 Okay. Welcome to the Monday, November 21st, 2022 meeting of the Michaelia Design Review Committee. I will let all committee members and staff introduce themselves. Martha Smirsky, member. Meredith Crandall, staff. Steven Everett, staff member. I feel like a staff, please. Eric Olbersen, member. Benjamin Cheney, member. Okay, I will let Meredith review the remote meeting procedures. Okay, looks like we have on remote currently are the RC members. So we're going to keep this kind of short. All right. So for anyone who is viewing this meeting via Orca media, you can participate in tonight's design review committee meeting via the Zoom platform, either via video. And that would be typing this into your web browser and that should bring you right into the meeting. Or you can call into the meeting using this phone number and this meeting ID. If anyone is having problems accessing the meeting, you can email me at mcrandall at Montpelier-vt.org. I'll be monitoring my email throughout the meeting. Please know if you do log into the meeting, that turning on your video is optional. We do ask that you keep your microphone on mute when you're not speaking. If anybody does log in and add in any members of the public, I'll maybe give them a little briefing once we've brought them in at a good point in the break. Just know that in the event, the public is unable to access this meeting, and I would find this out via email, then the meeting will need to be continued to a time and place certain. I will now hand the meeting back over to the chair. Unless any of the members have anything to offer at this point, do we hear a motion to approve the agenda? I'll move to approve the agenda. I'll second it. I think Eric seconded it as he was muted. OK, sorry. All in favor of the agenda, speak your names. Martha. Eric. Ben. And Steve. So we can go to the first application for 25 Court Street, Paul, Hanlon, and Marcia Hill. Come up and have a seat and describe your application. Hi, I'm Paul Hanlon, Mr. Vermont, and I have a building at 25 Court Street. I'm here to ask approval of a new sign after 38 years of the old one. We've tried to almost replicate it, but not exactly. So we're trying for the same color, roughly the same size. I think it might be six inches wider than it was. And we need to replace the sign because it's deteriorating, and we have different people in the building. So we'd like to get a sign that is shown like in the cut sheet where the sign designer will make the sign and we'll have aluminum slide in, I guess, or screw in the placards for each of the individual professional tenants. I think that's all I really need to say, but I'm not sure. So Claudia's sign will be removed or is it there? Claudia took her old sign. Yeah, that's her old sign from her. She used to have a place out back of the city hall there. And since we were going to replace the sign, she just put the old one up temporarily so people knew where she was. Yeah, I don't like that one either. So the new one will be exactly like the old one? Pretty much, yeah. Not exactly, but we didn't even really design it. We just showed a picture of it to the sign designer and said, could you get us something similar? And there it is. And Claudia already spoke to my of what I noticed. It was about six inches wider. The new one is better. Yes, that allows those placards to have a little bit bigger print on them and it's a little bit easier to see from the street. What is the background color of the sign? Pretty much like the color of the trim on the building. The color picture was included. Yeah, it doesn't show on that screen very well. Yeah, I can see it pretty well here. It's very close, it looks like, to what you had originally. So that original one has probably faded a little bit. It has faded, yeah. So we would like it to be harmonious with the trim on the building and we're not looking for anything flashy just for a sign. OK. And what is the material? Well, I think it says what it is here. Sign foam. Sign foam, whatever that is, I don't even know. OK. Yeah, sign foam with aluminum plaques on it. OK. And what was the old one? Wood. Yeah. The only one suggestion to make it more readable go as dark with the blue as you can because the darker the background, the more contrast and more readable. That's a good idea. OK. So you can stay in the same color scheme, just make it again as dark. As dark as you're willing to go, again, the darker the background, the more readable it is from the street. And I'm assuming that letters will be white. The 25 Court Street would, but the individual signs I think would be the lighter color with dark on them. OK, yes. It's just a reverse. And again, however dark they're willing to go with their own names. Again, the more contrast, the more readable. Well, we can't give these tenants too much choice. You want some consistency there? You dictate the colors and they put their names on the way they want. Yeah, that pretty much was the deal. I'd make the new sign and they'd be responsible for getting their little placards. But of course, we'd want the colors to be consistent. Anybody have any questions, comments? There is a criteria sheet that has to do with science in the district. And so I will read down through that. The science location, design, color, texture, lighting and material of all exterior signs within the design review overlay district shall be compatible with the building and structures of the site and surrounding properties. That's acceptable. If a building has multiple tenants, there shall be consistency and placement in size among the signs. That's the case here with the individual placards. It is recommended that sign placement be centered over building entries. Not possible here, but that sign beside the entry is certainly acceptable. Sign installation shall minimize damage to character defining materials on the building. I'm assuming it's just screwed into the siding on the. Yes, the installation shows aluminum brackets behind the sign. OK. Sign design color and typography shall respect historic precedents where appropriate and shall be the appropriate scale for existing and new buildings acceptable. Sign support structures shall be compatible with the building architecture and shall not be overly complex or dominant in and of themselves acceptable. All in favor of the application for the signs. Speak your names. This is Eric. I say yes. I sound the mute button. I say yes. And Steve says yes. So four into nothing in favor. Thank you. So again, just have you sign this? I mean, there's no suggestions on it, but you're here. So have you signed this form? And I will get all of this to Audra. And have you talked to Audra, whether or not she's going to mail you the permit? Or if you want to. No, either way, it's fine. OK, mailing is fine. Yeah. Thank you. There should be a. Oh, you have a pen. Awesome. Yeah, there's a place. Just right below my name on the left there. Yeah. And then hopefully, I will get that in the mail this week. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Take care. Good to see you again. And the next application is for 32 East State Street. Sue Book. GB construction. Hi there. I'm Sue Book and I own 32 East State Street. And I live here in Montpelier. And I have a project I'd like to do to replace the very dilapidated looking but functional fire escape with some safety platforms that I was advised to were OK to use by Chris. And I think there was some other. Michelle. Michelle maybe went to. Yeah, so she has the new building inspector. Right. Yeah. And we had wanted to tell them about the conversation we had about you're adding a sixth platform as well. Oh, yes. Correct. I can show up. I can show the pictures. OK. The screens are. OK, that'd be great. Yeah. I want to explain that. Yeah, well, I guess there's that. So there's those four that are replacing, right? Right. And then two, not just the one that's shown in the picture in the packet, right? But both of the ones up on the like the attic space on the main building. So this side. Right. As well as this side. Right. Because the other one is a second bedroom. Yep. Yeah. Right there. Yep. So that one has to be replaced. Yep. So when you say replacing the platforms, Sue, are you talking will you be replacing the entire process, the entire steps and everything of the of the fire escape? No, the fire escape is coming down and it's being replaced with safety platforms. And so what you see in the drawing, those platforms so people can get out of the building and be easily grabbed off with ladders on the fire truck. OK, I've never heard that term before. So I didn't know what it was. Which term is that? Safety. Safety platform. Oh, well, that's what I called them. I don't know what they're called. Yeah. No, I think rescue platform or rescue platform, something like that. But yeah, it's a acceptable alternative, especially for the older historic buildings under building and safety codes. And they will be made of pressure treated wood and we will be staining them to match the building. And this is outside of our purview. I'm just curious that. So then that then makes it unnecessary to have the actual stairs down to the ground. Right. Wow. I mean, that's an ugly thing. I'm excited to see that disappear. You're going to miss all those stairs. I just found out it's functional. Meaning you used them? I did not. One thing you may consider as an option and a simplify snow removal is that it's a little more cost a little more than just, you know, the one by six or whatever you're using for the flooring on the platforms. But you can get those steel grates and they're galvanized and they have ridges on them. It's like the platforms you see at ski areas when people walk. And you will never have to shovel them because all the snow and ice goes right through. We have the stairs next door. And I used to have those shoveled many, many times in the winter and I have not shoveled once in the last five years. OK. Thank you. I'll consider that. You will quickly save the price of those by the lack of labor to shovel them all out, especially now that there's no way to get to them. Right. Yeah. Yeah. They carry them in cars or any of the steel places. OK. All right. Thank you. Just saved you a lot of grief. Yeah. Now all I have to do is stop tenants from putting plants and things out there. Maybe throw that in as an alternative on the form. Yes. And actually doesn't even show. I mean, it shows the railings and the spindles, but it doesn't show what the flooring is. So you don't have to change anything else. What you usually do is you can frame for the platform. And instead of putting one by six or whatever you were going to use for the flooring of it, you use maybe a two by eight or whatever you're using for the platform. Use a two by four inside of that and then cut the steel that just drops. Set it in, yeah. OK. And then if you want to secure it so it can't be removed, you can just take a couple of screws with washers and to hold it in place. Yeah. And again, it will save you a lot of labor in the long run. Yeah, it sounds like a good idea. I'll have to talk to GB about it. Does anybody, any members have any questions or comments? I'm good. I'm good. Good improvement getting those stairs off the building. I can read through the criteria for the change that you're making. There we go. Is that going to help you grab a point? OK. There's not many on here. Most of it is. It's just because it's the old projects, it's long. Yes, but I need to read through those. That's good. Yeah. The removal of historic materials or alterations of features in spaces that characterize an historic property shall be avoided. Character defining features, finishes and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship of that that characterize an historic building shall be preserved. Deteriorated character defining features shall be repaired rather than replaced, where the severity of deterioration requires replacement. The new feature shall be replaced in kind in any treatments that cause damage to historic materials, including but not limited to chemical or physical treatment such as sandblasting and not to be approved. This project is acceptable. Any new development shall be differentiated from the old that shall respect to be compatible with a massing size, scale, architectural features detailing an overall character of the primary historic building in nearby historic properties, acceptable. Alterations to buildings called for by public safety, accessibility, and fire codes shall be designed to maintain the character of the construction materials and features to the maximum extent feasible, acceptable. Architectural features, including but not limited to cornices, windows, shutters, fan lights, and tabulator trim, and other forms of molding or character defining detailing prevailing on the existing building shall be considered in the alteration of a building, acceptable. Landscaping, screening, and site furnishings project. Well, that's not applicable here. And I guess that's it. And the only optional change is that if you choose to use the steel grate flooring for those platforms, that's fine. And again, that's an option for you. OK. Based on that, all in favor, speak your names. This is Martha. I say yes. Eric says yes. Ben says yes. And Steve says yes. So it's approved. Great. And you can describe the next step for her. Same as with Paul, once Steve finishes signing this and filling this out, you can just sign this form. And I will get this to Audra, and she'll issue the permit. Have you discussed whether or not you want, normally we mail them. Do you want us to mail the permit in the notice to you? Or do you want Audra to email you, and you can come pick it up? OK, OK. So there will be in the envelope, along with a copy of the permit, will be a blue sort of firmer notice card. That notice card needs to get posted on the building, or at least on the property, in public view. And so inside a front window, if you can see that from the sidewalk, it's fine, because that gives neighbors the 15-day appeal window notice. I don't anticipate anybody would have any problems with this project, but it's just one of those things. You've got to post it. Smaller towns, the zoning administrators post them for people, but we've got too many to do that. That, and I think people would get cranky if we came and taped stuff on their windows. I think the last time we did a package up for all the butters. Yeah, we do that for people now. Well, before COVID, we were having people at least provide the envelopes. And then COVID hit, and it was just easier to just do it at this point. Great. And I recommend the galvanized, because they never rust. I think ours have been in there 15 years now, 12 or 15 years, and they look like they did the day when they were installed. Great. Thank you. And good luck with your project. You can see me or not, but thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks again. There's an opening. Yeah, you're interested. Has everyone had a chance to look at the minutes from October 17th? Yes, I have a suggestion. It's not a complaint, it's a suggestion. At the end of the second application, the one about the whole cal sign for World Cal Sign, it says Eric made a motion to table the application to November 7th. The motions pass on a five to zero vote. I would just suggest that we put in there the motion to table. Just so that it is very clear what we did. That sounds great. That's not a problem. Other than that, I think it's fine. Anyone else have any questions? Or do I hear a motion to approve the minutes? I'll move that. I'll second it. All in favor of the minutes? Speak your names. Eric, Steve. I saw Ben say Ben. Okay. Okay, minutes are approved. Does anyone have anything else to add at this point? And our other business? Yeah, so Eric mentioned this just before the meeting started while you weren't here, but I want to make sure you hear it as well, Steve, and so that the public hears it. The new design review guidelines that the Historic Preservation Commission drafted with some assistance from the design review committee. Have then approved to be recommended by the Planning Commission for adoption by city council. So I don't have a date yet for city council to actually hear those. We need to work out when that can fit in with their schedule for work on the budget. We're hoping either next month or January, but we'll see. I will keep everybody posted for anyone who wants to attend that meeting. You know, it's not a adoption of regulatory changes. It's adoption of the guidelines as policy. So it doesn't need to go through the formal double hearing process at city council, but it needs a little bit more than just consent agenda item. So we're looking forward and then we'll keep people posted probably via email. Okay, great. Anybody else have anything to add? With that, I'll make a motion to adjourn. Do I hear second? All in favor of adjournments. Speak your names. Martha. Ben. And Steve, meeting is adjourned. Thank you all for coming. Thank you everybody. See you on December 5th. Thanks. All right. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving. Bye guys. Have a great holiday. Yep. Good night all. All right. Good night.