 فشرف بالشتغالي بالعلم ولا تبغي به ما عشت يا دادا دادا وياله من شراف عظيمي now we are going to be speaking about تاريق علم الجدل the history of علم الجدل the history and how it came about the foundations of علم الجدل أصول علم الجدل was present from the day Allah ﷻ created creation the foundations were already there it's not something I personally can say to you it started at this particular point such as when you see the Qur'an Allah ﷻ talks about the debate of Iblis when Iblis said أنا خير منه خلقتني من ناري وخلقته من طين that I am better than نبي الله أدم I am better than him you created him from fire and you created me from طين this here is called جدل which is باطل that Iblis here used and it's تمويه المبطلين which we will speak about إن شاء الله but also the debate of among the dialogue of the angels when they said قالوا أتجعلوا فيها من يفسدوا فيها ويسفكوا الدماء ونحن نسبحوا بحمدك ونقدسوا لك so they asked الله ﷻ أتجعلوا فيها will you place on this earth من يفسدوا فيها those who are going to bring about corruption ويسفكوا الدماء and they are going to bring bloodshed ونحن ونأس نسبحوا we exalt بحمدك ونقدسوا لك we exalt you with your praise and we honor you and glorify you الله سبحانه وتعالى also in the Quran so this is that time that time before we were even created it was going on the debate were already there something old something can't be traced to a particular starting point and الله سبحانه وتعالى He told us in the Quran the dialogue and the debates that took place between prophets and their nations such as the Nabi الله نوح and Hud and Salih and Shu'aym and Ibrahim and Lot all of those prophets there was between them and their people a type of debates and also if you look at the Quran there are discussions of مشركي قريش with the messenger عليه الصلاة والسلام when they came to the issue of affirming affirming that the creation will be recreated again or we resurrected sorry that we will be resurrected again from the dead also affirming الله is the only one who should be worshipped alone and also affirming and the messenger الله عليه وسلم is a prophet and a messenger sent from Allah all of this if you look at the Quran you find that they were arguing about it then when you look at أصر الصحاب and the companions the companions of the messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم they debated in many different fields they debated in matters of مسائل ومسائل فقية they debated in it and they also even debated in which وعقدي عقيدا related matters for example if you look at the discussion that took place between أبو بكر and عمر in the issue of حكم مانعي الزكات those who refuse to pay the الزكات أبو غيرا narrated and the hadith is created by أبو خاريا مسلم لما توفي رسول الله when the messenger died وستخلي فأبو بكر بعده when the messenger died وكفر من كفر من العرب and those who became disbelievers from the Arabs became disbelievers قال عمر لي أبي بكر عمر ست أبو بكر كيف تقاتل الناس how are you going to fight with these people وقد قال رسول الله when the messenger said عمر is saying this how are you going to fight with these people when the messenger said أمرت ألو قاتل الناس I was commanded to fight with the people حتى يقولوا لا إله إلا الله until they say لا إله إلا الله فمن قال لها and anyone who says it فمن قال لا إله إلا الله anyone who says this word عصم مني ماله ونفسه then his blood is secreted from him safe and his wealth إلا بحق وحسابه على الله and his accountability is upon Allah سبحانه وتعالى Allah is going to judge him it's not my job to judge him meaning after that after he comes with this it's not my job فقاله he said أبو بكا والله لأقاتل الناس by Allah I'm going to fight من فرق بين الصلاة والزكات the one who tries to distinguish between the Salah and the zakat the one who tries to pave a path where he wants to make the zakat different from the prayer I'm going to fight him for it and he explained himself he said فإن الزكات and for verily the zakat is حق المال it's the rights of the wealth والله by Allah لو منعوني عقال كانوا يأودونه إلى رسول الله والله if they refuse to give me a عقال عقال is what you now see the Arabs wear on their head the black one that originally comes from that was what they used to use for the time of the camel when you wanted to tie the camel the time on the tree the cult wise they now put it on their heads are you there so if they refuse to give me that is that worth anything it's nothing they used to give it to the Prophet and now that I have come أبو بكر they refuse to give it to me I'll fight them for it وقال تلتهم عالى منعها I'll fight with them for refusing to give it to me فقال عمر عمر said فوالله ما هو إلا أضرأيته it wasn't except when I saw that Allah سبحانه و تعالى قد شارح صدر أبي بكر Allah opened the chest of أبو بكر for this matter for fighting them فعرفت أنه الحق it became clear to me that it was the truth now and I saw and I actually saw what he did I realized it was the truth so here you can see a dialogue and a discussion going on between أبو بكر and أمر أبو بكر wanted to do something أمر came and said no and he put his point across you see that was between the Sahabas amongst themselves look at when the Pharaoh came the deviated sects the sects that the messenger warned us from عليه الصلاة والسلام that are going to emerge and come out you find a different debating and different debates were taking place starting from عبد الله بن عباس رضي الله و تعالى عنهما may Allah be pleased with him and his father when he debated and he discussed with الخوارج many different things في قضايا متعددة different issues he dealt with them with and this was a debate which I've previously spoken about so what you see here are an area of deviated groups whose deviation and their problem is basically عقيدا related it was عقيدا related here I have to stop you all and say to you something very important and that is a lot of people push this narrative and this argument which is عهل السنة والجماعة are people who don't debate and they don't know what debating is okay and this is incorrect this is incorrect المتكلمين if you look at people of and even this contemporary time that we're living you find people say that عهل السنة والجماعة are only against debating they are they slaughtered any debate that is and they are not they say إنهم ليسوا أهل النظر all they do is quote حديث they don't know how to debate their points that's what they say and they don't have the ability and the art and the power to dialogue and discuss and argue and bring their points forward and this is attributed to قديمة before not just now before and we say to that speech that speech is incorrect ليس صحيح it's not correct and it's not right and what shows that that is not correct and it's not true and it's not the case many matters one many matters show that the first matter that shows it's not the truth is the Quran that we have with us today okay and the سنة the سنة and the طريقة the path of the companions all of them has shown us in many different ways debates argumentations dialogue with those who oppose the truth and as you would know as أهل السنة والجماعة they actually follow those three they follow the Quran they follow the sunnah and they follow صحابة ورسول الله the companions of the messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم the path which they please with طريقة الكتاب والسنة وسلاف الأمة and so if this is found in the Quran and the sunnah and it is found in the path of the companions then أهل السنة والجماعة are the first to accept it and they are the first to recognize it and acknowledge it so that it's not right for anyone to come and now say that they refuse it and that they are against it when it is what fundamental verses in the Quran fundamental verses آيات which صلى الله عليه وسلم have shown this matter the second reason why this statement is incorrect is and shows you that it's a lie what this statement carries that أئمة أهل السنة the leaders of أهل السنة the people in which they follow the leaders of أهل السنة are they are ones who have gone into discussions and dialogues they debated they went to different dialogues with different groups and different people and rather you find it more in أئمة أهل السنة than you find it in anyone else to be honest and anyone who reads the biography of the أئمة and أوائل the early generation you will find it جليا لديهم clear crystal clear notate or dust on it that they were debaters and that they debated you all know the very well-documented debate which ألمام ابن أبن عز الحنة who brings in his شارح of عقيدة الطعاوية أبو حنيف رحمه الله when he debated those who wanted to debate with him regarding the issue of regarding the issue of Allah's existence سبحانه هو تعالى and he debated them رحمه الله and also look at the debates of ألمام الشافعي رحمه الله which we will touch on later بيبن الله الكريم ألمام الشافعي if you look at كتاب الأم ألمام الشافعي رحمه الله there are debates that you see him debate محمد حصل الشيباني which is referred to it was called what this is a this is actually a famous well-known method in فق which is called الجدل الفقي في الأصوأ ما في كلام المتقدمين الجدل الفقي ألمام الشافعي and debated محمد حصل الشيباني الماتظة فق very well documented also he debated مع هؤلاء البدع حفص الفرد for example ألمام الشافعي debated him and I'm arguing with him and he proved him that what he's saying and what he believes is misguided and he's against the methodology of the messenger عليه الصلاة والسلام you finally mad أحمد رحمه الله إمام أهل السنة والجماعة he's called he debated the متكلمين and the معتزل of these time he debated them not only with textual evidences no he didn't just debate them with على أدلة الشرعية كتابنا سنة he even debated with them بالأدلة العقلية that led to that leads you to لما في الكتاب السنة that which is the كتابنا السنة so عليه سنة والجماعة were using rationality and they were using the textual evidence كتابنا and the سنة for example look at this example أليمام أحمد رحمه الله when they said to him if you guys are affirming الله all of these characteristics then something is they deducted and they reduced and sorry they extracted this misunderstanding which is then what would come from this is بتعدد القدماء if you say الله سبحانه وتعالى that you are actually affirming one who is old one who is actually old sorry one who is who's got characteristics and then that characteristics you're saying is so much then that means there's more than one God that you're affirming due to the many characteristics that you're giving to Allah سبحانه وتعالى أليمام أحمد رحمه الله he said to them in response to that the thing that were الله سبحانه وتعالى who were describing is one that that is one the characteristics are a lot that means الله سبحانه وتعالى is one and the characteristics are a lot and he gave an example of the tree there's a root there's a branch it has this and it has this but it's all one it's only one tree just like a one person can have so many different characteristics a person can be tall he can be black he can be skinny he can be this all of those are just one person I'm describing okay this is what this is Imam أحمد رحمه الله trying to prove his argument based on what بالأديلة العقلية المؤدية المؤدية لما في الكتاب السنة he's proving his argument rationality in a rational manner improving it based on the كتاب السنة and then if you go and you read the كتاب الرد على الجهمية by Imam أحمد himself رحمه الله you'll find many examples or the استدلالات أن المناقشات the evidences and the arguments that are up forth in which he debated with أهل الباطل the innovated people و لذلك الشيخ الإسلام has a very powerful statement and his كتاب تنبيه تنبيه الرجل العقل paid for he says كان آئمة الإسلامي he said آئمة of Islam the leaders of Islam such as أحمد أحمد نسحق من الله عليب المديني and the likes of these people they said أن شافعي أنا بوحنيفا كان آئمة الإسلامي ممتتلين لأمر المليك العلم that they were following the command of Allah سبحانه وتعالى which is what و جادلهم that command they were following it these imams these scholars they were ones who were following the command of Allah يجادلون أهل الأهواء المدلة so they would debate the people of desires who are misguided حتى يردوهم إلى سواء المله so that they can bring them back to the correct method to the correct path so they can bring them back to the correct path and he also even said وأما جنس المناظرة والنظر فهذا لم ينه السلف عنه مطلقة بل إذا كان بالحق فقد تقول المناظرة واجبة تارة ومستحبة الأخرى يقول أن المناظرة في وضعها ليس شيء في السلف وعن نفس المال لقد حديث وقت سيأتي لا it's not بل رابع فإذا كان بالحقي وإذا كان المناظرة وإذا كان المناظرة وإذا كانت مباشر وإذا كانت مباشر وإذا كانت مباشر وإذا كانت مباشر فقد تكون المناظرة واجبة بل يمكن أن يكون جمال لأنه يكون حرام أو تحبس. يمكن أن يكون حقاً ببعضة. هذا ما يقال. يذهب إلى تقول واجبة تارة ومستحبة أخرى. ويكون مجدداً رقماناً ومجدداً يكون رقماناً يا أخي تبيت. ويذهب إلى تقول والسلف لم يحرموا معرفة ذلك. إذا كانت تبيت مجدداً يكون حقاً ببعضة أو لا. ماذا سيأتي؟ سيأتي ويأتي أن تعرف المستحبة عن المستحبة ومستحبة سيكون شيئاً يجب أن تجاهلون. ونعلم. إذا كانت شيئاً يمكن أن تصل إلى واجب ويجب أن تذهب ومستحبة كما يقول بالاية المستحبة إلا به. فهو واجب. إذا كانت تصبح بلغتاً سيكون يجب أن تتعلم هذه المستحبة. أحبت أخياء والسستحبة هناك أشياء عندما ترى المستحبة خصائص والجدالة عند أهل السن. أهل السن لديه مستحبة ومستحبة طريقة طريقة طريقة المستحبة ومستحبة كانت مميزة مستحبة ومستحبة التي لا تجد في أخر المستحبة والأخر المستحبة في مستحبة ونحن أتكلم عنها المستحبة التي كانت المستحبة المستحبة المستحبة المستحبة التي تقللوا ومثلت بها ومثلت ومثلت في حداية الخصم ومثلت إلى الله لقد تحاولوا أصدقائهم إلى الله ومتنقلوا ومتنقلوا من الأسفل كانت تريد أنهم كانوا أنتحاولوا برؤية عن نفس المستحبة ومتنقلوا ومتنقلوا إذا كانوا تقريبا سأتعود إلى الله ومتنقلوا كانت قرية ومصر أنكم أخوة كانت الماقب ليست ونحن أنت أنت كانت their goal كانت ارضاء ان يؤسسوا على رحل السنة والجلان. لتسلول الله المستفعين by being able to guide this individual. So that's the path that's what they were looking for. And to bring this person back to the truth. That was a distinct characteristic that they hold. The second is انهم يحالي سونة على تقليل من الكلامي مستطاع. اهل السنة والجماعة. They didn't like talking a lot. يتكلمون أقل منقل المنim they would not allow their speeches to go for long they would summarize their points as short and as what and as precise as possible so the minimum in which they can get their point across and their intent is understood is what they would take that's what they used to strive towards they didn't like this تطويلوا الكلام where their speech is unrestrictedly said and it's just you become a lecturer and the other person becomes a lecturer that wasn't their intent, their intent was that which is little but gets to the point and of course this is the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم his way in which he used to do in his speech when did he say I was given a summarized speech when we say what do we mean قليل المباني عظيم المعني the word is very little but the meaning is vast and it's great and it's big so in your debate you don't leave that prophetic way when you speak you speak very small and you get your point across the third one is أنهم لا يكترون من التكلفة they don't entertain the idea of تكلف تكلف here means overburdening yourself making yourself come across as what you're not that's not what they were you find some people they have تكلف in their speech when they talk the words that they like to use it's big words they look for the biggest of the words you see they like to posture themselves in a way when they're debating if it's from your norms to talk like this or you stand and that's the way you talk when your body language is like that then if this is the way you are then this is normal but if you're doing تكلف this is not you they wouldn't do that and that's very common in many people it's very dangerous for you to do that because it doesn't last for too long المتشبع بما ليس فيه كلابي ستوبة يزور if you pretend to be what you're not you really don't last for too long so Mali they say a walk that isn't yours you can't pass three steps if it's not your type of walking and it's not how you generally walk okay after three steps you just can't carry on anymore maybe three is not the right number but it just means the idea of carrying on something it won't be there the fourth distinct characteristic which is that that they are intact they are they consistently stick to good etiquettes in their debates and their arguments they try to do that and they are debating they observe good manners they observe the good way of talking so they come with the etiquettes of debating and arguing and sometimes you listen to and the person is talking and as he left the gathering it's so long that this person is talking for he does not interject he doesn't interrupt and he's quiet he just lets the person finish their point and then he talks and he gets his point across and and the ability to articulate his point as soon as he gets over it and how he makes sure that when he finishes his point he's responded to a person who said so many different things it's عجيب so Muhammad Nasser the Dealer and his debates are profound profound and the way he gets points across and the way he's able to to make the individual who's talking to him be engaged with his dialogue and he wouldn't speak and do a lecture and make you listen to that he wouldn't do that he would only bring you in and he would ask your question and he would well answer from you and all of his his methods that he used to use oh speak about that time gives it to us today the fifth distinct characteristics which is أنهم يحذرون في المجالات من تلك المصطلحات والألفاض المجتركة والمجملة when it comes to debating they stay away from ambiguous terms there are some terms that consist in it تشتبنوا على معاني حق ومعاني باطلة some words they have truth in it and they also have false in it أهل السنة والجماعة they don't come with words which are ambiguous when they know there's a word which is click and meaning is understood by everybody sticking to ambiguous words and using that is not what they do and the way to do that is to take terms which are set by the Sharia and if you look at the majority of the debates today you'll find that the biggest reason is definition of words you'll find the biggest reason why people's debates is not heading towards success is because terms are not being defined what do you mean by this word what's the definition based on this word and who preceded you in this definition okay so this is terms like that they like the idea of using terms which are ambiguous so while he's debating with you the term has this meaning and this meaning both in it so he's jumping one time from this meaning and sometimes he's jumping from that meaning and he just keeps using that one term you need to strip that from him and you need to make sure that when you say this term it has this meaning in it and list which one of those do you mean and when he says I mean that say let's not use this word anymore let's use this then but he knows what you're using are you there number six the sixth is the distinct characteristic of their debate is that they are they are consistent upon different types of acts of obedience in their way they carry themselves in their actions and etc in other words are not people who bring everything onto part of or they don't enter the religion only from one part and make that no they actually take the religion wholeheartedly and what that means by his brothers you find a group of people who are only debaters nothing else and that's when he's made his religion he doesn't have to delete some تعليم he doesn't educate and teach the people he also doesn't he's not known for his other acts of obedience three years is just a debater this is not what I have as soon as distinct characteristics are they have different types of obedience they use this method they use this method of teaching as well they're not just consistent upon debating and arguing they also educate the people there are some people who don't want to debate with you they don't want to argue with you they just open minded they just want to take on points fresh newborn youngsters kids youths the doubts hasn't come to them yet they're open minded they want to take it from you you're dismissing those people and you're waiting for them to turn out to be argumentative individuals and then you can debate them so all you're going to do is just does that make sense you're missing out a generation or a group of people whose mind is open for whatever you want to call in there does that make sense because the ones who want to debate with you are some majority of the time are people who have a preconceived notion that they're already there they believe in something so they're coming to you with a belief that's there so it's not from the path of هلسلنا to always just focus on those type of people they also focus on the others and the other people out there the seller for her they warned against now we've finished that point they said if they warned about some types of debates they said this debate is not they should be done the first one is debate on things debating in matters that there's no benefit in it once you both come to a conclusion what's going to happen after that are you with me brothers are you with me brothers this debate that me and you are having right now it's truly from the the discussion this issue having a dialogue about it is really baseless there's nothing that's going to happen there's no thumb that's going to come from it there's no food that's going to be taken out of it it's just going to be debated and we walk away and I feel like nowadays what you find is that a lot of people that entertain this idea of that kind of debate that everybody wants to make a debate out of something something is the truth the way to deal with it is turn away as Allah SWT وعرض عن الجاهل turn away from those who are ignorant we don't know those ignorant when you hear that I've been spoken about are the ones who are ignorant who think they know the ones who have جاهل مركب a compound ignorance the ignorance is that they believe they know but they really don't know turn away from them because what He wants to debate with you is things that if we do get up and we leave we're not going to bring about any difference on it and there's no fruits that are going to come out of it so as they warned against those kinds of debates and it does fall under time wasting second type is that they warned against is the debate of a person who is not مؤهلا بعلم الشراعي الصحيح the person who doesn't have Islamic knowledge he doesn't understand the Kitab he doesn't understand it and the scholars they warned against that that person he's not permitted nor is he allowed to go into debates because he has no foundation to go back to when the debate kicks off the debates don't have a script that you're going by the debate is not about script the debate goes off topic we will go to other issues they speak about what you guys weren't talking about they jump from there to there and your knowledge of the the sharia has to be very vast and if the debate goes into language you have some understanding of the language if the debate goes into أصول الفق you have some understanding of أصول الفق if the debate goes into عقيدة you have some understanding of عقيدة that if the debate goes into what you call it you have some knowledge of that that you're all rounder basically not that I'm saying you have to be an elite and you have to be a master in all of those not necessarily going to be the case but you have some understanding where you've got foundations of bringing everything back to and so that's why that person who doesn't have that foundation would tend to find that he may be good at this particular point he might not have to debate this particular point but who assured you that the debate is going to stay that way who said to you that the debate will not move from that are you with me especially when the matter is شريعة related you need to know that the شريعة didn't divide these things like فق عقيدة أصول عقيدة because it was done later to make the matter easy for the people and the شريعة is open to each and every one of them they intermingled they're all connected are you with me they're all connected they're all stem from what two sources سنة are you with me brothers so you're going to be in an ocean of problems if you don't have علم شرعي you don't have the understanding of the شريعة your debate is not going to be right so the scholars سلاف وهادي وموود against that type of debater he should not debate