 Pursuant to Chapter 20 of the Acts of 2021 and extended again by Chapter 2 of the Acts of 2023, this meeting will be conducted by a remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so in the following manner by emailing stevemccarthie at mccarthies at mrstma.gov. That's m-c-c-a-r-t-h-y-s at mrstma.gov. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time by a technological means. In the event we are unable to do so for reasons of economic hardship and despite best efforts, we will post on the MRS website an audio or video recording transcript or other comprehensive record of proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting. With that done, we'll call the meeting to order at 5.04 p.m. and take a roll call of attendance. Dylan? Here. Gaston? Here. Doug? Here. Ellie? Here. And I'm here, so we're all here. Good to see everybody. Okay, public comment. We're now open for public comment, and this is comment which is unrelated to anything on the agenda, discussion topics, et cetera. If you have any sort of general public comment, please hit the raise hand button at the bottom of your screen and raise your hand so that you can speak. Anybody? Nope. Okay. Welcome to licenses, part three, a new liquor license applications. The first one is spear point enterprises LLC doing businesses doing business as Gabe's underground 37 to 41 bolt would walk and all of the whole on premises license and someone's here for that, Steve. Yes, we have to they should be coming in as panelists right now. It's the Reese and Andrea. Hello. Hello. Hi, welcome. Welcome to the board of license commissioners. Would you like to introduce your business a little bit. Thank you for your application. Yeah, so I'm Gabe Krause and Reese. She's my manager out there in Amherst. She's going to be taking care of things out there. So she was, we had her kind of sit in on on this and see the proceedings. So. We, you know, we're, we're looking to open a, you know, a nightclub nightclub slash, I guess, kind of, you know, restaurant slash bar type location on boat would walk. So, you know, just to base our main kind of crowd is going to be the college students and the local locals that come in. So that's where it's kind of what we're, what we're aiming for. And I heard, I believe we heard at another meeting that you do have an establishment already in another town. Yes we do. It's games to 52 and Westfield mass. Okay. Yeah. So it's the same kind of concept. We, you know, we've locals and college students are our main niche for for us. So. Okay. Thanks. Does anyone have questions or comments. Or gave. Quick question. Yes. This was going to be a nightclub I haven't had a chance to look. Is it going to be. Business in Westfield. Is that also a nightclub? Or is that just like a bar restaurant? It's, it's like a bar restaurant. Yeah, kind of, kind of nightclub ish, but it's a large, it's a large, it's a large bar with has a large dance floor and it has pool table areas. And we're, we're working on building a new kitchen there because we had one for a while, but the, like, after the COVID regulations were over, we couldn't use that as a kitchen anymore. So we're trying to try to build something a little bit more permanent. So, got it. Great. Thank you. Can you tell us your plan for nights that you want to be open and kind of roughly how you envision a week of your business. So, we're mainly we're aiming towards probably opening, you know, the hours that we provided, you know, I think it was to 2pm to 1am. We're really trying to gear towards involving everybody, but we do know we understand that it's, you know, it's a it's a big college town, you know, it's it's a lot of college students in the area. That's kind of like our specialty is reach, you know, kind of reaching the college students. And, but we want to, I wanted to create a space. The location in Amherst now used to be like three to four different businesses. And my vision was to really, you know, create something that would keep people there, you know, instead of just a dance floor and, you know, having drinks, they have an area to play pool, maybe play some arcade games, get some food. Yeah, it's, you know, what sports it's I want to, there's separate rooms, but I wanted to incorporate it all into one one entity so it's, you know, kind of appeals to the the local crowd that sticks around, you know, or the college kids that are, you know, a little bit more. I guess, I guess a little more into sports or, you know, just hanging out instead of going dancing and stuff so that was kind of my goal. Excellent. I've got another question whenever you want to call me. Oh yeah, go ahead Dylan. Sure. And then, so the pool tables now is this like you're not going to put any sort of like condition obviously mandating that you have to have them, but as you're kind of going into this is like a pool tables that you're, you're really wanting to do or just kind of putting different things out. I ask is, ever since the high horse closed during the pandemic. Amherst has been lacking a pool hall downtown. Are you thinking that's going to be a serious focus a small focus is just something you're kind of trying out. Yeah, no, it's, it's for, it's a very serious focus because we have pool tables in Westfield, and the college kids love it. They're, they're used all the time. Yeah, it's going to be, and I wanted to, like, along with the pool table is that space that we have where we we've removed some walls. I believe it's in a lot of the, you know, kind of updated paperwork that we sent over the that was that whole purpose was to open it up. Give more room to maybe put some arcade games in as well. I understand quarters and Hadley does something similar but I wanted to be geared towards more having pool tables, maybe a couple games but like definitely at least two to three pool tables. Wonderful. Great, Kelly. Question is, I mean you're used to college students being in Westfield. Do you have a scanning software that you use. I know. How far locations. Yes, so it's a scanner is it's able to get all 50 states. You do have to keep updating the software and you have to export a lot of those scans I could say if you, you, it gives you the power to SOS someone if they've, you know, if they were causing a problem. There's a fight. I don't I don't have any tolerance I, you know, if you get into a fight and you caused it, you are your band and drugs, your band and your trespass. So now the police know if we do have fights, you know, we will we contact the police as soon as we have an issue in Westfield. So I was going to kind of bring those, you know, bring that kind of my mentality to Amherst to really combat the, just, you know, the bad apples out there. And, you know, I want to have a safe safety is the biggest thing. I want to have a, you know, a fun safe atmosphere for all the customers to enjoy, you know, not have to, you know, be worried about, you know, anyone that's, you know, sketchy people or, you know, something like someone someone given somebody else a hard time. You know, we really, we really try to nip a lot of that stuff in the button. And I have very, very low patience for people that, you know, want to cause a problem and, you know, so. Right. Yes, Gaston. So quick question. I'm just curious. I saw you have ping pong in Westfield is wondering any chance you're going to have room, you think you'll have room for ping pong. So what we do we have, I might, I was actually just thinking about that, if we can bring in Westfield, we have to call it water pong. Yeah, because the implement the implementation of it saying, like calling it beer pong. Yeah, that liquor commission, you know, as I said, it's, you know, it kind of brings on the light of it being a heavy drinking game. We don't want to like over, we don't want to press that. Oh, you have to get drunk in this game. I hear you. You know what I mean. So that we'll bring we'll definitely have a few, you know, some pong tables that cups, fill them with water. That's normally what we do and the kids love it. I guess related to that and maybe also a question for for for Reese. I'm just wondering what what practices or insights have you developed about identifying when it's time to cut someone off. Yeah, so I can give you kind of the rundown as far as our protocol that we follow at the bar. Um, so we are tip certified in order to be able to establish based on body language speech, etc. To determine whether or not somebody is at their limit. We also have a system as far as tabs are concerned our POS systems, we can see all of the sales and especially if they open a tab we can see everything that has been put on their tab that is something that we also take into account. So, we have a full system of if we trust each other if one person decides that if that somebody has reached their limit, we are all in agreement we also work with the security team. Once that has happened once they're cut off they are asked to leave the bar. We do not allow them to stay just so that there is no mistake in them going to another server, getting another drink, or having somebody purchase one for them. So we are very strict in a sense of the order in which we go about that and make sure that they are taking care of accordingly. Thank you. Thanks. Any other questions. You are aware we have an our regulations sort of like a little snack law where if alcohol is being served some kind of food has to be available for the patrons so I don't know if you're planning on keeping your kitchen open or having some snacks around. Yes. Yeah, we, we have a full size kitchen. Right now, to start out, our menu is going to be very simple basic things like hamburgers. Probably long dogs, a lot of appetizers like fried, you know, wings and things like that. Okay, great. Wonderful. Any other questions. Yeah, could you please just clarify did you say 2pm to 1am every day or just certain days. So right now we have it 2pm to 1am every day. We'll see how, you know, how those nights go and, you know, we have nights that are more successful than others. If it's, you know, if we run into an issue where, you know, one, you know, a specific day like a lot of places in Westfield in this area are closed on Mondays. With the exception of some of the later opening bars like myself I open at 8pm up here. But I right now I want to stay at 2pm to 1am every day just to just so I know, you know, you know what kind of just feel out what what works in that area for hours. Is, would you want to be able to be open later on on Fridays or Saturdays or is 1am your choice your chosen close. Yeah, that's because my understanding is that it's the enamors it's the required closing time so I, you know, we'll, we'll definitely stay open, you know, we'll we usually what we do in Westfield. It's 2am, but we call last call maybe around 115 120 in that range. And then music stops at 130. And everyone, you know, we start, you know, that gives people time to finish their drinks and leave before because we can't have a single person in their past to that doesn't work there. So, or isn't working. And I would apply that same concept to Amherst as well. So it'd be 1230 instead of 130. Okay. Great. Thanks. Any other questions. If not, is there a motion to approve the license. So moved. So moved. Sorry, Doug beat you to it Dylan do you want to do the second. You get the second. Any further discussion. If there is none, we'll take a vote. Gaston. Hi. Doug. Hi. Ali. Hi. Dylan. Hi. And I vote I just five to zero. Your license is approved. All right. Thank you very much. Mr. Krauss. I just checked the zoning bylaw. So the license commission doesn't really have a official policy as to closing time, but it's in the zoning bylaw. The zoning bylaw says that alcohol service must. Cannot be continued past 1am. Okay. License commission on our licenses usually says alcohol service has to stop at 1am, but we don't require everybody to be out the door at 1. Okay. Okay. It's on the license exactly what those. The times are, I think you have a certain, maybe half an hour. We can double check, but there's a certain amount of time you have to let people finish their drinks and then clear them out. Okay. So as long as nothing conflicts with the condition, your zoning permit, you could do that. Okay. Yeah, that's my fault. I'm, I'm just, I'm so used to, I've worked in the bar scene. In Westfield for 10 years. So that's. That's all I really understand is like, you know, everyone out by 10. You know, you know, you know, I took that same logic, but I, I appreciate that. We'll, then we will adjust. We'll make sure no one's drinking past one. And then, you know, we will. Go from there then. I don't even think it says that nobody can drink past one. I think it just says you can't serve any new drinks, but I can get in touch with you. There's kind of specific times lined out. So I can get in touch with you and let me, you know, exactly what those are. Thank you. Great. Well, thank you so much for coming in. Thank you. Best of luck. Hope everything goes really well. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Okay. So. Next up we have Aster and pine LLC. Doing business as Aster and pine market 189 North pleasant street. Wine and malt off premises. And someone is here for that. Yes, he is coming in. Okay. Hello. Hello. Hi. Welcome, William. This. Thank you for your application. Would you like to describe your business a little bit? And I apologize. My video is not currently working. So Aster and pine market is going to be a. Just a fun boutique. Wine and beer. Store in downtown Amherst that also sells. Really unique. Like imported and local culinary ingredients and low produce. No, great. Yeah. Fantastic. So any questions about the license? No. Okay. I was going to guest on. Did you have a question? Sure. Thank you. Thank you, William. I'm wondering what your recent businesses have been and. You know, how the vision came together because I guess this is your first business selling alcohol. Yes. I have. 20 years in the hospitality industry. So I've, you know, always been in. You know, businesses that. You know, sell alcohol. This is my first. You know, venture into. You know, being an entrepreneur. And I. Wanted to. Just go into a community that would be really responsive to. You know, this concept and. To be able to pair. My, you know, hospitality, fine dining background. And, you know, really the emphasis on the hospitality. To the retail sector. Excellent. That's great. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks. And the other questions. Yeah. Just say that it's really nice to have some produce available downtown. I think that will make a difference for a lot of people. So. Yeah. Yeah. We've had a lot of feedback and. You know, from a community, you know, I did a lot of, you know, boots on the ground kind of. You know, just talking to people and figuring out. You know, what exactly are, you know, the community is looking for. So I tried to really. Tailor. You know, the concept, you know, to that and understand that there is a, you know, a need that. You know, it's not existing there. And I apparently, I guess there used to be, but. You know, it's such a. You know, up and coming. Area, not. You know, aside from even just the college, like, you know, residential is. Is. You know, thriving. There's new buildings. And, you know, I just saw like. It was kind of like the perfect. Perfect location and the opportunity with the license being available. That it. You know, it was just really exciting. Right. Fantastic. So you're in the old. Richie hair studio. Is that right? Yes. Okay. Right. Okay. Great. Any other questions. About the license. Comments. So I, I guess your, your prime market's not going to be the, the college age students, but you know, college age students are always inventive and many desires of, of purchasing alcohol, even if they're underage. And so I just wonder what protocols and practices you're, you're setting up to address that. That issue. Well, I am. First tips certified. I took the tip certification for the. For the off premise. You know, sale. And. You know, that being said, I'm going to, you know, it's a little bit too early in the. You know, in the development of the project, but I am going to invest in the proper scanning technology. And, you know, be able to make sure everything's logged. There's going to be. Security. You know, cameras in the store. As well as. You know, just, you know, checking everybody's ID and just, you know, just going about it the right way. Okay. Yeah. Great. Thank you. Any other questions? If there are no other questions, is there a motion to approve the license? So moved. Thank you, Doug. Is there a second? I'll second. Thank you, Dylan. Any further discussion about this one? If not, we'll take a vote. Dylan. Hi. Gaston. Hi. Hallie. Hi. Doug. Hi. And I vote, I, that is five to zero. The license is approved. Thank you so much for coming in. Thank you so much. We wish you the very best luck with your business. Sounds great. Have a great evening. You too. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Okay. So next up. Discussion topics. Marijuana regulation. And where did we leave that was, those were going to go to the, the lawyer. Is that correct? Sorry. Just before we move on. Who, who did the motion, the second, the last one there? Oh, sorry. Doug did the motion. Dylan did the second. I'm sorry. I really should just use copy and paste instead of even asking. Um, so we're making an easy for you for like months now. Come on. Um, with, um, with marijuana, I did get in touch with, um, KPU law and they said, I asked them, you know, at this point, it might be helpful just to, to, um, you know, before they do a line by line review, just to send along some, um, some violations. From other communities who have done similar things. I have not heard back from them yet, but they should be sending that along. Um, and so we can kind of take a look and compare and contrast and, um, and then, uh, see what additions we are subtractions. We may want to make and then move along to, to, um, a line by line review of that. So Dylan did have another giraffe today, I believe. Okay. I can share that. Okay. Oh, yeah. It's the same draft. I, uh, sent you last. I should. Argue. Email. To review it, uh, kind of on their own time. So. Everybody have that. Would you like me to share the screen? Um, you could share the screen. I might make it easier. Okay. So Dylan, is this the same from last time or did you, um, Exactly the same. I, um, okay. I just, uh, it's on Google docs and it's a, it's just a technical issue. I couldn't convert it to doc in time. So. I forgot about it. So, but there it is. We'll get it. We'll get it sent out. What are we trying to. Yeah. Are we going to go over this or, um, doesn't anyone have any. We're looking for our suggestions. Or. No, again, I, I just, I just sent that over to Steve. Just so that way he would, he would have it. And we can. Ultimately get it sent out because I know we had talked about last time. You guys wanted to just get a copy of it, just to be able to review it. Okay. Great. Okay. So the same thing that we talked about last time. Um, no, no changes from what I shared screen last time. Okay. And then it's going to go to town council and they're going to get back and then we can kind of go over it. And, um, Is that right, Steve? Yes. So we're going to get some suggestions from KP law, um, just as to. You know, comparable towns and see what their idea is, you know, what their ideas are. We can do some, um, revisions on that. And then we can, um, maybe send it to them for a line by line review and then begin discussion of the town council. Okay. Great. So this is just to see it. Like we have it in this format and we can all access this version of it. Is that correct? Is that what you said? So Dylan, you're sending it to Steve or it's on Google docs. I said to Steve, it's on Google docs. If it's just easier, I can just have Steve. I can share it all to you and make you all editors as well. Uh, which might be easier. Against that for just open meeting law reasons. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, if you can figure out, I wasn't able to, um, to copy any of the texts with the permissions with this Dylan, and I don't have a Google account for work I could use. So if you're just able to send me the text and whatever format, I can put it into a Word document and. Okay. Long to people. Okay. All right. So that's great. So we don't need to go over this right now. All right. Super. So everything is in progress. And do you know when town council might be back with the, their answers, Steve? Um, I did reach out to them right after our last meeting. So this shouldn't be. I wouldn't expect it to be all that much longer, but, um, I don't know. I can follow up with them about that. Okay. Well, I'll just hopefully, by next week, but, um, would be nice. So. Okay. Um, so if that is that former discussion topic. Let's go on to lunch carts and food trucks on pray street. And how has that been going? Steve. So, um, we did have, uh, have a truck attempt to do it on this, uh, past Saturday. It was rooster's roaming Cantina again. It seemed to, um, you know, no problems again. So, um, That is always good news. And, um, I believe we'll be trying it once again on, um, This coming Saturday. Um, after that, I believe the students will leaving. And I don't think business would be very good for them, especially in the dead of winter. So, um, I don't think we're going to do it over the winter, but, um, you know, maybe we can try to do a retrospective of, uh, of how that all went and, um, And, uh, you know, maybe propose to the town council to make that a more permanent program next spring. Sure. That sounds good. That sounds good. Um, Any questions about this? Yes. Um, just, just see if you, you know, Obviously you said, you know, the last time we did it, the last week or so, just one vendor was there. Have we had. Uh, what's the, just. The general sort of taken in regard to folks participating. And we had more than one, or we only had one each time. We have had, um, So rooster's roaming cantina has been there, uh, just about, if not every time, Um, and there's one other person who reached out to me who was interested, but he, um, Did not follow up with an application yet. So I can, I can see if he would be interested for the spring, but he seemed to want to, Want to try to do it as much as possible. Um, so, yeah, No, there hasn't been as much, um, interest as I anticipated. I think part of that might be, you know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, And I think we have a lot of interest as I anticipated. I think part of that might be communication challenges. We did only reach out to, um, People who have been licensed and Amherst in the last couple of years. And, um, we don't have a ton of, um. People who had have come to Amherst, the food truck. So, um, if it becomes a more, uh, More permanent thing next spring, I might reach out to some neighboring towns and see, Um, you know, To try to get their lists and reach out to them and see who may be interested. Um, We did a few licenses this fall. I mean, some of them are, The folks you've mentioned a little bit, But I know we did three or four licenses for food trucks this. This fall, some of them were, were. On, uh, technically North pleasant street, I guess it would be. Um, because that was available to them to start with and, And doing some, some regular business that way. Um, none of them, none of those that were earlier. Um, in the fall or late summer have, have really participated much. Not in, um, in this program. No, um, I know there was one I was speaking to who, um, The hours just didn't work, work for her. Um, you know, Some people really love these hours and want to do them. And some people would rather not. And, um, there was another one who, um, I believe the ice cream one, Um, Kind of already shut her operation down by the time that started rolling. So she wasn't interested. I think that's the only three between that and roosters that, um, Had been approved for other late night service. So. I just have one more question. Sure. Have you heard from brick and mortar businesses about it? Whether positive or negative. So like the spokes right there, They're probably thrilled because they've got. Place for people to go and get some food, but. You know, Garcia's is not far by, you know, And they, they're in competition directly. Have you heard from any of those folks and, And their take on it or their comfort discomfort with it? I really haven't heard much either way from the brick and mortar businesses. I know I had spoken with the bid about it and, um, The bid did not anticipate many, um, conflicts because it is. Very late night and there's not really many, um, Much options for food at that those hours. Um, but no, I've heard no complaints from, from any other brick and mortar businesses. That's good. Thank you. Yeah, that's great. Thanks. Right. So next weekend and, um, And we can look forward to the spring. Um, all right. If there are no other questions about that one, um, annual report. So Steve sent you a copy of the annual report. Just for your interest and review. And, uh, do we need to go over it or. Not really. If you have any questions, I think we put a couple of some things on there. For, um, what to do for next year. So, um, And of course the number one is the marijuana regulation. So anyway, okay. For your information. Um, all right. Should we move on to D Savanna's and Mr. Burger company closures. Yes. So Gaston had reached out to me about this. Um, I have spoken to, um, representatives of those businesses. Um, they have been, um, at least partial common ownership. And, um, they have found, um, somebody, um, I'm not really sure exactly any of the circumstances with why, why they are closing or anything, but I know that they have, um, they are in, um, agreement with a, uh, an experienced restaurant group from out of town who will be, uh, in the state out of town who will be, um, um, purchasing these businesses. And I think with some, um, minor modifications continuing along with them. So they are working on applications and ideally will. They, the next one will be up and running by February 1st. Is it the same business purchasing them both? Yes. Okay. That's that timeframe is much, uh, sooner than what was communicated about the burger company by the. Uh, pastor current owner. Uh, when was that? I, in the, the, like the posts, this, the posts that they had just before they were closing, it seemed like, you know, maybe in a year, they'd be back. But I mean, this, it's good news if, if they're going to turn it around that quickly. Yeah, that is really nice. But what, uh, that's, that's what they conveyed to you. Yes. We were, we were focusing more on Savannah's. That seemed like they, uh, a higher priority for them, but I believe that's what's going to be going on with, um, with both businesses. So I guess we will, um, know for sure. Once they submit an application, they are hoping to get on the agenda for the 28th, um, which, um, I knew we were hoping was just going to be a quick renewal meeting, but, um, the board does have obligations to hear, uh, applications within a certain timeframe. So, um, but again, you're referring to the new application for the Savannah's. I believe they are trying to transfer, but, um, transfer the Savannah's. Yeah. So that's, I know, I believe we spoke about both of them. Um, okay, certainly we're talking about Savannah's. Um, well, I think my understanding. If you can just request that they be prepared to address the burger company as well. In the, in conversation with us at the meeting. Um, yeah, for renewal. Yeah. For, you know, for status, you know, what's, what's actually, I mean, you can't renew a license for a business that's closed. Right. Well, yeah, I mean, we have protocol coming. I mean, they're going to have to renew. Oh, no, no. Yeah. Yeah. The licensing authority may deny renewal for that. They're not, you're not obligated to. Okay. Yeah. So we, we, we, we may, and, and I guess subject to what we learn about the plans. Um, the, um, yeah, I mean, I, we just need to know what the plans are because a licensee doesn't have a right to indefinitely hope for the best. All right. Well, I will, um, communicate that with them and they can maybe make a statement for renewal. Okay. Uh, Hallie and then Doug actually Doug's hand was up before mine. So he can go ahead. Doug. So I'm just speaking of Savannah's. So they're looking to transfer, but then there's also an immediate renewal. So is it a transfer in renewal? Uh, you can't combine those, you can't combine those transactions. Right. Right. Both. Yeah. But I mean, you know, are they hoping to execute the transfer first, then execute the renewal, which would be literally like the next day because it's the 28th of December and ends on the 31st. Yeah. Um, I, it seems like it's a developing situation. So I, I don't want to really speculate too much. I will ask the, um, the representative to try to get you guys some more information for next week. Yeah. The thing I think about is that, you know, it's just timing up within the year and, and, and making sure like procedurally, they have the right things because I hate form to like transfer the license and then it expire and then they got renewed from scratch and it causes them an extra set of fees with the state even, um, separate from us, but so, you know, even with the state and ABCC, we want them to not get caught in this sort of weird window between the end of the calendar year and the start of the new one. Just curious. Yeah. Never a, never an easy time to do something like this this time of year, but I will, um, I mean, I, I think it's developing. I spoke to the representative last week and, um, uh, yeah, I think it's a developing situation. So I will, um, get in touch with them and make sure they're considering all these. Steve, is it the case that neither of the two license types are at quota or only the Savannah's one? They are definitely both not a quota. Yeah. Yeah. So that, that, that certainly weighs into the mistakes of. Right. We had like a similar conversation about the oyster bar a couple of meetings back, didn't we? Cause they've been sitting on that license for two years. And I have not, it was 2021, right? Yeah. I believe so. Yeah. They know they did have it this entire year. Yeah. They made a, um, uh, some, some representations as to the difficulties they've been having, uh, getting open on their renewal form. So. Okay. I will make sure to include any, um, any specific renewal forms that are, uh, have, have notes on them like that for your review. Okay. I generally take it you guys are fine if I don't send along each form for the, the normal renewals, but I will, I will send along any that have notes on them. Yeah. Totally fine. Thank you. Okay. Anything, any other questions about Savannah's and Amherst, Burger Co. Oh yeah, Hallie, go ahead. I just was going to ask Steve, and maybe it's more a question for. What happened to the businesses or if they have feedback on town licensing or just doing business in the town in general? Cause those were to fairly experienced restaurant owners. Not the burger company. True. Barry Roberts. Is it part of the town, but they had trouble. But Savannah's was the Dolly family. The Jolly's Jolly family. Yeah. We had. We had a couple of them. We had a couple of them. family, the Jollies, Jolly family. Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't have any. I don't have any insight on that, but I can certainly ask Gabrielle if they're looking for a state of the market, I guess. Okay, great. So moving on. We can go to liquor law complaint, Steve. Yes. So I received an anonymous complaint from a anonymous email provider. It is attached. I don't have any more information than that, but I will forward along to the board's enforcement arm, APD. Okay. And I don't know if there's anything else. Sometimes these anonymous forms are disgruntled, somebodies, unfortunately. Yeah. Hey, Steve, was there an ABCC complaint about one of those places? Am I remembering? I don't believe there has been. There was one for the spoke maybe a year ago. Yeah, I believe that was appealed and I think he may have prevailed, but I don't remember off the top of my head. Okay. Alright, just curious. So I think usually he's very careful. Yeah, that was an odd complaint from them. Yes. Yeah. So two questions. First, yeah, in terms of procedure on this one, we let APB know, APD know, but where do they go from here? They just, they take it and do something with it? Do they get in touch with the business owners? What's the procedure? I don't know exactly what they would do for a complaint like this, but I can ask them. Okay. And then on RN, maybe this is something we should think about when it comes to, you know, getting these types of complaints. I mean, yeah, an anonymous complaint, I understand it, but at the same time, yeah, it's hard to say when it's an anonymous complaint just saying some doorman there is just letting people in. I could believe it, 100% believe it, but it's kind of hard to go off of. Do we have or do we want to maybe even start thinking about during the next calendar year, kind of what should be our procedure when we receive these types of complaints? Because I don't think if somebody is going to, you know, come to us and say, Hey, there's this issue that we're just like, Oh, you know, what are we going to do about it? Not a whole lot. Like, I mean, maybe that's the best idea. But, you know, we are just a group of volunteers here, but maybe we should have some type of procedure placed and do something to take it seriously. You know, that is contacting the business owners. I know both the owners of the spoke and stackers. I don't think they have any incentive to sell to people underage. And I think if we were looking to address the problem that might not hurt to reach out to them, but making that say standard procedure, I don't think it's necessarily a good idea either. So something for us to think about. And in this case, you know, would we want to reach out to the business owners and let them know? I mean, it is all public information. They could just see it. So what is the rest of the board think about that? Yeah, I'm not opposed to just thinking about a sort of standard approach to these kinds of things. I mean, I think, you know, one thing to keep in mind is APD has a regular, no, I wouldn't say regular, because I don't know, but they do enforcement. They, you know, sort of use their younger looking officers who are probably not under 21, but look like they could be to do some of that work. They've done that undercover work at times when they have opportunities. So, you know, getting a sense of that. And right now, because we're sitting between police chiefs and, you know, Gabe Ting is serving as the sort of interim chief, I fully appreciate that position. But, you know, how often they can do enforcement, given that they're there in that space, maybe, you know, sort of interesting to know what their general approaches not to give away the dates, they're going to do it. But if they could give us a little sketch of what their, you know, opportunities to do that kind of enforcement. And also, we had, I want to say, almost a year ago, a couple of cases where ABC had come in and done some enforcement. And in the past, they had typically engaged local law enforcement before they did that, whereas we had a couple of cases where they had come in and had, you know, sort of found issues and our law enforcement were unaware they were kind of even in town. So, just sort of, you know, two things there as one is that I think I sort of follow on Dylan's idea, is that, yeah, we should look at what a general approach we might take to this would be. And one other thing would be to connect with the APD on what their sort of general strategy and amount of checking they do. And then just to kind of, the second question is sort of, what's our understanding of the approach ABCC was taking in the last year. So, did we ever get an answer about that? Yeah, I don't think we have. Steve, we've talked about that a little bit. And after that relationship broke down during the pandemic, I think, and then Scott Livingstone retired. You brought it up with Gabe Ting, right, Steve? But haven't heard back. Sorry, I was muted. Yep, Chief Ting did reach out to the ABCC, I believe, twice and didn't did not hear back from them. So, I don't know what else to say with that, but I do know that the ABCC has been doing their enforcement, enforcement sweeps as well. So, right. Okay. So, would the board like me to, or what I hear that is the board requesting that I reach out to those owners for comment on this allegations and then ask Chief Ting to maybe speak on what APD is doing? Yeah, I think that would be, I don't know about reaching out to the owners. Is that maybe it's something that I don't know. Yeah, Gaston, what would you do? Oh, you're muted. That's right. Yeah, I think I have the same kind of instinct that I heard Dylan voice and in the sense that if we get a complaint that we think we're going to take it all seriously, it does seem appropriate to me to let the establishments know. Now, it might make sense to let the police know first in case the police want to do something before, but I think our default should be to share the information. I don't know what people think. I'm just thinking off the top of my head here. Well, I mean, someone could send them an email, we could send an email saying we got this complaint. Sorry, go ahead, Helen. I think sharing is good. I mean, we're trying to be, we oversee them, but we also are trying to be partners and when we want people to come in and share their thoughts and opinions on our regulations and how business is doing, I think if it's a two-way street, that helps everybody. Okay. Quite good jumping as well. I think in this case, too, where it's specifically saying that the claim here is that this is an employee, not the establishment that's doing it. And I think if our goal is to limit underage drinking with trying to coordinate some effort with the APD could take a good amount of time where I think in forming a business owner right away, I think they're on the same page with us if they also want that same goal of limiting underage drinking. And I think that would be, in this case, the fastest, most effective way to eliminate it if it is taking place. Okay. So how do we do that? Steve, do you want to give him a call or? The owners, yeah, I can give them a call. Yeah. Why don't you do that? That's probably better. And then we can go from there. But putting something like this on the agenda to talk about, come up with a policy would probably be a good idea. So why don't we do that? Sounds good. Yeah. Okay. All right. So Steve, do you think it's, should we also send it to the police or just the owners to start with? The police are the licensed commission's enforcement arm. I mean, I don't think they deal with this stuff professionally and certainly don't think they're going to overreact to an anonymous complaint, but it can't hurt for them to know what we heard. Okay. So I guess, however, you send them information like that. If you could please, that would be good. All right. All right. Thank you. Okay. If there's nothing else on this one, then licensing fee review. And I guess we don't have to really get into this too much tonight, but Steve sent around, I think, Gaston, you put those charts together. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for resuscitating them. Yeah. And so this is something we can start reviewing for 2024. Well, what would, if we're going to make a change for next year's fees, are we, is it already too late? Steve, what about that? When was the, you said the budget was going in? Yeah. So that has passed, although the Board of License Commissioners set the kind of the broader fee review, although the Board of License Commissioners is, you know, has its own authority to set fees. So that doesn't really affect the Board. I mean, we are already taking payments for next year's fees, so that wouldn't affect what people are paying for renewal, but it would affect what, you know, new license applications coming in pay. So I wouldn't say there's any particular urgency, but. Okay. Well, maybe we can highlight the kind of discrepancies that caught your attention, Steve, since we're all here to see what people's kind of immediate reactions are. Doug, I think that what Steve highlighted that when we talked about this last was the gap between the wine and malt and the full liquor for, you know, for bars, right? Yes. Bar's restaurants or also for off premises. And then there was a question whether we felt we should go up or down to even out things if we want to even them out. Yeah. What jumped out to me just in terms of discrepancy is just the difference between on premises, all alcohol and wine and malt, which is $2,500, which seems very extreme to me, although I don't really have any preference as to how that's addressed. It just is something that looking at the fee schedule really jumps out to me as extreme. If I could make a quick point. Sorry, I can't raise my hand while I'm driving. Sorry to keep interjecting. But I mean, I think if our fees are being set on the cost of administration, doesn't one cost, in theory, more to administer because we're using, you know, in theory, again, APD to regularly run checks on a bar that you drink at as opposed to maybe a liquor store, wouldn't we think the cost would be more expensive in that case to administer? So that would justify the difference in price. Dylan, what you're saying is that like the sting operation, for example, if we go back to the whole port of thing, depended on the fact that it was an all alcohol license so that the police resources or town resources maybe are, there is a discrepancy that would justify the license discrepancy. Yeah, I think it's my argument. That could be wrong, could be the cost the same to enforce on both, but I just imagine doing enforcement in something like a bar would be more costly than just like a liquor store, like a spirit house kind of place. Well, but these are both on premises. The discrepancy is between on premises, all alcohol, 3,500 and wine and malt on premises only, which is 1,000. Got it, okay. And that would be like, I mean, there's never wine and malt, right, but the White Lion Brewing Company? I don't know if they're full liquor, right? They are a farmer brewery, so they're in a totally different category. And those are only 250. So people are not going to go in there and do shots, like they are, you know, they can't serve anything besides what they make. Right, exactly. Or like, or wine and malt plays can't serve any, like they can't serve, you can't ingest multiple units of hard alcohol and on a wine and mark license, and then potentially wreak havoc on the street, which you could with, you know, in which I think occasionally does happen with an all alcohol on premises. So maybe that is why, but go ahead. Yeah, sorry, Doug? Yeah, I think the other question we want to ask is sort of the internal effort, because, you know, sort of, you know, most of the time, most of the bars and restaurants do a good job. They manage, you know, they don't over serve people, et cetera, et cetera. So, you know, what I'm thinking about is for Steve, when we're talking about sort of the time you spend with applicants and renewals, explaining differences, what they can and can't do, you know, is it much more complicated when you're reviewing an all alcohol with the ABCC stuff versus not? I mean, I don't get the sense they're wildly different workload wise for you, but if you could kind of paint that picture a little bit too, because that's the other sort of cost we incur is Steve's time to sort of manage and communicate with these folks. And so, you know, I kind of get the sense they're very similar, you know, because the distinction's significant, but happens at the facility. The actual things we have to tell them are probably very, very similar. But Steve, if you could kind of speak to that a little bit, that'd be great to understand. No, between why I'm all alcohol, I pretty much just click a different button. You know, there might be more questions and guidance that comes up with a kind of, you know, really bar type establishment. And then, you know, it's trying to be open late nights and then one that's just kind of daytime, but that could really apply to either license type. And even then, not particularly significant for me. So, how would we find out about police enforcement costs of a wine and malt on premises versus an all alcohol? Can you just ask, like you just ask them and see? Well, I mean, I could, I guess it depends if you're, we're looking at first or second order effects. I mean, you know, you could compare calls to the site, but that might not necessarily pick up people who left there. Right. And yeah, I don't know. I mean, I would presume that it's kosher to set these at different places, because that's how it has been done from Gaston's research seems it's how it's done in pretty much every other town. But yeah, what exactly to set that at? I don't know if we really, I think any, I don't know if there would be any methodology of determining those kind of second order costs that would be accurate. Okay. Okay. So what do we want to do next about this? Hard to get too excited. I can ask KP Law if they have any guidance on what other towns do to set these fees? I mean, I'll tell you what the thought process that went through my mind before I said it's hard to get excited is one, I'm reluctant to recommend raising fees when we're, you know, still trying to attract businesses and be friendly to businesses. Right. Reluctant to lower fees because it hasn't been an issue. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, you have to bore just once to table it and say we're good at what we have. That's perfectly fine with me. Yeah. Does that sound good? Yeah. I think we have bigger cantalumns trying to raise somebody's lower somebody else's. Yeah. Look, we eliminated the coin operation fee because that was old and outdated. We got something done with these. Okay. Well, let's just put it aside, I guess. And then we could just recommend tripling and see what reaction we get. Right. But really get some public input. They should send the increase to Venmo Gaston de los Reyes. Okay. All right. Well, so much for that one. To be revisited in the future. And that brings us to G, upcoming meetings and agendas. So I guess our next meeting is, what, the 28th? Is that right? Or is that... Oh, no. Are we meeting on the 21st? We are planning to meet next week, I believe, and then the 28th, if that works for me. Oh, okay. The 14th. All right. So we're meeting the 14th and then we're meeting the 28th. And I suppose we'll put marijuana regulation, maybe a last review of the last weekend of the lunch cart and food trucks on Prey Street. Oh, you won't have that by next week, will you? Yes, you will. We don't need annual report, maybe an update on Savannah's and the Berger company closures. Yeah, I can ask the representative to clarify what is going on for renewal. Okay. And then see if there is any response from the business for the liquor law complaint. And anything else? When do we start? And how are you, how are the renewals going? They are coming in at a good clip. Okay. Very busy, but what I will try to do is, it takes a lot longer to put the money on the agenda than you would think. But I will try to cram as many of them onto the agenda for next week as possible and get those out of the way. And whatever stragglers we have, we will put them on for the 28th. We do also have the Savannah's and at least Savannah's, maybe Berger co, seem they seem to be very motivated to move forward quickly. So that will likely be in the 28th. Garcia's has submitted the change of manager requests. And I did need to send it back for some changes, but they could possibly be on next week or maybe the meeting afterwards. So. Okay, super. Fantastic. And then, great. And then we'll have the 28th. Okay. So we'll be here next week at five. Topics not anticipated 48 hours prior to the meeting. Any topics? I just wanted to chime in one more time. I think I was losing reception there when we were talking about upcoming meetings, the agendas, the, I don't know what you guys would think potentially going forward a little bit here in the future. We were to start doing meetings at like 536. That way I would be able to get home settled in and not be driving when we do meetings. What do you guys think of that? Okay. Let me let me let me talk. What do you guys think about that? 536? Does that matter? I think I can do it. Okay. Yeah. I think I can do it to get you can get on. Yeah. Is it like 536 or 530 or six or six? Yeah. I mean, I guess if it's, if they're the same, I'd probably go with the earlier one, but I'm, yeah, I'm flexible enough. I'm going to start having one Thursday a month at busy at 7pm, I think. Okay. So we're going to do 530. So next week, 530 Dylan, will that give you time? Yes, that would be fantastic. Okay. Great. Any other topics not anticipated? All right. If not, is there a motion to adjourn? So moved. Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Thank you, Dylan. We'll take a vote, Pally. Yes, I'm sorry. I'm just changing that to my calendar right now. A guest on? Hi. Dylan? Hi. Doug? Hi. And I vote aye. That is five to zero. We're adjourned at 6.07pm. Okay. Great, everybody. Thank you. Thank you so much, Steve, and see you next week. Thank you, everybody. Have a nice night. Thank you, Steve.