 Is the Managing Director of Apkins Solutions Limited? So much will come to the program tonight. So maybe you can start us off by telling us what Apkins Solutions is all about. Thank you very much. Apkins Solutions Limited is a young company that deals with the enterprise resource planning. We do ERP for several organizations, academic institutions, government parastato. The health sector and the rest. So our solutions are based on Microsoft Dynamics Navision. Yes, which is a worldwide non-solution with the base on financials. So we do both medially the ERP, but we also complement it with web-based and mobile-based solutions. So for how long have you been in this particular sector? We've been in this particular sector like from around 2010, but we constituted Apkins as a companion in 2016. So from 2016 we have been actively participating in the ICT Center to provide solutions. Alright, maybe you should just dive into the conversation. So looking at the state of ICT and the young people in this nation, is this where we are supposed to be as a nation compared to other particular nations? In Kenya we are doing fine, but this is not where we are supposed to be. You see, in Kenya we have been credited with several innovations including we brag about M-Pesa innovation, but again beyond that level we have taken so much time trying to talk about that to the point that we have lost focus in trying to achieve or being innovative beyond that level. So we are doing so fine, but we have lost track a bit. We need to really focus on providing more solutions and we should be at a higher level than where we are. So ICT mainly involves coming up with apps, innovations daily, are there platforms that help nurture this particular? We say do we call it talent or this particular platform to the global stage? Yes, according to me from where I sit I believe there are several platforms available. Now what we are lacking is the knowledge and guidelines. Yes, we have several platforms. Today if you work to almost all higher learning institutions, you must find some corner that has Wi-Fi. That is the biggest resource as far as ICT is concerned. But now what we are lacking is the drive and the direction. Most of us just delve into the sector, but again we don't have any specific target or specific approach. So you end up enjoying the facility, but again you miss the target of focusing into your studies that would develop the kind of innovation that we need. So what we are lacking at the moment is just the direction, but we have the platform I believe so. Yes. Talking of like a strategic plan before maybe you come up with whatever you have studied may maybe succeed in the market, what are the impotences of having that particular plan before you start everything? Yes, of course it is always good to have a direct target. You know ICT is so broad. So if you don't have a elaborate plan, you may not be in a position to identify a specific area to delve in. Sometimes you see there are people who have been successful with very little component of ICT. Like you find there is someone, someone is a designer, but he does so well. You see if someone if you put into networking, he may not do it. If you want to do an innovative, maybe some mobile application, he may not do it, but there is a component of ICT about the design, about programming. So before you get in, you identify your target and your strength. So you must have a plan of what you want to achieve and then meeting that specific goal will be very easy because again you find someone who is a ICT guy but their specialization or their interest becomes diverse. Someone can easily network, someone can do programming of apps, but cannot do big solutions. So talking of maybe having different things to do with ICT, do you have like specifications if maybe I want to be part of this particular sector? Yes. You see when you get into the ICT field it's very broad and even if you are not trained or if you are trained in the structure of the training of this country, you get into an ICT course and in most cases if you are doing it the normal level let's say as a degree or diploma, you get an introduction into programming, you get an introduction into networking, you get an introduction into several other aspects of ICT. But again in this process you will identify your niche, some more thing that excites you. That's why you find someone ends up as a system administrator. Yes, he can handle that level. Yes, so there are specifics when you want to handle ICT. Facing it, all of it sometimes you may end up having several targets that you may not meet. So it is good when you have met your introduction, you identify your area, where you think you are comfortable. Yes. All right so far do you feel like our education system and whatever you are taught in the ICT course is competent enough to make young people who want to work outside here to do their thing without any form of incompetence? Unfortunately the kind of training we receive in our institution has become somehow outdated. Yes, you are taught languages that at the moment are not fast selling. So someone comes from the university, they have given some courses like in databases, someone has an A in Advanced Database, but this is someone who has never interacted with any database engine. Yes, so you come here, you present oracle they have never seen. You come here, you present a skill they have never seen. You present my skill they have never seen, but they have an A in Advanced Database. Or sometimes it gets worse to a point, you are taught by a lecturer who has also never seen. So our courses have become so theoretical that from where they are not relevant for what we do in the field. Yes, because I also believe our lecturers are not exposed because if the lecturer is exposed, why would an exposed lecturer have a student for four years and you have never told them that you can download Android Studio for free with the university internet and it has its own tutorials on how you can do your first app. So you bring someone to an interview and they have never done anything. So you employ them and start training them. All right, so it's not, I think that we would blame ourselves for not learning, we should blame our lecturers for not putting that info in us. A big portion of that blame is on the lecturers. But again, you find our students are also not taking the drive to know something. Yes, a big portion is in the lecturers because at least they need to identify for you to know that at least there is such a thing, ABCD you need to do. But at the student level, you see, you get to a university, a student is supposed to do their project, then they pay a fellow student to do it for them. You see, when they come back to the market, they face the same interview panel. That's the difference. So you find quite a number of students are not taking the drive to know. But again, you blame them and get to some level because they may not even know that what they are supposed to know exist. But you say Simon, are you encouraging laziness because I understand if I am a student I am supposed to do 70% and then the 30% or the 25% is supposed to come from my teacher. Yes. For the ICT, you see most of our lecturers, I don't know, but some of them are not modern. So you find even when you are doing your practical, they present to you engines like, let me use an example for the ICT, like the WAMP server. There is no single organization I have ever met in this anywhere that runs on it. Yet, you can train the student on how to do even small databases with MySQL, which you can download freely. But again, because most of them have not interacted with it, the student end up graduating thinking that WAMP server is relevant for running an organization. So the lecturer take a big chunk of the blame, but the student must also do their own research. Yes. Most of us, if you get a student that sometimes the background differs, so he is unable to even have his own laptop. Exactly. Yes, and the facility in terms of the institution computers are few. So sometimes it may hinder how they get to do their own practicals. But again, you find someone with his own laptop but doing games. Exactly. Yes. So remember you can be part of our discussion tonight by simply tweeting us, ETIV-1 annual I-254 channel. The hashtag to use is Y-254 updates. We are talking about opportunities in ICT. We take a very short break. We will be back with more. So don't you go away. Y-254. Imagine.