 Hello, everybody. I'm so happy to be here with Tad Hargrave, longtime friend, colleague, mentor, and just all around good guy, and has helped a lot of my clients and students and I think a lot of you watching this probably have heard of Tad if you haven't. Hopefully this will be a good experience to at least give you 0.5% of everything Tad does because he has got a lot of amazing content and, yeah, perspective shifting ideas that have helped a lot of people. So, Tad, your website is marketingforhippies.com, and of course you've got the YouTube channel, which is very active on Facebook page, Instagram, and so I'll put that all in the links below. Folks who are here, if you know Tad, want to say hi, please comment below and let us know you're here and Tad, so we're going to talk about points of view, which is something that has been I think really transformational for a lot of service providers to better understand how to market themselves better. And recently you have been teaching about the three cases we all need to make in our marketing. So we'll talk about that as well. Where do you want to start? Well, yeah, maybe let's talk about point of view first, and then we can get into the three cases just to contextualize it. It just occurred to me years ago that people, there's a lot of ways to say it, but if they don't buy the course, if they don't buy the concept, they're not going to buy the course. If they don't buy the premise, they won't buy the promise. If they don't buy your diagnosis, they're not going to buy your prescription. That just feels so true. You know, if they're not convinced by the logic of your approach, then when it comes time to actually buy the incarnated version of that logic, there's no rationale. You know, if you went out for dinner with somebody and you were really struggling with a problem and it was really painful and then they started sharing their advice and it was just the worst advice. And you only stick around in the conversation because you're like, this is atrocious. And it's the kind of thing where they say, you know, the thing you got to do in the social media is just, you know, just got to just attack everybody, call everybody names. That's the secret, you know, you're what? Or they, you know, you've got a health issue and they say the thing you need to do is move your body less. That's the problem. People move too much. That'd be just still all the time. Stop drinking water. Water's a crutch. Replace that with soda pop. And you're just, anyway, everything we're saying is, has no credibility for you. It just seems mad and you're just sitting there. You order more drinks because like I just have to see where this is going to go. But then at the end they say, you know, I could help you. I've got some packages and some programs that I offer. It just, it doesn't matter. And even if their pitch was really smooth, even if they did a really great job laying out the package and they did check every box of a good pitch, you don't care. But imagine you go for dinner with this person. Or, you know, you're out with friends and you're talking with them and you share you haven't really struggling with this thing. And they ask you a lot of questions. And they, and then they say, well, are you open to some thoughts? And you say, yeah, and they said, well, I work with people on this. And in my experience, often was really going on underneath the surface is this. And, you know, I've worked with clients and they just start giving the logic of what that issue is really about and what it takes to resolve it and everything they say makes sense to you. And they say, you know, you may have noticed you also have this symptom or that's it. I do have this. Yeah, that's often very common that goes with this. And by the end of, you know, the dinner, you're just entranced and so impressed. And then they say, and they leave and they say, if you wanted to work with, never mind, I gotta get going. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Do you have a card? Before you go away, mysterious mask, man, you know, you would want to know. And all this to say that people completely misunderstand and marketing where to put their effort and they think what they need is skills and pitching being more persuasive and charming overcoming objections. And that sale is usually gained or lost way before. before. Right. Right. Oh my. And this and we don't have to go to dinner with every person. This is all happening. The dinner conversation is all happening now via Facebook Live, YouTube videos, Instagram, you know, media and posts, your live live workshops to grew your online summits. Yeah, webinars. Yeah. Little social media posts that get shared or whatever. It's like, you're making, you're clarifying what you're called you know, so your diagnosis of the issue, right? Like, we, we help our clients have a particular transformation. We want them to, I mean, you talked a lot about this, we want to help them go from island A is their current situation to island B, which is where they want to go, whatever that means, healing or a reaching a goal or having an experience, having a transformation of some kind. And you what you're what you've been talking about is well, they're not going to get on a boat. If they don't trust the boat, if they don't trust the captain, they don't trust the boat, not going to get on the boat. And if they don't trust the route that you take, if they don't trust that they're like, why would you go in this season? This is monsoon season. Why would you possibly, they have to trust, yeah, the boat, the captain, and your approach to the whole journey. They've had there has to be some resonance there. Yeah. Otherwise, all this work on it's just putting lipstick on a pig, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And so I like how you say it's that you got they got to trust your diagnosis, your potential clients, if they are to become clients, they have to trust your diagnosis of the issue that they're coming to you with. They have to trust your prognosis, which is if you don't work on the issue, this tends to be what happens. This is the this is the typical result. If you're not working on this stuff, it's not that you're trying to scare them or trying to create, you know, pain for them or anything, but it's just just to mention, you know, maybe it won't be that painful, it just won't be blah, you know, it just that's the typical situation. I mean, and maybe some of the symptoms you are experiencing now, that's that's the result of the diagnosis. And then, if they trust your diagnosis, they trust they understand the prognosis, they agree with you on it. And then, of course, they're much more likely to trust your prescription, as you say. So talk about that because and and and isn't that what most service providers just focus and kind of percent on? Wow, good point. Interesting. Yeah. Out of those three, they just get and jump right to the prescription. Yeah. And what would just disable the prognosis also the prognosis is also includes if you do handle it, here's what can happen. You're sort of defining as realistically as possible the possibilities and the limitations in their situation. You know, so it's like, look, you have this physical condition, and you're never going to get full mobility back in this joint. But more as possible with professional help more as possible than you might think. There are some limits and there are some possibilities and you're just trying to help them in a realistic way get a grasp on that. And you and you can tell people, look, somebody else may disagree and somebody else may be able to help you get more results than that. I'm just saying for me, from what I understand, how I could help you, these are the possibilities and limitations we're working with. So that's good for people to know. I don't think I've ever said it this way, but it's helpful for people to understand this person I'm talking to, this is the range of possibilities we're dealing with. So then you can decide if you want to work with them or not. Now, they may go to somebody else who says, oh, yeah, absolutely, we can solve this problem. And you know, it's just a sham, but that builds your credibility. Because then they come back to you and said, this person promised me the moon. And that didn't work out. And they took my money and laughed all the way to the bank. And I think you were right in your prognosis. And so can we? Yeah, man. I wish more people in our communities had come to us sooner, right? I'm sure you get those messages. I mean, when people say that to you and I directly of, I wish I'd found you a decade ago. Yeah. As all of us have people in our lives, why did I have to go through all these other monkeys before I came to, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, people tend to just jump to the prescription. And there's a few challenges with that. One is how do you know it's the right prescription if you haven't done a good diagnosis? So there's every chance that you are selling things to people where it's not a fit, which means it's not going to help them, which means you're going to get bad word of mouth or mediocre word of mouth. And there's an opportunity cost in that. But number two, that's where the trust is built, is in the diagnosis. That's either in a one-on-one formal diagnosis. I mean, if you go to a doctor and they ask you two questions and give you drugs versus you go to a doctor and they spend an hour or two with you and they're just asking you questions. Well, try this. Try what? Do you have this symptom? And you can tell they're really trying to figure it out until they say, wait a second. When you wake up in the morning, do you have this? And when you go to bed, is it this? And around two o'clock in the afternoon, I think we got it dialed. If there's an elation that comes from actually naming the thing, oh, we've got it dialed, that's the problem. So, you know, for a business coach, they're asking all sorts, instead of just trying to sell their program, they say, wait, tell me your niche again. Huh, no, I think that's pretty good, actually. That's a solid niche. Okay, and then how have you been marketing it? And how many people have you reached? Oh, you've reached two people. Okay, we found the point. You know, you get to diagnose where is the issue. And that is, it's a beautiful feeling to know we've got it. And that, the willingness on our end to do that, and their sense of this person really gets it. They're not just at the empathy level, they understand the pain I'm in, but they understand what's happening underneath the hood. Yeah. Empathy is actually very brief. Empathy does not need to be belabored. We don't need a five page part of our sales that are saying, and then it must feel like this, and that reminds you of your childhood, and that was terrible too, which reminds you of a past life, and I feel you in all of it. It doesn't have to be that. It's just, are you going through this problem? And it's really shitty? Yeah. Boom. Empathy solved. Like, it doesn't need to be so deep, but boy, the diagnosis does. I mean, this is because when they, being in pain is bad enough, not knowing why you're in pain is intolerable. So they come to us in this pain, and what they want to hear from us, what they don't want from us, is to, us to try to be their buddy. You know, they, you don't want to, if you're in terrified, you go to a doctor, you have some crazy symptoms, and the doctor sits down and says, hey, what are you doing there? So, you know, before we talk about what's going on, I just love to get to know my patients. You know, I like fly fishing. I'm a big fan of them. My father used to take me out fly, you know, just like, I don't care. We'll find this out later. Can we talk about the thing I'm so terrified about right now? What we want is them to be there to hear it, and to be trying to get to the bottom of it. And so, if they come to a workshop or presentation, same thing. Yeah, this is, this is great. By the way, folks, if you are hearing anything that you want to remember, that, that, you know, you want to take, going forward, your takeaways, please comment below. I'm not saying that just because it helps with the video engagement, which it does. But more, I actually am curious, well, what are you taking away from this? Like, what's, what's valuable? So, okay, I want to ask you this. And a lot of people, I think, in our communities don't feel like, sometimes they don't, they don't feel like they're, they're solving painful issues, like a doctor who is, has a patient who needs to, needs to have the pain go away yesterday kind of thing. But like, I often hear this and see if any of you relate to this. George, I do such deep work with my clients. And, and it's just they, they, you don't know until you experience it. That's why I can't talk about it. You just have to sign up for my nine-month program to do the deep work that I do with clients so transformational. And I, there's no words. If I put Tat, if I put words to it, it would cheapen the work. Oh, it's so painful. It's so painful. It's painful for us as, as marketing people to hear that. But, but, but, but that's, that's what I think a lot of people watching this and listening to this can probably, there's George, how did you know? Well, it's the, it's painful in the same way that Hotel California by the Eagles is painful to me now. I believe it's a good song. I can't tell any more because I've heard it too often. It's painful to listen to that. But it's, yeah, it's an understandable feeling, right? This, how do we articulate what we do? So, yeah, and also, also that it's like, it's like, well, it's not really that I'm solving an urgent painful problem, George. It's not, I help people through a transformation maybe that they, they're even vague about themselves dark, my clients, you know, they don't, they have this general unfulfillment, you know, with their life, maybe they don't, they don't even know what's possible. And maybe they do, but it's like they're, they're finally ready for the deep work. It's like, the deep work. Well, it's, yeah, so a few thoughts. One is there's a client I was actually just talking with yesterday, and he has no discernible niche. But one day we were on a coach and call and I said, wait, how many clients do you have? How's money? It's good. And I got, I got enough clients. And I said, so what's the problem here? He said, well, you know, I just, you know, I just don't have a niche. And I said, why, why do you need a niche? What is it you want that for? And what we finally said all that, he actually didn't have a problem. He wasn't ready to niche. Money was good. He wasn't wanting to, I was like, just relax, man, enjoy. You've got people coming to you anyways, whatever you're doing is working. And we were talking today and he said, you know, what he's realizing is, well, but now he wants to scale it. There is a kind of organic word of mouth that's happening for him, but he wants to grow it. And he's realizing that will be very hard if he doesn't niche. And I said, yeah, that's probably, you know, what's interesting, Ted, is actually, I was going to say, he thought he had a problem because he believes in your diagnosis so much. He's heard you talk about the niche and he believes you. And therefore he's like, hey, I want one of those. You've been talking about it. And I believe you. You know, I believe the prognosis and I believe the prescription. Which is why I had to do the diagnosis there, because it was so confusing. I'm like, wait, what's happening? You're, you say you want a niche, but when we talk about niche, you're so resistant to it. And so I had to just say, wait, does he have a problem here? Because the reason you would want a niche is it's going to make your marketing easier. If your marketing is easier, you're going to get more clients and you'll be able to sustain yourself and maybe be very profitable. But he was already assisting himself. And I said, do you want to grow right now? Like, are you really wanting to make a lot more money? No, I'm pretty happy. I like it right now. I don't, I don't feel I need to grow. So there's no problem. So that proves the point. That is the kind of diagnosis we need to do. Yeah. Yeah. And, and you're, you've been showing up so consistently with your content about things like niching point of view that, of course, a lot of your people rightfully so you burden that trust. So I want to, I want to, well, two things. All right. First of all, everyone watching, thank you for being here. And please feel free to comment below if you have questions for Tad because that, you know, we have a value of opportunity to be with him here. And I believe I can see comments if you put comments in, but it's not a guarantee. So please somebody put a comment. I haven't seen any comments yet, but I don't know if that's because my Facebook live thing is not working, but I'm going to refresh and, and take a look again to see. Okay. Number two, I want to definitely circle back to the, I have, I do deep work. It's not a painful problem. Right. Okay. And third, I want to, I want to not debate, but I do want to share with you kind of my thoughts about niching. And you're, you probably have heard some of our common people come to you and come to you in panic and say, George doesn't believe in niching. Tad, what do we do? You got to set him right. And, but obviously I, whenever I say this niching stuff, I'm always like, my friend, Tad, I, you know, he's, he's got the niching stuff down. Please learn from him. And thank you, Anna, for, for confirming that the comments are working. So I appreciate that very much. Okay. So which one do you want to cover first of the, of those three things? Let's talk about, yeah, let's talk about the deep work because there's a few thoughts. One is let's just roll with it's true. Yeah. So then what's important is that you get in front of your ideal clients and first figure out who they are, who the people are best fit and you give them a taste of what you do. You give them some real experience. I remember who was it? Jesse and Charlotte or maybe it was Eric got me. I remember somebody saying the way that you are with people, let's say when you meet them at a party and you talk with them. That's how they think you're going to be with them in a session because we've all had that experience, you know, where you're at a party and you're talking with somebody and they just have such a beautiful stillness and presence and loving like Jane Goodall. I've had the pleasure of meeting her a few times and she has that about her, you know. And so then there are certain people when you're around them, you just, can I hire you as a mentor? Can I just, what do you do? Are you a coach? What do you, are you a therapist? Like how can I work with you? So there is that, that sometimes you just be around people that get an experience of you or you lead a workshop, a small one and you know and you lean on your clients to bring people maybe you pick particular themes that you know will be sort of hits and popular and people come. So that's one thing is you can focus on giving people in small tasters the experience, but also that's what your writing can be. That's what your videos can be is they get the experience of you virtually. And then I still in my experience, when we, people come to me and say but there's no real issue. It's just this deep work. If we keep digging around and exploring, something does usually pop. Or ah, that's the thing. They couldn't name it. They couldn't even see it. But there often is some island A, island B there. They just didn't know how to come at it. And once they know what that is, boy, everything opens up. There was a fellow I talked with the other day, puttering session. And he said, um, puttering session, by the way, for those who don't know is the way that Tad has been offering the one to one coaching with him. Do you want to say just 30 seconds on what a puttering session is? It might inspire others who are watching this to do their own puttering sessions with their clients. Yeah, I just realized I like to talk while I tidy. And so that's I tidy or I go for a walk. I putter on things while I'm on a call with people. So there's no video. I'm not taking notes. I'm not looking at the screen. We're just chatting. And I gave people a discount for that. And yeah, so that's the that's the puttering sessions. Yeah, well, and that's a good example of what you're talking about. Like people, they experience a bit of your presence or a lot of your presence on videos or, you know, in your blog posts and things. And then they're like, you know, I'll be lovely, lovely just to spend some time with Tad, obviously talking about business or marketing or whatever it is, but or or not. And these puttering sessions are amazing. And I call this. I call this energy signature. I mean, that's the term that I've been using like a lot. You know, it's like your energy signature comes out in your. Well, if you're lucky to be in the room with someone, obviously, that's very strong, but but it comes out on video. It comes out in your writings. It comes out on webinars, live videos, whatever. It's like the more someone and experiences your energy signature, if there is a match, I feel like if there is a soul group match or some kind of like destiny kind of there is an energetic signature compatibility, then there's a there's a there's a connection and then there's a leaning in and therefore, of course, I totally agree with you. I think a lot of I, in my opinion, like the best kind of a service provider business coaching, mentoring, healing, facilitation, counseling, whatever you want to call it, the best kind of business in that realm is when someone connects so much with your energy signature, they just want to pay you to hang out with you. Right. Yeah, there's a you've got to talk with Jeffrey Van Dyke. Do you know him? Yeah, of course. Yes. Man, reach out to him because he's been thinking about this exact stuff quite a bit and he's got some amazing thoughts, but we can imagine there's different levels of I don't know what you call it connection or things that need to happen. First of all, there's just the emotional side, which is it's just got they've either got to be inspired enough about some goal, or it's got to hurt enough some problem for them to do something. There's just got to be some emotional to get them as a client yet to want to spend any money with you. Now that also, this is an important thing. You might be able to get away with a very tepid Island A and B and it's not that painful. There's no big result there inspired by when the price is cheap. But boy, if you try to then do a higher end package, watch those people evaporate. Yeah. Or I mean, if they experience something cheap and they enjoy it, have fun with it, enjoy your presence, then there might be enough of a some kind of like they might believe enough in your point of view to take it to the next step, right? Yeah. But so let's just say but yeah, that's the second part. So the first part is there just has to be some emotional something on their end to get them to move. Second is there's the logic, right? So they hear your framework, they hear your point of view, they hear your your take on things and they say that makes more sense on this issue than than anything I've ever heard. That is important. But then there's also this kind of resonance level. You're talking about this energy signature. There's and the way Jeffrey said it. I loved it was that when somebody is really doing their their calling, I never thought about like this before he said but if you think about if there's a calling, then who who did the call? Who did the call? Who made the call that you are responding to? If there was a calling and what if there's this community of people who has been calling you who needs help and that's the call you're responding to and that's your calling is you know to find them and to help them and so that when you connect at some soul spiritual level there's this recognition like you're the one you know this fit not just at a you helped me solve my problem not just the fit at that point of view aligns with my you know biases and all this but also at some deeper energetic level there's that and so I think that's that's also true. I like that a lot I like that a lot yes there is a call from your ideal client community they are in the field of potentiality calling out for you I was doing I was just I was just really curious about like how many people are in the world that we could possibly reach and I was running the numbers okay so I was like okay first let's start with higher income English-speaking countries and I came up and it's like something like 500 million if I'm doing the math right 500 million people around and that's actually conservative conservatively estimated and then I'm like okay out of 500 million English-speaking higher income people living in those countries if it was like 1% that's 5 million right that might resonate with I'm sorry sorry sorry sorry 10% are entrepreneurial that's where that's where I got there next 10% it's actually it's interesting in Europe it's around more like 15 to 17% in America it's more like 10 to 12% in Canada it's around 6% tad you got you got some work to do right okay so let's say 10% so that's 50 million higher income entrepreneurial people and by entrepreneurial I also you could take the same number and say okay people more interested in holistic wellness or people more interested in personal development or spiritual growth or something like that so it's just conservative estimate 10% and that's like out of those 50 million people let's say 1% I could possibly ever reach that's half a million people that's 500,000 people I'm like in my 13 years of working so hard on the marketing I've reached maybe maximum 50,000 people I don't have that many on my email list but it's like maybe 50,000 people I've like looked at my stuff for like more than three minutes or more than 30 seconds and go not for me or maybe or yes I'm in and it's like it's like there are so like I could work so hard for the rest of my life in my marketing and I still couldn't reach 10 times it's like it's like in other words there is a call you know it's like like we have that brings me a sense of like urgency and sense of like mission that there are so many people who need our and who would benefit who would be delighted to discover you know your your presence my presence and so let's let's go out and do it yeah I love this so you you're talking about there's got to be an emotion ideally there's some kind of emotional poll because of their own challenges or their own yearnings yeah there's got to be therefore also hope ideally a logical connection to say okay I've got this poll and your framework or point of view your point of view your diagnosis prognosis prescription makes a lot of sense to me and then third there is a kind of a soul you know we got to heart got mind got the soul level you know destiny or vibrational alignment so you want to call it where it's like I I like you I don't know why but I like you or maybe I do know why but it's like I resonate with you I like I want to be around you more often right and it's like so many people think that marketing is about getting the words right oh interesting right no right it's like market oh marketing oh if I just had the right words does anyone else resonate with it if I just had the right words people would buy from me well that's just a logical level yeah good point mostly it's like and what I've been trying to do for for years is make the case for the soul level type stuff where I'm like I'm like you know truth truth be told I think these are three kind of levers I mean we like talking in this kind of language right we like talking about levers and factors and things like these are like if any of these three were strong enough or there's some kind of mix in between the three like if any of these three were strong enough it probably would make a sale right but and I've been trying to make the case for years that listen if when you show up with content when you show up generously in either your authentic content or your netcaring you are mostly building the soul level connection which if that was strong enough it doesn't matter how fault how how you haven't made the case for logic it doesn't matter if they don't have that strong emotional pull they'll still want to probably spend time with you and buy from you if the soul connection was strong enough and at the same time the marketing the copywriters are working on the logic side and yes the emotional side but tad this is this is interesting to me okay the other day I was thinking the copywriters the people who are teaching us how to get people to buy they are trying to get us clear on the pain points and how to get the what is the emotional driver or the buying reason from the target audience right it's sort of like this mix between emotion and the logical and I'm like wait a second shouldn't that stuff happen shouldn't that stuff primarily happen in the product design product creation side like if you like why are we focusing so much just on the marketing side it's kind of like a doctor going a doctor who has like no no credentials or no grounded experience solving like your knee pain but it's like let me let me get the really good the best marketer the best marketer in the world to try to sell people on hiring me for knee pain issues when I'm just like I have some possible ideas on it but it's like hey they paid me money now I get to experiment with my clients on the knee pain stuff it's like maybe maybe it should happen on the product level the service design level it's like we are designing the service or product or program or group or coaching package because we have such a passion for this emotional driver and and and a passion for this frame this this point of view well and you know this in a lot of ways goes back to the three cases because let's let's just say there is a call and and that that call is coming from a particular community of people who may not even know themselves as a community but they're calling for help so what are you going to do come back I mean what do you think they would rather when you imagine they're in a village and you come back to this village or come do it for the first time and they say ah you've responded to the call what did you bring with you a clear articulation of your pain or I brought this thing that will help you with your pain yeah they want us to bring something back to them that will be useful to them in their troubles not just you know well crafted empathy or you know well crafted marketing that masquerades his empathy yeah they want something helpful and so and I think that that whatever we come up with it's got to be rooted in a very clear diagnosis of their situation which gets into the filtering and niching also but of diagnosis of whose situation what is the exact problem we're solving but we might say okay if you have this like there was a woman on one of my calls an herbalist and she focuses on Hashimoto's thyroiditis that's her thing with herbalism so once you've got that kind of a clear you know call that you're responding to you can have a very clear diagnosis you can become very smart on that issue and so she will then say look there's a lot of things going on with this issue and of course herbalism is only one facet of the treatment there's a lot of other things but you can become an expert on that and then she could probably give a pretty good prognosis generally based on and again this is generally for that community it's like okay if you have Hashimoto's thyroiditis and by the way here's one it's too soon probably for me to work with you here's one it's too late but within this window here are the possibilities and limitations and therefore this is my prescription this is the protocol this is the general thing I'd recommend of course this will have to be adapted on a case by case basis but if you had to just go off what I'm saying here here's the general idea the general set of steps the general principles to follow the elements that are needed and the other thing that I'd say which ties to your shouldn't we have this in the product design let's imagine there's two levels of the prescription the first is just the information just kind of here's what you need to do but there's also integration meaning them knowing hearing you make the case is not enough for them to probably change they're also going to need some kind of support now that could be they may need and this is where you just have to be honest with yourself like okay for these kinds of people and if you were one of those people in the past what did I need but these kind of people what do they need to really make this happen maybe they need a group that could be a part of so they're not so lonely maybe they need some professional help of some kind maybe they need some kind of strong accountability they could use a journal to keep track of this that'd be helpful and a human being who cares and will follow up with them and will troubleshoot with them and will be present to you know accept or integrate their their journey right it's like yeah it's like look you can try to do this on your own and this is to imagine I'm on stage and I'm doing a presentation I said look if you're struggling with this issue you can try to do this on your own in my experience here's the prognosis of that like that tends not to people kind of fizzle out and then you just run into problems so whether and this is the key phrase for everyone to underline whether it's me or somebody else I want to recommend get professional help of somebody who can do these play these roles for you and and you can be very specific you need somebody if you have this kind of a problem you need somebody you can speak to once a week for about half an hour where you can troubleshoot this stuff as it goes or once a month you're going to need you're going to really need a community of people because you're going to want to give up and you're going to need people around you and you're going to need a kind of a curriculum you're going to need a structure you're going to whatever it is that you think people most need not just to understand it differently intellectually but to actually have the results what do you think they need so the diagnosis answers the question what's happening because they come to us in pain they know they're in pain but they don't know why the prognosis answers the question what's coming yeah if you handle this if you don't what is the future hold and the prescription answers the question what's needed and so but the what's needed is not about your marketing copy it's about the design of your offer and you designed an offer that is what you think people need and what you needed when you were struggling with that if that was the situation and then the marketing itself once you've made that case and they say oh I agree with them I think that is what's happening out of the surface and you know and the aim the aim of the diagnosis is just to be accurate and they say I think he is accurate the aim of the prognosis is to be realistic and they say you know what that landed is pretty solid that's a realistic either way we go and the aim of the prescription is to be effective and they say and they sit there and they're thinking that is accurate I think that's realistic and that is that would be effective so now they're intellectually sold but then we need to say okay now that you have that and and let me make also the case for what is needed to take this to the hoop to really get you the result and they say yeah I agree with that too then the pitch is just this so if that all makes sense to you I have a program that does all those things of course I do of course I do here's the commercial you know and you just and it takes you a few minutes instead of being this long extended thing because the case was already made you made all three cases instead and you you as an education as opposed to a selling thing yeah you know what I'm getting from this actually is that to clarify these things for each of us to clarify these things helps primarily in terms of our own integrity with our product design yeah with our with how we approach the skills that we have implementing them to help our clients customers or students members etc because if we if we don't think this through I mean first off if there's no sense of who we help and we're just freestyling all the time what this means is you improvise with every client you see you're always having to come up with a new something a new something versus if you say you know what I'm gonna narrow I'm gonna this is gonna be the community I'm gonna be serving and I'm gonna really focus on this particular issue or this particular result or however you end up mission but if your service provider let's say you do that well this means you get so smart on this topic so your diagnosis really does get better and better because you learn more and more about what's involved you know more the elements to look for yeah and therefore yeah you're able to design a kind of a protocol a package a program an offer that really does it all or and or of course you may say I don't want to do all those things but then in your pitch you say look here are the 10 things that you need to really handle this my program does four of them and so though if you really want to get the results while you're working with me you got to go get those other six so a tangible example this is so we're going to do this deep healing work and this may bring up some real big emotional stuff and some past traumas I'm not a therapist so if you're going to be in my program you must be working with a therapist weekly during this and I need to have that confirmed so you're not selling that yeah but you can still give the con you can conditionalize what you think is needed for them or you could say look and if you're not working with a therapist I think zero responsibility for you not getting as far because that's part of the deal yeah before we go further I do uh I do want to touch on this idea of niching because oh yeah you know it's brave of you George to publicly confess how wrong you are I know I know it's very and it's it's had same with you as well no we're gonna have fun with this because a lot of people are listening to this like what do you mean limit myself to a particular community I'm serving but before we get there this is a good cliffhanger I want to I want to do a little bit of commercial right and just hopefully this will be entertaining no I do want to I don't want people to know about your upcoming because I mean hopefully we've made the case to this point that is it is not only helpful for your marketing to clarify your diagnosis prognosis and prescription but more importantly in my opinion it's helpful for your integrity for your product or service design which out of which authentic marketing happens out of which content authentic content happens when you've got this stuff design that's a little sense then it's like oh of course content comes out of it and of course marketing is very natural coming out of it so you are doing a workshop some people may be watching this after the workshop can people buy it even afterwards I will have a DIY version at some okay have a do I but those of you who are watching this before March 18 okay or whenever you're watching this click on the link below because they're you know I'm sure you'll you'll be doing it Tad like every now and then you'll do a live version again so click on the link below in the description and tell us about this a little bit so in the workshop it's focused on helping people clarify the diagnosis prognosis prescription for for themselves and they get to see other people kind of so many examples of people doing it and and support one another a little bit yeah yeah there's there are already four recorded webinars also there about let's say now 75 minutes long each on different facets of this point of view piece that you'll get to watch in advance or after and then the day itself is entirely hands on you're doing stuff I'll be guiding you through a process asking you but I think are the most important questions to to suss out what is the core of your point of view to figure out the main seeds that you can plant and take and run with in in your point of view so yeah I'm very excited about it because it's it's just helpful sometimes to have some focus time where you're really doing the work so there's going to be very little theory the theory was mostly handled in the webinars but I will also be taking questions at some point and then there will also be me hot seething people so there'll be a few people I'll just work with them during so you can actually see that process happen and it's from I think it's from nine to five Pacific time on the 18th yeah it sounds really valuable so people can either join the workshop just buy into it or they can join your membership and the workshop comes with it yeah so tell us a minute about the membership yes the membership if you go to marketingforhippies.com slash membership most of the details are there but it's just if you resonate with my stuff and you want to work with me more in depth this is where it all happens but all my ebooks are there for free all my courses are there and the community is great it's good people really good yeah so yeah that's something I do it's a hundred us a month and I show up occasionally do a substitute call but thanks for bringing me on every now and then okay so yeah folks check out the link below see if it's for you if you have felt this conversation to be something you want to do this kind of work you want to do well there's the resource for you to check out okay so we've got like less than eight minutes and so well we'll do a we'll do a lightning round on this topic of niching so tell me what you think about this idea right like obviously I have promoted your niching work all these years I believe in it and I tell people to go and do it and yet I also have just like both of us have plenty of people in our communities who are like kicking and screaming like no I don't want to niche and so here's the here's the sort of the middle ground middle way that I've been I've been I've been teaching and tell me what you think about this you don't have to niche yourself but it's really helpful to niche your offers okay so so another way I say it is your personal brand can be as broad as you like it to be I am George Kow the coach for all people with all issues with all transformational needs okay your personal brand or your personal brand can be as broad as you want meaning talking about values or talking about a particular you know vision for the world or whatever your personal brand can be super broad your website your homepage can be super broad and yet yours when it comes to each of your service offerings programs packages it's really helpful to have it narrow as you possibly can yeah so okay so these would be my thoughts on that yeah I think that's a very helpful move when people are just profoundly stuck but like if somebody first off if somebody's stuck around their niche but they have a spouse who's supporting them or they got savings and there's no urgency there's no problem to me then it's like just yeah be a coach for everybody and do your thing you know live it up enjoy it that's not a problem but let's just say you got the same coach and now the money's tight and they really do need a response the need a result but they're still resistant to kind of globally niching their business yeah then I think what you're talking about is not just brilliant but it's vital because it's it at least gives them a fighting chance of getting a response on that particular offer versus oh I'm doing a workshop for everybody but everything which is we'll not get a response the only responses going to get are the people who kind of love you who will come once because they love you maybe but they're not your people for this offer and they're not going to get a ton of results out of it because it's not really for them and so there's an opportunity cost of word of mouth that they're not going to be telling other people about it so so yes and I talk about this sort of big circle little circles and you know sometimes the big circle of people it's so broad who they want to work with and as a business coach it can be very helpful to have them pick just a little circle for now for this offer or for this quarter like hey for this quarter why don't you experiment with focusing on this and that can give people the grist for the mill of did you like that group or not where I would go with that myself then as I would say but like what we're ultimately aiming for is a global niche that you're known for because in my experience people get known well first of all not everybody gets known you know there's some people who really live in obscurity and just kind of ghosts you know nobody really knows them so being known by any number of people that's not a given but if you do get known you're always known for one thing Mark Walsh who you and I know he was talking about how he's in Lisbon and he was relating this experience of being at the bar with his friends and he'd meet his friends friends and they would introduce themselves and one of them might say oh yeah you know I am I help people with scoliosis and somebody else would say oh you know I do a bit of DJing and I do some acro yoga and you know and five or six other things and he said what he noticed later was when he left he could always remember the person who just had one thing he could remember what they did and he couldn't remember any of the things that the other people did so we're going to be known for one thing and this becomes the question what's that one thing you want to be known for that's the because people say well I don't know if I want to have a niche and I say well that's adorable that you think you have a choice because if we look at niche as just what are you known for what's your reputation like oh you think you're going to get out of having a reputation right right right right the reputation could be oh yeah they're kind of a new age hippie it could be a general reputation it could be it could it be like for some people it's like a single word you know or a single book or a single skill you know or a single cause or some kind we there's a lot more we could talk about this but it's like I I think that's true it's true like at the bar scenario what I would also say is that the more someone resonates with your energy signature the more they can remember about you right like that's that that's also true like like and and and maybe we don't need the person at the bar to remember us because it doesn't like like it's interesting like when I go to the dog park right and if someone asks me what I do I'm like I couldn't care less if this person knows me or remembers me the rest of their like I'm like yeah I do I'm in business I'm in I'm a business consultant that's literally what I say and then we go on from there oh cute dog you know it's like like I'm not trying to get business from here because it's probably not going to happen it's not the right person but it's also true that it's also true that I want my clients to be able to more clearly say what I do to their to their friends yes yeah and and that's where again diagnosis prescription comes in point of view lots more here I think this is a good good cliffhanger to end on as as as as good storytellers would do Pat it's been awesome I'd love I'd love you so much and I love talking with you and it's an honor to be able to share you with my people thank you so much for taking the time and thanks for everyone for watching yes all of them will see you down the road somewhere yeah absolutely thanks everyone see you all soon