 Thank you so much for being here on this morning panel. I appreciate all of you making it out of bed early. I know that by the third day, the days and the nights get longer and longer, so it's a real pleasure to see so many of you here. My name is Matina Stavis-Gridniff. I'm the Brussels Beer Chief of the New York Times, and it's a real privilege to be moderating this very high-level panel on a very pressing issue for the European Union and its neighbors and, in fact, the world. We are, as you've been hearing for the last few days, I'm sure there is growing cognizance of the difficulty and the historic significance of the moment we're in, and few people feel and know this better than the people on this panel and the populations that they represent as elected officials. So it's really fantastic to be able to have this conversation this morning with them. I'm just going to briefly introduce everyone and jump straight into our discussion and debate. I will make sure to leave time for questions at the end, so please don't hesitate. It'll be wonderful to hear and engage from you, especially as we're blessed to finally be able to be in the same room together. So to my left, I have the President of Estonia, Alar Karris. Next to him is the Prime Minister of Georgia, Irakli Garibashvili. Further down, the Prime Minister of Moldova, Natalia Gavrijita, and, last but not least, the Foreign Minister of Austria, Alexander Schalemberg. We have been in a very intense debate and discussion that at times becomes emotional about the future of the connection between the European Union, a block of 27 countries and its eastern neighbors. The ties, cultural, historical, and obviously political, are deep, and the Russian invasion of Ukraine has brought those ties to the fore and has accelerated and catalyzed not only the aspirations of many of the people in the European Union's eastern flank, but also the existential need of those countries to align themselves ever closer to the European Union and to find a clear path to accession to the EU as fully fledged members. It's in that spirit, of course, that Ukraine has pursued EU membership, and it's in that spirit that its neighbors have also done the same. And it will be that path and the opportunities, but also the challenges and the way those prospects are perceived with the existing members of the European Union that will be really the core of our discussion today. I suppose one way to start this conversation with all of you is the European Union candidate status and a clear path to full accession, the imperative right now, or our alternative potentially new types of association with the EU, also desirable at this point. And I want to start with you, Prime Minister of Moldova, do you think that alternatives as have been floated, for example, in recent days by President Emmanuel Macron of France could be appealing, or is being a full member of the European Union a one-way street for your country? So the European Union is actually a community of values, and this is why we think Moldova should be firmly anchored in this community of values, because we believe in democratic institutions, in the rule of law, in respect of human rights. So it's a block that brings peace, collaboration, and value-based prosperity. Now, especially in these very difficult times, people need to be anchored in such a future for Moldova. So the Moldovan citizens in the last parliamentary elections voted overwhelmingly for a president, a parliament, a government that all look in the same direction, that one on a platform of reforming the justice sector, improving the rule of law, eradicating corruption, improving the way that the institutions work. And despite all the crisis, we have been working towards this goal. So Moldova has already, for example, made a number of reforms in the justice sector. Just recently, a former US federal prosecutor who is of Moldovan origin has won the competition to be nominated as the anti-corruption prosecutor. There are already plans and legislation to do external evaluation of judges and prosecutors. And all of these reforms were already underway, are very much supported by the people, and show that Moldova at its heart deserves to be part of the European Union. Now, of course, this has been a path, and we've had the association agreement, the deep and comprehensive free trade agreement. We have different fora for cooperating with the European Union. Now we welcome the possibility to participate in the European Peace Facility, and we will be receiving assistance, including for non-lethal equipment for our military, for improving our protocols, our communication, our medical services, and so on. We are discussing with the European Union on liberalization of transportation agreements, on removing of quotas for export of our goods. So we welcome any mechanism for bringing us closer together, improving our cooperation, as long as this does not replace the path to membership. And the initiative that President Macron launched, the European political cooperation framework, we think is a possibility to bring closer together faster at a political level the dialogue between the European Union and countries that are candidate countries or aspired to be candidate countries, but we think, and we have received public assurances already that this is not a replacement for the membership pathway. So we strongly believe that membership in the European Union is actually what distributes this peace stability and value-based prosperity, and we want to be part of the free world and of this EU families. Prime Minister Garibashvili, you have also sort of aspired to, you're also aspired to EU candidate status and membership. Do you share this assessment that other types of association could be attractive for Georgia provided they don't preclude or replace full membership prospects? Well, first of all, thank you very much for inviting us. This is a great opportunity to talk about the Georgia's aspiration to become a member of the European Union. It's actually a great opportunity because of COVID, we didn't have a chance to meet in person, so this is a great opportunity. Once again, thank you for this. Well, second, I want to say that, of course, Georgia has been a very reliable and loyal partner to the European Union. This is a choice of our people. It does not belong only to the Georgian government, but this is a choice. I would say this is a civilizational choice of the Georgian people. And we've been very loyal, we've been a dedicated partner to the European Union because we share the same values, same principles. In 2014, you know that we signed the association agreement. This is the main document. This is a roadmap for our ultimate goal, which is the full membership. Since then, of course, we have a free trade agreement. We have some tangible results, such as the visa for regime, which is also very important to the Georgian citizens. And of course, just recently, we submitted the application for the new membership. To respond to your question, I would say whatever brings us closer to the European Union and to the EU membership is, of course, acceptable for us. Because we have no other alternative. As I said, this is the choice of Georgian people. And we will do whatever we can. We will do the maximum in order to get closer to the European Union, to get closer to the ultimate goal, which is the full-fledged membership of the European Union. Interesting. President Karris, how do you feel about these aspirations becoming so much more urgent and so much more vital in the context of the war in Ukraine? And how do you think other colleagues of yours and your peers in the European Council help us understand the debate within the Council and at the leadership level at the EU? Good morning, everybody. And it's a pleasure to be here this morning and discuss this very important matter. To start with, I mean, Estonia has been always a very firm supporter of enlargement policy. And from our own experience, so we started this process in 2005. And it took us nine years to reach the goal. And we became a member in 2014. So it's a long process. And it is a difficult process. And to answer the question actually asked from my colleagues is whether we need some kind of different type of association before we actually become a member of the European Union. I want to be very frank, we have been proposed the same type of associations when we started our process. And we said no to this. You mean you were offered it? Yeah, we were offered it, a different kind of. And we're quite firm that we should go with this candidacy and to reach the goal as soon as possible. And we managed. So but it's always up to different countries. But if it doesn't substitute, as the Prime Minister of Moldova said, then we should discuss. But there is some kind of threat that it might be substitute actually the real candidacy or the real membership of you. So one has to be extremely careful with these kind of proposals. And help me understand why you stand on the pro enlargement side of this debate. Because we have been there. So we know how important it is to be a member of European Union. We have been extremely lucky at the time because we had very good neighbors Scandinavian countries who actually supported us and to reach the goal and to fulfill all these criteria. And this was extremely important. So that's why now the candidates countries also need friends to support this process. And we proposed Ukraine together with my colleague from Latvia and Lithuania in Poland that Ukraine should become a candidate to the European Union to give a green light. Because there is no fast check to say to start with because but it's a process and you have to have kind of green light that you to start with all these process to get as it was said. We share the same value. And at the end of the day it's a political decision. That means the members of European Union feel that you are one of us. Criteria is one thing but also this kind of feeling that yes these countries are one of us. Yes, thank you. Mr. Schallenberg, you're going to be inevitably the bad guy on this panel. I'm really curious to hear your reflection on this idea of values and political decisions versus the debate which is about no cutting corners, no fast track. And we are very eager I think to be illuminated more in the thinking of that and why the countries that have applied in this unique context can't be fast tracked at the very least into candidacy. I mean thank you first of all to invite me on this illustrious panel. I know I won't be the bad cop here. I just came from a fishbowl meeting on the Western Balkans and they're very strongly interrelated. There's one thing that's clear. The Russian attack on Ukraine has shattered, the security architecture has shattered many things we believed in since the 24th of February and this is now crunch time. And I believe the European Union has to get its act together. This is, we are entering a more confrontational phase. And this will take years if not decades. And in politics there's no vacuum. It's either we export security and stability in our model of life or we are faced with somebody else's model of life. And the fact is we have to signal very clearly that these countries have an aspiration. They're clearly anchored in the European family. They're part of our family of values and also economically. But there is no fast track. And if I just came out of this fishbowl meeting on the Western Balkans, North Macedonia has been applying 17 years ago. 17 years ago. And we are discussing now whether we open the accession negotiations finally with them and Albania. So if you talk about Estonia, if you talk about Poland, at that time it was actually extremely quick, even crazier. Now if we had dealt with those countries the way we deal now with the Western Balkans and the way we are conducting the discussion, we start in conducting the discussions on Ukraine, on Moldova and Georgia, this is not very promising. And I believe what we have to do in this crunch time is to get away from these templates we have. The templates of full accession with lengthy cumbersome accession process, which might take years if not decades. Then you have the association agreement and you have the economic area nobody's talking about, by the way. And what our approach is in Austria is we have to make it tangible. We have to make a geopolitical, enlargement is the biggest geopolitical instrument we have and the strongest we have. But giving candidate status and then nothing happens for the years afterwards is not working. And we are seeing it in the Western Balkans, growing frustration, people are looking elsewhere and we are confronted there with developments we don't like to see. And we shouldn't repeat the same mistakes in Ukraine and Moldova and others. I believe what we should think about is a gradual integration. To have an etiquette as candidate country does not change anything for the people on the ground, does not solve any problem, doesn't bring you an inch closer to the common market. And I believe we have to think in you about the neighborhood policy. We have a responsibility as European Union. And yes, there is a confrontation going on and we have to act accordingly. Right, I wanna talk a little bit more about the component of reforms and the economic element. Let's not forget what the EU primarily was about and it's in process of becoming something different. But I wanna pick on something you just said that there's a fear here of false hope and sort of tokenistic gestures that don't mean anything. And we've seen the frustration in the Western Balkans and we've also seen how citizens as well as governments are very affected and feel frustrated with political and social ramifications. Isn't there also a risk in this very, very unique, difficult moment for the EU to not do the symbolically important thing for these heads of government who are bringing their people with them and telling them we are members of the European family, this is our future. We are looking one way and that is that way. And in this very moment, the EU says, sorry, we'll find a different structure for you. Isn't there a risk that you're gonna lose them because you didn't do the symbolic thing? I fully agree with you. We have to, we observed, maskers looking at Beijing and others. And we have to act, and symbolism is a political PR, if you might call it, is part of it. But it cannot be the solution. It's not the solution. We have to think harder on what we actually mean just to grant a status of candidate country. And then nothing happens in 2023, 24, 25, 26. That's a very bad signal. And then we create frustration. It's a management of expectations. So yes, symbolism, absolutely. And I believe this European Council is an extremely important Council. And what we Austrians are saying is we have responsibility, not only towards our countries of the former Eastern partnership, but also to the Western Balkans. So if we talk about Ukraine and Moldova, we have, in Georgia, we have to talk about Bosnia-Herzegovina, we have to talk about North Macedonia and Albania, and we have to talk about Kosovo. So this is our approach that we have as European Union, a responsibility in our neighborhood. And again, as I said beforehand, either we start exporting stability and security and prosperity, or we will import insecurity and instability. What do you think about that? Well, I don't like to see these as a symbolic step. So I guess this war in Ukraine has also changed quite a lot of the mindset and people's thinking of his candidate countries how to proceed, to deal with all these economic problems, security problems and so forth. And I am a strong believer that this war, it's a pity that we needed the war to start discussing these quite tough topics. But as I said, I believe it's not symbolic, it means this country's really now realize it is important to step forward, first of all. And secondly, for us, it's important as members of European Union that we don't have these kind of gray zones in Europe. And we should avoid these kind of zones in our close neighborhood. Interesting. Prime Minister, let's talk a little bit about the actual steps your country would need to take if it got candidate status. Because that's actually when the difficult work begins. And it's not always gonna make the leader very popular. The reforms can be very burdensome. So, what would you see as top priorities for Georgia and also what kind of support would you be expecting for your country in this context? Well, first of all, I think we should take into consideration the expectations of the people. I wanna talk about Georgia and I want to talk about Georgian people. More than 80% of our population support this idea that Georgia must become member of the European family. And this is not a choice, again, I want to repeat, of our government. We have been striving, we have been trying to become, to get close to European Union for centuries. We didn't start it in 2014 when we signed this decision agreement. Instead, we've been trying to become a member of the civilized Europe and world for centuries, as I said. So now we need to manage the expectations of our people. Because from our perspective, how we see this process because we believe that we've been, as I said, we are very loyal to the European values, principles, we're doing democratic reforms. We're doing all necessary things that is into the association agreement. We have fulfilled 45%, more than 45% of the association agreement has already been fulfilled. We have embarked on a very ambitious reforms agenda. Since 2014, we've been doing lots of improvements in every direction, whether this is rule of law, judicial reforms, open government, or in every direction we have huge progress. We have tangible progress, and people see it. So now the question is whether we raise this expectation, we tell our people that Georgia will get this, as it was said, symbolic, let's say, political, let's say, declaration, and acknowledgement that Georgia is part of this European family, or we should explain to them that it's not the right time, maybe we should consider it later, or we need to see action now and today. Because as it was mentioned, it's a different world today. What has happened in Ukraine, it's not a challenge to only Ukrainian security. This is a challenge to the entire European security architecture. And I want to remind you about the war that we had in 2008. At that time, I have to mention regrettably that we did not see such unity that is today. We welcome this unity, this is great, this is a very strong, let's say, reaction of the entire world, of the civilized world. But with the Georgians, we paid a very high price since we regained our independence. We had two wars in the 90s when we regained our independence, one in Abkhazia, in Ossetia, and 2008, a large-scale war with Russia. And the result of this war is temporary occupation of territories, of historic territories. Now, we understand the concern that exists in the European Union, because as minister mentioned, that I want to import all these problems, let's say, into the European family. But we also understand that given, granting the candidate status does not mean given the membership, right? It's still a long process that was mentioned by the president of Estonia. It's a long process, we understand it. And we have our homework, which is the association agreement. So that's my point, but we need clarity, and we need adequate and relevant reaction from the European Union. Prime Minister, clearly from your intervention earlier, you mentioned several reforms that you yourself have also initiated in the same spirit as the Prime Minister of Georgia has just been talking about. Can you tell us a bit more about why the EU, sort of being closer to the EU in this moment, is so important to Moldova? In particular, I suppose, considering the Moldova's own security concerns with Transnistria, as well as the incredible assistance your country's offering to Ukrainian refugees and looking to the EU. Talk to us a little more about your country's very special role in this current moment and how EU membership can help. So let me start by saying that I was in my first job and younger when the Tesaloniki agenda happened, and Moldova was considered at that time and we, as a potential candidate country, and we missed that window of opportunity, we didn't have a government that was willing to go in that direction. And my generation has lost its youth fighting, you know, for a democratic institution and maintaining this hope for European integration alive. We have a historic window of opportunity now. As you said, this is a historical crunch time. We don't know when the next historical moment of opportunity will arise. Now, it just so happens that this comes at a very difficult time for our people. Moldova is very much affected economically by the war, the unjust war of Russia on Ukraine. We have inflation that has reached 27%. I know that inflation is a problem in all European countries, but we are poorer, we are affected more significantly. We are doing everything possible to receive all the refugees and after we have received a number of refugees that amounts to 3.5% of our population, 85% of our people say we are willing to receive more because of these values that I talked about at the beginning of my intervention, because we believe that now there is this standoff between the values of democracy, of rule of law, the European values and the values of autocracy, dictatorship. So we don't want to miss this window of opportunity and several years from now look back and say, what happened to that extraordinary sentiment where there was almost a constitutional majority oriented towards pro-European reforms, towards building institutions, building a truly European state and what happened to that government that was so determined. And we will have to wait for other generations to see when this may happen. So precisely because it's so difficult, it's so difficult, first of all for Ukraine of course and all our hearts go out to those who suffer the terrible consequences of the war. There are also economic consequences for the region and security consequences for the region. For the world we have heard plenty of it at this forum. So precisely because it is so tough the people need to know that if they get through this, if they stay on the path of reforms no matter how difficult the context is, then they will be welcome in the family of European states. Again, we know that this will take time and we need to do our homework but the candidate status and the mechanism for integration actually has all the ingredients necessary to slow down the process if there's a reversal and lack of progress on certain reforms. So I would argue to what president of Estonia said that giving at this moment this historic moment of opportunity candidate status only to Ukraine would have the consequences of creating a gray zone in Moldova. Now of course we have the Transnistrian region as you mentioned in your question. This is a frozen conflict. It's been frozen for 30 years. We have illegally stationed Russian troops on that territory. But I want to say that we are in discussions all the negotiating formats that are able to meet a meeting. So we have the format where both Russia and Ukraine are present and of course that is not functional but we have the internal processes. We discuss the consequence we discuss to keep the situation stable, to ensure that the insecurity does not spill over to the territory of Moldova. We know that we would have to work on a solution with the support of our partners to the conflict in the process of integration. But again, it's exactly as Mr. Schellenberg said will the European Union be an exporter of peace and stability? Will the European Union help to resolve such situation? Will the European Union help to go on this pathway of reforms and make them irreversible? Will the European Union help these countries understand that if they do their homework if there is this progress then meritocratically they would be welcomed in the European family. Mr. Schellenberg, I'm sure that listening to these prime ministers, you will agree with me that they sound more ardently, feverishly pro-EU than some heads of government in the EU. How do you square that circle? The European Union right now has in its membership at least one government that is increasingly untethering itself from the block, even and especially in this very, very difficult moment. How can you sort of look at these countries that are saying the right things and are trying to do the right things and are existentially trying to tie themselves ever closer to the block and look at your colleagues, your neighbors and square that circle? Well, I believe that things are moving. I claim that holiday from history are over. We enjoyed a dividend of peace. We enjoyed a high degree of nativity and we have to acknowledge, and I believe everybody does that, that Russia has the potential to be a spoiler elsewhere. Maybe the Russian eyes for Moscow are not only in Ukraine. You know you're fair share, my friend, about this, and we have for the public a sipsk, we have other places, reaching from Libya, Syria, all along in the neighborhood of Europe. And we have, as European Union, and that's what I'm saying, we have to rise to this task. And it's a political, it's not bureaucratic, it's not legalistic, it's not looking down the Aki community line by line. When we, when the European, if you look at the history of European integration, Greece joined in 81, 1981. It was about, you know, fostering and strengthening a young democracy. Spain in Portugal, 86, the same thing. Had we dealt with enlargement in the 2000s the same way we are doing it now, then probably Poland and then Romania would not yet be members of European Union. And we understood at the time it's about crossing the Iron Curtain and we have to do the same now. And I believe that many capitals and most capitals, if I look at the debates we are having, also in Paris, the French Presidency now is, and I have high hopes in the French Presidency and the run up to this European Council that we know that we have to get our act together. And yes, we're always very good within the European Union to, you know, spill out publicly our differences and discussions. But we have a very strong sense of unity and I'm sensing that in every meeting. And my hope is that this geopolitical moment we're living through in Europe won't be over by someone. And suddenly we lean back exhausted after four months and say, wow, we were good, but now back to the good old bad times. And maybe Ukraine, I mean, it's like a shock therapy we're living through. It needed, and luckily it seems it needed a war and a shock like this to make us believe or understand that this is more than just number crunching and directives and regulations which have to be implemented in the member states. It's about geopolitics. It's about model of life. It's about, you know, systemic rivalry and challenging. And I want, I always say, I have children, I have no grandchildren yet, but if I had grandchildren, I hope I have them, that they can grow up in a society which is free, open, pluralistic, according to Charles Popper. And that's what we're fighting for and that's what we have to get to understand in Brussels. That's certainly what the Ukrainians are fighting for on the behalf of the EU. They argue that they're fighting, they're putting their lives on the line on the behalf of the European Union and those values. I want to switch gears a bit and approach this from another perspective. There's been some criticism of the concept of tying the membership futures of your two countries to Ukraine's membership. Do you think that's fair criticism, President Karris? I wanted to say it's kind of misunderstanding that Estonia and our partners said that Ukraine should become a candidate. So it's a, applies to Georgia and Moldova as well. So it's not only Ukraine. But of course, just to recall, when we started our process, we Estonians also felt and we started first. And Latvia and Lithuania were behind. And we really believe that we are the only one from a Baltic country who become a member of European Union. But it turned out that in the end, we all joined the European Union together. So it might happen here. So the process started now because of war with Ukraine. But you also have the applications you sent in and the process probably will start. And we shouldn't lose this momentum. Not only because it's war in Ukraine, but what was said, so many people in these countries, they are pro-European Union. It's in 90, 80%. It's not the government business. So it's people from these countries want to join European Union. Just recall, when we started, this was less than 50%. That means our president at the time had to go from tour step to store step to convince people that European Union is something we should already appreciate and join. So it's a different time and different story. So we shouldn't lose this momentum that these people want to join European Union. I wanna have a look in the room and see if there are questions here. Sure, please go ahead. Do we have a microphone please? Thanks so much. If you can just tell us your name and make sure there's a question. Thank you. Thank you very much. Daniel Ksutin from the Global Shapers Hub of Lviv in Ukraine. So if I'm talking about my generation in Ukraine, European integration has been a dream since we remember ourselves, right? Since we're very little. And I was wondering, Mr. Schoenberg, maybe you have an advice for the Ukrainian youth. What can we do to advance the European integration agenda in our countries? It's also relevant for the youth of Georgia, of Moldova. I'm very impressed of what the youth has been doing already beforehand before the war. And when each time I visited Kiev and I was there repeatedly, the NGOs, the civil society, grassroots movements, which are so important. And that's the best thing you can do. Your constituency is your country and you're the future and you have to make sure that it reforms. And you're not doing it because of the European Union. This is something we repeatedly say in the war of Balkans as well. As you're doing it for your own sake. You want rule of law, you want separation of powers, you want checks and balances. And this is what you can do best to be the loud voice, to pressure the governments and the representatives to get back together. And it's not about the European integration. It's because you want Ukraine to move forward. Any other questions or thoughts from the room? Please, by all means. One again, thank you for very interesting discussion. I'm from Armenia with the president's office and I guess we're also part of the neighborhood process with our own painful circumstances. So the question is the following because the process with acceleration, fast-tracking, et cetera will take time. And meantime, this neighborhood by itself is a status which requires probably some relations or some, let's say, concessions on both sides. It could start with better trade relations. It could start with political, military, whatever, different umbrellas and step by step getting there. So what will be the perspective from Moldova or Georgia? I mean, like the process now, before like entrance to European Union, how you feel your relations with European Union and what European Union could do to help you to get in the under current circumstances in a better shape. Sure. I guess this is one for you too. You know, even before this historic window of opportunity opened, Moldova, Ukraine and Georgia formed an associated trio because we moved at a different pace. We, both our people and our governments had a different approach towards the European Union and bigger ambitions. So, you know, this is why we are actually now talking about these three countries is because these countries are at a different place. Now, I believe that for other countries, there is a moment of introspection as well. We see that the world order is changing and so I am sure this will lead to, you know, the internal discussions and the conclusions in neighboring countries and there will be a process that results out of that. Right. Can I ask for some closing thoughts, President Harris? Well, I think it's, actually for the record, I got five grandchildren. So it's very extremely important what's going to happen in the future in Europe. And as I mentioned already, we should avoid these gray zones and give hope to these countries. And it's up to these countries and people in these countries how fast this process is. And I just wish you all luck and any assistance you need from European Union, members of the European Union, just ask. Well, I think with that I'll just, I'd like to thank everyone for being in the room. I'd like to thank you for your honesty and the passion with which you've spoken today on behalf of your people. Thanks so much for what I think was a nuanced debate in a really important moment for the future of the Eastern Partnership and of course for the future of the European Union. Please, please Prime Minister. On closure, I also want to quote a famous Georgian scientist and a co-author of the European Constitution, Mr. Michel Musrali-Shwili, Michel Musrali. He said, Georgia knows that it belongs to Europe. Now Europe should make conclusions. That's my last comment. That's an apt conclusion. Thank you so much. Thank you.