 looking at the patterns that I was recognizing when I was traveling, I started to see that there was more things that were bringing us together than separating us, right? And I saw that in not only a human aspect but a technological aspect, I saw this verge and this rise of this kind of co-mingling between humans and technology. And as humans, we've always been around technology. Fire is a form of technology, right? It's only through this scientific or this technological process where we create it at N2B technology, shoes or technology, shirts, all different types of elements of our everyday lives or technology. But what I started to see is that there was this exploration that I was interested in through the interconnections between humans, living systems and technology. So cyborg anthropology is really around this framing. Marcus D. Andersen is my guest on this episode of Inside Ideas brought to you by 1.5 Media and Innovators Magazine. Seeking to be globally impactful, Marcus created the World Education Foundation in 2009. Through this mission, he has traveled to over 81 countries and developed on-site programs in 21 of those countries. During this time, Marcus gained a plethora of knowledge and expertise at the nexus of indigenous wisdom, modern technology and future communities. After writing a PhD proposal in 2017, focused on cyborg anthropology, Marcus accepted an invitation to participate in the Global Solutions Program hosted by Singularity University and NASA. He created Urban Matrix One, which utilizes satellite technology, unique data sets and machine learning to provide actionable insights to climate challenges. With an RFID chip internally implanted, Marcus is a cyborg with a deep passion for ancestral wisdom, recognizing intersectional patterns and creating personal and communal transformation in sync with natural systems. His expertise in these fields has led him to co-found ISM.Earth with Ada Paris, who was also on this show as a podcast guest, good friend and a wonderful person where they are developing a co-lab venture studio and several businesses around artistic expression, emerging technologies, regenerative futures and rethinking policy. First pilot will be in the Tom Minor Basin summer of 2021. So right about now, coming up soon. More broadly, Marcus is a polymath, speaker, writer and entrepreneur currently mobilizing his experiences to help multiple businesses, industries and communities reimagine the future. He develops clear strategies and frameworks to solve complex challenges and articulates purpose-driven solutions through keynotes and client sessions. After choosing to leave a career as an elite athlete in the NFL, Marcus has inspired others to live their truth through the power of the pivot. Through his journey has embodied resilience, focus, sacrifice and discipline to become a leader in multiple fields. Marcus, welcome to the podcast. It's so good to have you here. It's so great to be here, Mark. Yeah, thank you so much. We run in very similar circles and Ada has told me such wonderful things about you. So I'm just really happy to be with you as well as your audience. Thank you for having me. It's wonderful that you're here. I'm so glad that you are. And you hit it on the nail. We really have run in a lot of the similar circles. So you've spoken at Twin Global. You've gave a wonderful discussion there. You've been at Singularity. We both know Ada. I love her to death. Our podcast was fabulous. She's a sheer pleasure. And she actually says, you really need to speak to my partner on ISM. And we actually talked about ISM on the podcast. Then there's, you know, there's KinnerNet. There's obviously Paul Hock in the drawdown. I've got his book here, Natural Capitalism. And you mentioned a lot, you know, that we'll get into this probably in a minute, but you really have talked about it. It was an inspiration after you left your career in NFL or chose to leave that you really read that in it and kind of got you to look at the world in different ways. Another good friend of mine who's been on the podcast, Cindy Chin, from CLC Advisors. She's also spoken there. So I don't know how our paths haven't crossed more or we've seen. The other one is Yaro Craner, The Hatch Experiences. You've been everywhere with Hatch and done things, the Hatch experience, the impact labs, everything. And it's just been a sheer pleasure seeing you evolve and grow in all the wonderful things that you're doing. We're gonna talk about the World Education Foundation, Urban Matrix One and the many, many other things you do today. But first of all, I could have went on for probably another hour just to give your bio on what you've done. You've really kind of tried to experience it all and try to get out there on the ground, indigenous wisdoms, looking at different cultures, different countries to see what it's like, to what's going on, to make a clear assessment. You have a wonderful degree from Lin Schuping, there we go, University of Sweden. And you lived in Oslo, Norway today, you're coming to us from California. You're basically a global citizen. But with all this in mind, with everything that kind of in this introduction and our paths crossed, I've really got to start with the question. We've just been through 15 plus months of absolute sheer craziness in any aspect that you could imagine, not just the pandemic, but many other things. And I want to know how have you weathered the storm and has all that experience, all those things that you've done in the past, are they giving you a little bit more resilience or a better business model or operating model for life to weather this a little bit better than normal or maybe others? You know, I can't speak about others, but definitely for me personally, this liminal space has been really, really almost conformational, right? I feel like the work that I've been doing has really been preparing for this time, where this liminal space of transition and transmutation and metamorphicism is happening in a real way. And I think through that work, I've really been able to hone in on my own personal kind of goals and what values that I have stuck to, that have really kind of helped me, as you mentioned, to be more resilient. And then also, I think it really helped me to gather my tribe in a very specific way. Before you would have to kind of go meet people, be there at the conferences, be personal, but this has opened up through the digital space, which I'm very interested in that human and digital connection, but this space has actually opened up a lot of opportunities for workers that have been kind of grinding at this for years and years to start setting some new platforms, some new pathways that could be beneficial for the future. During that time, you mentioned Hatch, and I was actually facilitating a lot of the global living rooms that were being offered. So Yarl Kramer and the team there just did a magnificent job of bringing people together through the digital space to have conversations, to meet, to have provocations, to do the emotional healing part of it as well, because this was very difficult for some people. So holding that space and really planning what the future looks like, I feel like this was a really opportune time for me. I'm so glad that you're still here. You weathered it. Matter of fact, I knew that, but I always want to hear from you. I want to know how your experience was. Actually, our friend, Ada, she had some losses during this time, and I would have to say, yeah, it was pretty rough, but she still weathered it fairly good with all considering, and I believe a lot of that has to do with a good support structure and also a lot of experience on how do you get through times like this? How are we prepared for what's coming down the line in our world? And with those things that you're doing and that you want to do for the world, I really think that gives you a better operating model to weather these times, but also to change those times so that in the future, we have a brighter world to look forward to. Having said that, I think we really should start off right away first to talk about ISM. So Ada and I touched upon it and you guys were doing a lot of work and you've recently just done some fabulous more work and I'd like to kind of touch upon that as well. You provided me with a nice video that I'd like to show. It's about three minutes long. It's narrated, so even our podcast listeners will be able to enjoy it and understand it, but we'll put a link in the show description so that they can go view it later. And then I'd like you to tell us a little bit more about what's going on if that's okay with you. Indeed, I think that's the perfect way forward. Thank you. Okay, you bet. Here we go. What type of ancestor do you want to be? This is the question we orientate ourselves around as we embark on an exciting future. And as we emerge from this liminal space, we have a unique opportunity to reimagine what is possible. Through a considerate and concerted effort, we are creating a new narrative that revisits the past, acknowledges the present, and sets the containers and conditions to co-design a regenerative future. And we want you to be a part of this story. As we move to transform from the I-human to the we-human, Ism.Earth and the Common Ground Project are setting the course for reorientation to ourselves, our communities, and the planet. The results of bringing our hearts, minds, and expertise together is manifesting in our first five-day retreat on the Serene Anderson Ranch and the Tom Minor Basin. From July 27th through August 1st, we are inviting 18 highly curated anti-disciplinary practitioners to be a part of the Ism.Earth Co-Labs, which will operate as distributed networks of localized spaces focused on regional world building in four key areas. First is artistic expression. Second, emerging technologies. Third, regenerative futures or civic solutions. And fourth, rethinking policy. Through this experience, you will be guided through a proprietary framework that will enable you to leave old pathways behind, breathe and develop a clear hypothesis for change. Grow through identifying the tools, technologies, models, and MVPs that activate your hypothesis for change. Activate the flow needed to create new rituals, habits, and behaviors, and the ability and awareness to ground all of these tools into mobilizing this transformation into your life, practice, business, research, and or community. The extension of this experience will be cultivated through additional co-labs in selected places throughout North America, growing globally. Additional co-labs will be developed to generate the resources to shift behavior, create new ventures, and reimagine our symbiotic relationship to the planet. Together, we will generate the resources to shift social behaviors, embody new language, explore mutually beneficial human environment relationships, and enter into a novel community of change makers who are activating the regenerative spirit, both in self and community. Join us. Absolutely amazing, you know, breathtaking scenery, breathtaking event, I can feel it there. Thank you for sharing that with us. I don't think, I'm not sure how you could follow that up and say anymore, but it's up to you because I'd like you to kind of frame it a little bit more for us and get us up to speed, but who didn't get that must not have been watching or listening. Yeah, you know, thank you. You know, super excited about this project. You know, I think that this has been a culmination of a lot of the work that Adda and I have been doing over the years, you know, really being able to hone it in on something practical. So it's kind of like you have these visions and you start to recognize patterns. And what you want to do is be able to bring that down in a very tangible way. And I think this gives us the opportunity to bring all of these ideas of how do we create these regenerative communities? And I think Adda and I's work, you know, really surfaces around that nexus of indigenous wisdom, modern technology, and what does future society actually look like? And it takes more than just one or two people. So you have to have the space and the place and the land to really bring those individuals, anti-disciplinary individuals together as a catalyst to creating this change. And it may start with a small group, but as you start to build and exchange ideas, we really look at this actually expanding and starting to catch, you know, we really hold the conversations and do the work which is needed to actually create these better futures. So super excited about the project. You know, we're really forming and looking at it as a land operating type of co-lab where we have these different tentacles that are feeding into isn't that earth where we can start to expand some of these larger ideas and really bring them into reality. That's so beautiful. And I really appreciate you sharing that with me for probably, I would say, well before the pandemic. So for at least the last two years, the intensification of speaking about regenerative, regeneration, matter of fact, we're both in some respects kind of fans or see Paul Hawkin as a mentor. His new book that comes out in September is called Regeneration. I spoke for sustainable brands, Kuala Lumpur, Thailand and Yokohama, Japan. And at all of those events that the theme was regenerative futures, regenerative economies. The only thing that I really think is always funny and this is also where the trend has taken us for a long time is when they asked me to speak it's they believe that I'm gonna only speak about regenerative farming or regenerative agriculture. And that's kind of the biggest myth or misconception because regenerative is a part of the symbiotic earth. And I know of the symbiosis is really something that you and I talked about a lot as well. But it's about a regenerative economies. It's a, you know, I've even heard not just Paul Hawkin talk about it, but also John Elkington who wrote Green Swans talk about regenerative capitalism. It's really about every aspect of life, humanity, economy, ecology, environment that has to do with regenerative and regeneration of our worlds. And so it's really interesting that that is finally we're seeing the tools from you and from ism on that. So I mean, what are some other things that you're excited about as far as this moving forward? Do you already have a lot of people have already signed up and how many places are there and who are the people you're looking for to attend this event? Yeah, great question. You know, just to speak on what you spoke on just recently you know, through every year my work really continues to come closer and closer to leaning on indigenous practices. So when we talk about regeneration it's really about not sustainability because if we sustained what we're doing right now it's not gonna lead us into the place that we really need to be. And regeneration is really the ethos of getting back to this symbiotic relationship, right? And really looking at the relationality between humans and all living systems. And with respect to the Blackfeet nation, you know we really wanna flip Maslow's hierarchy of needs switching from a focus of the I human really to the we human, right? And create those containers and conditions which allow us to operate within that we ecosystem. And I think when we're talking about ism.earth and we're talking about the land work and the ecology and regeneration we're really talking about bringing those individuals that have different pieces of those elements, right? So if we talk about ether, fire, water, air and we start to get it in earth we start to get into what are the elements that we need to go remember in order to map on what we need to do right now to build those futures that we need in the future. So from July 27th to August 1st we're bringing about 18 anti-disciplinary individuals together on the land. Malou Anderson, Daniel Anderson have been our co-partners, co-conspirators and they actually owned a large branch in the Tom Miner Basin and they're just doing some phenomenal work about bringing these concepts together and bringing these people together, healers, change makers, technologists, you know, agronomists you know, aquariums, all different type of individuals that you would think may not have overlap but once you get them in the same space have them orientated around, you know what it means to have a symbiotic relationship to the planet then you start to create this magic, right? So our job is really to facilitate and to bring our experiences together to really activate this group of individuals that can carry the water forward. I love that. Are they related to you at all, Anderson? Or is there a difference? Maybe somehow, some way but you know, that's another confirmation, you know from the universe and that's they're the right people to work with, you know and I think through that connection there's just so much resonance. So just super excited to work with them, wonderful people, they're doing great work there. Yeah, that's fabulous. You know, a lot of people so you brought up some very interesting things I'm very passionate about this and speak about a lot so not only did I speak about regenerative a lot and a lot of people misunderstand that the word regenerative really means creating conditions conducive for life to continuously renew itself to transcend into new forms and to flourish amid ever changing life conditions. And I mean, we could go on and on about that but it really for me comes from and I don't know for Ado or for you where it comes from but it comes from Carl Sagan's first wife, Lynn Margolis. She was the most brilliant female scientist of our time sadly she's passed away but she wrote, you know, Carl Sagan wrote the cosmos and had the series, the cosmos. She wrote the microcosmos and kind of told us how our world works. And you know, I've got her books here too this is the microcosmos from Lynn Margolis and also the symbiotic planet and she did a movie, the symbiotic earth by Lynn Margolis and really a fabulous person but she really pushed back against this thing that there is no neo Darwinism there is no neoliberalism there are, there is no such thing as natural selection survival of the fittest only the strong survive severe competition it's the exact opposite our world thrives and flourishes right down from the beginnings of life on earth to today with cooperation, collaboration one organism's waste is another one's food or energy and this symbiotic relationship with everything in our world and that's really how not only how we thrive and flourish in our world and use the process of regeneration but also how we can go truly far at solving our global grand challenges instead of saying, oh, it's their fault and the others did it and it's not my responsibility it's kind of allows a different way to view and interact in the world. And so I love how you bring up the symbiosis and the symbiotic relationship because it's so vital. Was Lynn Margolis also an influence in your life or did it come out some other way for you guys? Yeah, you know, I think we leaned a lot on some of Lynn's work but also Fritov Capra, you know he speaks a lot about living systems, right? And this is from the macro so looking at how cellular, you know, biology works you know, all the way to the cosmos so it's similar, you know, to this macro-micro relationship but it is these patterns it is these connections all the way from the quantum to the macro about how living systems actually function around one another. So Lynn has some great work but also Fritov Capra has been a big influence in how we approach that. Yeah, I'm a graduate of the Capra courses from Fritov Capra and he's actually one of the co-authors in my book contributing author in my book. He actually got the symbiotic earth and the symbiosis from Lynn Margolis he actually knew her also and James Lovelock as well knew her and Lynn Margolis was a big fan and our friend of James Lovelock who did the Gaia theory basically and wrote the book Gaia and he's 101 years old now he just finished a new book called Nova Scene but yeah, I love Fritov Capra and actually went through his course the systems view of life and it's a fabulous course I would highly recommend it to anyone but that's a, I noticed I did see that just recently on Ada's profile that she had taken that course from him and becoming an alumni as well and he is a wise man beyond his years. Interesting story and I don't want to get too far off on a tangent he, his, one of his first books was The Tower of Physics and it was a book when I was just a little kid that was on my parents bookshelf that I looked at many times and I never read it at that time but I saw it on the shelf and the wisdom has been around for a long time for since I've been around and it wasn't until probably after I took his course and read his books that I went back and asked my parents and says why didn't you tell me about that book? Why didn't you tell me about him? I took his course, it was fabulous and I learned so many things if I'd had this wisdom back and my whole life could be different you know, my whole way of looking at the world could be different and it's this collective intelligence this collective learning that we get through that and that's really why I've got you here today is to talk about the World Education Foundation and many other beautiful things you're doing here is how we get education, how we learn how we grow this collective intelligence and learning into other dimensions and early thrive because from a Western world standpoint in some respects that the system's broken but it's a lot better than developing countries that really need it where you've been in those 21 countries and created projects and done different things around the education. How did that all come about and how does it tie to you reading this book from Paul Hawk and Natural Capitalism? Sure thing, you know, in a previous life I would like to call it my first professional career was American football and kind of my focus was having blinders on to really embody what it meant to be a professional athlete and through this kind of experience with myself I found out a lot about the world and it's kind of like Lynn's work it's kind of like Frieda Capra's work where you took myself as the micro and started to see how I could translate a lot of that work into the macro. So my first international trip was actually when I was at UCLA going in from my junior year to my senior year when I went to Nigeria, Legos and when I got off the plane I saw the largest sun that I had ever seen it was just this brilliant orange and the smell that was just so familiar to me and at that moment I saw and felt that the world was so large but at the same time very small and very connected and so through that experience of actually being in other places and sharing other spaces and seeing how other people operated I started to get that tingle and I think that's where it started to germinate that there is another side outside of just myself being a professional athlete or having that desire to be a professional athlete and I got drafted by Green Bay Packers played for the Oakland Raiders and then one of the teams that I ended up with was the Denver Broncos and while I was there I really got into a lot of Charlie Rose and listening to a lot of the interviews that he would have and then I came across Emery Loven and Emery Loven was talking about the in-game with the oil, big oil and things of that nature and I started kind of doing some research and one of the books that he co-authored was with Paul Hawkin and looking at natural capitalism this was one of the first books that really started to piece together some of the solutions that were needed in order to get over the hump of things that I was thinking about ever since I was liberal I was kind of a systems thinker in recognizing patterns, seeing in shapes, colors, sounds, symbols but being able to articulate all of those elements into a very digestible book on how to take steps forward it really started to fill some of the gaps for me so this book, Natural Capitalism was almost like my Bible over those years and it really encouraged me to make the transition from football to the world of traveling and connecting with people and developing projects in different countries because I knew it was possible and I knew that there were elements not just theoretical but that were actually factual to help individuals in places all over the world so that's really kind of what and how that inspired me That's so beautiful and I'm glad you told us that story and for those of us are listeners in Europe so played for the Denver Broncos and the Rocky Mountain Institute and Lovens is in Colorado Denver, Colorado, right? Yeah, it's in Denver, Colorado and so the book so that's where Lovens is and the Rocky Mountain Institute so there's a lot of ties and a lot of things came to place and then the blinders came off I actually took a course for OSHA Occupational Health and Safety Administration as an instructor trainer for health and safety and environment at the Rocky Mountain Institute which was really interesting and the other author is Hunter Lovens in the book, Natural Capitalism and she's going very strong so that journey and that you also you could in the words and what you read in that journey is you can see that it had a profound change and connected you to our earth and to look at the world in a different way It really, and I believe I know the answer because you're in California you've been to 81 countries you've got projects in 21 you've kind of traveled around obviously lived in different places as well for your football career and after that how do you feel about being a global citizen and what would you feel like if there was a world without nations and borders and divisions of humanity one from another? Do you think that would be a positive thing a negative thing or what are your general feelings about global citizenship? You know, I think global citizenship is necessary you know, I think the largest bit of learning that I've been able to glean was through travel right, you know, being in a tent you know, with an elder and sitting down having a cup of tea you know, in the middle of a Syrian refugee camp in Iraq or being in the middle of the jungle you know, in the DR Congo or talking to miners artisanal miners you know, in Kuwait where a lot of our cobalt comes from and I think through these experiences and through these conversations and through this human connection we start to really embody what it means to be human right, what it means to be here the miracles that it takes to have this experience the symbiotic relationship that you need to have in order to survive over a millennia of time you know, so when you travel I think it opens up your mind to what's possible right, so through this liminal space of what is possible you start to see that there's a lot of connectivity through the human aspect when we start to just relate right and we start to bring in that diversity and it really starts to challenge us so it is difficult it pushes us to our edges but that's where some of the deepest learning actually happens when we're pushed to our edges when someone views the world differently when we can have those conversations about how they view the world and then start to come to some type of co-relationship or co-reality that can actually co-emerge so I think, you know, boundaries-less borders is something that I'm heavy into but I think the diversity of the human experience is needed it's all throughout nature, it's natural and I think it all contributes to the larger canvas who we are and this experience here. You've crossed many different circles, many different groups and you speak about elders and the symbiosis, symbiotic earth as well there is some not dilemmas but are controversies but some confusion a little bit sometimes around indigenous elders or elders or indigenous peoples well, one of my good friends is the head of all indigenous people in the world Hindu, Umaru, Ibrahim, she's with the United Nations she's a sustainable development goal advocate and actually have an indigenous group in the United Nations that gives the voice and she meets with all these indigenous people around the world but if we crawled out of the primordial soup of this earth if we come from this earth as symbiotic, homo symbios so to say and we really all walked out of the plains of Savannah, the savannas and we're still indigenous but does that have any kind of divisiveness where you say, well, we're not respecting this indigenous wisdom, this knowledge aren't we indigenous as well, didn't we crawl out or was the distinguishment that we need to kind of understand or the separation or is there no separation? Are we all global citizens? Are we all on this spaceship earth and that we should be protecting those indigenous rights because we're part of that? What's your view and how do you see that? Yeah, I think it's all about the connections that we need and you talked about it, this primordial soup, right? So when you have the combination of fungi and algae, right? They have this symbiotic relationship that creates lichen, right? And I think through that aspect of, okay, I'll give you a little bit of sugar if you give me a little bit of carbon I'll give you a structure if you give me my material and I think that exchange and that kind of symbiotic relationship is apparent in all of the things, right? But then what happens is, is that we have this concept called the ego, right? And the myth of the ego and I think this myth of the ego really starts to create this bulwark between us and everything else, right? It individualizes ourselves in a way that we feel like we don't need things outside of ourselves where, you know, we look at Maslow it's all about I need food, I need shelter, I need education, I need these things where indigenous practices really lean on the relationality not only to themselves but to their community which results in kinship but then furthermore the symbiotic relationship with the earth, right? And I think when we start to get back to that indigenous way of thinking and relating to ourselves, our communities and the earth that's when it opens up a plethora of understanding that we are all the same we are all part of the same organism and we are a result of the technology of this billion and billion and billion, five billion years you know, old mechanism called the earth. And I think when we start to look at it like that some of the smaller, my new political things that we argue over that disconnect us, you know really start to fade away and be a little less relevant. Absolutely love how you clear that up when you say it so eloquently. You also have some ties to the Buckminster Fuller Institute Bucky Institute and really, you know you mentioned this on your website and I've heard you say it before Adda refers to it as well. You never change things by fighting the existing reality to change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. How are your ties to the Institute and why does that even come about? I mean, just a couple more caveats to that as well. So we've talked about Lynn Margolis who talked about Fritz Hof Capra the guy who termed the phrase spaceship earth was not Buckminster Fuller it was actually Kenneth Boulding and this is one of his books he wrote with his wife and then the second one to write the manual for spaceship earth was Buckminster Fuller who really set it in stone and laid it as a foundation that we're all on this spaceship earth but I just want to know kind of your ties why is it important and why do you look to that type of wisdom or that role model for things that you guys do? Yeah, you know, I think, you know I've been tracking Buckminster Fuller for a while and I just love the way that he actually set up this connected earth, right? This earth, this spaceship earth and that really resonated with me but, you know, when I met Atta, you know and we became partners, we created a small curated group and she was actually in the Buckminster Fuller program with the design science studio but through that we started to curate a group of creative to create a hyper realistic immersive experience to really ask the question, what kind of ancestor do I wanna be or what type of ancestor do I wanna be? And she submitted the, you know the first part of the trailer to the Buckminster Fuller design science studio in the first iteration, we began with a soundscape that really takes you through an experience from the I human to the we human, which I mentioned and I think through this journey we are approaching the dissolution of the ego and the metaverse really what we spoke about setting the containers and conditions to really leave old mindsets and programming really breathe into a new form and a new orientation of what is possible and then grow in a new kind of kinship to community and planet really flow with the symbiotic relationship that we've touched upon to everything around us and really ground as a mycelian network of moving together to create better futures. So through her participation and through, you know some of the work that we've been gleaming to push that project forward I was open to a lot of the individuals that were working in that project in that program and really leaning into some of the information that they were gleaming on and it's just a wonderful group of individuals that are doing some wonderful work and I'm just inspired in wherever I can help to kind of push that message forward I'm ready and available. That's so beautiful. And I'd really we talked about that as well on the podcast and she's I mean everybody we're referring a lot to that podcast so that probably got to go out and listen to both of them but more so to get out to your websites and see how they can be involved and look at the great tools and things that you're offering for humanity especially those in need who really want to make an impact and change and see what tools they need to become part of this symbiotic earth and to help with the regeneration and restoration of our world and of ourselves that's a lot of inner healing in order to reach that outer healing that kind of really brings me to a bigger kind of a question or feeling to see what you're sensing you move around in a lot of circles you speak at a lot of events and things and you talk about your foundation and your mission and what you're doing with ISM but for the past few years I personally have been feeling this dis-ease or this unrest and humanity all over the world everywhere I go that they're not totally satisfied with those civilization frameworks those structures that they're currently living in that they're just not working for them anymore and we've had more than 20 civilization frameworks that don't exist anymore they're not any more here on this earth you know, Greeks, the Romans, Incas, Aztecs, Mayas on and on and because of ecological or environmental collapse now I'm almost feeling the verge of another collapse or an extinction event and we've heard, as said, you know the six mass extinction we're in the Anthropocene I wanna get your feelings do you also feel that we're on the verge of some major unrest, a collapse, an extinction event and how is the current civilization framework that surrounds you working for you? Do you believe there might be a new one emerging or coming and what does that look like? Yeah, that's a great question you know, when I think about growth you know, I think about condensing and contracting right and I believe just as every living signal actually has to condense and then extract I think that's what our realities actually go through at the same time, right is that we have to restrict in order to expand and I think through that transformational aspect that's where the metamorphosis comes, right if you look at a butterfly, you know it goes from a caterpillar and it actually has to dissolve itself it actually has to die in a way in order to reconfigure itself to becoming a butterfly but once it emerges it's one of the most beautiful things that you know, creatures or insects that the planet has blessed us with to watch, right the variety of them but in order to get there they definitely have to dissolve and I think transitions are a great place for opportunity, right it almost kind of lets you revisit the past and really start to set new frameworks for what we're going through right now where we can take us into a better future and it's up to us as the human species to either get in line with that transformational shift that's happening because I can only imagine that the transformational shifts aren't just happening here on earth, right they're happening throughout the cosmos there's different information that's being downloaded in exchange throughout this larger system so it's really about us being in alignment with this larger transition rather than trying to fight it and or to create our own realities that aren't in alignment with this larger type of research and I think the research over the years that we've understood is really synthesizing the connections between colonialization, capitalism and climate change and I've really kind of coined this phrase as the ecological triptych and I think through this trick that we identify colonization as the ego, right it is the ego that says we can do whatever we want the world is ours we can take over we don't really have to be mindful about this symbiotic relationship and capitalism is the function that really drives this ego so if we even we look at it in computational terms it's almost like this reinforcement learning that hey you do this thing you extract, you get a reward hey you disconnect, you get a reward and I think over time that capitalism really starts to drive a wedge in between what is possible for this connection and I think through the result you get things like climate change right or at least the acceleration of climate change and I think when we start to understand this triptych we can start to piece like say hey you know what we may need to subside on the ego and really come up with new frameworks of capitalism or socialism or regenerative capitalism to really be mindful of this larger organism and our place in our orientation within it. Boy you've got all the answers I really love it thank you so much for sharing that do you believe that there is a moonshot an earth shot, a plan that will really align us and get us to where we need to be for resilient desirable futures for regenerative desirable futures? You know what I think it starts with communication I really think that it starts with this demystifying of the ego I think sometimes we get to you know in kind of this techno-centric world we are building things right outside of ourselves almost to worship them it's almost like a fetishism and it's been like that throughout time right if it's not the golden calf you know or if it's some type of religion or if it's not artificial intelligence we build these things outside of ourselves to worship them you know and thinking that they have all the answers when really sometimes we just have to look within right and I think you know people like David Bohm you know they really started to understand that there's this interconnectedness that goes beyond what we can see beyond our senses that we can really tap into if we just were to listen right if we were to open our senses and really kind of desubjugate ourselves to this myth of the ego then we can start to open up to what is possible in a real way so I think that this transformation starts with self right individual but I think as each individual becomes more sovereign within their own agency then they can start to build out into this collective kinship that really starts to branch out to this larger organism shift and I think that's some of the work that we're really doing with the co-labs is you know starting off with you know in Montana we're bringing these individuals together to share with one another but the whole idea of that is to take these decentralized locations and move them to be localized based in different places around North America and globally to where we can start to see what the solutions are on a local basis so we don't get into that you know old adage of colonialism where our ideas are the best ideas for the whole world we really start to look at a localized individualistic decentralized way of operating with our surroundings our people our culture and our environment Absolutely beautiful for the I don't know if we've touched enough upon it but for the World Education Foundation really in 2009 got a fabulous start you're in 21 different locations you're continually doing stuff what's the stance of that and what was the real reason for starting something that had to do with education and I guess also one other question is Sir Ken Robinson died in August 21st last year one of the great promoters of a different form of education for our world and gave a lot of TED Talks and did a lot of actions as well around that what does what you're doing around education look like and why did you start and also is it more in the direction that Ken was going with the actions he was doing as well feeling that our current educational systems around the world are pretty broken and need an upgrade to the modern day Indeed, yeah, you know, I think education is at the core of all learning and compassion, right so you have to be educated in order to really feel or to create empathy you have to be willing to take in something that you don't know it's a humility that's into education, right where you are continuously learning that you don't know something, right and you continue learning through pushing yourself to your edges and through the Wee Foundation you know, I thought that that was really an opportunity so after football I started traveling throughout Europe I had my mentor by the name of Dirk van Burkel who really took me under his wing and introduced me to a lot of different individuals in the academic space the regenerative technology space research and development, aviation space and what I found is that there are a lot of patterns between the technologies that we built and the communities that we actually live in and so when I was actually writing my thesis after I went back to Lynn Suping University to be part of this program called Adult Learning and Global Change I traveled throughout South America really with no agenda but really just to relate to the people that were there really understand the resiliency and what they thought about innovation and collaboration and all of these things that helped them to keep their communities together over millennials of time and through traveling through about seven different countries throughout South America I really, you know, the light went off I was like, what can I do to actually give back how can I actually be a vessel to take the knowledge and really transfer that knowledge into creating these, you know, divisions or the steps and being almost like the facilitator to this change and so what I saw is that there was a gap between academic knowledge, modern technology and local implementation, you know sometimes in the academic space we have all of the theories we have all of the dissertations we have all of the theses, you know but some of times that information stays in the ivory tower so how do we actually co-create with those knowledge centers to really start to mobilize that information to where it can be very valuable in places, you know around the world so that's what the World Education Foundation was really honing in on is bridging the gap between this academic knowledge modern technology and really looking at localized solutions and taking that and developing it in a customized way so it's beyond just numeracy and literacy it's really about development, you know what are the things that are already there and how do we actually transfer other things and mold other things into that to create this co-emergence of something new and so that's where the World Education Foundation actually spawned from that was our ethos and that's what really drove this educational aspect of that work That's amazing and was there any ties later to Ken Robinson and what he did or anything like that, no Yeah, there wasn't to any direct ties, you know to Ken's work I really respect Ken's work I mean, he was kind of the a great thinker around education but what Ken's work did it really helped to formulate some of the work that we did around the EDGE model so we created this EDGE model where E stood for education but instead of education it stood for de-schooling so really kind of getting those old pathways and really almost forgetting the things that we've been programmed to to come to see as reality or truth, right where do we start from, how do we orientate the D actually stood for devotion so this is more that ecological learning how do we devote ourselves to this larger organism and G was guidance, right so this was more of this relational learning where we can start to get this guidance from the ancestors that have come before us what is that information that's embedded what is the wisdom and the education that they went through and what are they transferring forward and then the last one is emergence, right and this is really that experiential learning where you actually learn by doing, right with the people that you're around who you're building these capacities with and through this EDGE model someone like Ken really saw that the education, the structures the more industrial type of education they are broken, right because everybody doesn't have access to the same resources but if you really start to look at pushing yourself to your edge wherever you're at there's always a learning opportunity so kind of reflexing off of some of the work that he's done and creating this EDGE model that kind of moved that forward and made it more localized and I think that's where some of Ken's work was really influential. I love that. Really wanted, you know and with Ada we spoke about this as well with Ada it's a cyborg shamanism with you as this more cyborg anthropology is it also cyborg shamanism and can you explain to us those of us who might not know what it is and maybe even tickle or hint you have an implant and what else is going on give us the whole download on what it is and what you've been working on and what does that truly mean and from what I understand and also when I introduced it in your biography it's not this disconnect of humanity of nature of environment it's actually using technology to connect you a little bit better in some respects but I want you to explain it if you don't mind. Yeah sure thing, you know so kind of looking at the patterns that I was recognizing when I was traveling I started to see that there was more things that were bringing us together than separating us right and I saw that in not only a human aspect but a technological aspect I saw you know this verge and this rise of this kind of co-mingling between humans and technology and as humans we've always been around technology fire is a form of technology right it's only through this scientific or this technological process where we create it into be technology shoes or technology shirts all different type of elements of our everyday lives or technology but what I started to see is that there was this exploration that I was interested in through the interconnections between humans living systems and technology so cyborg anthropology is really around this framing you know and our human relationships towards technology just and just to give a little bit background on the interdisciplinary nature there's this woman by the name of Donna Haraway and she wrote the first book in 1984 called a cyborg manifesto which was really the first wildly read academic text to explore the philosophical as well as the sociological ramifications of the cyborg right and she further described cyborg anthropology as the study of how humans define humaneness in relationship to machines as well as the study of science and technology as activities that can shape and be shaped by culture so you know that really fascinated me and it leaned upon a lot of what I was interested at the time of quantum physics right so you have individuals like Niels Bohr who was doing research and experiments the double slit experiment where you can see electron being weighed as well as a particle but what he didn't do was actually include himself inside of that at that project he was the observer but he wasn't part fully of that aspect and I think if we fast forward there's this woman by the name of Karen Barad who I got really, really fascinated by and she has this concept called new materialism whereby matter is seen as an active force not only sculpted by but also co-produced in conditioning and enabling social worlds and expressions and life and this experiences so if we look at this concept of new materialism is really about breaking down the boundaries and breaking down the borders that separate us so if we look at technology, we are integrated just as I'm communicating with you it's bits of information from me that I'm extracting through this technological device to get to you and then ultimately it'll be transformed getting out into your audience and whoever actually looks at those things and I think this relationship between technology and humans is really being accelerated in this space and time we're talking about biology we're talking about technology we're talking about systems change that is happening at a very accelerating pace so a lot of times the change is outpacing the research of how and what those boundaries list opportunities actually look like so for me when I went and got my RFID chip it really was kind of as a provocation to myself that there are no boundaries between us and it that there are no boundaries between how I relate to myself as well as in a technological age how I utilize technology and even through living systems so the concept of cyborg anthropology really breaks down those boundaries creates a discourse around what it means to be boundary list and then really starts to look at the ramifications as well as the consequences of this boundary list relationship and it gets back to that symbiotic relationship that we were speaking about earlier. Are there any specific things in your daily life or monthly life where you actually use the chip or in certain ways how and if you don't mind telling us a little bit more about that? Yeah, sure thing, no worries. So I got it back in 2017 and I was living in Norway at the time and so through that I actually got it on my birthday we actually called it a chip and dip party but that's another story. But through that concept, I started to utilize it as a entry point to... So for example, I could use it to get in my office, right? I could just use my hand, put it over the RFID reader and it would open up the door. I could use it in getting on the bus. I could use it to pay for certain things at certain places where my chip was actually identified. I actually could store my medical records on it but then also when I went to Singularity University I wrote a couple of programs on some Raspberry Pis where once I actually swiped my RFID chip over the IRFD reader, it could do different things like it had it on an actuator where we could move flags. It could turn on lights. So if I had a smart home, I could come home, I could just put it over the smart home and maybe if I programmed it for the time of day it would have a certain mood that I could program it to. So it's almost kind of like a key fob but it's an extension of my humanity. It's an extension of who I am. So that's another way that I'm looking at actually utilizing it. So yeah, I've been kind of searching and seeing how instead of looking always out, how do we look in? So I'm really looking for the biometric feedback type of RFIDs that can start to get a grand picture of what's going on in our bodies at any time. Are we low on a certain element in our body? Do we need different types of metabolistic exercise or things of that nature? How do we take these bioinformatics and really start to make actionable solutions around that? That is beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. Sometimes I might ask some personal questions but no, I don't wanna get too personal. No, that's what we're here for. Really the hardest question that I have for you today is the burning question, WTF. And most people think it's the swear word, it's not the swear word, even though we've probably all been frustrated and said that in the last 15 months. It's really what's the futures? And I kind of want your opinion, your vision, your view of what's the future, what's the futures? What do we have to look forward to? What's the roadmap, the plan? Just in your opinion, where are we going? So in my opinion, I believe in decentralization. I believe that we're moving to a world where sovereignty is gonna become much more important. I think decentralization of mind, body and spirit is going to really connect us in a way that we haven't been able to connect before. I think a lot of the aspects of where we're operating is gonna be localized, but through that localization we're gonna be able to exchange information across borders. I think we're going to a borderless community, you can already start to see that in some of the crypto space and I'm not talking about just Bitcoin or things of that nature, but the objective of say blockchain, to really start to have these decentralized aspects of proof of stake where we can start to understand the sovereignty. I think that our relationship with technology is going to continue to emerge. I think that we're going to have digital representation of self through artificial intelligence. That is, we're working on a concept with Arizona State University, right now digital trust office where they want to start to explore what is possible around utilizing AI and technologies to really hold the sovereignty of information, of students that are coming into the university. And I could see that, there's some type of AI that actually grows and explores with the individual throughout their life. And then instead of having all of your information out there in the world, there's bits and pieces where this artificial intelligence gives the only the relevant information to make a decision for whoever you're interacting with. So you're more sovereign, you have a lot more centralized type of behaviors, but then of course you have access to a larger part of the world. And I think that we're moving towards more of an indigeneity, right? I think we're starting to move back more to the relationship of what it means to be human in a way that is a relationship to our mother, which is the planet. If we talk about technology, we are a subgenre of this larger technology, first with the cosmos, then to our kind of biosphere and our organism, and then ultimately ourselves. And if we look at it as we are relating to this planet in a way, we have a really good opportunity to work with the earth, to tap into this knowledge. If you look at the earth, it's gone through billions and billions of years of iteration, right? So if you look at it from a technological aspect, it has the answers, we just need to look for them. And I hopefully, I hope that we can start having conversations again. I really hope that we can start to open up a world where there's not, we're not digging our heels just into our own ideas, right? And our own thoughts and our own beliefs that we really start to expand our minds to what's possible and really looking at these diverse opportunities to really reconnect with ourselves, the planet and our surroundings. So we kind of tickled upon it for a second, but you didn't explain it to us. And Urban Matrix One, Urban Space One, if I'm even getting those terms right, can you tell us a little bit more about those? Those are some newer projects you're working on that are coming out. And what are they? How are they? I've seen one of the presentations on Urban Matrix One, it looks fantastic. But can you give us a little deeper insight into that and how does it make our world better? How does it help us? Indeed. So Urban Matrix One is a project that was spawned out of my time at Singularity University. So I actually wrote a PhD proposal around cyborg anthropology and I was actually gonna pursue that route, but I got accepted into the Singularity University. So I moved from Norway back to Californians and Mountain View, and it was a project sponsored by NASA and Google. And through that aspect, it was to create a business around climate change. So what I kind of put my hat on to do is actually, how do we utilize technology in a way that we can tell new narratives, new stories, but really start to quantify the impact of what we were doing in humanity. So with that, I created Urban Matrix One, where we look at satellite technology information as well as hardware, as well as coupling that with unique data sets and starting to gather the end machine learning to gather the impact of economic, social, as well as environmental change, right? So it's no longer about kind of this, put your finger in the air and see where the wind is blowing to see what kind of impact it is. It's really about using satellite imagery, almost like an MRI system in order to see where the vulnerabilities are. And so what we're doing with that is we're really starting to categorize all of the different elements from Paul Hawking. Once again, the drawdown categories and seeing how we can create these buckets where we can utilize this technology to start to approach some of these larger type of global challenges. So when we think about refrigeration management, which is the number one drawdown, right? How do we monitor leaks? How do we measure F gases? How do we look at supply chain to get that best last mile of a refrigeration? When we look at wind turbines or reduced food waste, how do we start to utilize the satellite imagery to fill the gaps of these missing data layers in order to expand through that? And Space Matrix One is really focused on the hardware of these systems. So right now I'm working with a couple of individuals out of MIT, some systems engineer there, where we're starting to come up with new concepts of how to create constellations of satellites that utilize more robust ways of evaluating the Earth or Earth observation. So when we're looking at certain aspects of heat and carbon and even heat islands and infrastructure, how do we actually come up with the systems that can gather that in a real way that's ecologically friendly? So using laser technology to get some of these more robust readings down to the ground. How do we use the constellations in a new way where we can move them and then we can tether them to actually triangulate on certain areas that we can get 3D models out of? How do we use video recording from space to start to get different types of outcomes as well as research? So those are the two aspects of what we're doing with Urban Matrix One, which is more kind of the software side and then Space Matrix One, which is more the hardware side. This is almost similar to the burning question, but what does a world that works for everyone look like for you? You know, I think that that's a heavy question, you know? And that was actually one of our conversations is about balance, right? How do you balance 7.5 to 8 billion different realities into a collective reality, right? And I think, you know, through that, once again, it's about conversations. It's about relationality. It's about being vulnerable. It's about compassion and empathy. It's about setting up the structures to really understand that we are all human, right? And that we can find our humanity through our connectedness, not our divisiveness. And I think once we get, and we start to tap into that power, that we are all humans, that we all have a certain reality that we wanna manifest, but as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, we have the opportunity to live out that reality. And I think, you know, sometimes, you know, maybe technology could be a bulwark or, you know, putting your hands in the dirt and actually doing some gardening and really starting to get that connection back to the larger technology of the earth, right? And I think both angles, I think we're gonna see a bifurcation of individuals, right? We're gonna have some people that are gonna wanna be the first people on Mars, right? But we're gonna also have those individuals that are gonna wanna have their hands in the dirt and really start to kind of, you know, really appreciate this earth and this planet that we have here. And I think through those dichotomies, we can find some type of balance that really puts our humanity at the forefront. I think there's two big mirrors that we're up against right now that are really starting to reflect who we are as humanity. One of them is AI, right? And I think that we are the training data for what that looks like. You know, humans are the training data for this artificial intelligence. And I think the second thing is climate change. It's really gonna push us to our edges and it's gonna be something that is out of our control. I mean, we saw a glimpse of it with the pandemic, you know, but as the world starts shifting and you start to get these sea level rises and you start to get these natural disasters that are gonna continue to happen, we're gonna have to make a decision on what type of humans we wanna be if we wanna survive. So I don't know if I answered that question, you know, because I don't have the answers, but I think that, you know, that approach is something that we're gonna have to consider. Absolutely, you answered it. And you answered it right, so you win the prize. There is no right answer. And I ask everybody those questions and I'll tell you every answer is different and yours is beautiful and eloquent and it's one that can be applied. And it's really about we need to push everyone to ask themselves those questions. And those questions, the answers to those questions may change over time. The more the lights go on, the more we have that knowledge, that understanding, that collective consciousness, that collective intelligence, and we grow with, as part of this symbiotic earth, the biome of our earth connects with the biome of our body and we realize, boy, we've got some repair and some restoration and regeneration to do so that we can live different. When we start thinking about those questions, then we figure out ways to heal and fix and to repair and to do the things that we need to to live in a better future. Otherwise, it's just gonna go like the other 20 plus civilizations that are no longer here, we're gonna collapse. I have three last questions for you and they're for my guests, really, for my listeners of the podcast, those visitors who listened to us. If there was one message you could depart to my listeners as a sustainable takeaway that has the power to change her life, what would it be, your message? And even if it's two. That's a great question. Right. I think it's really about be kind to yourself and be kind to others. I think being kind to yourself allows you to be vulnerable and not be shameful of having this experience. I think sometimes when we're human, we get shameful that we have to die. And I think that sometimes we feel like we have to do all the things in this lifetime, that we have to accumulate all of the resources and build all of the things that we need to build in this time that we're here. But I think if we start to look at what it is to be human and to be connected, we don't need all of the things that we think we need to accumulate. And I think through that accumulation and really demystifying the ego of this kind of what we need to take over, we really start to see what we can actually be able to experience in a real way. And I think that starts with being kind to yourself, being kind to others and really integrating the aspects of humanity that would treat others like you treat yourself. I think that's the golden rule always, right? If that was your child, what would you do, right? And I think that leads into the question that is my driving question always. Every day that I wake up, I ask myself, what type of ancestor do I wanna be? And if I can answer that question in a way that it makes me proud, it makes me honorable and it really aligns with my values, then that's the type of ancestor I know I'm moving in the right direction. And I think that starts off with, if I was me, how would I wanna be treated? Where would I wanna treat someone else? And then through that aspect, what are the things that I can do to make sure that that person can feel the same way that I would wanna feel? So I think if we can get to a place of that, I think we have wonderful opportunities. There's more than enough abundance. The world has given us everything that we need and more a plethora of opportunities to really reconfigure. There's enough for everybody, you know? And I think sometimes our ideas that we need to take it all in the minimal time that we have here on this planet, it really creates this disconnect. But pass it forward, you know, look seven generations ahead, look seven generations behind and really kind of be honest with yourself where you are right now. And I think through that practice, you know, we start to unfold this co-emergence that's possible for the future. Thank you, that's absolutely beautiful. You've had these metamorphosis, the power, you know the power of the pivot, you've seen how powerful it is and your life has been a pivot. You've lived it and experienced it as someone who's gone through that, still going through it and other journeys and experiences. What should young innovators in your field be thinking about if they're looking for ways to make a real impact? Yeah, explore, be curious. Don't be afraid to push yourself to your edges as I spoke about earlier. And I think through this optimal curiosity, we start to find more about ourselves, right? We start to understand that there's more out there than what we've actually been programmed to believe in. Don't be afraid to push yourself to things that you don't understand. You know, never say that it isn't possible because in some reality, in some division, it may be. And in some time slot, it may be possible. So I think through this curiosity, we really push ourselves to think bigger outside of our boxes. Never be afraid to connect with someone that may not have the same upbringing or the same economic status or the same education as you because there's different types of education that may not have been commodified that can be very valuable to where you're going on your pathway. Really look at those opportunities as putting another tool in your tool shed that you may use down the road. And I think through that exploration and that curiosity, things start to unfold of what's possible. And then before you know it, you're thinking of a totally different way from a totally different systems point of view. And you can start to make those connections of what's possible. And one other thing is this aspect of, the design in which we are moving forward with. I really believe, and I talked to my good friend, Kate Stone about this, but designing friction back into our technologies, right? Where I think technologies are designed to remove the friction and make everything frictionless. And I think what we really want to do is how do we actually have those really, those push our edges to where we're creating this friction that pushes us to our edges, right? And friction makes every moment mindful and meaningful and memorable. And I think those are the things that we wanna take with us. So when we've had a full life, we wanna know where those moments and those mindfulness and that meaningfulness actually happens. So I think I would leave it with that. Last question is, what have you experienced or learned in your professional life journey so far that you would have loved to know from the start? The one thing that I would have loved to learn from the start, that we are limitless. Yeah, that we are limitless in the way that we connect, that we have the ability to connect to everything that we're made of, right? If we look at it from the cosmos, and I don't wanna get too ethereal on you guys, but from a spiritual aspect, I really feel like we're connected to everything, right? The Stardust that Carl Sagan talks about, the light that beams down on this earth, that photons actually carry information. There's information that is millions and billions of years away that reaches our planet that actually we absorb and we have access to. And I think if we understand that the earth has embodied the same elements that has created this large organism as well as the other cosmos that has been embodying in us, that makes us just as limitless as those spaces, right? That we are all connected in and that we can tap into that information. And through that information, we find out the information that helps us to live an abundant life. And I think that through my practice and my curiosity and exploration, I'm coming to that, but it's still a constant journey. It's still a constant metamorphosis. And I think if I'd have known that earlier, maybe I would have been able to articulate my mission and my path earlier, but I think everything happens in great timing and I'm very appreciative and grateful for my experiences. I needed all of them to be who I am. And I think through that practice, I'm gonna continue to just be mindful of how I show up for myself as well as others and understand that I'm limitless in that aspect. Marcus, thank you so much for letting us inside of your ideas. That's all the questions I have for you. And I really have had a beautiful time with you. Thank you for putting up with my questioning and showing us such a good time letting us really inside of your ideas. And unless there's something you didn't get a say or you really wanted to tell us, that's all I have. And I just really thank you and wish you well. Yeah, I just wanna say thank you for the work that you're doing, the dedication that you've put into creating a more abundant world. Thank you for curating our audience that was mindful of these things. You're really bridging the gap of what the future looks like. So I just wanna give you your kudos, your flowers for the work that you're doing. And I truly appreciate how you're curating your space. So thank you. Thank you so much. It's been a sheer pleasure. You have a wonderful day. Take care. You as well. Thank you. Thank you.