 Hello, everybody. Welcome to Brain Club. I see a couple new people, which is really exciting, so I will introduce myself. I am Mel Hauser. I use she they pronouns and I am executive director of all brains belong Vermont. Welcome to Brain Club, our weekly community conversation on everyday brain like stuff. I'm going to do I'm trying this like really ridiculous situation where I'm operating two computers for two different purposes, because neither one of them are working to do both. So, here we go. This is, this is eerie. Because I'm looking at my shared screen on a different screen so as to look at you. Tonight we're going to be talking about home life reimagined. Before though, before that, we will just just by way of introduction. All forms of participation are okay here. You, you've probably noticed already that this is a culture where you can have your video on or off whatever you're comfortable with. And we don't expect anything of you, you know, certainly don't expect you to look at the camera, walk, move, stim, eat, all the things, and everyone is welcome here at brain club. And you can communicate however you are most comfortable, you can unmute, you can type in the chat box, whatever, whatever, whatever works for you. The only, the only thing about making this an environment that is safe and comfortable for everyone is that in addition to affirming all aspects of identity. We are all about to and this is this is new for 2023. We are really making sure to use discretion to so as to create a safe environment for people of all ages so we just ask you to use your discretion with with language and topics. Because this is, we want, we want everyone to be to be comfortable. And as a reminder, this is general education. This is not medical or therapeutic so individual traumatic experiences are best processed with a trained therapist outside of brain club. Last bit of access need updates is that it closed captioning is enabled, but to toggle it on if you'd like to use it depending on your version of zoom clicking either the live transcript CC button, or if that's not present some more dot dot dot. And she shows subtitles, or add subtitles, if you would like to turn them off. Alright, so, all month long, we, because you know, all year long in 2022 we've been talking about how, how things need reimagining. And now we're talking about some practical, you know, practical strategies for how to, how to do that what does it look like. And last, last week, if you missed it we talked about like new year. Let's, you know, I'm learning the brain rules of New Year's resolutions and all that, but really what is, what is, what is an authentic 2023 going to look like. And so this, this is the next step of this conversation. Because as we've been talking about since the beginning of, since all brains belongs inception to do anything for the neurodivergent community we have to do everything, because it's not just healthcare. It's, it's employment, it's education, it's social isolation. So, that's why we take all of it on. So, as we think about home life and all the various domains of what that means whether you are, you know, regardless of what your whole life looked like, hopefully this will be something something applicable to things on your mind. But before we get into that I want to give one more piece of update is that amazing news is I think by the end of today, we're going to hit $22,000 in the reimagining what's possible campaign. So, we're very, very excited about this. And for those, those who are new to this, thanks to a generous donation from a community member matching $25,000 as soon as we hit $25,000 it magically becomes $50,000. And all of this goes to expanding access to life changing neurodiversity affirming healthcare and community connection. So, we're going to talk about doing the thing. And talk a lot about not doing the thing and how part of life reimagined is to kind of zoom out and say, am I doing what honors my access needs, or am I doing things to comply with the rules of an environment that not only don't serve me but hurt me. And when, when, when I think about my five year old, I have a five year old to who I think is a magical representation of, of what unfettered autonomy looks like. She genuinely believes that if she doesn't want to do the thing, she does not do the thing. And so the other day I said, sometimes we have to do the thing. She says, why would I do the thing if I don't want to do the thing. Sometimes things are not optional. Sometimes you've got to do the thing. You got to like stop at the red light. You got to pay your taxes. You got to ask consent. These are the world rules. They're not optional. But sometimes we do things anyway, even if they are optional. They have benefit to me. You know, director interacts worth it. Sometimes I want to do the thing. Sometimes the thing is hard. And it's hard to do the thing. I want to do the thing. And that's where adaptations accommodations, asking for help, approaching it a different way, thinking about what are the barriers to access to reduce those things. And I wanted to begin with this before I'm going to play a pre recorded interview with Lizzie Paratt, who is our new educational programs coordinator. So as, as, as an asynchronous panelists today, I'm going to play this video, but, but I, and it's about, I think it's about 17 minutes, I think is what it comes down to and we'll get the, we'll have the chat box going while we're playing. Um, but I just kind of wanted to wanted to start with this, because I think that anytime we've talked about life reimagined, one of the questions that comes up from the audience 100% of the time and brain club is. What do you mean you just don't do the thing. So, I think it's not about not doing the thing. It's about reimagining what things you do and how you do that. I will stop sharing from screen number one. And start sharing from screen number two. So complicated. All right. Um, one of the things that I have learned from you is like energy management and conservation. I think that is part of my life reimagined like I just do all the things. I just do all the things until I can't do anything anymore. And like it's just like the yo yo it's I've done that my whole life. It just seems like maybe I don't have to do that. Like how'd you learn about that. How'd you start doing that. Well, I basically just like the main thing I did is I just like listen to my body and like. Really listen to my body internally and like. Just like sat with all my body's feeling, not like I sat in meditation or anything because I don't do that, but I just and not that I really even like. Had like reminders to check in with my body because that's kind of stressful for me too but. I kind of just would. Maybe ask myself like once a day like as the days going on like how do I feel. And then I would see what my body says. And I would also like check in like sensory wise how my body's feeling like that's a big one and I try to notice like. When like littler things are impacting me more, you know, in my environment and then like figuring out like ways I can meet my sensory needs to that was a big thing. Realizing like, okay, I want to like meet my sensory needs like more proactively and also realizing that. My body doesn't have to do the yo yo thing because like I totally like. Did the yo yo thing for like ever. And I also thought about, like, do what how do I want my body to feel for like the rest of my life like do I want the thing like, you know, 20 years from now do I want to do the yo yo thing because doesn't feel good. Like really awful and so then I decided that I didn't want my body to feel awful all the time so what are ways that I could be compassionate to myself because that's like kind of like my starting point of like having more self compassion for myself I think just like having more self compassion for my body like that's what I've been trying to to have is more self compassion in the past year and I guess that's one of the ways I started doing it like kind of unintentionally I just, I didn't really read very much or. I mean I've read into things but I like reading but that's just kind of like my own way I figured it out I guess on my own just listening to my body. Yeah. I'm Luna like she'll just walk around and be like, my body needs this or like my body really just like doesn't like this makes great let's get out of this environment you know like just that I mean that language is just. It's amazing to hear a five year old just like doing the things that I'm only now learning like for the time. Yeah, like definitely I think that is amazing like that she's listening to her intuition and like I'm just starting to do that now like I agree like just to have that like confidence like in your intuition and like, and that you don't. Try to silence it either you know. Right, right. Yeah that's like amazing that she can do that. Yeah. Um, when I remember like as a little kid, like sometimes when I would do the yo yo and I would just like crash and my mom was always like. Wanting to do the thing like it was like actively like rest was so discouraged was like you idling. It wasn't it wasn't the rest by rest's name was discouraged it was idling not being busy not being productive and like when you grow up in that. In that vein like it's just it's it's a lot of unlearning. So people are like oh you know slow down you know be present and like I never that's not what really drives me I think it's more what you said which is like, I don't want to feel awful anymore. That that I'm not like looking for like so you know like you know it's when you're like in the trenches and you're dysregulated I think when people kind of hear other people talking about you know like in the light and mend and salt actualization and like something. I mean just feels like so lofty like such a gap between that and like where someone is in the trenches, but I think it's about alright. This feels awful. How can we feel a little bit less awful. So what does that look like does that let does that mean like I rest, does that mean that I don't push through to do the thing does that mean I don't quarterly override my limbic system. You know what does what does that mean it could be like, you know, some might grow thing that just gets at, you know, like like for me like right now. I'm supposed to finish writing my progress notes that's the thing that I'm supposed to do in the gotta do the thing. I already know how terrible it feels to stay up late and do the thing because that's what I did last night. I'm just going to go to bed right now. Because life reimagined. There's a lot of time to do the thing. And the thing will get done. It's just, it's like Luna says, good enough mama bear think like parenting our kids like we're letting them be unapologetically themselves and unapologetically shine and not feel squashed and and we're celebrating them for them to be and we're celebrating all their magic. Every day in the little things. You know that are easily easily easy to overlook. And you, you often can't even notice the little things when you're still stuck in the old paradigm of I have to do the thing like I think that for me that's what home life reimagined is it's like, I don't actually have to do the thing. I just don't do the thing sometimes like it's kind of like when I posted what my toilet and dishes and laundry look like on Instagram like that's what they look like because I can't actually do all the things. I just don't. And I want Luna to, it was actually interesting so Luna said to me today she says, like her new her her her mantra and it's like it's very, it's it's it's automatic speech, but it's like also like a life model of, I do what I want. And, and I was like, dude so much you got to do the thing and she says, perfectly sure she says, Mama, you don't have to do the thing. I agree with Luna. You know, that's what I'm realizing like you don't have to do the thing, you know, like, maybe you don't do the thing and then maybe you have spoons and you pair the thing with some type of play, like I pair a lot of play to things in my life. That's something my husband taught me like, like I blast Disney music now like really loud, you know, and like, dance around tidying my house. You know, but I think, I think Luna's mantra of you don't have to do the thing like it's true like you, like I'm also like, okay now with letting more things go and like stepping into peace, and realizing that it's my my piece is one of the most most important things I can protect. And that changes, like the whole home environment. And I think that gives confidence to our kids to totally because I'm like, peace is with like, like it's within you like it's your energy. Yeah, like it's interesting. And you know, sometimes and like I know this intellectually but in the moment I like still sometimes feel like I have to do the thing. I think it's something like I mean I could say like yeah I'm in the toilet, but I do feel like I have to do the thing where it's like well Luna has to take her medicine in the morning. And so what do we do we start every day with a battle of like take your medicine, medicine, medicine, medicine, and like, yeah, like, it's like when I want her to do a thing, she can't do the thing, because that's just how hypersensitive neuroception is like you don't get to pick right so I tried on the idea of like alright well what would happen if she didn't take her medicine. Well, I mean, three days later or like, we notice but let's not think three years from now. What's going to happen today, if she doesn't make her medicine will probably be okay right so I'm going to not do the thing. And it just starts the day differently. But she didn't take her medicine today I mean, I really think she needs to get medicine tomorrow but I'm going to just not start the day with a battle, because it's kind of like the like the hand of bloom. Bring club in October, where we talked about how sometimes you have to pick, like so if I have to pick between the relationship, the energy the safety of the relationship and the thing I'm going to choose the relationship every time. Yeah, definitely. That's the most important thing. I think what's going to happen is I think people in the brain club audience I think they're going to be like, you have to do the thing what do you mean you say just you don't have to do the thing you don't do the thing unless you want to do the thing. There's, I think some of the, the feel like even let's take school. Like, Scott's like, what do you mean you're not sending her to school, like, she's got to go to school, like, well, she has to learn to read was like, read like, like to battle. You know, the really she goes first is. Yeah, I really would like her to have a way of expressing herself. And, you know, at five years old, I whipped out the pages app on the iPad, and she talks and it transcribes like okay that's going to. Like, just, it's, it's brain rules that there's like one right way to learn to do the thing and you do it in this order, and we will battle and slog through and that trenches because that's what you do productivity with growing up like is like huge, you know, for my mom and like coming out of that culture, it's like a lot of unlearning and and I agree like you know I've heard the messages of oh like be more present slow down it's like that stuff didn't like, I didn't really connect with like, I've heard that for like years and thought okay like that's great but I don't know it didn't do a lot for me but but yeah just being in the body when what when I've been cultivating the past year of like not feeling awful like I didn't make it a big like lofty goal or resolution or intention or anything and I think that's what's helped me stick with it. So that's really interesting because I didn't like shame myself into trying to be more compassionate with myself or anything, you know, I just kind of like let it like flow. Did you like forget along the way and like slip back into the old way. Yeah. Yeah, and then I would remember oh yeah this is what awful feels like. Yeah, flow like feeling awful. Then feeling okay. I'm doing awful feeling awful feeling awful right for a few weeks then be like oh yeah there's another way I can feel. I can feel okay. Maybe I should try that again. I'm not like pressuring myself shaming myself feeling like I had to like get there and like arrive and or and also not putting the pressure on myself to feel like I had to be like the picture of what I want a mama to look like for my for my kids. You know the brain rules the brain rules of like this thing, even internal like internal things. Yeah, I got to be calm. I got to be peaceful. I got to be, I got to feel this and be this like, I think the, you know, like you say, being in your body like when you think about interception differences when you like, you know, necessarily feel your body like that makes it hard. So that's not the only way, like for me, I think that I know that's not my strength. So much like Lino was taught at each three because like we found that when she'd go out and in the cold she wouldn't feel cold. And yet she'd start flipping her lid, because she was cold she just didn't know it was cold. And we like we learned like visual checkpoints, you know, like, when you look down, and your fingers are read, you know, you might be cool. It's on the differential at least, or one time one time she was choose maybe like a little bit, maybe she's for. And, and she says, my legs don't work. And was it my legs don't hurt. And my tummy is warm. I think that's called hunger. She's like, Oh, that's no information. But like that's how she learned that it's like the other thing, the things that she does feel what's the sign so like my new sign is again with my new computer that doesn't work it's harder to show you like the array except I definitely should make it up. I should definitely make a real out of my desk right now. This is like full out autistic burnout this desk, this desk is out of control. Anyway, so like that is this desk is a visual checkpoint for me of like go to sleep. You can't do all the things. You know, like, I think that there's a lot of a lot of like home life and work life. Like, there's so much overlap there. But everyone has to be on board. You know, like you can't be in a workplace culture where you walk around being like, good enough mama bear, and everyone else is like doing the thing, because I mean, you can be on your path to enlightenment you could also get fired, you know, like, but you know, it's but but but even worse, worse is being shamed, worse of being shamed of like, you're lazy, you don't care, yourself, you know yourself absorbed you only think about yourself, you're not thinking about the organization you're not thinking about the, you know, the stakeholders. It's like not always true it's really just I was trying to feel okay, trying to feel okay. Oh, it's just. But when that's not in the culture. It's very easy to internalize the messages but there's something wrong with you for being selfish and being too much and all of that. And it's so so yeah. I just knocked something over. Um, so I wonder, I wonder if anything stood out for for anyone in terms of what makes it hard what makes it hard. And you're sharing. It's okay to do a little bit towards a goal. Yeah, I found that really in that also of like it's of of of it's not like I read a thing I learn a thing I have the ideal and then I do that, because in many ways, that's part of yo yo. Like, any time. Oh yeah well I'm going to do the thing where I honor my access needs and we'll do it all the time and then I'm not going to do it at all it's like all or nothing is kind of part of the yo yo, in a way that's not, not always helpful. I wonder for anyone who has been dabbling in reimagining life. What has it been like, what have you noticed of the consequences of like just kind of zooming out and questioning some of the, some of the brain rules. I had a recent experience I can share. My parents came to visit this over the holiday is like the holidays is a really good time to reevaluate your, your home. So, they're kind of like old school and such that they like kind of have expectations of how children will behave, which I don't ascribe to. One of the things that I don't require my children to do is to continuously socialize with guests that are at my house. I don't tell them their need to stay around. So when my parents come they expect my children to kind of be present in the room the whole time, but my kids are so used to me just like they just go to their rooms when they feel like they need to, because that's what they need they need to like, they just go to their room and recalibrate and stuff. So it was like, every time my kids would disappear, even if my parents weren't interacting with my dad was like, where, where are they going. And I had to just be like, I don't know they're probably going up to their rooms to like watch something or, or like listen to some music or something. And there's definitely some feedback I get from that but I don't change how they function because it's best for them. So that's like, my experience. So Christina, my response to a question like that and you know, we may or may not have had really similar discussions in my house over the holidays. But, you know, the response to that is, so where's she going. She's regulating. Because it's, it's, it's some, I mean that is what it is. And when, when, when, when reframed, it's obviously the right thing to do Laura. Yeah, it's, thank you, it's just making me think of like, Christina it sounds like you're such a great parent because I feel like that's the ideal when your kids can have the space to go do all that stuff but I feel like that it's so ironic that there's so much judgment for kids going off to regulate and yet if they were to stay and become dysregulated all the judgment that comes with that would be on as well and it feels like we need to have space for kids to, if they can self regulate isn't that the ideal and like, if we don't let them regulate we're going to be mad at them for the consequences of that. Yes, that that is literally what goes on. Yes. Angie's agreeing. My opinion it's better to set your boundaries and then take care of yourself and to bottle and blow up. Yes. Yes, absolutely. And you know, I, yes, I think that kind of collectively, we can talk about how this reimagining this reframing this questioning is is helpful, and it's really hard. I wonder, doesn't what makes it hard, because sometimes naming that thing can make it less hard. I kind of have just like inner turmoil you know like I know that something's brain rule versus a world rule, well sometimes not all the time sometimes I get into the argument about that like well is this like my rule is this my husband's rule is this like Vermont's rule what am I doing here. Yeah, so I tend to just get into like these little arguments with myself and spiral and then begin living to what I perceive as somebody else's expectations like my expectations are fricking off the table at that point like because I can't. I can't even get it at that point it just becomes what I perceive I am expected to be doing and you know since becoming a homeschooling parent and not working like I feel like home work and family have just kind of made this like ball that I am not quite sure how to play with it anymore like now I just kind of look at it and feel like I'm not doing what I need to be doing and then my poor kid is like I don't want to do 19 worksheets and I'm like we need work samples you know and then for like the next month I'm like yeah we can just like play Legos every day like that's fine who needs work samples yeah so for me it's finding the balance of those those cycles and just trying to shoot for that middle of like hey maybe like a work sample a week is what we should be aiming for realistically. I think I'm my biggest problem. Well, I also think that I don't know that it's a problem. Right so you're basically saying I have a tendency to yo yo because of all of the factors that have led to this namely, my intuition has been squashed I've been told the power through and shamed for not powering through. Of course you've lost touch with your ability to like know in real time whether you've gone too far or not of course you have how would you not. So, you're yo yoing. So, what would it be like to just name the thing and teach your kids even from a young age. This, this is a pattern, it's you know this is a thing that sometimes I can't tell when I've done too much until I am really exhausted. And it doesn't need to necessarily be named as a problem. It's just, it just is this is a tendency a trend, a pattern. It just, there may be some like tendency they make sure that tendency and the sooner that they like are aware that it's a thing. I think I think it might make it easier to deal with. And, and, and being light with it is okay too I think like in. There's a my little pony character rarity for for for those who don't know Luna and I we we briefly shared a monotropic focus on my little ponies because I thought this was like the ultimate neurodiversity show. And I'm like, they're all the all the cartoon pony characters are like caricatures of personality treats, and they all have conflicting access needs, and then they all have the power of connection and all this anyway it's like, anyway, the character rarity is like, she's all about perfectionism. And so now we have a frame of reference external to us, like little say like well it's not perfect, I'm not perfect like I'll be like okay rarity, and like that just takes the edge off a little bit to make it to make it okay that we can get through this moment. And it seems to just sort of deteriorate to like chaos in a way that I absolutely relate to having spent most of my life needing things to be just so and feeling shame and frustration and all the things when it wasn't. So Christina Christina that that I think that is another another part of this that shame of. Oh no I did it again I did the yo yo thing. Yes. Yes. Yes. Which is why I think going back to the concept that this is not linear it's not like you're like you really imagine you like acquire intuition and you learn how to meet your access needs and it's it's it's like you're just hovering on the edge. It's like coming in and out and in and out and, and there's going to be all kinds of breakdowns with other people and with yourself and I think it's about, you know, like, like, like, for those of you who don't know actually if, if, if Sarah or Lizzie could find this it's over fourth brain club with Hannah Bloom and linking to that that's one of my favorite brain clubs of all time, talking about kind of coming in and out of attunement, and like the repair cycle after breakdowns and and and all of this it's such anyway anything Hannah Bloom ever says is magic. So, um, so what was I going to say about that. I mean I may have just been talking about that Hannah Blooms magic and that would be okay if that were my point but I don't remember what my point was. It's the same thing of like there it goes again of of of like yeah so I yeah it's it's it's it's just the warning sign it's like oh yeah, I'm cold my hands are red. Oh yeah, I've done too much. It has been, you know, there, there are 1234567 cups on my desk right now that has crossed the threshold that it is that it is time to scale back on the yo yo. I just put it in the chat. Thank you. Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. Laura. The yo yo in our house is like keeping it reasonably hygienically clean basically. And like we just, it's like, get super busy and things get chaotic and then we play catch up for like six hours on a weekend to do all the laundry and all the dishes and it's been sort of nightmarish and so what we've been trying is like, we made a list of everything that happened by we I and my husband help, but we made a list of everything that has to get done in the week and then we like spread it out so it's a little on every day and what we're trying is like very planned and organized bite size pieces. And it's been like a week and that's been a better plan than our like yo yo of like all in all out all in all out in that way. I love that. And your, your, it's just, I think the, the, the main concept is like there's not a right way to do the thing. And, and that's okay. It's about like, and and I think any for any system, it's only going to work for a certain amount of time it doesn't mean that you yo yo all or nothing, it's just that like, and that was expected systems when they lose they are no longer dopaminergic, therefore they don't work. Or, or, or sometimes it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's like harm reduction, it's like, well, the toilet is chaos. So maybe I'm going to like, I don't have the spoons to like scrub, but maybe the spoons to spray. But the partial job is better than no job at all. Maybe I'm not going to catch up loads of laundry, but maybe I can do one. You know, like this just, there's not one right way that one of my personal goals for brain club is about like creating space, like space for people to to enter the conversation because the conversation goes really quickly. And I have the kind of brain that does not feel time. So when I'm pausing I feel like I'm waiting a half an hour but it's really only been like five seconds. I'm not reading in the chat. It's my way of asking for help because typically my husband is willing to help but doesn't know what things are weighing on me. So now it's hanging in the kitchen and he can help without the mental mental energy of me having to think through what needs to be done. I mean that is exactly what I meant with my slide before the video of, of like what what like reducing the barriers, you know the activation energy or the executive functioning or whatever. I think that's a great, it's a great example. So it's interesting because next week, we're going to apply this to, you know, it's, we called it reimagining education. But I think it's, it's, it's, it's really thinking about how do any of us learn new things at all ages it's not like education like the school system for kids that's not what we meant by it. I think it's just about like, like, zooming out and saying, despite the brain rules of maybe how, how I grew up thinking about how there's one, there's like one way that this has to look because that starts early that starts so early. And, and, and I think going back and like revisiting our own educational experiences as adults, I think makes it it's like part of I think the learning process because if we don't remember that we were socialized a particular way. I think I, I think it's, it's easy to still believe it. Question. What's the question scrolling scrolling with a PDA help does the list making make the child not do the thing. Well I think that's a great question so just like jargon busting so PDA pathological demand avoidance which gets terrible term but persistent drive for autonomy basically as a subtype of autism with hypersensitive or extrasensitive neuroception threat detection threat detection, the autonomic automatic automatic autonomic response to two demands. Christina is asking is a list of demand for some people yeah for some people even their own list is a demand. Which is, which is, I think, one of the reasons why executive function support systems, not only do they fail sometimes when novelty wears off, but the thing that exists to help and support can also at the very same time be the thing that stifles and strains and like, how dare you know, tell me how to spin and it's like irrational, but it doesn't it's not supposed to be it's the limbic system it's not like it's it's not your thinking brain. So yeah, I think it I think it depends on for person to person and within a person it's like internal conflicting access needs. I'm reading reading in the chat my husband tried to help me the other day by telling me all all I had to do was make a phone call and ask the question I was wondering. Right. So you know, all I had to do that's easy. That's simple like these are all like on helpful because we all have different brains. And he says we're human beings not human doings in this invalidating capitalist society does not help us take care of ourselves. Yes, David did you have your hand up. Awesome. I'm just really loving all of this as I get more familiar with brain club and what you're doing I just just simple things like over the new year. The point is not to become our best selves in the new year but to become our authentic selves. And that requires just this is brilliant and the not sort of being in charge here all the time of course gave me shudders as I think about the way I did my was with my children sometimes I was with a family over the holidays where the father would script everything the young daughter would was supposed to do that we would come in the door and he would call and say, David and lawyer here come. Say hello to them and if she would appear say, say thank you for coming to see me. I've never seen anything quite right. The whole thing was scripted for her. And the only thing that made me feel a little better is that there was some part of her that I, I think was really stepping back from this and realizing what was going on, and sort of going through the motions but not taking it too seriously and that's my hope is that she wasn't being crushed by this. I have a question on this whole parenting thing and this came up with when I watched with terrific interest the discussion with with Amanda Deekman. I mean, do you find, are there occasions with Luna. I mean I understand the principle here is that there is so much ability to step back and it's like finding the pivot of the Dow and sort of the Dallas tradition you find the way to nudge something in a direction without having to push anybody around. But I mean are there occasions with Luna for example where there's something you really know needs to be done for health or safety or whatever. She really doesn't want to do it. And what do you do in those situations. Yeah, I think that I'm going to answer that a couple different ways. I'm going to answer like conceptually and then I give an example that's happening literally right now, like, right now. So, it's about I think first. What is her. What is her capacity at the time that we're having the interaction. So, I need to have a cortex to cortex interaction. If either one of us are dysregulated a whole bed is off. So this happens like all the time. So, she, she actually thinks her medicine is helpful. I don't think this are in the video clip but like this plays out like in sometimes kind of dramatic ways. So it's not about if I say when I'm medicine. I should never say it that way because it's predictable that that's, that's too much of a demand. If, when it's not medicine time, we have a conversation around like, all right, let's think about this like you're saying this, you don't want to do this help me understand that. And what would make it easier. Hey, you know, I'm remembering before you started this medicine this is the problem that you were experiencing you were experiencing this problem that you don't have anymore. Like, oh, and then for like a good three days she was all about taking the medicine, but in the moment, like, you do the thing becomes power over, not really about engagement and safety. Maybe something like, you know, it was, we call toenail clippings pedicures like, you know, clipping with a kid's nail clipper, you know, with like, you know, one foot on the bed and the other head upside down anyway this is pedicure anyway so pedicure. Now. Well, like, you know, I noticed that this morning you scratched yourself when you like you picked yourself with your own toenail and like I think you're gonna be more comfortable. Now, but then later on she like I left the clipper and she's like, yeah, all right, it's time. Like it's just she has to have access to her cortex, because otherwise it just becomes like a battle of wills. So what I have in full transparency where I struggled the most is when it comes to interacting with other kids, I can, I can learn my brain rules around acting around adults so if an adult says hello goodbye and Luna doesn't like I'm not I used to totally be the parent say goodbye like me totally. So it's what everybody does right so so anyway, but I with other kids. I worry, I worry, and I think when I'm coming from a place of worry, it makes it harder to be energetic being neutral. So for example, I just received the feedback that there was an. I haven't fully processed it. So there was, I would, the feedback passed along was that there was a quote, unkind statement said to appear. And can we prepare for the next interaction. And my first thought was, did that come from upstairs burn downstairs brain. My husband says, well, you're going to deal with this, you know, because you and your autonomy. So, so, so I approached Luna, and I said, hey, you know, I, and it was rushed because we're playing club. So but my approach was going to be like this thing got said and just stop and see what she said. And I get like without a direct question, a command, a shaming of like you can't do that. Because I think that the, the description of it as an unkind thing is not is that's not what this is about this is about conflicting access needs. You're dysregulated you say something to another kid that ends up causing hurt feelings. It's conflicting access needs it's not about that you're responsible for other people's feelings. It's about that in life. We don't violate other people's access needs and if someone has an access need for belonging and we are showing up to this relationship. We have to kind of figure that out. So what was it that led to the dysregulation. Like you can't do the thing say you're sorry, you know, like, that just doesn't help. Right, as Sarah said in the heat of the moment. But it's very, very hard. But I think even for young kids having a framework, much like you're saying you observe this family with the scripted kid and then, and the kid being able to zoom out and say like, this is a little ridiculous. That that I think is healthy to recognize other people's brain rules like it's not that they're necessarily bad rules but probably this parent probably had the idea that they it's important to them that their child is polite and there is one right way to be polite and like, anyway, so it's it's like zooming out from the actual events. And so in this instance with Luna, I think it'll be about. Hey, I, I wonder what your access needs are in these social situations and what are some strategies to getting those access needs met so that you are having more, more rewarding fulfilling interactions where you're not getting we're not feeling dysregulated you're not feeling dysregulated. I think part of it too is like building up the bank of like, you know what, because when you have a child like that like everything you ask them to do is a demand. You know, even something as simple as something that a lot of people wouldn't consider a demand feels like a demand to a child like that. And so, you know, I on school. I have two kids an eight year old and a 10 year old. And I feel like, you know, we, we give them a lot of freedom, and a lot of leeway over decisions in their own lives. And like an example would be like we were with grandparents and it was the last time we're going to see the grandparents before they were heading on a big trip and they're going to be gone for a few months and the 10 year old was tired. It was the day after New Year's Eve he was tired he wanted to stay up and watch the ball drop and he was just like not into the walk and he was like, I'm done. And we were like, Okay, you know, we can be done with a walk. That's fine. You know, but a lot of, I think like Laura was saying if you push through, and then experience dysregulation, that's not going to be fun for anyone. He's going to teach him that he has no ownership over his own life, and cause that disconnection. And so, having the opportunity to have ownership over decisions like as simple as I'm done with this walk, I want to go just hang out in our vehicle and wait for you know, means that when it is a health or safety issue. I do feel like I've built up that bank a little bit more. It's not to say that it's always easy. Sometimes it can become really hard and I have to be careful about how I energetically present myself around even health or safety things. But I feel like, you know, there's just more investment in the relationship and autonomy over their lives in other places. And that allows, it just allows for it to happen. I think more easily than it would have if they had even more control over other parts of their life. Thank you, Sarah. I think that's true. I think it's not just regulation in the moment, it's like cumulative. So in Luna's instance, I am interested in what happened right before it was said, but I'm more also interested in what happened all day long. Because I think that, you know, it's regulation or dysregulation, what takes its toll on your nervous system is cumulative in a day and a week and a month and life cycle, you know, and Stacy's speaking of self regulation, Stacy sharing shameless plug for self-reg by Stuart Shankar on my favorite books of all the books I've read so far in this vein. This one really opened my eyes to the self-control, self-regulation paradigm shift. Yeah. And, you know, it's written for parents and teachers, but I, it's, I learned so much about myself. This is like back when I thought I was like, you know, a neurotypical parent. I had a one-year-old. I read this book and I'm like, oh, you can like intentionally do things to feel calm? What? I didn't know this. Like anyway, so anyway, and also I will actually, if you look on the All Brains Bullying Education site, the Family Luncheon Learns, I gave a talk last year about this book and it's recorded. It's in the archives of the Luncheon Learns. I'll put that in the chat. Reading Suzanne's comment, I'm appreciating the empathy and grounded smarts coming from all and recognizing the need for attunement after a dysregulated state while remembering we can't be in attunement perfectly. Beautiful note to wrap up on, right? It's all, it's every, everything is fluid. Yeah, it's Kelly said, we, what we do, we call fluid routine in our days. A certain half do is when everything else is your own time. We call it no-demand time in my house. Yeah, I think it's like coming in and out of attunement, you know, with ourselves and with other people. Thank you so much for being here and look forward to seeing you next Tuesday. Have a great week.