 The 2022 football World Cup has concluded and what a conclusion it was for Lionel Messi and Argentina. It was a dream long in the making. They finally lifted the trophy which their fans had been looking forward for the longest time. But this has been a very interesting tournament to say the least. The first held in this part of the world, in this part of Asia. A lot of differences from many previous tournaments, a lot of controversy leading up to the tournament as well. But the mood on the ground, so to speak, was actually very different from what you have seen in many World Cups so far. We'll be talking about all this with Siddhanta Neh, who was in Qatar for many, many weeks. Siddhanta, thank you so much for joining us. And let's, you know, there's a lot to talk about. It's very difficult to sort of think of where to start, but let's start from the very beginning. As they say, in the run-up to this World Cup, we know that there was no intercontroversy. There were very valid issues that were raised about Qatar's record as far as migrant workers were concerned. You know, it's the treatment of human rights, those kind of issues. There was also a bit of pushback against this because of how the western media was actually covering many of these issues. They seemed to be far more interested in questioning a country like Qatar, while never bothering to question, makes right, raise such questions when tournaments were held in their own region, so to speak. But keeping, you talked about that, but from the perspective of fans, from the perspective of what you saw on the ground, how do you see this tournament as, say, would you say it was different from some of the other tournaments you've witnessed? What was generally the mood? Different in many ways, Prashant, but also similar. You know, when these kind of events happen and the world's media sort of descends and focuses on one microcosm for such a long period. It's a month-long event. Everything tends to be true and untrue at the same time. So there's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on and of course for Qatar, it has to be understood that this was an exercise in soft power and projecting its soft power, as well as what it's done in terms of building up a media sort of reputation for itself through the Al Jazeera network and other things. On the ground, I think by and large because from a, I suppose, safety and security perspective, at least for those visiting from the outside, it is probably very different for people who live there full-time. Because the region is so safe and so secure and everything is kind of, like I was just, you know, thinking we are so used to, there's so much militarization around, especially in this part of the world. For a month, I didn't see, you know, a weapon. It's different from how things are otherwise. Even if you look at how, so the security forces, for example, they're present and deployed for the tournament, how they're geared. It was a lot less aggressive and militaristic than in several major tournaments, what we saw in Russia in 2018 and France two years before that for the European championships, where, you know, riot police are like terminator. So no alcohol at the stadiums also seem to have led to an environment where we saw lots of very young children attending probably their first World Cups. A lot of people from very different demographic also. I think Saudis were the largest number of visitors to Qatar during the month because, naturally, they share a land border and things have recently changed. They're patched up to some extent. There was a lot of Saudi media critiquing Qatar also and the efforts being made by the Qataris, particularly in the context of Palestine and what it perceived as more symbolic gestures of solidarity, whereas in regard to, you know, talks around the Abraham Accords and things like that, different things happening in the back channel, back room. And from a footballing perspective, of course, the tournament was incredible. I think in a sense, having it at a time when the European leagues, most of the top European leagues are in full flow or mid-flow, led to players landing up at this tournament ready to hit the ground running. Argentina, of course, took a little bit longer to get their engine going and get their machine running. But for the rest, I mean, it was the first round of games led to some incredible results. That's Saudi win and Japan beating former world champions and all of that. So on the pitch, definitely it was a super tournament and something that we'll miss because the World Cup will now expand itself to 48 teams. So the excitement that is generated, because 32 is a great number to have in the last round of group matches, that is something that will be missed. And I think the day before the tournament concluded, FIFA president Gianna Infantino finally reappeared after his opening day, Bizarro's speech to reassure us that the idea of 12 groups will be discarded and finally FIFA has realized that there is something to having groups of four. It makes for interesting viewing and a lot of suspense. So yeah, a lot happened. I'm sorry if I'm rambling. No, it's difficult to summarize a month of football in just a few minutes. But Sitaan, just coming back to some of those points you talked about, would you say that, I mean, there's one question as to was this one of the best tournaments in recent times? Many people in fact have been making that argument. There's definitely an argument to be made that the final was perhaps one of the best FIFA World Cup finals in recent times. But do you also see that difference in the earlier stages of the tournament so to speak in the sense that were the gaps lesser in some senses between some of the powerhouses and some of the newer, less experienced, less celebrated countries so to speak? There were a number of upset results like you pointed out. So how do you sort of understand that in the context of the World Cup? It's an interesting one Prasanth and also a tough one. In a sense, some gaps are becoming... Qatar of course was the exception to all of this. Their project to build a football team as well as football culture around it has only been partly successful. It has to be said, despite the massive amounts of money that have been spent on this tournament, I think it will take a lot longer for that nation to actually build for itself some kind of a culture around the sport. But for the rest, you get Morocco's incredible run to the semi-finals of the tournament. A lot of their top players are this time playing in the top for some of the top clubs in the top leagues in Europe. So they were able to and Walid Regravi came in very recently, only about a couple of months before the tournament began and he patched things up actually between the Moroccan football federation and some of these star players. Because back home, there is a section of the Moroccan press that believes that some of the players who are highly paid at big clubs abroad don't wear the national team jersey with the right amount of passion and dedication. It's often criticism that comes up. But he managed to get all that sorted out and I think the whole world was watching Morocco and hoping for them to after Spain and Portugal and go on and do the job against France. But maybe that was a step too far for this tournament. But like Moroccan fans and there were a lot of Moroccans who also eventually made it together. Their favorite refrain when you ask them a question about how far they can go in the tournament or whether they can beat the next big European team the answer was almost always why not. So in many ways that kind of also summed up Qatar's World Cup. It was the World Cup of why not from air conditioned walkways even though the temperature desert in the winter it's not hot by any stretch at least not compared to the heat that we are used to. But still all stops were pulled and of course at some point it will have to be assessed what kind of impact this has had in terms of the carbon footprint of this tournament massive and all of that. I mean you saw almost for a month fleets of cars and buses with their engines just running and air conditioning just on all the time. And that's just a very small part of of course the overall colossal actually waste that these kind of tournaments generate. So but I guess the reality of it is that these tournaments are not going anywhere. If FIFA has its way they will only keep getting bigger and bigger as time goes on. They have proposed now a 32 team club World Cup. So this is an ongoing battle between FIFA and UEFA to control global football revenues because as of now they only make a profit once every four year cycle. So FIFA has very keen to expand its own revenue streams. They're concentrating on media and getting into that in a big way now. So that will become the next sort of product as it were. So I guess the commodification of men's football is complete. Of that there is no longer any doubt this was the kind of flagship World Cup of capitalism. And there were enough distractions thrown at people who are attending to keep everyone happy. And much of these parts of Central Doha are shiny new extremely spotlessly clean far away from the labour camps for example where many of the migrant workers coming from again this part of the world a majority of them where they reside in the working class neighbourhoods. So many of the fans were kind of shielded from that reality as well. And there was some symbolism as well. So a fan park was created at what is called Asian town in the industrial area where many migrant workers live at a cricket stadium. Not surprisingly where you know those entertainment and screenings and those who didn't get a chance to watch the games in the stadium. Although at 40 Rs which is approximately 800 rupees so about 10 dollars. Several tickets were sold to people who were living in Qatar particularly working class people. So in fact I was talking to one mechanic with Qatar Airways and he was telling me how in their company maybe not all the matches that they wanted to but those who had interest were able to secure these cheap tickets and actually participate in a tournament that they have built because and it doesn't happen very often because more and more because of the economics of it and how much money there is to be made. Working class people are being priced out of the sport of football at least from you know watch on TV if you can afford a subscription. But going to the stadium is often too far. So Siddharth actually that leads us to an interesting point which is basically that you were talking about how the tournament is set to expand. And this is the last with 32 teams. Now 48 teams seems it's quite a challenge in the sense that such a long tournament will interest remain of course there will always be a set of hardcore fans but will the rates of interest change but like you said FIFA is also out to make a lot of money out of these kind of projects. But the question really is also in terms of connecting this to the earlier question. Does this you know give a chance for more countries to actually sort of make a mark in some senses because there's always a possibility of upset victories of some star players being you know given a global platform might then be picked up by say clubs in other places. So do we also see a 48 country tournament where having its many disadvantages also sort of increasing the scope of. Narrowing some of those gaps further. I mean this is a point that is has been and rightly so widely discussed you have 55 odd countries the same approximately the same number of member nations for UEFA as well as the African football configuration the CAF. But where Europe gets 13 spots at the final World Cup Africa gets just 5. So and like Ravi again made this statement repeatedly that it's this inequality in terms of basic opportunity that has so far kept an African nation from qualifying for getting to the semifinal stage or even going ahead and winning the World Cup even though some of the top players from around the world a country like Egypt for example wasn't even at the World Cup can be argued that Mo Salah is currently one of the best players around. So added spots for both Asia and Africa is something that is part of Gianni Infantino's also his constituency his voter base that's where he derives much of his support from and it is very much part of the plan. So it's hard to argue against expanding the tournament to include some of these countries and I think like we've seen this time to an extent next time it'll be a little bit more. We will find that the western media or the English football presses argument that you shouldn't have teams just to make up the numbers for some kind of token participation prize. That will not be the case. I think several of these teams will be able to compete at the highest level because also their players like you were saying are already benefiting from Japanese coach told us how for example the Bundesliga has helped Japanese football get to the stage where it has of course how women's football in Japan itself has also had a major impact on how the men's team has developed because they have actually the experience of winning a football World Cup which the men from this continent don't. So clearly there are still some gaps in that learning and Japan is someone we'll be following more closely at the next tournament as well and a chance for some newbies outsiders also to the United States and Canada being two examples. They play very different kind of football to what many of the European teams tend to play. Canada were a really fun team to watch. The results didn't go of course but again very diverse multiracial kind of teams representing I suppose a good cross section of people who live in Canada and going out there and playing a quite fun brand of attacking football you know I think they figured that the chances of them progressing far in the tournament were limited but so they gave their fans something to cheer for and the rest of us a bit of entertainment. So I think the gaps are definitely closing Prashant and we'll see that hopefully this is a section of I think it's still extremely difficult. Because it's still largely I think depends on the fact that many of these players have to end up in Europe and then be in the league there for them to actually reach that standard. Whereas in Asia and Africa the local the regional infrastructure the national infrastructure is not you know still has a long way to go. Long way to go yeah absolutely. I think and for the Saudis for example it was incredible how well they managed to do because a lot of their players because it's again a rich nation and at home they are given the kind of prestige and pride of place that stars get which in Europe perhaps if they were to try to move would not be the case. So it is far more comfortable for the top Saudi players to remain in Saudi and play in their local league. But until those local leagues like you were saying become more diverse and have some talent coming in from outside particularly like South America for example Africa as well until then it will be extremely difficult. They were lucky that they had a month month and a half as to come together as a team and prepare something that many of the other teams didn't because of club commitments and things like that. And so because they had been together for so long they were able to get I think meet their objectives for this tournament. But beyond that Qatar was a clear indication of that difference in infrastructure and league strength that you were mentioning despite them being able to spend a ton of money to send a whole lot of their players to the Spanish league and you know they played there for a little while of course they couldn't go on forever. Eventually they had to come back and return to I think Al Saud for example one of the local clubs had 15 players who were part of the national team. So when you have that kind of also discrepancy within your own league system it becomes a lot less competitive and in the long run that does in terms of a footballing sense it does more damage than good. Japan is the exact opposite they have an extremely robust league system. Arsene Wenger who is now some are calling a FIFA stooge. He's the heading what FIFA calls its technical study group. He was instrumental in kind of building the J league up to the level where it's at and it is probably the top league in the Asian continent. And so I think there are examples for other Asian nations to take from the continent itself rather than always wanting to imitate or copy what the West is up to. Of course Ancindanth finally I mean a lot of more things actually but from our perspective of course very difficult to disengage politics from sport and like you said this provides a bit of a conundrum because the World Cup has now become one of the epitomies of capitalism in all its glory so to speak and we had say decades ago for instance we had the great Brazilian teams which are also very deeply political in a progressive sense. Now it's become a lot of the political messages become very anodyne in terms of charitable causes, NGOs that kind of stuff. Nonetheless it was interesting to see the Palestinian flag so open and widely on display. I don't think in any other part of the world this would actually have worked. Yeah it was and happily in that sense because I think for the most of us the rest of the world all we can really do is express solidarity and I suppose put some pressure on your local politicians where that applies but it was the one sort of political statement that nobody stood up against. We saw some there were divisions among Iranian fans as well who attended the World Cup and we saw how quickly the authorities moved to kind of shut all of that down so irrespective of whether you are in support of the regime or against it all of those flags, t-shirts, protests were completely shut down by the Qataris very quickly. Of course that has to do their own relationship. But for the Palestinian cause this much was clear that in this part of the world there is great support. Irrespective of what the governments are doing. So Qatar of course is not a signatory to the Abraham Accords but there are still chats going on. The US is very much a factor in that region and so I think people attending took the opportunity to say that we are not necessarily always represented by what our governments decide and many of these governments since they are not even democratic governments they don't represent anyone at all in that sense. So I think it would be a stretch to say that Palestine was the big winner of this World Cup because that struggle still very much continues. But just in terms of the amount of coverage that the issue received people are talking about it. I mean you saw people from all over the world taking pictures with whether Palestinians or those carrying Palestinian flags. Of course some of it is also smoke and mirrors because this whole exercise to allow flights to come in which was ostensibly to allow Palestinians to come and attend and participate in the tournament at least as spectators that turned out to be completely occupied territories. So Arab residents of Israel of greater Palestine. And it was essentially at least according to reports and the few people we spoke to including some representatives of Israeli media organizations that it was to basically allow Israelis to come and watch the tournament in a part of the world where otherwise they cannot travel. And so that was one of the critiques in fact of Qatar's decision that the Saudis made Saudi press made at least saying that you know on the one hand you're proclaiming solidarity with the Palestinian people but you're then also making special arrangements for you know So yeah it was like I think like you probably get the sense it was a bit of a lot going on. It is overwhelming yes absolutely. But in terms of I mean let's end with of course your take on the goat debate as you say. No yeah I do have a take on the goat debate but it is quite simply again because of I guess our politics and things like that football is a complete team sport. You it's very very difficult to have one goat. And even if you have a goat often that is not enough for a team to win if let's say winning is the objective. You're talking about that Brazil team from 82 for example led by Socrates who kind of those were the kind of teams the best team to never have won a World Cup. It was all about how the team played as a unit rather than what a player did or didn't do as the case might be. At this World Cup we saw Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi have very different tournaments. It also so that kind of reinforced how transient these things are. If Messi hadn't won this World Cup would he still be the goat probably. But you know because so much of it is outcome driven. I think these debates also get settled when trophies are lifted. So my take on it is probably irrelevant because I think around the world some French friend of mine sent me a picture on WhatsApp the other day of the World Map and Argentina flags everywhere except one tiny corner of Europe. So I think the world has proclaimed Messi as the greatest at least male footballer ever. And I think he has it in him the way he's playing to go for another World Cup in fact because you know he's changed his game completely and he operates at a tempo and given the condition that he seems to be in he operates at a tempo which will allow him to play when he's 39 as well. So you know the Messi story may not be done yet. He's already got as many goals as Pelle and maybe he'll take it a bit further. I think a lot of fans across the world especially in Kerala where I come from would desperately be hoping that it's true. Thank you so much Siddharth for talking to us. That's all we have time for today from the 2022 World Cup. Hopefully we'll talk to you four years down the line as well. Until then keep watching People's Dispatch.