know, he's also a history of Silicon Valley, and he's cultural history, but he's also, he also has a very good insight of technology. That's why in 2016, we started our first collaboration in Q-Man, can't two point zero, a book, I'll talk about the trends of technologies. This is so interesting that when you take all these different fields like the Internet of Things and cloud computing, blockchain, AI, that when you take them and then you say that there are people that are watching that explosion of technology happening and then they say, okay, if I don't study this stuff, big data, if I don't study this stuff, I'm going to get left behind. So I have to study this stuff. I have to know how it's applying to our world today, how it's going to apply to our world, how I have to teach it to the kids, all this type of stuff. And so to write about it and then to explain that, you know, humans really are going to be much different. Like you were telling me, like half human, half robot, future. And so this sort of writing about us being reshaped by the emergence of all this technology, I think that's a very powerful first book. Thank you. Yes. Yes, that's mainly what we're talking about, you know, in HumanCamp 2.0. And actually that book also leads to why I started writing this piece of technology book. Yes, this just released. Yes, it just released this year, one month ago. So after collaboration with Piero Scorofi, finished the first book, HumanCamp 2.0, I realized one big question is, I was here interviewed Silicon Valley experts, entrepreneurs, scholars for two months. So every time I asked them, in the end, always one same question, what if this technology is used like, say, not properly? A weaponized Yes, you know, and who is going to be responsible for that? You know, wherever the people tell me how powerful it is, the bell tag, you know, like gene editing, AI, like, when I ask the same question to this, to these thinkers, experts, they tend to give me a same answer, like, technology is just a tool. Everyone says that same thing. Yeah, I wouldn't tell me it's just a tool, it depends on how you're going to use it. And that's it. And if you are good people, you can use a hammer to like say you can build a furniture, if you are bad people, you can use a hammer to kill someone. And that's not what we can control. But so I just not happy with this answer. Likewise. Yeah. And you are basically the people I interviewed, all I can say that there are the smartest people group of smartest people in this world in this, you know, biotech AI, they're all big names. So you're telling me this literally nothing we can do. And with all these powerful, even scary technology. So I'm not happy with that. And I want to explore, like, more answers, right? And then that's where I find peace innovation lab at Stanford. Yes. And what they are doing is actually, they're trying to find in a way there to try and find the answer. The you can tell from the name peace innovation. So they are trying to say, in Silicon Valley, technology can solve seems can solve all the problem. But, you know, in terms of create a peaceful society, a peaceful world, a better world, what exactly we can use technology for. So that's why it leads us to Pierre and I leads to this book, we start collaboration with peace innovation lab. It's been the same thing since I've been here, I've been asking the same questions. And it's why is it the main answer? I think it's because it gets people to get you away from them fastest. You know, just a tool, it can be used either good or bad. I know it feels like a standard answer. Yes. And I think it's, it's really difficult because, you know, actually, I love one scientist, he she she gave me she gave me a different answer. She said, you know what? Why you ask me? I'm a scientist. I know how to develop this technology. But how do you see it? Don't you think you should ask the, you know, everyone know who you know, don't you think it should like, it's you guys are using it. I'm not the one can tell you the principles and morality, you know. Oh my gosh, we need, yeah, philosophers and moral scientists, thinkers, yeah, we need them involved, ethicists involved as soon as possible. Yeah, Exactly. So after she gave me that answer, I think she's right. You know, why we give why we put all the pressure on scientists like scientists that have to answer all the questions. It's not fair. But it is true that the philosophers, everyone, you and him, and the kids in high school, everyone who are using technology should be responsible in answer the question, should be involved in answer this question. So and turn out it's very true to answer this question, it becomes like interdisciplinary project. It has to be. Yeah, yeah, this is probably one of the most important things that we can start doing is having young people start thinking about the complex philosophies and moralities and ethics around the exponential technologies, and then also to get those people, those people in those fields, philosophers, scientists, ethicists, moral scientists involved in AI creation and blockchain development and biotech, all these fields as soon as possible. I'm happy that you know you're driven to write this. Let's also explain how we need this is this is kind of what we're talking about with this technology for preventing and reducing conflict for increasing positive engagement between individuals groups and nations. Yes, so let's let's start unpacking some of the ways that we can let's define, let's define peace. Yes, so normally when we say peace, we actually only mean we don't have a wall, you know. So this kind of peace in academia, there's academic term called negative peace. It's like, I have peace with this table, I have peace with him with that wall. There's no wall, there's no conflict, but that's it. And there's obviously there's there's a different relationship like between you and me. We are not just no conflict, we are friends, we are, you know, we can collaborate to do a lot of things. So in this kind of peace, obviously it's more interesting and more valuable. So so we this kind of peace, it's kind of like positive engagement. So we call it positive peace. Yes. Yeah. So this is this this definition of peace is not like novel idea, you know, it was it was there decades ago. It's just now, when we look at in look at into this definition, we realize now it's a it's a world of technology. And in terms of working on peace, there is potentially a lot of new tools, new methods, you know, lots of things to explore. Yeah, I really like this definition because it almost seems like the the what we hear about peace is like you said, just, oh, there's not war. So it's kind of like neutral state of, oh, yeah, they they're over there. They do their thing. There's just, yeah, no conflict and stuff. But positive peace is, hey, I know you're there. I have, you know, deep love and desire to collaborate and we can explore collaboration. I think that's so beautifully said that if we can stretch ourselves to like positive peace worldwide, I think that's extremely powerful. And then also there is that doesn't mean no competition because competition is still good for getting ideas out there and all these types of things. So but positive ideas, positive collaboration, positive peace, I like that a lot. And then what about then measuring peace in the stories of specific applications of peace technology? How would we be able to measure it? Yeah, so about peace technology, so about this term, there's there's a few sentences I still want to say, you know, this term actually, I think it came out like 2015. There's there's one important principle I love a lot is when we talk about peace technology, what we are discussing is not about this technology is is powerful or not, it's good or not, good or bad or who should control it. China should control it. US should control it. It's not about all these. Peace technology fundamentally thing about it is it is something we should technology is something we should collaborate together to develop it, to use it, to get other people to use it, make sure this tool, this technology can benefit all of us. So this this principle I want to emphasize because you know that's a whole point of peace technology. And so because peace has, you know, negative teeth and positive peace, so peace technology naturally has two kinds of applications. One is you use technology to reduce conflicts or, you know, reduce or minimize conflicts or prevent, you know, you gave early alarms or conflicts. These all are on this conflict zone. So an example of like a negative peace technology could be something like developing military weaponry to observe other countries development of weaponry and this is stuff like that. Is that potential? Yeah, it is already a lot of this peace technology in working on, you know, reduce or prevent conflicts. For example, there's US API as United States or peace. So it was established in 1984, I believe. So they were working on this area long term, has a long history. In 2015, they established a lab for peace tech lab. So this like, for example, they have they sponsored, they helped, I'm not sure how much they sponsored, helped start up from Indian. What did they do? It's very simple. The three girls in Indian, they developed an app for the people, for the women living in, you know, that the terrible neighborhood like slum, you know, it's very simple. Whenever you sense danger, you can immediately click the app and it will say, it will send your location, your message, you know, like the thing you can set, advance to all your friends and families. Yes, you need help. Yes, you need help. This is very, very simple application. Positive peace technology? Yes, but it is peace technology because you are working on prevent and reduce a conflict. Okay, okay, okay, okay. I see, I see. And that's that's a really good example, right? That's a good example of, yeah. But then the other one is seems like one that sometimes governments around the world kind of justify their military development because, oh, there's so many threats around the world. And like there are actually, yes, some threats. And so there is some seems like there's some justification, but it feels like if we did what we talked about the beginning of just this connection deeper to nature, to source, to what, what sustains us all, we wouldn't need so many of the, we wouldn't need any of the military conflict. Yes, so about this, I want to give another example. So there's, there's a nonprofit organization called Peace Factory. So it was started 2012 in the Middle East. So when the war, when the war between Iran and Israel, Israel is going to, you know, start. And so everyone knows it's going to be a war. And of course, everyone is scared. And this Ronnie, he just, he, he simply posed, he just posed a picture of him. He's, he's a father, he's an engineer. And he just simply posted he and his daughter's picture together. And with, with a sentence, Israel, we, we love you, we will never bump your country. And with this picture, and then on Facebook, it sprites very quickly. And in the next morning, when he opened the Facebook page, he saw like a lot, a lot forward, lots of people crying, people really moved by it. And very rapidly, people volunteered to post such pictures to connect more people. Because one key point, like you just mentioned, every country has their needs, depends on security. When they acclaim a war, they will say, we have to do it because we have to protect our country, protect our people. But in reality is when you don't have any connections, when, when you don't even know who is your enemy, you only know from the TV, from the news. So what you, what you get is the people you are going to start a war is just someone like crazy, you know. You never even have sit down with a real person, you know, you call enemy to have a coffee or conversation with. So, so this Peace Factory, Peace Factory founder Ronny, he, he thought it's a huge problem. Then he used Facebook as a tool to connect people in the Middle East, to connect Iran and Israel, you know, connect people there and encourage people to have conversation, to connect it and to know each other better, to know that they're not just monsters, crazy people, through bonds to you. They are also like everyone else, their fathers and mothers, you know. Yes. Normal people, like everyone else, their kids also like our kids, you know, they smell, they want to go to school, the same thing. So that's, that's another example that you, even Facebook, you know, is such, such simple tool and you can use it to change something. Yes. To make difference. Yes. I love this example, the Peace Factory example. It can even do things like, like get, potentially even prevent war, prevent conflicts, if you get enough people. It's such an easy thing to do. This is a good potentially recommendation for those at home is to do something like take a picture of yourself, maybe with your loved one or whoever and take the picture and write in the caption or maybe take it with an image of another country and write, hey, like, I would love to meet someone from this country for coffee or tea and talk to you and get to know who you are and will never harm you, you know? Yeah. Stuff like that. I love that. That's a real good one. Yeah. So that, that is also, that is also later, this Ronnie, he reached to Peace Innovation Lab at Stanford and they, they were, together they were discussing how we can, you know, really use technology to build more connections and then better communication and then finally we build trust, we build cooperation and the beautiful thing is the moment I know you, the moment I cooperated with you, the chance that I will start a war with you, I kill you, is very, very low, right? Yes, yes, yes. Versus seeing over the internet the fear propaganda type thing and never meeting someone from that place in person. Yes. Heightened the chance of conflict. Yes, so it is very powerful in a way, you don't, you don't see people just as thumb, just thumb, just a big thumb, big enemies and you actually individual thumb, you see them one by one at just one person. Yeah. And it's then they will make it really difficult to say I want harm, I want you all just, you know, do something terrible to that person. Yeah. Yes, yes. And this was also mentioned on our episode with Tim Draper where he said that when you see people that are conflict across countries, it's usually just like presidents or the people that are running the countries as government officials and stuff like that, conflict across countries. But then he says I have so many friends in that country and we have such good friendships in that country and so that you got to always remember that, you know, really feel that that by making friends in other countries, those are the real ties, not the ones of the governments that are, that's all, a lot of that, it's just fear propaganda and so I like this one and I think that's a really good action item for people as to, I'm going to do it myself, I'm going to make a post myself about that. So I hope other people make those posts and hopefully have them liked and shared by other people. That's a really good one. Yeah, so that's why, you know, when I was writing this book, that's one important goal or say vision I'm expecting from this book because literally that technology is something is everywhere now and if you, if you ask a people you never know who have different religion, who speak the different language, right, a stranger, if you ask them to do something, a simple thing, it would be very difficult but if you ask them, hey, ask me Facebook friend or you know, oh, let's share a car, let's use unbnb, no problem, people can easily, with this technology they can actually connect it and do something together but without this technology if you try to do something with very different, you know, background, it's another story. So the Putin show, the beauty of technology today is it is actually more powerful than even religions than any like kings or, you know, popes in the history. So this is also the words from Peace Innovation Lab, the director Mark Nielsen. So he was telling me when I just met him, he was telling me like, I was, he said I'm so, so shocked when I see in 2009 that you know people, everyone just using Facebook, they volunteered to upload a lot of their personal details, pictures and they don't ask a pay back, you know, and everyone just volunteered to do the same thing and he was shocked, he said, he said, and also in a later he saw Twitter, he saw Uber and all these technology companies arise, right? He said who in this world can persuade so many people to do the same thing, you know, a court, you know, beyond all your language, your country, your religion difference, you're doing the same thing, you're speaking the same language by using the same tool, Facebook, Google, all these, you know, Uber, Amnib, the same tool. So this is very powerful but we just get used to it. The real important thing is, since it's everywhere it means everyone has a potential to use it to do something good with it. Yeah, and we, it was that, it seems like the technology being there for free, enhancing our lives was the reason why we all ran to go sign up for it and give away everything because we could freely enhance our lives, just needed connection to the internet and a computer. Yes. So let's, let's cover on a measuring piece, okay, okay. Yeah, so to marry a piece, you know, that's a very difficult issue, it's because, mainly because when we define piece as positive engagement, we first, the first thing we need is what we call data, we call piece data. So, because if you don't know what's the engagement between us is like, like how many times I meet you in one month, how many times when I meet you, did I hug you, did I give you eye contact, you know, all these small, small engagement, it matters. Yeah, it does matter. Yeah, if you, if you put a bunch of people in the room, it can be a small group, it can be a lot of people, then if you observe carefully, how they engage, you know, what's the, what's the engagement like, it, so you, if you have all these data, and then you can, of course, you can do something. So, the piece data, it's actually, there's already some specific application like mirror, mirror communication in teams, mirror innovation, measure, merit cooperation. So, in this book, we also get a lot inspiration from these different methods, from different teams. But what's the unique thing about mirror piece is, it related to so much more detail than just mirror innovation or trust or cooperation. It, it means all these engagement between you and me, between Pierrot, between him, all these engagement has to be mirrored, recorded first. Yes, yes. And when you mirror this data, there's not just a shake hands with you, a hug with you or not, a communicate with you or not. It's also, one important thing is, why, why I, you know, I, I just shake your hand, I'm not, I'm not casing you, right? The relationship between us is different. And the relationship between us is different is, we believe the PC innovation lab believe it's related to a lot to group identities. The group identity means like who you are. You, you must belong, somehow belong to a group. For, you belong to who you are. You are, you know, you are a host, you are, you, you are male, you are a writer, you are artist, you know. And everyone, the way you label yourself is one of your group and they didn't. When, and, and we believe in PC innovation lab, there's one concept that lots of conflicts, they arise is believe, is mostly because that our group identity, when I met you, I started knowing you, the first thing I noticed is how different you are. Like for example, I'm a Buddhist, why you are not Buddhist, you are like, you know, you are a weird religion and never heard of, when you're so different from me, you know, people, sometimes we all know, sometimes even you did nothing wrong, you just belong to a different group, people can already start suspecting, you know, like you are not one of us, you are one of them, you know. When they start, look at the difference, the different group identity between people, that's when the war starts arriving, you know, and it's versus human first and then then then there's, there's something like a peace index that can almost be measured between people, you can look at people and see how they react and you know, why are they only shaking hands instead of hugging, like you were indicating earlier, could if they hug and they hug for maybe like 30-second hug, long hug, maybe then, maybe that means there's a higher peace index, who knows, peace rating, measuring peace, yeah. Yes, so we do, we do want to mirror, you know, what the beauty thing about today's technology is they do enable us to capture all these engagements. We have all these sensors, cameras everywhere, right? If you want, you can easily record it, for example, if you have a team, you have a staff, four or ten, even twenty people working together, you can easily record when you have meetings, how everyone engaged, how you aren't speaking to each other, right? Yes, yes. So to record this feature is become feasible and the theory behind it, like what I just said, is that the conflict usually related to when I see a difference between you and me, when I see a different, what we call group additive, but on the other hand, that also means if I'm able to see more similarities, common things between you and me, and then maybe the relationship is going to change, you can see very common that when two people start knowing each other, oh, we're from the same town, which we share the, like the the same school or, you know, the same experience can suddenly make two people very close, right? So the, that gives, that gives the room for technology, how we can apply, how we can use technology to help people to find more things in common rather than things like you are just different, you know? I love this one, this one's so good, like you said it, you can approach someone and say, oh, I'm a Buddhist, well what, why are you a different religion? Or you can approach them and say, oh, like who are you? You know, you are another human, what are things do we have in common instead of what things do we have different? Yes. And then how can you start from there? You know, the place of love and compassion, asking questions and learning, I love that, I think that's a good one, and leveraging technology to be able to do that, can you record a meeting, can, and see how people interact with each other, this type of stuff, but then you can also maybe nudge like people gently, like if two people are maybe using words and you can maybe process natural language, process and see who has sentiment that's more aggressive or something like that. Exactly. Maybe you can nudge them towards peace with technology. Exactly, you know, that's actually when I was discussing this peace technology in AI, there's, for example, there's one beautiful example, when now we can talk to robots, right? You can, you can always say, what's a robot Alex? Hi, when you, hi Alex, right? Alexa is the Amazon. Yes, yeah, so you know, you can try to talk to them, but, but sometimes the answer is not like, not good enough. When, when you say, for example, when you say, oh, today I feel I'm depressed, I'm sad, and you will, you will see that the robot will immediately, will see, I suggest you go to listen some music or have a work with friends, and the reality is after you hear this, you don't feel better. So, and, and that's the thing is, if we can try to make this AI, make this technology have more empathy, like the, the same concept you are saying, we, so the, in this book we mentioned that if we can use, there's a communication, communication theory called non-balance communication, so with this communication theory applied to AI, maybe later when you talk to the robot, you say, hey Alex, today I feel sad, and, and this robot will try to feel you, okay, I understand your feeling, you know, I, it will answer you different, yes, and make you feel more like, oh, I mean understand, not just someone immediately tries to say, just go to listen some music, you know, yeah, yeah, so this is another very detail that, also that you can use AI or use technology to enhance the positive engagement even before, even between robots and humans, yeah, and also when you are writing, you know, emails, test, you know, tests, you can also use AI, do the same thing, when you write an email, you say, I really don't like you, I, you know, when you write this sentence, there's going to be some conflicts, red highlight that shows up, yes, are you sure you want to send this, yes, so it's the same concept, so if we, if we can focus more on, you know, the goal, what's the goal of using AI, what's goal robots surrounded us everywhere, the, is the goal to, you know, to service our human to have a better life, or, you know, have a, have a better work, if, if that's so, then we want to apply all this empathy, you know, positive engagement, even with robotics, so that's another, yeah, these are such good examples, Jinxia, I feel like we're finally starting to, really, instead of just say, oh, technology is just a tool can be used for good or bad, here it's like, no, we know how to use it for good, we know how to use it for peace, so let's move it in this direction, yes, exactly, so for the entrepreneurs, for the, for the people who are developing using technology, so they, of course, they want to say, we don't want to do harm, we don't want to be evil, but the question is, we also don't know how to be good, like what, how can I use my technology to be good, they got confused, what's the principles, what's the guidelines, they also don't know, so that's why, that's also, I think, the research of peace technology matters, because you need to, you need to come up with these guidelines, these principles to tell everyone, if you can use technology this way, use your AI this way, with more empathy, you know, if you can use your your tools to, to increase the possible engagement between people, if you can increase in general people's ability to be good to each other, then okay, you are in a good direction, you can keep going, otherwise, maybe, you know, you should be more careful, you know, this is, it's also one, one thing that I really, looking forward that, you know, this book will make a difference, even a slight difference. It's going to, it already has, it already did in my life, and it likely already did for Ron, and it likely already did for the people that are viewing this, so the butterfly effect, and all the people that are at the Peace Innovation Lab, all the people that you talk to about this, it makes a big effect, it's the butterfly effect, and then we go and we talk more about it, really, I urge, I urge you all to take a look at PeaceTech, please, this is very beautiful, I'm so happy that we're having this, this conversation, and you're, you're, you're right about, these are the technologies that can improve collaboration, that can improve peace, and how we can apply it, so what do you then, do you expect then that more people are going to be more conscious about Peace Technology, and about moving us in that direction? Yes, of course, and like I said, because technology is a universal tool, it's, literally, even a teenager can, can do something about it, and no matter who you are, no matter what profession you are, you know, you can, as long as you are aware that technology is something, impact our life, everyone's life deeply, and we don't want to be too late to do something good, we want to do it now, before it's too late, so I think, you know, to marry peace is the first step, and then we can do something about it, right? The first step of later what we can do, after we, I should finish that, after we collect the data between us, between, it can be two people, but it can, can also in a group, it can even between cities, it can even come between countries, it depends on how much data you have, right? So the first step, when you collect enough engagement data, the second step is you try to finger out, everyone, you have the ability to do something means, after you have this data, you can detect the specific problem in your community, in our team, in the company, or in the city, you can detect, you can know specifically why in this city, the public don't communicate well with the government, you can know better what is wrong, which part is the problem, when you have the inset from the data, you can see, oh, maybe it's because the government never really talked to the people well, so when you diagnose the problem, be very specific, then you can try to use technology to solve this problem, so you can create a prototype and you can mirror whether this technology, this technology can be a website, can be an app, can be anything, you know, determining on what's the problem you find, and then you try to use this technology to commute, to connect and, you know, enable better communication, anything increase that the positive engagement, positive peace, so that is the part that, you know, the next step after you mirror peace, what really you can do? It's making a lot more sense to me, your upbringing when you're growing up in rural with nature and how you also did all the journalism around technology and then how it all brings us to peace technology, you had the initial immersion into nature, you had Buddhist principles as well, you did the journalism in the tech sector and entrepreneurship and science and stuff like that, finance, and it pieces together into this, and so I think you're doing such incredible work with this book, I think we should sit down again at a future time to actually give more examples of peace technology and explaining how it is very successful in its deployment and also how some of these new exponential technology fields, how we can potentially recommend ethicists or philosophers or moral scientists to enter into those fields for greater likelihood of peace technology, where maybe some areas don't have peace technology yet, where what examples could be deployed because people listen and then they go oh I can build that peace technology yes this type of stuff yes actually so I recommend that there's one peace build peace database, there's a website, you can you can see all the all the you know cases, examples, all what people already do with peace tech, so you can see this database build peace database, build peace database, is okay is there a do we know if this is like buildpeacedatabase.com or something yes yes okay cool because we'll link that in the bio for everyone okay yeah and and also I also would like to recommend peace innovation lab at Stanford, I mentioned it a lot of times it is as far as I know Mark Nielsen the director, he's the one that and also the co-founder Magritcha, so they too are really the visionaries you know in use technology to increase positive peace so before them like USAP peace tech lab you know there's lots of like peace factory they're working on prevent and reduce conflict but in terms of how to increase ability to be good to each other there's still lots of discussion very big you know peace data, what is peace data right, how to define how we can really use technology to collect and mirror this thing so this work I think peace innovation lab they did fantastic work and you can simply go to their website to check yes that'll be another link in the bio the peace to sanford peace innovation lab that's another big one okay really good really good I'm just again I'm just so impressed with what this is about with what peace techs about with what you guys have put together I'm very very impressed and I'm looking forward to what young people can take and see the world through this perspective of peace technology apply to every field apply to bring us together I'm a huge fan and and I want to like I said I want to do another episode where we actually break things down in deeper and give more examples that'll be a good one let's do that okay thank you thank you Jinxu I'm let's ask you two questions on the way out okay that we ask on the show the first question is do you think we're in a simulation do you think we're in simulation yeah do you think we're in a simulation oh that's very interesting question um what's the what's usually you get answer what's what's the usual answer some people think yes some people think no some people give some you know context around why they think that way some people say maybe because of this or that well I just like this beautiful name it's an interesting name yes it goes into a lot of different places with it yeah so I want to ask you why in the beginning you come up with name first well it does lead to a lot of important fields of of study for humans a word like that can lead to a lot of good studies for humans to understand our reality that we live in and a lot of other good things but um and we can talk more you can maybe since you're a journalist you can maybe sit down with me and I can I can unpack this more for you if you're if you're interested in it yeah I think it's very interesting but it's difficult for me to simply to say yes or no because I feel right it's something beyond it's much more to be discussed so yes yes okay good well we can discuss more than on another time okay and then what about what do you think is the most beautiful thing in the world the most beautiful thing in the world um I think is when when your heart is is literally you know is I can say maybe happy is not accurate happy and peaceful yeah when you are when you can feel at this moment you're peaceful and you're happy I think that's most beautiful moment that's the most beautiful thing I love it oh it's so warm ah to have that on a moment to moment basis around the world of a happy and peaceful state of living together harmoniously with nature I mean it's beautiful thank you Jinxia thank you so much for coming on the show thank you for teaching us about your book thank you thank you thank you it's been a pleasure learning more about you and your life okay thank you everyone for tuning in we greatly appreciate it we would love for you to check out the links in the bio below go and check out jinxiannew.com as well as the website um as also the amazon book link check it out go and support the book support peace tech go talk to your friends your families co-workers people online on social media about peace tech spread more examples of peace technology around the world and do that thing that we mentioned during the show take a picture of yourself maybe with your family with your friends and say that that you want to ensure you want to push peace technology around the world that you want to ensure safety and no violence around the world things like that that can really help us make a better world together and also support the artists the entrepreneurs the scientists the organizations around the world that you believe in support simulation all of our links are below support us on patreon on paypal on cryptocurrency all our links are below support us also if you want to design cool merchandise and get paid for it the ub link to the merchandise is below check that out and go and build the future everyone shout out to ron vagus for producing and directing thank you very much ron and go and build the future everyone manifest your dreams into the world thanks for tuning in we'll see you soon