 Okay. Great. Yeah, I can't remember if it went to the cloud or went to whichever, but that's fine. I'll get it either way. Okay. Um, is it okay to start Ms. Noyston? Okay. My name is Alicia Walker and I am calling this meeting to order as co-chair. Governor Baker's extension of the March 12 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law allows us to hold this virtual meeting of the working group. Given that we have a quorum present, I'm calling this July 15, 2021 meeting of the community safety working group to order at 533pm. I will call upon each member of the working group by name. At that time they should unmute their mic and say present. This will indicate that they can hear me and we can hear them. Please remember to mute your mic after saying present. Ms. Patton Anabaku. Present. Mr. Russ Vernon Jones. Present. Mr. Darius Cage. Present. I want to take a couple of minutes to review the agenda. We will first hear any public comment that members of the public want to provide to the working group. We will not respond to your comments, but we will listen to your comments carefully. We will then hear comments from members who have something to report for this meeting. We have designated. Oh, I apologize. So let me just review the agenda. So for this week's agenda, we have first to hear from members who have met with Chiefs Livingstone regarding the resident oversight board. We want to continue the dialogue in regards to the resident oversight board and specifically review membership requirements. We want to hear from members who are working on traffic control, make a list of requests and have a dialogue about Mr. Bachleman's emails and to the town council and have a dialogue regarding writing a letter in support of Amherst media to the town council. So our first order of business is the public comment section of the agenda. If any members of the public would like to make a statement, please raise your hand. I will recognize you and ask Ms. Moisten to turn on your microphone. I ask that comments be limited to no more than three minutes. The working group will not be responding to your comments, but we will be listening carefully. Okay. Yeah, I don't see any hands. Is it okay to move forward? Okay, great. So this is a time for members to update us on any work they're doing or any events coming up. Does anybody have something that they would like to share at this time? Okay. Well, so I will report to the group now before we start that co-chairs, as co-chairs, Ms. Owen and I have decided that the CSWG will not meet with Mr. Irv Rhodes. We want to state that we are grateful for his feedback regarding the first part of our charge. However, our recommendations for the first part of our charge have been put in print, presented, and are in the implementation stages now. So because we are so limited with time, it is within the best interests of the group to ask Mr. Rhodes to please continue to engage in the second half of our charge by participating in public comment and emailing our group email to inform our work moving forward. Okay. And so with that being said, I would like to move to review the conversation that, oh, sorry, Ms. Spack. So while I respect the decision of the co-chairs, what we discussed last week was we're supposed to get a vote. Today, you know, even if the vote fails, I guess I'm concerned about decision making. I know the vote will fail, but I think it's very important that we follow through whatever we discuss at meetings. The way it looks like, it looks like the vote will fail anyways, but I'll just leave it up to the rest of the group members to see what they have to say about this. Yep. Ms. Moisten. Alicia, I seem to have made you like the full host, which is fantastic, but could you give me the hosting abilities back so I can make you and Brianna co-hosts? I don't know how I did that. I think you should be the host now. But Pat, didn't the majority of the groups that they didn't want to meet with them? No, actually, last week, it was tied. It was three and three. Okay. Based on condition, Deborah definitely said no. Mr. Ross abstained. And Tashina stated that it doesn't want to, but if the majority wants to do it, it has to be public. So those are the three, I believe, and I wanted public. And Alicia wanted public. I'm missing one person. Who am I missing? I'm missing somebody, but I record it was tied. And so we moved it for today. It's just the decision-making process is what I'm concerned about. I know the vote will fail, but just for the community members or residents when, you know, we all can watch our meetings sometimes, like it will be very confusing, like the group decided on something and then the following meeting in another decision was made. It's not a big deal. At this point, it doesn't really matter to me anymore if we meet with him or not. I guess for me is the decision-making process is what I'm concerned about. I know our coaches, you guys have done a great job. Yeah, so it does the whole process. Thank you, Miss Pat. Mr. Vernon Jones. Well, let me just say, given the things that I have learned since our last meeting and thinking about it more, I do not believe a public meeting would be productive. So I'm prepared to back the decision of the co-chairs and I would be happy to vote that way or simply to back their decision either way is fine with me. If I might add just because I don't see any other hands at this time, thank you for the comment, Miss Pat, and I absolutely understand where you're coming from on that. If it were more comfortable for you and the entire group agrees, I would, my alternative suggestion would be then to defer the vote till next week when all of the members are present. Just because we know we're not going to have Deborah present today. And I believe Tashina reached out and was unsure she was also going to be able to make it today. And so if that is a more favorable option for the group, I would also be interested in discussing that. I mean, at this point, the vote is going to fail even if we do it next week. The concern I voiced is our decision making process. It's the only thing I know it will fail anyways. So I'm fine, we can move on. Just for, you know, anybody that watches our meeting, you know, they watch previous one and then today, and then coaches make another decision, or maybe the language or maybe say like the coaches are thinking, you know, we'd like to recommend that we not meet with him. I think, you know, maybe the language, I don't know. Thank you, Miss Pat. Mr. Vernon Jones. I mean, I can see merits on both sides. But I do believe that at the setting of the agenda of our meetings is the prerogative of the co chairs. We're within normal procedures if they decide they don't want that on the agenda. If someone were to make a motion to handle this differently than we would have to, I think, vote on the motion. But I think it's so either someone would have to move that we have them and vote on it or the coach otherwise the co chairs have the right to set the agenda. But that's not. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones, Miss Pat. Yeah, that's not what I'm saying though I'm not I'm not disputing, you know, who says agenda everybody can contribute to agenda it's not what I'm saying let's move on. You know, I'm okay, you know for for us not not to meet with him, but just you know moving forward with this group in terms of decision making. That's the only thing. I do appreciate your comment and I understand the importance and significance of consistency and and following through with what we say we're going to do. So I do understand your concerns and wanting that to happen. And so I just want to make sure that it's okay with you and the other members of the group that we move to the next agenda item. Absolutely. Yes. You know, you know you guys, you know, Rihanna Alicia, you know I love you guys very, very much. So I'm saying this out of love, you know, yeah. Thank you. Yeah. So I want to take the time to open the floor now to Mr. Vernon Jones and miss Owen and myself to report back to the group takeaways from the meeting. We had today with chief living stone in regards to the resident oversight board. I hope that this will help inform the next agenda item, which is continuing the dialogue on the resident oversight board. We don't necessarily can you see the agenda. Yeah. Oh yes, I can see the agenda. We don't have to stay in that order. I just but I didn't know if you were reading the same agenda. No, sorry, I was not public safety recruitment. I apologize. Okay, so. It's just a simple email from Paul, but this was I was asked to put this on the agenda. No problem. So we can take a minute to step back from my previous statement to visit the first agenda item, which is actually the email from Mr. Bachleman in regards to public safety recruitment and the posting of the, or the beginning of the hiring process for new police officers. So I want to open the floor to dialogue for that now. Disappointed. I'm frustrated. I'm disappointed. But I'm not surprised at all. Thank you, Miss Pat Mr. Vernon Jones and then miss Owen. Well, I appreciate Mr. Bachman letting us know this. But the recommendation of this group was that no new police officers be hired and no vacancies be filled. And our thinking behind that was that police department has been functioning quite well with 44 officers. If we are making a long term transition to have the Crest program be a long term program. Leaving these positions vacant in the police department would provide a more secure form of funding for the program both for this year and for next year. It was a mistake to fill these vacancies and unfortunate that the recommendation of our group was not accepted. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. Miss Owen. I also think it was a mistake and I'm very disappointed. I'm wondering if at this point if he is going to move forward with it if the CSWG or members from this group can be a part of the hiring process and the screening process. I don't understand. I was a little bit confused about people in the pipeline to be hired and I thought that there was only one officer they had in mind who is still in the academy so I'm a little bit confused on where everything is and I think at this point for me I want to know if the CSWG can be a part of that screening and hiring process. I will check with Paul tomorrow to see if you guys can be part of that hiring process. And there is one person in particular but we have a rule we have to advertise for 14 days. Regardless of what the position is once we have a vacancy we have to advertise that vacancy for 14 days in order to be able to hire one even if they have one designated person for even if you take it outside of the PD. Just say we were going to hire a new administrative assistant. We have to and they already had some in mind internally even we have to still post it externally for 14 days. It's in the charter. So that's where that process piece comes from not to take away anything else that you said. Thank you miss moiston on Mr Vernon Jones. Well, not to jump agenda items here but while we were meeting with the police chief today he indicated that in the past the department had been interested in having representatives of the community be part of the hiring process. And so, perhaps that could be part of the communication and Mr Balkaman that we're partly responding to that statement by the chief in our volunteering to be part of this hiring process. Thank you Mr Vernon Jones. I also just want to take a minute to share my disappointment with the notification that they will begin hiring to fill the vacancies. I feel worried that we haven't been able to successfully set up the resident oversight board yet or review the policies and any of the preventative measures that I was hoping that we would be able to accomplish before these things would happen. So I'm just a little bit. Yeah, disappointed to say the least, I think. So, I'm trying to keep my emotion in check, because I have a lot to say, this is a town that claims that they don't have money to fund programs that will benefit by poor community. And yet, that is, all of a sudden there is money to recruit more police officers. We've never in this as a group ever set fire any police officer we never said that what we say, what we've stated consistently is if if any police officers leave for whatever reason whether it is due to retirement, not to replace them. And yet, but the time manager did not listen to us. He is not listening to buy poor community at all. What are we doing here wasting our time, frustrating us. I guess I'm not even understanding why we should even be part of the hiring process. So our contribution of recommendation or suggestion will even be taken. I mean, if any sales WG member wants to be part of the hiring, good luck, but what is the point they've never listened to us. Since we've been meeting. This is what we get. I'm just like just I'm full of like really beyond frustration to say the list. I'm trying to like, you know, get it together tonight. But this is just a slap. You know, on the face for buy poor community. This isn't this is not right is insulting that we are begging for youth environment program we are begging for multicultural program and this is what we get. I miss is a town. It's a, it's a, it's a tale of two towns. The powerful gets whatever they want. And buy poor with we get ignored. How is that fair. How are we going to implement the AI in this town. Is it one of the check box. We, you know, we did this we check it up. Yeah, we're providing crest program under funded check it out. Is that what we're here for. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Pat. Miss Owen. Thank you for me something I'm a little bit confused about is was the police budget budget at 48 officers or 46, because I was under the impression to police to police officers were going to retire. So if that's the case, where did the additional money for their salaries. Where was that money found. Thank you, Miss Ellen, Mr. Vernon Jones. The reasoning is that for this past year, FY 21, the APD was budgeted at 48 officers. And two of those positions were held. And two others became vacant. So they've been operating with 44. And that the budget that the town manager submitted in the town council approved was for 46 sworn officers. So the money is, and they're so they're at least as of the last count that was shared with us they were too below that. And the budget that was passed had 46 sworn officers so they have two vacancies. We were told there was another retirement coming, but I don't know the status of that. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. Okay. So for the second agenda item we have priorities of part two of our charge to check in with the subgroups just for an update to see if there are any. If anybody has anything to share I would like to open the floor now. Okay. So with the body traffic controls subcommittee. Last week we have talked about having that delayed like next week because Deborah will be on the road or something like that. There will be no report this week. But I believe we are not have something to share right. Yeah. Yeah, okay. So I did a little bit of research on New York and I did notice I think it was LA was another city that is looking at traffic alternatives, but we have to obviously keep in mind that we're not in New York City. So New York City suggested alternatives such as what they referred to as I believe self monitoring streets. So they have traffic violations ticketed or citations given to people through cameras so if you run a red light or you're speeding a picture of you gets taken I don't see that working in Amherst just because something that I learned today actually was there are surveillance laws in place in Massachusetts that might not make this within reach. Another thing that New York City is looking to do, based on this report that I read was reallocating funds from the NYPD to the Department of Transportation to increase investments in street designs and the self enforcing streets. They talked about protected bike lanes because they are trying to move towards sustainability there and protect protected intersections. So their definition of protected intersections was intersections with cameras and intersections that have the automated walk signal for pedestrians. Yeah, I don't I mean that was just like some research I think what Miss Pat put forward last week was the most realistic version of traffic control that's going to work for Amherst. New York City is looking at traffic alternatives so is LA but these are really big cities with traffic issues and different issues that Amherst doesn't have. Another thing that was notable in this report though was working on the Know Your Rights bill from 2017 to get officers who are enforcing traffic violations to let people know their rights. I thought that was interesting but again I'm not sure what bylaws in Massachusetts or in the town in general would prohibit something like that from happening. Thank you Miss Owen. Thank you, Rhianna. Yes, and I do. Yep, Mr. Vernon Jones. Well, it's not exactly a subgroup report but I did a little research into the community policing issue and I did email to readings that I think would be helpful background for our group. We don't have a subcommittee working on that but I think it's a big enough issue that we probably be useful for all of us to be a little more informed. And the chief also volunteered to share with us any documents that he's been using and with regard to community policing. So it's just a future item. We don't need to talk about it tonight. Mr. Vernon Jones, Miss Owen. Alicia and I were working on the community policing. I'm sorry, we've just been really busy. No, it's okay. Alicia and I both reached out to Defund 413 to hear their perspective on community policing and hear what alternatives they may have. So we're hoping next week that we can meet with them and report back to the group. I think that the readings that you put forth to the group are awesome and I think that if we could all answer the three questions you emailed us, we can have a discussion on it next week. Thank you Miss Owen. Okay, so with that being said, I think Miss Pat was right. We did decide that we were going to give the groups a little bit more time to do some research and do a more formal report back next week. So I did want to though move into an update on the conversation that Mr. Vernon Jones and Miss Owen and I had this morning with the police chief in regards to the resident oversight board. And so I want to open the floor now to see if either Mr. Vernon Jones or Miss Owen wanted to begin a discussion on the meeting we had today. Brianna. Oh, I was muted. Sorry. I thought the meeting went really well I learned a lot of different things that I think are going to be really important for a resident oversight board. The chief explained more in depth what the accreditation means and why the Amherst police department is an accredited police department. The way he explained it to us was that our department being accredited is a way for checks and balances to operate within the department. There's two different types of accreditation state accreditation and national accreditation. National accreditation is like $10,000 and I think that's the limitation on why Amherst doesn't do it, but we are state accredited and what that means is every three years. And so I think that's what I think is really important for me because I'm thinking about the resident oversight board, I think the resident oversight board needs to work with the state accredited agency to get community feedback. I'm looking at my notes. I thought another key point, another like thing that I learned from meeting with the chief was also that there are people special who receive specialized training to do investigations at the police department. And they're usually people in leadership, and they receive special training so I think that's even more of a reason for the resident oversight board to receive specialized training if we do want them to do investigations. I learned that they don't have quotas, however, when grant were taken for things like pedestrian safety and whatnot that there are quotas and things they need to meet. So I think moving forward with the resident oversight board. The resident oversight board needs to be mindful of grants taken on by the police department and the quotas and how that could be harmful to the community. Yes, Owen. I'm looking through my notes as well. So I think two of the questions that the chief brought up when we were reviewing the document one was the question of subpoena power. And so I think that as a group that that might be something that we need to continue to look into and get a little bit of more information on specifically regarding the necessity of a bylaw if we do intend to have the group have subpoena power, because there are there are just legal implications there. And so I think that's something we need to look more into and that's something that the chief brought up at our meeting. And his other point out was just, um, well, I'm sorry, he said two things, and I only wrote down that one. So that's the only key thing. So do you by any chance remember what the other thing is that he commented on. Oh, the contracts. Sorry. He said that he knew the contract fairly well but he really couldn't answer the question about whether there were any problems that the current contract would pose for what we're proposing. We need to do some research into the contract. Oh, sorry. Yeah, he's he couldn't say for sure whether the current contract with the bargaining unit of patrol officers would be would be a problem in any way, and but he encouraged us to to review that. And I'll try to figure out some way to go forward with that. One of his questions about subpoena power was, are there any of these boards in New England that have it there may be in because the whole situation with unions and contracts and and all is very different in different parts of the country. But also now that that with the police reform act that was passed last December and the state legislature and signed into law makes not only the findings of internal police investigations public, but also the underlying documents. And the process is also now public by state law available to the public by state law. So it may be that subpoena power is is not as critical as we had originally thought it might be but you know I'll try to explore that some more. Overall, I have to say I felt the the chief was, you know, I mean we read through this whole document with him. And, you know, we didn't get his final definitive response, but in general, he was supportive of the idea of resident oversight said that it's not in his interest to have officers who misbehave. And I felt he was, you know, remarkably open to what we proposed. You know my my fear was there was going to be some red flag in here that he was going to have a lot of trouble with that I, I think the potential for moving forward with the chief is, you know, we're going to have to be vigilant and stay on top of it but I think there's a real chance that we can make something significant happen here. I just want to applaud and thank you for taking the time to meet with him. Absolutely we need input from a PD. And I'm happy that there was no red flag with what, you know, we put together so far. Another information that you guys just shared, I think is very helpful. So thank you guys. Thank you very much. So is there like a follow up meeting that you guys have with him or is it next step for him to come to a meeting or does I'm thinking more like Deborah who is, you know, who has like legal background as well so I don't think we have made that decision yet I think we do need to continue the conversation with the police chief and we'll want to be in contact with him again, and that as a group we can decide if we want to invite him to. If we invite him to meet or if we are Brianna and I and Mr. Vernon Jones meet with him again or something like that. I think that those are all options, and that we can, we can make a decision and the police chief also stated that he was an interested in continuing the conversation so we didn't schedule a follow up meeting, but I think that there's interest on both sides so that is a possibility. Yes, Mr. Vernon Jones. Yeah, I think the next step is for us to flesh out this proposal a little further there's some things we don't have in here yet. And to investigate the thing about subpoena power and probably get a read of the contract. So I think that the ball is back in our court but he's he's ready to meet with us I think whenever we're ready. Thank you Mr Vernon Jones miss Allen and then miss Pat. I had her end up first. Oh no no you you actually it was you. Are you sure. I just wanted to follow up. Chief did say to look into what other neighboring cities and towns have and I'm looking at the Springfield website right now and their board is authorized to subpoena witnesses compel their attendance administer oath take testimony of any person under oath and the production of evidence relating to any matter before the board or investigation. I can send the link to the group and maybe we can have a longer conversation when all of our members are here next week. Great thank you Brianna. Miss Pat. I'm wondering, are we going to have time to discuss about where we are at with the town in terms of getting a researcher to help us. I wouldn't be comfortable for us to submit anything to the town manager and to the town council. In November without end of October without us having some, you know, somebody or group to help us with all this to do more in that research on up. Whatever our charge is so to complete this so do we know are we going to discuss this tonight it's you know we're moving forward to getting a researcher. What is the status status. Thank you miss Pat so I believe at this time we do not have a definite answer as to whether or not there will be funds available or whether or not we will be able to have a consultant but but we, it's not a no it's just we don't have an answer. So I think if it's okay I can, we can discuss this at the end of the meeting, our approach or what we want to do next, when we get to the topics that weren't anticipated within 48 hours of the meeting if that's okay. I will. Yeah just quick question is, did, did anybody meet with Mr delini at all. Did I thought we reported it at last meeting I apologize. I don't think we did. Okay, so I apologize. That's what that's what I'm coming from. Okay I understand I apologize so I thought we reported that at last meeting Mr Vernon Jones and I were able to meet with Mr delaney. And I think that when we finish this conversation will discuss the second part of the RFB and that we can update you all on the conversation that we had. Okay, that's all right. I, and unless there are any other hands. Okay, I just wanted to also bring up a couple of other things notes I have here from the meeting that Brianna and I, and Mr Vernon Jones had this morning. The chief also did let us know because we have something in here in regards to the authority of the board to make recommendations in regards to discipline. The chief did let us know that ultimately that is the town managers decision, and that the chief himself only has the authority to suspend an officer for up to three days. Anything more severe than that is under the discretion of the town manager. And so I think that's also important information to keep in mind just in regards to the wording of our charge and what type of responsibilities we give to the resident oversight board. I think that that's just important also to acknowledge. And, and yes, and I think we need to also have a conversation about funds for the resident oversight board, because I know this is something that Mr Bachman has expressed the interest to move on quickly. And so I think we want to keep in mind in that that in the implementation process that we don't yet have confirmed stipends for the members nor do we yet have confirmed funds for investigators or other things that we indicated we would want funding for. So I think those are just things to keep in mind. Okay, and unless Mr Vernon Jones or Miss Owen if there's any other key ideas that we missed from today's conversation. Miss Owen. I think that was interested and I definitely want to follow up on for traffic control is that the chief did say that the second that the lights on the, the police vehicle go on that it starts recording so that the information about how many stops have been made and the number of stops finds and written and verbal warnings could be available. I think that we should pursue that while talking about traffic alternatives, because I'd be interested to know more. I know that we did get the information a long time ago but just to figure out how many traffic stops are happening in Amherst, and how much money we could save from alternatives. Thank you miss Owen. I also released the race of people they are stopping. I mean if they're going to. Yes. Okay. I mean it's great if they're going to release. And they should, but are they going to release by race is my question. Yeah, if they're going to be releasing traffic traffic stop they should also release by race because that's that's the main point is the whole main point of, you know, wanting to reform the police, you know, biker folks have stopped more than white people. So I hope you know the the chip will be able to provide us with race as well. The racial. Yeah. Thank you miss at Mr Vernon Jones. They months ago they did provide us with some racial data. And what we agreed today is we would look at what we've received and see whether it meets our needs or whether we need something else. Thank you Mr Vernon Jones. So I think that in terms of moving forward on the resident oversight board. Mr Vernon Jones. I think it would be helpful for all of us to take a look at what Mr Vernon Jones has sent to us all. And that we. Oh, I want to have a conversation in regards to the membership also to see if that's something we can make a decision on now because as it stands. As I said to the police chief today, we didn't put definite numbers in it in terms of how many members will be on the resident oversight board or in terms of the percentage of BIPOC people. So I would like to discuss that or open that up to the group to see if we might be able to come to a decision on that. Thank you Miss Pat. Actually, last week I remember that majority of people agree to seven member with five BIPOC folks. Last week. This is what I recalled. Thank you miss Pat Mr Vernon Jones. I don't remember you proposing that I don't remember that we actually had a discussion or took any kind of vote we didn't pull everybody about it. And I think some of what we learned with the chief may might inform this discussion. Yes, I'm miss Owen. What, go ahead. No, I was just going to say that I am in agreement that I do remember that being proposed that last meeting, but that we didn't get to have a really thorough conversation. And so I just did want to bring that back up now. Sorry, and miss Ellen you can go ahead if you still would like to make a comment. One of the things that the chief said was just that there might be competition between recruiting members for the Human Rights Commission and the resident oversight board. I remember he said that I was thinking a seven member board might be hard to get the stipends for seven people, but five might be easier. I'm in total agreement that it needs to be majority BIPOC, but I also just want to make sure that people who are on this board are fairly compensated for the amount of work that we're asking them to do. So that's why I'm just a little bit worried about it being seven people in an ideal world if the town manager could support our recommendation I think splitting this type of work among seven people and fairly compensating them would be ideal. Thank you miss Ellen. Miss Pat. Honestly, yes, you know, the chief has a point there like competition between Human Rights Commission. First of all, I was very shocked to find out a couple months ago that Human Rights Commission shunners are not being compensated. They should why wouldn't they be. And in terms of it for the oversight board. I think it will be the hardest committee in this town, just because of the nature of the work and charge that they're going to be dealing with. And so I worry about five member committee in terms of majority of BIPOC is what I worry about. To have, you know, three, the proposal by Mr. Ross was three BIPOC and two whites. Am I correct about that? The proposal was at least three, five member committee with at least three BIPOC. Yeah, I don't feel comfortable with that. So, I mean, unlike seven. If we have five BIPOC and somebody decides to drop, we still have enough majority of BIPOC people. I'm just, I'm just worried about if we don't have, if that if at some point we don't have enough BIPOC majority that will worry me about the existence of the oversight board. Thank you, Miss Pat. I think that's an interesting perspective just because I didn't, we did talk about retention, which is also a concern that I have, especially after meeting with the chief, and that if, if we are able to fill the board which is also another concern that how can we make sure that they stay on the board and that there's not burnout and all of those things. But I do recall somewhere in the document that it does state that if there is not a majority BIPOC that then the board would not function. Mr. Vernon Jones. I mean, I'm, I'm also concerned about keeping the board majority BIPOC and keeping it the positions filled with BIPOC folks and I, you know, filling us three slots or will be easier than filling more than that. What I proposed and what we put in writing and shared has been shared with this group and with the chief is that if we, for instance, we had a five member committee with three BIPOC members and a BIPOC a vacancy existed in one of the BIPOC positions. So let's say a BIPOC members resigns that the two remaining members would still have three fifths of the vote. In other words, the voting power of the BIPOC block remains the same regardless of whether there's a vacancy or not. They can still out, even with a vacancy or two, they can still out vote the white people. And the, if it had no BIPOC people could not function. But even with a BIPOC vacancy it could vote with the BIPOC folks having their votes count more than the white votes. Thank you for that clarification Mr. Vernon Jones, Ms. Pat. I would like to recommend that we table this till next week when perhaps we'll have more of the members present. Alternatively, I mean, if people want five member to me, the compromise has to be for BIPOC and one white resident. I am very uncomfortable with three, only three BIPOC member. It has to be four and one white. Otherwise we need to really, you know, where the advantage and disadvantage of five member or seven member. The only reason why seven gen recommended the five member is to ensure that the town compensated those members fairly well. And I'm not speaking for them, but for me is, it's going to be really hard to recruit people to this board. And we cannot guarantee that people will not leave. I think we have to be careful not to set this board up for failure. It's not going to be easy for BIPOC to join this group. So even when people leave, we still have enough majority to carry out the charge is where I'm coming from. I'm not worried about whether the town has money or not because I know the town has money. We've got a lot of money from the federal stimulus money. So 10 grand for each member is not a big deal. So I'm not worried about the money piece. The town, nickel and dime issues matters that impact BIPOC community. So we shouldn't even be discussing about we don't have money. We have the resources. We pay a lot of everybody renters and homeowners, everybody in this town pay a lot of taxes. So that is, that is resources. So to fairly compensate the oversight board. We have five or seven. Thank you, Miss Pat. So with that being said, I want to ask how the group would like to proceed with this. I am okay with, with tabling this until next week when all of our members should be present but I am also an okay with engaging if there are people who wish to continue the conversation. Well, just because I haven't had any input, I'm going to table this conversation. The further conversation on the numbers to next week when there are more members present and then maybe we will also have some more time to think about things. So I would like to move to the next agenda item, which is the RFB phase two. And so Mr. Vernon Jones and I can update you all on our meeting with Mr. Delaney. So, I guess I can just start off by saying that I think the meeting was very informative. I think it's important to provide us with a lot of information regarding what our options are. And so we can share that with you all, but I just to give a definite answer to your question is that we still have not received a yes or no in terms of if we will be able to get a consultant. And we also do not have a dollar amount. Either. So what we have what we did get was information from Mr. Delaney in regards to what our options would be if we do want to hire a consultant and that there are a number of different processes we can take. There is the IFB, the IFP, the RFB, and we can also solicit bids. We talked about the possibility of hiring somebody, one person that we would choose. And putting them on, well, if that would happen that we would be required to put them on town payroll. And that would be in terms of an hourly paying somebody hourly for the work. But that there are dollar requirements also to each option. And so I think that those are only options if we're going to spend under $10,000. Mr. Vernon Jones correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah, okay. And so I'm not sure if how else to proceed right now without an answer as to how much money. We will be able to use or if any at all. And so I think that I would like the group's feedback in terms of what we would like to do for next steps, if we would like to reach out to Mr. Backelman, or how we would like to proceed. Ms. Pat and then Ms. Owen. Mr. Backel again. Hi, energy people. Mr. Ross Alicia. Thank you again, you know, for your time for, you know, meeting with Mr. Delaney. As a business woman, I'm very puzzled why a town official will say that, you know, getting a researcher will have to be. We'll have to be converted as a town employee type of thing, like they have to get paid hourly, whatever. You know, I would think that researcher, you know, comes under the status of a contractor. So I'm not understanding that. I can tell you right now, I'll be very hesitant for any town employee to help us with this work. I want neutral independent. Whatever we end up calling them from a researcher or people who studied the, the, the research before, and I do not want anyone that have any type of police background to help us either. So I'm just, I'm just stating my own opinion. I'm not speaking for the group, obviously, but so I'm kind of puzzled by that by putting somebody on payroll, if they are independent contractor, they work for themselves. And then because they decide to do research for us, we'll put them on town payroll. I don't understand that. I don't get that. Maybe that's something I'm missing, but that's not my understanding when you're dealing with contractors. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Pat. I apologize. It was because I gave a very brief overview and I didn't really go into detail, but we presented Mr. Delaney with a list of questions beforehand because we were unsure if we were going to be able to actually meet with him in person because the meeting was rescheduled. And so one of the specific questions we were asking was whether or not it would be a possibility to work with somebody at an hourly rate because I think one of our concerns at this point is the budget and the fact that we don't know how much money we're going to be allowed to use. We're trying to explore what our options would be in terms of being conservative with money, but still being able to work with a consultant. So I actually feel like Mr. Delaney was really, really unbiased in the way that he shared information with us and he kind of just laid out what all of our options were. And not that that would necessarily be a good option, but just that that is an option. And if we were to decide to hire somebody at an hourly rate, because of how that works, we would have to put them on the town's payroll in order to pay somebody hourly. There was another option though that I apologize. I forgot to say is that there is an option of if we knew that we had specific sections of what is now an IFP that we could group and we would know that one person specifically could work on this group of questions that might require a different skill set than this group that we could hire multiple different consultants under $10,000 to do those sections. If we were to redo it in that way, that's also an option. So we were just really looking at all of our options. And so that was one of the things that we had specifically asked to see if that would be a possibility. I apologize for the very vague beginning. So this is, yeah, this is very helpful very much. So, you know, I appreciate you guys trying to be conservative, but at the same time, we have to be realistic and we're going to get anybody to even go where if they think that they're not going to be compensated for their time we have to be respectful of people's time so but thank you guys though for your efforts. Thank you miss Pat and I was just confused about employee payroll, you know, going into town payroll I was very very confused about that. Yeah. Thank you I'm sorry miss Pat. That's okay. Mr. Vernon Jones I'm sorry you also had your hand up I think I looked over you. Yeah, well I think you clarified some of what I was going to say. You know, I hate to say this but I think the town manager is still waiting to hear from us again about which path we want to take and what our priorities are for the information we want. The IFP, you know, as we talked through the timelines, even if we had a decision today to go forward with it it would probably be two months before somebody was actually hired. By the time you go through writing it and posting it and giving enough time and then, you know, and an RFP might be even slightly longer than that. So where are we now we're in the middle of July, August, September where we're talking middle of September would be the earliest if we move forward right away. It doesn't leave much time for somebody to do the work. It's also we have in my based on what Mr. Delaney told us it seems like we have less ability to make sure we have a BIPOC person. Using either an IFP or an RFP. And for me one of the appeals of this contracting with somebody for under $10,000 is that we can choose or the town can choose who we want and we can make sure we have a BIPOC person with the qualifications we're interested in. I think, and we can reach out to people or we can post and have people apply. I think it would, what we'll get is we'll get $10,000 worth of work. And, you know, if we think that can be sufficient for what we need in the areas or maybe we can get maybe we can divide it in a way that we can get two people, two of these I don't know it's the work is pretty similar. I think we need to decide what we want to request from the town manager at this point, in terms of timeline and method, and what the scope of the work is. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones, Ms. Pat and then Ms. Owen. So, I think Mr. Ross suggesting a researcher last week, I think, I really, really like that, you know, that's what where I'm leaning towards I think we should, you know, for the sake of time, we should definitely think seriously about going the route of researcher. Under $10,000, can we have multiple under $10,000 for with group topics, instead of dividing on 10,000, can we have under 10,000 for groups of topic, another under 10,000 something like that, so that we can actually attract, you know, people to actually help us do the work. I'm not opposed to, you know, us going the route of research. I mean, that's the most realistic practical thing to do at this point, you know, you know, time is very precious. So, yeah, it will be the quickest way to get help. I'm agreeing with you, Mr. Ross, but I'm wondering if it's possible to do under 10,000, like, you know, like that 10,000 multiple to different researchers or something like that. Did you guys get a sense of that from Mr. Delaney or is he saying the 10,000 only. Just let it fly. Yeah. Sorry, Mr. Vernon Jones. The way I understood Mr. Delaney was that if the two pieces of work that we want done require different skill sets or different experience, then we could split it into two contracts and go up to 10,000 on each of them. But if one contractor could do both, if the same skill set covered the full range of what we want, we can't arbitrarily divide it in half. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. Ms. Owen. I wasn't here last week. Where did the $10,000 come from? And how did we go from an RFP to $10,000 in individual research? So that number actually just came from Mr. Delaney in terms of what our limit was for that process. So if we decide to take that process, that's our limit. Of course with an RFP, our limit would be higher, but that's a different process. And at this point, we were saying that we don't believe that in terms of time that that would make sense to go that route or that it would be effective, or that we would even have the funds to go that route. So we were exploring just other options and the other available options had a limit of up to 10,000. So splitting it, if we were able to identify two different skill sets and do both of those contracts for under 10,000, that's just an option. If we could figure out three different sets of skill sets, we could split it into three different groups that they would still all have to be under 10,000. If that makes sense, Breonna, to answer your question. Okay. So then in regards, I think, Miss Pat, you asked a question, or you said stated something about wanting to go the researcher route. So I'm definitely in agreement that we need some type of consultant or some type of person to work with us in regards to some information. So that would be, that would require certain expertise to really evaluate and look into. And so I think this is where we have to decide which route we want to take in order to retain that researcher. So what we were saying is if we were to pay a researcher hourly, then in order to do that that the process would be we would have to put them on the town's payroll. If we wanted to do a contract, we could do it for under 10,000. So those were just the different options. And so I think Mr. Vernon Jones is right. And I think that as a group we would want to decide that if we want to come up with a decision that we present to Mr. Vernon Jones so that we can get a definite answer in terms of what we're actually looking to do and what route we want to take now. Miss Pat. So to get this correctly. This is just a scenario. So we group our topics into three. And then we get, you know, people with that skill set. And then one person said I can do this for 9,000 somebody else in another group of topics that I can do it for seven I'm just throwing up numbers. Another person can say I can do this for 9,500. So we're not splitting 10,000 into three, we're just doing under 10,000 correct. I want to be clear. So, so if we have three different categories of topics that requires three different skill set. I'm just giving an example. Are we going to be split splitting 10,000 by these three researchers are we going to have each researcher be on that 10,000. I want to be clear. Yes, Mr. Vernon Jones did you want to answer that question. I don't know what to try, but based on my understanding. If the expertise required is sufficiently different. Then we presumably could go up to 10,000 each for two different contractors say. So between the altogether 20,000 altogether. Yeah. Now, if. And, but only if we can only if it's clear that it's different kind of work. If it's a similar kind of work then it's against the law to split it that way. Okay. But if we're going this route we don't have to take bids we can say we can call somebody up and say will you do this. We can say we're ready to pay you $9999 and would like you to do this this and this will you do it. So we don't we don't have to go to bids or quotes or anything and we can, the beauty of it is we can pick the person we want if we can find the right person. Now I will say that the town manager expressed an interest in having somebody with expertise. In the content area, not just generic research skills. But I don't think I mean he's not committed to it being a police person. He just wants somebody who's already done a bunch of the work and knows the field. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. Can you explain knowing the field. I'm sorry. Okay, Mr. Scott. So what do they mean by, you know, knowing the field. I don't understand. Yeah, I don't think I really know for sure what it means I think the idea was somebody who had had some experience either with what other cities in town who already knew something about what other cities and towns are doing in the area we're interested in. Or had in depth experience with with one place that had done all the things we're interested in it. I mean I think it could be a variety of different things but it was somebody who already had done some work with regard to police reform, or the kinds of questions we're raising. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. Miss Ellen did you want to make a comment. Yeah, I guess I was kind of curious of the same thing just because the only, I mean, I think the only one that I knew of was reading through one that was called campaign zero. I would feel kind of comfortable if we could consider bringing back our old consultants for part of the work that happened. But if we need someone who has experienced police background or experience digesting the police data I don't know if we're going to get it for that price because I, I could be wrong I think they're called campaign zero does similar work but they're very expensive. They're very expensive. And I think that $10,000 just saying that out loud that's not that much money for a research project. I just don't know how we went from RFP to this but I get why and I like that we get to choose who. I just feel a little bit concerned I guess. Thank you miss Ellen. Miss Pat. You know a couple things. And again, and you know this is white perspective, you know I can't come up with the right word to use. You know the term experience in the field who have done experience with police reform is in a way already trying to weed out some people. I don't particularly buy into that as an employer. You'd be surprised people who don't have proper you know experience in a particular field but you know have the potential to do stuff. The best person if I beat for contract and I win, and I don't have all the skills, I hire people to help me out. That's the way it works. If you say nothing care, hire an errand. So help me with the, you know with a contract that's just an example. But to say that, you know we have to go looking for a researcher that already have done work on police reform really, you know, run me in a very wrong way. This is the indirect work within people out. And, you know, being an employer, I know I've given so many people, you know chances, and they've proven themselves like beyond expectation. So I think it's time for employers, you know, and I am put in town included so really, you know, drop the whole idea of, you know, experience, except for starting jobs that requires, you know, licensing like accountant or, you know, for us or something like that but you know if somebody's a researcher, they know better to get help if they, you know, have question about union how union works or legal question they're not stupid they will get the resources they need. I am leaning towards getting someone Jen back to get this work done for us. Let me just put it out here. Thank you miss patch. Miss Ellen. Yeah, I agree with what with what miss Pat said I think another like more important skill set that our next consultants or whoever we work with they're going to have have to have is an understanding of the law, because I think that we can make whatever recommendations we want but if they're if they don't fall within bylaws in the town and state, they're not going to be able to be implemented. So I think that's more important than to me than having done police reform more before. Thank you miss Owen. And so I am I also agree that we may want to talk more about the qualifications that that we would want a consultant to have that we work with. I also just want to remind you all that the town manager will have to sign off on it, regardless of what we decide in order for us to move forward. And so I do think it will be in our best interest to either have a document or request to send to him practically or to have another conversation with him in regards to this so that we can make a decision and be confident that we will have support and it will move forward. Miss Owen. I'm going to suggest just because I feel like very not confused with the content of this meeting, but I kind of feel like we're running in circles because there's so many unanswered questions. I think that if the group was comfortable. Alicia and I could meet with Mr. Backelman, because there's so many unanswered questions, like how much money can we spend on consultants what is the actual budget for that what is the budget for the resident oversight board. What are the police vacancies, can we be a part of that process. And then again the budget for crests. One thing that are brought up to the group two weeks ago that was in the packet, and then he kind of explained to Alicia and I is that if money from the CARES Act is used and there is a deadline that that money needs to be spent by. So I'm hoping that the town manager didn't budget that money for crests, and then that date comes up and it's not used for crests. And I guess I'm very confused on the process and I would feel more comfortable. If the group allowed Alicia and I to talk to Mr. Backelman because I'm feeling really uncertain and confused about this process. And there's just too many unanswered on not unanswered but unanswered and on clear questions. Thank you Mr. Vernon Jones. I support our co chairs having such a meeting and trying to work it through. Miss Pat. I agree. Okay. And so I don't know. Let me see. Can I ask for your thoughts on this, Mr. Cage. I agree with you. So I'm okay with that thought as well. And I think it would be very important for us to get some of the answers to these questions so that we can move forward. So I would absolutely be in agreement to meet with Brianna and Mr. Backelman. Mr. Vernon Jones. Just one thought about when you meet with him. If it appears that we can't get good consultant help for the full range of things that we had in that IFB document. If we could get good help for some of them. Then we could focus our energies on addressing the others. I mean obviously I want everything. But I think we need to. You will run into some difficulty I'm sure and I want you to feel that you've got our support to go ahead and get as much as you can. So I think it would be very important for us to work hard to fill in what what you can't get. But let's not go back and forth. You know, a lot more times, or the time is, you know, disappearing. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. So I think Ms. Pat. Quickly, I am wondering if perhaps we'll show email Ms. Marston to make suggestions as to the topics that we would like to go. I don't know if we have enough time tonight to deliberate on that but my my thinking, for example, in order for time council and time manager to take our recommendation seriously, I would very much like a researcher to also help us research on the oversight board on the traffic control on the community policing on the. That's one more topic that we chose. To like support the work we're doing so that's one, one researcher to work on that. And then maybe we can look into the, the police contract that might be like, you know, another other stuff, you know, done for us so that when we do our recommendation, we said, yes, you know, we have, you know, researchers that was made to back to back our recommendation is what I'm thinking in the line like that. Yeah. Thank you, Ms. Pat. I was also going to just suggest that we make a list. If you are okay with that of topics for Brianna and I to discuss with the town manager just to make sure we're touching on all of the things that you all wish to have answers to. And so I do know that we want to know our budget for consultants. And for the resident oversight board, are there any other things that you guys would like answered or you would like us to address with Mr. Boppelman. Mr. Vernon Jones. I thought Brianna had a good list a couple of minutes ago, Brianna, can you lay out the rest of that. Yeah, so for me and I asked him via email but I didn't get that clear of an answer. I think that we really need to have a conversation on the budget for Cress and where that budget is coming from because if that money is coming from CARES Act money, it's going to expire. And if it's going to expire, I would rather see that money go to the resident oversight board. I also wanted to bring up the police vacancies. I'm very disappointed that he is hiring but I think that also brought up a great point. If we even are part of the hiring process, who is to say that our recommendations and our input will be taken seriously, but I still do want to be a part of that if he's going to go forward with it. Okay, thank you, Ms. Owen. So I want to make sure everyone's in agreement with those things and that nobody else has anything else to add. Except for what I just said that for us to have subgroups of topics, because with 10,000, if we're expecting somebody to do all of them, that will not be possible. Just to get input from the time manager, will he be okay if there are three separate awards to be given to researchers on three different topics, yeah, groups of topics, yeah. Okay, so just to get more clarity on how we can break it up if we do separate contracts and if that would be something. Okay, yes. Okay, thank you, Ms. Pat. Okay, so I would like to move to the next agenda item, which is recommendations from part one of charge to follow up on. I don't know if anybody has any comments to make in regards to that. Sorry, Ms. Pat, was that a hand. No, what, what is it that we're looking at again, I'm sorry. No, it's okay. The recommendations from part one of the charges there's any follow up. Ms. Owen. This was brought up like a long time ago. Miss moist and sent us over some recommendations when we first started our charge. And I thought about it because the community policing, and I think that we should add to our list of recommendations is that whatever community policing that we decide to implement that we make sure officers who speak Spanish are assigned to Spanish speak to areas that have Spanish speakers, something something of that nature. There's not going to be any other officers in the department speak different languages. I'm pretty sure the chief sent over that information so I'll circle back to that but I just didn't want that recommendation to be forgotten. Thank you miss. Oh, and Mr. Vernon Jones. Well I know that the town manager was more interested in our doing part one and just the resident oversight board and part two. I agree that the things we're talking about with regard to traffic control are really alternatives to policing or alternatives to police and public safety so in a sense they could be seen as part as part of part one of our charge. Thank you Mr. Vernon Jones. I agree with that but I still think that it would be important for us to include that in the second part of our charge and that we can just indicate that that it is still a recommendation. So, I think, yeah. But thank you for bringing that up miss Ellen. The other thing that we just briefly talked about was the possibility of reforming or looking at the Human Rights Commission. Is that something the group wanted to look at or look into or I just wanted to follow up on that. Um, well I just wanted I want to say that that we did touch on that very briefly at our meeting with Chief Livingstone today. And so I don't, I don't fully know what the Human Rights Commission does. And I think that is something that I would like to look more into in terms of what their, their responsibilities are. Because I, I don't know if there will be overlap with the resident oversight board, if it would be in their best interest to work together on some occasions or to be two completely separate things. I'm not sure but those are things that I'm thinking about I don't know if anybody else has any input on those things. So I staff or I'm the human rights coordinator so I can tell you that originally it was charged with doing investigations not the police investigations have always been separate from any of the other. Like if you'd gone into town hall and had a bad experience and wanted to complain, although you could come to the Human Rights Commission about police complaints but they police complaints have typically or should have been going through the chief. We have had a few that have come to the Human Rights Commission. But the problem with any complaint going to the Human Rights Commission is, as we all know was that it's during open meeting and even if it's during executive session if you have more than three people that are there. Somebody is going to know it one person didn't leave. So what has happened and was we've decided to we take the complaint we haven't honestly had any HRC complaints that have come out to be complaints and that could be for many reasons. But myself and the Human Resources Director have been investigating whatever complaint that has come forward whether it come out to be human rights violation or not. And then we report that back to the Human Rights Commission. The thought is that if we do that and then say we've had four complaints about treatment to BIPOC community members at CVS, then the HRC knows that they need to do address the CVS. Yes, if that makes sense. Right. So, um, now they are more sitting as an education body, but at our Human Rights Commission retreat they will be discussing how they want to move forward as a group. So, thank you miss moist and so on and then miss Pat. How come they're not paid. They're the first commission to be a group to be paid. None. Yeah. Thank you miss on miss Pat. Surely the school committee get, get stippend the town council gets stippend, and the, um, the newly, the homeless trusts, you know, I think is that town committee also gets stippend. The Amherst affordable housing trust. Yeah, get stippend. And I was listening actually to town council meeting the most recent one. And in fact, that are some committee in this town that doesn't have to be open meeting that doesn't have to be required to follow open meeting law. So, Human Rights Commission is something that I'm very passionate about, because I know good people who serve on that commission and who could do like really good work, but they are so constrained. And I feel that there is no need to have Human Rights Commission to follow open meeting law, because of the investigative responsibility that they have. They found that they have open meeting law, because they have to abide by open meeting law may even deter people, you know, going forward. So to fight complaint like Miss Marston rightly stated, you know, even with the executive session, it will be obvious if you know two or three people are still there they will know that it complainant. So one of the things I would like CSWG to think about and push for is to wave Human Rights Commission from open meeting law so that they can get their work done. Secondly, to be compensated, you know, some of them have young children, you know, they can get childcare for that some, you know, it could be a night that they can, you know, order food out and prepare for their meeting. So the whole idea of having town committee volunteering for free, I don't agree with that the town have resources, you know, the stipend, you know, will help people to pay for childcare or get meal the night of the meeting or whatever. I think this is the Human Rights Commission like they supported us. They came, you know, and, you know, spoke at our open public forum they've been very supportive of CSWG this is our time to also, you know, support them, we need to change with that word. So I think we should put it in our recommendation that one, the exam from open meeting law and secondly for them to get stipend. Thank you, Miss Pat. But I don't think that the resident oversight board conflicts with the Human Rights Commission. Okay, thank you. Yeah, if you're going to keep all if, if the resident oversight board is going to deal with complaints about PD specifically, then the Human Rights Commission can deal with the complaints that come in from residents, from residents, people who are employed and are passing through the town of Amherst, or at school. Can I ask what the stipend is for the Human Rights Commission. Nothing that they're not stipend. There's no stipend. So no one is stipend except for the, except for you guys, the town councils and executive, I mean, I so I don't consider the school board and the town council. To be, they are boards but they're not there. They're more executive set executive led and these boards are more. What do you say, recommendations to the town manager. I don't know I don't see them the same. Okay, thank you miss Morrison miss Pat. Yes, miss Marston I'm not trying to negate what you just said, or I guess that's why I'm self employed. So the whole like executive desk executive to me is like we're serving the community. That should not be any different. I'm sorry. What about the housing, the housing authority to the get stipend. Housing authorities not part of the town of Amherst. I know that they're quasi they're quasi government, governmental. Yeah, organization. So I don't know what they I don't know if they get stipends or not. Yeah. But, but, you know, people have to run for election, you know, to get in there or get appointed by the governor but my point is, whether you're school counselor, and a town council, or school committee. I don't see a human right, people should get stipend that's the way I look at it. So this, this, all this hierarchy thing. I don't buy into it. I'm sorry. It wasn't so much of a hierarchy and I do believe everybody should be stipend because not everybody can afford and that could be one of the barriers why not so many BIPOC community members are involved is because you know you're talking about a shift at work or can I go to this meeting or the money that I have to pay for childcare I mean I understand that I think the way that I look at it is some are elected and some are appointed. Right, so school committee town council members are all elected, and all the other boards are appointed. It's an interview process with us. It's not necessarily it's just some are elected and others are appointed, but all of them deserve to be compensated if you ask me. Okay, so we're saying the same thing but in a different way. I'm not, I'm not prioritizing anybody over anything. I'm just saying that they're, they're, yeah. So election have consequences. So if we want all the committees in this town to be stipend. Whoever is listening, consider running for election to change status quo. We need, we need a lot of changes to be done in this town. A lot. So I, and I think I said that in my talk with the League of Women Voters is that this group one of the things about CSWG that has brought to the forefront is that there's many of things that might have this might have been how every other department or every other board or committee does it. And this might have been how it works for every other board or committee but maybe that way needs to change. Right, like that's the whole thing. So, yeah, I got it. Thank you, Ms. Weinstein, Ms. Pat. So I like to, I always like to question status quo, I like to question why this is this way, who gets to make the decision how it, you know, we need in this town to keep questioning things that don't fit right. You know, and anybody can raise that it doesn't have to come from any particular person so. It's good to volunteer, but the reality is not, not everybody can afford to volunteer for a lot of reasons. So the town needs to step in people. I think we, we see what happens when it's on a volunteer basis. That's right. Yes, I agree. And thank you, Ms. Pat, and that that is definitely one of the reasons we we want to make sure the resident oversight board has funds allotted for their stipend and really retention because we want to make sure that they're able to stay and that it's sustainable. So I do understand the importance of stipends. I'm just wondering though, if it's in within our realm to make the recommendations in regards to the HRC. Why not. Okay. Ms. Pat. What is our group called again. Community safety working group. When people feel discriminated against they don't feel safe. Right. That's, you know, that's part of safety issue. Thank you, Ms. Pat. So that's the way I look at it. I am looking at, you know, more broadly, you know, I'm defining safety very, very broadly. I'm including psychological safety, emotional safety, physical safety, economic safety. And the list goes on. Mental safety as well. Thank you, Ms. Pat. Alicia, I thought you were going to say that's why you were running, but you didn't. You didn't say that. And I'll just put that plug in there for you. Are we allowed to say that here. I've been wanting to say that, but I'm like, you know, we're working, we're working for the town. So. Still in the works. Okay, well, that's helpful. I am in agreement though, me personally with everything and that stipend to be available for all committee. I am in agreement. We are radical group and it's all good. It's all good. We need change. Yeah, we need change seriously. Mr. Ross, what are you laughing about? I'm cracking your up tonight, right? I think potential candidates for office and armor should get to choose for themselves when they announce their candidacy or not. I agree. I didn't say that she had to announce. I just said, I thought that's what she was going to, yeah, that that's what I thought she was going to say after. She said it, right? Like she said something similar to like, and I agree. And then there was like, almost like a, and that's why, right? And so that's what I thought was going to follow that. It was something completely different. So no, it's okay. Thank you. We have a little comicalness going on. That's right. We need it. Yeah, I very much enjoy working with you all. This is great. Um, so if everyone's okay to move to the next agenda item, unless there is further discussion in regards to this, I would like to move into up and coming events. If anybody has any announcements they would like to make in regards to upcoming events now would be the time. The black assembly, the, I'm not exactly 100 black assembly of Amherst. They have a meeting on Saturday or Sunday. Wait, Saturday, Saturday. Yeah. Yeah. And also isn't Mr. Bachleman is having coffee with the community tomorrow. Oh, thank you for reminding me that I have to be there for eight o'clock. It's with the community participation officers. So that's myself, Angela Mills and Brianna sun read. Yes. So I think that event is tomorrow morning, 8am to 9am in front of the town hall. If you guys wish to participate in that as well. And then for our next meeting date. I think it will just be next Thursday at 530 if that is still working for all the members. I'm missing one agenda item. Oh, I'm as medium. It's under. We got to do that under six. Okay. Okay. Because it just came. Yep. Mr. Vernon Jones. Yeah, I need to say that the next meeting I will only be able to stay until 7pm. I'll be on from 530 to seven. Okay, thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones for sharing that. The next agenda item is other topics that did not read. We did not reasonably anticipate within 48 hours of the meeting. And so I would like to bring up here. So I would like to move on to the Amherst media announcement and discussing discussing our thoughts and feelings in regards to this article. I'm not sure if everyone was able to read this. Ms. Morrison is it possible to make it just a tad bit bigger. You met Pat's part. Okay, so. Sorry, I was reading it because I haven't also read this. Basically, I received an email from a mess media. It looks like a group email or something to other residents that subscribes to, you know, I could be wrong. I don't know I'm just making an assumption. And I felt that, you know, this is very important, you know, for CSW to support a mess media and write a letter to council. You know, as a manager, you know, urgent urgent the parties to like, they, you know, the MS media. And also, it was brought to my attention, not in this letter, and not in this email that the town of Amherst, never paid MS media is very complicated but never paid MS media for the Juneteenth coverage of the event. Like MS media covered event, but they were not paid. So, you know, if we can send, you know, letter, open our support for MS media. I can make a statement I don't fully understand what is happening with the entire situation with Amherst media I did read a few articles. regarding the situation. And so I think they're being denied funding for their new space that they're moving into so that they can. They want to be able to own the building. I don't know if somebody can just clarify that on me clarify that for me. However, regardless of what the exact situation is, I think that Amherst media and it functioning is a critical part of our community. And that this is also one of the only ways that things like the town council meeting are broadcasted to the community. In terms of access and resources and availability and transparency that this is something that I do support Amherst media and that I do wish that we could support them but I would just need a better understanding of the situation. So the email that I forwarded is what I received. So I forwarded it to everyone. I guess for me the Juneteenth, more than anything else, was supposed to be a special event on the town does come, you know, have contract with Amherst media to cover town events, but in Juneteenth is a special event. And they were not paid for that. But you know covering like town council meetings, like that is part of the contract that the town has with Amherst media is my understanding that my understanding also is like the Juneteenth event is like additional but it's not included in the contract, whatever. Yeah. So I'm going to pretty much stay neutral with this conversation. But what I, because I believe that Amherst media is should be more relevant in the Amherst community than what it actually is. Unfortunately, but what I will say is there, the energy between the town of Amherst and Amherst media has been up and down for many, many years, like all the way back to John Musanti so I'm not 100% sure where it all started and why it all started. And, you know, what one might say is that they do have a contract so as far as it goes with Juneteenth they would say that that falls underneath the community events that they're supposed to have for the town in the same way that they film, I don't know, the veterans or the Memorial Day Parade or any of those other annual events and they don't ask for additional funds. My take on it is that Juneteenth had four locations so that might be a little tricky. That's what I'll say there. And that they are contracted to receive and this is I think this is where the problem is and and and I don't know who's going to be able to give you the best answer but from what I when I asked Paul because I was like Paul you can't send me to a meeting where this is going to be on the agenda and then not tell me anything like so what was said was the money that they have that they're saying that they're not giving was supposed to go to equipment. Right, it's for equipment and when they drew up the contract they drew up the contract specifically for equipment, not for mortgage, but that is just what I was told so I don't know where you find out the answers to all of this or find a common ground. But really, I think that Amherst media is definitely undervalued in our community and could be set upon another level. You know, with everybody could come together and work together. However, that I don't know what has to happen there to have that happen to move Amherst media to the next level. Thank you miss my son miss Pat. Thank you for your comments. So I am wondering, you know, perhaps we have not had much time to digest this wondering if the coach here will be willing to. You know, talk with the director for Amherst media. You know, I'm willing to join you guys too. Because I would really like us to support Amherst media to get paid whatever it is. So that's why I, you know, I brought it up. We don't have to decide tonight maybe next week when we have more people. But don't you think they would and then you have to have a meeting with Paul about it too. That's right. Yeah. Thank you miss Pat. I think, I think the nature of so that's why it's so important to have a committee, a committee like ours. That, you know, we're talking about Juneteenth event, Amherst media not being compensated. And they reach out, you know, to a member or members I don't know if they reach out to other people about this. That's the reason for that. They didn't reach out to me, just because I'm a, I'm a resident. I'm sure it has to do with my connection with CSWU. So I felt that I needed to bring it up tonight. You know, for us to decide whether or not to support, you know, them collecting, getting paid. And I think it's something we need to really to just let think about because this committee have really, really supported us as CSWG they've really supported us since we formed and we should also extend that to other other organizations as well. Thank you miss Pat, Mr. Vernon Jones. Yeah, I just wanted to comment that in general I'm very supportive of Amherst media I think it plays a vital function in town. That said, I'm still a little reluctant to take a position as a member of this group without at least hearing something from for one of a better term the other side. It's not that I don't believe Amherst media is version but sometimes it's useful to hear both perspectives before you choose among them and I just like to know a little more about what the town's position is on this. If I was reading this it certainly seems logical that it would be a good, a good investment and good use of the money for it to go to Amherst media as they propose here, but I'd like to hear more of the whole situation. Thank you Mr Vernon Jones. Sorry miss on. Yeah, I just think that as co chairs maybe Alicia and I miss Pat if we have the time this week to meet with the executive director from Amherst media and bring back more information to the group and make sure Mr Bach woman is at our next meeting and bring it up. So we have more information. Thank you miss Ellen miss Pat. Yeah, I agree with what everybody have said tonight I wasn't expecting us to make a decision tonight. I do agree we need to hear from both sides. Absolutely. Yeah, we should get side the side of my time managers story and also from Ms media so we get more information I agree. Yep. Thank you miss Pat. I'm also in agreement and I am okay with meeting with the director of Amherst media. I'm in regards to this to get more information to bring back to the group, because I do think it would be important and that we would need to be a little bit more knowledgeable to be able to write a good letter of support. I'm wondering if you all think it's necessary to invite Mr Bach woman to our next meeting for those purposes or if this is something that Brianna and I can add to our list of things to discuss with him at our, our meeting. Miss Pat. I'm okay with everybody. I think it will save a lot of time. If you guys already planning to meet with him. I will really much support to bring that up with him. I don't need to be there. Yeah. Thank you miss. Are there any other. Mr running Jones. If our chairs or co chairs can handle the situation. We have with all due respect I don't think it has always been the most efficient way for us to do our business to have the town manager with us. And so if something co chairs can handle I think that would be great. You want to join them. No thank you. You're doing a lot already. You are doing a lot. Yeah. Thank you, Mr running Jones and thank you miss Pat. I think that this is perfectly within reach given that we are planning to reach out to him for a meeting anyways, and that it's really feasible to just add this to our list of things for the discussion. And that Brianna and I will reach out to Mr Bach woman in hopes of meeting as soon as possible so that we can get that information back to you all. And so that we can move forward. Okay, are there any other topics that were not reasonably anticipated within 48 hours of this meeting that you all would like to go over at this time. Okay, so I just want to do a quick summary or overview of the meeting before we adjourn tonight, just so that we can all be on the same page for next week. Next week we will be doing a little bit more formal updates in regards to our research of our groups of our, they're not subgroups but I don't know what else you would call them. And that I would suggest or recommend that we all take a look at the questions that Mr Vernon Jones sent us and see if we could just have an idea as to our feelings in regards to those so that we can facilitate a conversation about them at our next meeting. I don't know if there was anything else that I would want everyone to look at for next meeting but just to continue outside research and that once we get more information for Mr Bach woman that then we can make decision in terms of the other topics we discussed tonight. And Miss Pat. Just for you and the culture to remember to contact Mr all roads that we will not be meeting with him. Right. I thought that was tabled to the next meeting. I'm thinking ahead of nevermind. Okay. Yes, I apologize. Thank you miss Pat and thank you miss moist and so we did table that for next meeting so that all, all members can be hopefully present at next meeting and we can bring that back up to make a decision. Sorry. No, no problem. Do you guys have any other suggested agenda items for next. I feel like I'm just kind of doing the making the agenda and so I feel like I don't have enough input from the members. Do you guys have things that you might want to add to next week's agenda. I think if we can have a conversation on the membership for the resident oversight board because hopefully we'll have more people here so next week. We're going to do a complete conversation about our OB and then that's like a subtopic. Is that how we're going to do that. I think so yeah I think in the beginning of the meeting Alicia and I should report to the group how the meeting with Mr Backelman went and share the answers for how much money we may have for consultants be money within reach for the resident oversight board. How we can be involved with the police vacancy hiring and to learn more about the budget for Crest because once we have those answers I feel like we'll be able to have a better conversation on the resident oversight board, and even traffic control and community policing. Right. I'll send something out again in the beginning of next week. Okay, great. And so, does anybody have any final comments they would like to make before I call the meeting to adjourn miss Owen, and then this path. We finished between before 730 I'm so proud of us. That's exactly what I wanted to say. Exactly what I want to say. I agree. Yeah. Okay, so with that being said, thank you all for your participation tonight and I am called this meeting to adjourn. Thank you. Night everyone. Thanks everybody.