 Good morning Joey. Hello, how are you mate? I've got you now. I am very well indeed Joey. Joey, you are an activist. I'll talk about your colorful past very shortly. But tell me where you stand on this veganism issue. OK, so veganism is a lifestyle which seeks to exclude any animal use. We believe that it's unnecessary to use animals for their body, for their flesh, for their breast milk, for their eggs. Anything that comes from an animal these days is just unnecessary. And we avoid it as far as practically possible. So if you had your way, there would be no cows, no chickens, no hands, no pigs, no sheep in the Irish countryside. Well, inherently, Ireland is a nation of, Ireland and UK are a nation of animal lovers. And we love and care for some animals, dogs and cats and dolphins. But we condemn others to a slaughterhouse for an unnecessary reason. And there's no difference inherently in the way these animals want to live, in the way they feel pain, in the way they suffer. And we just think it's an injustice to these animals. You've made incredible progress. And people who are into turning people vegan and turning your back on the farming industry have made progress. A lot of this down to social media, you're very active on the social media scene. You film what's going on. You go to the slaughterhouses. You follow the farmers to market. They storm into the market. You're pretty vocal in your protest. Yeah, well, the thing is we bring to the light what happens in the dark. And I think if the majority of the public just didn't see the green pastures with the animals grazing and all these high welfare animals, if they actually seen what happens in these slaughterhouses, then they would have a different view on eating the flesh of animals. I've been inside a slaughterhouse myself and it smells like fear, like feces and like blood in these places. And it's a horrible place for animals. And why did you become so active in relation to this? Because you're a past as a chakra past. You've had your challenges in life. You've been involved in drugs. You've had addictions. You've been pushing the boundaries off the law. What was the road to Damascus moment for you? OK, so I had an epiphany and it happened while I had a period of sobriety and I've seen my life with new eyes. And I'd spent a long period of time in my life taking from people and hurting people around me. And I decided that it was time that I gave back. And I was I always was interested in helping others, helping human beings. But then I realized that there was someone suffering more that didn't have a voice and they were the animals. And I believe that the animals are the most vulnerable and the most innocent beings on earth and they don't have a voice. So I decided to speak up for them. And I'm going to speak to a farmer as well in a moment, Joey, because, you know, you're painting a picture of farmers in this part of the world. Farmers across the the UK is doing something that's very sinister and cruel yet and all. We all know farmers. We're related to farmers. We live with farmers. We we see the importance of farming. And we also are very aware of the desire for all those dairy products and meat products. It's it's it's our lifestyle. What why do you feel that you have the right to change that? OK, now, for starters, I want to emphasize this. I don't hate farmers. OK, I understand that farmers are just supplying a demand for these products and they've been brought up in a violent society that believes animals are here to use. So I don't have a problem with farmers. I have a problem with the practice of using animals for their bodies. Now, now, I believe people think it's just a choice. It's just an arbitrary choice. But the animal has no choice in this dietary lifestyle. Does it? So the animal has no choice. The farmers are making money off the backs of animals. And I want farmers. I don't want farmers to be out of a job. I want them to change the things they farm to the farm plant foods. There's a big there's a big demand now for plant-based products. And that does not involve a direct victim. What do you say to the people who target the farmers on social media who literally use the word murderer about farmers? I do peaceful, nonviolent advocacy. And I actually train other vegans on how to advocate. And that is not part of the advocacy that I recommend. I recommend polite dialogue. OK, respectful discussion. Now, we have to always have perspective in this situation. Farmers are literally force breeding animals, sexually violating them against their will, sending them on slaughterhouse trucks to be killed against their will. Now, would a bad nasty name that a vegan called you is that really worse than literally killing animals for a living? I don't know. But I still speak to farmers with respect because I don't hate farmers and I understand the conditioning. Can you really describe artificial insemination as sexual violation? OK, so they touch the animals' private parts. They're sexual. They stick their fist inside a cow's anus, hold the cervix. They jack off a ball and use the semen and they inject it into the cow's vagina. OK, now, this is all done against the cow's will. They're held down on a rack, very uncomfortable. If this isn't sexual violation, what is? I just don't understand why people wouldn't think that that's sexually violating an animal. Yeah, so I'm not exaggerating. These are actual standard practices across the board for the dairy industry. All animals are sexually violated. They're all impregnated, impregnated forcibly against their will. And they're all slaughtered. Every single animal is slaughtered for their body, for their wool, for their milk. At the end of the line, they're all killed. Joey, do stay with me because I want to find out where you're going to be speaking. You're going to be appearing here in Belfast. And I also want to speak to Sam Chasney. Sam is a beef farmer who's going to have the platform to put the point on behalf of the farming community, the very strong farming community here in Northern Ireland, just after this. Good morning to Sam Chasney, a beef farmer. Good morning, Sam. Good morning, Frank. Good morning, Joey. Hello. How are you, mate? Joey's on the other line. Sam, you've taken a quirk buttering this morning. Farmers in general from Joey's analysis. What do you say? Well, you know, really, this is just another new way of culture legend that we're seeing coming out of the woodwork. I take a Joey's from Australia and he's not really familiar with the animal practices and welfare that we have here in the British Isles in Ireland. You know, farmers in general in Northern Ireland, I can really talk with farmers here. We look after a stock second to none in the world. The practices we have are highly regulated by vets who really at the top of the chain, the veterinary profession is who we have to go by. You talked about slaughterhouses. All the animals go into a slaughterhouse or veterinary inspect it on the way in during the process and actually coming later on the year. I'll be videotaped for any any abuse or maltreatment of those animals. Now, we produce beef here and I thought that any of my animals on my farm were being maltreated or mistreated anywhere. I would be the first in the line. Joey wouldn't be in the first in the line. I would be as many farmers in Northern Ireland would be. We are very, very conscious of our livestock, our animals, their welfare. We treat them with dignity. You know, we are very, very much farmers and environmentalists as well. On this farm here, we have all sorts of wildlife with foxes, with squirrels, with kites, with buzzards. That just doesn't happen with maltreatment of animals. Now, Joey said, yes, we all should be eating vegetables. So where do those vegetables and those other proteins come from? Soya bean comes from South America. Brazilians are cutting down the size of whales every day of rainforest to grow soya. And then it's putting the plane and flowing across the world. The carbon that is produced from those flights across the world are destroying our atmosphere. They're destroying our climate. Yeah, so 91 percent of Amazon deforestation is to grow soybeans to feed your livestock. Defense salmon furnace of the farming industry. I'm going to let Joey reply to that. OK, so I don't deny the fact that you look after your cows. I would never I would never suggest that. The point is, is when you send them on to that truck, even in the most highest welfare conditions, they get a bolt gun in their head. They get hung up by their leg and they get slashed across the throat and chopped up into a million pieces so people can eat their bodies. And that's where it ends. That's where the welfare ends. OK, because that is not looking after an animal. That is using them for their body. And I have 91 percent of the process. I have this. I have witnessed this process and our local and our local are outdoors. And it's instantaneous. It is so quick. These animals do not know where they are irrelevant, irrelevant. They don't want to die, my friend. You know that your cows do not want to die. What what sort of animal do you farm cows? Sorry, do you farm cows or sheep? We have cows and we have sheep. OK, so do you know your animals do not want to die? Our animals don't know. They don't know they have no recognition of what they have. No impending impression of what's going to happen. That's what I say. This process is so smooth and slick. I understand you come from Australia. I understand some of the practices that happens of livestock haul to Indonesia on ships. I understand. Now, I've seen UK slaughter, my friend. I've seen UK slaughter and it's no better. Just on that, the point that Joey's making is even if the animal doesn't know when it leaves the farm and even if it doesn't know when it's getting off the lorry at the marked, it will know when it goes through the door. It's not stupid. Yeah, I mean, I just don't think this is a justification for it. Like, even if a human being didn't know they were about to be murdered, that would not change the fact that it's an injustice to take a human being's life. Now, if your dog, your pet dog, didn't know they were going to be murdered, it would still be an injustice for me to bolt gun them really smoothly, slice their throat, throw it open really cleanly and chop them up into pieces and eat them. They are no different in the way they want to live. Really, Joey, you're trying to change people into the way they eat and the way they think. You know, through evolution, we've all got sets of teeth and those teeth include K9 teeth-raiding meat where we're hunters and guards. Yeah, just hold on, Joey, let Sam finish. I have no problem with vegans. I have no problem. What I suggest is that everybody eats a healthy, very diet. Vegetables are very important in your diet as red meat because it contains bit of B12 and omega fatty acids from Northern Ireland. You can't get that really easily in supplements. And it's very important that the health, like, you know, your health is your food or your food is your health. It's what you eat in your younger years dictates how you grow through your adulthood and how you will maybe take education on. Joey, that's a strong point because, you know, most medics will tell you a healthy, balanced diet includes white meat or red meat, or it includes eggs, it includes cheese. OK, well, the science is on our side here because saturated fat and cholesterol. Cholesterol is only found in animal foods and it builds up in your arteries over time and it's 17 million people die a year of heart disease. Now, part of a healthy diet does not include violence. It does not include the body of an animal who didn't want to die. Animals get all of their nutrients from plants to begin with. We're filtering our nutrients through a dead animal's body that was killed in a slaughterhouse. Vegans are healthier. They have less deficiencies on average than nonvegans. And the peer-reviewed journal, the peer-reviewed studies done by scientists who aren't even vegan, support this as a fat. So it's unnecessary. We don't need to eat animals to survive. We don't need to need it for our health. We're killing them for an unjustifiable reason. Just stay with me, Joey, because I do want to, I do want to, as one final bit, find out where you are because I think people are interested in listening to you or maybe challenging you when you speak, when you speak in public. Sam, how concerned are farmers here? Because this is growing, if you excuse the term, growing legs in terms of social media. A lot of young people are rowing in behind what the like of Joey is saying. And some of them are losing the run of themselves as well. Joey's trying to rein them back in and has criticised them for being, shall we say, aggressive with their terminology and their language on social media. But how concerned are you as a farmer that this may take off now at a global level and people will turn their backs on the dairy industry and the farming industry? We're not really that concerned. But what we must do as farmers is to ensure that what we do is open to critical inspection in which we are. We are very reliant on the veterinary profession and all that. And just to go back on the vestibules, you know, you do spray crops to kill bugs. You do spray crops, the worms are dead, so they're all living animals too. So, you know, the vegan isn't completely, as he says, murder free. No, we're not really that concerned. We're going to have a dairy, a dairy February to put the dairy industry immediately, possibly on a lamb September. And, you know, I have no problem with the vegan. If he wants to take what he eats, that's fair. But don't just ram it down everybody's throat. Let people make a conscious decision. We don't tell people who to vote for. We don't tell people what sort of car to drive. It's a conscious decision if they want to be a vegan, be a vegan. But that's fine. I have no problems. OK, Sam, thank you. So, Joey, people surely should have choice. Yeah, but their choice involves a victim, which everyone seems to forget. The animal doesn't have a choice, OK? Now, vegans are reducing their harm as far as they can, OK? Animals, on average, to get one kilo of flesh, you need 16 kilos of plant matter. So animals are eating way more plants to get that one kilo of flesh than vegans are just eating directly those plants. So plant agriculture would be less. So there'd be less crop deaths and all of that by going vegan. Now, in your choice, there's a direct victim involved, just like any other form of injustice. If it was my choice to beat my wife, there's a victim involved in that choice. Just like in eating animal products, there's a victim involved, a direct victim that has no say in this. So the final question to you, because people either want to challenge you or support you, where are you speaking in Northern Ireland? OK, now, I guess I will be speaking at the holiday in Belfast Centre and I guess that will be my main non-vegan speech for this tour. But the rest of the events will be on how to advocate in a polite, respectful manner, which is what I recommend. I don't recommend people call farmers names. I don't hate farmers. OK, I just hate the practice of exploiting and killing animals. OK, OK, Joey, thank you, Sam, thank you very much as well. It is some debate, isn't it? Especially when you look at it through the eyes of people living in this part of the world, where there are farms all around. And we have families where some members are vegan and some members are actually involved in the farming industry. How much of a dispute, debate, row is it going to become in the years ahead? We'll be, no doubt, covering it in the future as well. Thanks to Sam and thanks to Joey.