 Hello everyone and welcome. Today's program is about the state of the light sport rule and it's something that is evolving and really important to follow and to see what's going on with this rule. Our speaker today is Larry Kleimer. He's the manager of the sport aviation branch in Oklahoma City and for the past six years this has been his focus. Please welcome today Larry Kleimer. Well thank you for coming. Today what I'm going to talk about is kind of the state of light sport aviation as the FAA sees it. Some of the most frequently asked questions that we get into our office. We are the national program office for light sport aviation and pretty much the focal point for the FAA. The branch as you see consists of we're a pretty small branch. We have nine people in our branch operations team five operations of inspectors to our awareness inspectors myself and some assistants and an analyst. Together we all work together to make light sport aviation what it is and what it has become. What I'm going to do is I'm going to start with kind of an overview of the basics and then get into where we're at and how far we've come in the last two and a half years. This slide is the one that we always start out with. This is what a light sport aircraft is and one of the things that you might notice on here is that it's changing as of the 19th two days ago. A new rule was put out to take the six hundred and sixty pounds for light lighter than aircraft to thirteen hundred and twenty pounds. So they fixed that for balloons and lighter than air type aircraft airships. Also you'll see down here the for aircraft intended for operation on the water the retractable landing gear repositionable landing gear. We've had a lot of I guess not really problems but we made a mistake I think when we started this and what they've done now is they've taken and making it a where you can have retractable landing gear on aircraft intended for operation on water which basically the amphibs and you can actually now just bring the gear up and down as you need it so you can take off on the water land on the land and do the do the opposite. That rule will come effective on June 4th. So that's a great step forward for light sport aviation. The rest of this as you can see in the in the PowerPoint here is what is a light sport aircraft. Any aircraft that meets this definition can be flown by a sport pilot. Here's for gyro plane. You've got fixed pitch semi-rigid teetering two-blading system. Non-pressurized cabin. This one here fixed or landing gear or fixed landing gear except for aircraft intended for operation on water. The next one fixed or repositionable landing gear for the float type aircraft. That is now fixed or will be fixed or retractable landing gear which like I said is a very good plus for us. Okay this is a one of the big driving points for light sport aviation. A person using or flying light sport aircraft as a sport pilot must have a valid US driver's license or a medical. Most people that are doing this are coming in using the driver's license. Some of the points that you have to remember if you do use your driver's license is you have to make sure that you comply with all the restrictions and all the limitations that are on the driver's license and comply with any judicial or administrative orders applying to that driver's license. This is the one thing that you do have to take into consideration if your last medical was suspended, revoked or denied then you can't use that driver's license. You have to fix whatever that problem was. What we did find out when we went back and researched this is most people that have been denied a medical 90 some odd percent of those people that were denied or think they were denied was because they didn't fill something out correctly on their medical application. Most people are able to actually go back and get that fixed and get it replaced. What you have to remember is that a special issuance medical meaning if it's only good for one day, if you get issued a medical, that's a good medical. You can let it lapse and then go ahead and fly on your driver's license. What type of aircraft will a sport pilot be able to fly? Believe it or not, we still get a lot of questions in there, can I fly this, can I do that? The questions since we started over two and a half, three years ago have become more complex because as the rule evolves and things happen, we get a lot of questions, well how about this and how about that? We try to go over this on every seminar that we do. Of course, the two place training vehicles that are out there, the transitioning fleet is what we call these type of aircraft. If you're here at Sun and Fun, you can go down to Paradise City and you can see a lot of these two place training vehicles, they of course will be able to be used in light sport aircraft and flown by sport pilots. If it's a amateur built aircraft and it meets that definition that I was talking about, then of course a sport pilot can fly that aircraft. I've got some examples up here of what some of those look like. Right now there's over 500 special light sport aircraft that have been certificated by the FAA. That's from two years ago here at Sun and Fun when the very first SLSA came off the line, we're over 500 right now in two years. So of course that aircraft can be flown by sport pilots. Any standard category light sport or standard category aircraft that meets the definition of light sport can also be flown by a sport pilot. Here's just some of the pictures and some of the things that sport pilots can fly. One thing that we're starting this year is private pilot certification for weight shift and powered parachute. We've been working on that for about two years trying to get the designees up to speed and get them qualified to actually do these check rides. We just had the first three weight shift control designees that work for our branch certified at Sun and Fun this year. So we now have three weight shift control designees that can do private pilot certification. Here in about another month and a half I should have four or five more powered parachute designees that can do powered parachute private pilot. A lot of people will say well why do you want to do private pilot? Believe it or not a lot of people wanted to go to private pilot so they can fly at night. Providing that light sport aircraft is certificated to be able to fly at night. In other words have the lights and everything that's that they need. A private pilot weight shift or powered parachute pilot will be able to fly at night. They'll be able to fly above 10,000 feet. They'll be certificated to fly into any airspace that they want to that the aircraft is equipped to fly into. And of course they'll also be able to have all the other private pilot privileges that an airplane, single engine, land private pilot would have. One of those being the capability of towing. A lot of these weight shift control type aircraft they tow ultralights, hang gliders. And that's one of the privileges that people are looking for. So we are making a concerted effort this year to be able to start private pilot certification, do the night flight training for our designees who will then in turn turn around and do that training for the general public. Okay, where are we at now? This is good question that we get all the time of course here in the FAA. I get this from my division manager and other managers across the FAA. They want to know where is light sport aircraft at? How many do we have? How many pilots are out there? And a lot of the reasons for that is this is a brand new certificate level. And you know, the FAA has not done a certificate level, a brand new certificate since the recreational pilot come out. And the recreational pilot interest wasn't really that great. I think there's like 500 and some odd recreational pilots out there right now. And that certificate's been out for about 15 years. As I'm going through these next couple of slides, remember light sport and sport pilot started two years ago. That's when we ginned up and actually started doing the first check rides. So the first question I get is, is there any interest in light sport? If you can see over the since 2005, which was the very first year that we started, you can see that 671 sport pilot tests were given. These are knowledge tests right here. 2006, it jumped to 2066. And as of April of this year, we're at 576 for a total of 3313 sport pilot knowledge test given so far. So you can see it's starting to take off and there's a lot of interest in it. There's a lot of people that are looking at it. And this is only accounting for the people that are looking for brand new certificates. This is not counting the people that have higher level certificates or private or commercial that have decided to go ahead and drop their medical and fly as a sport pilot. This is the total amount of examiners. We've got 59 examiners that we've placed in a two year period. You can kind of see according to the PowerPoint, the little flags, the blue flags are where we're at. What we did is we looked at where the aircraft were, figured that must be where the pilots are. And we tried to put as many examiners in that area that we can. These 59 examiners actually work for AFS 610. They are the national examiners that can travel anywhere in the country. And they specialize in light sport aircraft and sport pilot training. Yes, sir. The question was, was any of these maintenance examiners? No, they're not. These are all designee pilot examiners. Right here are the FISDO examiners. There's a difference in examiners of basically who they work for. The blue flags that I just had up on the screen were examiners that are national specializing in light sport. They work strictly for our branch. There's 147 FISDO examiners. These examiners actually work for the FISDO and they do other types of certification, but they've basically, some of them have volunteered or asked to be designated for light sport. So you can kind of see these people here are airplane only, but they're seeing that there is advantage to be a light sport designee, a sport pilot designee and they're actually interested in it and starting to pick it up. So you can kind of see we have examiners all over the country in such a short period of time. This slide right here is the one I think is kind of the most interesting slide. Remember I told you there's a little bit over 500 recreational pilots right now. In two years, we've gone from zero sport pilots to this slide showing 1974 sport pilots. These are brand new certificates issued as of March. We're now over 2000 sport pilots and we've got 435. I'm sure that figures up over 450 right now. We average in my office alone between 75 and 100 applications a month for sport pilot. So you can kind of see from these slides that you can we're getting a lot of interest and the it just keeps growing. This is something that I thought was very, very interesting up until this last quarter, which was as of March, if I'd had to slide up here before the three main categories for light sport and sport pilot are of course airplane single engine powered parachute and weight shift control. This slide right here is showing that single engine and powered parachute are the ones those pilots are the ones that are transitioning. These are the transitioning pilots mainly that are coming across. So when you look at it, there's only four pilots difference between airplane single engine and powered parachute. So the powered parachute industry has actually they've really stepped up to the plate and taking this and running with it. Prior to this, if I've shown you this slide last quarter, powered parachute was about 75 pilots ahead of fixed wing, which kind of surprised me when I first started seeing the trend of the powered parachute jumping on and taking off with it. So it is a close race between in the fixed wing or airplane single engine in the powered parachute. And weight shift control is not really gotten off to a slow start, but they are they're coming up fast. Flight instructor availability, this is one of our big things you got to have a flight instructor out there close to you to be able to start this. This is the EAA statistics. As a lot of you know, EAA and the ASC and USUA and USHPA those are the main organizations for ultra lights that are coming across. They've done a lot and we've worked a lot. The these organizations in the FAA have worked hard to make this a viable rule. And right now EAA has a site that these instructors can go to this is a voluntary site. They can go and list themselves on the EAA site as a flight instructor for sport pilot. And right now there's 574 and I'm sure that number is greater than that at this time that have listed themselves and willing to provide sport pilot flight instruction. The part that we're trying and working hard between the organizations and us are the flight instructors for powered parachute and weight shift. You can see according to the slide here of that 574 21 or powered parachute and 20 or weight shift control. We are looking hard and recruiting people for flight instructor. Most of the most of the flight instructors are of course fixed wing. Here's the DAR is designated Airworthiness representatives. These are the people that you need to go see if you want to transition your existing aircraft over to to be in numbered type aircraft. And you can kind of see where they where they are right now. And what we did there is the same exact thing. We looked at where the airplanes where the ultralights where the organizations told us the ultralights were and that's where we tried to get DARs for the this is a very, very important thing to remember right here. If you have a transitioning aircraft, the rule stage right now that by January 31 2008 if you have not transitioned your aircraft over to a in numbered registered aircraft, then you'll no longer be able to do that. So it's important that you don't wait till the very last minute to get your aircraft or get your vehicle registered to be an aircraft and then have a DAR lined up to be able to do the inspection because you actually have to have the Airworthiness Certificate in your hand by January 31 2008. After that, you've lost the window and you'll never be able to get it in numbered again. So it's the main focus and drive that all the organizations and the FAA is trying to do right now is to get this message out to get your aircraft transitioned over. This is kind of an exciting slide here for me. Registered light sport aircraft. These are the people that have started the process. There's 1383 people that have registered their light sport aircraft and you can kind of see where they are. This is the slides and the data that we use to try to place our SPEs, the examiners and the DARs. You can kind of see where this where the airplanes are and that's where we tried to put the DARs and the pilot examiners. This next slide here 1312 people have actually completed the process. You can kind of see they're almost in the same same place. Up in the upper Midwest is there's a huge amount in the upper Midwest, Florida, of course you see Florida, huge amount of aircraft down in Florida. And pretty much scattered I mean they're scattered all over the United States. So this is the data that the FAA and the organizations are using to try to figure out where's the best place to put DARs and DPEs. And these 1312 people here have completed the process. And that's where we're trying to get everybody right now. We think between the organizations and FAA we think there's probably 3000 to 3500 aircraft that will have to be transitioned over. And you can as you can see right now. 1312 have completed the process. We've got another 13 that are in the middle of the process. So we think there's probably another 1000 or so that are going to have to complete the start the process and complete it by the end of this year. This is a slide here that gets reported every month to my division manager and he in turn reports it to the service director AFS-1. This is the slide that we really look at to decide you know how we're doing and keeping up with the LightSport aircraft. This is very important subject to my division manager and to AFS-1 and to Air One, the certification folks to make sure that we have the resources in place to be able to accommodate the public and getting their aircraft across. Right now we have 91 DARs. My goal is to try to get to 125 DARs. You can kind of see from March 6 or from March 06 when I started this graph where we come around the October November timeframe you can see we have a split in the lines. That split represents basically Oshkosh. At Oshkosh last year we got out and told people you got to register your aircraft and so you can see that blue line across the top it started spiking and the purple line kind of there in the middle that's the number of aircraft that got completed. So you can kind of see where the lines move up. A lot of people registered after Oshkosh this year. We're hoping that a lot of people will register after Sun and Fun this year. We really need people to get registered so they won't be a we're hoping to keep the rush from happening at the very end and not being able to accommodate people. So this is a slide that gets looked at and analyzed every month. Repairment courses. This is another I think it's a feather in the cap of the organizations and the FAA. We couldn't have these repairmen all these repairmen classes that you see here these course providers. This is the industry that stepped up to the plate and said I will go out and I will create and get my class accepted for the public to be able to come to my class and get this certificate and be able to work on their own aircraft. We have two different types of courses that a repairman can go to. You can be an inspection course, which meaning that if it's you own the aircraft yourself and you want to maintain it and do your own condition inspection, you can go to a two day 16 hour course, come out with a repairman certificate and be able to work on your own aircraft. The maintenance course is more like an A&P type of certificate. If you go to the mostly an 80 or 120 hour course based on what category of aircraft, you can take that course and actually work on other people's airplanes, place for return to service special light sport aircraft. It's a more intense course, but it does allow you to kind of hang your shingle out if you will and start doing maintenance on other people's aircraft. You can see we have 17 of these courses over the last year and a half that we've accepted and these people are out there right now doing these courses. This is really a success story between the FAA and the organizations and the individual people that have stepped up to the plate to do these type of courses and turn them in and get them accepted and are actually out there providing this service to the public and these courses are monitored and surveilled by the FAA and they're just doing a fantastic job for us. This is the number of repairman classes that we've done. You can see, of course, fixed wing is the most requested course, but we've done a total of 82 inspection courses. Those are the two day courses and nine of the repairman courses, the maintenance, what they call the maintenance course. That's the three, mainly it's a three week course, 80 or 120 hours. So the classes and they're doing them, they've really ramped up this year. There's a lot more classes. I expect this number to double or maybe even triple at the end of this year. I'm going to bring up, kind of change the subject right now. We have a lot of questions. This is more of a, this is some of the questions that we get into our office. We have a lot of questions about proficiency checks. This is how you get an additional category class rating, which is completely different than any other certificate that the FAA has right now. Normally, if you wanted to get an additional category, you would go take the training, you'd go to a designated pilot examiner and that person would give you a practical test and you would have that added on to your certificate. Well, what they did for sport pilot is they did a, where you'd still go get the training from a certified flight instructor and then when you're finished, that person signs you off and you go to a different certified flight instructor and that person gives you what's called a proficiency check. And this has become kind of a point of confusion because it's different than anything we've ever done before. It bases it instead of having an instructor and a designated examiner, it's just two instructors that do this. So we always, what we're doing now is we get a lot of questions on that, how to do the paperwork. So every time we do a seminar, we stand up and we do this and try to get the point across. So if you hold a sport pilot certificate and you seek to operate an additional category of a light sport aircraft, you have to have the logbook endorsement from an instructor just like you would if it was going to be going to an examiner. You have to have the knowledge in the flight proficiency. Okay, so that means you have to have the ground school and the flight school to be able to do it. You have to successfully complete this proficiency check from a different instructor. So your instructor is going to send you to a different instructor. That instructor will then endorse your logbook for the different category. So if you're a fixed wing person and you want to go fly a powered parachute, you'll take the training for a powered parachute and then go to that different instructor and that person will sign you off to be able to now fly and act as pilot and command. This is the most important bullet that just came up. The second instructor needs to complete the 8710.11 and send it to Airman Registry. If this part doesn't get done and all you have is the endorsement in your logbook, it's like having 50 percent of the rating. The FAA now doesn't have any record of you having that rating or that privilege to fly the powered parachute. So if you lose your logbook for some reason, there's no record that it ever happened. And you know what they say about that? If there's no record that it ever happened, then it never happened. So what we're telling everybody now is it is the instructor's responsibility to send this paperwork in, but we're actually telling the applicant, make sure that instructor does it and make sure that it gets in. And after it does get in, check the registry and make sure that you see your name listed with your new category on there. So we're trying to get that message out. This is kind of what the endorsement is going to look like. This is the one that we use for telling everybody this is our recommendation. It should look something like this. It'll say that you've been determined to act as pilot in command of your new powered parachute, make a model of whatever it was that you took the check right in, the set of aircraft. The example that I have up here is actually an airplane set AP-1 of Lightsport aircraft and the signature of the instructor that did it. That endorsement goes along with your sport pilot certificate or if you happen to be a private pilot or an ATP, it goes along with that. This is what a sport pilot certificate looks like. As you can see it looks like any other certificate. The big difference is on the back of it. This is what a sport pilot looks like, a certificate looks like on the back. Notice there's no ratings. That's because all your privileges are done by endorsements, which is why you have to carry your logbook or a facsimile of something showing your endorsement. And of course the holder does not meet IKO requirements is on all sport pilot certificates. This is the big thing right here. According to the 61-423, 10 days after providing this endorsement, that instructor needs to send that 87-10 to AFS 760. This is the address. We've got on our website, if you go to fa.gov and put in keywords for a pilot, it'll take you to the AFS 610 website. If you go there, there's about a 10-page document that has about every conceivable possible combination of how to do this. Also it has the address, phone numbers, everything you need to know as an instructor or what we're telling people now an applicant to make sure that you get this log. I can't really express this enough. If this doesn't get done, then it really never happened. So we're trying to get the word out. If you have a proficiency check, even if you had a proficiency check a year ago, log on to the registry, find out if it actually got logged, if it didn't, go back to that instructor and get it sent in. As you know, we had a lot of questions. January 31st, 2007 was the very first deadline of things happening. There's two major deadlines coming up. The January 31st, 2007 deadline is, we had a lot of questions, what really happened on that day? That's when the Sport Pilot Transitioning Clause and the rule expired. And we had a lot of questions, well, what did that really mean? And if you're an ultralight pilot and you had one of these ultralight letters from an organization, we had people calling us saying that the letter was no good anymore, you couldn't use it and all kinds of things. So the reality of what happened on January 31st, 2007 is the provisions provided for in the rule expired. So exactly what does that mean when that happened? It means on January 1st, 2007 you must now have the aeronautical knowledge requirements and the endorsement in your logbook and you get that from a home study course or some instructor signs you off. You actually have to have that endorsement now. Remember if you were a transitioning pilot prior to January 1st, 2007, you could just show up at the examiner's office, show him your letter and take the test. The only thing you had to bring with you was your knowledge test. You didn't have to have any sign-offs, you didn't have to have any endorsements, you could just show up and take the test. So what happened was, is that all changed on that day? Now those people that had that letter have to now go get a sign off and an endorsement for their knowledge requirements. They have to have the flight proficiency sign off, in other words they got to have an instructor saying they can do the maneuvers in accordance with the PTS. They also have to have the aeronautical experience requirements. So instead of just showing up, showing nothing, they have to show up showing that they do have the aeronautical experience requirements that are specified in 313, which is the, based on whatever category, if you're a powered parachute you have to have 12 hours of total time and that type of thing. So you have to show up with that endorsement and show up with that logbook showing that you do have that time. Probably there's two things that probably was, that could be considered kind of the worst thing to lose, was you'll no longer be able to use the knowledge test for a flight instructor certificate to get your sport pilot certificate. What we allowed prior to that date is you could just go down and take a sport pilot, if you decide, if your thought was I'm going to be an instructor. You could just take that one test and use that same test for both certificates, for both sport pilot and instructor. You no longer be able to do that now. So if you had taken your sport pilot instructor test and you hadn't transitioned across and got your sport pilot certificate yet, now you're going to have to go back and take the sport pilot test. This is probably what I would say is probably the worst thing that probably could have happened if you didn't transition over in time. Prior to that date, if your letter said that you were weight shift control land, weight shift control sea, airplane land, airplane sea, powered parachute, you had everything that an ultralight pilot could have, if you took your check ride in one of those categories of aircraft, you got every category endorsement that was on your letter. And that kept you from having to take four or five proficiency checks. After that date you can no longer do that. So that's probably what I would think would be the worst thing. Now you have to take a proficiency check in every category that you want if you didn't transition over by that date. As restrictive as that might sound, the very worst date that you can miss is this one right here. In our thoughts and most of the organization's thoughts, this date right here is the very most important date that you cannot afford to miss if you're an ultralight owner. There's two things, actually there's three things happening on this date, January 31st, 2008. In other words, next year. If you own an ultralight vehicle that does not meet the provisions of 103, which remember we're tracking that real hard if it's not a true 103 aircraft, and it's never been issued a U.S. certificate airworthiness certificate or a foreign airworthiness certificate. So if you have one of these transitioning aircraft, okay, and you don't have it transitioned over to experimental lightsport aircraft prior to January 31st, 2008, this is what's going to happen. So you might think, why is this an important date? Why would I even be up here four or five times talking about this date? This is when the ultralight training exemptions are going to expire. That's the second thing that's going to happen. You'll no longer be able, well this is a, in order of this, the ultralight training exemptions means you can't fly it as an ultralight trainer anymore, okay? So everybody think, well okay what does that mean? I can't fly it as an ultralight trainer anymore. But if you haven't transitioned it, you're never going to be able to fly it legally again, and this is probably the most important thing that you can think of, or that I can think of. Well, probably the second most important thing that I can think of, okay? You can't fly it legally again because you can never get an N number on it after this date. You can't fly it under the training exemptions because the training exemptions are going to go away. So now you're, you've got an aircraft out here that can't be N numbered, can't fly under the training exemptions anymore. But this is probably the most important things that I talk to people that a lot of people don't think about. Its resale value is going to significantly decrease because nobody else can N number it either. So if you have one and you miss this date, the chances of you being able to sell it, well you probably just be able to sell it for parts because nobody else can fly it legally either. This is what we're trying to get out. All the organizations, the FAA, everybody's talking about this and trying to make everybody understand that after this date, it's over. You've got to make this date. So right now I'm going to transition into some of the Q&A, this is questions that we get in our branch that are, we get quite a few of these questions and what we did is we took them and I told the guys that worked for me, I said okay let's when we go out this year, let's try to get some of these questions and some of the answers out there. If you hold a sport pilot certificate, you may operate, this is talking about practical application for pilots and privileges. You hold a sport pilot certificate, you may operate any make and model of LSA within the same category and class. This is rule language so it is kind of confusing and any category class instead is the make and model of aircraft in which you've received an endorsement. So what does that really mean? Okay, we get a lot of people that are private pilots, ATPs, commercial pilots. Let's say you're an ATP airplane pilot, you hold an airline transport pilot certificate, airplane single engine land and you have sport pilot privileges in the powered parachute. So on the weekdays you're out flying the triple seven, on the weekend you're flying your powered parachute. So the questions that we have here a lot is if you're out flying your powered parachute, you have sport pilot privileges in the powered parachute category, must you have a make and model endorsement. The rule right now says that if you hold a recreational pilot certificate or hire, then you don't have to have make model endorsement in that category and class. So this person right here has a recreational pilot certificate or hire an airplane single engine land, but they have sport pilot privileges in the powered parachute. So they don't hold that ATP in powered parachute or recreational pilot certificate or hire in powered parachute. They have sport pilot privileges in powered parachute. So when they're in the, back up, when they're in the powered parachute they're the same as anybody with a sport pilot certificate in that powered parachute. So yes, that person would have to have make a model set of aircraft endorsements for that powered parachute even though they hold an airline transport pilot certificate. But you have to remember the airline transport pilot certificate is in airplane, not powered parachute. That's what the key word is. We get this question a lot. Can a flight instructor with a sport pilot rating give a flight review required by 6156, the flight review reg, to a pilot with a higher certificate than sport pilot? So the question comes down to I have a sport pilot certificate. I have a flight instructor certificate with a sport pilot rating in airplane. A person that holds a private pilot certificate in the airplane comes to me and wants a flight review. Can this sport pilot give that flight review? Well, the answer is yes, they can. Could that person give that flight review in a 172? No, they could not because they're not qualified in a 172. But if they're coming in a light sport aircraft, which that instructor is qualified in, then they can give it. So what you have to look at is what is the instructor qualified to fly? The instructor is qualified to fly light sport aircraft and qualified to instruct in light sport aircraft. So if I come, and there's a lot of people that do this, if I come as a private pilot, I let my certificate, I let my medical certificate lapse and I decide I want to fly light sport aircraft, I can go to, even though I hold a private pilot certificate, I can go to one of these sport pilot flight instructors and get my flight review. Here's another question that we get. I received my flight instructor certificate under subpart H. Right now there's two different types of instructors, the subpart H type flight instructor, which is the ones that we've all known, it's been out there for years and years and years, and then there's a subpart K, which are the sport pilot, that's where the sport pilot goes. So what we did in our branch is we was trying to differentiate between the two because of the different set of rules. So we called the subpart, we just called them subpart H flight instructors, those are the ones that we've known forever. Subpart K flight instructors are the ones that are sport pilot only type flight instructors. Does a subpart H flight instructor have to abide by the limitation for sport pilot instructor to give to give a sport pilot flight review required by 61 56, and what we're talking here is the five hours of making model within a set. The rule says that for any sport pilot flight instructor they have to have five hours of making model within a set, okay, before they can actually give that type of training. For the, when this rule first came out they said well I'm a subpart H flight instructor, I don't have to do that. I don't have to have that five hours. Well the problem is is that was actually kind of a misinterpretation. A subpart H flight instructor, in other words a flight instructor has been instructing under subpart H, if they're going to provide sport pilot training have to have to confine themselves to the limitations of a sport pilot flight instructor. So the way we answered this question is yes, in the regulation 61.56 calls for a view of the pilot certificate. 61.429 states that a subpart H flight instructor must comply with the privileges of 413 and the limits of 415. In other words the limitations of a sport pilot apply to a limitations of a sport pilot flight instructor, apply to a subpart H flight instructor. If that subpart H flight instructor is giving training to a sport pilot and that's what you have to remember. Does the proficiency check reset the flight review required? Remember if you go get an additional category class rating right now, if I went to get a helicopter rating that would reset my flight review for another two years. So the question was does a proficiency check? That's an added category class privilege for sport pilots. Does that also reset the flight review? Unfortunately when they wrote the rule it does not. So you could actually go out and get a proficiency check, take that proficiency check, pass that proficiency check and if your flight review was outdated you couldn't fly after that. So you have to get a flight review every two years. If you get a proficiency check in the middle it does not reset that flight review requirement. And that's still kind of a question that comes up although I think we've got this one worked out almost everybody knows this now. A proficiency check is not training and the flight review requires training and when you're conducting a proficiency check of course you can't be training because it is a check. And the 6156 states that a flight review is training and that's the reason why it doesn't count. Does an instructor adding airplane or glider category to their instructor certificate have to have spin training endorsement prior to conducting proficiency check? This is a question that's coming out in huge numbers now because this is the last year of transitioning training, the transitioning BFIs under the ultralight system can transition across. So what they're saying is is I have a I'm doing a proficiency check to get an additional instructor privilege added on to my instructor certificate. So let's say I started out as a powered parachute instructor and now I'm going to get a proficiency check to be an airplane instructor. Do I have to have that spin training and then spin training endorsement prior to doing that proficiency check which normally I would have to have if I was doing an initial check with a DPE I'd have to have that spin training. Right now the rule does not require spin training under proficiency check. So if you're conducting a proficiency check in airplane or glider and you don't have that endorsement it's not required. So you could actually get your instructor certificate for airplane or glider and never have received or got the endorsement for spin training. How do I figure out which set of aircraft my the aircraft that I have belongs in? I have a skybolt powered parachute on I have a skybolt parachute on my powered parachute which is partially square partially elliptical. Remember for powered parachute you have the set of aircraft is a square shoot or an elliptical shoot. So how do I figure out which one it is? The owner of the aircraft decides. So when you're when you're up there and you're figuring out you get your and this is really needs to be decided when you get your airway than a certificate. If you have an aircraft no matter what it is an airplane powered parachute weight shift if you have this aircraft and at the point in time when you get the airway than a certificate is when I would say okay it fits in this set of aircraft right here and the owner is the one that decides and it's based on design performance characteristics handling characteristics. So and if you if you need help you can call our office you know we'll we'll talk to you about it and give you some guidance. Also the DAR could probably help you in this in this trying to figure out if it's you know if you can't really figure out which one it falls into. Okay I'm a glider I'm a CFI glider I've added a CFI airplane via 419 which is the the proficiency check for flight instructors. Can this be counted towards a CFI renewal? This is another big one we get. You've taken this check I want it to renew my CFI so I can renew my CFI for another year. This kind of falls under the same thing as a flight review. No it does not. A proficiency check is used for adding additional instructor privileges and it is not one of the methods that can be used for renewal of a flight instructor certificate. So and we've had a lot of people that have actually I won't say a lot of people we've had some people that they're CFI they thought this renewed their CFI and it didn't and their CFI actually laps and then they had to go back in for reinstatement of their CFI. So if you are an instructor out there and you get an additional sport pilot instructor privileges and you do it via proficiency check your CFI still expires on the date that's on your card. Okay coming up to kind of the end here what's the future of LSA? What do we see is the FAA of the future of LSA sport and recreation. Most of these type of aircraft that I'm showing right now like this is a destiny powered parachute. These type are for sport and recreation you've seen how the slides that I've given you and showed you how fast this sport is growing. Here's an air creation trike I think and this is kind of our philosophy in the light sport branch these types of aircraft are going to continue growing. As a matter of fact from last year when I was here to when I showed up here this year I noticed four more trike vendors brand new manufacturers of trikes. So I think that this is going to going to move forward and really explode our branch thanks to that and of course the organizations and the FAA wants it to continue growing. These types of aircraft here this is the what we call the high drag aircraft a little fun flying on the weekends some of the these three that I've shown you are I think it's just going to keep growing and growing and growing. I'm pretty excited about it my branch is pretty excited about it you know we're just we're just thinking this is the greatest the greatest thing in the world but we're also starting to get a lot of questions about flight training primary instrument training personal transportation 141 schools are starting to to pilot schools are starting to call us wanting to use these aircraft in 141 flight training for private pilot for instrument pilot training this is the more of the high-end type aircraft this the Stingsport here you can kind of see these airplanes they're looking you know these are fast fun easy to fly type aircraft a lot of 141 schools are looking at these type of aircraft to replace the aging fleet that they have right now the operating cost of these aircraft with the Rotex engine on them are just phenomenal I mean they just they don't hardly cost anything to fly you can see there's a lot of different type of aircraft coming in from overseas they've had their micro light rule for a long time overseas and these type of aircraft they're just they're flooding the U.S. market which is a good thing you know two years ago we had zero type of this type of aircraft coming in I believe it was last year they said they had over 22 different manufacturers that have entered the United States with this type of what we're calling the you know the the high end of sport pilot if you will these aircraft come equipped they're bigger wider faster than the 172s the 152s that we all learned to fly in the Piper type aircraft a lot of them have glass type cockpits in them you know they're they're full solid state I mean just just fantastic looking airplanes and you if you've been here at Sun and Fun you can go out and look at them or right right there right there on the ramp but what we're looking at and if you're if you've been out there right now and you walk past the Cessna plant you can see the Cessna concept aircraft we're looking at this and believe it or not I've actually had a lot of other manufacturers that are hoping that Cessna is going to come into the market I believe you know they've taken their aircraft moved it all around the country they're getting a lot of positive impact from it I talked to the Cessna representative yesterday they're all excited about it if Cessna enters the market then it's just going to keep the momentum going if they come in the other aircraft manufacturers are looking at it at Cessna as not really competition but additional strength in the light sport market so we really think that the future of light sport is and light sport aircraft sport pilots is there we think it's going to continue growing the organizations that we're partnered with and working with think it's going to continue growing like I said there's 141 flight schools looking at these aircraft looking at training pilots not only as sport pilots but private pilots and instrument pilots so we think that the future is strong and going to continue to go stronger and that's all for my for my presentation so I thank you for your time I'll be here after the presentation if anybody has any questions and I appreciate your time and coming to see it thank you