 Okay, thank you everyone for being here. We're going to talk about sustaining the community through mentorship. And I'm Hussain Abbas. I usually go with the name Hussain, where we were online on Twitter or D.O.T.O, pretty much everywhere. I'm an engineering manager at a company called Accelerant. It's based in India and in U.S. But we are a remote working company and it's like we're all over the world. I have contributed to Drupal code and organizing events and stuff. I speak at various events. And like I said, you can find me on Twitter. So we are going to talk about mentorship over here. And I just want to take this time and mention that I'm quite proud of my team at Accelerant. We have a very strong team support model for, mentorship is one of the tools that we use to make sure that, especially in a remote environment like Accelerant, the team stays connected and the team feels relevant. So like we saw in the keynote today that you're making a difference. You may think the difference is small but you're making a difference. How do you realize that? It's very easy in a remote environment which is especially the case in the Drupal ecosystem. You would feel disconnected. How do you use various tools to make sure you stay connected? You feel relevant. So a little history, like we have been hearing this origin stories all day, a little bit of myself. I won't go too deep into my origins. But when I was quite young, like in school years and everything, I always felt that it was the responsibility of the student to actually learn something. It's not so much a responsibility of the teacher. You learning something, it's completely your own doing. The teacher is just there to tell you about the topic but the desire comes from you. And yeah, I still think that but over the years I've realized that it's not such a clear-cut case. So this is a very famous line from this movie, The Karate Kid. No such thing, bad student, there's only bad teacher. And over the years I have felt that it's the responsibility of teachers, especially when the students are really young. It's the responsibility of teachers to attract, to help to guide the students in the most efficient path possible forward. Because the teacher knows, student doesn't really know what's the best way forward. So this has been a shift of opinions, so to speak, over the years. And it's, how do I quote it? It's more about, it has come through self-reflection. So when it comes to computers and everything, I've been pretty much self-thought. And over the years I got very good at things that you could learn out of books or you can learn online. But quite bad at things that you can't really learn from books, like how do you manage yourself? How do you do time management? Those are the things that I'm working on right now. So how do you learn stuff like that? We talk about cutting edge technology, right? We talk about the latest trends and all of those things in the technology world. But there is another challenge. There's another challenge of how to stay relevant in this busy world, productivity is paramount and everything is grabbing for, like everything is trying to grab your attention. The smartphones, Twitter feeds, Facebook feed and everything. There are things like these that you can't just learn from a book. How do you learn? And again, there are various ways. But one of the things that I'm going to talk about here is a mentor. So the dictionary says that mentor is an experienced and trusted advisor. And notice over here, it's nothing really about scale. There's nothing about the scale or the technology. But the word is experience. And trusted. So this is kind of a prerequisite for this teacher-student relation. Which, and trust becomes especially important in this relationship as in this age. If you're talking about children, it's a different story. The trust is kind of implicit. But over here, the trust becomes extremely important. And of course, when you're talking about experience. So we say things like in this day of constant change, experience could be a worst enemy. And I mean, if you look at it from that point of view, like if you're going to stick to your experience and think that nothing else is possible here, it could be a worst enemy. But that's not the case. It's like you have to look at it from the lens of somebody who has grown over the years. And those are the kind of things you learn from a mentor. So, well, you know, there's a very thin line between a teacher and a mentor. Mentor, I would say that experience plays a big role. Teacher is somebody who just, you know, gives you information, so to speak. But a mentor, and by the way, teacher can be a great mentor. A mentor is somebody who guides, you know, whom you can trust. Because, you know, this can't work without trust. You know, you have to be invested in that relationship, the mentor-mentee relationship. And if you don't trust your mentor, you would never know that the advice the mentor is giving you is sound. Or if the mentor has your best interest in his heart. So, trust and experience. And, so let's talk about, you know, why mentor? And I would actually go as far as saying this, you know, you're already a mentor, even if you don't realize it yet. Well, I said it, I guess somebody else might have said it before me, but I don't know. So, I'm having a lot of conversations, and you know, like the whole point of going to events like this is, you know, you have conversations with people. And yesterday, today, just before this, just before I walked into this room, I was having a conversation with someone. And he mentioned that, you know, like there was a speaker who was really nervous. Like, I mean, yeah, speakers are always nervous. So, and he helped him out, you know, that, okay, yeah, this is how you present. This is how you gain a little bit of confidence while presenting. This is what you do. Some of the tricks over here. And he mentioned it today, like, you know, it was not on a scale of, you know, mentorship, so to speak, but he just, sorry. He just helped the person out. And I think that comes, you know, that small help, that small pieces of advising of the small tips and tricks may not mean anything to him. But it means, it might have made all the difference in that talk to the speaker, which is kind of what we heard about today morning, you know. What is that line, you know? You know, many things that we do might appear like Superman flying to somebody else. And this is something that, you know, that's very, very easy for us to underestimate about ourselves, you know, that, okay, this, you know, it's just much of like, like how Chris quoted, you know, it's just much of CSS and JavaScript. But it might actually make all the difference in somebody's life. So, again, why mentor? And like, you know, I'm hoping that over the next few slides, you will form a reason. There is, I mean, of course, I can tell you that, you know, mentorship has a lot of benefits, but I'm just going to talk about it in the next few slides. So one thing is no one stops learning, you know. We know that in the tech industry more than any of the industry that like every other week, there is a new thing to learn. There is a new, I'm like, of course, all of us are familiar with JavaScript, right? There's a new framework every two weeks. So no one really stops learning. You know, you always have to stay on edge, you know, to figure out, you know, if the next thing that you're trying to learn, is it relevant today? How do you know that? Okay, and it's very easy to get stuck where you are, like doing the same things that you do for years and years, and you know, you never see what else is possible. So how many of you are from Drupal 7 days? Can you guess? Drupal 7, Drupal 6, right? Okay, so you would have seen that we made a radical shift in Drupal 8, right? And this came from outside. It was not something like that we dreamed of that, okay, let's architect our classes in this fashion, you know, let's build this whole system this way. We just used what symphony was doing, and many of the frameworks in PHP are doing. We looked at other JavaScript frameworks, we picked up what they are doing, and that's the crux here, you know, we went out, we kept learning, and that is how we reinvented ourselves, because we need to stay relevant, right? And well, of course, this is again, you know, very, very common notion, you know, that if you can't be replaced, you can't be promoted. So all these learnings that you gather, you know, all these learnings that, yeah, that you gather, you know, if you can't, if you can't pass that on, you're not really, yeah, that thing is there, that, you know, you're not really helping somebody else, that's on one side of things, but you can't move out now. You can't move out of what you're doing, and like, let's face it, you know, like as developers, as engineers, you know, as people, we always want change, you know, we want to move on to something else, and so like, I don't know if you're familiar with this movie, anyone, it gets marked by the way. This guy, he's an analyst, and he wants to become an agent, but he's such a good analyst, that there's nobody else who can do his job, and he can't become an agent, but anyway, he becomes an agent because he has to, but those things don't really happen, right? So yeah, if you can't be replaced, if you can't pass on your learnings to somebody else, you can't move on, right? And it's like, you know, very, very succinctly, but you know, you just want to try to scale creativity, you know, if you're trying, it's not just handing over the information, but you're handing over perspective, when you're mentoring someone, when you're telling somebody how you learn something, how you work on something, you're passing on perspective, which is very, very necessary for something like creativity to flourish. So all this is fine, you know, and like, you know, so far, whatever we saw, I suspect we are already doing that. Like, it's very hard to go through this to a day-to-day job without actually teaching anyone anything, you know? So that's why I said earlier that, you know, whether you know it or not, we're actually all mentors. And by the way, little spoiler, Badi's talk will actually talk a lot more about all of these concepts, but specifically from a Drupal perspective. So that's at 2 p.m., by the way. So now, how do you, there's these mentorship concepts. How do you measure it? How do you make it formal? How do you take it to the next step so that essentially that you are a mentor and know that you're mentoring, right? Like I said, you're already a mentor. You just don't know it yet, probably. But now, know that you're mentoring and how do you know you're doing a good job at that? So, one of the things is that you, now, if you form a mentor and mentor relationship, one of the things is that you have to be investing in your mentee's success. That's actually your success, you know? So can I show fans, you know, how many of us are developers and managers? Developers, okay, most of us are developers. But one thing about managers, you know, you would have heard is that a manager's success is not, is strongly tied to the developer's success, you know? One of the things that, you know, when I transitioned to the engineering manager role, it's the first thing I learned was, you know, that you're not going to go in and save the day, you know, you're not going to go and fix bugs. Even if it's, like, you know, even if you think that, oh yeah, I can fix it immediately. You know, I just swoop in, fix the bug, save the day, and move on. That's not your job. Your job is now to let people do that, you know? To help them, you know? They may take longer than you, that's fine. But you're now going to let them figure it out themselves, you know? You might be very attracted, you know, so you're like, let's say you're working on a new project, you know, and it's like, it has, it needs an impressive architecture, and you're working on that. You think that you can do a very good job at this architecture, and you take it up, and you know, like, there is a fancy algorithm you need to implement, and you want to do that. But as a manager, or as a tech leader, leader of any kind, you can't do that anymore. You have to let somebody else figure it out. Even if that person is going to take two or three times your time. Two or three times the time that you would need. You have to step back, let them enjoy, let them learn, and let them be successful. And in doing that, that is your success. This is one of the first things you need to realize about being a mentor. You probably won't have all those fancy, you know, save-the-day gratitude coming your way, you know, like what we've seen in superhero movies. So, you know, actually, again, one of the slides from today morning, earlier today, was the Black Panther, you know, and I tweeted about it, but I mean, it was too late to put it in my slides. So it's like the Black Panther film, again, you know, for those who have seen it. So as spoilers, anyone who is afraid of spoilers? Okay. I watched it. Well, anyway, so this King Chathaka and his son, I forgot his name, anyone know his name? The protagonist? But anyway, so he is, they are very comfortable in their, I'm forgetting all the names right now, what's the name of that area? So, of their country, you know, so like they're very, very comfortable in the country. They're highly advanced and they're hidden from the rest of the world, and they don't show it. They might have saved the world so many times, but they don't show it, you know. So that's what, you know, you're celebrating your success in private, you know. You're not really that kind of superhero who goes all out and, you know, saves the day and everybody's thanking you. Another thing is feedback, you know. So, and this is one of, actually, one of the most trickiest things I've seen, even personally, it's my job to provide feedback to all my team members. And it's, it seems like a very simple word, but in practice, it's actually very complex because you can, yeah, I mean, like you would have worked with the person, you know, exactly what the person needs to work upon and you can give that feedback. But that's what, you know, I mean, like I'm drawing that manager leader distinction over here, that's something that a manager would do. That's not something that a leader would do. Leader, when a leader provides feedback, the intent of the leader is to see that the feedback is implemented, okay? So, the feedback that you're giving, do you think that is being received? You have to be careful about that. You know, you may dole out, you know, harsh criticism and like I can tell you from personal experience that even if the criticism is completely true, it'll simply bounce off me, you know. I can come up with dozens of excuses that you know, why it does not apply to me. Yeah, that happened. I agree with your feedback, but I don't agree with the corrective actions, you know, you're suggesting. Because it doesn't apply to me. There are, and here are like two dozen excuses, you know, why it doesn't apply to me. Instead, one of the things that I try to practice is that if the person, you know, like, yeah, your job is to still give feedback. Your job is to still give, still direct corrective actions. But one of the ways, one of the strategies I've come up with is like, praise the person for the action you want to see. So if somebody is, you know, not testing the code and that one time, you know, like the person makes a small change and he tests it before putting it in production and everything is fine, praise him for that small thing. And that is the behavior you want to motivate. That's the feedback you want to give. You may not be giving the harsh feedback that you wanted to say, but you give the feedback that the person needed to hear to make the change. So again, seems very simple, seems very simple, but insanely complex to put it in action because it's no two scenarios are the same. You have to think about it. Most of my days are spent in thinking about how do I write the next line to my team members? What do I say? And again, as mentors, you're responsible. People watch you. One of the books I'm reading, Primal Leadership, you might have come across it, says that the brain, the way our brain is architected. We have something called an open loop. I'm actually trying to simplify a lot. So if you have read the book and if you think that if I'm being completely wrong about it, please apologize for that. But in very simple terms, it puts it this way. There is an open loop. And if you see somebody behaving a certain way, you mirror the behavior. You need that other person to close the loop. So the example it draws is that in our body, there are closed loop systems, which is things like our blood circulatory system. You don't really need an external agency to act on it. But then there are things that are completely, that are part of this open loop, which is our emotional system. We play off other's emotions. If I make a joke over here, all of you laugh. I laugh and all of you laugh. So that's an open system. And so these are the emotions people play off. And as a manager, as a mentor, your actions are noticed. You may not realize it, but all your actions are noticed. And people do play off that. If you're very tensed, if you don't respect the people you work with, if you're shouting at them, people know that. People become resistant to that. I mean, it's not rocket science. It's very, very obvious. And if you take everything as it comes in, if you're open, if you don't show any signs of anxiety, people will be more open to that. They'll be in happy spirits. And of course, like a person who is happy produces better results. So again, feedback, like I said, it's probably most underestimated parts of the mentoring, the whole manager leadership side. So let's talk a bit about mentorship at work. And we have already talked about it a lot. So anyone know this guy, Anthony Ferrara? He is quite, you know, popular in PHP circles. So on Twitter, you know, like you do, you ask, you ask a question, you know, like, how do you know that a person you're hiring is a good fit for you? And Anthony replies that, you know, ask them about how they were empowered, mentored by a co-worker, and asked about how they empowered or mentored another co-worker. Okay, so these are, you know, the trend I'm hoping to show here is that these things are becoming more and more relevant in today's world. You know, you might think that you can write a, you know, you've learnt React and you can write a fancy SPA and that's enough for you to get your job. Maybe it is, but it's not enough for you to groove. It's not enough for you to move on to something, you know, to have that perspective to move on. And like I said earlier, everybody is a mentor, you know. Know that. If you know that, you know that, you know, did you empower somebody at any time, you know? Were you empowered by somebody else? Did you empower, did you do the same thing for somebody else? You know, did you help someone out? And, you know, again, like I said, we all underestimate ourselves all the time, you know. So I'll just take a minute, you know, you can read that. Well, in short, we try to overdo it, you know. When we think that, you know, we have to mentor someone, we fancy, maybe imagine a fancy position that, you know, okay, I'm a mentor now, you know, like, likes of being called a dictator on the known universe. It's not really that, obviously it isn't. It's, all you have to do is that, you know, have a conversation like you would have with a friend. But now that you know that the conversation you're having, the person is probably going to mirror that. The person is probably going to listen to you, implement that, whatever advice you're giving the person, he or she is going to implement that in her own life. Be mindful of that and just share your stories. That's all you need to do, really. You know, so at work, we have, you know, all these various tools, you know, we have one-on-ones. One-on-ones is actually a great tool for mentorship. Really, all you need, just figure out, you know, how often can you have a one-on-one with all your mentees and talk to them, you know, you don't have to have a conversation, you don't have to have a planned conversation. Just let it flow. So one of the rules is that, as a mentor, your job is to listen, rather than talk. You're primarily doing the listening and when the person seeks help, you give them, you know, because most of the times, you know, somebody doesn't, somebody's not really looking for advice, they're looking for a sounding board. And sometimes being a mentor means being a sounding board because that alone can make the difference in the person's life. Again, you know, being a mentor is not about having your say, you know, say that, okay, I got to tell something to the other person, that's not what mentorship is about. It's actually much more rewarding. Being a mentor is about having made a difference in somebody's life. Then of course, you know, some of the other tools that we use for mentorship is the career ladder. And so this is kind of a formal document that explains that, you know, that to achieve the so-and-so role, you need to have so-and-so skills. And these are technological skills, these are mentorship skills, communication skills and everything. And of course growth. So we have mentors since about early 2017, formal mentors at Accelerant. And these are the kind of feedbacks that we receive. And it's very positive, you know, it certainly helps people when done, right? And of course, you know, it doesn't mean that our mentors are perfect. You know, we always have to educate mentors. And, you know, Badi is going to talk more about it today afternoon. So we, like, you know, we have a mentor, you know, we have a life coach who trains the mentors, you know, what I just said, you know, like, how do you actually listen to someone? How do you actually help someone? You know, we have a life coach who helps everyone out with that. And, you know, one of the other tools we use is OKR. But this is not really about mentorship, but it certainly helps over there. Anyone familiar with OKRs? All right, so OKRs is just a system of, you know, tracking your goals that, I think Google introduced it sometime back. It just stands for objective and key results. So you would say that this is my objective, this is something that I want to do, and these are the key results by which I'll measure it. And so, you know, as mentors, one of our jobs is to help people set their OKRs, help people achieve their OKRs. And that's a whole discussion, a whole different discussion. So, one of the things I sort of, it's not mentioned here, but one of the things I want to point out is, again, like, sort of, you know, an anti-pattern of mentorship, so to speak. Mentorship, sometimes, you know, this one-on-ones especially, sometimes they become checking calls. You know, that you just talk to a mentee, you just talk to a person and, you know, see that if the person is stuck somewhere, you know, if you can help that person, you know, just get the status, move them past the, like, move them past where they are stuck and go about your day. That's actually an anti-pattern. It doesn't really help anyone. That's like the short-term problem-solving. As mentors, your job is to aim for the long-term problem-solving. That's one of the most common feelings we see, you know, so I thought it's a good thing to share here, even though it's not specifically mentioned over here. So, well, moving back to the conversation, moving back to the topic of the presentation, which is sustaining open-source. So, it's a complex economic problem, you know. We have heard over the last few years of tragedy of commons and all the various issues that we deal with, you know, like, you know, we're all volunteers over here. How do we spend enough time to grow this project, you know? And one of the things is, you know, like, I mean, how many of you are familiar with the term bus factor? Fair few. So, bus factor essentially says that how many people, I mean, it's, you know, it's kind of black comedy, but how many people should be hit by bus for the project to fail? So, any project, not just open-source projects, any project, you know, they use this term to say that, you know, how reliable the project is, the health of the project. So, if somebody is suddenly unavailable, you know, can the project continue? So, a mentorship model, you know, this is actually playing along the lines of the earlier slide I mentioned, you know, that if you can't be replaced, you can't be promoted. So, make yourself redundant, you know. Have somebody else take your place. That's actually the whole point of being a leader anyway, you know. You don't do things that you might have wanted to do, but now you're doing things that actually help someone else. And if you're making yourself redundant, you're reducing the bus factor, and that's what mentorship is all about, you know. You can actually go take a vacation, you know. Ever fancied a four-hour, four-hour week work? Sorry, four-hour work week, I'm mixing up. So, Drupal is actually already known for its strong mentorship model, you know, Kethites and, you know, there are a lot of other community members who provide a strong mentorship model, you know. So, like, if you go to a sprint, there are, typically, there are mentors at such trends, where, you know, like, so if you're not sure how do you start contributing, there is a path, you know, there is a journey you can follow, and the mentors help you along the journey, you know. They can help you find your strengths, and, you know, put you in touch with the right people who can help you. So, Drupal already has a strong mentorship model, but that doesn't mean it's perfect. Again, you know, Badi is going to talk more about it today afternoon. So, like I mentioned, you know, core contribution mentoring, by the way, there is, there are, sorry, the core contribution mentoring calls happens every month, I think so far, and mentoring in sprints happens wherever sprints happen. So, DrupalCon Nashville, so this is from where, this is from Baltimore. So, again, at Nashville, we'll have a sprint and Fatema Sada Khalil, anyone know? She goes by the Twitter handle, the sugar overflow. She's going to lead that, the first time sprint. So, these are the things that are quite common. You know, it just reflects the whole Drupal contribution process, how strong it is, how, and like, what mentors do to make it, to make it this strong. So, how do you improve Drupal, you know? I mean, these just talk about patches and reviews. And, I mean, this is what you would think, right? And how do you include Drupal? That is two core contributions, you know? How can I contribute patches? How can I contribute reviews? And if that's the direction you want to get started with? You know, mentors are there to help you. But now, we don't really have mentors to help someone, at least not yet, you know? We don't have mentors to help someone in the non-code contribution side of things, right? Like, what if somebody wants to organize an event in the city? How do you seek help for that? Those are the things that we are going to explore further. And like, you might know that the credit system, the Drupal credit system actually comes all of these things, patches, reviews and all that, but not non-code contributions. Again, that's a different discussion and I kind of talked about it yesterday a little in my other session about building a contribution culture. So, that's it for me. Any questions? It's hard to, you know, mentor everybody at one sort of thing. How would you get your staff to want to sort of mentor down the plot? Okay. So, it depends on the size of your team, really. How about six or seven of us? Okay. In that case, this is somewhere where a mentorship can spring out in organically. Sorry, organically, not in organically. It can spring up organically. They might be, so a team of six, seven people, they might be somebody who naturally emerges as a team leader. And that person is sometimes strongly suited for mentoring. But then there are other factors you need to consider over here. Maybe that person is like an extreme introvert and cannot really get on a call talking about these kind of stuff. So again, you know, I mentioned in one of my first slides that mentorship is about experience and trust. It's not really about skills, right? As long as a mentor can, you know, can tell someone how to learn, but not actually teach, that's fine, in my opinion. You know, because I think that's a more valuable skill than just learning. You can go to YouTube and find dozens of videos to learn at technology. You probably can't find a video about how to learn that that is tailored for you. I mean, I know there are theories, there are courses, you know, on how to learn. But a mentor, you know, a mentor, a conversation you can have with your mentor is specifically tailored around you, because, I mean, of course, you're talking about your experiences in there. So in your case, you know, a team of six, seven people, if you can find a person who naturally emerges as a team leader, and if that person is ready to accept that responsibility, you know, of formal mentorship. I'm like, so, again, you know, like everybody is a mentor without knowing that. So this person is already mentoring others, but now that person has to take on this form, take on this role formally. And if he or she can, great. But if not, that's okay. And you just find somebody who can help people, you know, who can help people be open, you know. Again, some of the traits you can notice is that these are traits actually, naturally emerging leader would have anyway, that, you know, so people are more comfortable around that person, you know, and people talk a lot, you know, like the conversations, we are into personal topics, you know, and all those things. So these are the some of the signs you can pick up on. And, you know, you can see that that person would be the best mentor for your team. And then like, you know, just make it formal, you know, structuring one-on-ones, make it monthly. So we use a tool called Seven Gees, that has this OKRs and Mentorship, sorry, Mentorship Boundary Built-In. The feedback system is built-in over there. So if you're, like, you know, you can look into that, or I think I'm sure there are, you know, dozens of other tools that do this. So use a tool, I mean, even a spreadsheet is fine, you know, you don't really need to invest in all these tools. And see what works for you. Do monthly one-on-ones call, do they make a difference? So first of all, do they happen? You know, sometimes you have to push, at least initially you have to push people to make sure that these calls happen, right? But when they buy into the idea, then you don't no longer have to push. So one of the things we did to incentivize this was to put it as KPIs. So our mentors actually had KPIs to end of a life coach as well. She has KPIs to make sure that the 100% of people have one-on-ones every month, at least once a month. And then it becomes a responsibility, you know. So it might appear that you're forcing something, but sometimes you need to do that to bring in a practice. And again, you know, it's like, some things may work differently in your case. Just have to experiment and find out what works best for you. Yeah, it's around 40 people, engineers. But I think overall we are 50, 55. And so there are mentorships, like most of what I talked about today was relevant to engineering. But it applies to other streams, you know. Mentorship is just having a mentor-mentor-mentee relationship, that's all. You know, it's like, like I say over here, you know, it's like, it's been around forever. And it's probably the most important relationship you can build in your career, not just in an engineering career, in whatever you're doing. So just for the, you know, again, in this case, you know, in this 35, 40-people team, it's not possible to have one mentor. So we actually have, like, several mentors. And then, so like, it's not a very flat structure that we would like, but I mean, there's something that we have to do. But again, the next experiment, we'll see how this goes. How would you go about seeking out the right mentor for you and sort of making the available mentor space? Yeah, yeah, that's actually, that's a very relevant question and it's a challenge. If I were to, so, you know, everyone's different, you know, everyone has a different style. If I were to do this, I would search out for someone in my local community first, you know, somebody who I can meet, like, face-to-face, not over Skype call. I would look out for somebody who is, so you always aspire to a certain role, that you know, you see yourself as, that oh, I wish I could be doing that, you know. So I try to find someone in my local community who's already doing that, you know. You know that phrase, dress for the job you want, not the job you have. It's something like that, you know, like, target the person in that job that you want. Not necessarily a peer, you know. Peers can be great mentors by the way, but if you can't find a mentor, one of the signs in my experience is probably that you're not where you aspire to be, you know. You have different thoughts about that maybe. So go find someone in your local community who can help you, who is ready to help you. And finding is, I know your question is about finding, and finding is a challenge. Some of the things I would try to do, so if this was like a technology kind of thing that I wanted to bridge, you know, that I wanted to learn a new technology and I'm trying to find a mentor over there, I would search on meetup.com to see what meetups are around and see, you know, attend enough of those meetups to see if I can strike a connection with somebody else. You know, and then have a conversation with that person and see if we want to take this into formaterity. Sometimes you may realize that, okay, we are good, you know, with this being organic, just having a conversation with that person helps you out. That's great. Okay, any other questions, comments? You can find me on Hussain Web. I don't have my Twitter handle and all the slides this time, but yeah, that's, you can always tweet me there. And thank you for coming.