 Hi, I just did an interview with Farooja at Shattered Reality podcast and she was great She is great and was great to do this interview with me because I really wanted to get her views on This evil stuff. I've been looking into so she doesn't have a YouTube channel So I'm posting it here, but you can also find this on her shattered reality podcast here goes And how about this? How about this here? I'm gonna share the screen for a minute because I wanted to Something here. I was looking for stuff on Farooja and I Found this you're so big-time. This is probably nothing to you But look at this Yeah, like Shelton and Jimmy Fallon from two years ago I did the tonight show with Jimmy Fallon who's got to be the most Lovely person imaginable You know, that's nice of you to say because I'm glad to hear you said it because he seems like You hear a lot of stuff, you know about everybody, but he seems nice But that was so so cool that you that you did that. He's really talented He really deserves where he's gotten. He is fairly local. He comes from upstate, New York People I know know people in his family He's just a very very lovely Genuine person and he's not gotten where he's gotten because of any sort of nepotism He is a true talent and I can't praise him enough in terms of that. He's really a true talent That's awesome. You know and one other thing and this is great because I can include this in on my portion of The feed and that you don't necessarily have to do it on on yours, but I Honestly had a question about your show because I love your show and I stopped listening to it because it wasn't coming through my feed anymore and It kind of got cut off and now it's rebooted I don't even know if it's rebooted, but I missed a lot of these later shows I'm going through them really fast, but you have just some terrific shows and I guess the silver lining for me is there's a bunch of them that I haven't listened to but what's going on with shattered reality well shattered reality has been around for about four years almost five years coming up and We have temporarily, I hope lost Kate Valentine due to you know personal matters that she's going through and We respect that and welcome her back when she's willing to come back, which we hope is soon And who is Kate? Who is Kate Valentine? Kate Valentine Is a UFO enthusiast and she had a show called the Kate Valentine UFO show She also had a science related show the name of which You know para science kind of stuff that you do too and I and we do together Kate and I But they were two separate shows and she has she is a UFO Experiencer and she is more of a nuts and bolts person than I am but we have been able to meld our Ideas and kind of bounce off one another when she was available, but right now it's only me and I am a slow, but deep thinker Alex so Sometimes it takes me a few seconds to get my know about slow. I think you are a deep thinker I should introduce you a little bit for the purposes of my show. Okay? Absolutely so Alex Sikaris is a successful entrepreneur who now hosts a very popular podcast called skeptical much of which is Concentrated on consciousness And in addition, I want to say that he has written why science is wrong about almost everything And he's now putting the final touches on why evil matters how science and religion Bumbled a big one. He is from Chicago, Illinois He has an MBA from Western Illinois University and pursued a PhD at the University of Arizona So that's Alex and I would start my question of Alex with a very softball question Which is um, is there a reason why both of your books start with why I mean Is that a really good marketing technique or is it just happened that way? Well, I don't know. Maybe I think I kind of got it stuck in my head or something I it wasn't super intentional, but it did it did have a nice bit kind of to it For a whole series of books about why why why no, I don't really see that and and you know this I never really even thought about doing the second book, but you know, we should alert people here that You were so nice to do this interview Because first I reached out to you and I said I'm working on this project. Why evil matters and I really think you have something unique to offer on this topic and That's why I wanted to make it this Dialogue and you were nice enough to kind of break with your format and say yeah, we could just kind of have this conversation about it Because I think Exciting to me, you know, I've listened to so many of your so many of your interviews and I've thought wow, you know I'd like to hear more about Ferocia and you know the guests are great you have top-notch guests But oftentimes I'd like to hear more about your experiences and what you've done and you are you know highly acclaimed as a psychic and you've moved in some amazing circles in New York and I don't think that that doesn't seem to have gotten to your head in terms of you're still out there in the trenches Exploring you know doing shows on what's the latest latest UFO research What's the latest near-death experience research? And I think that's really cool because you're not like putting on this You know these heirs of I'm a psychic You know, that's terrific, I don't do that for this reason Well, I'm truly interested in the research And there was a woman who was a friend of mine and why still hold dear on a certain level and At one point she's well-known. She hangs around in very flashy circles. She was my client and She said to me for Russia. Who do you want to meet in the world? Do you want to meet Robert Redford or do you want to meet some famous person and I said no, I really want to meet I want to meet like Who do I want to meet? Russell Tark I want to meet Russell Tark What's that and other people, you know other people Like Richard Smolley and people like that. I wanted to meet those people. She didn't know them and that started Something going in my mind and I said if these people aren't famous to the average New Yorker And then they're well-known in their own fields. Absolutely Then I can meet them too. And so I decided to just study up join the society for scientific Exploration join Irva because I've done quite a bit of remote viewing through the Monroe Institute and the Omega Institute and I just decided to do that and I started writing blogs about it and then Podcasting happened and it was really really exciting and so I got to meet a lot of these people But unlike other psychics that I know, I don't really make any claims I've been psychic on some level since childhood or Intuitive, let's just say intuitive because psychic has all kinds of Strings attached to it and I have to say I don't know where it comes from So many psychics say well, I get my visions from the mother Mary or I get my visions from Nostradamus or whomever and I don't do that because I can safely and happily say I don't know but if I know 10% more about your life than you do then I'm helpful to you and That's all that's the that's my major claim now on my website It says about me visiting all these places around the world of energy and that is true I did visit lots of places and I hope to again But we don't know in this time frame whether we'll get a chance to go back to the crop circles in England or anything like that. Oh they'll they'll they'll decide this is over in a little while and then Eventually it'll have to get back to normal They don't want to play this game for too long, but they're certainly playing it pretty damn hard right now But I don't want to talk about all that, you know, you know what? I think is is kind of interesting also See there's so much embedded in that story that maybe you take for granted in that I love how humble you are about these psychic gifts And I think we all appreciate on some level that we all have this ability or these various abilities and That some people have them more but I think you know for you to do the Jimmy Fallon show and you know to go on late night and do the thing with Blake and Jimmy and To few people would number one have the presence the ability to just hold that place You know which is pretty remarkable, but then secondly to have it not go to their head You know, I mean you you do seem grounded in a way And I wonder how that what what that what that is in your background because I know a lot of your background You've always had this connection in your family, right to these kind of extended things. So you yeah, how are you? What is that worldview? I mean you kind of alluded to it in general terms there But what is your worldview about how this stuff does work? um My view is that I don't exactly know And what I wanted to say to you In terms of some of that is that when I say I don't believe something it also doesn't mean I I might believe something. I don't believe or not believe something. That's what I'm trying to get out here Um, I have my door open like when somebody I'm going to use somebody That you know of gary schwarz soul phone that whole deal exactly exactly, right? You know, I've met gary schwarz at At the sse up in new haven and seemed like a heck of a nice guy and I really liked him I haven't met his partner who's been on On buddha at the gas pump, which I I got to through you. So I love that I listen to your shows a lot of them and now I listen to a back at too. So that's really great I wouldn't have found out about that except for you, but getting back to gary schwarz soul phone Okay, do I believe it? No, do I not believe it? No, my jury is still out and um So that's the point of view that I come to a lot of this psychic stuff about I don't believe or disbelief. Something is going on and my Parusha, I mean I think Because you understand the science and you've really delved into it with all these a lot of the same great people that we both respect so much I think I understand what you're saying But I don't want to misinterpret you because like my take on Gary Schwartz's work and again have a lot of respect for the guy What he's gone through he stayed after it. He has this super high Academic profile and he's just willing to put that on the line and go in places after death communication Is not going to win you brownie points Within academia and he's pushed and he continues to push and just for folks who don't know The soul phone is an extension of what gary's been working on for a long time about after death communication And he's just taking it one step further. He said well, okay. I tell you what I can photon beams are Doable now. I mean, I don't know what you have to spend but it's not in the hundreds of thousands of dollars You can set up a little photon beam in your lab And he said why don't we set up a photon beam and see if this hypothesized disincarnated spirit Can adjust move affect the photon beam when we ask questions So we'll go to the extended realm the dead and we'll say Aunt Mary, is it you and Mary can move the salt move the photon beam or not Based on these. Yes. No questions and they claim and we don't have any reason to not to doubt this claim that they've compiled Amazed statistically just phenomenal data that this is true because True in the sense that they validate what they're getting back Being blinded from it with a sitter that would then say yes, you know She did lose a ring before you know, or whatever kind of questions you would validate when that we've seen that after death communication research And it is very doable. You know, it's not super tricky scientifically the photon beam is is interesting So here's here's what I think we're talking about. I want to make sure we're talking about the same thing when you say When you say you don't believe or you don't disbelieve I'll tell you what I've always said about that which again could fall into your category But I'm going to make sure I'm not making assumptions is I was saying it just sounds a little bit too much like, you know God needs our help, you know, like God's up there. He wants to talk to you But until he can get a good soul phone, you know, he just can't he just can't make the connection I go, I can't believe that's how it really works. So I don't question your data I just question maybe some of the assumptions you're making but then again, I'm glad you're out there Exploring it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um I agree a lot with what you say. Basically, I don't disagree with what you say But I think I'm coming at it from a different point of view I mean another part of it and the part of it that I think I'm coming at from Is that there are absolutely I feel like, you know, consciousness is fundamental as as as many of the Physicists have said and not only that but um, you know, I think that We are more than our physical body like Robert Monroe said these are kind of basic things that are my foundation Of things that I can say I quote unquote believe then other things come into the area of I think this could be the way Now the other possibility with all of these after death communications is that There are other Beings we could be you're sitting in your beautiful Skeptical lounge with the paintings behind you, which I love to ask you about we have to go back to that at another point in the interview but We're sitting in our living rooms. Perhaps I'm in mind and There could be a soup of Thousands if not millions of beings circulating around us. They may not be in the same time space Continuum they could be on another vibrational level. I'm talking science here and I don't mean strict science that it's they're really on On dimension 72 or something like that. I have no clue but What if these are just disincarnate entities? Some of which could be tulpas Some of which could be discarnate entities like which cause UFO sightings for instance, maybe But then there are physical traces. Oh my god. What do we do with that? You know, but that's a whole other's conversation But with people channeling the dead, are you really speaking to Aunt Mary? Or perhaps there is Somebody playing with you a little bit some being some entity Whether it be an egregor or a topa or something entirely separate from you And which brings me to something I was going to read for you And I hope you'll give me a second to read this for you because it's from a famous Greek thinker named Pythagoras And it says as long as man continues to be the ruthless Destroyer of lower living beings. He will never know health or peace For as long as men Massacre animals that they will kill each other Indeed he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love And so that brings me into another part about what I think about And I am not at all sure that human beings and I Admit to being ones slightly regrettably, but I admit to being one Human beings may not be the top of the food chain And perhaps we shouldn't disregard the consciousness of other things like trees and like animals of all sorts and even And this is taking it a little far, but not so much rocks The sun could be alive. I mean we both had on Oh, oh my gosh, my mind is failing me now. We both had on the famous Gentleman from Rupert's Rupert Sheldrake. We both have interviewed Rupert Sheldrake And he puts up a very good argument for the sun being alive And I don't you know anybody who wants to refer to that they could go to either a remote podcast or his work And they would find that I'm sure So you actually had a better dialogue with him on on that topic because I wasn't aware of that until I heard it on Your show I guess I had run across it, but I always kind of skipped over it and you brought that out. I think really nicely I had the great pleasure of meeting him in Manhattan for a lovely dinner, which A benefactor of mine helped me out with in fact the same lady who said who do you want to meet? And I said the Rupert Sheldrake She managed to do that for me, which is marvelous I can't thank her enough if she ever listens to this, which I don't think so, but I do thank her Well, I think uh, I think Sheldrake is terrific and I think You know, I met him, uh, I did meet him in in person at uh at eslan He was up there doing a presentation and I managed to get up there and And meet him but before that, you know, I just kind of contacted him more or less out of the blue and I always remember how Kind of welcoming he was how open he was and I think that that To me really speaks to so many times so many of the people that we find in this community who these frontier scientists They're not all super open, but so many of them are just seemed to be able to have that sense of people who were genuinely Trying to pursue this path and they seem to be willing to kind of help along that that way So I thought he is great same with Dean Raiden to you know giants in this field who are Just really naturally normally good human beings You know, you said so much there What's that? I've met Dean, but I haven't had him on the show. I think he's wonderful Yeah, you should definitely you should definitely that's a oh my gosh, and I didn't realize that I kind of assumed that you did because Especially the the spirit work that he's doing and trying to bring that to the lab right now Would be that'd be a natural So, yeah If if you want any help if if you have any problem making that connection Please let me know and I'll try and help the best I can so you said so much there I think I think your answer was actually Incredibly incredibly important to That whole line of inquiry with uh with the soul phone thing and where you took it was just that something that I think we all Intuitively kind of know but we don't want to grapple with because it's so hard is that The complexity of this extended consciousness realm whatever that means whatever that is is undoubtedly So complex that it is really beyond our Our ability to fully grasp it and I always say this but you know, isn't that what we hear from people who Enter fully enter that realm like through and after death experience and your death experience those kinds of things They come back and you know routinely they'll say I knew Everything I could no sooner bring a question to my consciousness than it was answered for me But gosh darn it. I can't remember it now. I can't it's like I can't bring it down to this Domain and and to me that's what you were capturing Beautifully with that answer which is like Hey, it could be any number of different things that we kind of think we know something about And each one would shade it very differently. So when we jump in there with Kind of a firm grasp that oh, this is what it must be. You must be talking to aunt mary. We really leave ourselves open for a lot of You know potential confusion creating more confusion for ourselves and other people It would seem to me from everything that I've cleaned That maybe that these entities that do seem to exist Come in a variety of forms in terms of some are for us Some are against us and some of us some of them are just playing with us like The trickster the joker Thank you, george hanson. Who's great guy Have you watched you george hanson? I know and we can have a talk about george hanson. I don't know I love the idea. I love the idea. Give me trickster. Give me the idea Let's leave behind some of his interpretations and some of the ways that he goes with it and everything becomes a trickster and You know, and then he sees it from a social political standpoint. It's like He's very private. I would say he's a private gentleman and um Well, I like that as I don't think that has anything to do with it. I think he's he's I think he's stretching the trickster thing a little bit. Yeah Anyway, anyway That's a little skeptico comment there. I don't know. It's a great guy. No, he's added. Hey another guy Completely got to respect the heck out of how he's changed the dialogue. I mean trickster Is is a cornerstone to all this that we didn't realize before and we all have to Acknowledge that's in play here. So no, I don't need to run him down. He did a great thing there in general and um I would say that the thought about the trickster if you think about it the concept of the trickster would be that type of Entity which is just playing with us As opposed to the one which which is us well or wishes us harm or is trying to bring us down See see he doesn't he doesn't say that see like if he said it within the context of what you were saying It would actually I could buy into it more if he said Look, I don't know what the heck's going out there in this extended realm But among all the different Classifications we could make there seems to be this element of it that doesn't Doesn't neatly fit into A benevolent angel kind of figure and doesn't fit into this demonic pull you into the darkness figure There seems to be this element of it that is Kind of playful kind of you know what we wouldn't see in this realm of kind of being the trickster and that Meme seems to pop up over and over again if you just said that and left it at that I'd be like wow, that's a great insight, but when you start seeing the trickster in politics and the trickster in You know Our culture and you know the trickster culture and we're moving into this age of it's like It's it's lost now now. It's like you know trying to Trying to pin it down too much. We're trying to use it over use it, but I There I go. So, you know kind of just Beat up the guy for no reason, you know good Hey, you know what let me let me return to another point you made because I want to emphasize this as well and then Then we can talk about something else But it's it's so obvious on one hand and on the other hand We never talk about this like you extend it just extend it to the animal domain You know like we talked about rupert rupert and his dogs that know when their owners would come in home and cats Right. He said cats too. He said I never talk about cats because You know, I'm stuck on the dog thing and that's the title of the book and all this But I got a ton of cats reports too, you know So, you know, or then you go into the ocean and these people have these amazing experiences with dolphins with whales with sharks You know, and they're clearly the data is overwhelming that there's some kind of relationship that they have with Consciousness the large and larger sense that we don't have any clue of and we're kind of tapped like you said We're kind of tapping into their abilities. We're tapping into that cat that goes sits on the on the lap of These people who are dying and you know, uh retirement homes and the cat I remember that in boston, right Tell us tell the story well, there was a cat um at a hospital in boston and the People who worked at the hospital Uh, I the cat was kind of in the hospice ward if i'm not mistaken I could be off on this a little bit, but um And the cat would go into the room of the person who was going to die next The cat just simply knew it so the the entire staff got with the program that the cat Knew who was going to die now. How did the cat know that? um, and then you get it that gets into the whole death doula thing. I don't I don't know if You know, you've but the Routinely now that's a service that a lot of hospice facilities provide And that is the death doula and that is someone to go and be with the person As they're transitioning because sometimes, you know, it's sad But some people don't have anyone in their family to be there and they're there in their room all alone and sometimes they feel All the we can only imagine what you feel when you know, no matter who you think you are when you actually enter Enter that zone of crossing over it's got and so people volunteer to go and just sit and be And sometimes those people you know, like I interviewed A psychic an amazing person who did some volunteer work Her name is Deborah diamond and she did volunteer work as a death doula and also as a psychic although she kind of left that A psychic medium I should say she kind of left that at the door But you can only imagine that works itself into the process of going and sitting with people as they're as they're dying So I kind of that's how I always read that story about the cat The cat is like the the cat death doula, you know of being there for that person in some way that we don't even understand Well, they some scientists have posited the idea that the person gives off a smell when they're close to oh, please I don't I don't I just have to put the skeptical skeptical Point there over but I have a wonderful a wonderful story for you about a death doula Person that I met At the Monroe Institute when I first went there. I went I went to the Monroe Institute for the first time When my parents had died I couldn't go before I was an only child They am an only child and I had to take care of my parents as they were dying in various different ways um Paperwork as well as providing Support of not financial but support emotional support So I got to go to the Monroe Institute after that was over and there I met a man named brother john brother john was um A catholic brother from the archdiocese of buffalo and he was Very wise person. I would have to say he exuded wisdom and he supported me a lot in that gateway Monroe Institute gateway program the first program that people go to And I found out about his background which was totally mind-blowing He was in Uganda during the massacre and he was imprisoned with a bunch of clerical people including Catholic priests Protestant ministers Catholic nuns and Protestant sort of nun people they're not always called nuns but sisters in in in Protestant various Protestant religions and He saw so much death More people died there than came home And when he came home to new york I guess the archbishop of new york or somebody of that ilk and I'm not a catholic and I'm not promoting Catholicism but Gave him like what he thought was a cushier job like he didn't have to And he he was sort of elevated to a higher position. He ran the buffalo Catholic Hospice and he saw so many people Leaving their bodies and saw like the mist That is described and helped a whole lot of people over the edge So he was a very very seminal and helpful person In my time of grief or not I don't know if I would call it grief, but just trying to deal with my new reality of not having any parents and so forth So that's fantastic. It's an interesting death doula story. I think It is and it also kind of transitions. It transitions I don't have a problem with that word. It transitions us into This topic that I really wanted to talk to you about regarding religion Because you know, you mentioned i'm working on this book Why evil matters and the premise of the book Is really pretty simple. It's like, you know, you mentioned the first book Why science is wrong about almost everything and that book was like hey science If you don't get science consciousness, right? I mean if you think consciousness is an illusion You really can't do science. You can't do anything because consciousness is there We have to measure it in all these experiments. We have to factor it in and we can Put an asterisk by our work and say I did the best I can but I wasn't Taking into account consciousness whether that's in the form of the observer effect or whatever, you know Okay, you get enough of that speech. You've heard it before probably skeptical but the premise of why evil matters is that If we're going to consider this extended realm, which you and I talk about with such ease, you know Oh, you have your conscious minute my minute experience, but then there's this other realm and there's spirits and there's We don't even know what they are like you're saying, you know, these these topa kind of thought creation things There's all these other things that seem to be showing up. I'm going to put a label on that and call that extended consciousness well, my point is We can't begin to talk about extended consciousness or our role in it or What that would mean in terms of this term we call spirituality With maybe a lens into that maybe a way to jump into that is to look at evil Because it seems to me we do such a terrible job I mean just just a terrible job with evil and I think religion is part of it, you know, because on one hand we have science that says well evil Heal doesn't exist because you know, you're a biological robot. I mean in this universe I couldn't you know, what are you even talking about? But then you have this other kind of subtle part of culture that we've talked about or and you've explored I want to talk about that kind of says, hey, yeah, there is evil and look at my netflix show about You know this let's look at the memphis III and you know, johnny depp and you know Satanism is kind of cool. Isn't it? You know, there's that kind of part and then The only other place we can go is to brother john. Is that his name? The guy was brother john and I don't remember his last name it He has very little about him in the public forum. I once found out I think he has a mildly german last name like air lift or something of that nature, but that's not it And well, he's probably he's probably a wonderful guy. He's probably incredibly spiritually enlightened based on what you're saying and the experiences and all that But geez he's in this catholic cult You know like one of the things I love about what you said for james listen one of your interviews and you go Okay, and this person is this religion and you're very nice. I like it new york, new jersey accent. So yeah, this person is In in this religion or you can call it a cult either one interchangeable It's like you just said that matter of factly and i'm like Absolutely interchangeably matter of factly just because brother john is in the catholic cult Doesn't mean that he's a bad guy doesn't mean that a million times more spiritually enlightened than I am He could be but until we understand the cultish elements I'll let that plane pass. Geez. That's a lot of them But until we until we understand the the cultish aspects of of those religions It's and tease them out, you know like I think you can be part of the the catholic community and not be Highly influenced by the cultish part of it. I think the same with christianity in general or any religion You can find a way through that that doesn't totally weigh you down into the cult But geez when you talk to some of those people they do I feel like they're not willing to own the fact that A lot of the ideas they have are just straight out of the cult Playbook and they don't make any sense rationally and they're not approaching it from a Scientific or I love the way you said I would put pre scientific way You know, you said hey, I approached this like with the Monroe Institute and I tried to do it in a scientific way I know it's not science per se, but try and do it in an organized systematic logical way that uses the your best means of discernment without jumping into this Well, that's because that's what the bible says kind of thing. I mean I don't which bible I would say which bible are you talking about? Is it jimmy john's bible of plain Spoken southern english or is it the king james version or is it? The a scene version or did we learn to speak aramaic somewhere along the line and really look at the stuff In which case we find out that the devil wasn't really a big player in the early writings So you've got that and then of course You've got richard smolie who you've quoted on your show with his quote about what What you know christian religion is and how does that really make sense that god is up there and sent Is son to be tortured and you know Through everybody into the lasting damnation because a woman ate an apple or whatever. I mean, it's it's kind of wild so yeah In terms of the catholic church There's a couple of interesting things about the catholic church. Like um, I think that a lot of medieval history They kept medieval history which otherwise would be gone However, it's probably Not I said tainted. That's too negative word. I would say it's pushed in a certain direction But at least we have some concept of what went on during medieval times Largely due to the record keeping of the catholic church. So I mean, I mean, hold on Let me just interject because you would be dead If at the during those times right a woman like you one because you're a woman Two because you would immediately be identified as practicing witchcraft And you would be killed and I think that you know, we can kind of all ha ha No, that is that tradition Well, I mean, I think I guess that's what I'm saying in terms of owner owning, you know, like because I'm gonna talk to I gotta I'm interviewing a guy who's a Super researcher love this guy. He's done some amazing work on crowley and on this Satanism that's in our culture in such a strange way and people don't even realize they're they're entering into this This dance with I don't know what it is But I just think there's there isn't the awareness there and I don't think Christians understand their culpability in it and their culpability in it is they've created such a mess with their crazy ideas That there's always going to be it's easy to to rile someone up and pushing back and saying Yeah, why would they why would they kill ferozia and then they will have some explanation for it? Why would they be against gay marriage is a great one, you know Well, why do you think you have why do you think your book has anything to say about what two adults do privately To express how they feel about how in the world do you think Your book has any has any opinion on that. It's it's just a bizarre Logic hole that we have a tendency to give a pass to and kind of say well Those are your religious beliefs and I guess I ought to respect your religious beliefs And I want to push past that a little bit and and that's what i'm attempting to do can we Talk about gay marriage for a second and you know, I mean gay marriage won't ruin your marriage. It's, you know It's gay marriage. It's between two same-sex people and that's just fine as far as I'm concerned I am certainly not against gay marriage, but I think that the Language here is one thing that is wrong With all of us because some people Look at the word marriage as a religious institution where other people look at it as a civil Why does that matter? Why does either one matter? It's a great deal. Let me explain if if everybody had a civil union who went to the Went and got a certificate if everyone had a civil union and left marriage To be something religious this would maybe would never have come up I you know, I don't care if it came up. I don't care if it came up that that to me takes it in the wrong direction Excuse me frijegge. I get working up, but it's like no. I'll put it right in your face. Call it religion What is your religion care? Why does your what kind of religion do you have? That you've made any sense of in your mind and i'm not saying you obviously That you could somehow justify that this is something you need to stick your nose in I don't respect it. I don't have to respect that religious belief I can challenge that religious belief in the court of public opinion and go that's rather ridiculous, isn't it? I I agree with you. I agree with you, but I don't personally Deal in religion I that's my point. That's my point. I guess I guess that's my point and one of the reasons I want to talk to you is that you've you've navigated that terrain But when we look at it, I love that quote, you know, it's like you call it a cult you call it religion. I don't care it's Just the semantics thing. They're the same thing you can't believe You can't have faith that your Wacky beliefs about gay marriage have any basis in some deeper spiritual truth Unless you've subjected yourself to some kind of Mind control religious social engineering project, which we're all subject to i'm not immune from that I'm sorry. I look back on the pictures of me Way back in the day wearing bell bottoms and you know wearing hair when I lived in dallas You know having some cobweb boots on like I was socially engineered I get it, you know and I grew up in the greek orthodox church I get it, you know And I went and kissed the priest hand to get a little piece of bread because that's what I was told to do I get it But until christians can come clean and go wow that really is That really is cultish that it really is trying to control my beliefs Then alex because the thing is we can talk about catholicism because it is a An institution that has certain amount of things that are known about it But there are a lot of people calling themselves christians and frankly it baffles me in terms of any idea about christianity not only that but um The basis of all this people don't people need to be led around there are people who are followers They mentally need some person Or persons to look up to and be a follower of now. I think that you and I Primarily we may have heroes But we are not anybody's followers. I am not a joiner You may not be a joiner either Um, I have people that I hold in high regard, but I don't follow them I think for myself or at least I try to And I do look at other people's ideas and I do adopt some ideas which seem to have Um hold weight for me, but I don't decide that they're true. I just find them to be interesting ideas Fair enough and Well, I kind of took that from your larger body of work And you know, whenever I kind of get off on these rants and people get all upset because they're Feel like their religious beliefs are being trampled on and that is exactly my intent I don't think religious beliefs deserve any kind of special Special Position in the court of public opinion If you have a wacky idea if you believe in flat earth Then you deserve and you want to come out and publicly talk about that you deserve to be Kind of Have those beliefs questioned and I I just think that In this little domain that I'm talking about now in terms of evil and I guess that was a long rant But let me bring it back to getting your opinion if I haven't totally Contaminated the possibility of getting an objective opinion But I'd like to explore the role that Religion has played in obscuring our ability to understand And Really what's going on in this thing that we might call evil? But I guess before I can even get there because that was my intent So the lead up to that would be You know, how do you even feel about evil because I know a lot of people are not Even comfortable with the term. I've had people straight up say I don't believe in evil. I don't believe Evil exists and when I'm working on I'm not trying to Suits Offer a definition of evil, which is where people always want to go. Well, do you think, you know the Do you think the drone strikes were more evil than then, you know satanic ritual abuse? And it's like, why would we want to play that game of you know, which is more evil? I I point to you know, I did an interview with With a wonderful woman. Her name is Anika Lucas And I really connected with her because she's a yogi like me and she has this amazing Yoga program for incarcerate incarcerated women in new york. She's really turned her life around because at six years old She was sold into a satanic ritual abuse cult in belgium And as horrifying as that is for people to imagine at six years old This is the belgium cult that was all over the news in the 90s. I mean if you want to go see, you know Just insane pictures of they actually have pictures of the kids Bound in cages. That's what they were doing And this is the cult that anika was sold into And almost died. I mean should have died other children died in that cult So I guess the reason I bring all that up is sometimes, you know People need to know it when I see it kind of Aspect of this. So you just talk about that case. They go, okay, I give up. Yeah, there is evil That's evil. No question. So once we ground ourselves in the fact But again, maybe you don't see that as evil But if there is evil and we're going to get to evil I think religion's getting in the way Well, largely I would agree with you. I would say the following I would say that there are different points of view as to What is evil in terms of I think it's evil to kill Elephants, for instance, I think that's horribly evil. I think big gay hunters are like the scourge of the universe They're very evil But I would say that it depends on the point of view of the person Doing the deed So that if you well, doesn't that contradict with what you just said? I mean if I'm if Imagine a hypothetical where I'm a starving or nearly starving You know hunter in Africa and the only means I have of supporting my family and my community Is harvesting ivory off of that elephant and I with all my power of an intention pray for the For the good life beyond this life for that elephant and I go down and take them down and take that tusk Am I doing evil? Um, I think that there are other ways to support One so that's not that's not the point. The point is that individual hunter. Are they are they perpetuating evil I cannot speak for that person I cannot speak for that person I find it to be an evil act, but I can't really speak for that person um I see because here's what I think evil is I can make it that people keep pushing me for the definition since doing this book And and here's the here's the definition. I kind of play around with when I'm really pushed to throw it out there If you're doing something That is intentionally Soul crushing to use a word that doesn't really have a meaning but we all know what it means If you're trying to intentionally Impede someone's spiritual progress at that fundamental level Then that's evil Everything else is in this gray area this huge gray area between the absolute Divine highest thing and that which is the lowest thing. That's my take on it doesn't sound like Wrong to me Alex. That doesn't sound like a wrong definition of it Um, and I would find it hard to define evil like in 10 handy words But I would say if you do something intentionally to hurt another being Um that you perceive as being alive Then that would be closer to my definition Of evil in terms of a human point of view Which then we get into the problem. Then we get into the problem of self-defense and you know, even the dolly llama says, you know If someone's coming and well, there's something else there that I would bring up as a question Rather than as a point as my point of view, but more as a question I would bring up the idea of this poor girl Uh miss lucas anica lucas who I couldn't listen to because I just couldn't bear the Thought of hearing about ritual sexual abuse. I couldn't listen to it on a certain level uh, but What I would say is if you or a person let's say a man of sufficient means Of physically to do something about it Was in a position To rescue this little girl and murder the person who was um Harming her Would you be more culpable if you didn't murder her him than if you did murder him? I furthermore have never believed people in my youth I would run against people who would say to me, you know, I could never do anything bad If my sainted mother was being murdered by a mob of angry People who wanted to rape her. I couldn't hurt them I don't believe them. I honestly don't believe them I say put yourself actually in that position or don't but I don't believe that I don't believe that that is the way Humans are wired now. We can't get away from the point that as humans We are animals specifically we're mammals and we have more in common with chimps and gorillas and orangutans then You know, then we don't have in common with them. We have a tremendous amount in common with them and they do use language and so forth so We can't get away from that animal spirit while we're incarnate In a physical body, but what happens when the chimp dies? Is the chimp going to go on to a higher consciousness? This is a question. This is not an answer What happens when et dies? That's the question I always like to throw out there. Does et have a life review? Is et a biological entity Is my answer? Yeah, well, I mean, I think again I would I would cast it back as you so aptly did in the if we accept the wide Variety of possible things that exist in the extended realm. I think the evidence is pretty overwhelming that et is real on some on some physical material level may also be real on this interdimensional level, but You know, I mean first you'd have to come back and ask really the tough questions about our reality You know and like the near-death experience people And a lot of people who've entered the extended realm what they'll tell you is this isn't real here Or you know, you're experiencing it. You're playing with it and you're calling it real But it's less than real and there's a greater reality, but it does seem to me and I Very open to hearing your interpretation of it but the you know I think Jacques Valet is kind of misunderstood and I interviewed him on skeptical and I tried to Pin him down on this, but it didn't take much to pin him down. He's open, but he says, yeah Sure, you want to talk about consciousness extended consciousness interdimensional. I'm there But I'm also down with the fact that there's a real physical presence that's interacting with people And we can't deny the fact that they're leaving behind, you know This trace evidence trace evidence and it's layered in this Way that we have no way of creating on this earth and all the rest that all points to Yeah, well, and then you you interviewed Diana Walsh Posolka too And you were a little bit too easy on her because you did that girl-to-girl thing, but that's all right I know you women got to stick together. I get it But she's found the same thing. So, you know space junk in the desert kind of thing. So it's like Yeah, I mean et is there's some et that's Biological and what is their relationship to consciousness and then Do they have a do they have a when they have their after-death experience? What's their life review like because life review, you know getting back to evil life review is a great window Into what we're talking about here Because when near-death experiencers come back and you True, but you you interviewed Gregory Shoshan to dr. Gregory Shoshan Yes, which is interesting because if people don't know, you know, he's done the cross cultural Cross-time look at near-death experiences and he doesn't come back and say gee, they all look just like Jeff Long's He kind of says something a little different than that But the big picture is kind of the the same and the thing about the life review Is that you? review There isn't some other one making a judgment on should you have killed that elephant? Or should you have not killed that elephant or should you have stopped that guy? From raping and then murdering that kid or not You will be the one who judges that and I think that changes that changes everything And I think there's a parallel to what we need to do here We don't need to make that judgment. We need to make that judgment as a society in terms of who we lock up But beyond that it's like Your karma bro Well, I still can't get away from the idea that we are incarnate as You know a biological thing Which is an animal and that we have certain instinctual Actions that we might take So there's that and I don't really have an answer for that and in terms of Diana Walsh Posulka I was very happy to get her on Chatted reality podcast, but we had a little bit of a history because While I was reading her book. I was in Rome And I had so many things happen Around the Vatican and around her and a book that I brought to read with me by accident and It became like all these synchronicities between the two of us That involved also a woman who is somewhat known in UFO circles named Brenda densler Who I know only On the internet and through groups and stuff, but I know her pretty well And she was involved with it and so there were all of these Like I was at the Vatican and The night after I left the Vatican I fell on my face And and and I hurt myself Really badly and it was like this whole everything was connected. It's it's impossible even to talk about it in 10 Paragraphs here, but what you try to try though because it's an amazing story And then when you talked with Dr. Posulka What she said was that you are not the only one who's had these Extraordinary experiences connected with this one Spirit being saint being so just recap for for folks for russia because it's it's amazing and again, you're not catholic You're not christian. So it's like you're not christian, right? You know, I don't I wish I was a Lutheran when I was a little girl. Okay um, I I'm probably easier on religious people than you are to an extent Simply because I realized that there were a lot of people who are not free thinkers and need to follow someone I don't need that crush. Oh condescending. How condescending of you to think that I kind of I kind of mean it but tell the story tell the story about the saint because again Posulka says this is my experience and I got tons of people to write in and tell me their accounts that exactly match yours But you're a public figure who's had experienced it Well, I would have to say that it started off with Michael grosso who I've had on a few times and It it also involves people from the Monroe Institute who went to Europe and saw nuns levitating Two women who I know one of whom is passed on uh, so Lived in Spain the woman lived in Spain. She was briefly the head of the Monroe Institute and she Uh was living in Spain at the time and she went to a convent For what reason I've forgotten and she brought with her this danish woman Who also was in the Monroe Institute somehow and the two of them saw this nun levitating in the distance and the danish woman She fell flat on her face. It was too much for her psyche to absorb. She fainted But um, the other woman, um, you know became some form of a believer and not in Catholicism but just in the extended realm to a greater extent and uh, Michael grosso of course wrote his book about the The john figure saint All of a sudden i'm losing the name of the book It's his benedicti month monk who was observed by a bunch of people in the monastery to Unregular On a regular basis levitate and just kind of walk outside of the the clock tower and people saw this And they wrote it down and they were eyewitnesses and it's like Yeah It's like if you deny it, it's like, I don't know on what basis you would deny, you know Just because it's like something they said they saw The church tried to suppress it basically And finally the evidence was overwhelming. And so they just let him they gave him a pass They tried to sort of keep him under wraps. They gave it a pass and he Eventually proceeded to sainthood. However, his female counterpart, which was the woman Mary of agrada, I believe who came uh, and who was seen by native americans having Trans transposed herself into the southwest desert and Became known to these native americans as the the blue lady the white lady or something like that She she came she gave teachings and it was totally non-physical and it was also provable and I believe diana was very much involved with her and When I went to Italy I was not going for the re I was just going for a vacation But it was to roam and I wanted to see a Pompeii so I took a A bus ride to Pompeii and walked around and saw those people under ash It was quite fascinating because I never realized that it was exactly that close to naples It's that close to naples. So that's just personal But in any case I had brought with me a book and the book that I brought with me Uh, just grabbed something off the shelf that I hadn't read. It was a a crime book and it turned out to be all about, um the religious uh Things that were going on from the point of view of mosad and uh very frightening stuff But it all fed into the diana walsh basalka story as well with the, um the catholic, um The observatory the astrophysics area and they went in there and everything and I'm saying Holy jeez. I read I got the diana walsh basalka book on my computer here And I'm reading that for a shattered reality podcast and then I brought this book for entertainment Not so much. It's all like totally interwoven and and I went to the to the badigan and Walked around and saw a lot of the stuff that she was referencing and it was all, you know, cool It was interesting and then I went to eat dinner at a at a place we eat with kind of situation And I fell down and I busted my lip wide open and it was really revolting and I had to go to uh to the emergency room and I was really laid up pretty bad and um And so on my way back after all these adventures in italy, um I was sitting on the airplane trying to meditate and I saw this woman sitting Like where there are no seats. It's it's not the bulkhead. It's where there's It's not the wing it might there's something that's there and it skips a couple of skips maybe two rows of seats towards the back of the airplane And um, I would meditate. No, I had it sort of like semi open-eyed meditation and I kept feeling this woman being there And every time I really looked it was she wasn't there, but she was there Unmistakably it wasn't just something that I was imagining I like really just fevered dreams because I was fully awake though. I was in but I guess alpha state of of brain waves And I just got the feeling it was good old Brenda densler who wrote once wrote a book about ufo's and Who I didn't know at the time had given diana walsh basoka A whole bunch of her library and her research I had no idea the two knew each other at all at all and I just thought oh my gosh, what's branda doing here and Why and and then when I spoke with diana, she said she was sure it was a saint mary of agrita Which I think what I think is actually not a saint, but mary of agrita Um, and I said, okay. I thought it was Brenda densler and then she comes out with well Yeah, I know Brenda densler too and I was like And I'm sure I'm missing parts of the story, but it was just It was mind bending Yeah, that's fascinating and I think you know the other part of that is that so then diana proceeds to tell you that she's had Many people report encounters with her book american cosmic, which is a fantastic book if anyone hasn't read it it's like a very important book to read and it's fantastically entertaining, but it's just important in terms of this invisible college thing in terms of the Kind of way secrets are are held around this topic of ufo's and then You know even touching on the the spiritual part of it too, right? But but she's had a number of people come forward and say they've had a connection with this saint through her Through her book she converted to Catholicism as you know, she was always a Spiritual child and she actually converted to Catholicism But what I find interesting, you know, as I said the history the things that are interesting about Catholicism from my point of view Is that also they're extremely interested in ufo's and you got to ask yourself? Why and they do maintain these observatories around the world So there's some what's your answer to that question to me I don't get that when you say that what's the answer that question because it would have to be A complete ultimate conspiracy that is that is that is not at all what they claim They don't claim to be interested in ufo's they claim to have a direct line to God and the son of the one and only son of the only begotten son of god That is their position and they kind of do this little dance of like, oh, you know set out They're like the cia, you know, we're like our government here. You know, they put out these kind of cryptid well I don't know. What would you think about that? They're not up front about about what they think or what they believe and they certainly don't let people In to see any of their secret documents Let me in to see their secret documents but I didn't ask on the other hand, but be that as it may I think That what we're talking about here is a smaller version Of what people talk about when they talk about the united states government It ain't just one thing so You know But from a spiritual standpoint, is that what we want? I don't understand why I don't understand that. I mean, I'm interested in spirituality But my understanding of spirituality is nudging towards this ultimate truth You know to put it in kind of new age-ish terms to get closer to the light that all loving all Encompassing light that near-death experiencers researchers talk about and experiencers talk about and to me it seems pretty Straightforward, you know, I there's a moral imperative. There seems to be a right and wrong We have discernment. I do seem to have discernment I do seem to know what's right and what's wrong and I can make that choice It's so freaking simple. Why do I need? a religion To connect with any of that and then it is incredibly condescending to say well You don't need it alex, but there's some stupid, you know follower people out there that need it. I don't buy that I think I think people are I think people would be better Could could be better served than how they are served by many religions Beyond catholicism and other religions. I think even those folks could be better served But I do think That some people don't question A consciousness like you do or like I do and for those people They need a place in their life to put that the compartmentalize And you know, am I saying people are stupid? Not so much as as I'm saying that people choose in their life to focus on different areas Now, um, you know, there's a guy out there who focuses on football. I have absolutely no interest in sports It just is totally uninteresting to me as a human being But there's that guy who focuses on football. He thinks about god. He kisses his christian medal to win the, um, the, um To get the pass or to make the touchdown or whatever the heck it is I don't know and and to me and you that may seem Ridiculous, but this is the way he has compartmentalized the spiritual aspect of his life. Now, could that man be better served? absolutely He's not being well served by by religions in general Which require a following which require more times than not that you follow some man wearing a dress and believe that Whatever he says is what you ought to follow I can't do that. You can't do that But I think that's because perhaps your area of interest and my area of interest are far different from his But could he be better served by a spiritual advisor? Absolutely Does that make any sense? Yeah, no, I think we've we've maybe pulled that as far as we can You know, we ought to move towards Kind of concluding this work. We've been at it for an hour and a half. It's been just a terrific chat. I love Wow, I didn't realize it was that long But it's it's good time flies when you're having fun as they say Absolutely So do we have do you have any other thoughts on What I should be considering In terms of why evil Matters why it's we we kind of really Took different points of view like on the ivory hunter That's exactly what I don't want to get into to me. That is That is far from the spiritual, you know, yeah, I don't I don't need to get further into that um I think that It's it's it's so hard because as people have said On your show, you can't study something with the something that you are studying And I think that's really the biggest problem in and what we're talking about um, if I were to write a book about evil I probably would look more at of a perspective of Not human like What is human and are humans on the top of this scale because I don't look at humans as the crown of creation and um I would kind of look at where what is the human part of it Versus the way other creatures Both incarnate and discarnate might see the concept And that's where I would stand That's an awesome perspective and it's one that that I hadn't fully considered And I love the way you put it out before, you know, because I kind of jumped on the animal thing But she also said what about the trees thing, you know, have you heard about that guy? It's a german researcher Who did the research you should have him on your show you guys would have a great time But he took it purely from a scientific biological standpoint Did you know this this work i'm talking about and he said the connection and the communication of these trees You know and how some I got the same thing from a woman I don't know the german guy, but I'd love to have his name But I was going to bring up a woman whose name of course. I I can't find right at at the moment Maybe it's here somewhere in my notes And these trees are actually he found these trees are actually like battling each other You know like this grove of trees is Trying to keep out the other trees or that trees aren't as happy, you know This anthropomorphizing a little bit, but he has the data to back it up these kind of trees don't like being alone You know, don't just go plant them alone in a under a true Slant post they don't like that and you know all these things that again approaching it from a scientific basis and it has the data to support What are you saying? I had a woman Whose name I don't have in front of me right at the moment, but uh, she may be canadian I think she is canadian and she talks about the same things and just as a final note I am sitting here and I have a cat looking out the window of of my My place here cat is looking out the window and he's looking at three squirrels Who come up on the chair next to the window to look at him make faces at him and taunt him Now he is a big mean Black cat. I mean he's he can be mean. He's not always mean But he's he wants to eat them up and they know it and they're just going You can't get us and they are absolutely Communicating you just know that they are absolutely communicating right now One of them is sitting right on the chair looking in the window and sticking his tongue out at the cat So, you know, I have a cat sitting over uh six feet over to me on the left and just a quick cat story because uh So we have a we've had a lot of foster dogs in our house I mean really my wife has driven that process, but we've had 50 or 60 foster dogs over the years But recently margo has decided enough on the dogs, you know, but she has always had this ability to kind of Tell which are the good dogs and which are the bad dogs You know, so if we're gonna have it, you know these foster dogs are They're kind of some rough characters sometimes, you know street dogs and stuff like that and she Just at the beginning will be like attacking one and that dog will turn out to be kind of a dangerous dog Bite other people that come in the house or you know snap at him and stuff like that And other dogs, you know, like we had this huge mastiff, you know 180 pounds And she's like, all right. He's okay, you know, if have that kind of ability, you know People do people do I feel like Having a lot of kinship here with your wife because I can walk down a strange street and stop and go And 10 cats will come out from and they'll all come up to me Because they know they just know that you love them and you want the best for them So I'm I'm all for cats and dogs and other creatures Though I've never really been able to get too intimate with insects. I do love lighting bumps Awesome well first it's been awesome connecting again and and talking and uh What a great opportunity You you it's been great speaking to you and sometimes you'll have to tell me about the main painting behind you The one in the middle Yes You know, I just you know, somebody asked me about it. Uh, uh, Jeffrey Martin asked me about it I don't know if it made it in the show. So it might be boring to people but Um, my wife and I were down in Mexico. We live in San Diego So Mexico is really close and we're down there years ago and you know, she's kind of Walking me through the streets, you know, doing the shopping thing and I'm just like dragging along and this guy comes out And he comes up to me and he goes, hey Come here. Come here. I want to show you something and he takes me all the way in the back of his shop I mean You know, you don't know if this stuff is staged or not, but it was fantastic. He goes You're looking for art. I want to show you something and he shows me this And a couple other carvings that this guy has done and he goes this guy is a Native guy who is way way out in the in the bush And he does these incredible carvings and I go down there and get a few of them every now and then And it's just amazing stuff and it is I mean, this is uh, there's like if you can see it There's this human being that's coming up out of the mud, you know and there's like these snakes in front of them and stuff like that and then the gnosis the the The wisdom is being blown into his Head like a cloud and then it's spinning into this Star and I mean some people season very occult things in there But I just thought it was cool. You know, I just thought it was a cool painting Or car Yes, I I never met the got the actual artist, but yeah, I mean he's tapping into some pretty deep stuff there, huh Well, thank you, Alex Thank you for ruse