 Check check check check check check check That was the same day I'll tell you about maybe 50 minutes or so. Yeah. That's pretty short. They're kind of important because we've got public officials speaking. Who was recording that? So that's on the web now? Yeah. So if you know the date, you go to cctv.org. Right. You just put the date in and there's only a couple events that day. Oh, I see. That's the shortcut because it's hard to find. Yeah. I'll send the link to the organizers. Oh, I talked to them about it. Oh, good. And I said to them, you can see I wasn't invited. So I really called ahead, you know, the last minute and I said, and they said, sure. But so I told them, I said, you know, a young tour, the first thing you should do when you get into a city is find the cable access television, the public access television station and say, you know, we're doing this thing. Could you please record it in broadcast? That is a good idea. So whenever you do something, I'm not saying they would do it. But that would magnify the audience. By many, many times. Because a lot of people watch cable. I don't have a TV. I don't watch anything. But I can see it on the computer. You know, far, far more people see it on their personal computer than what I'm telling you. Right. This media here is probably, there's probably three, three or four hundred people that will watch it. And there's probably a thousand more that will see pieces of it on television on channel 17. So I mean, it's hard to watch the whole thing I'm telling you. How many of you know how many people watch it? There's a way to know with the computer, but not with the TV. Oh, with the computer. Because they get it streamed. So you take the computer and you fix it. At least that. That's cool. You know, you don't actually have to call the station to ask how many people saw it. A lot of people on the computer, you can actually do that from home. I've never done it, but you can do that from home. And say, how many people watch this event? Up to this moment. Because you can watch it for a hundred years. Because they're all out of it. Yeah, they're all out of it. Pardon? I'm on a lot of them. I've been here expecting a long meeting. It's my dad's George. How are you doing, sir? Good to see you. See you as well. So, let's plan out. I don't think, I don't know how much you're talking about. They don't visit for what, the whole thing? Probably comments, the full meeting starts. So you did send me an answer about what I did. But I haven't thought about it. It appears as though we're the FAA, unless you are an owner or sponsor of an airport, that you cannot, we will not turn under current statute definition. It appears as though the only entities that can apply are those that are your airport homeowners. And under the IP, there has to be an active airport improvement program. Yeah, yeah. Now, you know there is one because they're applying for an NCP. I know it's a compatibility program. So you have to have, there has to be an active AIP where the FAA has earmarked monies yet to be determined in preparation for an NCP, the noise compatibility program. It is a noise compatibility program submitted to the airport with regards to what the airport wants to do under that noise compatibility program, requesting a chunk of money which may or may not be totally granted. It may be granted in part but not in whole because the way airports work, right, is each region has a bucket of money and those regions collectively put together a budget across the country which then goes before the legislature for approval. When the legislature, the U.S. Congress, right, and Senate approves that, then those monies are dispersed to the regions. And then, so we in the Northeast region, right, you know, you're looking at Boston, you're looking at LaGuardia, you're looking at, you know, all those other airports they're all competing for that bucket of money. So depending upon where the airports are and their master plan, where they are in terms of the noise exposure map, where they are and where the NCP will determine what AIP or P's, AIP, right, will become eligible for grants and then those monies are then dispersed. So this is really good information. So there's two things that come out of LaGuardia, South Florida. We don't need to add to this. We don't need to add to the last page anything about South Florida and France because we don't need another one. We wouldn't have the right ads written as statuaries. But I just want to say that I was thinking that you had something to do with it. So there's no need for that. Okay, now the other thing is that, you know, they might want to install a new home to enroll in and they don't need to install a new home to enroll in. So that's why we want to have a source of money. Incorrect. You said himself, you were at that meeting when you said himself said the preferred method for noise mitigation around airports is land acquisition. And demolition. And demolition. Roger that. Yeah. You heard that. So good. Because, you know, some people, I don't know, they should have hit you right there. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. So this is okay. I was thinking I was going to go into that. I'm not sure if there's something else. Providing more and more sand with what before it's already in the water program. Is it good to use plants, right? No. They're ineffective. They're ineffective. Plants and trees are totally ineffective. That has been studied by the Academy of Sciences for the last two decades. Sound mitigation walls that are truly engineered for either absorption or reflection. Yeah. And correct. Because you can only do three things. You can only do three things to sound. You can reflect it. You can absorb it. Or you can diffuse it. Diffusion, right? You can reflect it. Can you hear me now? Right? One of those things that it doesn't give you on. Absorption is basically talking into an antibiotic room, which sucks all the sound up. Diffusion is where you have certain physical genetic properties of a panel that purposefully change how sound hits them, such that it interferes with them either at an eighth, a quarter, or half a wavelength, so that when they do bounce off, they actually cancel each other out. Kind of start to do that. Yeah. And you're right. It's an inform of interference. Exactly. Exactly. So it comes in a... Right. So that's why you have narrow spectrum and broad spectrum diffusion. So depending upon... Maybe your point of view is pretty narrow. Sorry. Maybe your point of view is 16 minutes. So the point of view... Well, you have to look at the audio spectrum and the examination of the audio spectrum shows that more than one-half of the total energy expended from roughly 60 to 20k, 20,000 kHz, okay, is within the 60 to about the 6k region. Yeah, that's where we hear it. And that's where we hear it, because the noise coming out of aircraft is bimodal. It's in the low frequencies, not the mid-range, and then the highs. So it's contained mostly between 80 and about, and then I want to say about 800, right? And then after that, it's nominal. And then the next blip, if you were to look at an audio spectrum, starts at around 2k, up to about 4, and it will live to 60. Okay, so what we need to do is... Yep. Just to get to the chase. Yep. We don't want to say that the we don't want to live with it. Well, I would say providing one or more sound mitigation devices. No, I want these walls and verms, because that's what... Well, I know that's what she likes. So I want to definitely have that in here. Okay, all right. Because one of the other things that before I came here, I don't know how to say this. I don't know how to say this. Yeah, providing some measuring equipment. Right. The only thing I did here was I generalized it. It said sound insulating the Chamberlain School. Here, public schools and other public slash municipal buildings. Do you know why? Yeah. Because the summing up of that building... You know where the landfill is? Yeah. That is inundated with all kinds of got an address from the 16th state office. So you've got people working there in office spaces. Okay. During the day... Okay. Sound insulation moves in other structures? Probably. Generally, I say. Sound insulation moves in other structures. It moves in the designated by the city of Rome town or the United States Air Force. There, you probably would need to what the noise zones are. And there, you could reference the FAA's document that basically states 65 dB A weighted DNL or greater. The noise... Okay. Actually, California uses 60 because if you take... Yeah. Because if you take the formula that generates the day night level or the DNL, okay? Yeah. And you back calculate it and you use 60 dB. And when you back calculate that to LAB 24, it amounts to 60. If you put 65 in there, if you put 65 in there, okay, it's greater than that. And the noise control act of 1972 basically states that anyone that's exposed to 55 dB A weighted LAB 24 or greater. Okay. You graduated to a dense sky seat and I'm impressed. What is that thing? Yeah, it was charged. So California being... That's what like this would be. You could... We're going to... That's the community level. It's not there. It's very similar to... Except our threshold is not going to be 65. Well, I've been trying to... What are those numbers in? Some of those, right? It comes out to 60 and the day weighted DNL is 65. So mostly across the country and except for those that are forced to waste... Yeah. Everyone uses 65. Those... To who's the decided on that? California. Because they sued in court and the court recognized at least there were some smart judges out there that still do math. They recognized the fact that the formula is coincidic with the noise control act of 1972. So therefore, we won't accept 65 or accept 60 because when you back calculate it goes to 55.2 or 55.3 which is LAB 24, which is exactly what the noise control act of 1972 and 1974 states becomes a new... Well, it's a new... It's actually taking the property because you can no longer go outside and enjoy your land. The same act, 72, the noise control act also said that any noise greater than 90 dBV a weighted LAB 24 is pollution because it causes permanent ear damage. And from that whole entire act stemmed whole new legislation for ocean and noise inside of workshops and things of that nature. When you had to wear hearing protection and when you had to have similar dosometers which are used for x-ray those shops actually... machine shops actually have to have a 24 hour metering device that meters or measures the average sound and it is LAB level of average in the shop. This is the 90 dBV that's a denation of pollution that's something more consequential because of other legislation called by that pollution. It's based... the noise control act named 72 was from the EPA It was from the EPA Yeah. So it was 90 dBV It's natural. It's federal law. Under the United States Code and what's the... what's the promulgation from that? It's USC and from that is what? Yes. That's where the road needs to go. How do you? So I have something... Hey Charlie, how are you? I'm not... It is really huge. What's that? The fact is the fact remained right and I would still have a strong service. I'm sorry I missed that meeting but I just thought it was happening. It was an oversight I mean when you have... I do have cross-states and then we also have joint... you know and so I think but I will recommend that we have cross-states and then they enjoy the same culture in the school so you can build a conversation about the municipality that owns an office and an airport in a power jurisdiction. But it belongs well it doesn't make sense to be in a home and born there. There's more middle-ratch and we have the framers who identify airports and that means the municipality would not have one that was fully located and it did not have I think the and there are our so this proposal I mean I didn't talk to the board that some of the power that keeps that because your discussion seems very... but it doesn't create that I've got copies of it not good well they decided not to do a false treatment today because they just catch my breath because they may have pneumonia which is causing my breathing to drop so about the O2 in case about it what would you do yeah right I talked to Charlie about staying here okay thank you for breath you what oh you did would you mind grabbing Mia agenda I help thank you yeah you know what I went with a friend of mine about six or eight weeks ago and then they took her into this little room to tell her she needed to have a biopsy done and Dr. Oppenheimer and another he was very good but he also had said to me that he was convinced I had breast cancer and then they did the biopsy and I mean that was going back a couple of years ago wasn't it well the stuff I had they took out anyway because I said I don't care if it isn't I don't want it there anyway that was a terrible thing to say to them but they did but that was the one that was eight years ago and then the thing came back last fall so I had the same surgeon did the same thing he said it's the same result he said I wouldn't even do it if I were you and I said you shouldn't be there I don't want it and I said I'm not doing that so but I thought they handled it well I was impressed they are very nice well my friend because Dr. Rothenheimer said do you have a surgeon you'd like if it is and she said I don't know and I said well I had Dr. Rowland do that stuff on me and he was great because I don't think I've got something so happy I think he's yeah right I'll find my notes oh well that's good I have a page that's your notes this is so I would like to call to order the South Burlington City Council meeting of Monday, August 7th and we'll begin by saluting the flag and item number two is instructions on exiting the building in case of an emergency case we have an emergency this evening so there are two ways to get out of the room back doors or the front doors leading out on the front lawn and the two back here that go out into the parking lot if any emergency occurs please leave the building and exit into the parking lot and gather there Tom and I will be responsible for making sure the rest of the building is clear thank you great thank you and oh I'm sorry is this a possible are we going to go into executive session to discuss settlement oh this is July 5th excuse me I got the wrong I'm sorry comments and questions from the public no I'm sorry agenda review, additions, deletions or changes in the order of agenda items does anyone have any I've got one item to bring up on scheduling for the other business section if that is okay sure so that would be okay all righty then we'll move on to item 4 comments and questions from the public not related to the agenda and Jimmy and George would like to both come up welcome and please state your names for the record James Lease George Milley so the two of us have prepared and we've given each member of the council and Kevin copies of this document that includes amendments to Vermont state law and a draft amendment to the South Burlington City Charter and it's basically what we did as far as the state law is we cut and pasted five VSA 601 to 608 and then 651 to 655 and then we added in the underlining is all that's new everything else is a part of state law okay and so you'll find for example 605 that we're adding this idea that 605 is citing a new airport which doesn't apply to us but we still amended it so that if somebody's going to cite a new airport in another city some city says let's go to a neighboring city and put an airport they have to get the approval of the city council of that city so in each case we're adding pretty much the same language that the legislative body of the municipality in which the airport or landing field is located now has to be part of the decision making and that would also apply for example in 606 for expenses except in this case it's the annual meeting of the voters it's not the city council in that case it's the whole city that gets to vote for such things as the airport budget yeah the airport budget which now Burlington is the only city that votes on the airport budget the whole city as part of their town meeting everybody gets to vote to approve the budget including the airport budget well this would mean that south Burlington would also get to approve the airport budget or disapprove it if we didn't like something so we would have a real say on that can I ask you is that a separate item in the city of Burlington some so it potentially could be voted down while the rest of the city's budget is approved I happen to have a copy of the budget and this is what the airport portion of the of the Burlington budget looks like it's about 20 pages of a spreadsheet but it's a separate item on the ballot right oh I think it is yes because it says so in state law that they have to resident of Burlington who's disagreeing with these statements but maybe that's a discussion item for another time okay we vote on our city budget not the city budget I'm interested it's bizarre it's bizarre but that's the way it is so maybe they're not acting in concert with state law on this we'll see we'll check into it in general madam chair if you take a look at title 5 in chapter 15 and you look at the provisions thereof that Jim and I tried to amend it's basically associated with municipal airports and either the joint acquisition and operation as well as the resolution by joint committee to include any of the details of the resolution and then of course the extension of boundaries, abandonment and the location and the changes really that we started to affect we're in 605 where basically recognize the fact that airports can span state boundaries it recognize that airports span state boundaries it also recognize the fact that airports can span municipal boundaries okay but what was absent was when the occurrence of one municipality owning an airport into another that was absent and I don't believe the framers really intended for that in their recognition the fact that it can span other political subdivisions they just didn't address it and it wasn't purposeful I think it was in fact an oversight and in doing so with the language that Jim and I added okay which basically was based on airport location what it does is it now provides south Burlington to enjoy the same provisions under law with regards to airport operations expansion and all the governance associated with that airport the exclusion from that is the applying for grants because right now the way it is written in the FAA rules and regulations you must be on airport operator or sponsor right we are not at least at this time going to pursue change of federal law but it most certainly is feasible to entertain having our legislator legislation entertain change of statutory law which would give us basically the the authority if you will or the presence at the table to be a participant in airport governance and put that in the hands if you will of our governing body you folks to include if one is to go through the one of the provisions in here where it basically states that a budget or any expense associated with the expansion improvements equipment or maintenance of an airport shall be addressed in a special meeting or a regular regular annual meeting where the majority of the voters have the opportunity to vote on that expense well in our case we never had that opportunity because that was always that was always in the hands of the Burlington voters whether it be through their representatives or at the ballot box so we never had that now this provision is vital to meet the terms of the Vermont Constitution which was brought up at the previous two weeks ago at the city council meeting by Megan where we are supposed to have a government that's accountable to the people and yet the government that's really has super influence in the airport neighborhood is Burlington through the airport and all of the problems the airport creates for people in that neighborhood for their children and for their families and for everything so we have an accountability problem as pointed out in his resolution as well there's a serious accountability problem and there's that word in your resolution so this would address that by giving Burlington the authority to participate in making decisions along with did I say Burlington? to give South Burlington the authority along with Burlington so both cities have to make the decisions even with respect to grants we would have the authority to approve the grant, to accept the grant we wouldn't have the ability to apply for a grant but we would have the ability to accept a grant so if Burlington decides to apply for a grant that would hurt South Burlington and maybe you know of some grants they might have applied for that caused affordable housing to be demolished here we would have this city council would have the authority to approve or disapprove of that when you have multiple municipalities voting on a budget or a submitting a grant proposal what happens when one says yay and the other says nay? it depends upon the language I think of either the governing bodies charter or some inter-unicipal agreement or whatever or the language in this case of the statutory law which our amendment basically declares that in the case of voting here would require majority by each municipality where the airport is located so since the airport is located in South Burlington Burlington owns the airport they may in fact apply for the grant and form a budget however in order for the grant to be approved or the budget to be approved each of the majority of the voters of each municipality would have to agree on the majority of the voters from each municipality we don't get a majority of voters going to the polls majority of those that go majority that show up that that's how you'd get a yay I do have one question does this affect private airports? no since it's under municipal it does not because the title is aeronautics and service transportation generally the chapter is airports and air navigation facilities and the sub chapter is municipal I understand sorry but there are individuals that own private airports and that is correct okay so now we will go on to the charter amendment and I have some introductory material it's a second to the last page is some introductory material and italics that's not part of the amendment that's just explanation of why we're doing this for your benefit and basically it also has to do with accountability so that because as the Board of Health and Burlington's own Board of Health issued a document that they voted on and approved and it lists the health effects hearing loss, stress, sleep disturbance, heart attacks hypertension and stroke, delayed reading and verbal comprehension that's the children and then they said you know what Burlington Board of Health jurisdiction is limited to the city of Burlington and that's the summarized, encapsulates the problem we've had or warned we can't persuade Burlington to consider the problem in south Burlington because as their Board of Health said they don't have jurisdiction here so what they would be sensitive to is expense, cost money, things that now they have a reason to really because that affects their budget and their city but the health effects on the children here they're not it's not their jurisdiction it's really the problem identified by the revolutionaries who created this country and this state of authority you should have the people who are there be rulers over their own destiny you shouldn't have a foreign king or a foreign city having control because you get these anomalous problems so what we are on the last page is the addition to the city charter the proposed addition that's why it's all underlined and it would basically we would be on the right or we would have the authority through the city council to impose the similar fees to what Burlington is already applying at the airport Burlington generates $19 million every year by applying fees for things like that's 2.4 million landing, it's about 2 million car parking is almost 6 million car rental is about 2 million it's about half a million they also apply other fees and so it adds up to 19 million for rent one of the biggest ones is rent in the terminal building and other places and we would use the same rules to create any other ordinance that's what B says it would be by the city council enacting an ordinance along the same lines of enacting any other kind of ordinance section 106-109 of the chapter of our city charter and then the fees must be used for airport purposes they can't be used for general city purposes you can't extract money from the airport and use it for something else but airport purposes definitely includes protecting in the words protecting the people in the neighborhood and that's both recognized by the FAA and by federal regulation the federal regulation says that the passenger facility charge that's the employment fee can be used for reducing the impact of aviation noise on people living near the airport and that's in a federal regulation that's one of about 8 items that can be used for but that is one of them that's right that's only one of the items but for us it would be the only one but for the airport they can use it for a whole range of airport purposes like they're using it now for the new apron outside I forget why they call it an apron they'll also be using some of the funds too with the grant that they had received to move the taxiway over another 100 feet I think they're going to buy more snow removal equipment as another thing that they're using it for but we would only use it for the purpose the four purposes listed here for mitigating sound insulating shambles in school insulating homes and other buildings in the noise zone providing sound deflecting it also could be sound absorbing I wanted to add that word walls or berms and for providing as Tim Barrett suggested a couple of weeks ago sound measuring equipment in throughout the neighborhood that would be connected to the internet so everybody could see just how loud these planes are near their houses then I think as the city manager mentioned two weeks ago it would have to go to a vote by the voters and then it would have to go to the legislature for approval of a charter amendment and so those are the steps that would have to be shall we all have a copy including Councillor Barrett of this he'll be appearing here shortly I can give him one the only difference is I highlighted the word things were underlined okay you can okay okay any other questions any questions have you had any discussion with our charter committee chair not at this time the appropriate well that's the process I would have have the charter committee if the council agreed that this was a process we wanted, concepts that we wanted to have the charter committee review and that's one of the reasons why we brought this forth first to socialize it or get it distributed okay for your review and consideration and then next to see if we could allow taking further action on it so we could get it before a charter committee as well as having the city attorney take a quick look at the statutory amendments that were made and then from there we could work with our legislative contingent to pursue it in the state house and then you can take action now but I appreciate your work any other comments thoughts thank you very much are there any other comments and questions from the public on items not on the agenda I would just like to note for the record we all got a lovely letter from Leslie and it says Dear Mrs. Reilly and Mr. Dorn on July 29th 2017 I had the pleasure of attending the Mozart Festival in our beautiful veterans memorial park what a thrilling occasion it made me very proud to be a resident of South Burlington I've only lived here for 14 months but I'm reminded regularly how lucky I am to have settled here what made that evening extra special was that I had come with a neighbor and a friend who uses a wheelchair when we arrived early at the concert we were lucky to meet Joe is it Gibo? Gibo? Gibo of your public works department what a wonderful, kind, helpful and compassionate man our town is very lucky to have him in our employ I thought that was a very nice letter and it would be nice to recognize or have, did Joe get a copy of this? oh good well I wanted the public to know that sometimes we get positive feedback not always negative or change alright moving on announcements and the city managers report Tom you want to start? I went to a DRB meeting and the school board meeting at DRB I'd be interested, I know it's open so I'm sensitive to not try to influence any discussions there but I'd love to understand what's going on with Market Street and Mary Street in some of those conversations so sometimes in the future we got a debrief on what Mary Street is looking like what are both phase and long term plan for Mary Street school board didn't stay long, just chatted quickly and also our GMT annual meeting occurred and I was re-elected as the vice chair for the GMT for another year congratulations alright, Megan I didn't attend anything, I did receive numbers though, ridership numbers from Tom I don't know if he forwarded it on to everybody I don't think so, I would love to see them even with Burlington so it's really interesting to see those numbers and I would love to, I just said the fall would be a time when the GMT Mark Seuss has been talking about coming to present before us that would be good and it would be fabulous to have those numbers comparison I hope they don't want to assess us more based on those numbers so I was going to save it for the later session but we are at our annual retreat looking at the municipal assessment equations the algorithms and I am advocating for an ADA assessment that will take into account both origination and destination, right now if the person lives in South Burlington we get assessed for the entire ADA charge if they go to Winooski or Williston so I would like to see that split across municipalities based on where they are coming from and where they go to Is there a way to track that? Yeah, for the ADA it's a pick up and a drop off so we have all that data That isn't just a general ridership ADA is what are additional stuff I know we were paying more than Burlington was for our ADA services I know when they had come in and talked with us and I know we asked that and I think there had been a reduction after that but it still seems I think that we are way out of line with what we pay and rightfully so I think if you would bring back to them that while I believe we were told that more people took advantage of the ADA service versus using the bus that has the ability that could transport a number of those folks and not be on like special call so I think we need to have that cleared up for us here That's right, thank you so Megan I don't have anything to report Well I wanted to say I made one of the two wonderful evenings at the park, bikes and bikes and it was wonderful enjoying the food, the conversation music, the camaraderie and you know hats off to Maggie and her team and how wonderful it is to go and not see all of these cords take down and it's great and I think our decision to help put some permanence to the electrical issues up at the park is going to prove to be fantastic for the city and when it comes up under the other part there was an airport commission meeting that I'll discuss under that I was on vacation but I did go to that bikes and bits and it was great, it was a lovely evening and really good food your daughter was visiting yes I had grandchildren with city managers report I have much to report you're going to be obviously taking up the resolution related to airport governance Tom and I have been asked to attend other communities select boards who are taking this up as well over the next month so I'll be appearing with Tom at a couple more discussions, I think Shelburne Colchester, Williston Wunuski has already passed the resolution that was word for word did we attribute it to them that's what made a joint resolution could I ask one question why it was forwarded to the other communities before we even started the discussion they've seen it, it's a public document they asked for it the affordable housing committee met two weeks ago they're meeting again tomorrow they're working closely with the planning commission on some things that I think will eventually be making it in the LDRs related to affordable housing the joint survey committee I'll be talking about that later in my presentation has met the community coalition on mental health is met again is meeting every two weeks and on Thursday of this week the city managers and many of the chiefs are meeting with secretary go bay from the agency human services to talk about mental health in the central chitlin county area as you may know secretary go bay has been asked to develop solutions, propose solutions to many problems in mental health in the state through act 82 and this is a way for him to find out what's going on with our first responders and he was very good about setting up the meeting our resident Jim leddie was instrumental and he's involved in some of these task forces met with gene richards last week just to catch up on airport related issues one thing I will want to let the council know and I'll shoot you a memo on this there will be a commercial property that the airport is going to in all likelihood acquire over on borough drive that is probably beyond restoration because of its condition it's the former nights of columbus building and they will probably demolish it rather than fixed up terry's been over and it has a lot of problems so gene one of the council and I'm sorry pat you may have well talked about this in your report to know of that given demolition issues and so on but this is a commercial and that's on airport property it will be airport property it's on borough drive so why they would be buying it they would be buying it that was one of the five properties remember that we had the discussion on you want to come back to this we didn't discuss it at the at the meeting I was just clarifying the point gene brought it up with me the other day when we got together we talked about the hotel proposal and so on um city fest is saturday this saturday the 12th and so we hope everybody can attend all members of the public can attend we hope it will be bigger and better even than last year so it's at veterans park and I think fireworks are planned hopefully it's not raining and then also one last thing tomorrow night from five to seven the there will be a master planning party at underwood so council members and residents who are interested in going up and talking about the future uses at underwood are encouraged to go I think they're going to have a food truck up there and parking will be on the south side of Nolan farm road and at overlook park so please come and share your perspective on future uses of underwood that's it great okay so I'm going to try to attend that since I'm interested it's not we don't know how many counselors or various committee members will show up but I think we're okay okay thank you right moving on to the consent agenda I had just but I didn't get in because I couldn't get internet at our camp and one is you misspelled Betty Melitzia's last name it's M-I-L-I not E and then there was another place where it should have been B rather than by sometimes Burlington should be south Burlington that's on page six and page seven I you found them more so than usual or I try not to nitpick well yes we can pass them on are we I would entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda as presented unless someone wants to pull something out someone okay we have a motion and a second any discussion welcome we're voting on the consent agenda so all those in favor signify by saying I any opposed any abstentions that's the question I had the minutes early since I couldn't really get into this I yeah I didn't either okay they were not emailed to you okay okay I'll do that minutes okay all righty moving on to number seven council reports from outside committee board assignments I don't have a meeting so I think Pat you did have your things from and I was looking for the agenda in here actually it was a fairly quick meeting but when it comes down to the part of South Burlington I felt that it was important for even though the airport commission will not vote on anything that I bring before it as far as introduction of the resolution and so on I did bring up that the resolution was being presented that it had been adopted by Winooski and that I wasn't sure how it went to Winooski but I knew that I was told that it was word for word peace on that well it was it was our the one that we've had presented by Tom that was the date of the airport commission meeting was after it was after our meeting and that's what I was looking for and here I'm sorry I thought I thought I put the agenda in my handbag here tonight and I didn't and I've got to get misery and I can give you the date before I leave here but we talked about it was as a matter of fact it was now on channel 17 so and then they showed it about every time I was flipping through right there front and center and Charlie it was a little more up close that's perfectly okay but we did have a I brought forth to them what our intent was with the resolution that we hadn't voted it that there were four items that the city council agreed that we would take on one was to have the have our legislators locally bring some issues forth on the is what was brought up tonight which might require charter change one was on the governance of the airport through the resolution at which point I will interject that we did have and you will see that if you watch it questions as to why are we fixing something that isn't broken and I mentioned that it was going to be revised that we were all asked if we had revisions that we thought were important during the man I mentioned the fact that there was a comment that some should be collapsed because of the length of the resolution and so on but I hadn't received anything at that point differently I offered to give the resolution to them one of the other chair not the chair but one of the other commissioners asked why I was bringing it forth to them since they wouldn't be voting on it and it would be something the city would deal with and I said well I understand that I think it's important for you to know what our feelings are in South Burlington what is coming forth nothing has been adopted yet but that it is on our agenda to come forward as the memorandum of understanding was so I was pretty vocal on it not telling them one way or the other or whatever what our feelings were but that it was something that was going to be discussed okay thank you and they did bring up a picture we did get the preview even though I was told it hadn't been presented to South Burlington we did get the preview of the pictures of the proposed airport at least the architects drawing of the airport and where it would be and how it would connect and that was about it and an update on the construction are we going to get a presentation on that on the hotel or is that just go before the DRB I imagine they wouldn't be opposed to coming in and talking about just for general purposes it wouldn't be a regulatory thing it was I have to say it was you know what we were shown was an attractive feature that would look like it would blend in there is right there where it is if you drive by it's quite small it's and I think it would be a hundred and four room hotel boutique type hotel when you drive into the airport it would be on the left and instead of when you drive in from white street or patch and road or whatever well there is only one entrance to the airport when you drive in from the entrance to the airport the parking garage the south end of the parking garage and it would the entrance to the hotel would face you as you were coming in and it really looked very attractive and and then there was I believe and it could have been seven days that ran the piece on it anyway it would there would be a space between the end of the parking garage the south end of the garage but there would be a connection from the hotel so that someone could walk through I'm noticing that it would somehow block the noise right well I was thinking of that too that's another it's another piece every time a piece goes up like that but it looked very attractive and I think something that if you saw the picture of that it would be and the idea for the airport is to make the accommodations easier so that people will stay obviously the travelers and as I mentioned to you before we realized that as part of speaking as a commissioner that the the garage revenues are not enhanced by hotels in the area that for a one night stay give seven nights or whatever accommodation for parking so this would this would help that as well so interesting Mr. Renke I mean it certainly has an impact on some of those hotels so that's a negative I guess for some business people in South Burlington but I was just curious do they have any estimates for the flight attendants and pilots, the crews because now you see them they go to the fair field in and cold chest they go all over the community I think a lot of them and I'm just saying from my experience I think but I think they have contracts with national hotel chains as well so for their you know the different airlines contract with various hotels that's been my understanding from knowing a couple of flight attendants that they really they don't make the choice united tells them united would you know argue of a united subsidiary is there the question I guess really is is that part of the vision for the airport to have those contracts with united and delta well you know most of the ones that fly out if you're a lot are regional airlines that contract with those other larger ones nothing was brought up about that I'm just curious because that's another impact I don't know how many light cruiser are but staying there it certainly helps that airport hotel stay full but you know impact some others but that's why I don't think you're going to see yes I don't think you're going to see you know parents who want to be close to UVM you know necessarily staying there no no I was just thinking of the flight cruise I think they're thinking more in terms of passengers any other comments or questions alright thank you moving on to item 8 consider and possibly take action on the draft city council resolution on climate change and I invite the energy committee representatives or representatives Don Cummings oh wow and Sam Swanson Don Cummings okay please introduce yourself to the tv and share your thoughts thank you good evening my name is Don Cummings I'm a member of the energy committee and I'm Sam Swanson I'm also a member of the energy committee so I notice you have we have two spots on the agenda and I wonder if talking a little bit about what we've been doing prepares what the committee has been doing prepares the discussion for the resolution on the coalition that's fine with me is that okay the council to switch I'll talk about plans okay merging them that makes sense or merge them great so we're all waning with baited breath I think is the expression for an announcement from Georgetown they are still doing the analysis as to who is going to make the finals in the energy prize however we've all along have felt that the experience and the opportunity to participate in the prize was worth doing even without winning so and we've recently come to the conclusion that the results are in fact the prize the results that we're seeing in South Burlington are a good prize as far as we're concerned we recently had at the city had a press conference with green mountain power and efficiency Vermont that announced that we had saved about 6% electrical usage for our residents so that's fairly significant we've been doing an analysis with Vermont gas in terms of residential use and we think it's on the order of 5% reduction in Vermont gas use which is about $300,000 this in the face of what the gas company is seeing as average increases in residential use per count so 5% in the face of otherwise growing use so we think we're at about $750,000 worth of annual savings for our efforts so far and that's simply on the residential usage we're still doing some analysis on municipal usage and we'll see what we get in terms of those results so this money $750,000 is now available for our residents to use for other bills that are important for them to pay putting money away for their retirement, putting away money for their children's education the money that they spend locally instead of spending it in utilities that ultimately the money leaves the state that money stays in our local economy I have to say we've had tremendous help with this with our partners we couldn't have done any of it without the partners Efficiency Vermont was a strong partner Vermont gas Green Mountain Power the other paper who published our stories and advertisements and gave us many free placements the Vermont State Employees Credit Union and Hagan Associates our marketing partner we feel that we've changed the way people behave which is I think really important it's what we were going after it's the hardest thing it's the hardest thing to accomplish it's very hard to accomplish along the way their behaviors about investing in technology may have changed as well thermostats, shower heads hopefully more people are getting the message about weatherizing their homes I think the most important message that we conveyed was that climate change is real and that we each should be doing something about it and each of us are capable of doing things about it it's a question of changing our own personal behaviors to do something about it and I think we've made some headway in this these efforts in the residential area we're accompanied by efforts in our schools and city operations and we feel all of those efforts are a continuation of our journey towards reducing our impact on the climate so with that in mind we'll get to talk about the Vermont Climate Pledge Coalition it's really an extension of what we've been doing on a more or less informal voluntary basis with trying to change the way our community our residents, businesses and municipality relates to energy use and make it a little bit more of a formal process and we're asking that the city join this coalition it's a coalition of many communities excuse me it's intended to be a coalition of many communities includes businesses includes energy providers it includes transportation universities and colleges for example Burton 7th generation GMP these are people in the energy providers for example is a segment of our economy that you might think would be threatened by this very issue but they've joined the coalition realizing that it's necessary so our view is that it's widely recognized that climate change is real it's a multi-dimensional problem it needs to be addressed at all levels there are specific things that various levels of governments can do and be most effective at in their policy decisions and their day-to-day operations clearly our national policies towards energy efficiency standards in automobiles have made dramatic improvements in the reduction of CO2 per mile of a car or a light truck state and local policies shape our renewable energy future state and local operating policies and decisions about what equipment to buy where to spend dollars for capital improvements how we manage our buildings and how we regulate future development these all have a major can have a major impact play a major role in their investments in their activities in reality what it is is each of us is responsible in the various roles that we hold in society either public or private are responsible to change the way we're dealing with energy we've demonstrated this over the last couple of years that this can be done and I think we can take it to a further level down to the decisions that each of us make and the behaviors we exhibit in our various roles in the simplest terms we can turn the lights off when we don't need them and we can turn the heat down when it's not necessary so what is the pledge the pledge is cities and towns and colleges and universities and other organizations pledge to join a coalition to cut carbon emissions the Paris Agreement pledge of 26 to 28% reduction from 2005 by the year 2025 these are voluntary targets by community they're attempting to reach what the national commitment was at the Paris Accord obviously some of the tools that were in play when those commitments were made i.e. national policy may not be available to us but we still have state and local policy and the people who live in the city and in the state each of the members who joins can work with partners and if I think you all know for example, Burlington Electric has a efficiency utility efficiency Vermont or VIC the Vermont Energy Investment Corporation has efficiency utilities the transit organizations in the region all have capabilities that would assist each of the members each of the community members in developing plan and reaching their goals there's a lot of power if for example region wide we have a number of communities who are operating on this if you think about transportation if you think about the breaking out where we use energy it's largely the number one use is transportation transportation is a regional issue so if we get regional members in this we can perhaps tackle that more effectively so as an aside you may have seen this, May 10th 30 CEOs of major companies wrote an open letter I think it was published in the Times supporting the Paris Accord these are General Electric Apple, Dow Chemical Exxon Mobil Unilever, Intel, 3M Dana, Bank of America DuPont, Cargo, City Corp Johnson & Johnson, Coca-Cola Corning Commons not related Morgan Stanley and Walt Disney Group all think it's important that we tackle climate change so the Energy Committee is asking you please join in this effort for the future of our children and what you're asking us is the resolution on climate change yes, we submitted a resolution we're open to check if you were interested or inclined perhaps we haven't gotten the wording exactly right in every place here but the sense is a policy decision on the part of the city and then a plan backed by resources and staff through the administration through the Kevin work on developing plan and execution and to execute the plan to achieve these results is the date that you're looking for on there 2025 is that what I heard I thought the states was at a later date the state does not by statute my understanding does not have any targets by date what we have is if I understood this correctly and Sam can help me with this Governor Shumlin it did announce in one of his plans a date it was 90 by 2050 was the overarching goal that was set in the initial planning but subsequent to that as plans are in the community plans at the state they went back and have inserted milestone dates to get to to getting certain targets recognizing that 2050 is so far out in order for decisions to be meaningful you need to begin to think about what are the transition into different sectors to get there from here there was nothing set in stone for this right well the what is stone well I mean it's not it's not in the state constitution it is in the state energy plan which is the guidance document for all activities related to the state it's a goal that's been embraced not only by Governor Shumlin but by our current Governor and is a great deal of work underway right now he's actually appointed you may have seen in the press recently but there is no punitive if they're not hitting those targets it's guidelines what they are hoping for okay thank you it's more than hope I think substantially more than hope outlined as goals to reach by certain dates an additional thought I'd like to layer on I think one of the many different hats as a citizen volunteer I also bring I serve on the Vermont Clean Energy Development Board and I also serve as on the Board of Directors of the Vermont Interfaith Power of Light and one of the things that we're finding in the continuing discussion engagement on this issue climate change energy and our local economy is that this incredible convergence it isn't a trade off and that is now the Clean Energy Development Board has sponsored under different administration several studies which are documenting that Vermont is now in a position of leadership nationwide that is resulting in substantial numbers of jobs for Vermont people and it is now the fastest growing sector in the Vermont economy so embracing climate change as a with a affirmative policy supported by a commitment to begin to think through what are the meaningful steps that make it real as opposed to just to hope is something that we believe will not only achieve the goals of energy that are planned goals but will also strengthen our local economy and aligns well with a moral commitment to the issue which so many people feel is so important to us as a... I think the only other piece because I'm a finance person what type of financial support would be expected from the city however the city deems is appropriate I think you will find in the work that we've done so far in updating municipal facilities they pay for themselves very quickly you know recently the public works department changed the lights on the lime kiln bridge and substantial savings they're in the process of looking at all of the street lights and I expect substantial savings from those we've upgraded heating at various places in municipal buildings so some of these could be actually part of our standard budget and just built in to make these modest changes too that can be significant in the long run if you recall we created a special fund right I know that that we do funds from the solar array that we can dedicated that to so I just wanted to know if that was the source of some of the money and I think beyond that because we have revenue source from the solar array it's our good fortune now that we can turn that to investments each of those investments will reduce the line items in the budget so two years from now our energy budget for the city for natural gas and electricity should be lower we're kind of building a revolving fund if you want to think of it that way that this year's work funds next year and year after and so forth so it I will be honest with you I think it's going to take staff time I think it's going to take staff time to organize and to make things happen just as we have staff time to make city center how essential that staff time is to make the city center as long as efforts there similar I don't know how much staff time I think that's kind of up to Kevin to think through but I do feel it will require some staff time so the staff time that you're envisioning is to increase I guess you would say the efficiencies operations versus perhaps what the energy committee works on which is engaging the public to change their behavior is that fair I see us as a an adjunct to the city's efforts and how it breaks out we have been the only organization that has worked with the residents but I think we could build a city pride for example where we are leaders in energy efficiency and that very the very feeling of being in a leadership role would inspire businesses and residents to do even more so where it breaks off between the city managing their operations and investments and helping engage the community at large it's a big responsibility to put solely on the energy committee if we're going to make major changes so I think that could be open to discussion as well I'd like to add one thing one of the projects I'm engaged in is work on a citizen advisory committee in Burlington for the creation of a new district energy heating system for the city that would draw waste heat from the McNeil plant so I've worked with the mayor and the director of the Burlington Electric Department on this and this is a project that citizens have been involved in for almost a decade but what has captured the imagination of the city of Burlington and the Burlington Electric Department is that they see an alignment between their new goal to achieve a net zero community and achieving carbon goals and this but when you sit down and talk with them about it they have a very pragmatic view that says we're committed to these goals of net zero we're committed to the goal of achieving our climate goals but we're doing it in the framework of I think that this will serve the community's economic interest tax the financial issues that you're concerned about and what I'm finding is in working with these people is that having the policy commitment is a very powerful focusing force that is enabling the city is inspiring the city to find opportunities that they otherwise would want to approach aggressively and with this project they will not only achieve a whole bunch of environmental benefits that the citizens of the community have been advocating for years but they're seeing an opportunity to provide an energy system for the new redevelopment of downtown provide an energy system that will enable the hospital and the university themselves will see significant tax revenues as a result and our point is we know that you have an interest in climate change and you probably each of you will have said these things to friends and neighbors but there's something about a policy statement that moves it and serves as a focusing element to achieve to move things along and we think that it's a necessary idea and especially in the context that others in the state are moving forward we think that the city of Burlington ought to be there among the leadership communities in Vermont not following up five years later we think this is a great community the things you're doing are incredible the things you've done within the city itself and the city buildings and the schools really is this kind of thing that we're getting individual press release attention but a policy like this puts us says in a very affirmative way this stuff is serious to us and we think that it has it provides an opportunity for the our community to see a whole bunch of benefits that won't happen if we don't make this affirmative focused effort great are there other questions or comments I think it's called for I think it was called for decades ago so I just want to thank you for doing the wordsmithing and the research yeah I generally definitely support this I had one concern but you elated in your comments there when you give a lot of deference to Kevin and how he could commit staff resources but I agree with you stating a policy statement like this making it clear to our city manager that as we act and every facet every corner of our operations we need to think about sustainability so I support it giving deference to Kevin and figuring out how to fit that in the staff load I support this yeah I support this too for a couple of reasons one because it goes lockstep with the lean initiatives that Kevin has indicated they're starting to take place in one of the departments in the city right lean manufacturing lean concepts of efficiency right so I mean this this dovetails very nicely with attempts to increase efficiency increases in efficiency mean there's less waste when there's less waste it usually means that there's more value in something that you've spent money on which hopefully means that either you don't raise taxes or you might even lower the later on but above and beyond that it's like we're going to leave Washington behind here because they're going to move backwards and everybody else is moving forward and Great Britain has already committed to 2040 for no more internal combustion engines it's a huge goal and their goal is to improve air quality and there's no reason why we can't piggyback on top of this and say well air quality has two components right it's got greenhouse gases then it's got particulates that you shove into people's lungs and it gives them diseases right so anything that we can do to improve air quality is good for the planet so I think that we have we have a residential responsibility a municipal responsibility and a community responsibility and this resolution embodies those goals that we should all keep in mind every day when you turn on your car right or you raise your thermostat in the middle of the winter time or you lower it in the summertime so I support this and I think we should go ahead and move on today I'd just like to add from the days that we were at Georgetown right in the beginning and long shot as it might be and we all had faith that you know we'd like to win that five million dollar prize that may or may not be five million as it comes down to it but in the end it was and I think it was your comment that we will win by whatever we are attempting to have and so for your persistence and dedication and all else how could you say no it's great it's wonderful and the progress we've made is terrific and I think we owe a lot of this to the tenacity and everything of the energy committee and what all of you have tried to bring to us I too supported it I met with Don and encouraged him to bring this forward so I am very supportive but I would like to ask our city manager his thoughts about the utilization of staff to carry this out and what concerns or you know maybe the language or their explanation of expectations for staffing might alleviate any concerns you have thanks Helen you know this is one of those classic legislative discussions this is really the council's policymaking at its best really in this form there will be challenges for the staff we will we will be looking to the energy committee for help on this I would ask one tiny change in the language if I could and that is in the second section it should be direct the city manager not the city staff just for reasons we've talked about before but if the council believes this to be an important priority for the city then we will do everything we can to make it happen I think we will have a relevant announcement that will dovetail with this at your meeting on the 4th I think September 4th is your first meeting in September is it the 5th I'm sorry the 5th thanks we get to talk about the scheduling later we will have I think a relevant announcement on the 5th I'm not quite ready to tee up but if you choose to pass it tonight it is warned for action if you want to or if you wanted to wait to that night and have me put this into final form with signature blocks and so on I'd be happy to do that and bring it back that night with this other announcement what is the council's pleasure do you need to pass tonight or could we wait till September 4th it might be kind of nice to tie it in for a nifty little announcement depending on what the announcement is I mean we could certainly we could certainly pass it tonight and sign the official document on the 4th right with one change if I might add the coalition is expecting to start putting together plans by fall and seeing where and seeing where their members are going what their ideas are and so forth so I think time every day we put more carbon in the air every day if we start earlier we put less carbon in the air but I appreciate September would be fine it's not that far away we can approve it tonight and sign it you can at our next meeting or even in September resolution form and change it to direct the city manager to work we're fine with that is that acceptable alright so I would entertain a motion to do that we pass the council resolution on climate change with the amendment in the second therefore in place of city staff we would have city manager okay do I have a second oh yeah we probably have a second is there anyone in the public who would like to comment I had meant to do that okay alright they were saying to you here I came resistance from them yeah right but you swayed them there was resistance but your words were so eloquent so are you seconding this resolution motion in a second any further debate or conversation please signify by saying aye aye great thank you very much for your work your leadership and we look forward to keeping you busy alright item 10 interviewing applicants for the south burlington energy committee there are four vacancies and I don't see Linda well it says there are four vacancies but we may only have three applicants Linda McGinnis Sam is here is Patty she's not here yet these are reappointments I recognize these names yes these are reappointments do we need to interview I second that great adulation let's go through the one by one okay I think that makes great sense because I'm certainly very comfortable with the work they've done and want them to continue you still have one vacancy though so we need to beat a few more pushes we're beating them so a motion to approve Sam and Patty and Linda so moved second further discussion all in favor signify by saying aye great well I'm thrilled that all of those people want to re-up and serve the city and thank you very much for what you've done and what you will do thanks for the opportunity to serve you are very welcome okay we're a little ahead of schedule but that's so we don't need Paul here this is a conversation about consider and possibly approve the appointment of Paul Stabler to the board of the Chittenden Solid Waste District or to go through a more regular process to solicit other individuals who might be interested and then interview and make a selection so it's up to you I mean it sort of goes both ways there are certainly plenty of great people in our community who may want to serve in this capacity and Paul's been there a long time but he also as a fact of being there a long time has I think served us pretty well and could continue but that's I had lunch with him about two months ago he wants to serve but he understands if we want to go out I really support it where did you put his trash after lunch he took it home leave no trace sorry it was edible wrapping you know having somebody with that type of experience in background though it is something to be said that he's represented us very well well what we had failed to do I guess a couple weeks ago when we thought we were re-appointing and we were just sort of thanking him profusely so I would entertain the official part this is the official part I would entertain motion to re-appoint Paul Stabler to the CSWD I would make that motion second we got a second any further discussion just one question does he report out once a year to us I can't remember he does he has come in and reported I think I've never seen a written report out if that's what you're talking about that happened to me when he came in I think there was a written report once right once a year we get he would come in more often I'm sure if we asked okay if we come up with some policies do some of the local trash hauling options I'm sure he'll come in he's expressed support for for what that's worth well no wonder you're supporting him all right so we have a motion on the table all in favor aye you opposed great thank you all right so now we are at item 12 we are a little well already five minutes ahead so I think it looks like most people are here this is item 12 is the council discussion regarding potential land conservation opportunity and Kevin you're teeing up a picture to show us the land hopefully maybe I have paper copies I have backups zoning one small z oops that's the next item the one that's on your line right there that's what's that thing what did Tom go he's good at this Tom the dry one HP stuff the ortho is that what we want okay so Sarah is here to kind of leave it off I guess as the are you the president of the South Roenton land trust and my name is Alan Carnats with the Vermont land trust and I work in the Champlain Valley I do all the farm conservation projects in the Champlain Valley how do you spell your last name k a r n a t z l l n I had it spelled differently okay so I won't take the time to say very much but Alan and I have been in touch over the months and actually a year and a half to two years about the project he's about to describe and so it got to be the point where the council needed to hear what was afoot with this and so we managed to work it out to come tonight and you kindly put it on the agenda so Alan will describe the project we're talking about and you did also present to the natural resources resources yeah and there's a couple of folks present if you want to hear their response they got a little input there too okay take it away well as Sarah said we've been working on this and this is the Ewing family who you may know John Ewing and it's been in the family trust for a number of years and John and Linka who recently died a few months ago came to me they've owned the property jointly for a long time and they're interested in conserving it and let me just I'll take you right to the maps what do we have maybe 10-15 minutes on your agenda yep 15 I'll try to keep it to that so does this mouse working here I think it's before so probably yeah I'm just trying to get the mouse the mouse doesn't work is it a touch yeah I can yeah I've got it alright so let me just take you to the locator right now and open that up here we go okay so just scrolling through this I'll acquaint you of where this property sits in South Burlington as I said it's currently owned by John Ewing and Ewing trust it's in two different trusts but of interest to us was the fact that it's part of the natural area surrounding Shelburne pond and you can see all the other colored areas are already protected land UVM and the Nature Conservancy owns a considerable portion of the land surrounding Shelburne pond and we recently finished project down off of pond road as well so this is where the property sits and it's about 120 acres and I've got a couple more zooms here that'll bring you a little closer it's the bright red out there yeah this is it right here it's in a couple of different parcels and I'll explain a little bit of the mechanics of the property and I've got a couple other a couple other zooms this one here is a tax parcel map and let me bring you a little closer and the next one will be even a little bit more closer but the whole property is about 122 acres the Homestead was here that they sold a number of years quite a few years ago and then Lincoln built another house but here's the town line most of the property obviously is in Shelburne there's really only about 10 acres in South Burlington and the South Burlington line is here of course and then along this is Mud Creek Mud Muddy Brook and then the Orange line is Cheese Factory Road and this is Cheese Factory Road Orange U there's 160 coming along here exactly and this was the Mealy Farm and this is you may know is now the Bread and Butter Farm which we know as the Ladooks were the ones that originally owned it and then we've done the Mealy Conservation Project and as again as I said a lot of the natural areas along this part of Shelburne Pond so it has never been developed this is all open Bearland correct are the only houses right up here off a Cheese Factory Road right in here so it's all open undeveloped land the next map I'll show you we'll kind of get to the little more of the guts of the project this ortho-photomap if you will and I'll explain that now and how this is starting to roll out so the Ewing's the Ewing family would like to sell the property or the bulk of the property and we're trying to come up with some conservation funding I'm not here to request any funding from the town Open Space because we haven't signed any agreements we haven't signed any contracts yet so I think that's a little premature and if we were to do that I'd rather go into executive session and I'm not prepared you're probably not prepared to do that but so basically the project moving forward is the bread and butter farm who is right up here up in this corner and they are already grazing this 45 acres of pasture they've got an electric fence and they use this for some of their beef herd they want to buy this chunk of land in Shelburne so that's about 45 acres and we're providing we're looking for some conservation money for this and then this piece of woodland is very special the nature conservancy that says to be conveyed by TNC that stands for the nature conservancy of the most active land preservation groups in Vermont and worldwide really but they're very interested in this piece their intent is to buy this 48 acres that you're seeing right here and this is some wetland area down in here this area has got some I wouldn't say old growth but it hasn't been logged it hasn't been touched in 50 to 60 years and the UVM has had classes out here now and they've did an assessment of it and they feel it's a pretty unique piece of property so the nature conservancy would buy this and eventually transfer this over to UVM so this would be land so it's a two phase or it's a two partnership project that the Vermont land trust I'm involved in this piece of land trying to conserve it so that it would be conveyed to the bread and butter farm and the nature conservancy then would purchase this piece because they own the abutting land as well they own some of this land to the south so from the south Burlington perspective as I mentioned it's really this piece right here which is about 8 to 9 acres we haven't had it surveyed yet but our GAIS is coming in around 8 or 9 acres this piece in the middle is another piece that the family still owns they would retain this land there's already a right-of-way that goes through this property through south Burlington and I think Paul Conner the planner we've had some discussions with him they do plan to do maybe a couple of houses in this 20 acres now all the house sites would be in Shelburne but the right-of-way would be through south Burlington and the nature conservancy would also try to have some access some pedestrian access into this land so our intent today was just to really acquaint you with this project to let you know what's going on in south Burlington I think we're pretty excited about it the bread and butter farm is very excited about it they would purchase this 45 acres at quite a reduced price it's all been appraised for over $10,000 actually the Ewing family paid for most of the appraisal work so we've had some professional appraisers out Justice DeVries in Middlebury is the primary appraiser and I mean he's put this value of this land at over a million dollars of all the different parcels so it'll be a challenge for us to fund it but luckily the Ewing's and John Ewing in particular is willing to take probably 40% less overall than what this property is worth for both easement value to the nature conservancy and then bread and butter would buy that 45 acres for probably less than $100,000 in the end so they're the only way they could keep it and our easement would prevent any further development still allow farm activities but the nature conservancy land would be preserved it would be left pretty much untouched that's in perpetuity yes exactly the nature conservancy would hold easements on the UVM piece so UVM couldn't turn around and sell it they could sell it but the next owner would still have that restriction on it so the whole piece of property are all the yellow outlines correct yes I should have backed up a little bit but yeah and as far as access the nature conservancy has talked about some public access the bread and butter folks would like to have an additional access even though they're the butters there's where their main farm state is over here but they thought that they should also have some other access through here and of course this is other right away so that's that's I guess what we're sort of excited about and you know at some point we'll we've already talked to the town of Shelburne they have an open space fund similar I think and obviously 90% of the property is in Shelburne but that small piece actually the small piece in South Burlington has some of the nicer sort of older standing timber on it so I guess I would just open up for questions at this point I did have another slide up there but it had some more of the financials about some of the fundraising challenges that we're up against and until we have until we're closer to signing a contract with the family you know they've offered this 40% reduction to us and it seems like an opportunity we shouldn't pass up so questions Tom? one but it doesn't it's not specific to this parcel what is the normal process for targeting parcels from to be purchased with the open space fund does that go through the natural resources committee how was Underwood selected it's the council so we don't have a scanning council makes the final decision there's a matrix that the natural resources committee developed and that's used as a screen so they usually look at the parcels and check the boxes and say yes it's you know a flyway or it's for you know animals to run through or it has beautiful timber some other value that the natural resources committee has identified as being important and they tell us their conclusions I guess but the council makes the final decision what I heard you say you weren't coming here looking for funds well I think at some point I mean I'm not here at this meeting to put in to put a dollar amount on it okay and I think it's a little premature because again we're still we're still working out the contract I mean I have we had shared some of those numbers in executive session in Shelburne for example because the family really that was their request they didn't want it and the numbers out there public until things were signed but if you're interested he'll be back I'm just him so I don't know how to word this but it is in the southeast quadrant it's near the Leduc farm so have any TDR's been scheduled for this property doll or have they been offered for sale or sold or did they have the potential of offering TDR's for this property would only be 10 acres in south Burlington since Shelburne doesn't deal in TDR's I think the family throughout in this has actually been going on for many years has been more interested in conservation than development just curious yeah I mean it makes sense I just had to ask that question and the other question is any of that property in south Burlington taxed at current use or the whole property is enrolled in current use yep and I think yeah I and it might be a ridiculous question but I'm looking and saying if they're the eight or so acres in south Burlington beyond our purchasing it for conservation would we have access to that at all it looks like it's or is it landlocked it is landlocked I mean there's no public road access on that there would be eight acres right there that would be owned by the Nature Conservancy but yes there would be a right of way that would connect it there would be a right of way that would connect it well I can this right of way right here we were talking about extending that right away across so that there would be public access and we talked about parking actually would be right in here so people could walk in there to that they would provide some kind of parking access and this line actually there's a wetland a pretty wet piece in here that they would probably want to put a boardwalk in or something like that to get through that wetland piece so the parking would be better off up on this road somewhere like a spot for three or four cars something like that so the land that you're looking at with the right of way right now is that's already located right away that's recorded in the land records that goes through what was Lincoln Lee's property yes and that would be extended to connect across to you know more or less this right away would be extended to come into this corner of that I'm looking and saying if there is a if there is a wetland just to the north side of the dividing line there I presume if we wanted access we would have to pay for the boardwalk type piece to be put in yes I mean I guess we could talk about that you know sorry I'm a numbers person and I'm not trying to get you to say anything yeah it wouldn't be and I don't think the nature conservancy because they own property to the south they're not interested necessarily in vehicular access but they would like to be able to have some pedestrian walking access through there and so it would go it would include not just the eight acres but also the 40 absolutely the whole parcel would be 48 acres and then it connects to Shelburne Pond yes there's another parcel in between I could back up to look at that other map but yeah this this land all to the south is UVM or nature conservancy land already yes yes it is and how do they get access now UVM and nature conservancy for that lower piece well there's trails that come in also from the fishing access that go around a fair bit of that um yeah but they don't go they don't go through the viewing property right now so that's why they're also interested right no I don't think so so they're very interested in trying to acquire this piece so are there any other questions or thoughts do you want to get any comment from natural resources or the only thing I was looking at and I know you can't give us you can't give us numbers but if we're looking at a potential 40% reduction we can probably do the math all right yeah well I think we're also going through the Vermont Housing Conservation Board the DHCB and that'll be one of our main grant sources and they have some cap limits that we have to struggle with and so anytime when there's an open space fund in a community it really helps I mean it's crucial in Shelvern for sure yeah and I can add that the South Burlington Land Trust will help modestly on fundraising I mean we're probably going to have to even ourselves raised depending on what we may come to you for an ask through the open space fund but we're looking at $100,000 local fundraising campaign ourselves with in combination with the Nature Conservancy and Vermont Land Trust that we may have to raise another $100,000 beyond all of our local grants from municipalities and the Vermont Housing Conservation Board so it's a little struggle there is some federal money for the farmland piece that's going to go to 35 acres that's going to go to bread and butter there's actually less funding for the natural area pieces so that's somewhat of our bigger struggle is to figure out how to fund that I just have one other point and I see the area to be conserved and conveyed to bread and butter for a price and I know you did mention a price of around or under $100,000 enlighten me what happens when the time comes that bread and butter decides that they they're ready to sell and the easement still stays in place so whoever the next owner is they have to abide by those restrictions that more or less restrict subdivision and further housing or commercial development and there's also an option for the Vermont Land Trust to step in to buy the property as well and that option actually fixes that value it makes it more affordable for the next buyer it's a perpetual affordability option yes exactly it has to be sold for farming right so it has to remain a farm it just may not be the same farmers we have a certain number of days to exercise that option it doesn't apply to family members so if they want to sell it or keep it in the family that's fine that's that is there any are you aware of any I don't know agreements or that UVM has with say the public high schools to do any kind of I don't I don't know I know they use this for their educational endeavors but I don't know about the high school connection they certainly like I said their graduate class in their field naturalist program they were certainly all over this they used this as one of the students was going to use it for some of their graduate work I don't know about the high schools are there comment Betty do you want to Sarah did come from the natural resources Sarah came spoke with us for a little bit shared with us a basic understanding of the project I think the committee it obviously aligns with principles and mission of the natural resources committee but members were concerned wanted more information about the project or the project would like more information about a little more detail about what this entails so maybe Sarah could come back with someone to talk more with the committee about that or we could do a field trip or we could do a field trip that would be great it's a great place to walk any other comments from us keep working on it we certainly since we don't know the price we have to balance I didn't mean this to be a teaser or anything I was just trying to give you welcome you back when you have some firmer figures hopefully within the next month or two maybe even less going to have a contract and then we can try to move forward is there a time frame there's a time frame for some of the grants that we're seeking coming up the next big grant round is in the spring for the VHCB for Vermont Housing Conservation Board and they only do their grants mostly once a year so if you miss the spring round you may be done for all year so we'll see thank you Michael did you want to make a comment I have a question for Alan would the 28 acres be co-owned by the Nature Conservancy and South Billington no the city of South Billington or Shelburne would not be in the chain of title certainly providing funding so that the Nature Conservancy could purchase it and their plan is really not to own it for very long either their plan is just to be an interim owner until they can convey it out to UVM exactly alright thank you thank you very much alright so we're up to lucky 13 this is the Jenin County Public Safety Authority the Union Municipal District Overview and Kevin's going to go over that we still we still need to look at the screen so it looks like I lost the presentation now you may get big upper left full screen never do so Kevin Dorn City Manager here to talk to you tonight about the proposed Union Municipal District that we have been working on for a year or so I have reported on a number of different occasions the effort combined effort of eight and then more communities to develop a plan to consolidate dispatch services among communities the idea as in review goes back to the early seventies in fact we have found reference to a unified dispatch service between the various Chittenden County towns from an article in the Burlington Free Press in 1974 so this is often many times studied concept and this is as far as it has ever gotten and the city managers and hopefully the select boards and councils will continue to push to make it a reality I wanted to bring you up to speed with where we are what I'm showing you is progress to date on the Union Municipal District and then I'll turn to a more additional phase you had in your packet the draft MOU on fees to support the district and also the draft agreement think of the agreement in terms of a charter it's called an agreement in this case these are draft they are subject to change the council will see this in final form for your potential approval late in the fall the agreement will have to be ratified by the voters and so they will have the ultimate say as to whether or not we join the Union Municipal District so the Union Municipal District is established in state statute and it is the vehicle that we use often to to work across city lines to combine services I'll speak a little bit more about that in a second right now when you call 911 it goes to a public safety answering point and you can see them delineated in the different colors more often than not our 911 calls go to the Williston state police office and from there a call goes to our dispatch and so you might have wondered if you've ever called 911 and then they patch you someplace else what's going on here 911 is really a transfer service when you call one of these public safety answering points when you dial 911 they take your information they find out where you are they determine what first responder is appropriate what community is appropriate to respond and then they call that community dispatch service as this points out the 911 process as it stands today adds an average 71 seconds per 911 call and the next data and the next bullet point goes on to point out what the National Fire Protection Association recommends that 90% of emergency calls are processed within 60 seconds or less and that 99% of the calls are processed within 90 seconds or less so if we're already using 71 seconds up on 911 we can already see we're challenged to meet the standards regionalizing Chittenden County and Chittenden County would create a one stop 911 system that would reduce call and transfer time by about 71 seconds so the plan is to combine PSAP public safety answering point dispatch in one service cutting out the middle man so to speak why are we doing this currently we have six locations and when I say locations different communities that provide dispatch services right now there are eight of them and with Colchester providing dispatch to Melton six locations have one person minimum staffing which limits the dispatcher's ability to prioritize incidents so at various times even South Burlington has one dispatcher on the job and so you can imagine what can happen if we have a significant event the dispatcher could be overwhelmed through consolidation we can eliminate this risk with increased staffing and time for supervision and other management activities that are a benefit to the dispatchers and also to the dispatching agency mutual aid which we saw the other day when our firefighters went over to the University of Vermont to help with a very serious blaze at UVM currently through a manual sequential process which the Lankins would call Processing Times with a consolidated dispatch service with a collective view of the resources that are available system-wide they can dispatch the appropriate response from the appropriate location sometimes ignoring community boundaries because for instance an ambulance from Colchester is closer to a scene in South Burlington than our own ambulance services there's no dedicated oversight during fire and EMS calls what this is saying is that there's in certain cases a dispatcher will stay with a call or a 911 operator will stay with a call through consolidation we're better able to provide that ongoing contact with the emergency responders throughout the entire event saving not only time but also providing security to our first responders who may be there in limited numbers and need help PSAPS transfer calls to dispatch centers lengthening the call taking process I referred to that before consolidation minimizes these issues by transitioning dispatch centers into a PSAP and thus assuming all call answering duties so again that's fundamentally the eliminating the middleman concept so how do we get there in our consolidated proposal Shelburne is a PSAP Shelburne operates PSAP services you saw that in the original screen all of the yellow they currently provide PSAP services to a large number of communities they will bring the PSAP function with them to the Union Municipal District when it is established again it's all about creating efficiencies Green Mountain Transit Champlain Water District CSWD are all examples of Union Municipal Districts and they successfully provide services to people in our region through this through this governance concept those who are working on it are generally the city managers from the affected communities so from across the table we have Charlie Baker going our right to left who is hosting this whole event under the Chittenden County Regional Planning Commission Pat Scheidel, Essex Rick McGuire Billiston, myself Aaron Frank from Colchester Collangelo from Shelburne and Jesse Baker from Winnowski and then Darren forgotten Darren's last name and I'm embarrassed now who is a select board member from Milton this is where the reference to Vermont statute exists for the authority for a Union Municipal District and for more information on this you can go to this website now getting into the agreements what is the agreement that you had in the packet this is like a charter it's being drafted by the joint survey committee with support from legal council including Andrew has worked on this Vermont Legislative Council's office and the Vermont Attorney General's office in the end the Attorney General's office to determine whether or not it meets state law and will approve or disapprove of it when it's completed but this is the people who have been drafting this including Andrew by the way who had this experience working in private sector on an Essex project are very knowledgeable on how to set these up Union Municipal District will be formed if citizens in each community vote by Australian ballot to join so the important issue I want to present to you tonight is that even as we put together these various agreements and MOUs on funding this council will have a say on taking this question to the voters hopefully in March of 2018 and get voter approval to join the Union Municipal District rough Board of Directors will be established communications director executive director will be established this is the layout flow chart of who would be involved our chiefs will be involved as a technical advisory committee there will be an experienced executive director the public safety communications director who will have dispatch and law enforcement or fire first responder experience the towns will pay for this as members will have training supervisors IT support and then five cross trained dispatchers typically at any given time at work in the dispatch office never again will one dispatcher be working by him or herself the members are the current Chittenden County communities that operate a dispatch center or have an inter municipal agreement which is what Milton has Colchester so currently the towns that would be immediately eligible to join Burlington Colchester asks Milton Shelburne and those will be the communities that will be taking this question to their voters there is a provision in here that allows us to contract with other communities provide dispatch services to them both within Chittenden County and even outside of Chittenden County if this becomes a preferred method for them to get their dispatch services how will it work currently chiefs and public safety police and public safety chiefs report to managers and mayors responsible for the management of public safety operations and through their legislative bodies have authority to control the budget under the new system the chiefs will the chiefs will form a advisory committee the mayors and managers will serve on the board of the district and legislative bodies will have the authority to control the budget of public safety operations as you vote for this in your budget each successive year this is a little layout of the budget process it pushes the authority to get its budgeting done early so it gets to you so you can review what plans they have for the upcoming year budget for the upcoming fiscal year the fiscal years will be identical and then after adoption of the budget each community will receive an invoice cost sharing I don't want to dwell on this it's in the MOU it is fairly complicated fundamentally cost sharing between communities is based on a call for service basis on a three year rolling average we fundamentally are paying for the volume of service you're requesting from dispatch and this talks about the MOU that is in development that defines how this all works there is a rather complex early process to get this off the ground as members shift from having in-house dispatch to regionalized dispatch fundamentally we would be committing our current dollars directed to dispatch from our own office and into the regional authority this is a little bit hard to read but it looks at the call volume in the member communities there are 143,652 calls and it seeks to apportion a projected cost based on the call percentages you'll note south burlington at 403,264 dollars the highest paying member as you might imagine is also the highest call volume the city of burlington at 961,386 dollars and then you can read where the rest of them fall we're recently close to Essex and of course we're a recently same size community this is our current cost we've rejected current dispatch services costing 529,225 dollars so clearly there would be a savings for south burlington if everything goes as projected of course it won't but this is a projection we are not in this initially in the first few years to save money in the long term through economy of scale I think we will save money but this is all about the 71 seconds too this is all about making a difference between arriving on time and not arriving on time and sending the right piece of equipment to the right location at the right time through modern communications and GIS services Kevin just a quick question you know that's with the presumption that all of these communities participate if burlington decided to opt out that would be a significant increase it would be and there's some question pat based upon the consultants report that suggested that without burlington in the mix this whole setup might be challenging the economy of scale that might come about may fall short because of inefficiencies I mean we become the highest user at that point yeah or the first or second high anyway burlington is making a very significant investment and it's a community excuse me computer aided dispatch software is a very complex piece of software that burlington is investing in they're invited to their credit they've invited all the public safety first responders in from the other communities to review this because it is our expectation that that will transfer from burlington into union municipal district dispatch center so they're going to be testing this out but they brought all the other chiefs in to view the products and they'll be back again with the preferred vendor I think in the next three weeks or so to further review that software as you might imagine it's combining communications GIS and a lot of different functions uh record taking and it's quite complicated but and it's quite expensive but it's designed to respond to the number of calls that we're estimating for the entire union would this software have that capability yes it would it is run by many much larger much much larger dispatch center and software vendors the different hospitals by all of a sudden can't talk to anybody else yeah that's why we have a technical advisory advisory committee I'm guessing or it seems that the advancements in the sophistication of different information systems are really driving this consolidation to spread the economies of scale and those heavier investments in the technical requirements to get them in place are we seeing this trend elsewhere either in vermont other states okay so we're not out there bleeding edge of this other municipalities across the country are looking at consolidated dispatch services very much so in fact some of our the various first responders have been to other dispatch centers in the northeast where they've done this and they've done it successfully there's one other in vermont that's looking at this and that's the central vermont public safety authority was actually set up in a union municipal district they're struggling very city and my payer and I'm not sure if they're going to make it to the finish line or not but that's another one that's trying to do this in vermont I have a question back on that one Tim back here well just in general so I noticed that the name of it is is a public safety public safety authority so public safety doesn't say radio dispatch right or you know it says a lot more than that it does so is there anything to prevent this authority from expanding its breadth of types of services even though it starts off as dispatch services there is not and the intent you need to change anything when you decide to go down that road we may need to amend it and that amendment would go back to the communities but the intent and this was heavily discussed because there are other areas of public safety that might be better delivered regionally for instance canine units animal control units we already do the special unit for Chitton County unit for special investigations is a regional function although it's not covered under a union municipal district it has kind of a loose governance so there are others and so the question the answer is yes we could eventually choose some others one thing that bothers me is that in the initial part of this presentation it seems like you didn't emphasize enough the fact that you have six separate call centers that are staffed with like one person like all day or all night whatever it is right and I don't know the quantity of the calls that they're taking but and I don't know if they're doing other work as well but the fact is that you have a whole person dedicated each of these centers and they're probably on the phone every second that they're so there is an economy of scale by combining these services right with fewer people doing more work and that's with the latest technology in one place where it's all centralized so that has to be more efficient I mean I then you have the call time on top of that which to me is I mean I haven't heard any complaints from anybody that it takes too long to get to get you know calls and I want one answered promptly it hasn't been in the newspaper I haven't seen that I think that that's an advantage or a benefit for doing this if you have the PSAP consolidated with the dispatch services so but to me the real reason to do this is because you're going to get rid of ex dispatchers from X number of towns period because you don't need that redundancy that's the whole point I thought is eliminating redundancy where it's not benefiting any of the towns there will be there will be economies and staffing we still project that they'll need to have between 34 and 36 dispatchers in the staff obviously you're consolidating all these calls you're going to need a number of people hoping that that number is fewer or the total labor cost spent on dispatching is going to be less in this center than it is among the current total for all the towns well there is there's a new manager there's more overhead costs there's more room for growth but there's also career development where people have a place to aspire to there will be supervisors and training and IT managers along with the executive director there's an equal amount of IT management time that will be disposed of in the number of towns participating where that local IT person doesn't have to bother with dispatch anymore but will you be able to save any money there because you still have to pay for that whole IT person well our IT person right now is Al so we spread Al across now we do have I will say we do have a consultant that does a lot of work with a PD so so yes your point is correct there will be efficiencies associated with this that will lead to appropriate size staffing that will probably be less than the aggregated number existing today so that's the increase in efficiency that should reduce cost for each of the participating towns see that in the chart you should then also see response times, improve dispatch times and with one central dispatch center you have one set of software not eight copies of it at their own license cost so hopefully it's the latest version or right now the some of the centers principally police are using a system called Valcor other police departments are using a record keeping system called Spellman the state uses Spellman and so you have that divergence of record keeping software today one of the technology issues that will be overcome with this is that the new system that Burlington buys if it's incorporated and will be adopted across the system and it's highly capable and then will these dispatchers get some of that out right now and I really don't want to get into that so just curious about how you would like double tail from existing contracts to new contracts and as you might imagine that's a sensitive issue with our team members but all that is being discussed and then the board that would consist of the police chiefs the actual board would be the city managers, mayors or their designees they will have their technical advice they will serve beside this as the technical advisory group to the board and to the executive director so as a practical matter on day-to-day operational things the executive director will provide that guidance if they run into a problem a technical issue the chiefs will be engaged to figure out a solution to the problem the managers because this is an executive function will provide the overall governance reporting back to you in the budget process yes they will in today's world who has the primary management responsibility for the dispatchers is it the chief or is it you well I'm the buck stops with me the chief provides oversight through a detective or through a sergeant right now sergeant duby is the administrative services sergeant and he provides the most direct oversight so the police have the first top responsibility then you're the second you're the chief and then me the chief and then me and then of course our dispatch is located at the police department but they also dispatch obviously for the fire department so interestingly the site that has been certainly initially chosen for this regional dispatch service the union municipal district service is actually in our police department building up on the second floor it's not in the police department it's in the same building however actually bobby miller will get run until the building becomes ours and then we'll get run for it let me finish up here we're looking to get this going in july of 2018 we look to be adding a community every three to six months 2019 and that's it I did want to speak very quickly about a transitional process the survey committee believes it's important for us to transition into this model and have more or less a beta test to see how the larger integration of communities is going to work the two communities that are stepping up to do that are south burlington and colchester sometime this fall I don't have a date for it yet we will be bringing our dispatch teams together in one room and they will be dispatching for both communities both south burlington dispatchers dispatching for both communities as will colchester they'll be sitting side by side in the same room in the in the police department upstairs and we hopefully will be working out the bugs of integrating communities into the system we anticipate that at least one other community will join on or about the sound meeting vote in march probably be shellburn with the police another one will add right around July one and then they'll be coming in probably burlington will be last but probably but that may not be the case they have the software they have the software shellburn has the peace app and the peace app is critical to this so we wanted to get shellburn in quickly the reason colchester and south burlington are fitting together is because the issues will be less and we'll work on the integrating teams together issues and determine how that works best so current dispatch operations so we budget you budgeted the public supported a FY 19 excuse me FY 18 budget that included funding in it for dispatch services some of that will migrate over service along with our dispatchers and then the outlines how the rest of the transition goes until we get into a fully integrated everybody's in and everybody's paying based upon call volume but basically everybody will be dedicating their first two years of their already budgeted dispatch dollars excuse me to the startup that in our actual consoles together so our immediate technology buy will be reduced as a result of that I think our CIP Tom has us upgrading our consoles and dispatch equipment in FY 19 anyway so it dovetails perfectly with our CIP if we have to upgrade in FY 19 and so we will we will seek to do this technology standpoint and from an office based standpoint when is there a public vote would be a public vote potentially in March so we would have it if you approve March of 18 and that would be a vote on the joining the union municipal district and Colchester will have that vote all eight all nine communities would have that vote oh they all would even though they would be raising in I think one question that I have is just and it's in general terms the call for service definition we know that when a call comes in medical call or whatever we have the fire department sends out the ambulance and a truck is that the same in all communities I can't say if it is I believe in most cases it is Pat because my question was that I know we've talked about having some different type response potential with that to cut down sending the two vehicles out and that may or may not be something that all of the communities that we're looking at being involved in this accept or want or what have you and yet this appears to be it's going to be based on the numbers of calls not just the call received but the service that is expected to be provided is that right? Actually not it is the call received the funding for the regionalized dispatch service will be based upon calls not on responses so we have mutual aid agreements with our surrounding communities often times you'll see a south Burlington ambulance let's say in Colchester or Wellesdon and the same with them in our community or we'll do mutual aid like we did the other day at UVM and Burlington will come here those relationships won't change your question though does highlight does this change how communities respond and this in and of itself does not change that it makes it more efficient and it will end up sending the most appropriate piece of equipment or pieces of equipment to the site but it doesn't change it doesn't necessarily change our operational system. I guess what I was getting at is if we were under a circumstance where we needed the mutual benefit and the community where they were coming from was used to sending just the ambulance instead of the ambulance and a piece of equipment it will be unified so that we wouldn't have both pieces going out I mean we would be treated the same that we are treating the other communities correct I think it would remain unchanged from how it is today so if we would normally be sending out the ambulance and fire truck and I know that it's not that bad but there are reasons for doing it we would continue to do that now whether or not we did that in Williston probably not if there was an ambulance call in Williston or in a neighboring community I guess that's what I was asking you know if somebody was responding here to us and we're used to having those two pieces of equipment out that isn't necessarily the ambulance from another community because it's really only consolidating dispatch the rest of it is whatever the operation is or plan correct? none at all I just want to stress again this is all in development the documents you have are draft this is an update we'll update you again as we make progress we expect us to come with you for recommendation on a ballot item sometime in late fall so in the meantime if you have any questions you know where to find me so are you pretty comfortable that all the other communities will actually put the ballot item on their ballot? I am pretty comfortable about it it makes a lot of sense it makes a dollar sense it makes operational sense not for all of the communities though some it's going to cost more those were initial numbers I think over the long term you'll see those economies come through I think the biggest advantage what you said at the very beginning is the reduction in time for response right and I think if we even keep the same level of cost that's a huge win right for our people well it's going to be certainly I mean if you were Burlington you'd be sitting there saying if we have this software that we are doing you know and we are providing the software that's kind of like putting a stake in the business a little bit you know and so I would see that their cost may be proportionately less during the time frame of the software coming in the reason that it's good to have all the chiefs from the neighboring communities come in is once it does arrive once they do get integrated into the regional dispatch there will be a payment into a fund to reimburse them at some level for the technology so that will be a shared cost across all the communities who will at that point be using it in the meantime they will be testing it real time testing it and they will be able to provide a separate and gain expertise in how it's used okay great thank you thank you so the only thing I just I'm sure it's still to be discussed but if a community disagrees with the budget they can just provide a written statement what points they disagree with yes they're required and then they enact the budget I mean there's no if you if you fall short on paying your assessment you might the there is an exit though if the public of a community to submit a written statement of the points they disagree with but they still enact the budget so they can they can protest but it won't have necessarily an impact I think the board would consider the rationale behind the protest and understand if it's valid and whether anything can be done to affect the concerns of a member community but in the end the board will have to use its judgment to pass to approve its budget and and if you want to get if you want to continue to get dispatch services you'll have to pay the fee there is a mechanism to get out overtime that's why I asked about the infrastructure investment because I'm going to put that up front and then you're stuck right you can't get out without paying off all the rest of it there is a means to get out but it's not easy it's not easy but then again everybody who's involved in this believes that this is going to be higher quality service better work environment for employees long-term savings to the communities and better for all of our residents and so it works better than that it would be unlikely because the PSAP and Shelburne bringing the PSAP into this is vital it is a little bit like the European Union you just can't say I'm out there you have to have there is before we move on to item 14 it's five of nine let's have a five minute break wait a minute aren't you coming back from vacation didn't you bring anything you ate them all on the way home no food oh great okay yeah this is pretty cool oh well can you make I can make copies how many do you got so if you make copies that's for everyone thank you great that is great I'll do what I do yeah oh and the little ones what's our what's our code I will I'll explain that thanks Pat I don't want to you don't want to you know pour salt on something you know how that is oh yeah I will you and I I couldn't catch you I used to be on the black I think we have I don't get it listen to the was it really nice for whatever hopefully it will be till I check absolutely sure do you like Boston or is that yeah so we're having no special meeting work on this work on this yeah special town meeting right in the statue okay can we come back into session again this is the south city council meeting of August 7th and we're back in session taking up item 14 which is consider and possibly act upon a joint resolution calling for regional governance of Burlington international airport and Councillor Chittenden would like to speak to that so I didn't prepare my remarks I've already given a lot of little speeches I think I've made my case in the other paper and in previous meetings and to anybody I'll sit down and have a cup of coffee with me on this topic we've been talking about this for about six months but this topic's been around for a long time this has been around for decades just as recently as 2013 a special committee was formed with 12 members very informed individuals CEOs of US Airways JetBlue general manager US Department of Transportation Sandy Miller was on the committee until Pam McKenzie replaced him they dove into this topic from Fraskin Associates and they evaluated four options for governance for the Burlington International Airport and they left this committee and those were all specific to BIA they left this committee of 12 informed individuals to evaluate those options and that committee recommended to the Burlington City Council to explore the formation of a regional authority to address the issues that we've been wrestling with I don't think that the airport is broken but I think the governance is not perfect I think there's a better way to govern an airport I think the problems I've manifested in the forms of conflict and legal lawsuits I could go through the list, home demolitions, home acquisitions AF-35 dog parks, property values there is a constant set of conflicts that happen between the airport and the city of South Burlington because the city of Burlington owns this major piece of critical transportation infrastructure in another municipality that configuration predates the modern aviation industry since 1948 the city of Burlington residents have not paid into that airport I just argue that they are not owners they don't have claim to ownership over that parcel of land because it's been self-sufficient, self-funded through generated revenues and federal and state tax dollars so they shouldn't be making all the decisions over the use of our public airspace I've asked to have this be brought back I know the process isn't perfect if we wanted to change and alter the resolution I'm not opposed to that all I'm looking for is to just continue this conversation to take action on the recommendation that was made to the Burlington City Council four years ago to explore this regional authority to give South Burlington residents a true say in the long-term strategic decisions made by this critical piece of transportation infrastructure that's all I'm trying to achieve I just want to move this conversation forward to work off that recommendation and passage of this resolution it honestly doesn't have much teeth we're asking for something to occur all this does is further the conversation down the road and all it says is that we the city of South Burlington want to say in the decisions over how our public airspace are used in order to serve air traffic both today and going forward into the next few decades that was off the cuff sounds practice but good Megan well first the process that we were told we would have three weeks ago is that we would have a special meeting where we could actually look at this document together offer amendments discuss the pros and cons of the different lines on Friday I found out that there's no special meeting we're just faced with the same document again and we have a half hour and I don't see how we're going to follow the process that we were told we were going to have or decided we would have as a group three weeks ago so I am disappointed in that because I think this document has a lot of errors in it and also I think that like you say this is a rare occurrence for one municipality to own an airport in another municipality and in fact Vermont Statute as George Mealy and James Lees has brought forward along with Mata Townsend's help provides a way for South Burlington to actually have joint ownership of the airport and I would propose that that is the most in our interest when we look at the union for the dispatch or for the public safety we're looking at a problem to solve we're looking at perhaps cutting costs down through expanding eventually to public safety or looking at the pros of something that is there to solve a specific problem as you have laid it out Councillor Chittenden, I do not find based in solid fact I found it based in conjecture and just for instance I do not see how Shelburne and Essex are more directly impacted by the aircraft coming out of the airport than Burlington is I really don't understand that statement I find it to be erroneous and also when it and I'll just kind of hit on some of them when we look at the number of implements that have gone down I think that it has to be taken in consideration what's happened over the border at the Pierre Trudeau airport where you have not only fees that have been removed and a way to keep air travel costs down for the local traveler you also have the Canadian dollar which is no longer as advantageous as it was back then and so we have these international monetary movements that have had more impact on the number of implements from this Quebec passenger base than any governance body could change so I find that to be very faulty reasoning with regard to what this regional governance should achieve and because of this I would say accelerated timetable that we're on especially since now six other communities are looking at a document that we have not even gone through carefully and I find that to be also a faulty process I would say well if there are enough counselors to pass this without us really having the time to go through it I have a lot of changes I would like to put forward another error is that their top recommendation out of that 2012-2013 study was for the airport commission to have actual power with regard to hiring the airport director that was the first recommendation the fourth recommendation was studying a potential governance structure that would include a more regional representation but it was not by far the top priority in fact looking through those documents that our previous airport commissioner sent to me and I don't know if you got them from somewhere else but I forwarded them all to all of you is that what Burlington would expect and if it were to move to regional governance is that not only would they be reimbursed for a share and that figure is not offered in the documents but that each community should be prepared to have some kind of fund set aside just in case the airport needs to have some buffer and that's what Burlington does so it does require according to this consultant, Frasca it requires some kind of financial obligation on the part of the partners who would join in this regional governance structure so those errors aside what I would say is that if the three of you that are perhaps poised to push this through would consider I would like to at least have those errors dealt with tonight but also have South Burlington's interest put more in the foreground where we would like to jointly own this airport so we could have a governance structure we could have an airport commission where we would have representatives from the county but that the governance structure would be headed the hierarchy would be South Burlington and Burlington as the joint owners of this airport and that we would put into our charter language that would give us the power to impose fees and I think that is within our federal rights as well so I would like South Burlington in this body representing the interests of South Burlington residents not to advocate the power that they currently have and that I believe two of our residents have really put on the table here before us there for the taking but to embrace those opportunities that are there and certainly include the regional interests I've never been opposed to that but I would not put our interests in the back seat and the regional interests in the front seat so that's my two cents okay I have more of a declarative statement but prior to that I would like to say I agree with the number of things that Megan has said I may not agree with all of it but that would not be unusual but I have to say that I could not be voting in favour of the resolution tonight for a number of reasons in its current form I feel also that this is it hasn't been fleshed out enough within our council you may say that we have been talking for it for six months Tom you have been talking about it for six months I don't think there's any question even when we ran for office that this was not a priority for me I feel that we have far more productive ways to engage the airport the city of Burlington and state officials if needed then this resolution you know over the past several years South Burlington City Council has written resolutions as a form of communication or dissatisfaction for issues of within the community and the region and the resolutions unfortunately really have no enforcement property or legal value and may serve to and have either antagonized or irritated relations with other communities or community leaders so putting that aside I look and say that I sit on the airport commission as your representative and I bring a lot of things and have especially after our conversations with this I feel that the Burlington International Airport and I think it will all agree is a great economic engine for the region and for the state I happen to feel that it is well run and most data that I've seen indicates a strong performance for an airport of its size it's considered small but it is the hundred one hundred and eleventh in size of the planements of more than 1400 airports at the FAA controls throughout the country so I'm more interested in getting sound mitigation because that's what we're looking for and whether it is through and I believe that we can have it through a constructive manner by building good positive relations of the airport and the FAA specifically the programs that are coming out and the FAA does want us to be involved and to talk about what we would like to see for mitigation efforts I look at this and say I think this is where we come in and we hammer on them for the school to mitigate the sound at the school as one of the priorities in there I'm not saying that Burms are on be shown that they it is limiting