 Hi, I'm Heidi Holmstrom, a motion picture preservation specialist in the National Archives motion picture preservation lab. My colleague Audrey Amidon and I will be moderating this panel on the uses of government films. The panel will be formatted a little differently from the others who are seen in this conference in that rather than viewing all of the presentations followed by a long discussion period. We'll split the panel into three segments and we'll have a shorter discussion period with presenters following each segment. While NARA is responsible for the preservation of federal records, not everything created by the federal government is slated for preservation, and some films may have fallen through the cracks. The first two presenters, Sarah Eilers and Aina Archer, will discuss how their institutions, the National Library of Medicine, and the National Museum of African American History and Culture, collect and use moving images that may not be held by NARA. We will hear from Lindsay Zarrewell, an archivist at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, Ingo Zechner of the Ludwig Boltzmann Institute for Digital History, and NARA's own Chris Austin, the supervisor of the Motion Picture Preservation Lab. They will discuss how films created by the United States military after the liberation of Nazi concentration camps allow us to understand atrocities and connect people today to stories of the past. Last but not least, we will cover creative reuse of films made by the US government. Karma Foley will talk about how she finds and uses films at NARA in the creation of television productions for the Smithsonian Channel. And NARA education specialist Stephanie Greenhut will talk about how educators and students can take advantage of NARA's moving image holdings. If you have any questions while watching these presentations, please add them to the Zoom Q&A box. We will address questions after each segment of the panel. Thank you for attending. We look forward to this discussion. Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to my awkward recording. I'm Sarah Eilers. I am an archivist and I manage the historical audiovisuals collection in the history of medicine division, also known as HMD at the National Library of Medicine. And in today's brief presentation, I'll tell you a little bit about our collection where we do and don't overlap with the National Archives, what sorts of material patrons are usually looking for when they come to us, and I will show you a couple of clips. The history of medicine division is a special collection within a larger institution, NLM, which collects and distributes a vast amount of biomedical literature and functions also as a government R&D entity. NLM has its roots in the Library of the Office of the Surgeon General, later renamed the Army Medical Library, and as such, we hold hundreds of military medical films, and this is an area where we overlap with the National Archives, and there are military film holdings, though ours are mostly limited to health and medicine, so it's a much smaller set. One example of titles held in both places is the Combat Fatigue series of films. This is Combat Fatigue Irritability, which stars Gene Kelly, and was one of the first titles featured in NLM's medical movies on the web, now known as Medicine on Screen, a site that showcases important medical films in our collection, along with essays, contextual information, and related resources. I direct this initiative to the best of my ability, and Oliver Geichen is our much valued project consultant. A fun fact is that at the time Dr. Michael Sables essay about the film was published. We also hosted Gene Kelly's daughter, Kerry Kelly Novick, and she gave a talk about her father and his work in the military training, this military training title, which is one of several government films that tried to address the psychological burdens of war and move away from the stigmatization of fear as nothing more than cowardice. Our largest set of government films was either produced or supported by the US Public Health Service, and that includes about 1600 films associated with the National Medical Audiovisual Center, which was located in Atlanta, alongside the CDC for many years, and then moved to Bethesda. The National Medical Audiovisual Center was a large production facility, and it also acted as a lender, it acquired films from other producers, other repositories for distribution, so you could rent them, you're supposed to return them. A lot of them didn't get returned, I've come to find out. The movie making started with the Office of Malaria Control in War Areas, established in 1942, and it's this agency that became the CDC. So I'm going to show you a clip from an early CDC film about proper drainage of marshy areas that harbor mosquitoes in larva. That was a real focus of the CDC for the first few years, was clearing out, dealing with vectors of disease. These wide swamps near Charleston, South Carolina were long a blight on the landscape and a breeding ground for the malaria-carrying mosquito, the Anopheles quadromaculatus. Here, water and vegetation met, and malaria drained the vitality of the people living nearby. Here, the malaria danger signal flashed during hot summer months, and the land was worse than useless. Labor crews following the engineers dug the main ditch from the outlet to the swamp. The initial cut was vertical, sides of the ditch were sloped to a grade determined by the stability of the soil, and the bottom was fine-graded to ensure a smooth flow of water. Circling back to overlap with the National Archives, they do have many film titles produced by federal health or health-oriented agencies, and this makes sense. NARA is the repository for federal records, so material in all formats made by federal agencies would or might come to them. And in fact, when we featured films on air pollution, I think Oliver found this pamphlet. We have this nice pamphlet digitized in our collection, Free Films on Air Pollution. Problem is, we only held a couple of the films, the rest are at the National Archives, so I just included that in the supplementary section. Of that essay on medicine on screen, telling people where they could find them. Our holdings include as many, if not more, films that are not directly associated with government production. They were donated by other entities, and this is just an example. Medical device makers, pharma, associations, whether the Cancer Society, National Tuberculosis Association, that made films or circulated films. And we also have a figure number that were transferred to us by individual scientists, doctors, Telford work, an epidemiologist with the CDC is probably the largest individual contributor. So one thing I found over my years in this position is that patrons are very consistently interested in mental health and child development. Now when there is an infectious disease outbreak like Ebola or swine flu or obviously COVID, we get kind of a run on infectious disease material or lately a run on Anthony Fauci material. But this is a very consistent area of interest for our patrons. This probably goes on a little too long, this clip, but who doesn't love a flailing baby? So I'm going to play it. This is an article published last October by Katie Joyce at the University of London. And she really mined the NLM holdings on mother infant interaction and development for this piece and is also working on a film essay but is having some copyright challenges. And yes, I do hope to tap her for medicine on screen. These are two of the films she focused on pretty deeply. One of which grief apparel and infancy is almost unbearable to watch and I have a lot of questions about that experiment that are not answered in the film. It's worth watching the other is shaping the personality both by Renee Spitz and Catherine Wolf. And I'm sure I'm out of time, but I can't leave without a nod to the title of my talk. The most popular film ever uploaded to NLM digital collections or the NLM YouTube channel. And that is prefrontal lobotomy and the treatment of mental disorders by the notorious Walter Freeman and his associate James Watts. A lot of you may know Walter Freeman didn't pioneer but popularized if you will the transorbital or ice pick lobotomy, which he became so good at and required so few tools that he could load up his van and drive across the country from institution to institution lobotomizing people. Watts actually left their partnership around 1950 because he objected to the rate at which this was going on. This was made with Freeman was at George Washington University which holds his papers and our copy came through a donation from the psychological cinema register of Penn State University. We have about 50 films from that donor which is a real the psychological cinema register is a real treasure trove of those types of films. So I will close now. And thank you films of state attendees. I've enjoyed the conference so far and look forward to the rest of it. Hello, my name is I know archer. I'm a media conservation and digitization specialist at the Museum of African American history and culture. And I'm going to talk a little bit about a film in our collection called a people's playhouse. A people's playhouse made circa 1947 presented by the American Negro theater is a world war two era documentary featuring a very young Ruby B alongside theatrical style of words of the era like Frederick O'Neill and the playwright Abram Hill. Linking its fundraising plea to the war effort. The film reuses newsreel footage from a concurrent propaganda film, the Negro soldier. According to john clackman and archivist at anthology film archives, his late boss Jonas meekest looked at the unidentified film. A little bit of an outlier in a collection that focused on the preservation and exhibition of experimental independent film and said that looks old. With that declaration, he unwittingly initiated a collaboration between anthology and the Smithsonian National Museum of African American history and culture to preserve the short work. The film's narrator connects viewers to the everyday citizens on the screen, factory workers clerks war workers and teachers that may have been encountered on the streets of New York City. For me is delightful to see that the people we recognize on screen are black, and even more extraordinary, these African Americans on the streets of Harlem are professional actors. The Smithsonian National Museum of African American history and cultures. Great migration home movie project is a collaborative initiative between the Earl and Amanda Stafford Center for African American media arts, and the Robert F Smith Center for the digitization and curation of African American history. This initiative invites the public to schedule an appointment with the museum's audio visual conservation team in order to digitize their home movies and audio on obsolete formats and the Robert F Smith, explore your family history center on the second floor of the museum. The supposed scarcity of African American home movies is being challenged by projects like demox great migration home movie project. For years prior to the prior to the pandemic, our onsite lab and the Robert F Smith fun digitization truck designed and operated by the Mox media archivist and the time based media conservation team. We've digitized over 1500 hours of footage, a testament to the numbers of African Americans portraying a quotidian life in home movies created as acts of self representation. The museums videos and audio tapes that we digitize are more than off the cuff family recordings. These are works that display an intentional black gaze that deploys media formats trick photography graphic tools and lighting always keenly aware to those positioned in front of the camera about how they're being looked at and significantly by food. I believe the people's playhouse, which you'll get to see in just a moment is is useful are used. Mostly for me as a metaphor. There's many other uses and hopefully having the film available and having people be able to to see it have access to it study it and and further uncover details about the movie. You know, all those kinds of uses are important. Of course as well. But I think that a people's playhouse is also emblematic of the great migration movie project. Because it to situates the work of African American image making in the hands of African Americans. And it demonstrates that many of the cinematic archives and histories we thought we knew are not as white as we tend to think of them as being the great migration reveals the importance of preserving and supporting African American creative self representation specifically from everyday family and everyday family and community life. And it contains the capacity to counteract negative depictions of blackness. I think like the like a people's playhouse, the great migration program and the Museum of African American history and culture are giving us a fair and equal chance to self portray. And a couple of things when you're watching. Please take note of the space. Where they are theater is which is still in that space it's a Schomburg Center and the, it was New York public libraries. And 35th Street location inside our Aaron Douglas murals, which are WPA murals so I think that's in part why I was thinking the film is a government film when in fact there's nothing that actually says that it's a government film. I don't know why that happened. But also, I think what I thought was particularly striking was the reuse of material from the Negro soldier. That seems to indicate that there must have been some kind of a crossover with the production of this film so hopefully we'll learn more about that. I'm sure we get a chance to see it. Okay, or you get a chance to see it. Okay, so let's see you at the Q&A at the discussion. This is a true story, and it's happening right here. It's your story to listen to it, and you will realize how much you are part of it. You know the characters of the story. You know him. Surely you must have met him in the street. You rode downtown with her. She is in the story too. And she is in it. And so is he. Yes, you know them all. You met them at work, went home with them on buses and street cars. Factory workers, clerks, war workers, teachers. They are just like you. Yet they are giving to a city of drama a drama all their own. They are fighting to see that the Negro is given a fair and equal chance. They are fighting their fight in the American Negro Theater. Four years have passed since they first got together. This is their dressing room, where every night they change from work clothes into the actor's costumes. Many hours a week are spent in training, taking courses in body movement right here in their workshop, attending classes in speech and radio techniques. For four years they have sacrificed their time discussing and reading plays to be produced by the American Negro Theater. Their stage is small. It was built by their own hands. But the actors on it are professionals, tirelessly rehearsing under the guidance of their own skill directors. Their stage designer paints his own sets. Piping of programs is done by Hilda Sims, the heron of the play, who also gives information on the telephone. When the show goes on, be it Natural Man, Stryver's Roll, or Anna Locaster, the director of the American Negro Theater, Abram Hill can be found in the electrician's booth, while the company manager, the eminent actor Frederick O'Neill, volunteers to draw the curtain. They have great skill, but little money. For four years the American Negro Theater has never stopped working for its aim, to give to Negro talent the broader scope it deserves. This is the record. A permanent staff of 35 artists, all volunteer workers have created five productions. In four years, more than 25,000 theater goers have attended more than 175 of their performances. Just as democracy cannot fully mature without participation of all its citizens, no theater can be truly great if it excludes any part of the whole. We are part of the American Theater, and we mean to make ourselves a more vital part. It's the reason we must go on. This is the reason we need your dimes and dollars. This is the playhouse which we are going to build. This is the place where the people's talent will train for the task to interpret the people's struggle. This is the house we are going to build with your help. The American Negro Theater needs your generous contributions to continue this work. Okay, now we ask Ina and Sarah to join us for our discussion section. Okay. I think we're going to start. We had a request from the audience. Sarah, if you could tell us the names of the short films, we would appreciate hearing them. Which set of short films are we talking about? I'm not entirely sure. The films you used in your presentation, sorry. Oh, just the two that were in that were, okay, one was called Hand Ditching for Malaria Control, and one was called Early Observations Phenomenology of Early Oral Behavior, which is a very long one so I can post it somewhere. If you would like to add it to the chat for the attendees to see. Okay, yep, I can do that. Okay, and we have another question for Ina actually coming from our organizer Oliver. He would like to know how you see the difference between representation by African Americans as in your examples versus representations of African Americans as in the mosquito film that Sarah showed in the digging of the ditch. How do you differentiate between these two kinds of representation? It seems the latter is less impactful but probably more widespread than the former. So the former is the. Is the film, your film. Okay, right. I'm sorry, can you give that to me one more time? He's asking just about the difference of representation between the laborers in Sarah's film versus your film which features self representation of, you know, of actors and theater professionals. That's about somewhere and if you can, if you can speak on that just a little bit. Okay, I think that the biggest differences of one of, I think one feels like documentation of process. That's being, I don't know who the photographer is, but it seems that it's a, you know, in service to representing a certain kind of, you know, representing the, there are part of the work that's being done, not being distinguished as workers. And I think that the People's Playhouse is very much about individuating African Americans and talking about them as producers of their own images through the American theater. I also have a sense that the film might have been made by a black producer. That's something that's come up more recently that because of another film we have in the collection called Life in Harlem, a documentary film of the American Negro. He also has a little glimpse of Ozzie Davis, and he had not credited, you know, it's kind of an extra almost in a scene in Harlem, a similar kind of tone, and, and these were made for the colored, colored America on parade. This is something that I, you know, have seen all these. So that I think will be the biggest difference. But I found that the footage very striking of the, of the ditch digging. There is a question here asking, were those ditch diggers prisoners. Do you know Sarah, we, we don't know, we don't know. I suspect if they had actually been prisoners as opposed to laborers recruited for the project that, well, and maybe it wasn't in the frame, but there would have been somebody there with a rifle guarding them. So, I don't think that they were prisoners but it's not, it's not stated one way or the other. Also for Sarah, your comment about the disturbing experiment on grief made one of her questioners who is a NARA employee she wonders about how the library frames content that is unethical by today's standards because at NARA. We've seen some disturbing footage. She mentions children dying of rabies in the 1920s. And it seems like it should definitely have a disclaimer. How, how does the National Library of Medicine deal with films like that. We do have a broad disclaimer on our main digital collections page, which is where people are most likely to see things and then also we're supposed to have it on our YouTube channel I hope we I believe we do. And it says that these films made contain, you know, disturbing or offensive content, traffic and you know racial and ethnic stereotypes or show other kinds of, you know, disturbing images and to let folks know that so that's what we've done so far and that seems to have, you know, seems to prepare people for what they might see. And also I think the people that are very often researchers and such and people who are looking at this material. Sometimes I think they really kind of expect it based on some of the comments that you know that I see, but yes it's important to have that disclaimer because there's so many things ranging from just, you know, offensive to to to yes deeply disturbing or, especially things involving children. Yeah. So we have a question. I'm not will direct toward Ina. Do you are you able to discuss the connection between the American Negro Theater and the Negro unit of the federal theater project. No, but I would love to be able to make that connection. Yeah, so my shortest answer would be I wouldn't be able to do that but I would love that that to explore that direction. What has come up for me specifically with with the American Negro Theater was trying to establish more where what it is, you know, and so that would be very productive to to trace so I would please know any, any prompts I would enjoy. I have a question for you, I am wondering, I feel like this is a very, very rich film and there's so much here that you're talking about about, you know, self representation. It's interesting to me that they they use the Negro soldier which is a film that did have an African American writer Carlton Moss and an actor producer director was was involved in it. But it was made of course for the US government for the purpose of, you know, furthering the aims of this of predominantly white power structure. I'm just wondering, you know, it's interesting to me that they've now recontextualize that piece of film in something that is completely about about self representation. And so to circle back that the very long wind up for me to say, are there examples of how now the films that you have transferred that your institution have transferred through the Great Migration Project. Are there examples now where black creators are reusing that footage that was was black self representation from the beginning. So we're using films that are that come from within the great movie, the Great Migration Home Movie Project. So in other words using other home movies in production. Right. We're, we've had material used in a variety of documentaries, in order to give kind of context to different periods or stories. And because we, we basically allow the are not or we try to put the researcher together with the, the family who had their works digitized and they can negotiate whether or not they, they would how their films would be used or if or, you know, that part of it. But otherwise we really been questioning having the films become a kind of stock footage in a sense, but, but we do want to encourage researchers creatives to kind of to explore the collection and to start to reuse it in ways that would be productive. It would be the same situation where they would have to speak with the family to use the material. But to have that kind of interaction would also be very helpful to us because we don't really have the time in the, you know, as we're doing the digitization to explore the collection more. We do have more people coming in and looking at it writing about it discovering it can help us to further cataloging and and just to have more information. And to start to group them and just to be able to, you know, have more knowledge over the collection overall. Thank you so much it's very exciting. Yeah, it is. So do we have time for or. No, I think we need to move on now to the next group of panels. If there is more interest we definitely have more questions to discuss we may bring everyone back together at the very end of the panel. So I'll ask Aina and Sarah to turn off your cameras and microphones now. And I will share out the next portion. This is Anka Natanova and her two week old baby Eva at Mautausen concentration camp. An Army Sigma Corps cameraman filmed them along the wreckage they encountered in the camp documenting evidence of Nazi atrocities in 1945. And today I'll talk about how the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC is able to restore personal identities in official films of state preserved at the National Archives. What we strive to do serving the dual function of Memorial and Museum is to tell the stories of individual people to bear witness and to reveal truth. As Audrey Amidon wrote in the unwritten record blog quote learning the identity of people is a reminder that a picture with context is worth more than a thousand words. The work of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum putting names and stories to the faces that flash by reminds us of exactly who and what we lost in the genocide. Let's begin with Lily Engelman who found herself in the Sigma Corps footage taken in June 1945 at Buhemwold where survivors are preparing to board a train to Switzerland. Lily and her two sisters Renee and Piri where identical dresses they made for material they had found in the camp. This is from remnants of the dress that family members were able to identify the women last year. Lily says quote these were happy times we were leaving to start a new life. Another unsolicited feedback email revealed the identity of the woman at the right in Sigma Corps coverage of post liberated Germany. This is a Jewish survivor of Auschwitz from Slovenia named Sirika Han with a US soldier of the 36 division. Does the Holocaust Museum create the space to find film footage and restore identities? Staff made a deliberate decision early on to capture shot level details of a distinct film story breaking whole reels into shorter parts. His cataloging approach has particular advantages for archival access today where brief clips can be discovered of a particular place sometimes even directly from a Google search. We also make it easy for patrons to recognize someone or give feedback with the click of a button. Here is Eva Hiller at the Prague Airport with her father Ewald and her brother Holger. In January 1939 she and 22 other children waved goodbye to their parents then boarded a KLM plane bound for London on a rescue transport organized by a Christian mission. Nearly 80 years after her journey Eva recognized herself in outtakes from a universal newsreel. She sent us these frame grabs to identify family members and fellow rescued children. She recalls quote, I don't remember being worried or even sad. I suppose being surrounded with lots of new friends who spoke my two languages, I didn't feel lonely. Even now lives in Peru with three children, 10 grandchildren and 16 great grandchildren. Moving to outtakes for March of Time newsreel footage here is Private Eldon Nicholas amusing the newly liberated children of Vitell Camp in France with a homemade monkey puppet. The puppet named Kiki was deposited at USHMM after Nicholas's son found the film online. Months later a curator who was working with the Vitell survivor Edith Spillman-Frankle uncovered this shot of Edith at two with her mom Helen Houdish Spillman. In the recently digitized sound recordings of the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, there's a funny interaction on day 105, giving us a glimpse of the daily grind of young operators. We found Nuremberg audio technician Hal Bergen and shared this brief snippet with him on his 94th birthday. Hey, Chestnut, where's one of your stooges? Get them out. Hey, there's two of them up at a con, so get that big drink of water and bring them down. Hal figures he was that, quote, big drink of water. You can see how tall and skinny he was at the time, accentuated by working in a narrow console booth built into the courtroom wall. The author Wendy Holden came across Signacore footage of Anka and Eva when she was researching her book about three babies born at Mauthausen. After three years in terrazin, six months of slave labor, and a 17-day train journey in an open coal car, Anka Natanova arrived at the gates of Mauthausen. She gave birth to her daughter Eva on a cart there. Mom weighed less than 80 pounds and had managed to hide her pregnancy long enough to keep them both safe. The Americans arrived six days later and filmed this close-up of woman with young baby. These are important moments because when personal connections are established, a massive, traumatic historical event like the Holocaust becomes individual and somehow more understandable. New identities like these absolutely augment the visual history of the Holocaust. Thank you. My name is Ingo Zechner. I'm a philosopher and historian, and I'm the director of the Ludwig Boltzmann Institute for Digital History based in Vienna. Together with my colleagues Lindsay Sowell from the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum and Chris Austin from National Archives and Records Administration, I will give you a brief introduction to a project that the three of us are jointly working on with a large team. Visual history of the Holocaust, rethinking, curation in the digital age. In short, VHH is a project focused on a very particular group of government firms. The VHH project is a four-year innovation action funded by the European Commission's Horizon 2020 program. It started in January 2019 and continues until December 2022. The project is carried out by a consortium of 12 research institutions, museums, memorial sites and technology developers in Austria, Germany, France and Israel, as well as three associated partners including USHMM and NARA. Content is provided by archives in the United States, the United Kingdom, Russia and other former Soviet republics. In the VHH project we ask questions such as, how do moving images shape our visual memory of the past? How do these images and image types migrate through time? How do they relate to other documents types? How do they inform other media types? How can they be mapped to geographic space and tangible objects? How can we reach a media literate understanding of moving images and their impact? How can we engage with complex history through digital tools? These questions touch on a broad spectrum of research areas including digital curation, advanced digitization, automatic analysis, augmented reality and digital engagement. Our research questions are generic questions that may be applied to any historic images. However, they become increasingly pressuring if they are applied to the specific images we are working on. Films and photographs shot by Allied forces to document Nazi concentration camps and other atrocity sites have established certain visual tropes. For example, prisoners behind barbed wire. These images have experienced a rich afterlife. They have been used in newsreels, as evidence in court, as educational tools for perpetrators and bystanders, as confirmation for liberators, as generic images to illustrate the Holocaust in documentary films and in art. And they have informed a large number of images in popular culture, superseding the original images and their production contexts. In VHH, we identify, locate, collect and interlink a broad variety of media types, ranging from film footage, photographs, textual records and oral history interviews to edited films, video games, graphic novels, visual art and internet memes. By collect, we mean that we collect through digitization, as most objects relevant for our topic are porn analog objects. We are looking for both iconic images and widely unknown documents, such as film footage from the East kept at both Soviet archives. Lindsay is now going to introduce you to an outstanding example of American liberation footage kept at National Archives and accompanying materials that have been explored and collected thanks to the pioneering work of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. Hello there. I'm Lindsay Sarwell, film archivist at USHMM. With our vast archival collections and expertise in curation and education, the USHMM is a key partner of the VHH project. I'm going to take you through the story of an American liberation film from the National Archives. This example underscores the need for the kind of technical platform under development in the VHH project as a way to annotate film content, its format and subjects and the makers behind the lens. Sergeant Arthur Mainzer, a member of the 4th Combat Camera Unit of the 9th Army Air Force, had been accompanying bombing missions when he was called on to handle a special mission. On April 15, 1945, he and his superior officer, Captain Ellis Carter, were told to drive six hours deep into Germany to Weimar, where a nearby concentration camp had been liberated. On the way, they discussed technical matters, like their newly released cameras with Codochrome film and the lack of a tripod, which would force them to do handheld shots using 100 foot rolls of 16 millimeter film. They arrived at Buchenwald Camp with two to three cameras each and shot this color footage as part of the special films project, SFP, production number 186. Mainzer recalls, I was behind the camera. Carter would mark up the slates. I shot most of it and Carter would load the camera, load his camera for another run. He couldn't stand the sight of this. I didn't feel too good either. You get sick to your stomach. He said, go in there and shoot close-ups. When I met combat cameraman Arthur about eight years ago, I learned that he fell in love with a French girl and they decided to marry when the war came to an end. His friends, the combat photographers from the 9th Army Air Force flew over from Germany for the celebration and they used scraps of military-issued film to document the milestone. This wedding gift reel, which is about 17 minutes in length and now at USHMM, is both touching and personal. And it offers glimpses of the faces of the American military men behind the lens, whose names are chalked on slates. The official SFP color footage of liberation taken by Mainzer and Carter has reappeared in documentaries and news programs. It was, however, surprised to see it recut with voiceover in a film print the USHMM acquired titled, Lest We Forget, an edited film by Hollywood director Norman Krasna. There were 21,000 people here the day we came, April 13, 1945. 19,000 people had been marched off the day before. These are Russians, Poles, Hungarians, Belgians, French, Moesians, Tex, English. Some Americans had been interned here temporarily. About half of these people are Jews. Legally, meaning Nazi legal, these people are political prisoners. Here is a three-year-old political prisoner. We know that the new VHH tools will allow us to expand upon interconnected archival sources like these and encourage critical thinking. USHMM is built on the key premise to make Holocaust collections digitally accessible and widely available for research. Our archive is composed of a range of materials, official films of state, unedited footage, outtakes, newsreels, propaganda films, and even home movies. Each has the potential to enrich another, offering varied perspectives on a single event, adding nuance to the official record. And as we saw in today's example, even beyond film-to-film relations, links can be made with other media types as well as with the community, like survivors, their families, scholars, or students. Now here's Chris to explain more about film scanning and the amazing work of the Motion Picture Preservation Lab at the National Archives. Thank you, Lindsay. I'm Chris Austin, and I'm the supervisor of the Motion Picture Preservation Lab at NARA. Our lab is responsible for photochemical preservation along with digitization for preservation and access. We're fortunate to be a partner for the VHH project, as this gave us the opportunity to provide essential content and utilize our scans as a form of supporting documentation to the images. As Ingo has mentioned, the project isn't only about the images of the Holocaust, but considers how the images are, were, and will be presented. The project also takes into consideration the history of the film carrier itself, because the physical characteristics add contextualization around the images as well. As the reels are scanned, we capture the visual history of the film frame by frame. The images overscan to include the soundtrack area and edgecode information that is particular to that reel. For example, the image on the left shows us that the soundtrack was recorded as a variable area soundtrack, rather than another type of track. We can see that a previous copy was developed poorly due to the streaking coming from the top of the patrolling soldiers, and we can see that the emulsion sustained damage resulting in voids in the emulsion and cracking. The greenie image also indicates that this scene has been reprinted multiple times. In the image on the right, along the right side of the frame, we can tell that this copy is three generations removed from the original exposed in the camera by looking at the printed through perforations surrounding the black perforation hole of this copy. The information on the far right side shows that this copy was printed on Kodak stock indicated by the light blue KO along the edge, which overlies the white edge numbers of 169. This might be a bit hard to follow, but what it boils down to is that much like genetic information is passed down through generations, historical information is passed down through successive copies of a film. So we are able to make some inferences about the characteristics of the original source. I would also like to add that while the image of the soundtrack is included in the over scan, we also scan the track separately to deliver as a wave file. This file is unaltered in any way to provide an accurate audio representation of how the track appears on the film, including any defects. The second way that information about the source is captured is through embedding metadata into each file. During the inspection process to prepare the films for scanning, a preservationist completes a full inspection report, and then this information is embedded into the DPX files, along with information about where the film was scanned, the scanning equipment, and parameters. The tool we use is an open source application developed by Fagi and AV Preserve called Embark. Additional information includes the unique identifier for each reel, source creation date, the type of film stock, condition of the reel, data on the capture process, and data on the storage aspects for the file. After the scans are complete, NERA retains mezzanine level HD AVI files, 50 megabit MP4s, and delivers 2 megabit MP4 files for upload into the catalog and for onsite research. The DPX and WAVE files and 2 megabit MP4s are provided to the Austrian Film Museum for reference and MMSI tool development, which Inge will speak about next. The Austrian Film Museum has also been completing scans of NERA material for the project, most notably those of the Color Special Film Project Reels Lindsay spoke of. NERA welcomes these sorts of partnerships as they enrich the value of the holdings and increase access to valuable records. If you're interested, I would encourage you to visit the VHH website, and in particular, if you are interested in the technical parameters to read the Advanced Digitization Toolkit Deliverables. Thank you, and now back to Ingo. Coming up with a definition and a comprehensive understanding of Advanced Digitization is one of the tasks of the VHH project, which has been carried out with the support of NERA and USHMM. Even the sensitive nature of documents related to the Holocaust, it was clear from the beginning that Advanced Digitization needs to be more than pushing the limits of technical parameters. Advanced Digitization is very much about preserving the integrity of both the analog and the digital object, in other words, traceability and authentication of information play an important role. Advanced Digitization does neither start nor end by creating a digital copy of an analog object. Generally speaking, Advanced Digitization includes every step of making analog objects digitally accessible. How do we make analog objects digitally accessible? By making them machine readable. Even a scan of a printed text is an image that needs to be turned into a text before it can be read by a machine. Making images machine readable is usually done by turning images into text through transcription or optical character recognition OCR. By verbalizing images through manual annotation or automatic annotation, metadata enrichment is an essential part of digital accessibility. In the digital realm, data and metadata are two sides of the same metal, two dimensions of the same object. In VHH, a team at Technical University of Vienna is developing two software solutions for automatic text analysis. An OCR pipeline, which is called BOE, and a graph-based solution for semantic information retrieval, which is called Archivist. Another team at Technical University of Vienna is working on automatic image analysis tools such as short boundary detection, short type classification, camera movements classification, object detection, relation detection. We provide these digital tools through the platform that repealed the project's media management and search infrastructure short VHH MMSI. The core of the VHH MMSI is a video player, or as we prefer to say, film player, that allows full control of the digital video copy, including frame rate control and the film strip providing access to every single frame of the film. In a split screen, the VHH MMSI presents the film next to time-based annotations that have been generated through automatic image analysis tools and through manual analysis by experts. The annotations move along with the film. Based on these annotations, the VHH MMSI allows its users, for example, to juxtapose and examine similar images in different films and other media types, like, for example, the image of Joseph Schleifstein in the U.S. Army Air Force's footage at NARA and the reuse of these images in Norman Krasner's film, Last We Forget. The VHH MMSI also allows its users to explore other related documents of various media types, such as the short list card describing the footage. Georeferencing and determining the exact date of images allows for access through maps and timelines, and relates the images to the physical space and tangible objects. The VHH MMSI aims at restoring curatorial agency to its users. Generally speaking, it enables users to study and compare visual records of the Holocaust with their production context and to trace the cultural migration of images within audio-visual media and into other media types. If you want to learn more about the VHH project and its various tasks, please visit www.vhh-project.eu. Thank you very much for your attention. Lindsay, Chris, and I look forward to our discussion. Okay, now if we could have Lindsay, Chris, and Ingo come on screen. Okay, our first question for Lindsay and Ingo. Have these archives and collections of films been used successfully to correct misconceptions about the Holocaust in modern media and education? Okay, so I think I'll take that on first. The Holocaust Museum's archives are extensive and rich and we're still collecting a lot today. The materials are used pretty regularly by news media and filmmakers, exhibition curators, like from people all across this country and across the world. And so it's really our goal in terms of collecting this material to challenge kind of the iconic representations and the misrepresentations. And another way that we do that is by providing rich Holocaust encyclopedia articles and teacher trainings modules and kits like that for domestic teachers. So we're definitely trying. I think the world still perceives this history in black and white and reuses the same material over and over again. So we're doing our best to get new material out there and make it publicly accessible at no cost or at low cost. Another question. Just really quick, Lindsay, will your project or presentation use the Theron stat footage. I guess this is also for Ingo. And I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing that right. The rise in stat footage. Sorry. The, the recent shot footage will most possibly be out of scope of our project we're focusing on liberation footage, while the recent footage was produced by during the Nazi periods of the camp in operation. Thank you. We have a question for Chris. And we are wondering if there are examples where the edge information on a film has allowed you to discover something surprising or that you wouldn't have known otherwise. If you can explain or tell us about an example of that. There, I don't have any examples specifically to the VHH project at the moment, just because we have not been in to do any scanning lately. But a few examples include the Memphis Bell outtakes. And by looking at the edge information there we were able to see that much of the Kodachrome stock that they were using was actually manufactured in the UK, rather than in the US. Another example is of the Ava Braun home movies, where through the various print-throughs, people are able to see that some of the camera originals were on Ansco stock, and some of them were on Kodachrome. And then the last example is probably of the Iwo Jima flag raising footage. We went through a process where we were searching to see if we could find the original footage and Nara doesn't have the original, but by using the edge information we were able to determine what was the closest copy to the original. Thank you. We've had another question roll in. A technical question. Are most of the films in this project shot on 16 millimeter or 35 millimeter? Or is it a mix? And do these differences raise any particular challenges for your projects? I'll say from the sort of film scanning perspective and the materials that we've worked on. It's primarily 35 millimeter with a smaller percentage of 16 millimeter. The color footage tends to be 16 millimeter while the rest in 35 is generally black and white. But from a pure scanning perspective, the film gauge and whether it's color or black and white doesn't make any difference. Ingo, I was there also, I may just add there are also some films that have been shot on 8 millimeter, collected by the Holocaust Memorial Museum, so amateur films that will be included. Thank you. I was really interested to see you describe the automated tools that you're building. Do you have examples of how researchers are using those to unlock the information in the films and put it to use? I think this conference is a perfect example how certain types of documents somehow live next to each other while they need to be connected to each other. And that's what we are trying to facilitate with the tools that we create. So, to move the textual documents closer to the visual documents and to move photographs closer to moving images, for example. And we try to make it easier for researchers to access these elements because the moment they enter the digital realm, they share so many properties that they can't be moved closer to each other. So it's still experimental in many ways, and we will need the feedback of the users to see what works and what doesn't work in the end, since we are still in the developing phase, but I think it will make access a different experience. Do we have time for one more, Heidi? One more. Yes. Okay, so from the audience, does the VHH project seek data from families or the public, or does it allow user tagging in the same way as the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum does on its site? Can you tell us how the institutions contact survivors' families and how those relationships develop? There's maybe two parts there. Definitely. So we do not allow user tagging. Also, we're going to provide private workspaces. And that's just for the reason that it's a project limited in time. It's a four-year project. So there are institutions involved that, of course, go on longer, that may want to open it up at a certain point for public tagging. But that's not what we can do within that kind of project, so the kind of monitoring that would be needed. The other questions, there are no public calls for elements, but there are institutions like the Holocaust Memorial Museum, fortunately, parts of this project who have a lot of experience doing these calls and how to contact survivors and how to connect with the families. That's one of the great opportunities of these kinds of corporations. Okay, thank you. We're going to move on to our next segment now, and I will show this video, and then we will come back for more questions. Hi, everyone. I'm Karma Foley, Director of Library and Archives at Smithsonian Channel. Government films are extremely important to documentary film and television. Today, I'd like to tell you a little bit about why that is, and share some details on a recent project. At Smithsonian Channel, we produced documentary television. The channel began as a joint venture between Showtime Networks and Smithsonian Institution, and is now part of BiocomCBS. We work closely with Smithsonian Institution and collaborate with them on some of our programs. Over the past several years, we have produced an increasing number of programs in-house. Many of these have relied heavily on government films sourced from the US National Archives. So why do we love these government films so much? They allow us to reduce, reuse, and recycle. Reduce. We can actually reduce our budgets by using these films. Because they were created by the US government, they are ineligible for copyright and fall into the public domain. This means we pay only transfer fees, but no licensing fees. Reuse. We consider it an investment to obtain broadcast quality digital copies of these public domain films. We keep them in our own internal library and can reuse them again for future projects. Recycle. For many events, government agencies have the best access and often the only access, but the benefits to using their footage go beyond that. Many of the collections at NARA contain raw unedited footage in addition to edited films. This raw footage is especially valuable for adding a fresh perspective to stories we think we know. Raw footage, in particular, can be transformed into the story we want to tell. Today I'd like to focus on a series we produced in 2018 and 2019, Apollo's Moonshot. Apollo's Moonshot is a six-part series. Its premiere was timed to the 50th anniversary of the moon landing. The series was produced in collaboration with Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum and features many objects in their collection. The footage in the series is a mix of newly shot material and archival film from NARA, NASA, the National Air and Space Museum, and various news organizations and stock houses. But the greatest percentage came from the National Archives, specifically their NASA collection. I'll play the tease for you to give you a sense of the story and the footage. They had the right stuff, but the Smithsonian has the real stuff. With insider access, get behind the galleries and into the vaults to see how one man's challenge of landing a man on the moon sparked a chase into space with rare archival interviews with the astronauts. I think it's probably NASA's finest hour. Film that still dazzles decades later and stories drawn from the artifacts themselves. This is a real lunar module. Relive one of the most riveting moments in history when another world beckoned and we took the bait. As we learned, there are numerous series within the NASA collection. The list here is by no means all of them. These are just the series that we used material from. Because the space program predates NASA, we also used material from the Air Force and Navy collections. And of course, the Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon Presidential Libraries were relevant as well. Given all this, research required multiple approaches. The associate producers assigned to the project conducted searches of the online catalog, focusing largely on 255 FR. This was fruitful for locating outtakes as well as edited films. But we needed even more footage and wanted to go deeper into many topics. So we arranged for onsite work by an independent researcher, Joe Harris, who focused mostly on the 255S collection. 255S consists of mountains of raw footage. Descriptions are accessible only by card catalogs, such as this one. We ended up doing a fair amount of blind transfers. We didn't have time to screen the footage before ordering. So I had to make decisions based only on the descriptions and other info from the card catalogs. We ordered a lot of footage and had both hits and misses. One catalog card misread led to us ordering a role of still images on film, which unfortunately was of no use to us. But perusal of the cards led to some unexpected finds and stories our team wasn't previously aware of. For example, while the producer knew NASA had used radio towers around the globe to track spacecraft, he didn't know that would be part of our Apollo series until he saw the footage. Here's part of the segment that came from this footage find. The American space program is coming to the African bush. Creating the Mercury program meant creating not only the launch vehicles and the capsules and the crew that could go in them, but also creating all of the ground support of a whole network of listening stations and communication stations around the world. NASA sends new employees far afield to build this new network. One of them is Arnold Aldrich. I didn't know too much about the space program. NASA was only like nine months old. They arrive in places like Nigeria, Morocco and Kenya, fully equipped with pocket protectors ready to conquer space. We had quite a few just fresh college graduates who were ready to tackle anything, but didn't have a lot of experience and also didn't know anything about what couldn't be done. They join military personnel to be the eyes and ears of Mercury. When it tries to stretch flights beyond the Atlantic Ocean, they will track flights as they come over Africa, communicate with the spacecraft, and send data back to mission control. I will admit that we went into this project with a certain amount of hubris. We had a lot of experience working with NARA, and this project was actually smaller than our previous one, an eight-part series on World War II in the Pacific. But the NASA collection is a bit different from collections we had used before, and the timing of our project turned out not to be the best. We typically order copies of the films we'd like to use in the form of HD digital files. For this series, the ordering process took longer than we'd come to expect from previous projects. This was due to several factors. For starters, a lot of the material we needed wasn't stored in College Park. It had to be shipped from another NARA facility in Lenexa, Kansas. A lot of the material we needed didn't have intermediate copies. As we learned, preservation copies require inspection by staff before they can be sent out to a lab for duplication or video transfer. As you might expect, we were not the only ones producing programs tied to the 50th anniversary of the moon landing. From what I understand, staff at NARA fielded a significant number of requests during the lead-up to the anniversary. And finally, the government shutdown in December 2018 and January 2019 really took the wind out of ourselves and forced us to use other sources for some footage that we'd hoped to obtain from NARA. Right now, after a year plus without access to materials at NARA, a loss of one month may seem insignificant. But we have relatively tight production schedules, and at the time it was a tremendous challenge to find the footage we needed. In the end, we were able to finish all the shows, thanks in very large part to the incredible staff in the Motion Picture Lab and Reading Room at NARA. It's been my goal to share some of how and why government film is so valuable for documentary. But film and television are hardly the last media frontier. Smithsonian Channel produced an augmented reality app to accompany the series. I'd like to leave you with this clip of the Saturn V spacecraft launching on the National Wall. Government film of the actual launch was used as a reference when creating the graphics. Hello, my name is Stephanie Greenhut. I'm the Education Technology Specialist at the National Archives. In our work in the Education Division, we create tools and resources for educators and students to learn from and teach with primary sources from the holdings of the National Archives. Today I'd like to tell you about DocsTeach. DocsTeach is our online tool for teaching with documents from the National Archives. This website can be found at docsteach.org or through archives.gov. It's a website for teachers and by extension for students. DocsTeach has a large database with historical records from the holdings of the National Archives, including textual documents, photographs, maps, posters, audio recordings, and film. Teachers can access these primary sources to share with their students, and students can also come to DocsTeach and access these primary sources directly by searching the site. Here's one example of a film recording in the holdings of the National Archives that is available on DocsTeach. Each film or primary source on the site has its own page that you can view embedded right in DocsTeach. On DocsTeach, teachers can also find pre-made activities to engage their students in thinking like historians. These activities are created by our education staff. Each activity has a teacher page with thorough instructions for using this activity in the classroom or online with students. There's also a student page where students have the opportunity to interact with primary sources from the National Archives. There are several types of activities available for a variety of grade levels. Students complete online activities through interacting with the sources directly and making connections, decisions, and evaluations. For example, they can analyze historical photographs, telegrams, posters, and more. We also have several tools on the site that allow teachers to create their very own primary source-based online activities for their students. Teachers publish these and then they're also accessible by any other educator through their DocsTeach account, significantly increasing the number of teaching activities available on the site. Now I'd like to show you how we use National Archives film holdings in our DocsTeach activities. For example, we see this 1944 universal newsreel called U.S. Haven from War. A full citation is always included for every primary source. This film is used in an activity called U.S. Policy and the Holocaust Refugee Crisis. In this activity, students will look at primary sources to think about the U.S. role in taking in refugees at a time when the country was emerging from the Great Depression. This is a Wang in the Evidence type activity in which students evaluate primary sources and move them to the scale, according to which historical interpretation they support. In this activity, they're examining primary sources in a variety of formats, maps, as well as historical photographs. There's a historical telegram, other letters and memos, and of course the newsreel. Film as a format for students really allows them to make a connection to history because they're effectively seeing people from the past come alive. And this Wang in the Evidence tool becomes a great discussion because students' scales are all going to look different when they finish. So these Wang in the Evidence type activities actually really serve as a foundation for a much more involved classroom discussion about primary sources and the perspectives that they convey, who made them, and why, and which media types are more persuasive. Now I'd like to show you how film is used in combination with other primary sources in a different activity type. Here we have the teacher page for the activity, the impact of Bloody Sunday and Selma. We can see that students will examine documents from the FBI case file about Bloody Sunday as well as other primary sources. When we're in the student activity here, it provides background information and instructions for students and it includes photographs in the form of contact sheets from the March, a statement from John Lewis to the FBI, and other letters and memos and a newsreel. One of the questions posed to students is whether they think the Voting Rights Act would have happened if not for the media coverage of Bloody Sunday. Providing the actual footage in the form of this newsreel lets students see what was actually being shown to the American people and lets them form a connection to this historical time to understand one aspect of the perspective of the American people as they watched events like this in the media. One last thing I'd like to show you is our popular topics pages. Each focuses on one historical topic or theme and includes sets of primary sources broken out by subtopic as well as relevant teaching activities. For example, our World War II page is our newest page. You can see the topics here as well as teaching activities on the right hand side. We've also included records by format so here we've included film and audio recordings because we know teachers love to find clips to share in class and again to help their students make that connection to history. Our most popular page is Get Ready for NHD. For those of you not familiar, National History Day is a widely popular year-long competition for students who each year pick a topic related to an annual theme and create a paper website, documentary, performance, etc. Each year we craft a new Docs Teach page related to the year's theme and this year's communication and history. Again, we provide topics related to the larger theme. This is a page that teachers access but also many students access it directly as they look for primary sources which are required for their NHD projects. This year we have a few topics that include motion pictures, newsreels, presidential speeches, and more including the United States Information Agency. Students can click on a film, access it from the website or YouTube, or follow the link back to the National Archives catalog to download the file for their project. Thank you so much for joining us today and I will be happy to answer any questions you have during the Q&A. Okay now if we could have Karma and Stephanie come on. Hello. Hello. So first question is for Karma. Comment and question, great work on the AR app with the NASA footage. Do you have any stats on usage and did you find that the AR project offered a good return on the investment in creating it? Sure. Well, thanks. I can't take really any credit with other colleagues who worked on that project. And I don't have specific details on the usage or the downloads. I think the way it's tracked is how many people have downloaded the app. But my understanding is that it did pretty well and that people at the channel were really happy, they felt that it was a good project. If it's any indication, we did another one related to the Mars rover that just came out this past winter. So I think this exploration of the AR and VR space, you know, is something that is maybe likely to continue. Thank you. I have a question for Stephanie. So there was a previous, the predecessor to this conference is the 1972 conference on audio visual archives that NARA held in, you know, almost 50 years ago. One of the major conversations at that conference was about the difficulty in being able to use film records in teaching in the classroom and for students to use. Currently, we have this wonderful platform, people can download things from our catalog. Are there still lingering barriers that make it difficult for students and teachers to access moving image holdings? And are there things that we as archival institutions out there can be doing to help take down some of those barriers? Well, I think some of the themes that have come up today are really relevant, you know, one being context and providing context. I think that, you know, we're a little bit, we've taken efforts more recently to try and provide more and more context with the historical records we provide. So, you know, an audience that visits our online catalog may very well understand their accessing archival records at an archival institution. And that the context comes with the organizational structure who created them, et cetera, but that's not the audience that we're working with and that we're providing resources for. So, part of it is, honestly, you know, staff time and resources to try not to provide too much that's completely out of context because we have time strapped teachers and we have students directly accessing this content. So, I think that's part of it. The other part of it is, you know, which has also come up here today about, you know, these can be longer films with many different scenes and different shots that focus on different topics. And so it's time consuming, no matter what year you're in to kind of go through and pick out what is something that you think that teachers and students are going to need for to use as a learning tool in the, you know, and fit the curriculum. So I think it always comes down to resources. Thank you. I have written those things down now. We have an update from karma. Do you want to do you want to respond to the short. Yeah, someone is mentioning that the Apollo AR app has won at least one award and has been featured by Apple for educators so. But also has some numbers. Oh, okay. Yeah, sorry, different. I reached out to a colleague who said that the app has over 20,000 hours of usage, which works out to 900 days worth of interaction and engagement. We don't have the download numbers but that sounds pretty good. So karma, could you tell us a little bit about how production has changed as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic you touched on this a little in your presentation but I'm sure people would be very interested. Well, obviously, the pandemic has made it very challenging if not impossible to to conduct filming. And it also impacted our ability to access archival resources, particularly at at narrow. So there was in the early days a lot of scrambling. There was a lot of proposals all of a sudden for archive based footage, when people realized it was going to be difficult to do new shooting for a long while. And there was even a certain amount of kind of trading of master material of calling people calling each other and trying to figure out who might have copies of certain films from Mara, or other public domain services that were were currently unavailable. We at Smithsonian Channel actually managed to complete a number of a number of programs, more than I would have expected, frankly, and so all kudos go to my colleagues on those production teams, who sometimes had to get very creative to find material. And I will say everyone is waiting with fated breath, but when when things return to some semblance of, of normal access I think one thing it has highlighted for folks is just how important the resources and just how much we rely on the staff. So there's one last question in the, in the chat from for Stephanie, who says what a great resource already sent the website to three teacher friends, and the question is, do you have a sense of how widely this tool has been adopted. What kind of outreach do you do to K through 12 educators and I know you, I know specifically some of those wonderful things you do. Yeah, a little bit of outreach. Yeah, we have, we have some somewhat of a sense of how widely it's adopted I mean it's, it's actually will be 11 years old. Next month, which is unbelievable but it's, we know we have millions of users every year millions of visits every year. We have almost 40,000 teachers that have registered on the site that use it to create activities for their students and we know we've reached all 50 states, almost every country in the world. So it is used widely to that extent. And, you know, we, we, we do conference presentations we do teacher webinar regular teacher webinars. We do a lot of when when people are in in person in the office and in in our locations in our museum we do teacher workshops. We, we, we try and seed every aspect we do of outreach. You know, family programs teacher programs student programs that we always try and include a little bit of of our Docs teach website in there just to spread the word further. Thank you. We are at time for our panel. We have a lot of really interesting questions so if you need to leave the panel, we are going to be recording it, and it will be available later so even if you can't watch this next section. It will be available so I'd like to ask all the rest of the panelists to come back on camera and we can get through a couple more questions because we had some really good ones come in. So, this one was for the visual history of the Holocaust section. The person writes I'm very interested in your ideas about access, and would like to know more about the ways you're thinking about access. Is there a downside to access or an ethics of access that is part of your thinking. Definitely there, there's, there are a lot of questions of ethics involved. That's one of the challenges of the project also, yeah, of choosing that kind of material, of course, what yeah, our idea about access is that at a certain point. You can make films and textual documents digitally available. They become searchable searchable in a entirely different manner than they were before, because you can search them by typing keywords also by entering categories of any kind, and you may be able to find both the images and the related documents next to each other. And so it's a different type of access then going to users room in an archive, or two different user rooms, even an ordering in different branches and putting things together later on your research. I just would like to sort of respond in terms of ethics and privacy that that's a really deep concern for the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, and you know it's it's difficult with traumatic materials and we are trying to be conscious of being physically responsible in providing access to digital digital materials in a sphere in which we don't have absolute control over context or information. So it's a big challenge for us. And possibly also adds that one of our answers to the ethical questions involved is that we try to provide the full digitizations of the documents. So usually you only come across clips that have been chosen or selected images that are incorporated into edited films. We try to provide the full context and give users the possibility to access the material not just the scene, the relates to put also the surrounding scenes and other elements. Thank you. We have a question for Sarah. The audience member says I noticed that there seemed to be a preponderance of women with directors credits on the films you mentioned. Could you comment on this further is this common for medical films, or is this a particular subtype of medical or health films. I noticed that as well on the observations of oral phenomenology film that the creators the photographer they were all females I was intrigued by it and had hoped to research in a bit before creating my recording but I didn't get around to it it is unusual it's I don't see it generally and I don't see it in any particular subtype either. So I don't know. I don't know what the backgrounds of those participants of those creators were but I do intend to look into it because it's an unusual thing that I noticed as well so yeah I appreciate pointing that out. And then a question for Ina. This questioner is curious to to hear how much visibility moving image materials have it in a mock thinking in particular about how movies like a fair and equal chance could be integrated into the museum for the general public. The, the movies that we work with, with the great migration program, and the, and camera the Center for African American media arts, our collection films are access more through collection search. We have a display of some of the things that we've digitized up near the lab on the second floor where we do the digitization, but other than screenings and other kinds of onsite activities. The films that we are directly working with wouldn't be accessed in the kind of displays that you see around the museum except for us, except for curated galleries and those kinds of situations. The Smithsonian channel provides the, the larger content that you see around the museum, but one of our one of our many goals is to make that content available online. Thank you. Now I think that we are coming to the point where we're going to close the panel, and I'd like to thank all of you for being a part of it. It's been a really great discussion and I've enjoyed all of your presentations. Thank you so much for joining me. Good to see everybody. And thank you to our audience for attending. Yes, thank you.