 Fiz segera mengambil karbon dan faktor seperti RG dan agar kita menemui alam yang juga mengambil karbon dan apa yang ada di dalam sana apabila semasa reka yang akan datang dari sebuah alam dan juga dari jangkuk Jadi apabila saya lihat, panggilan itu menjadi sebuah perusahaan terbaik Jadi itu juga adalah kecewaan Sebenarnya, dalam pasal keperluan karbon Sebenarnya, sebuah pengalaman ini mempunyai selimanya. Ini mempunyai selimanya yang sangat menarik dengan perjalanan organik. Dalam keadaan Arty, artisiasa dan penyakit. Jadi, kita mempunyai selimanya yang lebih jauh dari sini. Jadi, ini adalah selimanya 3 rupee. Jadi, kita meletakkan selimanya. Di selimanya, orang-orang boleh berjalan selama-lamanya. Sebelumnya, dalam masa tersebut, orang-orang boleh berjalan selama-lamanya. Sebelumnya, orang-orang boleh berjalan selama-lamanya. Tapi, kita cuba memperkenalkan mereka. Jika anda menghilang selimanya, bahawa anda sebenarnya mempunyai selimanya. Orang-orang boleh berjalan selama-lamanya. Jadi, ia bermakna mereka boleh berjalan selama-lamanya. Jadi, mengenai ini, sebenarnya, rupee selimanya akan menarik selimanya. Jadi, tidak perlu menghilang selimanya dari selimanya. Sebenarnya. Jadi, ini bukan idea lain. Ini adalah perjalanan kita di Bandung, di sini. Ini adalah perjalanan kita. Setiap tahun, 100,000 buddhas datang dari Eropah. Dalam masa minggu, di Central Eropah. Jadi, ini adalah pulau satu, pulau dua. Jadi, di belakang itu, sebenarnya, barangnya. Biasanya di sini, di minus forest. Dan kemudian, dipercayakan. Jadi, kemudian, orang-orang boleh berjalan selama-lamanya. Orang-orang boleh berjalan selama-lamanya. Jadi, apa yang kita buat? Jadi, kita cuba buat sesuatu di belakang belakang. Dan kemudian, orang-orang juga mendukung idea kita. Dan orang-orang mempunyai idea untuk membuat lebih banyak perjalanan untuk mendukung keadaan. Jadi, yang terbaik. Jadi, ini adalah cara yang menarik. Di sini, ini adalah perjalanan. Di sini, di dalam perjalanan. Di sini, kita mengambil perjalanan. Dan sekarang, kita cuba menerimanya. Jadi, sekarang, orang-orang yang berjalan selama-lamanya membuat perjalanan kita. Jadi, mereka dapat mengambil perjalanan dan juga perjalanan. Sebelumnya, pada masa yang sama, kita mengambil perjalanan yang pasti bahawa mereka tidak dapat mengambil perjalanan dari belakang belakang. Selain itu, di depan perjalanan, kita mengambil perjalanan. Kita menggunakan teknologi yang sangat mudah. Kita menggunakan perjalanan. Ia bergurau. Kita mengambil perjalanan. Jadi, kita menggunakan perjalanan dan perjalanan yang dibuat oleh orang-orang. Dan kita mengambil perjalanan. Jadi, kita mengambil perjalanan di depan perjalanan. Jadi, sekarang, kita mengambil perjalanan. Ini hanya pada masa 1 tahun. Ia bergurau untuk menjadi orang-orang yang berjalan selama-lamanya. Dan kemudian, kita mengambil perjalanan. Mereka tidak dapat mengambil perjalanan oleh mereka sendiri. Perjalanan yang berjalan dari perjalanan telah dibuat oleh perjalanan selama-lamanya. Jadi, sekarang, kita mengambil perjalanan oleh perjalanan segera. Ini adalah perjalanan yang berjalanan oleh orang-orang yang berjalan selama-lamanya. Jadi, sekarang, bagaimana berkaitan dengan perjalanan yang berjalanan? Sebenarnya, ada beberapa perjalanan yang berjalanan. Tetapi, kita ingin mengambil perjalanan yang berjalanan oleh orang-orang yang berjalanan. Jadi, sebenarnya ASC mencari bahawa kita ingin berjalanan untuk diperjalanan ke Euraya. Mereka harus mengikuti perjalanan yang berjalanan. Mereka tidak memperkenalkan perkara baru. Mereka hanya meminta kita untuk memperkenalkan perjalanan yang berjalanan. Ini adalah perjalanan yang berjalanan. Jadi, ini adalah perjalanan ke Euraya. Jadi, kita perlu mengkumpul dengan perjalanan yang berjalanan oleh perjalanan kita di tahun 1999. Dan kita juga perlu mengkumpul dengan perjalanan yang berjalanan. Jadi, jika kita mengkumpul dengan itu, kita dapat melihat apa yang berlaku sebelum kita mulakan dalam perjalanan kita. Apakah area itu sepatutnya sepatutnya sepatutnya sepatutnya sepatutnya sepatutnya sepatutnya sepatutnya sepatutnya sepatutnya sepatutnya sepatutnya sepatutnya sepatutnya kita bekerja di Maha Kamdala di Kalimantan. Yang ini di Bonaik, di Sulawesi, yang ini di Jamba. Jadi, anda dapat melihat keadaan yang berjalanan. Sebenarnya, sepatutnya pada tahun 2000. Jadi, saya melihat keadaan 3 perjalanan yang berjalanan. Jadi, sebenarnya, kita dapat melihat mana yang lebih berlaku dalam perjalanan yang berlaku. Jadi, saya dapat menunjukkan. Dan di Bonaik, sebab perjalanan tersebut telah mempunyai 3 perjalanan pada tahun 2000. Sebenarnya, saya dapat melihat perjalanan yang berjalanan. Tetapi, di Maha Kamdala, saya dapat melihat keadaan yang berlaku. Kerana perjalanan dari Maha Kamdala berjalanan setiap tahun. Tetapi di Banoagi, saya dapat melihat keadaan yang berlaku keadaan yang berlaku. Ini sangat menarik. Yang terakhir. Pada projek ini, saya melihat keadaan yang berlaku. Lihat keadaan yang sama. Di tempat yang sama. Tapi ini adalah Maha Kamdala. Kita melihat keadaan yang sama. Lihat keadaan yang berlaku. Setelah 3 tahun kembali, kita melihat keadaan yang berlaku. Lihat keadaan yang berlaku 3 tahun lepas, kita melihat 18,712 keadaan yang berlaku selama 3 tahun. Tapi untuk melihat keadaan yang berlaku, hanya 1.5 tahun. Jika kita mempunyai keadaan yang berlaku, jika kita berlaku, keadaan yang berlaku lebih cepat daripada keadaan yang berlaku. Yang kedua adalah, Lihat untuk mencari mengingat keadaan yang berlaku di dorongan yang berlaku. Ia sangat tinggi. Mereka mencari alam-alam terdapat lebih daripada keadaan yang berlaku. Tapi jangan lupa, banyak dorongan yang berlaku di Indonesia adalah nomor yang berlaku oleh orang yang membezalkan Sulawesi. Bukan Sulawesi di Borong Talun, tapi juga di Mongkuk, di Bukit Riyadh. Kepala yang terdapat di bawah kawasan, sebenarnya di bawah kawasan, ia digunakan oleh pit. Jadi ia menjadi lagi, kemungkinan tarbon di kawasan ini, ia boleh menjadi lebih tinggi daripada yang diperlukan oleh sebuah kawasan ini. Kerana ia bergantung hanya bagaimana yang diperlukan pada pit yang berlaku di dalam kawasan itu. Saya rasa itu saja. Jadi ini adalah eksperimen kita. Kita bergerak selama 3 tahun, 2 tahun, 1 tahun. Ia sangat menarik untuk melihat bagaimana kawasan ini sebenarnya di bawah kawasan ini. Terima kasih. Ya, itu betul. Kerana dalam kawasan Delta, sebenarnya bukan terlalu banyak kawasan yang diperlukan. Hanya kamu. Tapi mereka, mari kita katakan, mempunyai sebuah kawasan yang sangat besar. Jadi mereka mempunyai kawasan setiap tahun. Jadi itu sebabnya kawasan itu menjadi kawasan ini. Tapi di Javan, mereka mempunyai kawasan kawasan ini. Mereka mengambil kawasan ini. Mereka mengambil kawasan ini. Terima kasih. Terima kasih. Mereka mengambil kawasan ini. Okey, terima kasih. Saya dari Javan. Saya mengambil kawasan ini. Mereka mengambil kawasan ini. Bagaimana kawasan ini? Itu sangat menarik untuk kawasan ini. Kerana dalam kawasan ini, kita hanya tahu kawasan ini. Saya tidak tahu kawasan ini. Saya tidak tahu kawasan ini. Terima kasih. Sebenarnya anda boleh cuba juga menggunakan kawasan ini. Untuk mengambil kawasan ini. Dalam kawasan kita, saya mengambil kawasan ini. Kerana kawasan ini akan mengambil kawasan ini. Pada masa yang sama, mereka dapat mengambil kawasan ini. Dan kawasan ini akan menjadi lebih baik. Lebih baik. Saya ada pertanyaan. Ya. Saya nama saya Sam Jogin. Saya ada pertanyaan untuk kawasan ini. Pertama, membuat kawasan yang terbaik untuk mengambil kawasan ini. Itu sangat berbeza untuk saya. Saya mahu beritahu lebih banyak kawasan yang terbaik untuk kawasan ini. Bagaimana anda beritahu? Kami mengambil kawasan yang terbaik untuk kawasan ini. Anda menggunakan kawasan ini. Dan kemudian, pertanyaan kedua adalah kawasan ini. Jika anda tahu kawasan ini mengambil kawasan ini. Jadi, ia seperti yang terbaik. Kami mahu mengambil kawasan ini. Jadi, anda memiliki teknik spesifik seperti pelajar yang ditemui, dan sebagainya, untuk membuat masalah ini. Dan kemudian, anda memperkenalkan komuniti untuk mengambil kawasan ini? Terima kasih. Saya ingin menerima yang terakhir. Ya, kami memperkenalkan komuniti. Kami memperkenalkan komuniti. Kami memperkenalkan komuniti. Kami memperkenalkan komuniti. Kami memperkenalkan komuniti. Kami memperkenalkan komuniti. Ini tiga kawasan yang berbeda. Mukronata, apikulata, dan stilosan. Tapi yang yang diperkenalkan diri di depan pesawat, ia adalah api sinia. Ia diperkenalkan diri sendiri. Tapi, bagaimana saja, bagaimana sediakan? Terima kasih. Pertanyaan kedua adalah Jack Rana, yang adalah koordinator original dari M.C.N di Hanoi. Jack akan teruskan menghubungkannya dari M.C.N di Vietnam. Mereka menghubungkannya dari M.C.N di Hanoi. Tapi ia akan menghubungkan beberapa masalah tentang produksi organik. Terima kasih. Saya akan bercakap apa yang akan saya melihat hari ini. Ia adalah projek projek sebelum perjalanan yang dibuat oleh jenis perjalanan yang diperkenalkan dari M.C.N dan S&P di M.C.N. Selanjutnya. Dalam M.C.N, M.C.N di M.C.N, ada 7% semua dari M.C.N. Dan dalam sana, Provence Kiamau mempunyai 50% semua dari M.C.N. dan dalam keadaan itu, kita dapat lihat bahawa ada satu perjalanan di M.C.N yang mempunyai 25% dari M.C.N. Jadi jika anda berminat di M.C.N. ini adalah tempat untuknya. Ini seperti dari sekitar 500 km. Melayu di M.C.N. adalah lembaga yang panas. Ini adalah perjalanan yang diperkenalkan di M.C.N. yang terkenal di M.C.N. Ketikaan yang paling panas di dalam Park National M.C.N. dan sekitar sebuah zon kos 1 km jauh yang diperkenalkan perjalanan di M.C.N. Perjalanan kita di M.C.N. adalah perjalanan di M.C.N. di M.C.N. adalah sekitar 12,500 hektar sekitar 2,500 perjalanan di M.C.N. Ini seperti di atas dan kita panggilnya di Indonesia, mereka panggilnya Silvo Fisheries memperkenalkan mangrove perjalanan di M.C.N. tetapi mungkin perjalanan paling akur adalah mangrove polikultur kerana bukan hanya perjalanan. Ia adalah perjalanan yang terkenal di M.C.N. perjalanan, perjalanan dan perjalanan yang terkenal di M.C.N. yang kita panggil terlebih daripada M.C.N. Itulah peny swear sebuah produksi yang sangat rendah 300 kg per hektar per tahun kek perjalanan yang besar kek perjalanan industrial 10,000 kg, 10 kg per hektar per hektar per tahun. Tentu-tentu tetapi rendah yang rendah sangat rendah saya kata tidak membuat kemukul tidak ada antapata dan sebab sistem ini adalah sistem yang aman, tetap jauh dan berdiri, ada peluang kawasan dan sebab kawasan yang tinggi dan kecepatan kesehatan kesehatan kesehatan kesehatan jadi menurut kemukul di mana dia tidak diperperkaitan daripada EMS dan kemukul yang lain It's also the diverse dimension, it's not just trim, it's also the crab, the fish, the oysters and so forth. And the study by GIZ looked at sort of the risk adjusted net income per hectare per year and it concludes that these kinds of farms are very profitable, over $2,000 per hectare per year in profit compared to more intensive shrimp farms between just over $1,000. So it's economically viable. The project, as I said, it's a four-year project, German funded. We're starting off working with 740 farmers in Union Forest unit. And these farmers are working with a company called Mingfu, which is the world's largest shrimp exporter. They exported almost $500 million of shrimp last year, most of the US hand area, not so much to Europe. And Mingfu was signed in five-year contracts with all 740 farmers offering a 10% price premium. And critically, they agreed to purchase all sides because of shrimp, because it's basically a natural system due to shrimp from a small, this sort of size, sort of small lobsters, and then they have especially high price. So that provides a strong financial incentive. We're using organic agriculture standard, produced by Natureland. That's a German certification body, I guess, like FSC, but it specializes in organic products and shrimp and coffee and so forth. Now, this requires a 50% mangrove cover per nasional raw. The auditor is IMO, these two to the market ecology. The first audit has taken place, or I should say pre-audit, and the full audit will take place in the next few months on those 740 farmers. And this integration of mangrove conservation and high-value shrimp production is contributing to the sort of provincial vision, if you like, of an organic coast. It's not only good for the farmers, but it's also very good in terms of tracking sediment to come off-set sea-level rise to stop production of so-called. I now want to sort of shift gears a little bit to talk about pangs for environmental services because Vietnam has been a leader in Asia on a PES. Between 1993 and 2010, there were two programs, 327661, basically, they involved issuing household contracts that pay a certain amount of money at the end of the year, per hectare per year, to protect and patrol, at least in theory. Payments, 2, 3, 4, 5, per hectare per year. In 2006, a USCID project implemented by Winrock with IUCN, Asia Regional Pilot Westerk Conservation Program piloted a PES system in the Netherlands province, in southern Vietnam. And as a result of that, there was a government decision to sort of formalize the pilot. And then in 2010, based on the pilot results that the PES model, if you like, was replicating nationally. And to create 1999 included, it was really focusing on teresital forests, pangs for forestry environmental services. And it was specified payments for hydropower and water utilities downstream. So there's some big dams, there's some big parking plots. What you're named is 100km downstream. And these basically, they pay a certain fee per kilowatt hour generated and cubic metres of water bottled and sold. In 2012, IUCN and GISA were asked to work on a sort of a on a next generation of legislation that pertainer PES specifically for agriculture, as opposed to teresital forests. And we, before, or as part of this process, we looked at the history and given you a very brief overview of PES experience in Vietnam. And this was published in a report led by C4, I was one of six co-authors that takes what I would call a a critical look of PES implementation in Vietnam. Next. What we concluded was there were some pretty fundamental weaknesses. And there were basically three weaknesses in particular that we had to address. One was low willingness to pay. The buyers, the dams, the bottling plants are all state-owned companies that basically just instructed to pay. But they're under no obligation to make a profit. They basically perform a social as well as an economic function. So for them, it was just another tax. They just added it onto the fee. But there was no particular interest or understanding in the environmental benefits of PES implementation. However, private companies, particularly hydropower plants are reluctant because they're locked into existing contracts. PES in Vietnam is very low. Large is very low. So even a small additional payment has been quite fiercely resisted. We're also being concerned about low compliance. My dream is basically self-reporting. People are asking, so how do you think you did this? Well, I guess it's all the answers. And ultimately, there's obviously a conflict of interest and this is, I would argue, starting to undermine the credibility of the system. It's part of the dream by the fact that government sees these payments for households essentially as a welfare payment. They've got no interest in distinguishing or discriminating payments based on performance. They just want to get money with every household. Partly just because it's socialist, egalitarian, ethically, partly because it just makes the scope for conflict, competition is lower. And thirdly, new market opportunities, cassava, increasing biofuels from China has led to a booming cassava production. Now, no one selected four or five years ago. And it is not just cassava. There are other products, market prices have fluctuated, but broadly increasing. So the opportunity for us to conservation, simply paying people not to cut down trees. Sooner or later, it's going to come out in four. There's just not enough money to pay enough people to make a difference. So, we're looking at a certain, particularly for the members, we're looking at organic certification, like as a mechanism to transform the economy to make manual of conservation pay. And in doing so, address these three weaknesses. One is willingness to pay. In the case of the certified organic or production, in a sense, the international consumer is the ultimate buyer. Being fluid, like the process is intermediate buyer. They're the ones who sign the contracts and pay and the market agree the purchase agreement. And this company, it's a private company, it's identified organically as a key market opportunity. We think it's not just a financial issue. We also believe it's all very likely to be a sort of a branding market creation and so reputational So we rate willingness to pay that's high. Compliance. There's a great deal of M&E. As far as management more, there's basically a local company unit which is responsible for the law enforcement within the forest management unit. There's an annual audit by the Institute of Market Ecology. There's a terminal control system finance finding food in place. There are farm groups. We've split up 740 farms 27 different farm groups and that enables a degree of peer pressure because if one farmer one farmer is not compliant with the 50% manual standard they all fail. It's a very strong incentive to get everyone to cooperate and to comply. And we've also done to confirm what the government tells us about manuals. Lastly, permanence. In a way, we're not looking at the trees. We're not coming at this from a forestry perspective. We're coming at this from a livelihood perspective and economic perspective. We're looking at how we change the production to enable mangrove conservation rather than how much it costs to protect a tree. And by doing so we think there's a high degree of permanence. There are significant upfront costs of training and GIS working by toilet kids. But incremental costs are modest. Once you're certified it's a strong incentive to stay safe. And almost that. That's it. Thank you. Yes. I just have a quick question for you. The taktai but the other kinds of shrimp and the other fighting products are sold locally or just consumed. In a way, the shrimp is the crew if you like, the ex-income profit. The fish and crabs, the oysters and the cockles. They're sort of the day-to-day bread button. They keep the family going. So it's very diverse. I can't remember the exact breakdown but when I think about half of it is on the shrimp and half of it is on the non shrimp products. And we're not a specialist but essentially it's an occupy different strata within the water column. These funds are about 1 meter, 1 meter 20 deep. And they've got crabs and oysters which occupy different issues. Yes. My name is Rizal from TNC, The Nature Conservancy. My question is about the shrimp market. You mentioned that there's a 10% from the price. And you take all size. Isn't taking all size or harvesting all size in the shrimp is a little bit against the sustainability of harvesting. So you cannot keep the little one for the younger generation to harvest for the next time. What does it mean of all size? Well, it's entirely voluntary. It's up to farmer what size he wants to sell. But there's an exponential decline in price. It's not a linear decline as you get smaller and smaller. So there's a strong incentive not to sell small things. So there's a minimum measurement that you cannot sell. The way they do it is pieces by kilograms. Thank you very much. Okay, good afternoon. Thank you. Responding. Let me start with a disclaimer. I am not a red plus expert. I am not a carbon finance expert. I am certainly not a mangrove expert. I am a community forester. So I come at this from a very different perspective. And I am very happy to see Peg in the audience here from Markets for Change. I really enjoyed your plenary discussion this morning. And in particular, I thought what was interesting was the comment about the demand, the market demand that's out there. And in particular, I comment this from a perspective that there is a demand for mangrove conservation. There is a demand for carbon finance to help with mangrove conservation. And how do we go about doing this? So Jake just presented the findings of a study. I'm actually going to be presenting a future study that will start hopefully next month. This is a regional collaboration between mangroves for the future, FAO, and the USAID project that I run. Lowering mission to name this for us. Just click three times. Overview. We're going to talk about activities under various makinotones, where this carbon financing may come from. And then in particular, the project itself, that we're looking at various opportunities for communities to get income for mangrove protection and conservation. So we've heard so far that there's an increasing interest in marketing carbon for us. But now let's talk about the demand in particular for marketing carbon from mangrove forests. Similar to Jake's presentation, there are other environmental services that are emerging and we need to recognize that those payment for forest ecosystem services are evolving in different parts of the region. We need to take advantage of those opportunities. As my colleague from Forest Service will talk about, go back one slide, please. Sorry. There are large amounts of carbon. This depends on the variation within the actual mangrove system. But we've noticed already that there's lots of high sequestration rates in mangrove forests in the region. And a high proportion of that carbon is actually below ground and will be released once those mangroves are converted. For possible financing mechanism we have red plus and part of the plus is deforestation. We can also look at the increased use of harvesting wood products and the substitution involved with using wood products that has a substitution for fossil fuel and other sources. Next slide. I will be talking a bit about red plus the voluntary market. And then last but not least, CSR, which I think has the most potential for mangrove conservation and protection. So we've learned from the emission trading system in Europe and in Australia and now with the cap and trade system in California. There are opportunities to look at soil carbon and above ground carbon and emission trading systems. The Kyoto regime has been extended for another 8 years but it doesn't include the forest based carbon stocks. CVM also includes soil carbon for small projects. And as we've learned in the process of going through these projects, they're extremely expensive. So there's an estimate here of $160,000 plus $14,000 35 years for verification. This is way too high for a mangrove conservation project to endure. There's also a problem with scale for these projects to be commercially viable. They need to be quite large. And so with coastal mangrove systems you're talking about them pulling various projects together into one consolidated project or landscape, if you will. Next slide. So we have also the voluntary carbon market and this would include red plus in agriculture and off the loose sector. Soil carbon can indeed be included in these small projects and they will fetch a higher price, you can call them a charismatic carbon I've heard the word Birkenstock carbon. There's different types of carbon out there and there's different ways of the voluntary market to get a higher price and of course if you look at the California system you may actually fetch a bigger price in that part of the world than you will in this part of the world. There's also new methodologies that are emerging. There's a P3 wedding methodology that just came out and this ban allow us to take advantage of hydrological cycle changes. This is an example of fish ponds and there may be opportunities looking at the hydrologic cycle and what we can do to incentivize more projects through the BCS mechanism. Next slide. Last but not least, these are the considerations that I wanted to walk you through. The value of these carbon credits may not exceed $200 per hectare per year even under the best conditions but they need at least 1,000 hectares to grade even for the project cost. The startup cost. This is the project development document that consultants charge a lot of money to produce. That's the startup cost and the value also may not produce enough credits when you take into consideration the buffer that you would need specifically looking at systems that are under a high risk. The cost of setting up these projects is quite high then if you look at the institutional requirements for doing this type of conservation, we also recognize that we need local institutions, good governance, open and transparent processes and that also needs to be considered when designing these projects. Last but not least we need the policy and legislative environment for ownership of these carbon credits so that these projects can actually be liable and communities can actually benefit from these projects. So that's a very important last point about the governance structures and the legislative and policy environment for markets to really function properly. So under the existing capital trading systems most of them don't allow for forest carbon credits when your market does allow for some overseas credits in Red Plus but it's capped at a very small amount and most of those are coming from Mexico at this time. Red projects in threatened and degraded mangrove areas with deep soils may actually generate the most carbon credits and projects as we've heard just now with abandoned fish farms may make a lot of sense. So the companies that are out there still need to be refined and tested to make sure that the voluntary carbon market can tap into this mangrove conservation projects but we still don't really understand the mechanisms because there aren't a whole lot of projects to learn from. That's one of the main things that we wanted to start this project is to start seeing lessons learned from various income generation opportunities and looking at the carbon benefits affiliated with that. So now let me move on to corporate support, sure. Thank you. Just talked about the compliance market the voluntary market the area that we see as emerging right now for mangrove conservation projects is really CSR and like I said at the beginning we can see mangrove conservation and rehabilitation as being a quote-unquote sexy project. It's got a lot of attributes that corporations really like they get to take pictures of themselves with their communities, planting trees it's very easy to do. So it's got a lot of popularity here in Southeast Asian context and it's got a lot of direct corporate responsibility opportunities for communities and companies to really see immediate benefits. Next slide. So the project that we're about to undertake is over the next 18 months is a collaboration between the MFF, FAO and the USA Youth Project. Keep going. It's focused on income generation from community coastal management countries, Thailand, Vietnam and Pakistan. The project objective is to develop a low-cost mechanism and enable these mangrove conservation carbon emission reduction projects to really provision the funding of two local communities for both livelihood diversification resource enhancement and placement of these coastal protection and conservation. The project rationale I already talked about most of these carbon prices are low we may not see an increase in the short term. The voluntary market is quite expensive to jump into. We absolutely need direct market mechanisms to go right to these income generation opportunities and find ways to incentivize alternative livelihoods around mangrove conservation and protection. The project approach is to work closely with existing projects and look at developing a mechanism and seek broader institutional support to increase the robustness and build confidence around these models and then to replicate those models through regional platforms and regional partnerships. Thanks. There's a number of different activities. The first one is really focused on already knowledge management around what we do know and what we don't know so a gap analysis and assessment with experts on what is available and where is the funding going to be available from and to develop a model that really assesses the amount of carbon storage and sequestration available in different mangrove systems based on latitude that would allow us to look at bypassing the whole project development cycle. Next. We then want to look at targeting certain communities that will test this approach engage them, support them develop these mechanisms as I mentioned look at the cost involved and the financing options that will be developing through this project and how to get lessons learned from this project to regional partners for replication. So that's the project in a nutshell. It will be keeping off hopefully next month. Jeremy can actually talk more about the nuts and bolts of how the project will run as he was the project designer and during his days at FAO he's now a part of the LEAF teams and I'm lucky to have him and any questions that you may have I'll transfer to him depending on the nature of the question. Thank you. Back to Bruce, straight on to a very related presentation by Richard McKenzie who is from the US Forest Service and he's going to tell us how to measure mangrove carbon and then of course we'll open up the session for invited questions and comments. Thank you. So I came here from and usually you greet everyone and then you return to greeting back to me. Aloha mai kakou. Alright, thanks. So I'm going to stand up here so I can point at this screen and I'd like to move around. Mangroves and key lands have become priorities in climate change, mitigation and adaptation programs as we've heard in some of the talks today. This is largely due to the fact that it could potentially be permanently stored and this graph here is a result of a collaboration between C4 the US Forest Service where they quantify carbon pools and mangroves and key lands swamps across the end of the Pacific and you can see that carbon storage is significantly higher in mangroves and key lands swamps compared to other temperate and tropical forest which is largely due to the storage below ground. So these gratiated areas represent soils or peats within the mangroves and the key land swamps. In fact, the values of these carbon stocks can be 8 to 10 times greater than what we see in upland forests. Now, I believe David talked about the high sequestration rates of these ecosystems carbon stocks is due to that sequestration but also due to the fact that these sediments these muds that store these carbon these carbon stocks are essentially flooded sediments so the times come in and when they leave a lot of the sediments still retains that water and so you get these waterlogged conditions there's not a lot of oxygen and so the bacteria that would normally decompose these sediments would do a good job and so we can essentially permanently store or bury these carbon pools within these ecosystems and so that's why they have become such an important component in discussions of mitigation and adaptation. Now, unfortunately many countries around the world including those in Southeast Asia lack sufficient information to include wetlands and carbon stocks from wetlands at the national according to the United Nations or to develop conservation products to reduce greenhouse gas emissions through main road conservation and so next slide Forest Service again working with C4 and supported in large through the United States Agency for International Development for USAID came up with a sustainable wetlands adaptation and mitigation program to provide training to a lot of these nations around the world and so the overall objective is to provide management agencies policy makers and scientists with credible information needed to make sound decisions relating to the role of tropical wetlands and climate change mitigation and adaptation next slide and the main goals of the project are one, to quantify greenhouse gas emissions from wetlands to quantify carbon stocks in tropical forests of wetlands of the world and associated land uses three, develop ecosystem modeling tools and remote sensing technology to scale that carbon up from the plot to the land scale so we could get the most effective measures of those carbon stocks four, quantify the role that tropical wetlands play in climate change adaptation and mitigation and then finally probably most importantly is develop capacity building and outreach activities by working with governments and scientists from countries not only to help them quantify these carbon stocks and greenhouse gas imitaries but to develop projects to address how land use change how management can influence those stocks so that's the swamp program so to date I believe swamp has been up and running the official swamp has been up and running for about two years the whole project has been about a four year program Daniel can correct me if I'm wrong but to date swamp has been or is being used in 22 different countries 10 of those are in in southeast Asia there should be a circle right now in Cambodia because we just got back from Cambodia two days ago so it's a very effective protocol that addresses a lot of the the the statements made by IPCC in terms of carbon reporting and for those of you that are interested in learning more about it, C4 actually has a publication by Boone Coffin and Dan Donato that goes through the protocol in a little more detail I could literally give you a week long lecture on how to do the training or how to do the protocol but they said I don't have 10 minutes so there's something else I want to talk about but I encourage you to look into that document in a nutshell what we do is we set up several plots and within each plot we have clustered subplots either in a line or in this cross fashion and this allows us we've got 5 subplots in a quarter hectare plot excuse me 0.25 hectare plot within each subplot we've made various measurements that are identified in the protocol and this allows us to quantify 4 of the 5 major carbon pools that have been identified by the IPCC for carbon reporting this includes carbon stored in trees carbon stored in non-tree vegetation carbon stored in down in dead body debris and carbon stored below ground in soil we usually don't focus on the forest floor of the leaf litter because most of the leaves are flushed out with the tides pulled down into the sediments by crabs and essentially become part of the soil so you should have a very small component of the carbon pools and so that's the swamp project so again it's a protocol that you can use to quantify carbon stocks to look at change over time if you want to develop a carbon project this is an excellent method to use for that or if you're reporting out at the national level it helps you determine your greenhouse gas emissions from land use, from converted mangroves and intact mangroves I'd like to change gears now and talk to you about another project that has been a collaboration between C4 and the US Forest Service that impacts the sea level rise on mangrove forests so it's probably no surprise that everyone here that sea level is rising it's actually nearly doubled since 1990 and it's predicted to increase by up to 2 meters by 2100 depending on which climate change scenario you look at it and so sea level rise is real it's predicted to be the greatest threat the greatest climate change threat and we should expect to see loss of mangroves as they drown from high water levels or shift in vegetation now that being said on a positive side of things mangroves are very dynamic ecosystems and when we talked about developing adaptation mechanisms for mangroves they've already developed an adaptation to sea level rise they've been around for millions of years and they survived climate change and sea level rise in the past and using two mechanisms the first that we heard about earlier is the sedimentation that occurs in the mangroves so you have rivers and the ocean delivering sediments into the mangrove forests as well as that large amount of the low ground reproduction so as those roots grow and the sediments accumulate the mangrove forests can rise at similar rates of sea level and we can see that here nicely from Daniel O'Longhi where he plotted on the Y axis sedimentation rate on the X axis means sea level rise and these are several mangrove forests where he was able to get sedimentation rate information this dash line here is a one to one relationship between sediment rate and sea level rise so any dots above that line are mangroves that are keeping up with or exceeding the current rate of sea level rise and this is kind of an optimistic message that appears that many of the mangroves that he included in this graph are currently keeping up with the current rate of sea level rise now what does this mean for the future we don't know increased rates of sea level rise they may not be able to keep up with the second mechanism that allows mangroves to keep up with sea level rise is their ability not only to rise up but to move inland from a paper in the 90s where they were looking at mangrove distribution in 1994 or excuse me 1949 and 1977 this dash line here represents the sea front of the mangroves in 1949 you can see that they migrated inland approximately half a kilometer so mangroves have this ability to adapt to be resistant to sea level rise the problem with this is that today we like to build our roads right here, right behind the mangroves on berms where if the mangroves can keep up with sea level rise they'll hit those berms and they can't go anywhere and so they may be able to keep up with sea level rise but because of the infrastructure that we built behind them we may essentially be negatively affecting that they're related to keep up with sea level rise okay so with that in mind I'd like to be optimistic I'd like to ask what can we do to save these mangroves as opposed to how many mangroves we're going to lose and so next slide so we came up with this specific sea level rise monitoring network and the goal of this network is to identify and protect critical mangrove areas that are naturally positioned to survive sea level rise those that can migrate inward as well as establish baseline data and monitor the responses so how fast are they rising or falling relative to sea level rise and when we identify those mangroves that are keeping up with sea level rise those should be prioritized for some conservation effort so minimize the amount of cutting minimize the amount of clearing for aquaculture or charcoal those are the pristine systems that we need to protect so that they can continue to keep up with sea level rise and providing us with the ecosystem services that we rely on and the way that we monitor this we use three tools the first is rod surface elevation tables or R sets and these are very simple pieces of equipment what you do is you go into the mangrove and you pile dry stainless steel rods until that rod hits the bottom of the peak so it hits a point of resistance next slide you concrete in next slide and you go up here and you attach this R set arm to the top of your R set rod and there are fiberglass pins that you slide down and that rests on the surface of the mangrove and then you measure because this rod is fixed now because you've driven it down to a point of refusal and you've concreted it into place this is a fixed distance so you measure the distance between the arm and the mangrove and so it wouldn't be a presentation by me if I didn't have one of my cartoons so if the mangrove is keeping up the sea level rise this is what it would look like next slide so as you come every year the distance between the arm and the mangrove decreases next slide if the mangrove is subsiding or sinking next slide the distance between the arm and now your mangrove forest will be flooded it's a positive feedback the trees will eventually drown and die so that's how the general theory behind rod sets next slide the next tool we use is surface accretion this is a little simpler you essentially go into the marsh with a fine clay potter and you sprinkle it onto the marsh surface and then you come back six months or a year later you take a core this is that marker horizon you measure essentially the distance the height of the sediment above that horizon and you know the time that's passed so you can look at surface accumulation so both of these techniques these first two techniques are great simple techniques to measure mangrove accumulation you can install an R set for about $500 $500 US dollars just an arm and other equipment to read it problem is that you have to go back once a month, every six months, every year so it takes time before you actually get the data that you want the third independent technique that we've been using are naturally occurring radioisotopes these are particles that are continually falling out of the atmosphere that are naturally produced and so you essentially go and take a core of the peat and you measure how radioactive those sections are and essentially the radioactive decay with depth gives you a sedimentation rate in centimeters per year and you can also use this information instead of looking at depth you can look at total carbon accumulation and you can measure below ground carbon accumulation rates which also identifies mangroves that are not only keeping up a sea level rise but are more productive than other ecosystems other mangroves that might not be next slide i might so this is an example of preliminary results these are some cores we took from the Republic of Hawaii in Vietnam two completely different mangroves these are from Camau these blue cores here so mangroves along the metron lots of sediment being delivered you can see that they are well above this dashboard the sites will be sampled and pretty good shape in Plough, they're kind of all over the place this is a high island coastal mangrove ecosystem less sediments coming in and so some of these systems appear not to be keeping up a sea level rise and suggest that managers should look at those systems and identify what they need to do to more effectively conserve or restore those systems so then i guess i'll end on this note mangrove conservation and restoration cannot be done alone it requires many people and partners who most importantly are willing to get dirty so if we work together i think we can try to identify mangroves that may be more resilient to sea level rise and if you want to contact me about any of the things i've brought up this is my email address and can i show one more real quick slide one more slide, i think it's i pulled it out but i want to pull it up next next next next okay i wanted to share this result these are elevation change over time from one of the mangroves that we installed in our set these are my collaborators and what they showed is over time they saw an increase in elevation of that mangrove compared to sea level rise in 2001 it started to drop in 2002 and 2004 it significantly decreased the reason for this drop is that someone went out by their set and cut down the trees around the area and it cut down a few trees and it resulted in a significant decrease in increase rates in those plots so we need to think about this in terms of managing forests for resilience for conserving them and maintaining the ecosystems that they provide that intact mangroves may have the potential to keep up with sea level rise but if we don't keep that in mind we could potentially lose them to sea level rise in the future so with that i'll take any questions to keep the discussion to keep the discussion focused we have a few suggested key questions and we want to think in particular about the next steps you heard some very innovative financing mechanisms opportunities with carbon with certification of organic truth what do we do next how do we scale up these initiatives at landscape level what R&D research and development may be needed to continue to improve the models and the measurement techniques that Rich has explained and the third and perhaps most important issue where will the investment come from to take forward some of these very good initiatives so with those few comments please introduce yourself and give us your question or comment on what you've heard so far thank you my name is Taufik from Starring Resources so i'm interested in model carbon project and especially addressing the third question can be S and model 3 can be R&D plus can be scale up so how do you address the problem of letting the right product the right in model carbon project as we know that the property rights is a fundamental basis for marketplace as it was mentioned the second one is how can we design an effective distribution of benefit mechanism to local people so i think that's the solution for model carbon project David, could you explain you talked about funding and that implies different owners of land and member of forest to encourage co-operate fund of that well, i mean when you use the word bundling there's two ways it could be one is getting a number of different coastal communities to pull together to do almost like a cooperative approach so that you get a larger landscape and the economy of scale that you would need for the project to be economically viable the other way the word bundling is used in terms of ecosystem services that can actually be marketable so that you're bundling more than one service and trying to attract investors from multiple markets so i just wanted to clarify when i was talking about bundling that we're trying to get the geography enough of the coastal landscape under one carbon project so that it has the right economy the question about how do you design a benefit distribution system when you have multiple communities along that coastline is a very complicated design issue if i had the answer i think i would be a very rich man at this point because i'd be developing projects left and right but the reality is that i think we need to be thinking about benefit distribution systems in your respective countries i don't want to say that i have the answer to change land tenure in your respective countries but think about benefit distribution systems in terms of existing institutional mechanisms or market mechanisms that exist already in your country context so some countries have what's called a village development fund or mechanism for social services to flow through a community we're not talking necessarily about monetary benefits did i say something very controversial not monetary benefits but social services so there may be things that the community would prefer to have that is can be delivered through this project it could be a better school it could be access to a market for the road system or a better theater to get their products to market these are all things that could be could be built into a benefit distribution system so that we're not only thinking about monetary benefits but associated multiple benefits that society wants and needs from that coastal community next question comment please jeffre jeffre blade based in mankind this may be more of a comment since we're talking about sustainable landscape maybe i can solicit commentary opinion from our distinguished panelists so in this last question here about institutional and policy challenges one of the things that i know that we're all aware of and thinking about is that the challenges and the mangroves aren't necessarily only from sea level rise but i'm really glad that rich would have that last slide because for mangroves to create to track sea level rise they need sediment and the sediment is coming from upstream from way upstream in some cases and policies for putting an infrastructure upstream from the mangroves could actually start them from receiving that sediment everything from hydropower dams to dredging the river channels themselves so i'm just curious about how you know we can kind of it's a little bigger not just like looking into mangrove restoration projects or conservation at the site itself but how do we look way upstream to actually make the intervention sustainable so i fully agree Jeff that's the landscape perspective that we have to introduce it's not only the lack of sediment but also lack of fresh water we go to a country like Pakistan that's depth for mangroves frankly so i think the landscape approach as you're right to point it out we have to look at the watershed to the coastline i just wanted to add that's a great point Jeff about the sediment loads but i just want to reiterate that there are healthy sediment loads so you can have low sediment loads and that's one of the points that last slide that i showed Ken Kraus pointed out that on high islands the sediment loads are coming down from the mountains that those mangroves probably keep up the sea level rise compared to at holes where there's not a lot of sediment load and of course building dams will influence that but that being said too much of a good thing can be bad and so if you have too much deforestation growing up in the watershed too much sediment coming in you can actually smother the mangroves if there's too much sediment and similar to that there's other impacts of increased nutrient loading from uplands as well and i know we have i want to be careful with my voice we have a colleague from the Nature Conservancy in the room i heard one question from Dancy there's an approach in Papua New Guinea to reef landscape approach and we're actually USA Leaf and USA Marsh program in Papua New Guinea are teaming up on the training exactly to look at the full landscape from the terrestrial side to the mangrove system so that we are pairing our training approaches to look at both aspects of terrestrial carbon accounting and mangrove carbon accounting in Medaig and Monos as two landscapes that have the same type of issues that you're talking about with upstream impacting the mangrove systems along the coastline i'm at Jarvan David, you just mentioned that there's a question about the beneficiary and distribution which needs to be solved i just want to let the people know that Feodrate is currently working on this together with Gold standard and Gold standard and Gold standard had also been moving into mangrove just recently Jarvan Jeremy policy advisor from the USA Leaf program i have a question for two questions for Richard do you have any estimate or the cost methodology to measure mangroves and have the 22 locations where you've carried out the training and have you actually got carbon measurements for those mangroves so the answer to your second question is yes, we do one of the, i don't know if i was clear in the goals but we are working with Seaford as a global database on carbon stores gas emission factors for mangroves and different mangroves for different types of land use the cost per hectare it depends on i guess the crew size and the cost per day for that crew as well as how easy it is to access the sites i guess a way to answer that question will be looking at the variability in the mangrove carbon stocks come up with a number of 44 plots should be install the mangroves across the country capture that variability so that's 44 plots and so if you can easily access those plots it's going to be more cost effective if you have to hike in the mangroves if it's really hot and the crews are working slow it can all affect that but there is a i believe dandanado for the cost breakdown and if it's not in that protocol if you email me if you're not a journey expert i can send you that breakdown but it ultimately depends on what the daily readers of the people any last question if not i'm going to put the panelists on the spot and ask if each of you can come up with your recommendation on the next step forward or an important research issue in your field of expertise literally 10 seconds each yes i've got the microphone i guess the way to go forward i think we need to monitor mangroves and identify those that are most resilient otherwise and develop mechanisms to conserve those those that are not resilient we need to figure out ways to restore them otherwise i fear that we may lose my next step is clearly the project and i just presented but i think we need to have viable market mechanisms to incentivize for me let's figure out which aspects of the carbon market or other payment free ecosystem service markets are viable for mangrove conservation and try to tap into those i'd like to see a proliferation of projects around the region because everyone that's presented is a unique opportunity around mangrove systems sustainable mangrove management and also sustainable livelihoods affiliated with those management the situation in vietnam is rather unusual we've got 40,000 hectare to make mangrove shrimp landscape in a way it's we're blessed it's very unusual i've seen a lot of places i don't know if at all there are a lot of new scapes in the states of Myanmar and parts of Bangladesh and i guess the question for me is how if mangroves are so good and all these good things for us how can you go a moon scapegoat to a more renewable productive landscape i think the technology is there but it takes these five or eight years to restore that landscape so that implies significant investment and i think for me, i could not think of a better or better focus in some kind of process from my present days and i raised this regarding muslim publicity as i know many of you may be aware jama island is really suffering because of the erosion and subsidence jangkata subsided but i heard about 20cm per year and jama and semarang it's for him 70m per year so actually we are now running with in one side with problem because subsidence and the other side really erosion so we try to focus on one thing which is related with hybrid engineering using a soft structure not putting the hard structure but putting the soft structure and the number one regarding hybrid engineering especially on the very resilience ariamin very sensitive ariamin second thing is related to the silver and same time we find how we can actually produce straight but in a sustainable manner but the same time also we stress the carbon so the problem now can we actually get material benefit by having manual along the upon area we can sell the strength we can sell the face but can we send it to the company so therefore i would like to propose because currently we have a project which is not far from here we are seeing it from spanish company it is a very small project living with a carbon offset so that company can offset it their energy carbon offset terima kasih i will conclude now i think the point to take focus that mangroves are very valuable in terms of the ecosystem of services they provide not least carbon but they are a fragmented ecosystem unlike terrestrial forests they are interconnected with water and sediment services that come from far away up in the watershed so the management scaling up to a landscape level is going to be particularly challenging but the value of those services that mangrove provide are extremely high so with those few words i would like to thank the panellists again and thank you all for attending