 Mortgage rates being high and the home builders are probably sitting here thinking let's not get too crazy here I'm like give me as many as I can buy when it gets down to the people that need to There's there's nowhere else to go Ladies and gentlemen make some noise for Ricky He is an investor a speaker and Soon to be remembered in my opinion as a legend in the industry the cool thing about what he was doing was he was Documenting everything like he would post his calls his work. He was putting in strategies. He was sharing everything There's so many people who own a house Who want to badly move up 100 million dollar rate cap in 2020 was 23,000 three year three percent rate cap now It's 2.3 million for one year deals are a little harder to find now because of interest rates But there are out there. I get a zero percent cash on cash return for a half a million bucks I'm like, I'm not doing that deal Can you imagine how easy it's gonna be to sell real estate if prices go down? 20 30 40 percent if the inventory did affect prices People would come out the woodworks if you want to build cash flow you invest in real estate You don't just sell real estate making calls calling for sell by owners and expires They want a fixed payment and they want to build equity welcome to another edition of lifetime cash flow through real estate investing I'm Rod Cleef and I'm thrilled you're here and I know you're gonna get tremendous value from the gentleman I'm interviewing today is my friend Ricky Coruth and if you don't know who Ricky is he is a top shelf real estate agent He's done a half a billion in sales, but he teaches other agents how to kill it You know in the real estate space and you're wondering well, what are we gonna talk about? We're gonna talk about a lot because he's building multifamily. He's great at sales. He's great at marketing He's got a kick-ass Instagram account And so there's a lot of things we can talk about that'll add value to you regardless of if you're doing single family or not So welcome on the show brother. Thanks for having me, bro. Yeah, of course man So, you know, why don't you why don't we start? You know like like most people start and just kind of give us a little background on Who you are and expand on you know, what I just said Yeah, absolutely. So I live in Gulf Shores, Alabama. Hmm, right right on the beach. Nice. So you've seen pictures of it, right at the You did you saw my talk at at wealth con, right? No, I know I wasn't in the room for got you So yeah, I showed a picture of Gulf Shores. So it's basically it looks like Sarasota on the beach Nice the difference is like on the beach. It looks about the same, but then right off the beach it doesn't look like Sarasota Sarasota has a downtown area and other tall buildings and stuff and We don't really have that. We just have the tall buildings basically right on the beach Hmm. What's what's what's inland? I know you've got some some refineries and things like that up there, don't you? It's There's not a whole lot. Honestly, you know, there's it's it's growing big time. There's some really incredible schools We have an album all there's a huge amusement park. They just built Well, no kidding. Okay. There's a lot of stuff stuff coming, but it's it's a It's like Let's see every every little beach town, you know, there's Gulf Shores There's orange beach. Those are both in Alabama then the next town is pretty to key in Florida Oh, no, just right on the Florida Alabama line. Got you. Then you've got Pensacola Beach. This is a poor man's Riviera, right? I don't know if it's that's what they called it. That's what I heard it called in on the Panhandle You know, I've been I've been to Panama City and oh god. What's that town that they did the the? Oh god, what was that movie where they had the little town and they they videoed? There's Mexico City. There's There's there's there's Navar there's there was a movie where they filmed this kid Growing up through the movie and he was in this enclosure and I was just trying to think who the actor was Anyway, never mind never mind, but it was up there in one of those towns. Yeah, but that those beaches are gorgeous At least in the Panhandle. I mean, they're wide. They're white. Yeah, just absolutely. It's white powder sand Yeah, so people don't realize Alabama has beaches. Yeah, and you got beaches like that over there, too Yeah, like they haven't been out. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, it's all it's all the same beach Nice, so the Florida beaches run run into Alabama got 40 miles So we got about 40 miles of those white sandy beaches Wow, and it's always been a really small town So it's still about between both towns Gulf Shores and Orange Beach. It's still about 25,000 population Wow, but we've got eight million visitors every year that come through a lot of Airbnb and so forth there Yeah, so so it's an interesting market because it's small town on the beach. It's nice It's cool to live there and there's this massive market of You know vacations slash investors that come down and from all over the country that buy these Gulf front Condos and houses and stuff and so that's the market. I got into got it. So grew up roofing houses with my dad Oh, no kidding. Yeah, he owned a roofing business for 30 years My brother owns one and my boy was just here and he works for him And he they had hail up in Denver and he's like made a hundred grand a month for the last two months So because you know insurance pays for the roof. Yeah, but yeah, we chase storms and stuff Yeah for a little while here and there but I grew up doing that and then that's real work That has a lot to do with where I'm at now. Yeah, you know, yeah, I mean I said, you know, I just got this it's brand new roof on my compound here I didn't you probably didn't notice because they just cleaned everything out, but brand new roof But it's a it's a tile roof. Yeah. Yeah, they just finished it literally a few days ago Wow, and they have to come in and I didn't notice it. Yeah, I didn't notice it look pretty pretty good Yeah, it's brand new brand new. Yeah, it's as good as it's ever gonna look But yeah, Hurricane Ian was good to me, you know, I got the roof I get painting I'm getting all new pavers gonna look like a brand new place, but so this is how far is how far are you from? Fort Myers About 45 minutes. Okay. Yeah, that's what yeah That's what and then and then you're and then between here and there is is Venice No, there's Venice and then there's Port Charlotte. Okay now I used to be the largest single family homeowner in Port Charlotte I had about 360 houses there when Charlie hit talk about a freaking nightmare. What year was that? Oh, God, I'm bad with dates, but but it was it was in the 80s 90s. It would have been in the 90s. Yeah, but yeah, it was that would talk about a shit show. I mean it was the most Complex logistical thing I ever had to deal with I bet, you know, 360 they were all damaged everything Yeah, but you know what was interesting and I don't want to get back to your story I don't want to steal your thunder here, but what was interesting is, you know that the the the building codes and standards Really make a freaking difference because I would have houses that were built in the 60s That would have the whole garage blow away the whole roof blow away Literally I had one guy that was in his living room and everything from the ceiling line blew away So it was just daylight everywhere. He was hiding under his couch But but that would be next to a 80s build house that had a few shingles missing Mmm, I mean it was astounding to see what a difference building codes may for hurricanes But yeah, I I had a huge almost a million dollar settlement here on my compound So I'm getting read done, but of course, you know insurance has gone through the freaking rough Oh, yeah, well because of this. Yeah, but I yeah, I I don't know when Hurricane Sally hit us last maybe a couple years ago had about At that time I was at about 20 something properties All of them got hit. Yeah, I had to put roofs on half of them and I had to pay for all of it Oh, you did? Yeah. Yeah, because the insurance adjusters go in there and they'll say, okay You know, it's this much damage, right? Okay, the whole roof's totaled. All right It costs 12,000 a re-roof this house. All right, your deductibles 3500 Your roof was X amount old. So the depreciate we did we're gonna depreciate that the 10,000 or whatever So we're gonna get a public adjuster to help you a public adjuster. Yeah public adjuster you would have Those you listening if you ever have an insurance claim of any consequence hire a public adjuster because what a public adjuster does is they Fight the insurance companies and they do their own estimations and and they always make you money Yeah, I had a public adjuster down in Port Charlotte and they and we actually had to sue the insurance company But here in this compound hired a public adjuster paid him too much. I paid him 10% But but he absolutely made me money like we just had a fire in my Nashville asset 20 units And I've got a kick-ass public adjuster there that is absolutely getting our Estimate up from the insurance company. They always pay for themselves and then some yeah, but yeah But anyway, yeah, so it's no fun dealing with insurance companies And if you ever have big claim get help but shop the public adjusters because some of them aren't any good and some of them are We had a tornado destroy 101 units up in Beaver Creek, Ohio a complex I have up there and We had an awesome public adjusting company up there as well that rebuilt all 101 units literally But but anyway, so keep going with your story man. Yeah, and that's good information to know But anyway, I got in real estate. I actually I got a scholarship football scholarship to Missouri Valley College I went there for a semester too far away. It's like 20-hour drive. Oh, well, so I that was like 18 So it's like I'm I don't want you know I went there for a semester enjoyed it came back home went to Alabama for a semester fell to history class And I was like, I'm out of here. Really? Colleges wasn't my thing. Mm-hmm. I made all A's and B's in high school Sleeping. I mean I was the guy in class with my head down on the desk It was just easy for me because I could absorb the information and the tests were easy But in college especially history class, you know They're just up there lecturing and I'm just like what is this guy talking about? And what's it gonna do for me in any way shape unless you just love history, right? You know, I told that to a guy last night at dinner and he's like, well, I'm a history major I'm thinking good. Gosh. This guy is very interested in history, which it's good to be interested in history Just wasn't my interest. I was more focused at the time Just like now. I'm just more focused on trying to be productive and I felt like that was more of a You know curiosity entertainment, you know if I want to know this kind of thing It's almost like watching a Netflix movie to kind of learn history You know 67% of the people to go to college never use their degree for anything In fact, it might even be more than that and then and then of course, there's that statistic that that You know, what is it 80 90% of the people out there have have Less than 10,000 in savings and and the people to go to college have huge student loan debt and you know College isn't isn't really helping a lot of people. I mean if you're doing, yeah Pickle roll like an engineer dentist doctor or something like that college is great I didn't go to college. Well, you got to go to college to be a doctor, right? Well, you're et cetera, right, but it's Nowadays, you know, I mean it used to be had to right to have a career worth anything, you know now You know you can pretty much do just about anything you want to do Learning off of yeah thought leaders like you and I I mean I I have a picture that I show where I've got my Arms straight out and I've got lanyards hundreds of lanyards around my neck and on my arms from boot camps and masterminds and events That I've gone to over the years and that's my college and you saw my library downstairs. I've got thousands of books I'm very well read, you know college wasn't the right thing for me Is it just like it wasn't for you but we're both super successful because we have worked ethic We knew what we wanted and we just went after it, right? I still continued to to read I read, you know, I read I write You know, I'm always trying to learn and everything but you wrote a couple books, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I wrote two books in 17 Yeah, yeah, you know, I let I'll get to that I I got in no to Sell in real estate or dropped out of college and I was like I'm gonna go be a real estate mogul So I got my license I quit roofing. I was like see a dad right got on got in the office Full time for 30 days sold zero, you know said hey dad. I'm back went back to roofing Yeah, doing that at the same time So it took me eight months to get to my first deal then I started clicking to a month Love the roof went full-time made a lot of money because the market exploded. I was 020304 the market just it did a lot. It was real similar to what just happened in 21 and sure, you know 2021 but 2021 was to me a lot more violent than the market was a little more violent than 0203 Buffett's famous quote be fearful when others are greedy a lot of greed last couple of years and now the fear is coming be greedy when others are fearful Yeah, I think yeah, right. I don't know. He's coming right absolutely. Absolutely But I started flipping houses, you know, there were guys 30 40 50. I was were you doing this in the same place? Yeah, I was I was I was in my it was in my early 20s And there were guys 40 50 60, you know flipping houses and I was like, okay, here's some money So I would start flipping houses nice and I made millions and I had about two million worth of debt You know that I got caught with when I wait no it was actually 05 05 is when the market actually started coming down people think 08 It's actually 05 is when prices leveled out started coming down slowly And you know if you watch the movie the big short Great movie very accurate too. Yeah, it was You know, I lived it. Yeah, but the guys that were calling it, you know, they were betting on they were they were shorting the market and You know these The you know the the bonds that they were shorting against on the on the mortgages that they knew were bad They were still doing well, you know, even after things turned, right? So and 05 is actually when the market started turning and You know that the guys are like why aren't why aren't we making money? You know the markets going the prices are going down. We're starting to see defaults Why aren't you know, why aren't why aren't our why isn't our bet paying off here? And it took because it was because Wall Street was was patting it They were they were doing everything they could to try to act like this wasn't happening or yeah, they were they were You know doing what they could do to manipulate to keep everything and where it looked like everything was okay Yeah, I'll be honest. I didn't I didn't this is news to me I lost 50 million dollars in 2008 and I got crushed at 800 houses and got crushed But you know, of course, I wasn't paying much attention And I was recently single and I was living South Beach like an escape convict with the Condo and the Lamborghini. It was it was a shit show But but so I didn't have my eye on the ball at all. But but when I wait and happened It was like to me. It was like a light switch. Yeah, I mean Yeah, I couldn't sell my whole portfolio for 30 cents on the dollar. Yeah way. Yeah. Well, that's when everything Kind of came out, right? Yeah, that's when it was like a public publicly known I mean like lay real estate price collapse and coming down for years before that But nothing really happened with the stock market and or anything because Wall Street manipulated that situation as long as they could Until they just couldn't anymore and then because of that it crashed even harder Interesting, but yeah, okay. Yeah, if you look if you go back and look at a graph of just home prices, you know It topped out an 05 and then it went down all the way to 2012 so I sold my last condo January 05 and Of course, I had all that debt from all the houses. I was in the middle of flipping. So I got caught there I bleed it out my Savings just trying to hang on to everything thinking well, everybody was saying this isn't gonna this is you know Give it a couple months. Give it six months a year or whatever So you weren't able to flip another word you had how you had inventory you couldn't sell right? I was I was flipping and I would buy two more or to buy four more and I kept flipping and She had a little implosion when everything when everything turned I could I could basically sell I sold off most of what I had just for what I owed Right out of it. Yeah, and there were a couple that I did have to let go back to the bank more clothes on But then I was like hey dad I Go back to the roof that was 05 And that's humbling isn't it it was that's really humbling I would tell you I tell the story of my boot camps where you know, I I was flipping houses making a lot of money I lived in what would be about a two million dollar house now. I had a Rolls Royce had a Pantera Which is a Ford exotic gorgeous cars You know, I had a Corvette and and I lost everything and and I had to go paint houses to have enough money to eat And I remember my mom bringing me a bag of groceries because she was worried about me So I went from Rolls Royce to mom bringing me freakin groceries. I remember having a meltdown. It was like fuck this I'm gonna get big kick my get back on my feet and make it happen But yeah, I went back to roofing and I was like, okay, what am I gonna do? Right. I went a file bankruptcy. I had some things I had to kind of get out from under me and then I should have by the way, I didn't I should have when I let everything go I had nothing there's only two things I continue to pay for my cell phone because I wanted to keep my number and my real estate License I got my MLS fees. That's the only two things. I didn't pay car insurance payments rent utilities nothing So how long did you suck it up in the roofing before you like screw this? I need to go back to do something else. Well, actually that was 05 and 06 and then an 07 the entire year from basically January to January but hey I got a job on a olrig. No kid. Yeah in Mississippi. I was I was driving there from Alabama out there on a rig on a Rig, yeah, so I was living and it was cool because like I was actually sleeping on friends couches and sleeping in my car Wow, so when I got the job on the olrig It was cool because it was like kind of like I had a plot not only this job is gonna pay me 5g's a month, right? Working every other week so that a week off. So I'm only working half the time making 5g's I also had a place to live for a week and On my weeks off. I figured well This is a this is a way for me to get back in real estate because I forgot a whole week in between My work weeks to kind of like start really trying to Figure out how to get back into the market It didn't quite work out like that because Well, the timing wasn't good. Well when you work on the olrig it actually was good really when you work on a olrig though When you come back home You're completely shot for like you take you three four days to recover because you're working 12 hour days Wow, and every other of the every other weeks you're working either six to six at night for the whole week or 66 You know all day, so they're 24 hours It's not 24 is 12, but you're either working from six to six during the day six in the morning till six at night Or and then you go home for a week and then the next week you come back you work from six at night till six in the morning Oh, God, no, so you're messing up your sleep schedule, right? And so you're just all disc and Bobby played it. Oh, I get it every time I just got off that boot camp and I'm still I'm I'm at about 70% now And what is it today's Friday and it ended on Sunday, so I feel you so you weren't able to work the real stuff I wasn't like I thought I would I did mess around with it and stuff what I realized in 07 when I was on the rig was there was this guy that mentored me in the beginning and 02 and I realized in MLS. He was he sold 30 properties in 06 and 06 was a really bad year, you know for us, right, you know Beachfront condos, it's a luxury, you know, it's it's the first thing that people let go of when things you want not something You need right. It's the first thing. It's not primary home. It's not a necessity It's they let it go. It's the first thing to let it let go and it's the first thing It's the last thing they buy is as things get good, right? So, you know, we're kind of the first, you know our market a second home Market vacation markets really going to be the first to really feel You're like the the canary in the coal mine kind of a thing then right that which is you see because I didn't feel it at All, you know cuz rent state or state stable I really I had stopped buying because I thought it was too high at that time It's not now compared to what I what do you pay now? It's not even the same planet, but interesting So you yeah, you were kind of you you actually saw it probably before other people did yeah because because of where? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think absolutely makes sense. So kind of it kind of hit us a little differently You know a little earlier, but even when you look at national home prices They still topped out in the beginning go five and and taper down. It was just such a slow gradual decline It's like how home prices go up and down every year if you look at national home prices They go they do this every year, you know, some where they're up fall to come down It's a stair step there You know the next low is higher than the last low the next high is higher than the last high But they still fluctuate through the year, right? I've seen some of your posts on social and and you're still bullish that well tell me what you think's going on With home prices right now. I'm sorry to derail your they're pretty they're they're pretty leveled Right now. I mean, yeah, pretty much. I think I mean they're you know, they're higher. I mean, you know, there's data There's I mean just about every, you know Real estate, you know data company has us up on the a year over year, you know Like August to last August or whatever we're up like 2% or whatever the case may be But when you're looking at medium home prices and you're looking at average home prices, you know It's just like and you know, that's averaging all the markets And then you're some markets that are different than yeah, of course And then you've got different sectors in the market high and luxury and then low-end stuff And there's just so much stuff. So it's kind of hard to say. Okay. This is where it is You know Elon must get a quote where he said commercial real estate says what's gonna cause this recession But residential will follow after that. So that's that's his opinion. That's a direct quote from a guy that doesn't own a house Yeah, yeah, or is it or is it a pretty smart guy? You know or is it in the real estate, you know industry, but yeah, he's a really smart guy We'll see. Well, we'll see it's kind of like one of those things, you know throw quote out there if it comes true You're genius. Yeah, well, you know, if it doesn't then Who cares you were ready for it? You heard that one. Yeah, I heard it. Um, I I mean, you don't agree. Well, it's two different sectors Yeah, I mean agreed agreed. It's two different sectors with completely different financing terms Agreed, you know, I mean commercial is more of a floating, you know, five-year We have some of its floating some of it we do conforming debt that's more of it than The crash is the floating. Yeah, it's the bridge debt So it's gonna cause cause a problem for for for operators in the commercial and then in the commercial, right? You've got the huge office You know, that's that's a train record. Yeah, right. You got the warehouse. You got the small office, you know Like I buy 2,000 square foot office buildings. Those are great. They're amazing I mean they talk like where you've got a little office in the front. You've got a warehouse in the back Yeah, those or you know, I've got a couple that are do that are commercial duplexes Just a thousand square foot on each side. Nice, you know, I've got One that has like a really small warehouse. It's almost like a little storage unit and then about I don't know 1700 square foot of heated and cool offices and stuff They call that flex space, right? Is that what they call that? Well, I ran it out to one one Where it's flexible where you can you can expand the office or put in more warehouses stuff like that Yeah, it was actually a warehouse the whole back of it half of it was a warehouse and I finished it out as offices Got you to add more heated and cool square footage and then I left like a like I've never done any of that But I really like it and I know it does really well. Yeah, I mean forget office right now Jeez, I think the office occupancy in the country is like 70% I mean, we're gonna see massive defaults and here's the problem a third of that debt is with small and regional banks We're gonna see more bank failures too for sure and then you've got bridge debt, which is collapsing right now Man, I've seen some huge world-class operators that are in deep shit right now. They're having real problems I just saw an article in real page on somebody. I really had a lot of respect for I'm not gonna throw it out here publicly But man, I knew that he was in trouble. I saw him at wealth con at Grant Cardone's thing He came up to me. He's like, yeah, I've got 13 assets that are in trouble right now And he was freaking he just had one go back to foreclosure I just saw that in real page a couple days ago. So yeah, but back to Elon's quote, right? My point is is that that that space commercial space is completely different animal than agree But if it starts a bank collapse and it stocks it starts a stock market collapse it it to me It's it could very well be a domino thing that could bleed into unemployment and it could bleed into Into the housing market, right? Yeah, but the housing market the housing market itself is Fundamentally strong incredible. Yeah, and there's a huge pin-up demand to especially if the rates come back down. Well, I mean, here's the thing, okay? There's so many people who own a house who want to badly move, right, but they can't right What do you call that? Pint up demand right and that that group is growing every day and out of that group every day They they're desires playing why they can't just well. Well, they're sitting on three or four percent mortgage right now If they go buy a new home, they're gonna it's gonna be six and a half to seven and a half They're gonna literally double their mortgage rate just to move and they just It might not even be that they can't okay, they don't want to right now Most of them can financially, but why would you want to go from a three to a to a seven? And so this group of people who own houses. It's it's they have these what they call, you know golden handcuffs, right? They they're there that it's it's a mat like we don't even realize it and the next thing is first-time home buyers We have no earthly clue We're clueless when it comes to understanding the amount of first-time home buyers that are just sitting there that haven't even said anything because of interest rates we in 1990 There were such a spike in birth rates if you look at a 50-year birth rate, you know chart There's a spike that's massive in 1990 that stays at that level for a good decade and a half all the way to 06 or so You know if they're born in 90 that means they're 33 Right the average age of a first-time home buyers 33 to 36 So so we're looking at this massive group of 33 year olds, right this year and these people want to own homes You see these headlines saying, you know Gen Z and Millennials and you know Yeah, they don't want to buy homes they're just and then and then you read the article and you look at the data And it's literally got like 12 13 percent, you know, and they'll have it with the different It'll be like this, you know 13 percent Gen Z, you know, like, you know, 13 percent Millennials and whatever Don't want to own a house and I'm thinking well, okay. That's 12 percent that don't what about the 88 percent What about the other 88 percent do they want to yes, they do see the problem is You know, you could get a 3% loan 18 months ago and now the in mortgages is double Yeah, the prices haven't gone down to justify that doubling in mortgage, but the longer the rates stay up That were that that that retracts the these transactions and restricts the market The more demand is gonna be the more the more demand is building and it's gonna just be that bigger of an explosion Yeah, when it goes the other way, you know, so through first-time home buyers and Sellers it's shit. We don't even Like it's it's nothing. We've never even seen anything like this and what's gonna happen is that the trade-up seller They'll list their home. Okay, which adds to inventory and the new listing But they're also gonna take a home off the market as they upgrade Right, they're gonna buy they're gonna sell they're gonna buy which is gonna be a net even right Fractive listings and then the first-time home buyers are gonna come in and take one off Which would be a net negative for active listings. So what is that scenario gonna do to the market? We're gonna have a uptick in new listings We're gonna have a uptick in transactions because of all the stuff happening But active listings are gonna go down are gonna go from bad to worse when this happens And then the new construction right now. I'm sure you track that as well I don't pay attention to new home construction. Has that dropped or is it still it's still the same? They they it seems like so there was just a report. They just did a report where there were less home starts then we've seen since 2020 But permits are up, you know over a year ago, but still, you know down I Think I think I'm kind of conflicted with that data because what I feel like is two things one Yes in mortgage rates being high and the home builders are probably sitting here thinking let's not get too crazy here Right home that the the percentage of new homes being bought is like in the third of third of the home Which is higher than it is probably ever been right and what they're doing the big home builders They're buying down the rate. So I just bought five DR Horton homes that you really about I bought five I closed on three. Yeah, I bought three. It's closed on three. I've got two more than I'm closing in the next couple weeks They buy down your interest rate. Yeah, so I got a 5.9 on an investment for what period of time? 30 year they bought it down for 30 years all the way. Wow. So so I've got I've got 5.9 on on up on up 30 year fix or it's on Gulf Shores Oh, no kidding for an investment property where You know like I'm buying these for like three to 350 They're four bedroom two or on a lake Three are like right across from the street from this new amazing new school. They're fixing a bill for Gulf Shores public school and um My payments are like 1600 and I'm renting them out for 24 2500 a month. I'm like give me as many as I can buy What kind of financing you get on those just curious I did 20% Fannie Mae or yeah, oh so the Fannie Mae so you have a limit of like 11 or 12 I think I can only do 10 10. Okay, I can only do 10. Yeah, that's been so long since I think I still see I buy cat I buy a lot of stuff cash and uh So I've still got like one or two Loans of like like conventional loans that I can get you can go to banks though. I mean, yeah There's so many different things you can do on top of that But you get the best rates and stuff whenever you you know convention Well, I told you we could debate single versus multi, but you know, they'll sound like good deals You know, I I I'm kind of down the thing for me the thing for me on that debate is Is this I don't really know where multifamily is right this second. Yeah So when I when I uh, decided I wanted to kind of start to think about Syndication how to syndicate learn that game since I have such a big following I was like, okay. I could raise some money for some deals camp brother. Yeah. Yeah, I should have been there So, you know, I could raise some money easily Um, right and so this was I don't this was two years ago or so I really started thinking about it that I really started researching and trying to understand the game And I didn't want to just jump in. I wanted to really understand everything And then interest rates started to come up, you know last march And then I said, okay, like we need I need to be even more patient So I've just been kind of riding out this little opportunities coming, bro Yeah, I've just been kind of riding out this little opera this little this little wave Knowing that there's a lot of a lot of these multifamily loans coming due over the next, you know, year to Trillion in commercial debt coming due by the end of next year. Yeah that 1.6 trillion I mean, that's a staggering amount. Yeah. Yeah, and and a good half a trillion is multifamily, right? And so, you know, and those those people those people that have loans coming do have two options They can either sell or they can refinance sales are down 80 percent now year over year So they're not selling very well and refinancing is a nightmare because they have to buy the loans down to have a to even Have a lender sniff at them because the debt service coverage ratio is not there And then and then forget about rate caps rate caps are insane Yeah, you know, uh, I I tell a story about a 100 million dollar rate cap in 2020 was 23,000 three year 3% rate cap now. It's 2.3 million for one year I mean, so these you know, they're falling like flies. So there's there's opportunities going to be distressed assets I've just started a distressed asset fund Um, you know, if you're interested in it text the word uh partner to 72345 to talk to our team But but I start an opportunity fund and what's cool about it is the money's going into a Interest-varying account it's going to be like 4 interest and we spread it out It spreads out over multiple banks. So it stays under the 250,000 fdic limits So the money's safe if the bank fails Um, so it's so you know there's a return on the money, but but we're I'm starting to stockpile cash. I mean, I don't know a lot of cash personally, but I'm you know I'm I want to take advantage of what I believe is coming. Yeah. Yeah, it's good that you waited too I think I'm just being patient. So these new these new construction homes is almost like I got bored kind of waiting Now that's all these opportunities. I'm like, well, I'll just put some money here. You can't lose anything Yeah, I mean, let me let me put some money here. Um, but Um, yeah, I'm I mean as multifamily deals come across my desk They do constantly by the way, and I have underwriters and we're yeah, we're looking at stuff every day So we you know, I've got a I've got a group and you know, we work together and Nice, we're looking at deals all the time. So, you know, um, we're just being super patient And we're just waiting on like those really amazing deals to come through Because you know, what's the point and just you know jumping in the first deal that I do where I take someone's money to do a deal I want it to be you want to know a home run home run and you want to be completely up to speed Yeah, these deal a lot of these deals we see right now are just kind of weird, you know A lot of them don't make sense. Yeah, they're just they're strange You know, it's just like how how in the world can you even? But anyway, um Yeah, so long story short to finish my story up, um I uh, I I got laid off from the oil rig When obama came in in 08 Cut off a lot of the you know money to the gas companies to drill stuff like that Uh, you know and the market was crashing. So, you know gas prices were coming down and you know Gas prices went through the roof as the market Escalated and all these gas companies were drilling, you know, like hey, let's take advantage of this rush And then everything started to come down. They drilled less. They were shutting rigs down laying people off So I eventually got laid off and um I was the last guy out of 52. There were 52 guys in my position Out there on different rigs and uh, I was the last one of the 52 that they let go They held on to me as long as they could because I was just out there like a squirrel and back then You know, I was like in the best shape of my life. I mean, I was just slinging sledgehammers and then, um They got it actually got to where the drillers which is kind of like the the You know, he's kind of like the the team leader if you will of the of the crew Right that's out there got to where it was only drillers drillers were actually taking my position They were just getting down to where just drillers on rigs. Anyway, I got laid off And luckily I went and talked to this mentor that had sold all those properties in 06 He told me kind of what he was doing. It was just a change. When was this? In 08. Oh wait, got you. January, february-ish of 08 Interesting or maybe even been April or March something when I when things were starting to come unglued when I actually got laid off and and luckily enough I had I had already been dabbling back in the real estate and I remember and I had two closings lined up. It was two buyers and the The week before the clothes they closed on the same day And that's kind of crazy too. And this is the first time I actually realized this My first closing ever was my grandmother's condo And I closed on another condo that I had listed and I closed on my grandmother's condo and that Condo on the same day my first deal and then when I came back I actually closed on these two deals on the same day So that I never even thought about that when I came back on the business when I started and when I came back I closed on two deals on the same day to get get going But the week before that I had a bar of 500 bucks from my dad. He was saying you had to Bar some money from somebody or something. My mom brought me groceries. Yeah, your mom brought you groceries I had to bar 500 bucks from my dad the week before just to kind of make it through with gas and food and stuff like that But anyway, um 2008's when I got back in And it was it was the easiest thing ever What were you doing short sales and stuff or what were you doing? I was representing buyers on foreclosures. Gotcha. So I was just putting it out there. Hey, look at the beach Isn't that beautiful and guess what it's 50% the price it used to be right to have a place here 50% off You know and so people are coming out the woodworks to buy these things. I mean, there was 50% off. Wow Um, so it was financing was challenging back then. Was that a hurdle for you or were these are all these are all wealthy people Right, I don't know. They someone might have been paying cash But financing wasn't a problem for these people, you know, got you but this was Uh, so easy man. It was it was incredible. So I made like a hundred grand that year You know, I was making like 45 on the rig and I doubled it Sending an office. Oh, wait. No one I this is oh, yeah 2008 I made like a hundred G's and and that was my comeback year and I was like You know, I was out here risking my life on a rig. I watched people get hurt bad. Did you to To send an office like we're our now Making it making twice as much money, you know, for me I have a different perspective, you know Because I've been through the roofing and the oil rig and serving tables and all this stuff Well, uh, then it was just off to the races man. And my thought was Let me go represent buyers on these foreclosures in three years when the foreclosures go away prices will go up They'll sell that and upgrade to another. There's two more deals They'll refer five people to me who will also upgrade in three years and refer more people to me and so on and so forth So I kind of understood the game the second time around the first time around. I was just Closing that deal happened. Yes, what happened? No, couldn't the first time around I just was doing a deal with someone and then I never talked to him again. They didn't want to talk They made 200 grand. So you learned how to build the business. I learned how to build the business I it was it was a false The first time around You know, I was kind of like in this dream world where you didn't have to build relationships You can make a million bucks and well, that's how you grow man. You learn as you grow. Yeah Yeah, yeah, so then I built it the right way these lifelong relationships with with clients and By 2014 I was selling 100 properties a year. I was the number one remix agent in Alabama I was with remix for 10 years And then I was the number one agent for a long time It was number one agent in my whole market for eight years in a row I did a hundred deals a year for eight years in a row just me and an assistant I was the buyer agent. I was the listing agent, you know, I didn't have a team or anything And then in 2017 the first year I made a mill That's when I wrote the two books. I was like, wow, this is a great story Let me just get all this on paper And uh, get this out, you know, so people did your life story in the books Kind of not really it was more like the business story not the life story And um, the first one was kind of like the basics more of like the storyline the second one You were teaching what you learned. Yeah, the first one was the basics kind of what like my story more So the second one was what I learned through the crash like the fundamentals Of what I learned actually from the crash that got me to where I could actually build the business correctly To get to the hundred deals. So I did the two books They took off and then I started coaching and writing and creating content and everything else For realtors. Yeah for realtors. And then I just through that I became the world's first completely free coach And my services are still free the the mission is to reduce the failure rate in the real estate industry One agent at a time which we've done massively. I mean yesterday in Sarasota I was like how many people are here are already following me, which I'd only expected a couple because Of the type of group it is, you know, it's it's the board. It's not a rick Some of these events I go to a ricky events where I show up and there's 400 agents They all follow me but follow me for a long time and it's it's a different vibe These of this event I didn't figure there would be a whole lot about half the room was and half the room wasn't So it was a mixed crowd And in the middle of my speech You know I said this is my mission and everything how many of you here who follow me Feel like you wouldn't even be in the business anymore if it wasn't for my content my coaching stuff like that And there were six people that stood up And I was like wow, you know feels good. Yeah, so we're we're I've massively Helped people stay in the business and understand You know that things I learned through the crash are just that closings happen every day regardless Um business is unlimited and you got to kind of Put relationships over transactions. You know, I don't when I call a prospect. I'm not Calling to try to sell that house or do that deal I'm calling to use that property as an excuse to see if I can connect with this person and see what it is They want to do and if I can help them do it Well, this by the way guys, I know you're like what does this have to do with multifamily? Well, these these strategies Are the same strategies you'd use to connect with a seller Same strategies you'd use to connect with a potential investor for your deals. So, um, you know, this is this is good content for You know what we do And and I know you're using your money to to to you know, invest in other real estate asset classes You said you're in some industrial uh warehouse stuff. You're building you bought some land and maybe build Number of multifamily. Yeah, I'm really excited about that honestly. So there's I've been looking for property I've put about four different pieces under contract would do diligence to see if I could build apartments and how many I could do and stuff And I've struck out on On all of them until now. I've got this three acres. It's actually like two miles from my house And it's on this beautiful corner And you know, this is right really down the road from where they're building that new school and everything But uh, and it's like 10 minutes from the beach and it's got the right zoning or you have to reason It's it's you put 38 48 is what we're shooting for it's actually zoned for 60, but we're regulated by how many parking spots we can fit on the property Right. Um, the city was like, I think we think you can get about 30 there But you know an engineer really kind of lays it out and tells you but the engineer drew it out And uh, it looks like two buildings 24 units per building with a pavilion in the middle and a dog Walking area and then all the parking out front Um, but man, I'm excited about it because uh, cool You know, it's right down the road from my house. It'll be a new building that I'll own And uh, how far from the beach it would it's like 10 minutes 10 minutes from the beach. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah So that's what's cool. It's in the Gulf Shores school district close to the beaches But it's still kind of off the beach a little, you know, so it's a little bit protective from the storms Any building or is this be new food? I've built houses houses. Yeah. Yeah. I've done some some some I've done some houses, but I've never built uh multi-family. So you're gonna hire a builder or you're gonna hire one? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll bring somebody in to uh, so these will be like two-story buildings then three three story. Okay, interesting Yeah, well, I it's something I'm very interested in doing here in florida as well and I just hired somebody to join my my CRE E capital team cre capitals CRE equity capitals the name of the my acquisitions company and I just hired this really rock star kid that's joined the team to really work florida hard You know and and the way I look at florida right now is if we can find a deal that we can Break even on or make a little bit of money on with the insurance the way it is at some point It's going to settle down and you think I think it will. Yeah, I don't think I like that That's kind of how I think about really any investment right now on these these high interest rate You know, like just take single family for you know, or multi-family or whatever You know, if you if you buy it in this high interest rate environment and it's cash flowing, right? So like for example um I've got one that that's uh, uh, it's a duplex and it's at like seven and a half percent on an investment um, but it cash flows 600 a month or so when you think oh, okay 600 a month, you know, why are you doing that? We're not getting rich Well, the thing is is that Over if it's cash flowing in this market, okay over time rent is going to go up It may settle out. It may go down a little But it'll settle out and it always goes up. It'll it'll settle out and it'll increase, you know, two three percent whatever It's going to increase So that's going to increase your cash flow But then your monthly payments are going to go down as you refinance in four years At one and a half percent lower or whatever you do, right? And so your cash flow from this point is going to do enough of an increase and your your expenses are Is going to decrease and that gap between your monthly payment and your your your rent Is just going to get bigger and bigger and bigger over time. So it's Deals are a little harder to find now because of interest rates, but there are out there No, they're there if you hunt and if you find something that cash flows today, right? Wow It's all about cash flow guys. Don't buy anything that doesn't cash flow. Oh, absolutely It's the number one. That's the that's why there was a commercial deal that I wanted and It was a five or six cap and it was like 1.2 mil. It's a commercial duplex Really nice brand new buildings got smoothie king and a coffee shop and I loved it um But I was gonna have to put about a half a million down just to break even every month on it Something and I get a zero percent cash on cash return for a half a million bucks. I'm like, I'm not doing that deal That's making sense. Yeah, I I My my bare minimum on cash on cash used to be 10. Yeah, I've dropped it some I'm down to about eight now But uh, yeah, you know I anything anything over eight on a cash on cash to me is beautiful Right, right Right. And by the way, if you don't know what cash on cash return means It's the amount of money you make every year on the amount of money out of pocket So if you put a hundred grand in a deal and you get 10 grand a year That's a 10 percent cash on cash return and that's one metric The other metric is called an internal rate of return And that's the total return you get like over a five-year period or whatever period you decide to Proform it on and and that'll include Um principal reduction on your debt and include the cash flow and it'll include, of course You know what you sell it for the the appreciation you sell it for but that's the internal rate of return the IRR but uh, so So where do you think we're headed economically? I mean, do you do you think it's going to be a shit show or do you think it's it's going to be bad or You know, I don't know man. They keep they keep putting a band-aid on it. Yeah, you know I mean, I I feel like you're kind of bullish. I just feel that when I see your posts and stuff You're kind of bullish on the housing market. Okay, right bearish. I I think the I think the the proverbial shit's about to hit the Fan yeah, we'll see. Yeah, we'll see and the the cool thing is is what I learned is I mean like it just doesn't matter to me Yeah, you can make money in any so in any I mean part of the cycle if you know investors buy no matter what, right? Um The good ones and if prices go down I was telling the the agents yesterday and Sarasota, uh, you know I mean, can you imagine how easy it's going to be to sell real estate if prices go down? Yeah 20 30 40 percent Especially in florida. I mean, it's going to be keep people people away from florida It's going to be ridiculously easy to sell real and and and if we do see a shit show That means mortgage rates are going to come down Yeah, I mean they're gonna they're they're gonna have to cut rates if we see something No, so so now you're gonna have cheaper prices with cheaper mortgage rates. I mean, it's just gonna be a gosh It could be opportunity for your demographic for so so if you're an agent listening obviously you need to follow ricky He's uh, he uh, he has an incredible, um a ton of free stuff that he does and uh And I do trainings every week, you know prospecting go to his instagram by the way that's that's where he's he's huge You got a huge fall like 300,000 or something. It's like yeah, I just I hit two four two hundred forty five thousand like two days ago It's like damn. I'm still growing. I'm still at a hundred and six. I'm pathetic, but but yeah, 240. That's awesome Yeah, yeah, yeah, and um, I'm about to hit a hundred thousand on youtube. Oh, no kidding And um, good for you and may I was telling you like the freak's real like I really didn't have much We were talking before we started recording about haters and uh, you know, we talk, you know Because we get haters and and you know, you're a slum lord or you just taking people's money Nobody should own more than one house. I'm like, oh for god's sake. They really hate me because I'm out here Saying prices are going to keep going up. You better buy now, right on houses You know, so they really hate that's the hate you get. Oh, they really hate me because they're like I can't I can't afford, you know, like I can't even buy milk, you know And you're talking about buying a house, but we you know, we talked about it Sometimes I get sucked into it and I'll try to kick somebody in the butt if they if they hate on me And when and when they hate it on tiffy is when I really got upset, but now I just block them and delete them It's like good lord, you know, it's just uh, it's it's and you know the thing about haters is they never have more than you do You know, they just they're just entitled and or feel terrible. Yeah, most people that talk Oh, normally talk about people that's way ahead of them in life. You know, yeah So yeah, and you know tiffy would tell me just ignore them and sometimes I'd get sucked in and Hate on them back for a minute and then delete and block them. But usually I just I try to I try to focus all my my Responding time on the positive comments trying to show them love That makes a whole lot more sense. Yeah, but like you see those negative ones. You're like, man Yeah, you know cardone says he loves it. He said they've made him wealthy Because he gets all that hate. He probably has the most of anyone I've ever seen right right You know, and I think he just ignores it even the people that like him. I think hey Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just yeah. No, it's it's uh, have you have you had him on twice? Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's a funny guy and you know, I I don't You know, I think he does he does um, he doesn't do value add. He buys really high performing very expensive assets and banks on Rent growth and I saw one of his proformas and he had 10% a year for five years Rent growth. I'm like, yeah, I don't think so and so well, that's hard to predict that I mean that's you want to be more conservative on your projections. Come on, you know, but but You know, uh We'll see. I mean, he's smarter than I am. He's got a jet and a helicopter. So but uh, yeah I I I get a kick out of him and I like I said, I went to his growth con I paid 20 grand to sit in the front row just because I I like to be in the front row and and it was a lot of fun And you know, it was fun to practically high five Brady Tom Brady when he walked by and so on and so forth, but um But anyway, uh, you know, he's a he's a he's a funny guy I really I enjoy talking to him. I pissed him off the last time We we interviewed though because we got a call from a vet because I took questions from from listeners And the vets like should I use my va to buy a fourplex? And I'm like hell. Yeah, because it's no money down He's like, no buy a 16 unit because you know, he's 10x everything I'm like, can you buy a 16 unit with a valo? No. No, I mean like no, no, but he that was just him You know, he's like go bigger go bigger go home. But but I'm like grant dude It's no money down if that gets him started do it Pissed him off a little I could see it on a space But I mean, you can't even buy a 16 you can only buy no no no But but in his head, it's like, you know, just don't even bother with the four unit Anyways, we gotta start somewhere. Thank you. I mean, that's the thing I see it in my students all the time. It's like the law of the first deal. It's the scariest It takes the longest. It's the most stressful and they get one next thing. Oh, they have three. I'm like, what the hell just happened? Yeah, and and so, you know, it's kind of like like in today's world, you know, the you know This syndication thing, you know has become a trending Topic and so you got all these really Inexperienced people and they're a lot of them in trouble and they've done these deals at two caps And stuff and now interest rates and you know, it's not not a pretty site and Even like I said, even very Sophisticated world-class operators that I was super impressed with like the one I met at the growth con Really impressive guy and and like I said, it was just in real page had to give one back to foreclosure and and you know, sad to see because you know, but A lot of and I've got a couple of bridge loans right now with my ex-partner And we're having we're having weekly meetings because he's gonna have to suck it up and and deal with it But uh, you know, it's it's uh, it's it's it's very painful on these assets, especially C assets that are struggling you know, and and I'll tell you I I won't buy a C asset right now or C minus for sure Maybe maybe a C C plus I would consider but because that demographic's getting killed I mean I went to the grocery store. I'm like, are you freaking kid because I I'm recently Kind of single I we shifted our relationship to a friendship. And so I'm buying my own groceries and I'm like, holy crap I had no idea how expensive stuff is now and gas Insane You know, I don't know how people afford it. You know people that just pay check to pay check Yeah, you know, I'm thinking that the I'm not thinking I'm certain that the d for sure and the c-minus stuff Those those people are in trouble. I mean, yeah And I I I saw an article about six eight months ago that 20 million families are behind in their utility bills You know and and uh, and a lot of people are Paying everyday expenses with credit cards. What's wrong with that picture, right? Yeah, so I don't know Well, I think it's the band-aid I was talking about they keep putting on the economy Right, you know, this is this is the result of that it's just kicking the can down the road How long can you kick the can down the road? You know, right? I think we're kind of in a we've been in an artificial bull market Well, that's that's quite a while. I'm worried about a major reckoning. Yeah because of that We'll see, you know, they may go to digital currency May they do who knows what they'll do to try to manipulate things if it gets really ugly, but But yeah, it's it's crazy times we're in right now Between that and the politics and everything else and I think I think for people listening You know that might hear that and be like, oh god, this is scary Yeah, it's scary to think about and stuff like that If you've never been through a massive shift or a mash of the like economic You know Down-turn and everything it could be scary. Sure. No, it's gonna be scary. But the opportunity that's what I'm saying Yeah, if it's your first go around then just sit back and enjoy the show Right and and kind of just keep your head above water and kind of learn From from what happens if you've or if you were if you went through 08 Right, then you're you're ready to roll. Oh, yeah, I'm ready. I got crushed by that wave. I'm surfing this way, baby Yeah, let me tell you, you know, and and I you know, I told people in my boot camp I'm like if there were ever a time to get up to speed it's right freaking now because it's coming You know, they're coming the deals are coming and there's a lot of money sitting the sidelines waiting But you know the the the sweet spot probably for newbies is going to be under 50 units that the Money in the sidelines probably has no interest in so but there's there's a lot of deals in that price And the housing market, you know back in the 40s. There was about a five-year double digit Appreciation run And everybody said it's going to crash Prices are up too high on affordability the whole nine yards, right? This is after the baby boomers bought all those houses back after world war two. Yeah, exactly exactly There's a four year four or five year double digit Five years of double digit 10 or more percent increase national home prices And guess what home prices didn't go down Any time after that we fast forward to the late 70s when mortgage rates went up to 19% You know, we had there was there were six Uh big years four were double digit, right two were almost double digit six It was a run of six years That next year after that last double digit year seven percent then five then four then ten again then eight I mean Even if you bought at the peak there were dips though, but Every year that that's what i'm telling you every single year See this is what people don't realize until until these headlines start happening and People start really looking at it with a magnifying glass is that every year The prices go down sure if you look at national home prices look at a chart, right? Look in your market. Look anywhere local national whatever you see it goes prices go up and down every single year They trend up. Let me give you an example of kind of a cool example of uh, you know I had 500 houses in denver at one time that are into the long term Boy, I wish I had those now man. They'd be free and clear. They'd be worth a lot I would be bottom line netting a million a month right now But anyway, would it could have should have but but but there was a house on 30th and federal in denver That I bought for 56,000 threw a garage up and sold it for 76,000. Okay, I flipped it then Then the market crashed. Okay. I bought that same house back for 18,000. Okay, same house 76 to 18 I kept it for a few years and I sold it for 160. Okay. The area gentrified. It's worth a million now Right. I mean that's this that's that's that's just one house that I was aware of There are a few of them that I bought back like that. I sold one for 56 bought it back for 12 But uh, but they still continually trend up. I mean that that that's those are anomalies but my point is is that that Even if you you bought something at the peak of one of the even in 08 back in the 2004 and 5 If you bought at the peak of 05 from prices peaked out beginning of 05, you're still up right now. Yeah Did it go down? That was that was the that was the worst real estate crash ever prices are down 50% But you're still up right now if you'd have kept whatever you had long term Um, yeah, no agreed. I agree completely now this this housing crash. This is a crash We're going to have about the same amount of transactions this year as we had in 08 Really? Yeah, we're on 4.3 million is what we're looking at existing home sales and we had 4.12 million in 08 Right, it's identical getting interesting, right? It's pretty much the same. This is the crash I'll say crash on social And people like what crash and they want they're talking smack because they're they're thinking prices. I'm not talking about prices transactions um, but this crash because that's what this is Is not it's it's more comparable to the late 70s Not 08 08 was a mortgage meltdown sub prime lending You know, this is solid lending 45 percent of houses are own free and clear Really? Okay. Yeah, and you know 30 of all sales now are cash Interesting, right, um, which is uh, I didn't know. Yeah, I mean, well, we'll think about it I mean would you want to pay 8% or you pay cash, right? Let's pay cash um We're just in a very super healthy market. So back in the 70s You know inflation went up, you know when inflation went up to 9% last year They said it's the highest in 40 years. When was that? You know 70s, right? That that everything because compared the delinquencies right now for for homes is the lowest it's been 79 Which is exactly when all this is happening the Back then people didn't want to You know upgrade to something else or whatever because They didn't want to double their mortgage rates same as now. Yeah, it's all just eerily similar To back then. Yeah, we had a crash back then and and you know and about all those houses in denver And I mean I was buying houses in denver from oh, but this is crazy back then FHA loans were going south and an investor could buy FHA foreclosure for $500 down. Wow, and they finance it And and and va was doing 5% down and I was a broker and I got a 6 commission So I'm like hey buy this freaking house. I'll throw the commission in and I bought tons of houses that way too With partners 50 50 Yeah, it was incredible back then. I mean, of course, you know, who Be fun if that ever happened again, but not likely but But yeah, well, my point with this is is back then people said oh It's gonna crash and stuff like that as far as prices go. Yeah, but they never did Right. They they slowed down appreciation Right, but they still were clicking along at a good 4 or 5% a year and never had a negative year until the early 90s. There was a slight little dip then But when I'm comparing now's housing market to the 70s, you know You know My question is even if we do see this, you know Armageddon of the of the economy, right? Um, what is that going to do to home prices? Will it actually affect home prices because well temporarily it will well back in long term back Well every year they temporarily get affected, right? Okay. Um back Back then I mean, I had I had some I had a good one Threw me off there for a second. It's all right. But uh, oh man Well, here's the thing though. Yes, they they go back every year But if we have an armageddon, they're gonna go way down like they didn't know eight and nine But they'll come back after a few years. Well, you got well, okay But here's the difference back then there were two to three million listings at any given time. Okay You got a half a million right now. No, shit. Half a million. Wow In the 80s. Wow in the 80s Okay, when there were way less population and way less houses that even existed. Okay There were two to two to three million active listings at any given time. No good It never got below two million and right now you're in the eight in the 80s. No kidding. Okay And right now we're at between five and six hundred thousand in the whole country for sale. Okay So so with interest rates going up to seven and a half percent We're we're at the place where only people that have to buy and sell are doing deals You're not buying you're not doing a deal because you want to even the people that want to aren't doing it It's only if you have to okay and investors, right, right? So if the market dips If if if Armageddon the economic Armageddon happens Then our people that have to buy and sell not going to know they're still going to because they have to And so with with the with the lack of inventory And the inventory is going to go from bad to worst and you might think well, then we're going to see foreclosures and then we're going to see Uh, you know, I think so if if the market really gets ugly. I mean just economically in general Well in 08 we had four million listings, you know, it was two to three million in in the 80s But then in 08 when the crash happened, you know, we had four million So there's it would have to be some Really wild situation to get us from a half a million to four million Um to create this scenario, right? I think I did hear though Ricky is um, you know, I had a litigation support company And and so we helped people in foreclosure. I built law firms in five states We'd stopped the foreclosure with litigation and then we'd help them modify their loans Help thousands of families save their homes But I sold that business a few years ago And I guess there's a pretty big backlog of foreclosures right now And so, you know, who knows, you know, how big that is and and You know chances are those houses will be able to be sold because they still have equity in them because the prices have Gone up so much But there's a bunch of foreclosures still coming down the pipe because that more that moratorium And it takes mortgage companies a long time To get their paperwork in order and get these more these foreclosures. We need them Right because we got we got we got more 33 year olds and we've ever than we've seen in two decades We've got home owners who are dying to upgrade because they need extra bedroom. I mean One of a guy that that a banker he bought something in 2020 their dream home But since then they had they had twins they already had two kids But they had they had twins since then unexpected And now they're a bigger house. They need one more room and they're like we want to really bad I mean, there's so many stories like this, right? Now how many how many more millionaires do you think there are? Now than there was in 08 Right and how many of those Learned from 08 and are setting themselves up to take advantage of the next any downturn Right, there's so many more people that are prepared for if an armageddon happens to take advantage of of whatever happens in the housing market There's nowhere near the inventory That we were back then or any war. I mean if we had an influx of inventory, there's that if if the inventory did affect prices People will come out the woodworks. Yeah, you know, I think you could be right Yeah, I think you could be right. So I think even if we see armageddon I don't see it affecting home prices too much that we could see a little ebb and flow like last year We saw a slight correction During the same time of year covered not covered when interest rates went up Oh, got you we during the normal time of year in the fall when prices go down anyway Okay, it went down a little more than normal Okay, a little more than normal, but it bounced right back and went back to all-time highs I mean, we're down to the bottom of the barrel the way I see it For demand based on the inventory. I think you're absolutely right Well, listen back in 08. There were 4 million transactions and now we're 4 million That was how much worse do you think it can get 08? You think it gets worse than 08 as far as demand The number of people that are buying homes. I doubt it. Yeah, there's no way When it gets down to the people that need to There's there's nowhere else to go. You can't go any lower. Could it go down to 3.9 million? Maybe 3.8 maybe But we're down somewhere close to where We're going to have that many transactions, right? So when you're down as low as demand can go And you have no inventory even if inventory, you know spikes up a little bit worse, you know I don't think the inventory is going to spike because I'll tell you I I know there's some statistics out there and I I can't I don't want to speak out of turn But I think we're like In the next couple of years We're 2 million shorted housing units in general not just not just housing and why is that places to live And why is that where are the 2 million people coming from? I think it's population. I don't know 33 year olds Oh, you think it's 34 year olds 35 year olds 36 year olds, right? It's family formations It's people that are moving out of their mom's house or they're they've got a roommate and they're tired of living with somebody, right? Or maybe they're renting And they are tired of rent going up every year and they want a fixed payment And they want to build equity, right? That's that's I'm sure that's that's that's a huge demographic as well So, you know, I enjoy talking to agents and brokers as well and my whole push with them is You know, if you're just going to sell other people's property, you're only as good as your last sale Okay And but if you want to build cash flow, you invest in real estate. You don't just sell real estate I know you're doing that. You're obviously I mean you you bought a bunch of real estate and you're you're developing and you're buying Do you agree with that framework where you know, you make the money selling the real estate? But then you use that money to go buy assets the cash flow. Yes Yeah, so most agents don't own real estate, right? Which is crazy and they're in the perfect position to find the best Yeah, well, they're so focused on, you know, most of them come from a job or and they're just trying to be successful They're just trying to make money And and it's kind of a catch 22 because most agents horizon is I want to be the best in the in the area Or I'm gonna make a million bucks a year or something. I don't really think past that You know, that's kind of all they're focused on Yeah, um But they really kind of need to think past that and and what am I going to do to get out of this? Because this is a rat race. It's a job. It's a pretty good job, right? It is but That could also be a distraction to you becoming the best in the market Which you need to be or make it a million bucks a year because you need to make that so that you can invest in real estate So it's it's a very fine line really I was I was in the same boat where I was just trying to make a million bucks a year as an agent I mean I bought a few properties just because I thought let me buy a few properties, but I wasn't like all in I wasn't thinking. Oh, where's my next real estate deal? Where am I going to buy my next thing? I was focused on how do I get another listing? Yeah, well, I will tell you I think I think you know I tell people grind for a few years like most people won't you really live the rest of your life Like most people can't right well Well, most agents say I love sales. I'm gonna do sales forever I said it too until the day that you don't when when your clients calling you and you're cringing right seek on the color I'd be oh, there's this million dollar House and when I'm gonna look at and when you don't want to go see a million dollar house to list You know, that's when you know, right that you should have put something in place Right, so I watched two agents literally die Making calls. No kidding. Yeah, they they they died from old age and they were legends. Just wow incredible people and They You know, they knew they were dying Right, they got the call. We got the call and the next day there They are in the office making calls and I'm like, what's going on? Well, they're in there calling for sale by owners and expires Trying to make as much as they can to leave their spouse as much as they can before they pass away They make calls till three days before they die where they can't get out of bed And and pass away making calls calling for sale by owners and expires Good and that and that was such an eye-opening experience for me You know, I that's when I was like, I'm not gonna live like this and that's when I started The coaching stuff, right? I was like, I gotta have another let me try to build this other business Um, sure and then you know Here recently, you know, I I flipped about a hundred houses with two other partners And I'm like, jeez if we had kept the best 30 of those. Oh my gosh, we'd have been So now when we flip I'm doing one right now that we're that we bought together And you know, we go in thirds and we fix it up and flip them. Well, I'm I'm buying the other two guys out Actually, one of the other guys you're gonna keep it. Yeah. Yeah, because it fits my buy box You know for what for what I'm for what I'm buying and stuff, but to your point, right? Every agent needs to needs to start building an annuity you got to be thinking I need to buy passive income because You you you just have a job a really high paying job But it it's still a job that you have to go to every day And you literally have the opportunity right there in the palm of your hand to build Passive income where later on you can still do sales, but not because you have to and then eventually You won't want to and you'll be in a position where you can just walk away Well, even those of you listening that don't do real estate that have a job You know and maybe you have a high income job. You have a golden handcuffs You've got a great big high paying w2 job. You need to be investing in real estate either passively You know text the word partner to seven two three four five You want to invest passively with me or actively, you know Get your butt to one of my boot camps and learn how to do this actively because You know, otherwise every year you're just going to go back to work January 1st You don't have to do this. Yeah. Yeah, I do this like this podcast I do this because I love it. I My first episodes, you know, I just want to tell people about what happened to me in 2008 and 9 and you know How I I really I'm proponent for multifamily versus single family just because of the way what happened to me and What what did happen? What's your debate? I had 800 houses along the Gulf Coast of Florida here from Newport Richie all the way down to Benita Springs But I was spread out over two hours in each direction. So logistically. It wasn't the greatest move But I also had some apartment complexes and I was only at a 30% loan to value of my whole portfolio And I still crashed and burned and here's why you know If I had to send a maintenance guy to one of my apartment complexes We stockpile all the parts. So they're in and out in an hour If I had to send to a house that's an hour and a half away every house is different They got us to go see what's wrong Go find a home deep or a lows where we have an account and it's called day And these were c-class houses older a tougher demographic tons of maintenance So I never really cash flowed. Yeah, okay even a 30% loan to value. I never cash flowed, you know And of course, Florida has no state income tax higher property taxes I had properties in wind and flood zones higher insurance all which impacts cash flow And you know, and then uh, when it all imploded Oh, and the last thing was I didn't pay attention to tenant demographics back then I had a lot of contractors plumbers electricians drywallers painters roofers that had good credit paid a deposit I've assumed everything was great. Well, they had no work So so in 08 and 9 they cracked they couldn't pay the rent and so it just crashed and burned Now you weren't wanting some crazy my portfolio went upside down. It actually dropped 70 70 a little over 70% That's how much it crashed here But but that's why I crashed and burned but my multifamily through all that pulled back about 11% could have easily survived Like value. No, no, no rent a gross income And could have easily survived if I hadn't cross collateralized thinking that was brilliant with packages houses, right? So I lost it all But you know, I started my podcast what seven eight years ago just to say hey if you're gonna buy and hold for god's sakes You know, look at multifamily. Don't yeah, don't just do single family and You know, I used to say my early episodes of my podcast I'll never sell you anything because I never planned to I just want to add value and now I'm a liar because I sell everything But you know, uh, I wrote they'll wrote this book, you know How to create lifetime cash flow through multifamily properties and I just I still give it away. I give away tens of thousands of copies of it um And You know, and then now I now I do coaching and courses, but I yeah, I mean, I freaking love it And I don't you know, it's not about the money for me. I literally love it I'm the lowest price by far out of anybody that does this and Half price in some in most cases for my coaching and my bootcamp was 200 for three days without a big sales pitch Yeah, you know brainer, right if you go to my social media and you see what people said about it You know, they're leaving about they're like they couldn't believe they got all that value Yeah, but you know like you you do your stuff for free I I do my stuff for practically free and and And you know power. I did I did a boot camp. I did a workshop. I charged 700 bucks For last year. Uh, I had a hundred people. Um And people came in from to gulf shores from all over You know, I mean I had to charge because the venue was x amount and the you know It's expensive, man But I had a thousand people, you know, so I I broke even on the venue and stuff Yeah, but uh, and we did some vip where they had dinner and they paid more and and so I broke So before we go because we were got limited time, right? You you saw you you made the mistake with the single family back then Now after all that knowing what you know now Do you feel like you could build the single family portfolio back a different way that's more protective Maybe maybe like you're doing if you've got them in a subdivision They're brand new and but I would the big thing that I I wouldn't do it again No, because I I like multifamily. I'd rather do one transaction to get 50 units than by 50 houses One by one. Okay. Just scale is it's easier and every house has its own insurance has its own taxes So from a cash flow standpoint, I like multifamily better a whole lot of reasons I like it better, but but we don't have to debate that. Well, that's why I'm building a 30 Well, that's right. You said you're thinking about shifting to syndication and stuff My whole thing is a multifamily like that's where I'm going. I'm buying these single families for fun Yeah, it's fun. I would do it for fun. Yeah, I mean I'm doing it because I'm bored and I have cash sitting there And I need to do something like I'm just doing it just to get some cash flow until these motherload deals come through Right, you know, and I think they're coming. Yeah. Well, well, listen, brother I appreciate you coming down here. It's great to meet you I mean, I know we both spoke at the wealth con ryan panita's event and and kind of cross paths there and You know, it's kind of a small world we're in You know a lot of a lot of speakers that that bounce around brad lee was there and some people that I really enjoy but But andy elliott is the real rock stars and in their respective spaces and it was a lot of fun But it's a great to finally meet you and and uh, and I appreciate you coming down. Thanks for having me man Enjoyed it. Absolutely. Thank you