 Lodge. Every day I came to work one piece at a time. Nice. Thank you. On behalf of the city council, as well as the city, thank you for your long, long service. My pleasure. You will miss you. You probably will miss us. Some days you might. Yeah. Well, life is up and down. That's right. Yeah. So thank you. Pull it up here. If you can read this from back there, you're good. We'll all be little dots. The largest effect. Great. Should we have told them it would have been gold-plated? Three more days. Sorry. I want you to know, captain, you trained them well because a couple of these gentlemen gave me a wonderful ride a few weeks ago. And thanks, guys. It was great. Enjoy being with you for a short time. Hope I don't see you again on those circumstances. They understand. It's much nicer seeing you here. They understand that. That's good. And thank you again. And thank you for everything. You always wanted to give me a hug every time we had one. It's just the right size for a hug, isn't it? A hugger with a hug. Yeah. Thanks so much, Karen, for everything. Thank you very much. All right, well. It was nice spending a couple of hours or an hour or so with Tom tonight. And I'm glad you guys sent someone that wasn't here only a year. Tom, I'm here at 39 years old. Is that all right? Sketch it up. Those are special moments. 47 years is a long time. Long time. They didn't seem that long. Well, you know, if you enjoy your work, it doesn't. Item five. Title 19 VSA section 709 examination of the premises at South Burlington City Hall. This item on the agenda needed to be on the agenda tonight. But you can. Move to dismiss. Okay, there's a motion. Andrew. You have it. This is the closed examination. Yes. So I moved to close the examination of the premises pursuant to 19 PSA 709 for the alteration of the town highway right away for markets. Street town highway number 228. Any discussion? Seeing none all in favor signify by saying aye. Any post? No. And then there's a follow-up, right? Later on. Later on the agenda. Okay. So now we get to item six. Comments and questions from the public. Not related to the agenda. Yes. Mark. Yeah. Thank you. Good evening. Good evening. Good evening. Mark Dickinson is my name. And I have lived at 49 Shepherd Lane with my nice family for about 20 years now. And in relative peace. But the last six weeks have been nothing but peaceful. We are miserable, distraught, agitated. We have no peace, no quiet. We have no peace. We have no peace. We have no peace. We have no peace, no quiet. And that's since the dog park was put in our backyard. And I'm not overly exaggerating these feelings. It's nonstop barking, barking, barking. Incessant barking. Seven in the morning, seven at night. Eight at night. Some of the dog folks have figured out a little trick like two nights last week. They'll park their cars with a light shine on the dog fence. They'll take their dog in at eight, nine, ten at night. And just run it and then barking and barking. I don't think we should have to shoulder this burden that it was located right behind my house because we can't tolerate this. This is like beyond anything I've seen in my 58 years on this earth. I just can't stand it. My wife is at the leave our home three times in the last month to go to her workplace to be able to do work in peace for two and a half, two hours because in our house there's no peace. And this is with the doors closed and the windows shut. And it is just so loud and there's so many dogs. We're just at wit's end. I could just about pull my hair out. And I'm not exaggerating. And this past Sunday it was so bad that my wife made plans with a couple of friends and they went and had coffee. I said good morning. And I said I'm going to go out and rake up some leaves and try to clean up my lawn a little bit more and get the leaves off my pool cover. And ten minutes into my work I couldn't stand it anymore. I had to throw my rake down. I went in the house. I calmed myself. And I called here and left a message for Assistant City Manager Tom Hubbard on his machine so he'd get it Monday morning. And I wanted to sense and feel the urgency of my hair and my voice because I was literally shaking in my own house. And I couldn't even be in my backyard. So I jumped in my car, finalized my list and went over to Costco and found some peace. And so a little tranquility. And I'm pretty sad about it that I had to leave my own home. And my wife has done it three times now and that's just not fair. It's not fair and it's not right. You know I don't know how this dog park got located right in the back of my house. That's not the question now. It's like I respectfully ask you to consider relocating it and moving it because it's not the place for it. That's always been a beautiful little park. Young kids there, young moms, strollers. You know, I glance over. I don't see that now. There's nobody sitting on the picnic tables. Why don't I sit there with a loved one or a friend and have a sandwich. When there's 30 dogs barking, the brain's out. It's that bad. And it's like, it just really dismayed me to see that the complexion of that park has changed so dramatically in such a short time. And then I probably shouldn't admit it, but a few Sundays I just couldn't tolerate it and I jumped the split reel fence and I went over it. 7.30, one Sunday morning at 7.30 a.m. and I'm yelling and arguing with a couple of dog owners instead of enjoying my coffee in the house getting ready for church. And I'm sure they had some choice words for me when they cut in their car and left. I wasn't very pleasant. But I had listened to them barking and barking and barking. The assassin barking just gives you a headache. And it was about 30 minutes and that's why I said, I can't do it. I can't tolerate it. And like I said, when they left, they were probably pretty upset with me. But of course there's no peace. 10 minutes later, there's a whole new group. There's a whole new bunch of people there. The doors are slamming, they're in and out of their cars. It goes all day long. All the traffic. And I guess I don't understand the concept of the dog park. You know, I don't want it in my backyard, but 95% of the dogs are being transported there by their owners in vehicles. How is that eco-friendly? You don't walk your dog in your own neighborhood. Go out and walk your dog. You know, people are standing there, not even getting an exercise, watching Fido run all over the place. Then back in their cars, all the doors slamming, the vehicles leave, and then 20 more come. And it's just been excessive. I mean, I appeal to your sense of justice and your sense of compassion that we just can't do it. We're not going to be able to deal with it, Darren. And it needs to be moved somehow, some way sooner than later. It's the wrong spot. And like I said, I don't know how I got there, but it's the wrong spot. And for those of you who got my email last week, I tried to tell you about what had been going on for that five weeks. So for those of you that read it, it's all day long, so we have no peace. It's all day long. It's not like, oh, five o'clock, park closes, no. It's seven, eight at night, and a couple of the other smarter ones, too. They have figured out that if you go and stand by the public work stretch, the nice motion light comes on. It's a big, beautiful spotlight that the city put in years ago, because I had called the police many times, and we had a few issues back then with miscreants and vandalism. And I took a proactive approach. I got my ear open, and I think I probably saved the city thousands of dollars over a few years because they were vandalizing the dugouts. They had busted some soccer goals, et cetera, et cetera. But then they were trying to smash the hut one night, that beautiful hut there that, you know, was paid for, and so they figured out if they stand there, that big spotlight comes on, and they can go out and run around with Fido until he barks his brains out until 9 a.m. We just can't stand it. Like I said, it's just way beyond the norm. And what really has kind of bugged me a little bit, I did a little research, and if you go right to the city's ordinance, care and control of dogs, and it's section four, and it states disturbances. And it says no person shall have a dog or dogs which frequent or long continued noise distracts, disturbs, excuse me, disturbs the quiet comfort and repose of others. And that's right in the city's own ordinance, and yet they put the dog park right in my backyard. I have a hard time with that. I really am. And then if you go to the public nuisance part of our ordinances, and that also deals with excessive noise, and there's a title that says express prohibitions, and it's section three, C7, and that also states no person shall have a dog or dogs which frequent or long continued noise disturbs the quiet comfort and repose of others. And I gotta tell you, I didn't want to repose, man, I had to look it up. It means tranquility. I've had no tranquility. My family has had no tranquility. It is brutal out there. Mark, is your house like Gray House that just sits to the right of where the O'Brien Center was? No. That's on the next one. That's my neighbor. My house is directly behind the two. Is your neighbor also, is your neighbor? No, they have a dog. They chain their dog out, and it barks incessantly all the time. Yeah, that was an issue. I just wanted to find out. No, it's okay. I didn't want to bring it out, but I had to call Animal Patrol a few times last year. I had to work with them and they didn't care. And I'm having a hard time with a lot of dog owners now because they don't seem to care. There's a lot of dog bites. I called the police station last week. There's dog issues. They're telling me. And it's irresponsible dog owners. And they chain them out and leave them out there. And he barks and barks and barks. And it's like, I don't know how people can treat their animal that way. But the other part of the ordinance, specifically states express prohibitions, Section 3, C7, like I said. And somebody had to foresight. In part of that, it states what the other one states, but it also put within the vicinity. And I just love those three words because they had to foresight to say, somebody can complain about these dogs and their nuisance and disturbances and noise. And it doesn't necessarily have to be right beside you at your neighbors, within the vicinity. And it still is in violation of our ordinance. And yet the dog park is right in my backyard. We're having a very hard time with it. And we really need relief somehow. So I, please, please hope you give my concerns serious consideration. And because obviously we will have to be subjected to it. And I don't know what I'd do after, if you take no action. And I know that because there's always one in every crowd with all due respect. I mean, if things come down to money, that's what life's about. So somebody's going to throw up, we spent $1,000 putting up the fence. Okay? Well, it's not working. And sometimes we have to spend money to move forward in good faith. And it's a fence. You know, I'm not being smug in any way. I have a budget. My daughter's at Providence College. I've got tuition. I know what budgets are about. But I don't want to see it said, oh, we spent $1,000 too bad. You know? Hey, maybe we need to do something to help us to get some relief. You know? And I know it's man-hours, but it's moving the fence. You know? We have the wherewithal to move the fence. Because for me, this isn't about economics. It's not like an economic issue. To me, this is like a moral issue that we are in distress here. And we need some relief. So thank you for your time. And Mark, I just want you to clarify, we can't take any action tonight. Right. It has to go on the agenda at a future date. It has to go on an agenda. So if the council wants to put this as an agenda item for another meeting, then we can have more of a conversation and furl out some options, possible options. Right. You know that this might take a little while. You might have no hair left by the time. Thanks. Do we have another business? Do we have a quick discussion about it? We can have a quick discussion on other business. We just can't take action. I understand that. I mentioned he hoped we took action, but we didn't need to know what we were going to do. Yeah, I know. So I just want you to know to please don't go home and say nothing can be done because we can't do it at this short notice. But we can put that on other items and we can discuss, you know, under other business. Although, again, we won't take action, but we can discuss what we might consider hearing about. I think we all appreciate it. Hearing at CERN. Well, thank you. Your email was most explicit. Thank you. It's been dreadful. If I don't hear another dog bark before year end, it wouldn't be soon enough. It's obnoxious. It's irritating. And it can be three sometimes. Sometimes there's just three of them out there, but they're just going ballistic. And sometimes there's 25 of them out there. And obviously it's like, wow. I think you also mentioned you thought parking was an issue since it was such a popular dog park. I did. There were so many cars. I'm a proponent of dog parks because I know people like to have a place where they can let their dogs run fast and throw frisbees and stuff and have it legal. But I guess I hadn't really, since I've never been to a dog park, I didn't. Neither have I. It didn't occur to me that it would be dogs, all of them barking. It didn't occur to me either and I have a dog. I mean, it really didn't. I mean, I have three dogs. I know they bark. Right. So. Yeah, no. We have two little dogs, two little 10 pound lap dogs. And we don't allow them to bark too much because I do not want them to disturb our neighbor. And plus we want them to behave. And it's our little female, a Brussels griffin, Shay. She's just been so agitated. She's peed on the floor in the kitchen like eight, nine times. Oh, I'm sure with all those other dogs. With all the dogs. And she doesn't want to do it. She just paces and paces and she's, yeah, she's confused because she wants to protect the house. She starts the growl. She's this big, you know, and then she paces and then the dogs are barking and then this car is coming and going. And yeah, I did mention the parking because I had to throw that out there and there's no room. I mean, you know, 95% of these dogs being driven there by their owners. And there's not even any sporting events per se right now going on. I can't even imagine when they got the little kids playing baseball and a baseball game because it's already packed then. I mean, and like I said in my email, we've enjoyed the park. You know, the cheers from the baseball diamond were all for it. Hysteria from the football grid iron, loving it. Love it. But this is not acceptable. This is. Well, those are specific times. And yeah, it is short. Not very early in the morning, nor late at night. Do you think it's the proximity or the whole venue is inappropriate place? What's that? You think it's the proximity to the house where the dog park is located? Yes. Or would you feel that the whole park is inappropriate for that? That's a good question. When we when we come back, if it's something that's put on the agenda, if you would bring that to our attention, I would be curious as to because, you know, we have a reasonably good sized park and whether sometimes the best laid plans, you know, with mice and men are great. Well, if I may for a minute, answer your question. Yeah. Okay. Well, I think I need to ask my child. Well, sure. Okay. One minute. When we saw the fencing piled at the end of the parking lot, there's like it didn't raise a red flag with us because it was like, oh, okay. Because if you go straight down to the fence and if you look at Google, it's always there. And that's what we thought it was going to be. Because we said, oh, wow, that's an 80 yard stretch. That's beautiful. We're talking about running and playing with the Frisbee. And we were actually joking with a friend because they have a dog. And there's a big telephone pole there. We're like somebody can get creative and paint a fire hydrant on that telephone pole at the bottom. Sorry. But anyway, that's what we thought it was going to be. So it did really raise a red flag because that looked like a perfect spot. And it was supported on two sections by trees and woods. Not going to harm a soul. And still from where the baseball left field baseball diamond is in the fence, there's still ample, ample room. But I would still worry about the parking. That's not my concern. Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Have a good evening. You too. Okay. Next on the list are announcements and the city managers report. Tom, do you want to? Nothing really to report. Okay. Thank you. Well, I enjoyed the groundbreaking ceremony over at the Allard, New Allard Square site. So I thought it was really educational, but also quite moving to see the number of moving parts and all of the agencies and associations that come together to make projects like this work. We just appreciate it when it does work. And I thought you said very aptly that this is really important for the city. So thank you too. You're welcome. I had two meetings, the airport commission meeting. And I'd like to remind everyone, I'll make the announcement on that a little further. But the next meeting of the airport commission is November 15th in the afternoon. At 4 o'clock. And I also attended the pension advisory committee meeting as they repped from the council on that. And I haven't received the minutes that we had someone scribe the minutes that day, but I think Tom is going to report on it as well. Thank you. Tim? I attended the SBBA sponsored conference on solving the traffic jams of tomorrow. At the Sheraton last Thursday from 8 till 12. They had a couple of speakers from stand tech come in and talk about smart connected vehicles. And about the future of vehicle travel and safety features and automation is very interesting. We break out sessions and create some ideas and then share them with a group afterwards. I also attended the Allard square groundbreaking and went to a planning commission meeting where Frank Coakman talked about the quandary of lot definitions. House lots versus the lots that are within a PUD. There was a board of abatement meeting. I also met with the bike and pet members at one of their homes. I also attended the local site where they were celebrating the new bike lanes on route 2. So we rode from Earl's down to the friendlies at Taft corner and then we rode back and nobody died. And it was fun. Then we had a raffle and I won something. Oh wow. If you people go and there's a lot of raffle items, there's a good chance you might win something. So that was a win-win day. What did you win? I won a helmet. I'll give it to my son. He needs one. He went to Boston for a grad school and his bike was stolen three days later. But now he'll have a new helmet. If he gets a bike. I also was an MMI interviewer at the Larner College of Medicine two weeks ago. So it wasn't a very busy two weeks. Did you work at all? I took vacation. Okay. I took the bike vacation. I also had one more meeting. Bob Britt and Kathy Franks asked since I wasn't able to be at the last meeting to hear their presentation, they came to my office last week for about an hour and a half, had a wonderful conversation with them and found out how much money they would like to have and we had a wonderful conversation about where that might come from. But anyway it was interesting. I got caught up on everything and actually an hour and a half learned a number of things that I wasn't and they clarified. I think items that I needed to have so that was another piece. So getting caught up. I did as well. And I thought it was good and we talked about possibilities and also we chatted about timing of different things and their whole process. So that was good. I also attended the abatement meeting and I went to a wonderful meeting that was here. It was a community collaborative and it's sort of the larger group that Kevin has really spearheaded to really focus on mental health. There were a number of people from the hospital community as well as just the whole community. And police and city managers of other communities as well as the mayor of Burlington showed up. And it was a great meeting and I think the best part was I think talking about sort of what are the next steps or what did everyone think should be the focus since there's the governor knows act 40 no it was a wait I have my nose with me. Act 14 requires a report that's due in December and this is I think the governor requested the report and it was really to look at what are the possibilities and what are the solutions or what would this group recommend to start to address the considerable issues of mental health and taking care of that. And I thought it was pretty interesting that the whole group seemed to coalesce around one idea as being sort of a big one and tied to this act 14 since the legislature will be looking at this there might be the possibility for some significant funding if you had something that really needed a big deal and they really agree that we needed more forensic beds because that's what interestingly enough is really tying up so many beds about half the beds in the new facility that was built and opened three years ago maybe maybe two years ago so that it backs up everyone with non-forensic mental health issues who really need care in a residential setting and then that backs up at the emergency rooms and the hospitals and No, no, this is a it's in middle Berlin that's where it was a new replace the state hospital much smaller and there was enormous debate on how big it should be and I think it's 19 beds and they probably should have made it 25 or 25 beds and they probably should have made it double that at least and they're bursting at the seams so I thought that was kind of interesting but then the other thing was these were the people in the community who have been looking at the what did she call it the rodeo the detox rodeo and all the impact on our police and when someone is drunk in public and they need to be picked up or they have an incident and it's clearly there some mental health issues and you know emergency room and they can't take them there and you go to the jail and they can't keep them there and you go down to act one and that's full and it's just you're spending several hours driving this person around who is clearly in need of some mental health care so it was a wonderful meeting and I think you know I really thank Kevin for sort of pulling it together and spearheading this but clearly it's that he's engaged all of the almost all of the communities in Chittenden County as well as the Howard Center in the hospital and so it was it was a really interesting meeting I was very very glad I went sure with regard to the abatement meeting which I think we all attended the question had to do whether or not the chair of the abatement board of abatement would be coming forward to address the two concerns that came out of that committee right and he did didn't he write you a email so that probably said he would put on an agenda yeah because we really do need to I also met with Peter for about an hour and a half to get caught up on the abatement pieces too so I forgot that one okay manage is important thanks Helen thank you for the overview of the community collaborative I think the program design for the community outreach program which has been one of the early spinoffs of that process is in your desk right now a hard copy of it and we have program design and we're in funding right now the state is going to step in for a very significant share our neighboring communities who are partners in this are going to step up along with us so this our hope at this moment in time that we can have a program this program up and running believe it or not by January one huge and then there is Helen noted there are other initiatives that are at some level of identification but I'd like to if I may defer to chief Brent for an announcement about a special event that honored our fire department the other night Doug would you like to use my time here yeah good evening so what Kevin is alluding to is about two weeks ago all the emergency services in the area which assisted the large fire at UVM Tories Hall several weeks ago were invited by President Sullivan of the University of Vermont to attend the basketball game at Patrick Gymnasium on Saturday night to be recognized and so myself and three of my people went representing the city of South Brompton and he put on a nice reception for everybody at the beginning of the evening and then with a representative from each of the departments called us to center court and recognized each department individually for their assistance that they gave and saving what was a I guess an irreplaceable collection of what's it called an herb or barium so yeah that was very nice and it was very well attended and we all had a good time and watched a good basketball game. Right they won too right? Yes they did. By a good margin. Cross town rival. Cross town rival right. So anyway I think it's an indicative of multiple communities responding to what could have been a very very tragic situation. Oh sure. Doug and his team were recognized for being on site and thank you. Yeah that particular day of that fire I mean when you have a big fire like that or a big incident like that everything else just doesn't come to a halt so we split our crew that day for them and part of our crew went to the actual fire at Tory Hall and part of our crew covered downtown Burlington for them while they were putting out the Tory Hall fire we took 11 calls in the city of Burlington for them just while they were fighting the fire at Tory Hall. So like I said when something big happens that doesn't make everything else stop happening. Stuff still happens so it's really interesting we have a great working relationship with the city of Burlington and our surrounding department so we like to think in the larger scope of things one hand washes the other eventually so. Thank you Doug. Thanks for coming in. Thanks for that. Just a couple of other things the Allard Square talk about the Allard Square press conference Helen represented the city at the Allard Square press conference Megan was there Tim was there and they're digging a hole so that's a good sign. The solar the Altus solar farm on the landfill press conference is probably going to happen next week although we've got a beautiful week seemingly of weather in front of us Altus folks are not available so that will probably be next week. The Veterans Assembly Veterans Day Assembly is this Thursday Thursday school and with a and then lastly I wanted to let you know that Coralie has taken on an expanded role and her new title is director of community engagement and innovation. So she continues to have her public information role brought into engagement as the council had suggested earlier on with the lean process that we're getting into and oversight over human resources so she's got a broader role and then in the human resources role will report to Tom on that so she's picked up more and you know in addition to that she's managing the transition over to the temporary library and other things so we're recognizing her leadership and adjusting her job description and her role accordingly. And so that is it. Okay, thank you. Item 8 is the consent agenda. I would entertain it includes the signed disbursement approval of minutes of October 2nd and October 16th a review and resolve to not file objection to de minimis 30 BSA 2848 modification notices regarding de minimis notifications notifications to existing T-Mobile wireless communication facilities on 2026 Williston Road and 900 Heinsberg Road and then a review and resolve to not file comments moved to intervene a request to hearing regarding that same notice of a public utility commission application for installation of Verizon wireless telecommunication facility at 366 Dorset Street and approve the Allard Square program grant agreement offer. That's the $525,000 that we applied for. Just one edit in the October 2nd minutes that didn't quite make it in. So I would move to approve the consent agenda with the exception of the October 2nd minutes. Okay. Is there a second to that motion? Second, but I have some discussion after I'm done with the second. Okay. So time for discussion. Yes. So Kevin, does anybody here understand the technical implications of the changes to the cell antennas for T-Mobile and Verizon? Because one of the antennas at contact paging looks like a microwave dish. And it's not a normal cell antenna. So I don't know where they're directing that signal to and who's receiving it. Paul Connor director of planning and we can certainly look into that. We did not inquire about the direction it is. It looks like a small satellite dish essentially. In terms of its location it's in amongst a lot of other equipment. So we didn't pose the question, but if the council would like we'd be happy to follow up on that. I was interested because there could be improvements. So there are people that don't have sprint signal or Verizon signal on Spear and Dorset. I mean it's a desert out there, right? And I'm not asking anything to be done. I'm just saying that it seemed like the power they're putting up and back right near the billiard parlor on Dorset street, that was a Verizon tower, right? So that's a WIP antenna right now with no cell on it whatsoever. They're going to tear it down and build a whole new matrix needle and put cells on that. I wasn't aware that there was poor cell coverage in there. So I'm just curious. And then they're putting T-mobiles up on the silo on Hinesburg road which should be for GLTE as well. But we continue to lack as coverage in the southeast quadrant south of that area including Spear and Dorset. So it's really bad. So I just was curious. I don't know what their business plans are and how they justify things. Without trying to express that I understand cell technology . Part of what we've been told by some of the providers is that as they're looking to address coverage, they're also looking to address quantity within service areas and that that's really where the 4G needs are going to be as people play Spotify while they're sitting at the school or driving by in the car or whatever it is that there's a huge data amount. And so every few years we see sort of a next generation I suspect that that's some of what we're seeing here. So I guess all I'm curious about is where is that T-mobile dish pointing from Contact Paders antenna? I mean is it pointing at another antenna somewhere else because that's the easiest way to pick up the link from that data? I was just curious. So if somebody finds out let me know. Happy to look into it. Do you want to hold off? Absolutely not. Since you know something about this between the satellite dish and the antenna. So it's a bowl shaped dish which means it's transmitting a microwave signal to another dish somewhere else. So it's a point to point. So it may be that they're taking data the easiest way to get data from some other tower to that tower because it has maybe fiber optic connection to the network. So that's the easiest way to get it. I was just curious because normally they're just these long thin things that you know sit around on the outside of something like water towers. They have that too. They never work. Well, no. Yeah. We got our own tower. Okay. Well it's good to have someone on the council that even knows what to ask. No, I was really I mean I read through that. I'm glad that they're improving the technology because there needs to be more bandwidth you know for greater data. What did you say Pat? Why aren't we asking them to? I mean if this is something that they're doing some improvements at this time I mean to ask is never wrong. No it's not. I wouldn't know where to start. I wouldn't know where to start. Well if we have lack of coverage in the southeast quadrant that sounds like a starting point. It could be. Right. I mean we could always deny this and ask them to tell us why they don't have decent coverage in the southeast quadrant. I would too. That would be a better idea. Will you follow up to find out? Yeah, we'll see. We'll talk to the providers about getting better coverage. Sure. I'll ask about the microwave. Just curious. Thank you. So we have a motion and a second to approve the consent agenda of the minutes from October 2nd. There's no further discussion. All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Great. Moving on to Council's reports from committee assignments. Just two really for the CCTA one we were broken into over the weekend. So yeah there was some vandalism that looked like they were ruffling around for petty cash and they did some damage to some flat screens but I just heard about it this morning. The other piece of my announcement is Mark Sousa is scheduled to come before us. He's our new general manager as of last January. He's coming before us at the November 20th meeting to give his annual presentation and a budget estimate of sorts. Great. Okay. And Pat? Okay. To the report on and I haven't gotten an update on the minutes from the PAC meeting. I didn't know whether you wanted to add anything but we had a representative he will be here with us in January at our meeting which has a changed date. I'm sorry with the pension because it's shorter. And we're doing fine. I mean the market has had good returns. We can't count on that forever as we know. Certainly we are very curious, we're very curious as to what other communities, municipalities are doing. There was no suggestion from SEI who is our manager for any changes in our allocations. Matter of fact we have done quite well and so on a point to point basis maybe July it didn't look as great as it does when you take a look at where we're coming in for year end, right Tom? We're hoping to keep that market going. This is a real wood though I know. And you know they were all with us on the smoothing end for us to be able to better plan as to how much is being deposited into our pension account for the year. We did some discussion on and I don't have the minutes but the numbers of folks that would be getting through there was a change in allocation on those that had left with small balances in their account that those would be now up to 25,000 anyone before it was 10,000 I believe and if it was 10,000 or less they would be offered a check to take and roll over to another plan now it's 25,000 it's beneficial not only to the employee if you think about it that if someone has left and there's a small pension left at one place or another and another it can be very cumbersome at a future time so I think the 25,000 is a good amount I think it's something that hits and we know that those folks that are leaving with 25 or less we have no future obligation to once that piece is committed and I mean there may be other benefits that go but that particular part is no longer ours to have to maintain for them I don't know if there was any other pieces that came out of it Tom so we'll be back to the council one more time you've approved those both the recommendations but we'll be incorporating the new language to the pension plan and then you also have to re-approve that document we may have that for the next meeting we'll see that soon can that money if it's less than 25,000 dollars be rolled into the 401k yes or an IRA they can do either so the meeting was brief really we went over the items they come in they're all well prepared and to answer all of our questions and then some and we'll look forward to having their full compliment here for the council to review in January there was an airport commission meeting and while I'll give you a couple of the highlights I guess because we cover a lot there was good news to be had a couple of larger planes coming in now what does that mean to us it probably what it means is there are fewer cancellations that would happen in the wintertime as a result of that when you have what they call more like mainline planes that are larger than the small engine ones and that could mean as much as an uptick in 10 to 20 percent more seats that could be available for that the biggest piece though is the size of the plane being a little larger you notice like when you fly on a jet blue plane versus a small you know local well a regional you know 25 seat one so I'm not using jet blue it just is a size comparison there but I think by having that what it's done is it is stated that the airlines are looking at more productivity coming out of the Vermont area and that was a positive piece we have a part on the agenda and they also talked about what was happening on the the air guard side of the airport I asked if we could have an air guard representative at one of our next meetings whether it will be the meeting on the 15th of November or not is yet to be determined I haven't heard back but I asked to have someone come in I felt that in hearing what the South Burlington Business Association was presented at the meeting in talking about the changes that are made to the runway runway taxiway type piece I thought it would be interesting for that to be presented not only to the airport commission but because we are now taped it would be out there for everyone to hear and while I didn't make the SBBA meeting in hearing about it I thought it was relevant for the commission to hear about that as you know that there is a piece on the agenda for South Burlington to get updated and I asked a lot of questions because I wanted to know I did not make the meeting that I think you're going to report on Kevin the noise meeting but I wanted to find out where we stood in decision making and what we might have to add so that when the FAA takes this on after the six months of meetings that we would have here and after the period of time when we can comment open comment period the FAA gets 18 months to make a decision on the mitigation type and what is being funded what I found out was the FAA wants the decisions coming from the public and not from elected or appointed officials now that being said of course I came back with no what we want to have to say you know and how this goes and apparently the FAA is looking for those that live in the area to say what they would like for mitigation and so what I am trying to do as best I can and as I hope we can bring out from the city is to have as many people participate and there is a list that gets notified of the meetings to come and talk about their concerns and what they would see not just to be our voice but if the FAA is going to put a bigger ear to the residents versus the council let's say then we need people speaking out and we need them carrying our message and that's apparently what's going to drive the FAA that's their process unfortunately or fortunately or however as it is now I was pleased to see that there was going to be more involvement and I was a little dismayed though I do understand now because I got answers on it that there was a number of communications that went between the superintendent and the airport as far as getting mitigation done or sound mitigation of some type done for the school as soon as possible we still are under the time frame of the FAA to get that done and reluctantly I guess some of this we may have to accept but accept it with the fact that if we can't do plan A and have an answer and say this is coming from us what we would like then we need those that live in the area i.e. Megan you live there I live there others I'm sorry I'm talking about that area that we need the folks that are affected to say what they would like and if I'm looking at this and saying if a number of people think Burns is the answer then I want the FAA to tell us why Burns would work or don't work and where they have and could they work and could we use some of the money for that if it is going to be the windows I've had several people contact me and I said listen it's not a quick fix this is a six month till we get our information in through these meetings and then they get 18 months now it doesn't mean that they're going to take the whole 18 but if we look at what their past history is they say it doesn't move that fast in order to get this done apparently the approval process to make the change means that the buying stops the buying for demolition or whatever stops and it switches to the mitigation piece and so I'm bringing the message in that our message needs to be that we need people attending speaking out learning about and finding what are the resources as best we know them now that would be available and that they speak out in favor of having those and finding out what happens but I think the comment period is going to be extremely important too once the answers are once these six meetings or however they they doesn't believe it's six and six or seven but to find out that St. Michael's and others are going to be involved somehow or other in the process either they will be on filling in or they will be in presence there to represent the sides but that is it's six meetings left until the final documents are then 180 days on the review there will be a public comment and as well so in pushing it forward my feeling was that getting people out there to say what they want is going to be the important thing so if we don't get to carry the banner for what we would like to see directly then we need to have Syracuse doing it for us that's my piece coming through seems like the PTO at Chamberlain my field will generate new commentary and attendance I know the one item with the school and I'd like to just add that because the letters have gone out there can't be any mitigation pieces done apparently for the school until after this process these six months go through and the FAA affords it so as much as we might like to have something for the school looks like it's going to be a ways out but isn't that part of the recommendation it would be the recommendation but we're still under the time frame well how will the airport be communicating to the residents who live in the area through those meetings but how will they know about the meetings oh well I think they've sent out I got things in the mail I got things in the mail that said things were coming did you get it in the last meeting just recently no no no for the months ago and I think that's what their intention is is that those are supposed to be going out for all meetings ahead of time I can verify that but for the best of my knowledge it was there were a number of avenues that they were using and one was direct I don't want to say a flyer but a direct piece that went to the homeowners I think the question last time too was the timing right that the notice was given with just a little bit of time for people to really you know alert others how can I ask if there can be a little better notice on them right and then from porch forum could be used PTO I don't know how active to be honest I'm not sure what they used but I think one of the items is there had been a the complaint that not everyone had access to the internet and they felt that a direct piece going to their home oh yes but I think that more that the information is you know lands in your mailbox on their site and I thought that they were I don't know if they notified the other paper or not but I will find out notifications earlier I just wonder if you can do like even a survey monkey on the porch forum in that neighbor rate to get you know illicit more comments or structured so people can say yeah I like the idea of burns, yeah I like the idea of simple air conditioning or you know whatever it is well if and to get that kind of public feedback because I think it's hard to ask the public to I don't know constantly go to meetings you know people are sometimes shy about getting up and saying I really want thicker doors and better windows I mean they don't even know what the options are but if in fact they want the noise to go away I'm just heading on my agenda tonight pardon me? it'll be taped I mean this is part of Patrick's report but we're also talking about it on the agenda later on the item also the item too with people attending I think when you attend a meeting it takes some of the clarity and brings it in focus for you because you can think that the burn will do something and then you go and find out that the burn is great for the ground noise but as soon as you know you get 30 feet in the air you know you have the noise and it doesn't it only mitigates a piece of that so that's true when it goes over ours would be gone by then it's the ground noise right so it depends on where you are it is true one more request from Patrick because I think that the city offices did not get word about the meeting they truly communicated to the residents but I think it would be helpful well we have representatives from here that represent us on that committee so they might know I presume yep great thank you any other meeting report okay I had a question sure I'm sorry to piggyback a little bit I meant to ask under the city managers update actually the cost of the PFOA testing that the city now is incurring for the landfill you were going to look into that I was going to look into that I did look into that I think Justin do you have an update on that would you be okay if Justin came up Justin did look into this a little bit thank you Justin Rabbit of the public works department our landfill post closure permitting requirements have changed with the recent discovery of PFOA from the airport and some of the manufacturing area old businesses in that area I believe it's added $4,000 to each round of sampling and we sample twice a year and as the permit holder do the responsibilities get placed upon us to test our in this case our landfill the state's concern is the groundwater reaching out of the landfill even though we collect it at a pump station and send it right over the sewer plant for treatment their concern is so it's kind of a universally state applying and they don't really look at what the conditions of each site are but it's roughly $8,000 a year for as a general fund the question I got is why does it fall on this to these shoulders when it is primarily from the airport why does it not go to well it's not we have to test for PFOA anyway I think maybe this question is additionally are we doing additional testing at our landfill because of what's going on at the airport and around the corner but else there there was some PFOA from the old wire manufacturing encoding businesses there in the mid-1900s we're the regulated entity whether it's storm water, wastewater drinking water we're not the origin of any of these pollutants we're the ones that are asked to monitor for them we've never done I guess we can always be made we test for hundreds and hundreds of things across our responsibilities with the public works that none of them originate from our operations it's more just about public health if the council directs the manager we could inquire with other folks who should actually be paying for this one thing and I guess you could ask the same question about a lot of the pollutants that we're asked to monitor anyways I think people have been asking us who are in the state who should be responsible for it I do agree that our airport is not just a city owned operation it's a regional and state asset I think it's worth asking the question is this now into the future or is it just a certain number of years out for the additional testing usually it takes once you're asked to test or anything there needs to be a long documented history of kind of a non-detect in fact these things tend to not go away I think it's worth asking the question about specifically who is liable for the cost of that additional testing because PFOA was found in the groundwater so the question I suppose would be if they had not found PFOA at the airport on the National Guard side Justin do you believe we would be asked to monitor for this now? Yes because they did they found it over on Marar Drive unrelated to airport operations so there are multiple contributors in the area of which the airports and the Guard side of it is one of them But isn't it okay to ask one of them that you know who's still in business I mean the wire factories are not gone they're still in the area but they're not here right but the the Air Force is still in full glory right? from the Air Guard I would broaden this conversation and I was going to bring this up in the discussion point later on but I think it's appropriate right now the city of Burlington charges the airport enterprise fund services and time that they spend working on airport issues this body, this community, this city spends a lot of time on airport issues but we're not charging the airport enterprise fund so I think what you raise I want to extend it to I'd love to start tracking all the time we spend dedicated to airport specific issues so that we could have a more informed conversation when we interact with the aviation director about what the city of South Burlington spends time wise including the PFOA these are specifically to the airport does that make sense what I just said we're just looking at the cost that our community is bearing supporting that regional asset inside of our borders beyond just PFOA, other time and the attention that we spend but again I was just charging them I just like to know I would like to quantify I know it consumes a great deal of my attention I don't know how much for the staff of the city spends on airport related issues but if we're going to start looking at PFOA I'd just love to have a figure around that number I'd like to find out if Kevin we've heard anything or Justin on the smack part that is on the airport side that is the from the old fueling area they got their letter did they get the letter so Rob cleared on that that's my understanding okay great because I had talked with a consultant directly after I asked the question is that a meeting and I wanted to find out and this was the old fueling area and they had to have boring stunts several times and eventually and now we find out they got signed off on that because whatever was potentially could have been coming down through Mother Nature has currently cleared it up to the extent that it is not going to be problematic for us with cell phone so they got their smack is it a simulation yes it will see something okay so we're not talking about that just the just the people okay is there any more discussion about the intersection of airport parkway this is regardless would you like me to address that during my CIP presentation because it's yeah there's a bunch of money alright we move on now to item 11 which is presentation by department oh I'm sorry excuse me awarding the design contract for a liner's city hall building in the center of Solana thanks thank you very much oh you're part of this too I'm going to give my chair good evening Alana Blanchard project director project director Alana Blanchard city and my medication has affected my hearing some so I would appreciate your and using a loud voice and I'm here with Margaret and Cross he's the board of trustees chair I have a presentation but I wanted to give a brief introduction to the agenda item and let Margaret and speak and then I have a very short presentation about our recommendation so so last year per the agreement with the library board of trustees and the city council the project team which is composed of myself Justin Ravadu Jennifer Murray and I represented our trustees Mark Cole here we began meeting to work on the RFQ for a library and at one point it was library city hall recreation center and then by September when we had when you had approved securing a site for this building it became a library city hall so this is all that in preparation for 2020 construction of the building and so we were very excited about the site but we had to get that RFQ out and start looking for a design team to work with the community and the staff and the project team and the many stakeholders and develop a set of construction documents so that this could be built so we had we issued the RFQ in September we had many very qualified consultants submit as part of teams we received eight teams it was a very very competitive process and that both made it very hard for the project team but also very exciting when approved two rounds so the first round was qualifications the second round was reviewing proposals and we interviewed four teams as part of the second round over two days and and the project team was an unanimous agreement as to the recommendations it was very clear that one of the teams had the most experience in library design and was also very highly qualified in the other areas but really stood out when it came to library design and the RFQ was very specific about wanting a design team that really was going to be very sensitive to things like noise and lighting design thinking about a future library and working with the community to really capture the needs of the community and reflect that in a building that was a civic building that was very representative of the city so so we made that recommendation and I'm going to turn it over to Margaret and Proth to talk about that thank you so I'm very happy to be here tonight several members of our board and fundraising committee are here as well to bring you our recommendation for a team of firms architectural firms that will take us on the next steps toward a public vote for a new library and city center the firms were initially recommended to the board sorry by the committee that Alana described one two one very good you must be a mother you can do a couple things and I would like to thank the members of that committee for all of their time it really was hours and hours of work so Mark Full from our board Jennifer the library director Alana and Justin we're especially excited that these firms have both local talent and national library expertise most importantly they appear to be very good at working with communities to design libraries that are as unique as the populations are so the reason we're here tonight is to ask you to start that process so the firms will engage the community in a way that we are so excited about getting started on we've done visioning in the past but this will be a very specific process with a very specific goal of leading us to a design for a new library that voters can review and consider and we hope to approve so the firms are Wyman-Lampier and Humphreys-Coley last Monday after hearing the presentation that you'll hear from Alana tonight our board voted unanimously to move this forward for your consideration so thank you thank you how many did you consider the committee considered a total after the release was there a close second or was it a blowout from what I understand it was a blowout to some degree there were I should let Alana I was not on the committee but from what I understand it was this firm stood out the partnership really stood out because they had that local connection and then this firm what blew everyone away from what I understand was one of the representatives from the firm one of the named partners from the firm in Colorado I believe is that right so Humphreys-Coley who was just just the way he engaged with our committee that we envisioned our committee envisioned him engaging the community in that way just a very exciting process they're doing some very innovative things with libraries in Denver so we're excited to see what they can do for us and really the focus on making the library reflect the community we saw lots of examples of fun pieces of libraries parts of libraries that really reflected so gardens there was one that was connected to the aviation industry the community was very invested in that where there was a flight simulator in the library and things like that they really tried to bring the community into what they were what they ended up with is it typical for two architectural firms to join together for one for what I understand for that library piece of it so obviously eight firms that were considered seven of them I believe or partnerships where they had a local partner and then one someone with extensive library makes sense the local people have an understanding so very briefly we have okay so this is the team the Dennis Humphries is with Humphries Holy Architects he is the type of person that you really want in front of a large crowd and to engage the community and to really listen to people and pull out the best of a community as part of the design process Steve Roy and Tim Duff will be the main project managers and Michael Minodeo is more on the design side and Kelly, thanks Roshas who actually worked on the police station and in the police station will be the support person she's since moved to Wayman Land here so they're they're proposing a very compressed and extensive public involvement process and it's really about thinking outside the box that both libraries and city halls in as no way as possible it may mean that you end up with a very traditional library because that is really what works for the city or traditional city hall but taking some time to look at alternatives and this as Margaret Ann mentioned one community had an airport in their community and so they just happened to end up with French flight simulator in their library because somebody called somebody and they were able to bring it in and it's more popular with the adults and the children although it isn't the ones so this community was very really wanted a tree house and so for ADA they constructed these very accessible spaces that have bark and wood and are similar to trees not exactly a tree but and they showed us pictures of people reading I cut out a lot of the slides but just to take you through really presenting many alternatives and not just in the schematics and conceptual for the community but so every part of their design process if they're looking at wall assemblies they'll look at various options to figure out with the city and with the construction manager what is the most cost effective and also energy efficiency and sustainability lifestyle cost considerations this is a project that we've in landfair worked on the BPR headquarters where the addition is a net zero building they have a great track record in terms of lead and looking at the performance the energy performance of buildings as does their whole team I didn't go through all of their subs but they have about 7 subs as part of their team meaning civil engineering logistics etc so they are very focused on the experience but they also have a lot of experience they've done over 80 libraries as I mentioned and that really showed during the process and their ability to answer questions and give examples of different ways this had been certain concepts or issues had been approached by different communities so they really bring a lot to the table and then Wayman Landfair has a lot of experience working with public clients and building projects online and in budget although the BPR building as per both the client and the site conditions was not under budget but they built a lot of police stations that are under budget we hopefully are not on the side of an army base so Humphrey Tully as I said has a lot of experience including a city offices with the public library I'll just show you a few pictures they work really hard to build their spaces so that you have the least staff needed in order to have very big public spaces they use a lot in terms of materials and color and design to distinguish different areas and separate them while still having them be visible to staff they also on this particular project they were able to carry some of the design features upstairs so that it doesn't have the same level of finish as the public spaces but the office spaces still feel like they're part of the same community they are very excited about design and this is an example of a design that was designed one way to be a fireplace and it ended up being a stage this is a front porch for a library and everyone's resting after a square dance or during a square dance that's in the parking lot it's now 8 o'clock I don't know if it's okay so I'm almost done they pay attention to sustainability innovation so this is parent-child desk computer stations that was requested by that particular particular library collaboration they're really into studios for tweens so that's Hangout Homago is Hangout, Mess Around and Geek Out so very interactive spaces in the library and then they have the opportunity to build 6 anything libraries which are very innovative libraries as part of the Denver system that get a lot of press in the library world so people here know about it and then BPR way in life here also has a lot of experience listening to the community and they incorporated a lot of their outreach with their staff in the building such as materials the spaces inviting the public into the public areas it includes a performance center a lot of daylight and a mix of different office styles so very unique building and specific to the client and so and then this is one of their last slides and I left it in even though it doesn't have any pictures on it because it just it has a very nice message and this was certainly the feeling that we were seeing from the team a long question did I read that in the beginning that there are 3 iterations that they will yes there will be 3 alternatives and we asked for 3 alternatives for the floor plan 3 alternatives and for the exterior and 3 alternatives for how the buildings fit together or how the different functions fit together ok are there other questions do we need to take a pause no I think you can just we won't get filmed because we're just going to not have the hearing so we have a resolution that you would like to suggest the resolution authorizing the city manager to negotiate and sign a contract with is it Wyman, Lanfield, architect for freeze, Holy architects for design consultant services for a public facility in the city center so move any further discussion we're looking forward to December 3rd the week of that that's when the workshop is going to be we'll be scheduling it just a lot of time for notice enough time for notice so we have a motion and second it there's no further discussion all in favor signify by saying aye aye great very exciting and thank you all the information you included with us children's going through a similar process they are on both six and a half building a new library and I thought it was interesting to find out the sub-heros in a segregated area away from their school and part of it was for safety because of the safety issue of people accessing the school that was interesting sure well we're leaving the charge here item 11 oh 12 I'm sorry we have to skip a level go to 12 necessity and compensation damages hearing for the market street reconstruction projects I move to close the hearing on necessity and compensation damages pursuant to 19 BSA 709 for the alteration of the town highway right away from market street town highway number 228 second all in favor signify by saying aye aye thank you now we'll go back to 11 presentations by management department managers related to the FY 2019 capital improvement plan yeah kind of kick it off while I get set up there mindful of the guidance that the council gave at the last meeting for putting the FY 19 budget together I just wanted to kind of review for the sake of tonight's discussion what some of the cost drivers were that we identified at the last meeting including the CIP was a slight increase in the stewardship fund a slight increase in the sick bank a significant increase in our health insurance contractual agreements the institution of a stabilization fund and possibly a new position or two which would include the bike and head coordinator and I don't think we've arrived at the title yet but somebody to help Terry Francis who although we'd like to keep him forever is eventually going to retire we need to have somebody trained up with fire inspection so those HRIP positions would move ahead as our top priorities we anticipate a grand list growth of somewhere between one and one and a quarter percent and just the things I talked about aforementioned are in the ballpark of about $800,000 so with that we took a look at the CIP which at the time I spoke with you last was at $438,000 and realized that we needed to cut about $300,000 out of that in terms of an increase over last year's general fund appropriation and we've done that the managers tonight will present the projects or the items that have been recommended by city management and we've encouraged them if they want to talk about any of the ones that have been cut or if the council has any questions about some of the things that have been cut we've not only cut some of the projects we've also delayed some of them and we've transferred some of them and some of the ones that get transferred we feel have eligibility for impact fees and so we moved a couple of those what do you mean by transfer to a different fund well instead of being funded out of the general fund we would fund them out of a special fund like impact fees that we feel that we could make them eligible for with an amendment to the impact fee ordinance so this wouldn't be an overhaul of the impact fee policy but it would be an amendment to the ordinance maybe substituting one project for another because it's more realistic there wouldn't be an increase in impact fees that would be a redefining what the impact fee could cover that's correct so we would probably come to you at some point this winter with that proposal so two of the projects and one of them is the Allen Road sidewalk and the other is the improvements to Baycrest Park so those are the two that we feel would be impact fee eligible so the managers are here tonight to present and I want to thank Martha and Alana for kind of overseeing the process of assembling all this information into the many different spreadsheets that I know the council got the total number of them I think and it's quite a document all put together and we're making those available online as well for anybody who wants that kind of detail it will be there for managers for their work in working within the guidelines that we've given them and also working right now in terms of putting their general fund budget together which is due the end of this week so with that I'd like to turn it over to Martha and Alana to kind of go through a few slides thank you Tom Martha Matar your dependence on stuff so I have given you two hands out the biggest part is the hall sci-fi and the smaller one is the power point that you should use to follow as the department heads present just to make it easy for you so a couple improvement program is a 10 year hand that helps in identifying the needs for the city it is adjusted annually based on the funding sources available and the needs cause the needs change year by year it also helps in setting the priorities depending on how the needs change in the community and for the city as well in better setting everybody in the community when the CIP is approved it is incorporated into the budget in this case the F119 couple improvement program will go into F119 budget once it is approved we recommend that the city council want a public hearing for December 4th city council there is a slide for a few key updates that are different from last year the proposed F119 CIP projects that are funded with general fund is proposed to increase by $115,000 the other things that have changed is that last year we had the communication notes as part of the bonds obligations that has been taken out of the bond cause and it is incorporated into the fire department and also there are a few of the other IT small equipment hardware and software licenses that have been taken out they were in the CIP last year but are taken out right now and they are in the budget and I believe you will see them as you review the budget so I'm just going to give you a big this is sort of the biggest picture distillation of the capital improvement program from a monetary perspective all of the orange bars are the spending that are planned for the city over the next 10 years you can see the next 5 years have very long bars and those are related to city center and the opportunity we have to spend tax increment financing increment but if you look at the blue that's everything that's general fund funded or that comes from the general fund basically from property taxes and so one of the reasons that we look at the 10 years is really to look at keeping that line as straight across as possible so you can see there is a fluctuation it's about a $600,000 fluctuation between the very beginning I'm sorry it's more it's about it gradually comes up and dips comes up and goes down but that's about in the area of a million and as we get closer we work on tightening those gaps between the bars so that's probably the most important thing about looking at 10 years besides planning for expenditures Alana are the second 5 years are they as tall as they are shorter than the first 5 are they taller because of the expansion of public infrastructure and buildings so it's more related to to maintenance well yeah that's right so we build a new library and we build a new city hall and it costs a little bit more to maintain them so for example we have a spare street that becomes that's a big maintenance cost so if we reconstruct spare street beyond just a repaving of spare street items like that there's some sidewalks, some recreation although you'll see most of those are grant funded but even still each of those costs do have some general fund things like fire trucks so they're not related to necessarily the enormous spending we'll have in the city center and there's about and maybe we'll do this for the public hearing but it might be we can take a few of the cost drivers and put them line stack them up also so we can put city center so city center tops off I believe at about 20 million in one year so on top of that 20 million we do receive a lot of grants and other other other funds so we get a lot of our capital projects do get funding from other sources this 70 million tiff bubble over the next five years is that all 13 projects if we would do them so that's like the bike head bridge the brick center the city hall so and so I sort of misspoke because the orange is not general fund so any of the grants for recreation pass or any other sidewalk project where we expect to receive grant funding that would be represented in the orange and are the tiff funds they're not considered general fund they're not they're a separate fund so the 860 that's contributed each year that's then I would just ask one question is there any place that we would have to compare to at least show what anticipated funds would be coming in to offset the orange bars and and it's not it's not here but I can pull it out I know it's not here but is there any way that we would have I mean because you know taking a look at it kind of gives you a little gasp if you look at the big handout that Martha gave you it's the second page of that big handout and that's all of the costs we'll get to that and we can maybe at the end I'm the last presenter so I was looking through that takes a little reading yes we can look at it at the end if you would like so so Justin is going to present highway and parks maintenance among some other hello again I think there's a half hour for this whole presentation so I'm going to stick to FY19 and answer questions on any out year projects I'm going to kind of highlight on what's in the FY19 budget within highway and parks this basically is what it looks like every year and what it will look like every year going forward with some basically we're paving roads and we're buying trucks we have also identified this CIP as the proper location for the newly established facility stewardship fund so those projects will run through this CIP those projects you know there's a variety of funding sources for those we have we've done a bunch already this year and we could go in a lot of different directions in the coming years but I would certainly expect efficiency related projects ADA compliance code compliance to really be the focus this isn't meant to be a new facilities or addition this is kind of maintenance and upkeep of our existing assets may I ask a question I thought I heard from somebody that we level funded our paving budget over the last five years is that correct and is this a departure from that we I think this is the first year that we've gone up we're proposing to go up 25,000 it's been 575,000 for the recent years which that number is higher that there was a bump probably four or five years ago to get to that level it's been at that level for a while and now what we're proposing I think consistent with what we've been hearing from council is a modest increase every year we can tell people we're spending more money on paving starting at a point 19 if we approve this but that is still significantly under what we've heard in past years that to be ideal or close to that we should be up closer to a million a year if you do the straight line math on number of miles we have times what the preferred maintenance schedule should be it's closer to seven figures but that's probably true with everything if it was optimal we'd be spending a whole lot more on paving versus reconstruction they all fall within this category there's generally three different treatments we use when we are repaving a road but they all fall into this funding source these are our recreation paths which differ a bit from the sidewalk there's a little bit of overlap in now sidewalks are becoming rec paths so we might look to merge some of these various features going forward through discussions with the bicycle and pedestrian committee we have identified what their top priority was and that's reflective both within this CIP as well as in our sidewalk CIP presently the priority of the bicycle and pedestrian committee is to and you've heard from this constituency as well is to extend the existing bike path on Dorset Street south of Nolan farm past Cider Mill and the CIP is reflective of that a lot of the other things that you see in kind of years two three and four generally are also in alignment with what those recommendations are and I think Tom Hubbard mentioned a little bit ago about Alan Road sidewalks this is the upper section of Alan Road so from Spear Street down to the first neighborhood on your right as you're heading west on Alan Road with the understanding that we have new development continuing to occur on and off Alan Road as well as south village phases one two is under construction three is under permitting three is actually going to connect all the way to Dorset Street so as our system builds we identify gaps this is one of the gaps in the system and it's a project we're looking to to get moving next year I believe Councilor Barrett asked for a quick update on where did it go on the Lime Hill Airport Parkway Lime Hill Road Marlekeen of the Planning and Zoning Office and myself met with some base personnel about two months ago they have without kind of putting it on paper because I don't get the sense they're a granting agency like that but they have committed to this project their proportional share of traffic through the intersection so to that end on their busiest day of the month which is obviously their everyone comes to base guard weekend which is December 3rd and 4th so to that end we're actually going to be counting vehicles with some cameras that first weekend in December so we can determine overall volume their volume and we can clearly define what their share is whether or not the remainder of the share still makes it a palpable project for the city relative to all these other ones but presently that's how it's shown and that's the methodology they have agreed to they basically just want to serve in the capacity of the check writing agency they they're not a grant partner they would let us run the project they would want to just be tangentially involved to make sure for example the size of their vehicles can move through the intersection but beyond that they didn't really express an interest to do anything other than see an upgrade there and contribute financially well the second part of that's pretty important it's the check the check no problem and you've heard me say probably for the last 18 months now the real focus of our wastewater fund two things one is Bartlett Bay plant which it's either this year or next year Tom we're retiring the $245,000 a year bond payment from the last project and then the wastewater rolled all that means is once you're done paying off the debt from old project it's pretty much time for a new project so as you can see here we are starting with some low dollar figures to scope and do some conceptual design and in the mid 20s an upgrade and possible hydraulic capacity expansion to Bartlett Bay the other project is disconnecting the Hadley Proctor Avenue neighborhood from the Burlington sewer system that neighborhood customers of Burlington and for the benefit of the audience yes that's a lot of money however compared to the 20-year life cycle of what we would pay in sewer fees to Burlington this project is projected to save the city of South Burlington wastewater ratepayers over $8 million over that 20-year period and it's going to be cash positive probably by the beginning of year two so we would obviously we would be paying this with a bond we're not writing a $2 million check in year one so we'd be cash positive in year two and we'd be making saving millions and millions of dollars by connecting to our Bartlett Bay plant and that's going to be my speech for sewer for the next three or four years so is the Heinsberg Road PS means pump station that is a pump station is that for water pressure no so sewer sewer gets to our plant in two ways by gravity or pump in the sewer world the pump station is when you're fighting gravity and you have to force it and that's why you need it out there but we will talk about a water pump station in a bit stormwater same story from years past the message is consistent this year at the end of the season we had five or six the fact that I'm losing track of the amount of big dollar projects is indicative of what's happening in that fund we had probably two to three million dollars of active work throughout the summer that number is going to continue to increase this is simply compliance with our MS floor permits for five impaired watersheds and quickly the asterisk relative to fleet replacement you see that number fluctuates because we don't want to be raising or lowering our rates so wildly every year within the operating budget of the stormwater fund we just slide two hundred thousand dollars a year into the reserves some years pay less some years pay more but we have rates built into our program for that reason and water we're getting near the end of some of you at least councillor emory might remember the beginning of this we're getting near the end of our long meter replacement and meter reader radio program which is none of the stuff we do is exciting but we were experiencing severe water loss water loss through our meters we weren't losing water we were losing the ability to track the water going in and out somewhere in the 15% range you want to low single digits is kind of an industry standard so we were not being able to account for roughly 10% of our revenues so this is another another project where spending a hundred thousand dollars a year over the life cycle of the devices is going to save money because we couldn't properly count the water coming into your houses dorset street east tank booster station this is a newer project development is occurring in the southeast quadrant it's getting near elevations where I have questions about our ability to provide adequate water pressure and adequate water pressure is entirely different than the state plumbing code state plumbing code has a very paltry number that no one would be happy coming out of a shower head especially no matter what you pay for the houses particularly if you're paying in the mid six figures or some of these houses so we are going to be adding pressure and elevation to the dorset street water tank right by the golf course all that means is right now our operational level the water tank is this we're going to go to here which is going to provide more downward pressure on the system we tried to avoid this expense by working with Champlain water district over the last nine months to see if we could just raise the level of the tank well unfortunately we're not their only customer and if you raise our tank level you're raising tank levels and adding pressure system wide there's a lot of parts of the system that aren't in South Burlington that really could not handle an additional 15 feet of elevation head so they are and were great partners on this we tried to find a really low cost solution unfortunately it didn't work so we're going to be proposed to bind for these improvements and we also during the operating budget we want to talk to you about having a tiered connection fee system for water right now it's $1200 every house to check for $1200 to our water fund to go and pay to the debt of the system this project is being necessitated by anyone that's building at 430 feet above sea level or higher we think it might be worth considering the surcharge to the properties that are requiring these improvements and we can have that discussion debate in the future is there precedent for that in neighboring communities? certainly our rate system is pretty straightforward has it already been fixed the south point issue that came up a couple years ago when Snyder went in to build the four condos when they knocked down the red house the neighbors all complained about water pressure this will fix they're all related the eastern end of south point you start getting into the 420s so it's Vale Drive, it's south point it's Cytermill, Cytermill 3 it's that whole part of town but no it hasn't been fixed and we haven't been able to induce new pressure in the system I believe thank you Justin next time he comes in I'm glad we just do one thank you so what we see here is for FY19 vehicle replacement that's the last year a loan that we took from an in-house loan to pay for a fire truck that was bought and so we'll be making the final payment back to Justin for that equipment breaks down into different categories we have an air compressor which was delayed purchase from last year which is 50,000 year 2 of the fire gear replacement program 34,000 last year we had put money in the budget for a new standby generator at station 2 and we went out to bed and we were short we put in $12,500 and it's really going to be about a $25,000 purchase so Tom encumbered the money from last year to this next year and we're putting in the additional funds to finish that project but to actually do that project and then the fourth amount of money is $20,000 for hydraulic rescue tool replacement which adds up to the $117,000 which you see there on the screen is $2,000 completion and renovation project $116,000 that you see there is money from fire impact fees and then in FY20 you see $59,000 which together we'll pay for that project the idea that Tom came up with is towards the end of FY19 start the project and then we would kick over into the new year as of July 1 of 2020 and we would pay the remaining amount then and the last project here is I was told that I did such a good job managing the communication project that we would put the payment for the bond into the fire department budget that's how that ended up there the sugar can add that to your resume I'm not going to need a resume, believe me so anyway so that's the slide in the ambulance there is no expenditures for next year at all I had five sheets so you had one too that's great I certainly answer any questions that you had hearing none I'll get out of the way and let the next question how are we doing on our revenues from the ambulance fund I know that's probably up how are we doing on our revenues from the ambulance fund just as a general actually we ended up I don't have the exact figures in front of me we ended up last year very well okay I can't give you the exact figures off the top of my head I know we had a number of problems trying to get collections in and trying different resources we've done really well we've done really well I'm pleased with the return that we're getting we engaged the collection agency a couple of years ago and they're working very hard for us we're bringing in a lot of money from that so just at some point in time I was thinking that Medicare and Medicaid or whatever if we knew if they were paying their share I know that's always been a question and it's not for tonight necessarily Doug maybe when we go into the general fund budget I can talk more about revenues then does one care affect ambulance services just what? one care I'm not sure how that's going to be just curious no idea that's not part of the CIP though it's not I will reserve that for another time we'll discuss that later thank you thank you dad we are going to move on to the police we got the cover wake up step lively good evening good evening Trevor Whipple your chief of police I want to thank the fire department for taking on the radio project we appreciate that ours is short and easy vehicles and IT when we look at the sheet you obviously see the police department that service it's beyond my control we're into that it's happening and we're paying it off as time goes and we continue to appreciate that every day vehicle replacement fund got trimmed here a little bit from what we asked not super problematic I had asked to start to transition to SUVs the Ford explorers have become kind of not even the new wave anymore they've finally developed a four wheel drive vehicle that's extremely safe for police work it's bigger it's all wheel drive that would put us at $188,000 and when Tom and Kevin all that looked across the broad spectrum of CIP the decision was to continue the fleet replacement with this similar type of vehicle that we have now although this does have a little bit of an add up to go to they finally have changed the platform of the charger so that the all wheel drive comes in the six cylinder you don't have to buy the super large V8 so this is the all wheel drive charger so it's the middle of my request would prefer in the perfect world we started to roll out into SUVs but understanding the need for budgetary constraint this certainly this provides us with four vehicles we were trimmed back this year because of some constraints we only replaced two we lost one in a crash that we weren't able to replace so we took a little hit current year we'll see a little bit of an increase in maintenance cost because of that but this the 142 will allow us to replace four in the coming year with sedan vehicles in FY 20 do you go toward the so again in 20 we did not massage out the going forward but the 184 that would be the full price of SUVs in 20 and forward and we'll revisit that next year at this time and see how things are going so just wanted you to know I don't have a complaint by any means against Tom and Kevin I understand where we are and I think that this is a step above where we are today it's not the big step I had hoped for but it's a step we have any SUVs now we have only one in the fleet we bought one we wanted to make sure that we had we have the truck and the Ford Explorer SUV that's used as a supervisory vehicle with this plan if this is passed and goes forward this would give us four four-wheel drive sedans not as roomy as an SUV but a little more functional than what we have today today we just have rear-wheel drive sedans so there can be a little bit of a challenge or pretty good challenge depending on the weather so this gets us gets us headed besides road handling is there any other operational benefits to the larger size SUVs they're actually on the same platform as the sedan so the handling is the same the benefit is the the extra cabin size is the that's really the addition it's extra room when we look at the chargers and you look at putting somebody in the back seat and also we've got some some tall guys you know it's a little bit of a tight fit in the front the SUV gives us more passenger space and with this proposal we're gaining the all-wheel drive that we have not had that option was not available until this year so this gets us the all-wheel drive doesn't get us the extra cabin space but we are moving we're bettering where we are today in the coming year last question with all the computer gadgetry in the screens the police officer vehicles is the SUV cabin space attractive for greater safety and all those consoles certainly room moving around we actually have started to go to a little more streamlined technology we did initially have the full mobile data terminals which required a pretty large mount and you know it's a full size computer with the flip top we have for all except the cars that have the license plate readers we've transitioned to the iPads those are cheaper they're more functional for the officer they're more mobile we can take them in we can take them to a crime scene picture they're internet connected so yeah and the only other thing that we have there that $89,000 is a plethora of IT things that includes our in-house device replacements whether it be printers or desktop computers it adds some mobile device replacements in the cars so the iPads in the cars it also is the majority of our IT services our email contract our service contracts on our fingerprint machine our voice recorder machine and a bunch of other things our IT support it's generally probably 85% of our IT expense is in that $89 capital piece thank you Maggie Lugers, recreation and parks Holly Reese, recreation and parks so I just wanted to say both Holly Baker and I put the CIP together with input also from both our committees from natural resources and for recreation and parks and recreation and parks actually reviewed this three times so I thought it was important for City Council to know that the involvement was pretty extensive and with no further ado I think we'll go ahead we're going to tag team on this tonight if that's okay I'm going to take a couple of the first ones if we can look at Underwood I'm not going to say a whole lot about Underwood other than we're in the process of doing the master plan right now so you're not going to see for a couple of years anything until FY22 we're hoping to be able to present to City Council in February the master plan so please look forward to that so we're in the process of doing that right now the first public input that we had and the online survey that we did we ended up having about almost 200 people that have participated in that so that's really really good so stay tuned the next thing I wanted to talk about was just about the internal park way finding signage for really that goes all the way for the next 10 years and a lot of it over the next for this year in the next years will be related to the open space funding because we really haven't had a chance right now to be able to get that completed like in Red Rocks or at Wheeler Park so I think that's really important for you to know so it's Wheeler Underwood and Red Rocks Underwood obviously is going to be determined on what the master plan brings us also all of our other parks will need some new way finding signage that will be following our branding so I just wanted to fill you in on that and then the next one is related to our facilities and if you see that's kind of gone down a little bit and then it will go back up because of the fact that we have the open space funding right now some of that funding has been able to go down but it will as you see as we start going back up in your FY23 moving forward that we'll go back up because that's all of the money that we utilize to make sure fields are in good shape with lining, aerating them with our water systems and then also for our playground with playground safety and replacing equipment as we go along so that funding is going to stay pretty steady from basically FY I would say 2223 and then we'll continue to go up just a little bit I'm going to turn the next one over to Holly Sure, so the South Village soccer field which we've been hearing a lot about for several years it really is coming and we're excited for that so in FY19 there's some money for some design work to be done and then we anticipate really breaking ground and getting some things done in 20 and 21 so in addition to the actual field itself there's proposal for a couple outbuildings that we would then have bathroom access to as well so still in development for that but we anticipate putting some funds towards the design of that for 19 So is the total 300,000 does that include the bathrooms? Yeah Is it grass or turf? It'll be grass I don't know if soccer fields were that expensive Holy moly We could hardly wait until that field gets on board but I think in working with Ireland Construction really being able to have that as a full piece and not piece milling it together it makes sense to be doing it this way so we'll be glad when that gets online which will take us a couple of years so and then I'm just going to kind of briefly just talk just for a second on Overlook Park because we know that Overlook Park needs some TLC for sure and as you can see some things you'll see some good things happening I think this year just to do some basic things and then in FY 21 we're looking at really overhauling that park so I just wanted the city council to know that we're really taking a look at that park and just knowing that it really needs some good renovations over there Any questions on that? Okay let's see where are we? JC Park not a whole lot to discuss on that right now other than in FY 21 we're looking at doing a master plan for that park we also have to be careful about that because it also has LWCF funding which is land water conservation funding so there are parts that you can't really do a whole lot of changes too and maybe Tom can kind of explain that a little bit better than myself but we are looking at taking a real hard look at that park and trying to put a new master plan together for the park for the future so that'll happen in hopefully 2021 let's see wow I'm up again Red Rocks Park again that is continuing with our open space improvements as of right now we have spent about $100,000 out of the open space funding we're running a little bit behind but the reason you see that number being really high is because we really need to get some significant work we've got some erosion problems going down to the beach that we really need to have some significant work done and we're going to need to do some engineering work related to that Next up is the veterans memorial park upgrade nothing for 19 but you'll see in 20 a significant bump that has a lot to do with the bathroom renovation so currently the bathrooms are functional sometimes semi-functional definitely not sufficient to meet the needs of the park and the population at this point so Adam Cate has been doing a lot of research for that so you'll see a lot of that in addition to some safety lighting that we're hopeful to install at the band shell I go to Callahan park for greater Burlington soccer league and I love their little concession stand as we look to improve that bathroom do you see an opportunity for just an enclosed space with countertop that nonprofit entities could sell Costco based goods Yeah I think already the South Burlington little league does have a little hut over by their ball fields I know they would like to have kind of a more permanent structure as you're talking about I think it leaves room for a lot of different amenities and elements there and again just a really bustling park and we need some amenities to sustain that going down next is the Wheeler homestead so that basically is going to continue to do the open space improvements that the council has already approved and that's just that funding source so we'll continue to chip away at those and then Baycrest which you heard a little bit earlier is phase one is to get that path in and get some benches which will be done hopefully by springtime you know because of the storm that happened with public works it kind of set us back a little bit on being able to accomplish that if there's time we will at least get phase one done phase two is related also to impact fees that we'll be hoping to do by next spring too and that's been long and coming and I think people are really looking forward to having that park that little park park in that particular neighborhood completed and next is the Winnuski Valley park contract so this is now year two of what was proposed to be the three-year contract so this is for oversight of that open space management they're providing the oversight right correct and these are the funds to to support that looking further down we have Shimanski Park so again nothing this year in 2020 we'll do kind of a repaint and realign of those courts and then further down in 2023 kind of a complete rehab similar to the next item which is the veterans memorial basketball court again that rehab will be done in 2021 and I just want to say thanks to our park foreman too because Andrew Moonen you know is the one that really takes care of all the parks and I think he does a really good job and his input also was very important so it was really a team approach and I think the city council can appreciate that do you have any other questions no great please thank you thank you thank you so this is a closer look at the at the funding sources for city center so you can see at the back of the graph is debt service the middle row is contributions and the front row is funding sources to construct projects so as you can see the reserve contribution comes all from the general fund bucket so the second bucket in and then TIF district revenue or increment pays the bulk of debt service and then if you look at TIF district financing proceeds as proceeds from TIF district funded bond debt is the bulk of the project costs we also have a much smaller amount orange bar and that's city debt proceeds next to it and then we also larger than city debt but shorter than TIF district financing proceeds are grants or capital campaigns so that's a mix of federal funding like we have for Market Street like we have for the Wilson River project and that would be raised by the library board of trustees foundation and the recreation recreation and leisure arts foundation I think I know they're cooperating they have a better name than the one I'm speaking so it's a foundation to support the recreation facility and you can see those also we use some impact fees they are not the bulk of the project costs recreation highway impact fees and then we slightly larger for debt service public facility impact fees that's an impact fee that we hope to bring to that we will need to bring to people this year and for your consideration in order for it to be ready by the time we have debt service to make and I'll talk about that on the next slide so this slide shows all of the costs and all of the sources very specifically and I believe I can somewhere I can get it I have to turn it off it does not show up here we go there we go okay so there's a few important lines the first is that the general fund contribution annually 60,000 that's an annual contribution so that as projects are approved by the voters which require debt those projects will not increase the tax rate that stays steady the property tax rate on the city center reserve fund is the next line down it's also important because by using a mix of funding for projects that are not fully funded by the tips district that do require that city contribution we use a mix of funding in order to keep that line at or below the annual tax property tax contribution so right now it's an 848,000 per year that gives us a small cushion so that in the future if we do decide to spend as much as is programmed in terms of recreation center, city hall and library the amount of the city contribution is at or under the annual contribution because when we have the reserve fund it both serves as a cushion for unanticipated cost but also primarily for debt service so that's one of the goals of looking at what we can afford is how healthy is that reserve fund so this is like right along the bottom edge of it so where did the funds come from to fund the city center CIP reserve fund so all of the funds in the reserve fund come from that 860,000 so so let's say 5 or 6 or 7 years ago there was a year when Bob Rustin had there was additional fund unexpended funds at the end of the budget year that started the reserve fund but then each year after an amount was put in until we were able to build up to 860,000 looking so looking at the total share of the projects we started with a larger number and that number was was I won't say right side because we don't have much of a cushion but it is about the amount that we would need to build the three public buildings given that we raise money from foundation that foundations are able to raise an adequate amount of funding and given that we the district increment is realized that we expect and given that there are impact fees for public facilities so taking all of those different that basket of funding sources into account that 860,000 is about what we would need for our share for all 13 projects so it's the three buildings and Williston Road and so we just received 800,000 for the application of a grant a federal aid grant for 800,000 for a streetscape on Williston Road so that's money that we would have had to contribute towards the Williston Road project because it's only 50% eligible so because we received that that is no longer has to come out of the reserve fund Bravo I don't think we got to say it to your face Yes that gets us almost halfway there Should we put 860 away last year? Yes Right? Yes This year This year One year back we put 860 away It's increased every year up until this year which is 860 and then it's maintained so we hit the 860 mark this is the year 18 that we're in right now it's our first year after the 860 So at this point is this nowable and we need to the 860 we need to be there based on these there are a lot of unknowns in these projects still so we don't know the total cost we don't know how successful the foundations will be and we don't know with impact fees you never know how much they'll raise you can project how much they'll raise depending on development in any given year and so there are lots and we don't know how fast the TIF revenues will be in place you know I think everyone has a huge amount of confidence in the TIF district itself being built out but that all of those buildings will the timeline in which they'll appear is not as secure so Were the impact fees based upon some really projections about the number of buildings that could be built versus what might probably could be built based on wetland So impact fees apply throughout the community and the TIF but the TIF district increment is based on the number of buildings that could be built and what our market has supported in the past Has the number been decreasing the last year? But what could be built? No Nothing has happened that would reduce the number of buildings that could be built Yeah So could be built versus will be built always different So unlike the other parts of the CIP we also include the prior years in the first column that's so you can see overall what has been comprehensively since this is a project that began several years ago and will end probably seven or eight years in the future so that way you can track the whole project using this one spreadsheet and then we also separate the different types of debt on this spreadsheet so the city center the city debt proceeds that's all the debt that is supported by impact fees and the reserve fund not from TIF district debt so TIF district debt supports is supported by increment only So if I was to ask under the TIF district financing proceeds Yes But we got a prior year in 2015 Yes So the anticipated projects that we're looking at that we fund them That'll be the next slide But I do want to say one other thing I have a good point When we look at the TIF district increment what I have in here is what we need in increment what we actually receive in a given year we may be borrowing against the reserve fund in order to backfill fill that need So the next slide This is our list of projects So Market Street in FY19 will be under construction beginning next year Garden Street we're lining up for it to be construction ready but really will most likely be finishing design if we're very lucky we may be able to begin construction So I have it in here as a placeholder City Center Park the Dumont parcel will be completed and we have some funding down the road for a connection to Market Street and Garden Street and across by San Remo Drive The Community Recreation Center we have a little bit of money in there just in case an opportunity arises but we do not have the bulk of construction anticipated for FY19 City Hall and Public Library thank you very much for your support on those projects and we do have funding you will have a discussion later on about public facilities so City Hall may be there as a placeholder or may be there as a project the Williston Road streetscape we have not yet signed the agreement for the grant but we will need to commit to building it within four years so that this FY19 represents design costs for that project engineering costs and then the parking garage at the moment we do not have a development agreement that would necessitate a parking garage so that is anticipated as beginning in fiscal year 20 the Urban Park and Festival streets we have some money in there in case there is an opportunity to identify land and that has not occurred but it may happen between now and then and stormwater and wetland mitigation we do not have a project that is has been identified for that funding but if there is a project then we have that money in program for FY19 and that would be 100% to funded and then the pedestrian bicycle access at I-89 we anticipate having the scoping study presented to you this winter in either late December or early January and that will give you an opportunity to consider a next step right now we are considering all of that funding soft costs for future debt so it would be TIF we are using the TIF portion of the anticipated TIF portion of the project cost to cover all of the design work that has led up to this that has been very little up until now because it has been funded by CCRPC as part of their UPWP and we are only contributing 20% of those costs and we would need to have this project at a fairly advanced stage of design to be eligible for a tiger grant if that program continues to be available and we would of course continue to look for other programs this is the type of project that it really helps it to be shovel ready in order to pursue funding, we believe it is a federal eligible project it is a great connector both for us for the city of South Burlington and regionally so we will continue to advance that we will continue to recommend advancing that project next year and that is the end question with regard to the parking garage so with regard to the Forseen Library City Hall there would not be a parking garage connected to that that could be considered that is certainly a possibility to build a parking garage into that project there will be about 70 parking spaces on Market Street in the vicinity and there is some parking in the area where parking is anticipated to be underneath the building but we can certainly consider that on surface parking so that is something that can be looked at as part of it we would probably approach it as a separate project however so for the library parking you foresee that to be under the building on Market Street so you might have seen it might be under the building so ADA parking parking it is very important for the individual to be close but there may be and there are two ADA accessible spaces right near the corner of the school entrance on Market Street and we will be looking at the square footage and the functions of other types of parking are within the area and then I know at some point we had talked about a parking garage and that might be picked up again I'm not sure we have a discussion we talk about public facilities later on can we talk about that when we discuss public facilities later so one of the concepts at that conference was share of one of these vehicles providing like an electric conveyor belt on a circuit there is no driver just like a 12 person mini-electric bus pod that can transport people around and cycle them through different parking areas maybe even crossing Dorset Street over to the U-Mall to access larger parking areas so it is like an electric conveyor belt it is CCTA has sent two board members and three staff members to an APTA conference that they exist self-driving little bus pods for small geographic campuses they are employed across the country there was a need for a pilot project that was from the groups that talked about it interesting I'd be also in favor of car share down there with all the housing but we could go on for quite a while time so you've concluded your presentation we've concluded our presentation yes so I would understand the motion to be worn a public hearing for the regular city council meeting on December 4th, 2007 we have 7pm, will that allow come out time if you need an executive question very much um okay okay so at 7.15 the public comment on the proposal and the improvement program and the staff needed to accomplish the same on council don't we already have the date December 4th at 7? yes we have a motion to so second and it's at 7.15 okay so all in favor signify by saying aye aye thank you very much thank you see you again on December 4th thank you Marza and thank you Alana for all your work I mean how much one to one and a quarter percent of land work one percent I think it's going to be thousand dollars I'll get the number from the dollar what does one percent of the land is growth equal in terms of a dollar amount so each field needs to put that together in the center of the state in December so we can put that okay so just to recap if we look at all the impact fees all of the grants all of the open space funding the reserve funding that all that we saw tonight for fiscal year 19 adds up to $150,000 increase in adjustment and we are potentially seeing to be confirmed $400,000 increase in our grand list but we are looking at the other cost drivers that I identified that are upwards of $800,000 so all those things together to stay within stay in that kind of region that percent zone will still be a challenge with this but bringing this into a reasonable affordable limit I think for locality that's basically what we've done we've taken what would be nice to have and provided it into a recommendation that is reasonable and provides a level service to continue with other departments I think we're there now we need to get there to the rest of the budget yes okay thank you I guess we do need a break we'll take a quick break we'll be back we'll be back do I have to say that again I'd like to call back into order the South Burlington City Council meeting for what is today November 6th 2017 and we'll continue on the agenda item 14 discussion by council related to the distribution of the FY 2019 social services funding I left it that council will look at funded in the past and come back with further discussion on that for tonight we're receptive to whatever the council desires to do we have the option of doing it the way we've done it in the past or we propose an alternate method for consideration this year so really up to the council we're trying to get a little more guidance from you in terms of what we should be looking for for a number in the general fund for that this year and the purpose for it it's not in the handouts for this it was last meeting but I think it was just handed out I don't think it was sent electronically because I left mine at home I have my copy I dragged it to the meeting last weekend I have my copy I'll take it out just if I could take a look at it I wanted to know what got changed well at this point nothing has gotten changed the the discussion was did we want to consider focusing larger amounts of money on more specific outcomes if you will or organizations in the community kind of maybe align it with our interest and concern around opioid misuse and mental health issues for example I have a question with regard to the Howard Center that we've been giving to with the collaborative that we're looking at will we be contributing in that way so that Howard Center would not have to be on this list that's a new program we're funding four FTE's with it so it's funding specifically for that program and it's a new program so I would say this is this is different than what we've normally supported them with this is a different function so we're paying for the four FTE's and their benefits and expenses so I just wanted to put that out there and have us sort of think about are there things that we could take off the list if you will and make a more substantial contribution to PAC for example well but it's just a suggestion people don't want to do it that way we can continue to average it out average it out yeah I mean that's kind of what we do it's sort of like well we gave to them last year so we'll give to them this year and the number doesn't increase can I be apprised again of the South Burlington Family Center I probably should be able to quote chapter and verse on it but I can't it doesn't come to mind when they're small children okay that's a South Burlington group okay so they're not funded necessarily additionally through United Way or anyone like that I really don't know I don't know either I mean they can't do all the programming with just what we give them they've received some funding my understanding of the doubt it's been but it's also my understanding from the current director of that program they now operate out of the church on Allen Road okay yes and they pay they pay a fee for the facility use and the doubt who's currently running that is leaving the program they'll be looking for a new director she informed me that they're serving very few South Burlington families it's more of a regional program now and that there's a $20,000 amount of money that resides in the fund a private fund to operate the family center her recommendation was that if the council wanted to forgo funding the family center for a year it was more certain as to what the future of that program is going to be who's running it and what the South Burlington interest and participation in that program would be that she thought that would make sense and that the $20,000 that exists within the fund could certainly make up that difference they're all in charge of their money you're as familiar with all of these organizations as you are now I'm more familiar with the South Burlington this is a little granular list of how many 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 15, it's like 25 I mean you know it's like at some point I'm just tossing this out there I would say I would propose that we just pick like 6 or 7 or whatever it is just a small amount that get concentrated donation from us that are centered around the things that matter to South Burlington specifically I mean they can have other perspectives and focus as well but when you start spreading money out like this so granular I know it's valuable to each of these organizations and they all do something that are valuable but as a city trying to generate a list of recipients for services that are special for us we should probably narrow down the list I think and get it down to 10 or less and really focus on that to make substantial contributions it's just a suggestion because worst case this list can just keep growing and growing and everybody gets a dollar 47 dollars in organizations they need to get a dollar I don't disagree with you but I can tell you when these folks used to come in and speak to us they would give us the number of people that they serve from our community and it is not slight in many ways and some of the organizations it was quite substantial it was it's a small organization so they're like the blind that would be here that's weren't that many I agree completely with your point Tim I'd come back to a committee because there are a lot of pressures on our time so for us to hear from all 25 of these organizations there's not so many hours in the day but I love committees and if we had not a once a month committee but a once a year committee that these organizations could meet with other people other than the council and they would come forward with a recommendation on which organizations to fund and at what level which 10 or fewer would you recommend Tim? well that's negotiable right this is where the river gets the road well I mean so you have to rank them in some way and I don't know if I have enough information to rank them all and I know there's some really valuable services here I mean when it says American Red Cross we're talking about the local Red Cross or the American Red Cross I think it's the local chapter of the American Red Cross well I'll put on the table I think pact is a really important one and they did run in the hole when they came in and gave a report because I asked and they had a negative and somehow or other that got made up and when I queried them it was well you know we just don't want the folks that are wanting it to be the ones that are making up the difference because that I think is an extremely valuable piece for our kids and for our community and what they do is so that we can agree on then I'll agree with the two of you I also think common roots does a lot with our schools and children and that's a local we've got a big request coming through from them as well under CIP well and that's how we may parse that out but I personally think that's a homegrown south burley unintended south burley to an organization and they do a lot with the children and the families in our community and the schools so that would be another one that I think is very I think just as an aside and it's just probably just a correction piece the champagne valley OEO I think has a new name now just putting it out there I think they're called something different not that I'm saying they should you know have the money I just would like to I know while we're trying to pick these out we heard strongly that the Howard Center provided we did many many services for us in south Burlington and for our schools our kids and so on and they have the methadone clinic I mean I think they do a lot of things well that's not just for our community no they do for a lot of communities but we specifically I was surprised to find out how much they did within just south Burlington I'll tell you for a young family moving in the child care resource it's not easy to find child care are they regional or do they do just they are regional but south Burlington based what do they provide they provide a list of providers they provide along with that list they evaluate the different providers there's this for child care for child care and to be honest with Adam I don't know what I would have done coming here we had an emergency child care issue and so I had to find somebody and I contacted them and then that afternoon they had three names so they were really helpful when you have kids you got to put some does 211 help with that as well that's 211 that's another emergency number for child care for social services that's pretty broad so that's what is that called the child care resource I mean as you can see their requests met are we put that on hold so we didn't want to send out letters and then say oh we're not funny we're focused on these 10 sorry to come back well the VNA provides I know to our seniors and yeah and then we have the independent living the Center for Independent Living where we had this is right above the VNA with the the housing that is a problem we had locals come in and actually be the spokespeople for that association does the Center for Independent Living does that help help the folks that are off of Williston Road to help them live independently it's a statewide organization but they work in all the different counties what's that street that they are outside it comes towards the hospital it's not Bruce or Heath it's Hadley we live on Hadley off of Williston it's kind of behind the floors it is and they have a building in there they have some subsidized housing for people who live independently that's an amazing building well do people want to support that I would like to and I I am also a big supporter of us supporting women who are men I suppose to but I think more often women who are trying to get out of a domestic violence situation so the steps to end domestic violence I mean that's the steps to end domestic violence what type of are they affiliated with the they were formerly known as right oh someone that's an incredible resource that's two four six eight now you have ten we're going to have ten what do I miss I think we have to four five six I have seven two I only have seven I'm sorry I think we should continue supporting the chillout center my son says several people show up you know I was trying to find them I knew where they were in the mall but they're closed that's because we took the they're close to the holidays because our store because your store disrupted them so we disrupted our store the library did do we have the family center on there did we have the family center on there or no I have seven without them I don't have the family center on my list but until we have the hanging out moving around what was that I can't remember geeking out moving around geek out in our new library I think we need a place for our teens I really do so was the chillout center active still it's just no they're waiting till after the holidays it will be in January January but it's not that's not our it's for the region can the humor it's not just that well whoever shows up anybody can be there the chillout center is locked out because there's somebody else took over the space yeah the crafting crab okay so the investments we made are sitting there stagnant because they can't be used I think he did say that it probably wouldn't be until the beginning of the year I thought too it's been open it's been open since last um yeah it was open because I would they open looking for it because they were way down right now they're in the old KB toys the old KB toys right next to the right now they got thrown out while you're in I think it was a mutual I don't think they were thrown out exactly but uh they have typically closed during the holidays they should have done that before when the group was in there so do we want to put the chillout center so then we would have you know two things that really help teens we got Howard which is sort of the mental health opiate thing are we going to ask them to all apply again is that only the ones we're selecting six eight children is child resource and the do we put the family no the you didn't have the family oh we can take a year off from them we have domestic violence handicapped DNA is healthcare what is age well is that the Champlain Valley agency on aging I know what was the name no wait actually no it's not Champlain Valley agency on aging yeah didn't they change their name so don't they have a new name they're in Burlington CVOEO but they're day care and their adoption agency is in South Burlington on joy drive now that's right I think they did I thought I read that they have but we're not funding them apparently so it doesn't matter hmm philanthropy what's the word philanthropic people support them I mean they they really do I mean they can always use money they have some big ticket people maybe they didn't I'm sure I read they changed the name but it's still under CVOEO and I think the Lund home is really so are we adding chill out maybe not just to eight you know I mean I don't have any problem keeping that on because it helps our teens but you know my feeling with him was to go out and try to get funding from other places so that we weren't his last and only resort if you may recall yep and I think he did the only one I had on my list was one to the eight so but I'm just putting that out there because we had homework we were supposed to come in with two three four five six that was my ninth list member did we add I know I didn't hear anybody else jump on so okay that would be three six that would be nine we have we have cuts we have no food shelf services you know we don't we really don't besides the schools and churches and well and actually common roots they give a lot of they do do that the cooking and give the produce to low-income families in the city yep I mean but that's kind of our round it's not like it's a community bank that has a thing going now with accepting donations for the food shelves I guess oh yeah no and you can put food in so are these nine then so we determined Lund was not even though it's a south Burlington I mean it doesn't only serve south Burlington I understand but I as in previous years don't feel informed enough about each of the functionings of these organizations to say what we should or shouldn't fund well I mean they're all deserving right it's a focus of sort of balancing our resources and having an impact on the larger impact on I mean it's interesting if we pick ten and we had forty thousand at least everybody got four thousand I know if you looked at it divided equally they don't all ask but some don't ask for that right I mean I was just thinking that's more of an impact than maybe five hundred oh absolutely you know to someone even though they're all very worthy groups I know that we were asked by United Way as being very and it's back when I I mean they wanted a separate line I don't like Colchester gives them but they're also the Colchester as well you know and they give them a line item in their budget every year you know for the VNA United Way and you know I understand but they have a broader base to draw from I look at then what some of these groups do well that's giving an organization that goes through the process but with a different matrix and different goals that they develop to distribute the money and what we're doing is not saying here's forty thousand dollars United Way you know best you give it to whomever you want rather these are the organizations that seem to have a connection to our residents not that the others don't but that resonate with some of the goals that we have so are we going to go with nine or are we going to add what was the last one should we go with the nine packed common roots Howard mental health, child care resource center VNA I don't know if I guess if I was to lean towards anything I'd probably lean towards the Luntown because I think they do lots of things but and I'm also looking at this age age well I couldn't even tell you what they do leading experts and advocates for aging population of northwestern Vermont formally to be the area agency on aging Champlain Valley agency on aging yes I had put a mark next to them too yeah Champlain Valley yeah I think that you want to add them as well I would look and say I think that we we're missing the senior population if we don't do something with them yes the age well so do the age well that takes us to 10 that's the age well we have and then do you like Tom's idea of I don't know if we have time this season but I guess we could find out if there's some public members, residents who would like to receive the proposals and to us to we're going to cap it at 40,000 is that what we did last year cap it at what we did last year a little higher than that one 41,000 I think we might have missed the window for this year but looking at next year if we form the committee at the regular committee forming time with all the other applications for next year's budget cycle okay well then if we if we agree with these 10 we want them all to apply and make a request okay and then the five of us will do get up again but at least there'll be only 10 fights and it wasn't a fight I mean we just 10 conversations and you know the interesting part too is when we look at it based on their budget you know I'm not sure whether packed I mean they set their budget pretty stringently and I'm wondering if they had an opportunity to have a little more money if they would be able to if that's something that they would be interested in having we certainly want them to cover up their expenses and then some about they may not need to do something they can't do right now right exactly great that's the whole point the top 10 okay all right great thank you I have a list okay all right moving right along update on nations related to Burlington international airport and our council discussion and guidance regarding regarding the noise compatibility program noise exposure maps and related issues go ahead so we're a little behind so I will not be labored this too too much but just a couple of updates the noise compatibility program technical advisory committee met for the first time it's a continuation of the prior it's bigger than the prior sound committee but it's the first in the step that needs to be taken to to update the noise compatibility program so there are a couple of other airport related things I want to raise tonight too but that is the most prominent our situation is a related to various communications we've had with the city of Burlington about things has not gone very well the MOU that you approved was sent to the city back on June 19th we've heard nothing back from them on that resolution of governments governance that you approved a couple of different meetings in August nothing back on that and the letter I sent on 28th to Jean Richards the director of aviation nothing back on that although I promised a response the letter requested as you'll recall that the BIA staff should defer to the elected bodies of the affected communities as to what provisions and programs will be included in the NCP relating to the communities given that the NCP is designed to mitigate noise impacts beyond the BIA property in this case within the city of south Burlington it's only logical and reasonable that the elected representatives of the affected community make the decision as to how those impacts are addressed to the NCP so again no response on that at the meeting of the technical advisory committee some very interesting things I thought came out first of all Jesse Baker the manager and Winooski asked about the status the noise exposure map so the city of Winooski's challenge is that the way the process initially appeared to be set up was that the NCP the programs to address noise would be would be approved before the new maps were created and the new maps probably affect Winooski a lot more than they affect us and so and I'm a little bit confused as to where the request for funding for the NEM comes in Jesse Baker asked about the status the new NEM Nick Longo said the airport is moving away from pursuing grant funding and reallocating funding already received to do the update Gene Richards explained the request for funding was made but not yet granted so there's a contradiction there that between Gene and Nick that I can't explain so we'll have to ask again at the next meeting if that can be further clarified the two other issues I wanted to raise were were a statement that Gene made consistent I think with what Tab was saying earlier this came at the end of the meeting Gene Richards stress this you need to consider this carefully Gene Richards stress the airport wants to make sure all boards are informed and can be well represented at the tack meetings and here's the quote the program is for the people around the airport who are affected not necessarily for the leaders of the community the program will be around along for a long time and is not for a political agenda or personal use but for the community at large so again there's a contradiction there it's for the the people around the airport who are affected not necessarily the leaders of the community but then the program will be around for a long time and is not for a political agenda or personal use but for the community at large this becomes what kind of influence are we really going to have over the the noise compatibility program for the city of South Burlington and I think what this does is open the door because of the lack of response on the MOU and the other requests to engage that there still is a real possibility that the buyout and demolition program has a prominent role in their thinking certainly not ruled out at any stretch of the imagination so and there's a last bit of information that I was unaware of you may well have been Richard Doucette who is the oversees these programs for the FAA out of their regional office in Massachusetts said that once an incompatible noise level is reached and people find it objectionable federal funds can be used for mitigation of the noise with an approved NCP that's what this is all about and when he said that it made me think my is that many people feel that these lines are drawn based upon a health based standard inside these lines there are health concerns outside the lines less that's not it at all this is a seemingly an annoyance an amount of annoyance Kevin Dorn South Burlington stated that the term incompatible could be interpreted as having health impacts he asked if the FAA is implying this as a health impact the lines Richard Doucette stated land use compatibility is not related to health impacts it's an annoyance based standard and then who you ask this is the guy that runs the program oh according to the FAA I understand so for their purposes and their purposes of funding the World Health Organization has a different perspective okay but for the FAA I'm talking about are we going to lose more homes here because we're losing homes over according to the FAA we're losing homes because there's an annoyance standard not a health standard but it's still by it's still by the decibels as well it's by the decibels that's true Pat but it's a level of annoyance that the FAA has judged is too high for people to be annoyed and not according to Richard Doucette not related to a health impact well I hope we're working on the fact of keeping homes and not getting rid of them and that's the discussion well that's what I wanted to have tonight I think that the issue of buyout and demolition is still certainly an option it's always going to be an option it's allowable under the FAA but I think it's very much on the table especially if any members bring it up which is what that opens the door for some of them will so why didn't my house get purchased well it's more than that why didn't I get a windfall from the purchase of my home any of these people got $40 $50,000 of immediate equity who would not do that they got the benefit of my understanding I'm not defending the airport I'm not defending the FAA but they got the benefit of moving costs being paid and know what have you into a comparable house that you can't find here so is this the time when we call the governor and we call the congressional delegation and say help here we have a real economic crisis that is moving well I think hang on oh come on my understanding is that hang on they're not going to control what we do at GBIC but my understanding is that there has been a you can't go to the mitigation program until the other program is completed that's what we've heard and those homes that are being negotiated for there are still the final ones that were allowed to have been purchased this is all about what happens after that that's exactly right once one program is done it moves to the next one if the council feels strongly that you do not want any more homes demolished bought and demolished then we need to come up to advocate for that because it hasn't been heard I want to say this I don't want homes destroyed but at the same time if homes I'm not adamantly opposed to any more homes being bought by the airport what I want is because if there's one middle in the middle of nowhere and they really need to be able to purchase it because the houses around them are down I don't want to preclude that option but I just want more consistency from the airport I want to know that when they say we don't want to buy any more homes and when they say that to the neighborhood that we're drawn this line and we have no intention of purchasing homes I want people to have confidence that that's a truthful statement I've lost a lot of that confidence so I think it's a two part issue I think we need to have more effective long term and trustworthy planning between that entity and the city of South Burlington on the notes that I had and I was not at your meeting but they gave an overview one of the first items on it was the approval process to change from buying to the approval process to change from the buying to the mitigation program one cannot start until the other one stops and when I looked at our memorandum of understanding that has not been addressed directly and I understand that I took a look at that and said I couldn't see why anyone wouldn't buy into that you know I thought that was we're going to start this there will be no destruction of houses going forward there are still some homes that had until I believe I think I'm looking at the end of December to make a decision one couple they were older they wanted to let their grandkids graduate from high school and blah blah blah somebody else wanted extra money and blah blah blah anyway but in looking at those items that those were the final ones and there would be no more buy and tear down okay from that disappointingly and I have said that that communication in getting answers back has not been forthcoming on some of these okay and I get that and I get that it's sent to their door and everything else in the city but I also looked at and said I felt that that was doing us a little bit of a disservice in not getting answers back if you can't accept our MOU then why what is the problem with it is it we're asking for a ten year thing or whatever just tell us what the answer is you know and get back to us get back to us on the other piece I may not agree on everything we do but I'm carrying the banner to say we need to have some answers to that and that is why when I found out that it was the FAA wanted to hear the people saying what they wanted and not what the city wanted I was right there saying hey okay so what do we need to do to get these things across how can we get the best for the people here I'm looking at and stating I think there's only one piece that I have read and this whole thing that talks about that it could go beyond as you mentioned that there could be an issue and it's I think if there was a change in I don't want to say commercial planes or anything like that but if there was any change that happened at the airport the changed operations okay and I don't know how you anticipate anything going on something like that right now we know we have 948 or whatever number of homes that fall in that 65 dnl and that would be theoretically eligible for consideration of a mitigation type program or a demolition program but even no demolition coming on those oh no Pat under a new ncp after the 39 homes are done there is no more demolition oh yes it's very much still on the table that's the point of tonight I think we have a problem with that in understanding how it is because that is not my understanding of how you're reading well it was very clear at the meeting the other day of the technical committee two different types of addressing noise land acquisition and demolition or other types of mitigation and so Richard said when he was here that the homes 600 and whatever 40 of them were eligible for these programs including buyout and demolition so the issue is very much on the table and what I'm trying to get as a member and Paul is here is that what is our guidance from the council on this because all these issues are on the table well then I think that is clarity at the next meeting because that is not what's being told to the commission I think we need more than clarity to be proactive and contact the governor contact our congressional delegation and let them know that we are in a housing crisis and that we can't expect to assist our local businesses to grow if we can't provide any workforce housing and I think that we are we are in a crisis point it's been documented in ECOS it's been the subject of committee discussions and even this new grant program that the legislature put forward I think we have to be proactive I think we have to say enough is enough and we've met with the congressional delegation staff the three of us but if the mitigation program cannot start until the buyout is finished then I'm not sure where your comments come in the buyout is the 39 homes remain under the original program I understand that an updated NCP will come into place within the updated NCP they can buy out and demolish more homes or they can do insulation or other types of mitigation we've heard never again before Pat demolition is not do it to me one I'm not saying from you I'm saying from the mayor I think it was your it was a surprise to you the 39 homes as well why don't we get the answer to it and so we're sure do it to me one, shame on you do it to me twice, shame on me I've been burned both never want to accept what someone comes in and tells you they get at meetings if they are lying to me I am really upset with them I don't believe that I have heard lies alright and I have listened to these folks and if it's your understanding and my understanding are different then perhaps we do need to have better clarification because one of us is clearly wrong or misinformed I should say Paul did you have a different interpretation of the information we got the other day my understanding is that at this time the the process that exists for the development of a noise compatibility plan is to have all options on the table about the future and to go through and consider all the options including new ones that were not previously eligible all the ones that are the insulation etc etc but not excluding or precluding keeping the current program going that is not necessarily what the airport has said that they're advocating but it's not to my understanding that they're advocating I want an answer on that and I want it tomorrow I want to know what has gone on that has not been told to the commission I would like to have Andrew tell us what our chances are in federal court of an injunction against the NCP in its entirety I'd like to know approximately like who would have to be paid how much to introduce that suit to a federal court because I'm just brainstorming here if you want to stop homes from being buyout you've got to stop the whole NCP and the rest of the part 150 period you just got to stop the deadness tracks what about the Kirby cottages have we gotten any follow-ups on those what are the gentlemen there's one that still lives there or he did like three or four weeks ago and he's still negotiating price and he told me that people are renters so the whole place is rented out now you said they're not renting I'm not 100% sure we haven't had an update on the Lily homes but he said they all are occupied by other people they're in there to check the houses but there's someone living in each of the other houses the last I knew Megan but this had gravitated over to the CHT and the discussions there and I don't know if there have been discussions lately we went out and hired a not hired but had a firm come in and make an estimate on moving and we identified several locations where they could potentially be moved but we're not in the middle of a transaction that's going to be a transaction between if it happened between CHT and the airport so I keep in touch with CHT on it but Paul do you got an update on it? No not on that I just wonder if that happened I mean so I don't know where that stands right now Megan I can talk to Michael Well it must still be in the works especially if they have people living in the houses to maintain them It would be good to have an update Yeah so that would be good Vandalism Well I mean I think I appreciate your interpretation and it would be helpful to have it clarified if there is once you finish this original program and you move on to the mitigation if the new noise compatibility plan can include Well either it says going forward we're never going to have a buyout we're only looking at noise mitigation if it becomes irritating or annoying to people or if in fact as you say the airport could decide they can hear from people saying why don't you buy out my house and blah blah blah and so their understanding or response to that is oh okay let's apply for another buyout Hold on there is a piece in there that says a piece in this whole picture that the airport could buy a home out but not for demolition it would have to be for refitting it for resale so that it would not leave the neighborhood That is my understanding only with the exception of a change in operations which I think is out there that is my understanding is the only way that another home could be bought out because people have approached the airport I mean somebody even came to us and asked about a home they bought out why can't my home be bought out and they were not part of the final ones to make the decision but there is a piece as we have been explained that the airport could buy the house get it mitigated or whatever but not destroyed That is part of this current mitigation conversation But that would be part of the piece that would start with the new mitigation Yes but I think what Kevin is suggesting is that if there is new NCP and we do all the mitigation and complete the buy out and that gets done then a list of their programmatic steps they still could allow the airport could apply for a whole other program of buy out and then noise mitigation and demolition buy out demolition and then if that is in the noise compatibility plan which is being written today which is I think Pat numerated at the beginning the importance of the community in all of its different forms expressing our community needs and I just wanted to make a brief observation that to me one of the fundamental challenges of the whole thing is that the program appears to be geared towards considering the direct concerns of neighbors which is good however the issue of the future of our housing is both an issue for today's residents in those homes and also a county wide and a generational who as council remembering has pointed out the housing crisis for future residents and so there's a little bit of a disconnect there between what the program who it gears towards and also our overall responsibility and the GBIC should be included I mean he was right here Mr. Coffee saying contact us so we can help you get the mitigation good jobs in a clean environment requires housing that's right so I think that's certainly a clarity we need and I think what might lead you to have that concern is absolutely no response on an MOU that was reflective of conversations in public and in private with the mayor of Burlington and with director that we are not interested in buying out more and why in the world we haven't gotten a response to that is is very troubling so if they can't sign that that says a way you can get out of it if things change if something comes up and you know it's a different story you can pull out the MOU but it's the assurance for Tom's cousin who has a house there who may want to put in a new bathroom and who wants to spend the money if it's going to be bought out I just want to restate a comment I made earlier we spend a lot of hours Kevin has 160 hours a month Tom has 160 hours a month Paul has 160 hours a month however many hours we're spending they wish it was only 160 keep going add whatever Kevin factory you'd like I'm just saying I think it behooves us to track how many hours we as a city are spending of staff time on airport issues I've heard Jean throw 150 hours but some of the hours we've spent on your diatron too I mean I look at this and say yes we do and we do spend a lot of hours on different things 150 hours a month we spend on the airport I want to know how many hours we're spending on the airport because we're not getting a charge back to the airport enterprise fund and it's consuming a lot of our taxpayers' dollars through the time we're spending on our staff on this issue so I see value in tracking it if the community is supposed to have a voice in this process and the leadership isn't and our political base meaning the city hall isn't going to have a voice in it I want a federal judge to have a voice in it it's not the voice it's what they want in the decision my understanding is what the FAA asked for was it's not that they don't want to hear from leadership but they want the they want the solutions to be derived from the neighbors and I want a federal judge to say thou shalt not purchase and demo any more homes and you can do anything else that you want but you won't do that it's a big slice of cake to try to bake and eat and I don't want to go down the Shelburne highway but I mean it's worth looking at at least we've been working on it for a long time a long time so we'll explore clarity on that and options in addition to that I got a letter from Jean asking that the city consider closing off Kirby Road extension and Peacard Circle Kirby Road extension the road that went down to the old Dawk Park and based upon a observation that there was drug use going on at the end of the road or in those areas and the needles fell down there was some vagrancy in the area so the decision to to terminate use of a road is a council decision it's not planning commission it's a council decision so how would you like to consider that issue or not your Dawk Park that's already been we can't use that area for the Dawk Park do you want to hear from your public safety officials and I can provide you the note from Jean is a land swap option something we could pursue I mean it's something that had been discussed they can have the road but then they give us a swath of land that equal amount of land they expressed any interest in doing that you know the interesting part when we had the Dawk Park piece which was kind of a it was more I don't want to say a handshake but we had that but one of the reasons that I had to get looked into is one of our own residents brought up the fact that it wasn't being used for airport use then it had to be brought up and it was determined that we couldn't have the Dawk Park there and that was George right because all the land has to be for airport use land swap then if they swap the land they give the land back to the city of South Burlington then we can use it for what we want maybe it's a good time to think about some type of land swap for the road use you know as they've talked about because we own the roads and they own the land and if we did that maybe we could find a better place to help Mark with his Dawk Parkings so would you like to hear the case made by the airport? Amanda's here tonight but at a future date hear from the airport about the why side of this and consider what you'd like to do yes sure well I mean that, Dawk probably not tonight it's not warned oh okay I mean it's not warned for that purpose but we want to hear from Amanda as to the background for it but we can't act on it we can't act on it well then why don't, I mean we've got we still have, it's almost 1030 and we still have five more items so would you like I would I mean I know you sat here and listened and I appreciate that I would I think prefer having the agenda and you can hear what our public safety has to say we can hear what the airport's role and position and maybe you can even think about the possibility of a land swap if that is absolutely off the table that would be good to know that would be good or if that's something that could be negotiated and I also mentioned, so you know how to is that okay I spoke with Amanda about the notifications and could we have them earlier and she's bringing the word back so we will know how people are notified when they can get notified of the meeting so that we can have public input during these six sessions including the city hall staff I think it's important because they put out the front porch forum postings it's December 5th but I'll let you know how we advertise and make sure that that gets out ASAP do you have a time? I know without looking but I think they start it 5 o'clock isn't it 5 to 7? I think it's 5 so just so you know this was a good conversation because Seth Leonard and I are meeting with Maro tomorrow afternoon to talk about some airport issues and so I certainly will bring up the MOU issue and you know some other conversations about where we can go forward and include the kind of input and impact both Winooski and South Burlington will be relevant for airport decisions that are in our communities so I'll get this on a near term agenda for the council and I'll let you or Jean or Nick know when it is thank you so move on to item 16 update on the move of the community library be real fast the main part of the library the renovation will be completed by Friday they'll start assembling furniture on Saturday we're looking to open on December 7th so do you need any help? yes the library do you need help? I will find out from I need help from a city councilor who would like to help well I've got a really big hammer we'll put you to work possibly doing something putting furniture together is that what you want to do? yeah so it's progressing fast the back room where the staff work area still got to be painted but all the walls are painted the carpet has been cleaned it's going to be stretched and glued and the furniture is arriving early some of the furniture is arriving the walls are already here but we'll be put up the interior walls so it's going fast anyway December 7th it's projected opening date cool moving on to number 17 update on the work of the joint survey committee related to potential action by the council and voters to form a municipal district to provide a governance structure to regionalize public safety dispatch services so you have in your packet the final agreement that was reached between the communities to establish the union municipal district that went to the attorney general's office who has 30 days to review it and get back to us as to whether or not it passes muster from a legal standpoint it should we've had five lawyers look at this so shortly after that in December that agreement will come to you with a recommendation from us that the question of forming a union municipal district be put to before the voters in March so is this the same as I can just ask is this very similar to the Barry Montpelier type arrangement or not it is similar only in intent it is a different statute this is a statute that governs the establishment of a union municipal district that was established through its own statutory enablement so different process somewhat of the same outcome so it's in your packet you know take your time and read through it that's the governing more or less the charter for the union municipal district if we move forward after vote in March with the other communities were the two years of CIP values for dispatch in Chief Whipple's presentation were they anyway related to this or were they just looking at replacing some equipment replacing existing I think the consoles were in there for dispatch and he's keeping them in there just as a holding place for right now I meant to ask that I didn't put a note on because I was curious yeah so we'll be back to you but that's coming to you in a meeting in December so okay cool and so what the community will see is language that creates this or we become a part of it but all of this agreement will not be part of I mean they won't get that to read they have to go on the website if they want to know exactly what all the rules are okay but will the wording of the is it a warrant no well the actual valid valid item will be presented to you in December for what it would say on the ballot does it include money with it too they vote on the not in that not in that ballot not in that ballot we so if they pass it then that would just become part of our budget they wouldn't vote on it would be funding for that separately and it would give us a better sense of how many right that's right right okay all right because you wouldn't know what the cost is until you know who said yes it's worth the mercy of all this community so there are eight of us in this yeah in this let's put a nice shine on this thing right get other communities to go for it too oh there'll be a lot of things to I'm glad that I'll be on the ballot in March so I won't have to do the counting of all these different things you too because we'll have a lot of items on the ballot we'll talk about that for a second okay that's the next item on the agenda not this year maybe council council discussion regarding public facilities in the city center so in on your table tonight I handed out a an overview of what the city hall program looks like this is what Alana put together and this is for information purposes only so you can see the detail in this this is this sheet is only the city hall the library has its own and we just she finished it this week and so I thought it provided to you but the bigger issue is where do we stand with city center as it relates to the decision by the council to take this to some public facility to the voters in March as we know the TIF vote of last November approved TIF funding and debt for market street the remaining piece of market street and city center park city center park is under construction right now market street will go under construction in May of next year in the meantime expenditures have been made for right away easements and so on one other building in addition to cathedral square will need to be built in order to cover that obligation so we knew about cathedral square back at the vote one additional building will need to be built to generate the TIF revenue to meet the obligation for market street and city center park and then those will be covered any buildings after those two cathedral and the next building anything after that can go to new projects like library so in meeting with the developers last week they're making some progress on their permits and hope near term that they will have their permits completed but until then they're unable to negotiate with seriously with commercial and residential developers and so we're getting down to a decision time here they believe there's one other project that's coming in the pipeline after the two but they wouldn't commit to any more than that the great advantage we had at the vote last November is that we were able to explain to the voters where the money was coming from to pay for these projects and I'm afraid at this point I can't say to you and you to your voters that we have confidence that this amount of TIF revenue is going to be generated to pay for one third of a library the upshot of all this is that our recommendation is that the vote on the library or any public facility be delayed until November of 2018 now that doesn't mean that we can't continue to do work tonight you approve the hiring of an architect to begin the design work on the library that should continue and so as a practical matter this doesn't necessarily slow us down toward the opening of a new library this work has to be done anyway well we have to raise all the funds and the funding has to be raised some time to do that and in the context of where we'll be next September when you have to decide to put it on the November ballot by that point market streets going to be under construction garden street will largely be cut in through the forest cathedral will be up if not completed the park will be done and by then we will probably know with a reasonable certainty that x number of projects are in the pipeline can it be said that the targe coming online in October will also is already generating a little more interest in city center in south berlington you mean target yes the targe targe this is a Canadian term increased buzz and excitement absolutely absolutely there's going to be a greater buzz because that's an anchor it's not an important anchor it's not a huge anchor but it's still an anchor huge but in the classic sense of what anchors were 20 years ago it's strong but it's not like it was back then still that buzz will help I think certainly at the staff level we're going to be far more confident in making a recommendation to you for the November ballot then for the March ballot we're out of time have you shared this with Jennifer Murray and the library board I met with the library board leadership and Jennifer this morning could there be a change could there be a change could there be a change for the positive between now and February that's pretty good between now and January because you have to give the other thing that was so important last year is that we had enough lead up time to spend time educating the public about what a TIF district is what TIF revenues are you guys went out door to door it was very powerful and the vote reflected that we are running out of time do that I think it makes sense to put it off just the conversation to convince people I don't want to get a no vote I want stuff well I think we all went out we said basically we have the money to do what we expect to do and what we expected and my understanding was we were going to do the park and we were going to do the street and we were going to have the funds to do that and now I find that we cannot be without getting the second building enough to do both of those that's what we said at the time we knew cathedral was coming along and there was a strong sense that there was going to be another building and that hasn't changed because the developer is going to control that as opposed to a customer they are working for I guess I look at this and say I think the rationale to do in November once people see things are being accomplished more than just the clearing and what have you it generates a lot more I think it does and they will come and that's what we're hoping for and of course target I think is a big draw and I think that will do it as well but I think as sitting on the council in not being able to be privy to all the information because of the negotiations that go on but our confidence in you Kevin to guide us as to when the vote is going to be the most appropriate similar to my talking with the Viking pet folks who wanted a significant vote and I tried to discourage them from having it on the ballot the same time as our vote for the TIF projects because of not only the not just overburden but also to turn around and say our priority is to get our TIF district done so I trust your judgment on that and if November is better time my only question then comes is if we run a muck in November our time is ticking away or tip time and that's of a concern as well oh absolutely I think that this will slow us down a couple of months maybe but the design process will inform the voters and the design process is going to be as we've heard tonight some number of months that we'll have to give down anyway which we'll start we'll start immediately in anticipation of a positive response from the voters but it shouldn't slow us down against the expected opening time all along the other thing we need to consider and I brought it up earlier is parking I think that is a concern and so the parking garage was something that I had thought was always going to be included with an Allard Square library city hall and now I guess that's for us to decide well we had put that that notion to the school district around structured parking on the western portion of the Marcot school parking lot and that's still something we can go back to them but again that's but that requires that little land swap or at least giving some land right well we'll have to we should still continue talking to them about that we have time to do that now but that issue could come back again as well we still need to tip revenues for that too so but it is difficult and I agree with you Megan that looking at it a library requires parking not only for the staff obviously but it requires it for those that are there and there's the school hearing the number of spaces and I realize that during the daytime there are not a great deal of spaces over at the school that people use there are some though probably I think there would be a lot more that would use it here so the parking piece kind of raises priority when you're thinking of all of the ramifications that can have for people's access the city hall is going to be included or another you know rental you know property which is another question we're going to come to you with now you have more time to consider that but at some point in time you're going to have to decide what what facilities you want that's always been an assumption that there would be a city hall with or in conjunction with the library but at some point you're going to have to make that decision I think if you get to that in the spring or in the summer you'll have you'll be more informed as to what what's going to come in by way of tip I think I do a parking when I think of a structured parking I'm thinking of four or five layers and the demands for that I suppose some residential units would support that but I also think of it as we need some commercial pull retail of some sort to justify building a big parking garage I mean I don't think the city would necessarily need to pay for or use all our tip revenues or should use all our tip revenues to build a huge parking structure that allows somebody else to build five stories of housing and use that as their parking for their housing I always thought of the parking as being similar to what Montpelier had done you know and they had it as almost an addendum onto their retail shopping place downtown it's like a city center type thing and I thought that was wonderful because you had access you know in there it was easy parking from the top down but when we bring up the other piece and I know it was in there I had brought something up at the last meeting physically I think the one we've got some questions on the minutes but I've had a number of people that have said well if we do build a new city hall we've put money into the old city hall who would want to buy city hall and I think that you were getting an appraisal on it or something like that you know on there and I just sat here and I started thinking of the different entities or whatever that would find it comfortable to buy or structure here you know if we were to to move because it's in beautiful shape right now but you know it would still have to be reconfigured for you know office or whatever and do people want it I mean it's great parking it's great visibility to our fire department so it's kind of like and noise and noise noise you know only when they're going out did you get that every place so are you is there a head nod around the table about that as we have talked about March being a decision time if you're okay then we'll recalibrate everything too I think we could consider an August vote there's an August primary but we're advised to shy away from doing something like this that big yes I wouldn't do it in August you want to get a better turnout you don't want it to look like you're just trying to shove it under with just a few voters okay good thank you good we're going down to 19 an hour and a half late two hours late we enter the South Rowinton liquor control board all in favor all right and I move that we approve eco bean and greens and double tree by Hilton what is eco beans is it in the blue mall don't check it out is it open do you know what it is where is it liquor control board where is it don't you like did somebody say where eco beans is you find out where to it's in the blue mall is that where the old okay so we have a motion to approve eco bean and greens and double tree by Hilton any further discussion all in favor signify by saying aye other business the dog park oh I'm sorry a motion to come out of South Rowinton liquor control board all in favor okay we are out we're now back to it's the double tree old chariton now you know that the chariton is now the double tree double tree left trader dukes it's now the trader duke's hotel the chariton has been bought by Hilton Hilton is going to install their own management they're going to do a $10 million renovation starting soon over the next summer maybe we can get them to put south park doing future renovation to get the rooms and meals to I won't talk to the powers that be arm wrestle over that other business the dog park I have three questions on the dog park okay I'd love to answer not necessarily tonight but I heard we were looking at other locations across town we want more dog parks so I think that might be something to address his concerns if we have some promise of that also I heard you say we're going to put signs up so I'm wondering if those signs are going to say please keep your dogs quiet so that was a question also do we know how much spent on putting the fencing in just to have that idea overall decision making point but I'd love to know how much we spent on the money there you go this is up now a much bigger one getting made into an actual sign we'll go out on a it's on a sandwich board now it says let's keep the noise down this is the neighborhood park please control your dogs barking thank you I have to say yeah I mean I don't go often but I've never been struck by you're not going to keep a dog point I know you're not I guess I have a quiet dog and I guess we go at low traffic times my daughter used dog parks in Manhattan did you want to see this all the time and until her dog was attacked by another dog and then she stopped but you know when I end to see in the need for people to leave the dogs off what do dogs do dogs bark and we've got this maybe in an inappropriate place yeah oh yeah no I feel if when we have this on an agenda I think Tom wanted to know what we have already spent on this yeah yeah well because we had to construct it and buy materials it was 17 how much 17 grand between materials that was for the new funding and stuff we can reuse the material we can reuse all the material most anyway so what a feral cost us what a feral cost us used most of the materials I was just curious I want to say 7 that was a great spot because it's surrounded by trees and businesses although I don't know whether they're not happy what was the area this is the only complaint we've gotten here I understand that what was the area that the gentleman was talking about at the park where he thought it was you know where the dolphins played football oh where in that section in the back I mean it's worth looking at it I mean I do there's a house back there too is there an A's house back there too yeah so we got another house back there are there other spots we're looking at I thought I heard we wanted three or four dollar marks we're looking at red rocks and we're looking potentially at an area on Wheeler that would be next to the parking lot not the Wheeler homestead parking lot but the swiss street parking lot those could both be bigger we get regular complaints about dogs running loose in red rocks anyway and a couple of bigger sized parks would be good for bigger dogs too so there's a lot of walk-in use of the park at JC I go and sit sometimes and you see people walking in from the neighborhood so if people are in fact driving cars they drive to red rocks or drive to Wheeler if we can get those parks built yeah red rocks would be in the woods so that would be fairly protected from the homes it would be one of the old parking lots I think that was part of the management plan it was one of the old parking areas but it could be further housing I think the noise is a consideration when I was on the DRB we were hearing the plan for the dog spa up on Hinesburg Road then Rye was also getting ready to break ground so I was like oh great you're going to have dogs adjacent to a residential area so they did do some redesign and made a fence that was taller we can look at restricted hours certainly after dark we shouldn't have people in the parks but we can look at restricted hours and we can enforce that and we can ask the public to keep their dogs I mean try to keep the dog under control yeah I think when they're running you can tell your dog no I mean it is you train your dog it's the millennial dog problem they just don't listen okay the time is late so we'll have this on an agenda we can have a fuller discussion would it be okay if we made full site visits to that park oh yeah I want to go over talk to the people they love it it's interesting the house next door didn't complain well they have a dog that barks all the time yes there are a lot of people in that neighborhood that walk to that park with their dogs so yeah I've never been there when it's been noisy not everyone drives can you have them at your place I've been over there I know we're about to meet the dog and it was noisy got a lot of fun yeah it may be different times and you get all the noisy dogs together maybe it's too little like those classrooms that are disruptive I've had some of those um you know so it maybe it's too small probably underscores that there's a large demand for dog parks and um if you have one little skinny one in it it's not big enough small park for small dogs big park for big dogs you know in some cities they do have that they have separate areas so within it we get right Jack Russell's get 12 square yards the little dog one is pretty small can you answer Pat's question in some of which we can hear the baseball games and that sort of stuff but not the dogs not the dogs well his house is a great buffer but we know your chair so okay the item 21 has been scratched because of the October 2nd you got the minutes October 2nd it was on page 5 under number 14 is this something that you submitted to me that didn't get yeah it didn't get in there page 5 and I think it's important because it has to do with the funding that we were going to give to the GBIC, the chamber and the convention bureau and I actually went back and listened to channel 17 just to be sure that my understanding was correct and it was and I somewhat quoted from it so so it is the second one under number 14 if this would be one time or continuing with page 5 page 5 Mr. Doran anticipated it would be continuing but not the funding source he said Mr. Doran said that the council could create a special line item account for the chief sustainability officer for fiscal year 19 and refund these organizations the transfer of funds is for now in order to get the new initiative off the ground we have section 14 of that okay Mr. Doran said what paragraph are we on it's the second one under number 14 okay second oh there we anticipated so if we have it typed out I can send it to whoever so instead of Mr. Doran anticipated it would be continuing which he said was with regard to the chief sustainability officer but with regard to the funding source he said Mr. Doran so I'm using the third person Mr. Doran said that the council could create a special line item account for the chief sustainability officer for fiscal year 19 and refund these organizations to fund the organization refund the transfer of funds is for now in order to get the new initiative off the ground and re you know hyphen fund right next is that acceptable that comes straight off the tape to approve as amended you're going to have to send it to me I just can't find it oh I think that's who he has it do you want Tim to this is 10-2 I can send it to you again 10-2 just send me an email I'll go back and change it and I'll just send it back to Selene okay I'm going to forward it to you we need to approve it next meeting we can approve it now can't we as amended yeah because he's going to send the amendment wait for a second second all those in favor aye motion do adjourned second probably bring it to you in your packet or the stuff I handed out there's a memo from Andrew we're going to get back into the ordinance cycle and that's just an overview of where he is with those so probably next meeting you'll be seeing some difference where it's in your work plan I will not be here at the next meeting but so we need to I would like to have you here on the 4th we've got the copy of the address and she said no