 Hi, good afternoon, James. Okay. James? Yes, hi. How are you, sir? Very well, I just made it. I just ran from another meeting, so I was worried I was going to be late, but I seem to be okay. You are okay. Well, we'll go for a couple more minutes here. Thanks for joining us here for the festivities. I believe you're in Amsterdam, right? That is correct. Actually, I'm in a cute little city called Den Bosch, about 70 miles south of Amsterdam. So yeah, beautiful, you know, cobbled streets, clogs, the full tulip experience. There you go. Wow. We've got a travel log here also, in addition to blockchain. Okay, so James, let me ask you this question. You mentioned 70 miles, 70 kilometers south of Amsterdam. Yeah. So is that almost in France? I don't know. I mean, look, I live in Australia, so Holland's pretty small, and I've really enjoyed using the public transport. You can seem to hop on a train, and within an hour you're in, you know, the next city. So yeah, I think we're kind of near the border. Probably closer to Italy, right? With 70 kilometers. Good deal. Okay, so James, how we're going to work this is I'll kick off here. We're already recording or live streaming on YouTube right now. So I love everybody on YouTube. And then I'll, after the introduction, I'll turn it over to you, and you can show your charts, and we'll go, and then we'll rock and roll from there. We finish by the top of the hour here so everyone can run or walk, or however they want to change their position out there for the next call, meeting, etc. So we're going to go one more minute here, and then we'll start. And James, quick question for you while we're starting is, do you like questions along the way, or do you like to have questions at the end? Look, I don't mind. I mean, sometimes people say questions along the way interrupt the flow, but that's fine for me. I mean, if it's pertinent to the points, I'm happy to take it there and then. Beautiful, beautiful. Okay, that's good. And we'll keep it on task here if we get away from it. But generally, that's not people ask good questions along the way here. Okay. So why don't we get rock and roll in here? Hello, this is Tom Klein, along with Eric Valiquette and Andrea Frostonini. We're all co-chairs for the Hyperledger supply chain and trade finance special interest group. So we're glad that you were able to join us here either live or on a recording today to hear from James Veal from SAP slash Green Tokens and explain that in a little bit how that all works here. First off, any trust policies up on the screen right now, please don't share any competitive information. Don't collude on pricing and all these things we want to have a competitive environment, especially in blockchains, since things are so early right now out there. So I'm going to stop sharing and James, you can grab it and Eric, if you could make him host that would be good. Number two here while James is grabbing that for everybody, Dublin in September is going to be the next global forum in person. Thomas, I don't know if there's going to be a live stream option. I haven't heard that at all, but I know it's happening in person in Dublin in September. So you can look at that. I also heard the call for papers closed two weeks ago, two weeks ago, Friday or we can go Friday. Okay. And so now the group is we're going through all the submissions and seeing what we're actually going to be presenting. And Thomas, do you know if there's going to be a live stream option in September? Right now, it's not planned to have it yet, but we are looking into it and we will come back on that one. Okay, got you. So if you really want to go book your flights to Dublin in September, there and there's information on the website there. So with that, let's get into our speaker here, James. James from Australia, but James, as you may have heard at the beginning, James is hanging out in other lands and he can tell us about the best tulip he saw over the last few days when he was there. James, I don't James, I don't even know how I found out about green tokens, but I was doing some research and I was interested in, as far as I know, green tokens is based on quorum and we're a hyperledger group. But what I'm seeing out there is a lot of combined types of solutions where both Ethereum and hyperledger various forms and usually fabric are working together here. And so there's kind of two main reasons why one, our thoughts are a theme for this year around sustainability for this group to the interest in hyperledger is increasing around tokens. And James and his group is already, is already doing some work around that. So I thought it'd be valuable for us to hear what they're doing. And so we can use it in the various and sundry applications and ideas that we have out there. So with that, James, I'm going to turn it over to you. And any questions as James said that he'd be open to questions along the way, if you need something to help clarify there. And then we'll have the end, we'll have some time with whatever to ask some final questions. So that James, it's all yours. Super. Thanks very much, Tom. So good morning, I'm guessing to most of you over in the US, good afternoon for those of you in Europe. Yes, my name is Jamesville. I'm the co-founder along with Nitin Jane of green token by SAP. And before I start, people always ask us, you know, are you an independent company? Are you part of SAP? So yes, we're an SAP venture. SAP, like all big tech companies is always investing in external startups. We have a whole part of the business called SAP IO, which does that. About four or five years ago, they opened that up to anybody. So anybody in the company could pitch an idea. And that's something that Nitin and I did back in 2019. We got funded in 2020. So we worked like a startup within SAP. So we have venture funding, we have KPIs, you know, the money runs out, we have to ask for more. But it's great. So we have the best of both worlds. We're agile, we can build product quickly, respond to our customers. But we can also leverage that massive SAP customer base and support network that we have. So yeah, so that's a little bit. We are 100% SAP venture. Look, I probably got a presentation that's like 20, 30 minutes long. But normally, we have lots of questions. So I'm sure that we can get to the hour. But I want to start with this. Okay, so a little bit of history on my background. I'm a Brit, although I've lived in Australia for the last 12 years. My actual background was commodity trading. My first job out of uni was as a very, very junior analyst on the trading floor with BP in Broadgate Circle in London. And that was interesting because a lot of the world see raw materials or trade raw materials just in two kind of ways. They look at the quality, does this meet my specification and the price. So think about when you fill your car with gas. If you don't actually need it there and then you'll probably drive around looking for the gas station, which has your quality that the car takes to the lowest price. And that's how we treat raw materials. And what we do, we ignore a huge amount of the other interesting attributes that go with it. Is this a better greener option? Does this have child labor in it? Does this cause deforestation? There's all these other interesting facts that we can't readily attach to raw materials, well, I know as commodities. And another reason is that raw material supply chains tend to be in bulk. They tend to, we don't ship one shampoo carton worth of fuel. We ship a whole tanker. And to fill that tanker, we don't get it from one source. We get it from many sources. And if it's refined and unleaded fuel, then it's been refined. It's a refinery probably over a period of many days into storage. So there's this massive commingling problem in these raw materials. And if you want to say, well, I want something from this origin, but not from this, or I want something treated in this way, not from that, it's really hard to do. Now, traditionally, we've solved this with ERP systems. SAP ERP is a great, great obvious choice of that. But ERP systems see the world in batches. They work off of document movement, so goods receipts, commercial invoice, and each of those encapsulates some material, 100 tons of this, 100 tons of that at a certain price. And those become little batches. And batches are fine if you're upstream, fine if you're downstream. If I'm making 100 iPhones or 100 packs of spaghetti, I want to put the batch code on there, something goes wrong, I can do a recall. But when you're upstream with the raw materials, batches just don't work. I have an inventory. I build my inventory in a silo with 100 different batches. And that all mixes together, that product will mix together whatever it is, could be crude oil. What do I do when I actually start to use that inventory? How do I know which batch I'm taking it from? And really, you don't. You have to use convenient and counting rules like LIFO or FIFO to say, well, the last one that came in is the one I'm going to use first. And yet, you know, and I know that the material in there is completely co-mingled, some with good origins, some with bad origins. So that's a fairly lengthy intro to say that that's the problem we're trying to solve. We're trying to give really good traceability to raw materials so people are able to make informed decisions and also drive things like the adoption of sustainable practices. So I'm now going to talk to you how we solve that solution. And we have many use cases, but this is a use case that we're doing quite well with. And this is to do with circular plastics. So circular plastics, if you don't know, over 80% of the world's plastics end up in landfill or being burnt, which clearly isn't good because not only do we have to replace it with new plastic from crude oil, but there's associated environmental damage done with those practices. But there is a way to pretty much recycle any plastic providing it doesn't have chlorine within it. So any non-chloride plastic can be recycled through something called chemical recycling, which is a process where you basically take the plastic, the plastic bonds into the polymer, you chop those bonds up and you have something that looks a bit like soup. We call it synth oil, which looks like crude oil, and then you can put it through the oil refinery again and make new plastic. And you can do that countless times. So it's clearly a more environmental way we start to see plastic as plastic waste as resource and not a problem. But the problem with that or rather the advantage of the plastic it makes is identical to plastic made from crude oil. So the question was how can we go ahead and prove that this new circular plastic really is from waste? And this is where we introduced, you know, we had three sort of the innovations that drove GreenToken. And the first innovation very much is the token. And this is how we got rid of the batch. So the token replaces the batch or rather we make the batch tiny. So you can see there our token is a digital twin of the original raw material, the original source commodity, in this case plastic waste. And the token represents a tiny amount, in this case one gram of waste. So if I had a kilo of waste that would be that would be a thousand tokens. And the reason it's small is because a token can't be divided. So the token has to be the smallest unit of measure that you would trade at. And for this example, it was a gram. And look, we're not tied to the metric system. We did a POC with a soybean customer in the US in Iowa. And we had bushels and all sorts of wonderful units of measure there. So the first concept is that the token is a digital twin of the underlying physical. And wherever the physical moves down the supply chain, so the token has to move with it in concert. So in this example, I've got two sources of plastic waste. I've got plastic waste from a post-consumer origin. So this could be plastic waste from my trash can that I've collected and sorted. And I have plastic waste from another unknown location. And when I get to the mirth, the material recycling facility, these get commingled. So you can see now with the tokens, if I've got, I don't know, 100 tons of waste in my material recycling facility at any one time, I will have 100 tons of equivalent of tokens of different colors, you know, green showing there from collected post-consumer waste, gray showing there from some other source or indeed even virgin crude oil. So this is how I'm starting to assign an identity to the material that I want to track. So that's the first concept that we have. The second concept is mass balance. And all mass balance is really is an accounting principle that says within a system, within a closed system, within a given time period, an hour a day, a week, a month, whatever comes into my system, I can account for it coming out, including any conversions, any losses that might happen along the way. So in this, you can see I've got plastic waste coming in. I'm doing some sorting. I'm doing some chemical recycling to synth oil. I, you know, it's not 100%. I know I lose some materials to mass during that process. And I end up with a product. So it could be a monomer feedstock or a new polymer. And what green token does, it will say, well, you know, if I put in 2000 tons within the month, and I've come out with 1500 tons of usable new circular material, it'll show me, it'll attributes the amount from the various sources. And so that mass balance principle just lets you keep those equations in sync. So I can see there in my output material, the percentage in this case, I'm showing 65% from a post-consumer waste source and 35% from some other source. So tokens is the first principle we came up with, mass balance is the second to deal with these co-mingled materials. Now we come to the blockchain. So the idea here was, this is fine. Sorry, is that a question? Yeah, sure. Yeah. So basically you're just taking whatever ratio the inputs are, you're going to apply the same ratio when the output is what you're going to apply. Yeah. And you see there that we actually retire some tokens, you know, if it's not a perfect, and it never is. And these ratios, what we tend to do, we pre-define them, and then we swear them up, you know, so again, the bit like financial accounting, we make the best guess and then you might make a small correction error at the end of the accounting period. Okay, good. Thank you. And then we came to trust, you know, which is really our third innovation. So we have a token, we have mass balance, that's fine, that's accounting for the digital twin, the flow of our material. Now it happens that the downstream benefactor, the purchaser of the, in this case, the recycled circular plastic, really don't know who the waste collectors are, you know, and why would they, and they probably don't know who the chemical recycling plant is either. So how can they trust the data? How can they trust when we say this is from a post-consumer source that I collected at the curbside? How can we really prove that that is true? And this is where blockchain really plays. So having that ledger, having the ability to move the token along the ledger. And as you know, all blockchain is is really a fancy ledger. I can never delete a record from the blockchain. I can never make sequential rights, sequential updates to the ledger as the token flows along. And so at each of these axes, they have a wallet on the blockchain and as material moves down the chain, so we move the tokens from wallet to wallet. And that gives us some wonderful outcomes. The first one is at the downstream customer end, you know, to audit it to say why is this claim green is trivial. We just look at the unique token and we look for all the currencies of that on the blockchain and we get that complete history of why we're making that claim. We're also able to add multi-facts to the token. I'm not sure if it's being blocked out, but here we can see some interesting things, not only the quantity and the material name, but also the origin. We've done, you know, the actual latitude and longitude of where we picked up the material. We can add sequential CO2 footprint information. We can add any sort of certification that goes along with that. Things like no child labor, all sorts of interesting facts can be carried. But yeah, but this is the basis of how green token works and we prove this at scale. I pause there because this is when I normally get lots of questions. Let's pause here and Fernando had a question. First, he said thanks for the presentation, James. I wonder if you have any tag to link the physical plastic with the digital twin. So let's start with that one there and then we'll open it up for voice questions. No, and we delivery don't have a tag and I'll tell you for why. So we're mainly putting this over SAP ERP chains and the SAP ERP is always in that batch world. And the problem with that is I have one batch which is 100% recycled. The next batch has nothing within it. And again, as I mentioned before, the SAP system, unless it creates a new batch, but then you're doing that constantly because remember, these are constantly flowing supply chains. They're not like, I'll make 100 loads of bread and then I will stop. The ERP just doesn't make a new batch. So what it does, it does the FIFO or the life or whatever rule you want to do. The problem with that is you're not reflecting the true mix. I'll have one batch which would be completely recycled. The next won't have anything within it. Where we do square up is if you look at, again, back to the accounting principles, if you look at the start of the month and the end of the month, the inventories of tokens will always match the inventories of what you physically have within your system. Okay. Good. Fernando, you can either chime in with a voice question or in the chat there if you want to go a little bit further on that. Hopefully you can answer the question. Okay. Thank you very much, James. Could you hear me? Yes. Hi. Yes. Thank you very much for the presentation. It looks amazing. I can move him both as well in the use of blockchain in the supply chain. I'm just wondering how would you, I mean, when we are speaking about mass balance, usually, I mean, many of the systems, many of the certifications we have now in the market, I don't know, fair trade certification, for example, use this kind of mass balance approach. How we can make sure that plastic that we are tracking on the digital twin is not replaced for another kind of plastic in the physical flow? I mean, because we have to flow information flow that is quite clear on the blockchain, no, but the physical flow, how do you, how, how do you ensure the integrity of the system? Yeah, sure. So, and everything's there. So, firstly, we designed the system based off ISCC, so ISCC white papers, so we fully conform to their specification. Secondly, we are an accounting system. We're not the certifier. So we are, we are a system that says whatever information you put in, we'll make sure it flows out the other side and we will make sure there's no double counting. So we always work, you know, every time we deploy this, the companies we're working with are always being certified by an to external standards. So ISCC, Red certs, RSPO, there's any number of certifications that are out there. And those companies are already having to prove their supply chains through onerous paper trails across many supply chain partners. So I guess the answer to you is, no, that's not not us. We're not, we're not actually proving, you know, whether it really is true information or not. But we're certainly accounting for it as it flows through. And in our experience, the actors, the actors, they want this positive effects. One other consideration, ISCC, so let's say in a month I have 5000 tons going through my supply chain is perfect conversion so 5000 tons of waste gets me 5000 tons of products of which 1000 tons is certified sustainable. And I'm I've definitely recorded that I'm happy. So I made 1000 tons of green tokens. What I sell at the downstream ends really doesn't matter. It doesn't matter whether it comes from the sustainable source or the non sustainable source. The ISCC rules say that I can only sell 1000 as identified from a sustainable source. Once I've done that, I can't sell any more as green as sustainable. Now that is a feature of mass balance, whether you agree, it's it's valid or not. We can have a whole hour discussion within that. Our view is that it is valid because you're not doing any double counting. And our view is because you can measure it, you're now at a state where you can actually increase that 1000 to 2000s, identify the actors who are giving you the right material. So I hope that answers your question. I hope you don't feel cheated by the answer. But these are these are ISCC rules that we conform to. Yeah, absolutely answer my question. Thank you very much for the for the thanks. So I think what I'm hearing James, this is Tom, that on the origin there, there are certifiers that are saying, hey, this is good stuff that, you know, whether it's in your green, it's a green example or it's a it's a great example there and somebody certifying it and giving it the blessing and saying, yeah, it's good. So that you then assume so that's an effect your tag is through a third party certifier. Yes, correct. And and something we built in the system is that you see that if I say auditing is trivial, chain of custody block chain ledger, I mean, that's the real, that's the real win, you know, that ability to say, OK, you've actually a thousand of green. Show me all your months actions. I want to check that you haven't done a thousand one or thousand and and 20. We work with people who are doing these paper certificates and the number of times they get presented twice. You know, either because people trying to gain the system are often just human error. So, you know, by having this digitized by having this on the chain, which gives you that ledger certainty, you know, we know we've invented a better system. Is it perfect? No. Do people try and game it? No. But like any financial counting system, having the complete record means you're able to spot these errors a lot quicker. OK, good. Thank you. Eric and Tomas, I if you see or if you could go on these live stream and see if there's any questions there, I'd appreciate it. Because James, you're probably looking at the screen in the presentation error. So we'll keep feed them to you. Anybody else having a question immediately right now? Otherwise, we'll let James continue rolling on. OK, James, why don't you continue and Eric or Tomas, if you could come back with any questions from the live stream a little bit later, we'll pick them up then. Yeah, sure. So look, this general principle works for many, many different industries. So the deck I have here is sort of geared towards hydrocarbons, plastic recycling, chemical recycling. This one's pretty big in Europe. So in Europe, they still have diesel cars. The European spec called the N590 calls for 7%. Actually, I think it's more like 10 these days. Certainly when I traded it was around 7% had to be from a renewable source, so non-mineral crude oil source. And then there were some complexities around that. So you can make this stuff called fatty acid methyl ester from many different origins. So oil seeds, waste cooking oil, animal fats. So fine. If I'm doing it from oil seeds, I guess I want to do it from oil seeds that aren't grown on the recently deforested place. So some have some sort of sustainability. So here you can see it works in much the same way. We have our inputs there on the left hand side. Interesting one here as well. So Germany will not take biodiesel that's made from animal fats. So that might be something that they'd be very keen to have you certify that you aren't vegan biodiesel from animal fats. But the purpose of this really is to show you that it works for many different use cases. The one that I want to show you as well and this is quite close to my heart. So Australia is betting big on green hydrogen as kind of a transition energy store. You just have to think about what green hydrogen is. I mean, hydrogen doesn't really exist in, you know, we don't have hydrogen in the atmosphere like we do with oxygen. Now my colleague here is pinging me. But it's really useful to store renewable energy. So green hydrogen is hydrogen made from the electrolysis of water. So passing a strong DC current through water. If you do that with a renewable energy source like solar or wind power, then the gas that is made you can claim has energy stored in it when you burn it and has a very low carbon footprint. The way we normally make hydrogen is to do something called steam methane reforming is where you take natural gas and you basically strip off the carbon from the hydrocarbon chain that that carbon then goes either into the atmosphere or you have to do something clever and try and store it within the ground. The output of both those processes is hydrogen H2. And by looking at it, you can't tell whether it came from the good to low carbon source or the not so good. And hydrogen in itself is pretty useless unless you use a source. It's the lightest element. So to transport it, you need to compress it, which is energy intensive or what people are doing now is they convert it to liquid ammonia, which is a great higher density energy store which you can ship. So I'm personally working, I'll groups working with the Australian-German hydrogen alliance. Europe now is very keen to find replacements for Russia gas and also very keen to actually find lower carbon alternatives. And the beauty of hydrogen is you can pump it into the natural gas network pretty much as it is in fairly low percentages but book a carbon saving straight away. So we've deployed the system and it's the same thing. So we deliver the hydrogen gas, we deliver the tokens as well showing the origin and people are able to use those tokens to make lower carbon claims for their, primarily their energy generation business. So really the last two slides to show, yes, I showed you one example, but this is adaptable to many, many use cases. We did a big trial with Unilever. It's on our website, the joint press release, where we were showing that the palm oil they sourced in Indonesia was not from recently deforested areas. And again, we attributed different tokens at origin, depending on where the palm came from. Those tokens carried latitude and longitudes as well as any other certifications like RSPO and no deforestation certificates. And then in the end products, which were many ways removed from the supply chain, it was palm fruit crushed to palm oil, then refined to oleans and then put on a ship to Rotterdam to be mixed into various products. We could prove down to the bottle the origin of the palm and the fact that it wasn't from deforestation. So I just want to give you some idea of how we found these tokens, really flexible. We can alter the payload on the tokens, depending on whatever the application is. Yeah. And I don't have a huge much more to say. I have now some screenshots of what the product looks like. Oh, sorry, before I go there, there's something else that we are considering. So all of our customers talk about carbon. And as we know, there's a huge amount of carbon reporting requirements either in place or coming. We have the concept of scope one, two and three. I have strong views on that. But again, that's for a different discussion. But basically, scope one is my carbon emissions from my activities. Scope two tends to be the carbon from the power that I'm consuming. And scope three tends to be the carbon from when I transport my goods between different sites. My personal view is that I think that that's the convenience accounting framework for us. And what we've realized at Green Token is that at each of these stages, we could not only add that provenance information and origin information to the token. But as the token moves along the chain, we could start writing a little bit of, you know, put that gram token, a little bit of the total carbon footprint it's gained to that place. And then you can see here that this is a harvesting grain in Western Australia. And we ship it to a grain storage site. And we take it to a metro grain center where it's dried and it's mixed. And then we take it to a Western Australia port, and then we put it on a vessel. So our idea is that as the token moves along, representing that this is ISCC certified sustainable grain, we can also show whether there's a bit of carbon here from the truck movement. And then at the upcountry side, it gets, you know, it has a bit of carbon added to it a bit more when the train goes, a bit more when it's dried and blended at the grain center. So not only do you land it up with a carbon footprint per token, per gram, but also you have that fantastic audit history. Somebody says to you, well, why is it that number? Again, we look back, the tokens are on the chain to really understand how we've got to that number. And that evidence really isn't available today. A lot of the product footprint management tools just give you a number and all the calculations is hidden behind the scene. The big problem with carbon accounting too is, is, you know, what is my scope three carbon emissions becomes your scope one. So often, you know, numbers can be misled or double counted or not counted at all. So our feeling is that this is a much better approach. And this is something we're working to add to the product. Yeah. And really now, I've just got some, oh yeah, this is, this one's quite good. So this is just to underlie how the system works. So here we have five swim lanes, our supply chain actor, the physical material, the document from the ERP. There's our stylized blockchain with some wallets and we have some inventory numbers below. And I think you can probably guess what's coming. But as the physical material flows, we, we see, we see a document that represents the batch. So this could be a good receipts or a waybridge ticket. In this case, the, you know, the, the waste collectors delivered waste material to material recycling facility. And then this is where we run some business rules. So we've had 400 tons of waste arrived. Hey, it's all from post-consumer collections at the curbside. We know our customer who's a CPG customer is really interested in that because they want to buy plastic circular plastic material that comes from post-consumer waste because they probably put it into the supply chain. And here we go. So this is our concept. We add, you see here, the physical inventory would go up by 400 tons. But so's my token count gone up by the same amount. So this shows you how we move in, in concerts. The material recycling facilities got all the soft plastic out of there, sent it to a chemical recycler called Alpha again, a goods receipts ticket. Now this is where we're slightly different. So in this case, the chemical recycler says, Hey, I believe this is, you sold this to me basis post-consumer waste. I got 400 tons. I'm requesting 400 tons equivalent of tokens to come across. So that's done automatically in the green token clients. And then it's up to the upstream supply chain actor, the material recycling facility, to push the tokens across. And you saw them move. And the beauty of this is the tokens leave the mirth wallets and they can no longer be spent. So they've already been transferred across to guarantee that 400 tons. So this eliminates that double counting. And also, as you see, they've now moved from the mirth wallets, the chem recycling wallets. And in doing so, they're starting to build up what we call that chain of custody, that custody, that the history of where these tokens have been. And that keeps repeating. And then the tokens keep moving, requests we deliver. And the real end game there is the customer. The customer really is the best net benefactor of this information. Let's say it's a consumer product company who bought some recycled plastic for their packaging. And they can see that it came from the waste collection of Amsterdam. And it wasn't industrial waste collection. It was the recycling bins of the good people of Amsterdam. And they can make that claim then when they make new packaging materials. So I hope that little flow makes some sense. Hey, Tom, I can't see the clock. So I don't know how I'm doing for time. Let's see here. I got 39 after here. So that's about 40 minutes. So why don't we take a break here? Let's let you gather together, get your breath, and see what questions Eric or Tom asked. Anything from YouTube out there that you should bring up? Unfortunately, Tom, our live stream was having technical issues. So no live stream today, but we are recording and we will definitely share the recording out to the fact. I do see a couple of questions though in the chat box here. Okay, good. So let's see. We got Dennis Kaskoen. Dennis is from Netherlands, right? What is your reference in calculating the carbon footprints? Yeah. So again, we are the accounting system. We don't calculate it. We rely on third party systems to give us that number. SAP has many vendors have them, but we will record it. We can even record the methodology that has been used to calculate. Okay, good. Dennis, hopefully that answers the question there. Come back if there's more. I guess the question that I have for you, and then we'll get to Jennifer's question that just popped up, is these tokens. It sounds like it's a closed system. You're not viewing this as taking these tokens and turning it into some sort of external value in any way, shape, or form. It's really just an accounting mechanism, as you said, the beginning in order to transfer the information is really what it's turning out to be. Yeah. You could argue that asset backed, each token represents an underlying physical quantity that we want to attach facts to. And again, think of the token as a tiny, tiny batch, which means we can actually, rather than having to worry about LIFO, FIFO taking 100 tons of something because that's what the last batch was, I can take 100 tons of tokens. That might be a billion tokens, but we get down to that wonderful resolution that really reflects what's in inventory rather than the artificial convenience LIFO and FIFO view. Beautiful. Good. So as a question from Jennifer London, do you think that this could lead to some sort of exchange of green tokens between various materials producers? I guess that's a little bit of what I was kind of going on. Well, that's an interesting question. So our vision would be a green token network. So currently, when we deploy this, we're having to onboard supply chains. So we're going to, well, let's talk about Unilever. They had supply chain partners called Golden Agri who have palm mills in Indonesia. Other supply chain partners called Cinemas, CESPA, who have olean refining plants. So we had to make sure each of those had a green token client so that the tokens were generated and passed as the physical went down the stream. Now, wouldn't it be great if we had a network and everybody was on green tokens so that whatever materials were produced across the supply chain were offered with tokens? So I wouldn't have to onboard. I would just have to find whatever the product is and there are the tokens. And the tokens then become the guarantee for whatever facts, sustainable, no deforestation, child labor free. Yeah, quite some way away from there, but that would be our vision. Beautiful, beautiful. Well, there are questions we have out there from folks. Good question so far. I don't know if, James, you mentioned you had a few screenshots, maybe it would be worthwhile to show one or two because one of my questions is, can you do EI to get this information back and forth? This API sounds like you got a screen and maybe that's where you enter in all the information. So maybe you can comment on that too. Yeah, it's a good point. So yeah, we are back by SAP and at the downstream end of town, everyone has SAP ERP. So we've written in integrations. To be honest with you, there's not that many touch points. It's certainly inbound goods receipts. It's outbound delivery documents to be that commercially invoiced or some sort of ticket and it's certainly something to do with conversion. So if I'm processing a material, and we have the same. So again, with the Unilever Trial in the rainforest of Indonesia, they don't have SAP. They do have internet. I've been based in Asia now, APJ for 12 years and those Asian countries, they kind of skip the whole hard wire phone internet and went straight to radio phone, telephone mask. So you always get quite good coverage even in quite remote areas. You just need to put one mask in a village and you're done. So we moved 188,000 tons of palm through that trial with Unilever. All 188,000 tons was recorded at the mills we used. And we did it by taking their delivery tickets, which had all the information because they know who they're buying from and uploading those as kind of flat files into the system. So yeah, so we have a number of ways to get information in to reflect the supply chain. Yeah, and look, this is kind of these are some screenshots. It's an accounting system. I'm not going to hide the fact that it's not particularly sexy looking. It's showing you inventories and sustainable balances. This is showing me conventional feedstock inventory, recycled polyester inventory and a couple of products which are 25% and 50% renewable. I'm seeing a forward view of my inventory based on some time periods there. This one is much more interesting. So this is our chain of custody. It might be a little bit small. But what this is showing, I wonder if I can zoom in a bit, I can't, but what is showing on the right hand side is an end product, which is a recycled plastic bottle made of a bottle and a lid. And the actual green bar chart is showing you graphically the sustainable percentage. Now this chart is made up from the tokens. So the tokens associated with the end products in the bottle, we track all those back to see all the sources of origins. And there you can see on the far left hand side we have six collection points. So six sources of the recycled waste. Then we have some intermediary processes. So that would be the chemically recycling. Some of those are 100% sustainable material. Some are not. Then we have various processes to make the various different components of the bottle to end up with the end bottle. So if we're selling this bottle as a 50% from old plastic circular bottle and somebody says we'll prove it, this is exactly how we would show that information. And here it is again in the list form. And this is the kind of information that orders love. This is the information that previously you've had to go back through tons of delivery receipts and really try and figure out. Again, you're kind of doing allocations of material to say, well, I think this load went to this using your LIFO and FIFO rules. And we have that much finer view of it. So we just have to interrogate the tokens. This is another view we have. We call this a chain of custom map. Because we know the latitude and longitude locations of all the sources, I think this was for a soybean example. We knew where the farm co-ops were. We knew where the trucks moved from and to. So we could get it. We could start getting some graphical views of which farms were producing the certified sustainable goods. We did toy using this possibly to add in scope 3 carbon information. If you know the transport method, truck or train, and you know the distance, and you can start to guess that. But then we decided that there were much better tools out there to give us that kind of information. But these views are interesting. These views can actually show things like your food miles or your product miles. It could be you want to choose something which has a smaller, more local chain than one that comes from further afield. This is a further, yeah, this is probably, I should have shown this one before. This is a, again, we're showing many products on the right-hand side and the origins of those through the molder, through the plastic recycler, through all of the pickup points in that graphical view. This one we're showing as well because we're showing the cumulative CO2 equivalent numbers associated. And again, we're doing that by summing up the numbers, the carbon footprint added to the token as it moves along the supply chain. Yeah, we just, you can zoom into this of course and see finer detail. Yeah, and look, James has a question on the certifier, the certifier, are you going straight to the certifier? Are you taking, hey, the farm? We've contracted with certifier XYZ and they're telling you we use certifier XYZ and you're taking that information in. Yeah, I mean, look, again, we are the accounting. So if you think of a financial accounting system, I can cook the books in a company's financial accounting system, but I'll soon get found out. So we're the same. If what we can do, if there's a reference to, if ISCC or ISPO, one of the certifiers awards a sustainable certificate because that farm is certified sustainable, we will attach that certificate reference to the token and it can be inspected. And look, in the cases that we've worked with, people are very keen to keep their certifications, so they're not looking to game it. And also with green token, we can expose, if people are gaming it, we can expose that a lot quicker. So, yeah, I think we have to believe in the milk of human kindness occasionally. Yeah, good, good. Thanks. I think the final thing I'm going to show is this, although I got an idea this QR code isn't working, I would often ask you to shine your, I don't know, we can give it a go, just shine your phone at that QR code. It may work, it may not, it's on a test server, but we want to expose that information to, I don't know, is it working there, Tom? No. Yep, it looks like it's working, green token, product scan, blah, blah, blah, I would like to access the camera. Okay, okay. There we go. Yep, I got it. Product data, undefined, not found. Okay, fine. Okay, so this is one that we saw in our test server that it's not working, but if it was working, you would see this user app. So we know the real value of this. Okay, what do we want to do? We want to drive change. We want to expose the information that's in raw materials that it's being ignored today. So we want to work with our customers and allow them to put a QR code on their products, which shows the journey, you know, not only, you know, we can make the claim this is recycled, but let's actually go ahead and expose that in depth. So happily, I can send you a QR code afterwards that I know does work. I apologize. I've been brushing around today. I should have checked this prior. No worries, no worries. Yeah, send it along and we'll include it in our wiki as well as put it out on LinkedIn. But, you know, this becomes a great marketing tool. This is now enabling the consumers to make informed decisions. And we believe in the power of the consumer. So if more people only want to buy certified sustainable child labor free or no deforestation, and they have that proof, then, you know, we create that virtuous circle where people have a preference for this over other products. Yeah, so I think that's about what I wanted to say today, Tom. Happy to take some more questions. Beautiful. Let's open up for questions. We're at 53 after the hour or seven minutes before the top of the next hour here. So got probably got time for a couple questions. If they're out there, let's take a pause. Okay. Well, the good news is, folks, James, stuck around to the end here. So they like what you had to say here. Thank you very much for sharing what you're doing there with green token. Actually, I do have one other question. What ERC are you using for your tokens? Sorry, what's what what token format are you using? Is your owner using one of the ERC ones? We look, and you can probably sell because I had to say today that I'm not the technical guy. I'm pretty sure it's our own. But I will get our tech guys to inform me. Fair enough. Okay, fair enough. No worries. No, this is what we're looking for is more the business side of what you're trying to do here, how this all works. So good. Any questions out there before we close? Okay. Oh, wait, Elizabeth, the end user away here. We got end user. Can the end user get the tokens reimbursed? Sorry, I'm not an end user use those tokens to get reimbursed for having paid for the verifications because the product is getting closer to the true cost pricing by having each person along the way paying for a verification from a third party. These green tokens end up in the pocket of the end user who bought that bottle of drink. Now she wants to go and when she recycles it, she wants to get the money back from all of the verification that she paid for. Yeah, you know, it's a great observation. So our assertion is that having the tokens makes the product more attractive and therefore with the tracks of price premium. So yeah, we're just delivering that evidence. Now whether some companies want to be clever and offer some more incentives around that, that could be a pretty good idea. What is interesting, we're working with a company in Japan who are making sushi trays and they make rather a lot every day being the national lunchtime dish and they are collecting the trays. And the idea is each trays have some unique tokens represented by the QR code. It could be that we have that complete circular process and the trays go around multiple times. So if we get a tray with the QR code, there's challenges around how do you scan those millions of trays. But once that information is in there, we could start having a count. We could say this tray has been seen twice, been seen three times. So there's another interesting consumer incentive. Do you have the highest number of round trips on your sushi tray? But yeah, it's interesting. Elizabeth, I think it might be outside of our scope, but we have the evidence and possibly we could help in some sort of scheme. Yeah, thank you. So I'd like to see that automatically put into my lifetime comprehensive environmental impact calculator so that when she ratchets up all of her points for her lifetime, she gets these green tokens in her pocket to use to get some kind of compensation. Thank you. Yeah, and you're right. You observe correctly. The tokens never go away. They're unique and at the end of life, they go to archive and they're there to be queried at some point. Yeah, so that's a great idea. My personal wallet of all the tokens I've used in my entire life. Gosh. So she would have to use blockchain to purchase that drink, that bottled drink in order to get those tokens? Not necessarily. She'd have to have a wallet on our blockchain or perhaps we do blockchain to blockchain transfer, but you're right. Those tokens would have to end up in her wallet somehow. Good. Let's go to Fernando here with the last quick question before we wrap up. Fernando is here. Thanks. Thanks, Tom. Hello, James, again. Just wondering, you have mentioned a couple of proof of concepts. Do you have any project in production? I mean, in full production or just your proof of concepts? Yeah, no. It's a great question. We will go in full production this year. So we have spent, in two years, we've built a team of 20. We've built out the products. We tested it at scale. I'll be honest with you, what stopping production is the contract? So we're currently negotiating contracts with a number of partners. So we're very, very close. Okay. And just one more question. Sorry about that. I mean, even if you can disclose it, I'm not really sure. What is the business model behind this? Yeah. And look, that is a great question and I wish I had a really great simple answer for you. And this is one of the challenges we have, because I'll be honest with you, everybody wants this, but nobody can agree on the best way to pay for it. So again, we could have another hour discussion. I was in the office here in Denbosch discussing the very same. So we have a number of ideas around it. But yeah, I don't have a simple answer. Thank you. Exactly the same here in my side. Yeah. With our solution. Beautiful. Okay, James, thanks for all the questions from everybody out there. James, I assume you're available via email if there's other questions for the board here. We will take the recording and put it out there and Wiki and LinkedIn. Andrea is great with that and getting it out there. So look for that fairly shortly. And then maybe we'll even be able to get it out on YouTube. And we've been consistently get a few hundred people looking at the replays on YouTube. So that'll help us too here. So James, thanks again. Andrea or Eric, anything else we should share here? No, nothing for myself. I was late for the beginning. So thanks James for being with us today. And thanks everybody for joining us. It was a great pleasure to hear from you. No worries. There's lots of things. Yeah, there's lots of things using the chat here, James. So appreciate everything. And you can look at those and recording and it feel good. That's great. Thanks guys. We really enjoyed your presentation. See you.