 Okay, we're back. Welcome to Global Connections on Think Tech here on a given Thursday. I'm your host, Jay Fidel. Our show today is called Fresh Back from China. It's a conference in China. We talk about on the ground how well is China emulating the American way of life and the way of academic life and why the Chinese and how hard the Chinese are working to emulate our way of life. If you want to ask a question or participate in discussion, you can tweet us at Think Tech HII or call us at 808-437-2014. Our guest for the show is Elizabeth Sectoris of Shamunad, Shamunad University, visiting professor in wait, I get it, wait, business and business and... Not visiting, in residence. In residence, professor. Pardon me. He's been there a long time. He's been residing there a long time. Business and communications in Shamunad. And somewhere along the line, she decided and had this opportunity to go back to China because she was there in 1993. 73. Let me think. That was right after the Cultural Revolution. During the end of it. During the end of the Cultural Revolution. And now she goes back in 2017. Can you imagine how your mind is blown by looking at China after that period? I just want to tell you, I went to China the first time in 2003 or 2004. And it blew my mind. The energy, all these people moving at a high, high rate of speed, doing everything they did at a high rate of speed. It was completely a mindblower to go there. And it changes you when you go to China. You realize that there's another side to this world and it's a world of tremendous energy. They have something je ne sais quoi that is not duplicated anywhere else. So let's talk about why you went in the first place and why you went back. Right. Well, the first time I went, I was part of a delegation of Science for the People scientists. And we were invited by the National Science Association of China. And they gave us an incredible six week tour in 1973. Still Cultural Revolution time. The streets filled with people, that energy you describe. There were more people in the streets than the now. Now they're in their middle class housing, right, relaxing themselves watching television. If you turned around in the streets of Shanghai suddenly you'd see a thousand people following you because they hadn't seen any of us long noses in their whole lives. So Joe and Lai was in part responsible for, at least he was responsible for alerting certain people in the government that I was there because he had invited a friend of mine from New York in 1971. And then Nixon came in 72 and we went in 73. Wow, that was history making. Part of that trip we rode in the train car they made for Nixon. It had pale blue velvet upholstered seats, blonde wood, white lace curtains and whatever cars they had at the time they all had white lace curtains on the windows and only professional drivers. So there were a handful of them. Well, when I went back now, interestingly I saw my Honolulu friends, Xiaofeng and Roger Epstein, depending on his mood, and Xiaofeng North, Michael's wife. Michael has a show here at Think Tech. And so Xiaofeng came down from Beijing to meet me in Shanghai where my first conference was. Xiaofeng is related to Joe and Lai too. She is his great niece and she loved the idea that I had meetings with government people in China then because of Joe and Lai and that now she as great niece of Joe and Lai was going to welcoming back, she's trying to get me to come live with her in Beijing. So the only thing recognizable in Beijing was Tiananmen Square, which they still don't allow cars to cross. So it's still this wide open expanse and then that old government building is still there with the big picture of Mao on it. And so of course I got my picture taken there. Of course. Mao in the background. Of course. Yeah, Mao in the background. I was hoping for one with Joe and Lai. We did find a Joe and Lai picture in the store. Oh, Joe and Lai, you're not going to find him living though. Neither one. Neither one. No, they're both looking on from elsewhere. But they are, you know, strong figures in China. They're both beloved, respected figures even now today. Well, Joe and Lai especially as the great peacekeeper and internationalist of China was very much loved and he was an extraordinary person. So, you know, we'll soon have that film in the footsteps of Joe and Lai out that the Norths are making. Right. I know they've been working on it for some time. They have been working on it for a long time. So the first conference I went to was in Shanghai and it was a actually a prep conference for a bigger one the first week of October. And the name of them both is consciousness, science, technology, society covers a lot of ground. A lot of ground. The framework is consciousness. And what we found is a great hunger among people in China to talk about things like consciousness. What does it mean to become more conscious in your world? And how does that going to affect our future? And what happens when we look at society from that consciousness raising perspective? And when we look at technology for it, can it assist us in evolving our consciousness? And, you know, so this is this is a fascinating. When you're talking about consciousness, you're not talking about self-awareness. That's not it. It's awareness of the world. Awareness. What is happening around you. There's individual consciousness and what we call spiritual awakening. Yeah, that too. So it is somewhat personal. Yes. And some of the technology that was talked about there was was like virtual reality and devices that you can put on that will drive your brain waves into a deeper meditation. Some of that looks a little bit to me like instant enlightenment. Who's who's putting this on? The the CSTS conference is hosted by a wonderful lady named Wendy Ma, who has a Buddhist center in the middle of Shanghai on a lovely tree-lined street. And she is hosting for 10 years consciousness conferences that are organized by my friend Gino Yu in Hong Kong together with Wendy herself and a team of us, including myself. We're talking about global connections here. Yeah. You know, Elizabeth has global connections. That's right. I'm a planet person. I moved away from Spain and I've lived in Greece and South America and Canada and other places. It shows. And I have some kind of destiny with China, it seems. I think a lot of people do. I think China is is magnetic, you know. It draws you in. It does draw you in. And as for the conference now, we're excited about it. The one in the first week of October will be held in the great Shanghai Expo Center, which has like 3,000 people audit for you. So I hope we'll get a really good turnout for this. And it's very, very interesting to see the ravenous interest in this kind of new world thinking, you know, that many of us are involved in. It's not just, you know, I mean, we know that there's a lot of interest in American academia in China. I mean, there's a lot of exchange back and forth in that way. And I'm not even talking about the political aspect at all. We're talking about the people. We're talking about the culture. We're talking about the people on the street. And we know there's a lot of interest, you know, in I guess in Americans, you know, I'm sure you found them as I did very friendly and warm and connecting, you know, they connect with you and a good sense of humor and all that. Yeah, I think it's always been a great interest in seeing people from the outside come in and learning about other cultures. You know, I was surprised at how few Chinese actually spoke English, because when I was there 44 years ago in 1973, all the young people were learning English from radio broadcasts every day. So I thought they'd all be speaking English. And they practice on you. They grab you, they come to you and they introduce themselves and practice their English. They did then, yeah. Not as much I found now. Now they already know the language is taught in all the schools. Now in Beijing, I saw the giant shopping malls and things like that. I mean, they have one whole shopping mall just for knockoffs. And nobody minds. My favorite label on a little scarf I bought for $2 was 100% silk feeling polyester. Silk feeling polyester. Okay, that's what turns you on. That reminds me of an old radio show in which a woman got a pair of genuine simulated pearls. Right, same thing. But you know, you mentioned something and I want to pursue that because that is the driving force of our show is, you know, their interest in the American culture, in the American community. Because they know a lot about us, but seems to me, and from what you say, I think I'm right to assume that, is that they want to know more about how we think, how we live, how we think our quality of life, our quality of our quality of life, our daily style of living, if they want to know about that. And maybe, and you can have to tell me, but maybe they want to emulate that to some extent in their own community. Yes, in a way, it almost felt like we've moved in on them. No, no, no, no. It's more curiosity than anything. I'm talking about on the surface when you walk into a mall and there's a bigger Starbucks than any you've ever seen in a bigger subway and all of the American shops is almost like, as if we were transported in a bigger version. So everything is bigger, isn't it? Everything is bigger. Everything is bigger. You know, I used to think that big things were in Texas, you know, but no, nothing. In China, things are really big. I remember in London, when they went down to medium, they were going to get rid of all this super-sized American stuff and they were advocating medium everything. How refreshing. Now, China is super-sized to our super-size, so gigantic size, whatever. Well, what I saw was, you know, there is this consumer frenzy now. It's new and it's very shiny and it's very glamorous to be shopping till you drop. And they're pushing that in China. On the other hand, what I see on the more serious side is a real interest in our more forward ways of thinking. How to evolve our culture beyond what it is today in good healthy ways. Yeah. What do you mean, healthy foods or healthy lifestyle? Yes, meditation, yoga, all of these things. Self-awareness. What's the name of the conference? And they're reviving their own Taoist practices in Qigong and Tai Chi and stuff like that. And the government is supporting that. The government does not object to that. Let's take a short break, Elizabeth. And when we come back, I'd like to look at some of your photos. We'll have a little photo album, a little tour through Elizabeth's photo album. We'll be right back after this short break. You'll see. I promise we'll be here. I'm DeSoto Brown, the co-host of Human Humane Architecture, which is seen on ThinkTech Hawaii every other Tuesday at 4 p.m. And with the show's host, Martin Desbang, we discuss architecture here in the Hawaiian Islands and how it not only affects the way we live, but other aspects of our life, not only here in Hawaii, but internationally as well. So join us for Human Humane Architecture every other Tuesday at 4 p.m. on ThinkTech Hawaii. Welcome to Sister Power. I'm your host, Sharon Thomas Yarbrough, where we motivate, educate, empower, and inspire all women. We are live here every other Thursday at 4 p.m. And we welcome you to join us here at Sister Power. Aloha and thank you. Aloha. I'm Tim Apocha, host for Moving Hawaii Forward, a show dedicated to transportation issues and traffic. We identify those areas where we do have problems in the state, but also the show is dedicated to trying to find solutions, not just detail our problems. So join me every other Tuesday on Moving Hawaii Forward. I'm Tim Apochella. Thank you. Okay, we're back live with Elizabeth Satoro. She's a professor, a doctor professor at Shamanad. She is a professor in residence in the School of Business and Communications there. She just came back from a trip to China to a special conference. And we want to find out what she did because she's a kind of person. She's a global person. She thinks of global terms and connections. And I guess the best way to express that is with some pictures. So Elizabeth, let's look at your photo album, release some of them that you brought back and gave to us about what you were doing in China. There's you. So tell us about it. And I talk, oh, that's in one of the traditional streets that's still been preserved in Beijing. There's very little of that. And we're on our way to a set of hot tubs that float you, right? In the 1950s, when I was a graduate student, they were sensory deprivation tanks. And now they've become meditation tanks. And I think that's a very interesting turning of swords into plowshares. Okay, go ahead. And this is the glitzy shopping mall view, right? So these are these shiny white floors for miles and miles of them. You know, you could live in there and not lack for anything except this. And of course you can breathe in them because the air is nice. Right, better than the air that was outside. They're pumping good air. Outside you need an oxygen mask. Go ahead, move on. There's Xiaofeng and myself. Yes, some people will recognize her. And there's our friend Roger, Roger. And this is an area of Shanghai where there's a beautiful replication of traditional buildings in a giant mall that's all these very lovely traditional buildings. Yeah, they call it Chinatown. Chinatown in Shanghai is what it is. But all these Chinese old classical Chinese buildings, yeah. And this is my favorite picture, I think. It's a friend of Xiaofeng. A couple have a big Canadian school, an English language school for Chinese children, and we visited there. And that was fun to see that. Yeah, and this is my favorite food dog picture. And this is a typical sort of shopping street in that mall, the Chinatown mall. And this is a very interesting man named Bronislav Vinogradsky. And he is a shaman from Russia. You see his arms are full of jade and amber necklaces. Xiaofeng really drooled over those. And he's working with me on developing a Taoist seminar because he's a Russian sinologist. For over 40 years he's been translating the most ancient Chinese documents and being a deeply trained shaman from Siberian style, he could tune in to Lao Tzu and these original authors and claims that there are no good translations of these documents around. So I'm looking forward to seeing his Russian version in English so that I can read the closest thing to those original documents, wouldn't that be? And a footnote to that is there are a lot of Russians in China. There are Russian neighborhoods and communities that are Russian stores and restaurants where people speak Russian. Interesting, I didn't see those. They came from Russia a long time ago and they were permitted to settle and they have a whole subculture in Russian, in Beijing for example. Wow, okay, moving on. Is that the last one? No, now that, the guy in the pink shirt there, he is Gino Yu who is the instigator of the whole consciousness science technology society conference and these are pretty much along with Xiaofang who came to visit me there. The other gals and guy are the organizing team helpers for the conferences. This is in the lobby of a five-star hotel as Xiaofang and I are just off to Beijing for a few days. This is in Beijing or Shanghai? Shanghai. That's one thing about Pudong, Pudong has the most incredible hotels in the world. Unbelievable hotels, spectacular views. And the picture behind us is a picture of Shanghai. Of Pudong, I believe that is and coming right out of your head there, that tower. The tower, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so you know the wonderful thing about China is when they make a decision, they can carry out, implement it overnight almost and right now they are doing more to build for a clean green technological world than anyone else in the world, making more solar panels and stuff and now instead of the instant cities looking only like a batch of skyscrapers with no green at all, they're building a model forest city where steep hills are covered with buildings in between dense growth of trees and gardens and growing its own food and stuff. So they're getting with it and once that catches on, they can put a thousand of those across the map in no time at all rather than some of the ghost cities that were built because local politicians were getting credits for massive building projects without even thinking very hard about how to populate them. Right. I remember going to Tianjin and one of my trips to China, Tianjin is a tech center, a tech park, sort of near Beijing, maybe a couple hundred miles east of Beijing. It's a city and in the city is the park and as we drove through this huge, huge tech park, you can look through the buildings, you can look right through them. There was nobody inside. There were modern glass buildings that you can see from one side to the other. They were building kind of on spec, thinking that the tech industry would come there. Well, I think it was an equivalent building for credits, for political credits, because you make the GDP go up by having these massive construction projects. But they're learning. You know, this is all new and they are a very ancient culture and my interest is, how much can we revive that ancient culture in good modern ways? And one of my dreams is that that was going to be recognized as a science, not as a religion, so much as a science. Why do you say that? Why is it a science? When I first saw that Yin-Yang symbol, I knew that they understood the cosmos the way our Western physicists still don't. That to me is the endless spiraling outward of radiation and inward of gravitation coming through each other. Think of a donut standing on it and it spirals in on one side and out on the other to create itself. I knew they understood the universe as cyclic, as eternally now, as ever creating itself from within. And we have a linear universe from a big bang to no thing nest, which just isn't going to hold water that much longer, I don't think. That standard model of physics in our culture has led to wonderful technologies, but it has not led to an understanding of life. And I held some foundations of science symposia on Western science, Vedic science from India, Islamic science, and now I want to do Taoist science because Western science gives us a material universe. Vedic science gives us a conscious universe. Islam gives us a living universe, surprised to me. And Taoism puts humanity square into that universe of nature. How do humans fit themselves into nature appropriately? That's what I want to see in this world and I think China could lead the way if they get over a little bit the consumer feeding frenzy and move into what they will be really good at to build, and you know they're not a hostile culture. As you said, they're a friendly culture. They may be buying up the world, but they're not leveling it. They have the best destiny, that's really in the 19th century when people took advantage of them and they're trying to stand up now. And they are indeed standing up. But what I get is a conflict though. I mean, there's the consumer economy and that's national policy. Let's have a consumer economy. We want Chinese consumers to buy Chinese goods. We want to turn the economy faster and faster. At the same time, you're talking about a pretty profound change in thinking, emulating American thinking and lifestyle to some extent. Maybe that's part of the consumer thing. But also thinking broad, thinking philosophically. And I wouldn't use the word religion because I don't think the Chinese government likes religion particularly. But they do permit philosophical thinking. And so what we have here is an openness and an ability to change by the people, and I suppose arguably by the government too. It's all in change. And people recognize, welcome, support, participate in change. I'm not sure that's the same as in the United States. I'm not sure that we have the same sense of it. No, I think it's very different. In our culture right now, we've got a huge political divide and a huge educational divide. And I don't think that divide is as strong in China. There is some elitism now. You know, in 73, everybody who graduated from high school had to spend two years in low level jobs within the economy. You know, working in factories or waiting on tables and things. And then their work group, their peers, had to recommend them to go for higher education to make sure they would go to higher education to serve their society rather than to aggrandize themselves. And I met one woman teaching MBA programs in China. It was a Dutch woman. I met her in Holland. And she said it took eight years to move the Chinese students from wanting to serve their society to wanting to claim the corporate ladder. So that's what we taught them. And that's, I'm sorry about that, that we taught them that aspect of our culture. They had learned about education. But they'll figure it out. I think education was not as critical, important, personal education, education about the world or education looking outward. It was not as important in 1973 as it is now. I think that the individual Chinese is going to want to educate himself or herself as much as possible. I remember meeting people who spent their whole lives trying to educate themselves. They go to school, they run out of money, they work, they gain some money, they go back to school and on and on. Interation after iteration, merely to follow the educational thread. And I think that is a very valuable point for them. I agree with you. It's for self-aggrandizement more than serving the state. Well, but that's a relatively small part of the population. You want to be a better person. You want to be a more educated person and you want to be a more global person. And indeed, this whole trip sounds very global to me. And frankly, it was a bit of a new sound, very global. I never saw you in such a global mode as I see you now. Well, I love this planet. I am a planet person. I'm an evolution biologist and futurist. I'm a people watcher. I'm looking for how we can evolve into our cooperative mode. And I believe China is going to play a very, very important role in that. Wow, what a trip. What a thought. Thank you very much, Elizabeth. Thank you, Jay. Always fun being with you. I'm going to do this again. That's always. Aloha. Sajin, sheshe.