 Okay, good morning. Thank you for joining in for our class today. We've been we've been looking at different kinds of counseling skills over the last couple of weeks and today we're going to come to a culmination of those skills. We're going to be looking at the very last part of it and progressing into other certain other topics also. I'd like to also welcome all the e-learning students that thank you for joining in. Thank you for ensuring that you'll have been on track with the program in itself, okay? So just a quick recap about what we did last week. We did about questioning skills in counseling. We spoke about the purpose of questioning skills. Why is it used? When is it used? What are some of the characteristics of its use? What are some good and effective questions? Kind of questions that we could use. We spoke about how we could use more of open-ended questions and we also looked at closed-ended questions. We looked at some examples. We did, I think, two roadplaces. One was with Divya and Jafina and one was with Divya and myself. So I hope that really helped to capture how we could work through counseling sessions with using some of these skills. Okay? So today we're going to focus on two skills, going to add in a last one as well, very little of it, but nevertheless it's important. So we finished with Attending Skills of Attending where we are building rapport. The next we looked at was Responding. How do we respond to the individual? How do we respond to the feeling of the person? How do we respond to the content? How do we respond to meaning? How do we respond to feeling and content? So we've got up to that. Now we're going to get into the skill of personalizing. Now the skill, just before I put up my slide, I thought, just give you a little brief outline of why this is important. Now if you remember, the meaning of personalizing is to help the counsellor take accountability, take responsibility for working through whatever issues or concerns that they have come with. So the process of personalizing, it actually provides a bridge between your responding skills and the action, the action of the individual. If you remember the three processes, the three stages of counselling is exploration, understanding and action, initiating action. So when we're looking at the skills that we have, what you are basically doing is your bridging. It becomes like a bridge from your respond and before they move into a place of action in working out something with the issue they've come with, that's where personalizing comes about. So simply put, this process makes sense of what the counsellor has explored in the responding phase and it leads to a clear understanding of the initiatives that is needed by the counsellor to change their behavior or to adapt to their circumstances or to quit whatever issues, whatever behaviors that they may have or transcend them. So whatever helps their growth, whatever helps their well-being, that's what you're doing. So I'm just going to repeat that. So the process of personalizing, what you're attempting to do is to help the counsellor get into a place of action from that place of exploration and understanding and this process is important for them to take initiative either to change whatever behavior that they may have been or to adapt to any kind of circumstances or to keep away or to quit them with understanding or to transcend them with peace. So the specifics of the goals that either lead to change or lead to adaptation, it's just not, we're not looking at good ideas that can be worth trying but they are derived from analyzing and helping the counsellor gather the information that is generated through that phase. So it is very critical that especially the exploratory phase has adequately considered all the pieces that are related to the person or anything that requires for them to work through their situation. So an exploration, a good comprehensive exploration actually paves the way for an effective working across this bridge that is from the responding into initiating where you are bringing about this personalizing. And on the reverse, inadequate exploration is likely to help them to retreat and maybe continue in that mode of blame shifting or throwing responsibility onto somebody, someone else. So basically the skill requires that we slowly move them from the place that they are into a place of actually internalizing and personalizing, taking responsibility for their problem so that they are ready to move into action. Let me just put up the slide and then we can then we could go accordingly. Please give me a moment. Okay, so we will get into further details about personalizing and figure out maybe through a case example how this can be worked out. So like we said, we often find that our counselors may continue the talk, that helpless talk about other people or third persons. It's their friends or their employers, their teachers or their spouses or their children. But by focusing upon others, what's happening is they are externalizing their experiences. That's what we said when they focus on others, they're externalizing their experiences. But what we're doing is we pass on to personalize the understanding onto the counseling themselves. So by focusing upon themselves, they begin to internalize their experiences. So internalizing is what makes them accountable for their experiences that they say that okay, I need to also look at it from my point of view. I need to understand the situation from the way that I can, I take responsibility for it. I take accountability for it. So personalizing assists the counseling in internalizing their experiences. So by focusing again upon themselves, that's where they internalize. So the personalizing, what is personalizing do, it builds upon that base we have established in our responding skills as I had said before, that is what we build towards, we're building on that base. And there again, here we see that the attempt is to help them understand where they are in relation with where they want to be or where they should or where they need to be. Okay, so that's what you're helping them see, that they are coming to a place of knowing, I know I'm here, I'm in A and from A I've got to move to B. Like for example, I know I am anxious or I'm depressed or I am angry or I am lazy or I am procrastinating or I am like this in the state of my relationship. So they get to understand that and you are helping them see from this place, where do you want to go? Which is the destiny that you want to take. So maybe it's from anxiety, it is to have peace. From a sense of sadness, it is to have joy. From a sense of a broken relationship is to have, is to have peace from maybe laziness, it is to coming into productivity. So what you're doing is helping them show where they ought to be, where they need to be from the place that they are. So when you are doing this, you're actually helping to personalize different things and this is what we're going to be looking at. You are helping them personalize their feeling, which means whatever they are feeling, they come to a place of accepting that this is part of where they are at and it's okay to experience this feeling because that's what helps them to move into the next part or to personalize the meaning of the issue or of the concern or to personalize the problem or to personalize the goal. Where is it that they want to go? So this is the effort that we take in moving them to that. I just wanted to also state we are in page 39 if y'all would like to follow through, we're at page 39. So in personalizing, what are we attempting to do is first and foremost, like I had spoken about, you cannot come to a place of personalizing until you have helped the councillor build a good base of understanding themselves in relation to their problem. Like for example, if let's say someone with a substance use comes to you, someone who's into addiction comes to you and they are continuously in the complaint of I don't think I would have been here if it were not for ABCD reasons or if it not for ABCD people. So the minute that they have got there, they're still in that place of externalizing their problem. So until and unless we have given, we have taken them through maybe times or sessions where they have understood what is it that makes them take refuge maybe in the substance or in their smoking, whatever the issue of addiction is, until and unless we have, we built that strong base of really understanding that, maybe these have been triggers, the father has been triggered, maybe the mother has been triggered, maybe the school has been a trigger. Nevertheless, there is something much more internal. So until we've explored that, until there has come a place of self-understanding of it, it doesn't make any meaning moving into personalizing because if we don't get there, they are still going, it is an indication for you as a councillor to know that they are still in that place of externalizing their problem. If they continue to say, no, I would stop drinking if my mother does this or if my spouse does this, I would stop drinking or I would stop getting into this habit when the fighting in my house stops, then I will be okay. And that kind of keeps the councillor away from the real situation that there are these, again, we looked at those five stages of five functions, those five, the physical, the emotional. So until we look there in that area to see what is it that creates this urge, this need, this dependence on a substance, we may not be able to move into this thing of personalizing. So it's extremely important to build that solid base of understanding with your councillor as you're going through sessions. So even if that takes a while for them to understand their contributions, understand their thinking process, understand their feeling processes, understanding those crucial needs, we spoke about those three needs, understanding that we are not doing justice, we're not helping them into moving into this level of personalizing because only till we have done that in a fair amount are we bringing them to a place of readiness to get into saying, okay, this is my problem, I'm going to own this. I know that I am in this situation because of this need of mine, because of this kind of a thought process of mine or this kind of a feeling that overwhelms me or this kind of critical needs that I have within that makes me feel that once I take this substance, I can move out that. So this is extremely important that personalizing can happen only when we build that solid base of understanding. So now as you are doing that and we've done this so often, we've done this so many times is to be able to respond. So going back to some of those skills is we need to continue to respond to their feeling, respond to their thoughts, respond to their meaning to the content. So just as an example here, I've just taken this example so that we could move it into that place of personalizing and the example given here is of a young student who feels she's not doing too well at school and this is what she says, things are not going so good for me in school, I just seem to be floundering. I fake it every day, but inside I'm really down because I'm not sure of what to do or where I want to go. So here maybe these are the first couple of sessions and this is where you continue to respond to the feeling. So what we picked up up until now is you get into this conversation of really expressing your understanding of what the person is feeling. So here she's not said anything about her response or about her feeling, she's not said anything over there. So that's where we hit at first or where we explore first, getting into moving away from the content into the more feeling level. So here it's something like okay, you feel sad, you feel discouraged, you feel disappointed at yourself about what's going on. So you're helping the young student to really explore what's going on and why is it going on that way, what are the thoughts that come in. So then that's an entire process like what we did at personalizing, sorry, at responding. So if you were to look at why, what is the reason that we need to get the feelings out in the open before we can actually get to the skills of helping them to personalize is one, it helps them to first and foremost to be aware of that there are feelings like this that are there. It helps them to be open about it, helps them to learn to deal with it that there are, yes, I feel like this and it's there, I can't deny this, I can't suppress it, it is there. So the more that you as a counselor helps to explore that feeling, the more likely they will be able to channel them constructively and once they're able to see, able to give words to their emotions, then they have more clarity in thinking as they have expressed their emotions, they begin to have a lot more clarity in what's going on. And this you must have noticed, you know, even as you're talking to people, as you have helped them to really emote and discuss what they're feeling, they have a lot more clarity, they may say, okay, now I think I understand what I should be doing because their feelings and their emotions have been tackled, they have been helped to do that, okay. So what are you doing is next you are, when you need to respond to their feeling and to the content. So in this case, what you're doing is you may, in Anita's case, you may say something like, you know, I see that you're feeling disappointed, I see you're feeling discouraged because things don't seem to be going well at school and you feel quite fake because of the way that you're responding. So I'm actually doing just that, I'm responding to the feeling and I'm responding to the content of her message or of what she has bought about, okay. So the example here is, the example that that's given is that you feel upset because you're struggling with your schoolwork. So I've just kind of briefly put it there just to help us know that we are still in that place of responding and it is leading up to that place of personalizing with your counseling, okay. Now once you're able to, once you've come to that point of getting there where you are responding to their feeling, responding to their content, then what you do is you are going to personalize that. You're going to make an understanding about how this entire situation makes them what it means to them, okay. So what are you doing here is you are bringing about certain implications and that's a question that's there is what you're trying to attempt to see what are the effects of the situation on the counseling. So as a result of her not being able to do well at school, being able to fake, I mean being in a place of not feeling genuine about her course, how is it affecting you? How does it bear a burden on you and that's what you are attempting to do in personalizing, bringing the entire context back to them, okay. So when you're first looking at the implications and the second thing that you're doing is you're looking at assumptions. So behind this situation or behind this behavior, there may be certain assumptions that the counseling is keeping. So there are certain personal beliefs that the counseling has that makes them feel the way about their situation. So you are what you're doing here is you're challenging or you're bringing, not challenging yet, you're bringing to the forefront all the assumptions that the counseling may have about her situation. So you're bringing to the forefront what are the beliefs, what are the assumptions, what are the perceptions, what are her thoughts, what are her ideas about this specific situation. So when you question it that way or when you bring about a certain meaning, when you begin to personalize that meaning that begins to take root. They begin to become more aware of the kind of beliefs or the thought process that really holds them in their situation. So let's continue to look at that example. So here when we are looking at personalizing the meaning, here is what the counselor says, says you feel upset because your future will be affected if you don't do well in college this year. So there is an implication here. The implication is actually bought about here. What does this imply for you is that you're worried because your future will be affected if you don't do well this year. So then that becomes like a right. So what you're attempting to help the counselor think about is yes, I have a part to play in whether my future will go well or not if I don't do well in college this year. And so that's what your statement may help to bring about for your counseling. So when you throw about this belief that there is an inability to deal and cope with this pressure, that's the belief she has. The inability to deal and cope with the pressure, that's the belief it's going to have an implication which is that her future will be affected. So when you're doing this, that's what you're bringing up, you're taking it up to me. Now once that is done, once you have bought about a sense of the belief that the person has, which maybe I sense that this is what you feel that you don't feel capable enough or that there is too much of pressure and as a result you can do it. Now that's the belief and that it is going to impact your future. So we've reached that. Now once that is there, you're helping them own the problem. You're helping them to personalize the problem. So what are you doing here? You're actually going to dive deeper in and to find out that what would be there about the counseling that could be contributing to this problem. What is there that may be contributing to this problem within the counseling and that is generally got by the statement like this. You feel sad because you cannot and you've actually bought about the entire problem over there. So when you have placed them in their problem, their contribution of the problem, they get to a better place of finding out what needs to be done. So here in personalizing, I'm sorry, in this example, Anita has given a second part of her problem. So she says, I'm the school basketball's teams captain and I spend two hours every evening in practice and I'm left with no time or energy to study. So she has bought about something here that is an added issue. So in our response to her issue, we could probably say this like for example, you feel upset because you cannot spend enough time studying or you seem to be concerned because of the pressures in your basketball team, you don't have enough time studying. So you've bought about this merging together of her own contribution to the problem, to the situation over here. So when you're doing that, it gets the person to bring about what should go about or what should happen next. Okay. And let's say she's added on another statement said, I should never have agreed to being the captain. So she's actually through the responding, she's actually coming up and saying, I shouldn't have done that because maybe I don't know probably how to manage my time. So here, as you are going on, you're beginning to personalize new things. You say, okay, you feel angry because you seem to have taken on much more than you can handle. You feel quite overwhelmed with all that you have to handle and you really wish that you had done it differently. So what you're doing is it's bringing the person back to the responsibility of, okay, I know maybe I've made a choice like this or I've done something like this. Now, again, it comes back to me having to figure out how I can work this out. And that's when you move to the next part to personalize their goal. Okay. What is it they want to want to do? They want to move from A to B. Okay. So this is where they begin to demonstrate that they are ready to move away from discussing all her problems, Anita's problems of being fake and not being able to study or the basketball thing, from discussing that into saying, okay, I want to figure out what I do need to do about it. And this is when they are more ready to respond to their problems the way we have been doing for them. So now they feel a lot more empowered because then you will find the statements will change. It will come up to, yeah, I think I feel quite overwhelmed because I don't have time to study and I have these many responsibilities. So the more that when you're building it up for them, you're helping them to see that this is what it is for them. Then they begin to own it. They say, yeah, I agree. This is how I feel. I feel quite overwhelmed. I feel there are too many things because I cannot maybe handle so many issues. So you've got them to a place of figuring out that they would like to rework their situation, rework where they are at. And that's where you begin to establish where the counselling was to where they want to be and what might contribute to resolving the problem. So you're basically what you're helping them do is they have understood, okay, this is how I'm feeling. And this is my problem. And this is why I have got myself in this place. And so you move it to personalizing the goal. So bringing about something like you feel dash because you cannot and you want to. So the problem is there and you are getting into the actual goal. So here there's another line that she continues to say. She says, my dream is to become a doctor and I've taken the science dream. I did poorly in my first term exams. I'm disappointed in myself for not studying enough. So if you were to personalize both the problem as well as the goal, what you would essentially get to do is you're merging those two together. You're bringing those two situations together. Like for example, you feel bad or you feel upset because you cannot put in the hours required and you want to be able to do well in your exams so you can get a seat in medical college. So this is what you're doing. You bring about the response or the feeling and you bring about the problem. You feel bad because you cannot but you want to be able to do that. So this is where again that you are helping to merge that and bring them to a place of understanding. So yeah, that's the example again. You feel bad because you cannot put in the hours required and you want to be able to make sure that you do well in your exams. Now, what are you doing over here? You're actually helping them to begin to get into your next stage of initiating that action. So from here, what are you doing is you're doing a check first. So throughout your process of personalizing, you are getting them to really have a feeling check about where they are with respect to their goals and here's where you say, Sanita says, yeah, I really want to do well in my exams and that kind of helps you see that there seems to be some urge or there seems to be some way to move forward. And so this is how, when she says, yes, I really want to do well, that's how when you begin to personalize that, you say, okay, you feel hopeful because you're going to figure out how you can do well in your exams. So it becomes a place where the counseling comes to a stage or to a platform where they begin to figure out what should I do now. Now, I've understood that I need to do well in my exams and I feel hopeful because I've understood that there has been this thought, I feel incapable, I know about my future, there are those implications that have been brought about. You bring them to a place of hope, bring them to a place of another feeling where they are able to figure out how to take this forward. So through this entire personalizing, you may need to go back and forth over up, over down, but what you're basically doing is first and foremost building that base where you're responding to the feeling and content, bringing them to a place where they personalize, internalize the meaning of that entire issue over them, internalize and personalize the problem. They say, okay, this is my problem and personalize their goals, this is okay, this is where I want to go. And that's a great place when you would like that the counseling is in. But they say, yeah, now I do see that I would like to work through some of these issues or work through that. So they've come to a stage of saying, okay, I'm ready. They've expressed to you that there is some bit of readiness that they find in wanting to move to the next stage. Okay, let me stop here. Are there any questions even as you're moving? Remember I said it's a bridge between your responding and into initiating action. So any thoughts, any questions, anything that you would like any support or help for? Excuse me. No questions? Yes, Xavier. Go ahead. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. So the question that I'm having is, so when you're dealing with the counseling, do you like backtrace from this end goal? Like, if you, at the end, you came to a conclusion, right, wherein this is the problem and this is the, this might be the goal that you can have. So in that case, so do you just, you know, backtrace from there and ask the questions and likewise? Sometimes it's hard to keep all these things in mind, right? So I just want to know, like, how do you usually go about? So depend, okay, now maybe each issue that the counseling brings up, there may be certain different goals that are there, right? Like, for example, this girl, this student, Anita, she knows she needs, or you come up to that point where she says, okay, my goal is to do well in my future so that I can get a seat in medical college. Now, that's the broader goal, okay? Now, that is, it's like an umbrella goal that you have. Nevertheless, as you're going to look into initiating action, that goal may need to be broken down into smaller parts, right? That, in order for her to move across that goal, there may be smaller, simpler goals that she may need to achieve. So through your counseling or through the process of this, you're giving her or you're helping her see that's the broader picture and keeping that focus there and moving it back into more simpler tasks. So let's say, she may say, okay, so in order to get there, I have to start small. I have to probably start with maybe organizing my time. Maybe that's the beginning of it, right? Or it may be putting in extra hours of study, right? Or something like that. So let's suppose those goals don't get met. Then you need to, again, you are bringing about the greater picture. Like, for example, I may say something like, you know, it's probably, you feel really worn down by the fact that these smaller steps are quite tedious that, you know, you have to really put in work every day. So she says, yeah, it is, I'm actually, I actually feel like I want to give up. So maybe you're saying, you're feeling, you feel upset or you feel you struggle because you're not able to follow through these goals. Nevertheless, you have a desire to do the big one. So remember, again, I bought back, personalize the smaller goal and looked at the larger part. So she says, yeah, I just, I don't think I can, I can work through this. This is the way that I feel. So going back, okay, so if that were the case, if there were the smaller steps you could do today, what would it be? So then I refocus back on the smaller goals when I may actually keep that bigger umbrella goal insight for her to keep working on, to keep motivating her, to encouraging her to move through that. So yes, I may trace it, trace it to the goal. I may trace it to smaller goals depending on how she's being able to progress into that. So yes, we continue to do that all because we've established it once. It may not mean that is forgotten, but that becomes something to catch. That becomes the aim, right? It is, it is to do well in college or it is to build that particular relationship. That becomes the broader aim. And so we have, we bring it back to smaller goals yet keeping the bigger goals in mind. Did that answer your question, Vivian? Yes, yes, yes, Ma'am. I believe the counselors have to be really optimistic. Yeah, yes. I mean, you have to, and this, I think this is something a trainer told me. He said, you know, if you see someone sitting in front of you for help, it's because they want to do something about their problem, right? Others they wouldn't be sitting in front of you, right? So that's why they're there. So the very fact that you have someone in front of you is a clear understanding that they want something out of this, even though it may be a very steep, steep journey. And that's why we keep that, that optimism, that hope alive for them, that, you know, we can manage it, we can do it and not go down to, so you need, you're a hope giver. You're someone who is going to continue to encourage them that something that they see as a goal is something that we can get, okay? Yes, yes. Thank you. Thank you. Any other thoughts? Any, any other responses? If not, we'll move into the next one. Okay. So from here, we're going to take a slight de-root because we're going to be adding something called as influencing skills. Now influencing skills basically helps you, our skills that helps you to influence, okay? Now this is something that you may use throughout the, throughout your sessions, you know, here and there, but they are important because it pushes your counseling towards change. It helps to promote that change. It helps to give them that nudge into moving ahead. So, so influencing skills come as a result of, of you wanting your counseling to move into, into the next level of, of help for them. Okay. So let me, let me just share, let me just share my slide. Okay. So what is, I think just by the word in itself, it's probably clear as to what it is. The word influence is generally basically means to, to have a power of producing some effect without really exerting too much of force without maybe an apparent exertion of force or a direct command or a direct exercising of your influence. Okay. It is a skill where you're taking, you're helping the counseling take that proactive step towards change. So it basically means to flow in. It's, it's flowing in. It is an, it is a, it is a way of producing a certain change or an effect without really pushing or without really bringing them to a place of too much of an exertion. Okay. So looking at these skills, influencing is part of all counseling. All right. And you would do that. Maybe look at the way that you may be talking to somebody. You may be in some way influencing them. Right. So even if sometimes just by your attending skills and your active listening to them and helping them to feel that they're being genuinely heard, can also influence their behavior. Okay. So influencing skills can take a more direct approach to the change that you want to see in your counseling. And what you're doing, why do you do that here is to add in alternatives for action that can bring about change that is quicker. So like I said, it's a catalyst, you know, like, like when you've lit a fire, you put in a little bit of kerosene, the fire goes up a bit more. And that's what you are hoping to do to, to accelerate the change, to promote the change quicker and to make, sometimes to make that change a little bit more permanent as well. So what's the, again, similarly, the purpose of it is to bring about change the way the counselor chooses to think or act. It's actually adding a fresh perspective and hope into their lives. Okay. So this is, when is it used? It's used when they are exploring alternative ways of thinking or behaving. And I find that these skills are a lot needed, especially when you're helping a counseling, when you're, when you're working with a counselor to challenge their thoughts or challenge their beliefs about something, right? That's when you're actually influencing them to think alternately or to behave differently. Like, for example, you have for in the case that we saw in Anita's case, we determined that Anita felt she was inadequate or she was, she was, she didn't have the ability or she was faking it, right? So when you bought this up in, into the forefront, you know, probably bringing up, okay, you know, this is how you feel, you feel extremely inadequate about the way that you are experiencing. So then maybe you've exploded and helped her see that those are thought processes, maybe asking her questions like, what kind of thoughts do you engage in when you feel like this? So she may say, yeah, I keep telling myself I'm useless, I keep telling myself I'm inadequate, I keep saying that I'm good for nothing. So you've got to that place. And now you're helping to explore, you're going to explore and help her look at alternative ways of thinking. So you want to challenge those thoughts. You want to get her to know that if she's able to have, if you're able to equip her to change the way she thinks, the way that her studies goes can go well. So that's what you are, you are trying to equip her to do. So and some of the techniques that we do is what we call as the, as influencing skills. Okay. So we will look at a few of the, there are many, but we will just take, take some examples of these influencing skills. Okay. So one of the most commonly used influencing skill is that of confrontation. Now, the skill of confrontation, it's, it's an, it's an important counseling skill to have. Okay. But there is always a right way and a wrong way of doing it. So what does confrontation do? Confrontation helps the counseling taste themselves realistically, especially when they interact maybe with other people or a certain situation. Okay. So here what you're doing is you are bringing them to a place of identifying what are some self-defeating patterns or techniques or thoughts or methods or manipulations that they are using for themselves. So you're making them aware that you're confronting them, you're bringing them to a place of awareness that this could this, these thought patterns or these self-defeating patterns affect the way that they are in their problem or in their solution, affect the way that they could get that solution. So it challenges them to integrate these aspects and then find ways to come out of it. When you look at stories or when you look at the counseling stories, you will see that they often have certain contradictions. Now, the contradiction will be between a thought and a feeling or there can be contradiction between a feeling and a behavior or any other combination like that. Like for example, they are, they are saying, I want to do MBBS or I want to do medical college but their thought process is I'll never get a seat in there or I'm not smart enough. So you see that there is a contradiction between where they want to go and what actually is happening and what happens is they also have very ambiguous feelings that they may be feeling too opposite feelings simultaneously. They feel like a lack of ability. So that brings them to a place of disappointment and they have hope because of what they're saying or what they want. So they are sometimes, they are unaware of this, they are unaware that they are moving into these polar opposite emotions because of what they're thinking and what they would like to see, maybe their behavior or their feeling or their thoughts. So those combinations can be very, very different. So in order to help counselors address this distress, it is essential that these inconsistencies are brought to their notice and brought to their understanding and their attention and it is to be addressed. Otherwise, they can get very stuck in that problem. Now when we do that, what can happen? Like when I said it, I said, there's a right way and a wrong way of doing. If when we do it the wrong way, it's easy for them to become very defensive. After all, we need to remember that when someone comes to you as a counselor, they somehow in their mind see you as a one up position. They see you as someone who knows everything but that's not the truth. They see you as the expert or they see that you have the greater power in that counseling relationship. But if counselors, if we aren't very careful of how we confront, they, a counselor could feel negatively judged, they could feel actually quite put down. So in other words, they can actually feel worse than they came. So what is a good confrontation? A good confrontation is gentle, is supportive and accurately reflects what your counseling has shared with you. The idea is to help the counseling explore their own conflict more deeply. So they need to see more deeply that there is a discrepancy between the way they are thinking about it and the way that they want something. So they explore that more deeply with the goal being the new idea or the plan that will benefit the counseling. For example, okay, that if I change my thought process, maybe I would be able to enjoy this goal or enjoy the fact that I could reach the goal. So the counselor expresses and when you're doing this, you express the genuine confusion to the counseling in a quest to completely understand the counseling. So framed, when you frame it this way, gently, supportively looking at the benefits of it, the counseling will feel more cared rather than feeling a sense of judgment of the issue. Let's just look at an example that will, that could probably help, help you understand this better. Okay, so here the counseling is saying, I just don't have time to exercise and I don't have the money to join a gym anyway, but I really want to lose weight and feel better. Okay, so there you find a discrepancy and she doesn't have time and she doesn't have money, but she wants to lose weight. Okay, so here's a wrong way of saying it. You're just making excuses then, you know what's good for you and you refuse to do it. So that's true. Okay, that's quite accurate, but it's not, it sounds very judgmental, but maybe a right way is on one hand you know exercise is good for you, but yet on the other hand, you seem to not want to do it. Could you explain this to me? Right, so you've actually bought this up to, for them to explore it deeply. Right, so that they may come up with some kind of an answer or some kind of an understanding of it. Now all because you've said this statement doesn't mean that you know all things are going to go right, it may actually need multiple ways of confronting to get them to a place of saying, you know there is a discrepancy here, I would like to settle that settle that in a way. Okay, all right. Okay, shall we, I think we are, we are time, we're way ahead of time, way beyond time or shall we stop for a break and then we'll come back. So it's 10.53 on my clock. We'll get back at 11. We'll see you soon.