 then it's not an avenue then for me anyway, I feel like it's an avenue then to throw them. But you know what's interesting around the whole what Kat also had to do is there's the truth, there's what's legally proven to be true or not and then there's the court of public opinion. Are you a lawyer? Can we just go? No, I need to know because it's the second, what's going on? I told you, you were not arrested, you were you were reading up on, okay, all right, sorry carry on. In the court of public opinion, people still think that he did X or someone else did Y or whatever it might be, then this just has the same impact, whether or not it's the truth, it doesn't matter. So what he's doing by now throwing them under the bus is that in reality, he's now getting you to question their credibility. So then if they're no longer credible sources of information, then it makes it less likely that you believe the other things that they said in the first place. That's very true, very smart. It's good PR. Yeah, it is really good PR. How are you? I'm good, I'm good. Yeah, it's the new year, it feels like it's been a few months. January has already felt like it's been a few months. I generally feel like I'm in March, to be honest with you, like I just had to hit the ground running and just get stuff done. Yeah, you're always, did you even rest this? You know what I did? How many days? About a week. So yeah, five to seven days, I literally just slept in eight and that's it. Like I didn't really let myself do any work and it was amazing. This is exactly what I needed. But when you say not let yourself do any work, what were you doing? I think I was mostly watching Netflix, actually. And I legit do not have time for Netflix normally. Yeah, I think Netflix, YouTube, I probably did a little bit of work somewhere, but it was mostly... What did you watch? Because last time we spoke, even when we were doing that end of year wrap up games and stuff like that, we were mentioning things and you're like, I have no idea what, I don't know what you guys are talking about, I don't know what. So I'm actually a bit concerned about what you actually spend your time watching. So when you said you were resting, I was like, is this educational resting? Or is this actually like mindless things? It was mostly mindless, mostly mindless. What did you watch? One thing? I think I only did watch one thing, actually. It was a... Wait, you only watched one thing? Yeah. And you said, oh, I spent all my time watching Netflix with one thing. I can't tell you what else I did with my time, I legit don't remember at this point, but it was a show called The Blue-Wide Samurai. Hold on. I think... Is it on Netflix? It's on Netflix, yeah. I think I am watching... I'm not really watching somebody else's, what husband is watching, but I think I'm watching that at the moment. Oh, he's got good taste. Yeah, yeah, he does. He does. Yeah, but yeah, it's actually pretty good. If it's the same, is it the one where the woman is pretending to be a mat? Yeah, yeah. Okay. But you know spoilers. Was that a spoiler? No, it's not really. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah. That was a really good show. Okay, cool, cool, cool. Anything else? Do you have anything else? No, just friends, family, food, rest. That's it. I was quite intentional about making sure that I recovered because I pushed myself extremely hard last year, and I didn't have any type of break from, let's say, around June until December. So I was meant to go to Ghana, but I had to cancel that. You were going to go to Ghana? I was going to, yeah. You were going to do... I get really annoyed when Ghanians say dirty December because that's a Nigerian thing, but you were going to do dirty December. It was on my plans. I wanted to go, but then... You were going to Ghana? I've been before, you know. No, but... You know what I mean? What would you have been doing? Would you have been hitting the clubs? Another club? Another club? What happened in Ghana stays in Ghana, innit? No, it doesn't. We see it on everyone's social media, but that would have been nice. No, I would have loved to have gone, but I realised quite early on that it was unrealistic. Oh, that's a bit disappointing. I haven't gone on holiday for a very long time as well, so I'm hoping this year I can. I can. What are you thinking? I've been to Hong Kong before, and I want to go again. I've been waiting a while because there was a lot that has happened over the years with Hong Kong, and I was going to say protests and stuff, so it's been a bit like... I was thinking Hong Kong or Malaysia. I want to experience that side of the world, but yeah, it's me. I think I saw something on TikTok where somebody was like, they planned their goals in three-month periods, so for December, for January, they planned it in October, and they were leading up to it so that by January, it was done, not starting it in January. I was like, why have I never thought about that? I always think, okay, I don't have to think about that right now. It's something for the future, and then I get overwhelmed when the time comes, and I just don't do it. Don't do it at all, and I think that's the problem. If you kind of just make goals set and that's the part of your life, and then when you've completed one move on to the next, then it becomes easier. Or if you look at the goals that you didn't accomplish last year, and if they're still relevant, then you already have your goals for this year. Say that again. So if you set goals last year, and you didn't accomplish them, or at least some of them weren't accomplished, and those goals are still relevant for your life now, then just keep your goals, and you don't have to do the goals set and process again. Okay, I get what you mean. Are there any goals that you have that you've just been on rotation? Yeah, the big goal last year that I, so there are two goals that transferred from last year into this year for me, and in fact they're now my only two goals for the year, basically. One is to launch my course, and that is, it's evolved a lot more, it's going to be a lot bigger than what I was originally planning, and we'll talk about that eventually on the podcast, and people know about it. This is one of the, yeah, I'm only excited, something's coming guys. And the second was, is making the most of this podcast. So when it came to my goal of launch the podcast last year, I had a number of sub-goals underneath it. Most of those were ticked off, like build a great team, like have a good systems processes, that's half ticked off, but the thing that wasn't done as we've discussed before is we haven't been good at like doing getting clips out on the consistent basis. Oh my gosh, not even we haven't been, we've been horrific. Terrible, terrible, but you solved that right? We solved it, we have a social clips person, is that a job description? Let's go with that. But you know what, there's not been a role that has existed properly before, like even for finding people to do it, and you know they're like, okay we can do 20 clips for X amount, and it's just like, do you know what exactly you're saying you can do? And the magnitude of how much you have to produce, and so even like how they quote themselves, it's just we have had some extremes and there's some people that it's just like, you're not gonna, this is yeah, so yeah it's actually really exciting that we finally have somebody to do that. And that's the, obviously we had this conversation I think earlier this week, so one of the reasons it was so easy for me to say yes to, you know, let's make this investment was because it's one of my goals. So if I can take off one of my goals before the first two weeks of the year is done, then it's all good. Yeah, that makes sense. I don't think I have, I really like what you're saying about you've reduced it to two goals. I think sometimes I put too many, and that's probably why I don't like achieve even the ones that are the most important or I don't acknowledge which ones are the most important. I'm just trying to get all of them done and just end up not doing any of them. So this is probably the second year that I haven't actually properly set goals because of that, I think it's trauma there. But I've set like, okay, I've got this, these are the things that I'm working on and these are the things that are coming up, but just actual goals even within those things, I just haven't done that. Can you share any of those? The things I'm doing. The goals, anything. No, I mean, I don't. So I don't have goals, but I do, I have been trying to create or to build a production company for a while, a podcast production company and people always like, but you're already doing that. Why do you keep saying you're trying to, you produce podcasts already? I don't know what it is that I don't know what I need to, what I feel in my head that I need to get to, to be able to say that, oh, I have a production company. But yeah, so that's what I'm building at the moment. And I am trying to figure out the best way to juggle all the clients that I have. And I have some high, high, high, not high value, no, I've got Claude. Claude is a high value client that I have. And I, yeah, I very much, yeah, very, very much value and appreciate all that I can do with this podcast. It's our podcast, we said this. So yeah, so just making sure that I'm like building and building other people to support the other elements and the other podcast so that I can spend my time on the things that I really want to. So you mean building systems and processes? Oh my gosh, Claude, please free me. But yes, I have to build systems and processes. Yeah. It's almost as if you've been saying this the whole of my, the whole year, build the systems and process. We need to do systems and processes. I'm like, yeah, but this person is so great. Let's just think about how amazing they are. But can they, you know, deliver some structure and yeah. So yeah, I feel like you have been slightly mentoring me. No, you have been a mentor even without saying, and I've just been really enjoying it. So I've just been taking, I've thrown business ideas to you and you have helped me see the lights and focus on the right things. The way you squashed that, I said, I don't even remember what it was, but I just remember thinking, yeah, this, this is, this is not it. No, no. Because my whole, my whole thing for me is that I don't do things for, we all do things we want to, we want to be comfortable, but I don't, I don't lead with, oh, I just want to make money off this person. I actually want to make people money. And so I was trying to find a way, okay, I have really great clients. They have really great ideas. They have podcasts that can really touch people and, but they're not making money. Yeah. And I, and that's the thing in my head. I was just like, how can I help them make money? But it was the journey of that. But I will say, and I know this is going to weigh off topic for wherever you wanted to go this for this podcast. Where are we going? We actually said, I said, don't think about it. You know, he did, he did, he did. But your mentality towards setting up the business isn't like it's exactly it in terms of find a problem that's worth solving, that that's the first place to start, but then setting up a business that will make money for you is often best when you do something that's going to make other people money. So you got the first two things, right? The third thing of actually, what is the idea itself? That's where it was a little bit. Yeah. But you're on the right track, you're 100% on the right track. So I would encourage you to keep on trying. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll keep throwing the ideas over to you because you are one of the clients. So we've got to make you money. But yeah, so that's that's my, when you said what my goals are, what I've been focusing on. That's really it. No, I'm not going to lie. I don't actually have a goal. I just heard what you're working on. I told you, I told you I don't have, I have not set actual goals. Set one now then. Set one now. Oh, what's going on? Set a goal. Yeah. What do you actually want to achieve? So we know that you're working on the business, but what is the goal? What's the end result? What does success look like? I mean, it is a flourishing business, you know, that the top, I've got three, three main clients. And I want those, I want to be able to secure a deal for all three of those clients this year. No, that's, that's a goal. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well done. I support that goal as a client. Okay. Well, I'm glad you support the goal. Thank you. And also, so the listeners all that accountability or 100 of you. I'm joking. Wow. But yeah, thank you for helping me set a goal. Yeah, that was actually not as hard as I thought, but yeah, it has to be realistic. And I think that is realistic. So yeah, I think on the same line, one of the decisions that you had to make last year as well as I did is around jobs and like finding a job that works for you and that that can contribute and support the goals that you have. And I think it's an interesting one because I feel like our generation, we just are constantly looking for that job. And then we, so we don't stay at jobs very long. I don't know if that is exactly the right way about it. I guess it depends on what you're trying to accomplish. But if you're trying to maximize your income, then staying in a role for more than three years is a bad decision. Like you should be changing every two to three years to move yourself forward. And that even includes promotions, like promotions within the same company. Yes, you'll get an increase in income. But nine times out of 10, you'll get a much bigger increase by going somewhere else. It does depend on the organization because some companies have better cultures and processes around us. But for the most part, yeah, to, if you want to maximize your income, moving is the right thing to do. Okay, three years. Do you want to see even that feels long? It can be, it can, but it can be, but then it also depends on the level of the game that you're playing. So if you're talking like junior roles, then yeah, three years is a long time. You're talking mid-level, so right, but if you're talking about leadership, because what will also happen when recruiters look at your CV, they don't want to have you be a leader for a year and a half. So if you look like you don't have the ability to make a commitment to stay somewhere, then that becomes a X against your name as to why they would hire you in the first place. Do you know what, that is really, really hard in this culture because there are so many startups that, you know, you get a really great position there. And, but the business, the business model, it's just, it's just not going to work. It's not going to work. And so yeah, like you are only there for a short period of time, because it's just, yeah, it's not sustainable. So it's a bit unfortunate, but there's a lot of opportunities to get good money and have a really great position, but they are not great places to work. Yes, that is extremely true. And to be honest, if you do have very few places that are both that take all the boxes, good money, great culture and meaningful work, there's very few places that accomplish that. Okay, so in that sense, we're just going back to the whole job hopping. If you're saying if you are job hopping, if you're in a job less than a year or more than, sorry, a year and a half or in some, that's some degree, it will look bad to keep jumping around. If you want to be a leader. If you want to be a leader. Yeah. So if you're, if you're okay with entry and middle, then it's not so bad. But like think about it from your point of view. If you're, if you're like manager, boss, CEO, chief, whatever, like changed every year and a half, how would you feel? Yeah, well, when you put it like that, you know, like you need, they need stability at leadership level is that simple. So is that why they'll be keeping people even though they know that they're not that great as leaders and they just keep them there for a bit longer. One of the reasons, but in all honesty, it's actually not easy to find good people. Yeah, finding good people is definitely not easy. But even some in many cases, actually letting go of people at a certain level is also difficult because what tends to happen is that a, they tend to have good contracts and then B, they have the ability to hire good lawyers. So like it's actually very true. Like if you, if you let go of, if you, okay, I'm going to give us an anonymous story from a friend that I know. Yes, we get a story tonight. This friend was let go from their position in an unfair way and their company really did like treat them etc. But if you had heard that in most cases, then you would have been like, Oh, that really sucks. That was a bad experience. That's a shame. Like let's move on and move forward. But this friend now decided that you know what, I've got a little bit extra money. Let me actually talk to a lawyer and see what happened. So they went and spoke to a lawyer. They realized that the company, a lot of the stuff the company did was not only incorrect, but a lot of the threats that the legal department had given them of like, you have to do this or this can't be done and XYZ. But this lies because the reality is that the legal department will say things, knowing that most people will not push back because most people just assume that you're going to tell them the truth. And even if you don't, they don't have the resources to go and fight the case. This person did have said resources and they have now ended up with an extremely nice settlement as a consequence of doing so. So when you mess around with people that can afford like good lawyers, accountants etc. or whatever it might be, then it's a different story. Sure, that scenario. I'm trying to tread really carefully with how I answer this because LinkedIn exists. That's why I'm treading carefully. I can relate. I can relate. You know what? I'm going to say most people publicly can. I'm going to say the vast majority of people have had a really bad experience in their workplace and their mentality was I'm just glad I got out of there. Whereas when you once again give a little bit more resources behind you like, I'm glad I'm out of there and I'm going to make them suffer. Is there any like limit, you know, like with some crimes, there's a statute of limitation. Is there for work? I believe so, but I'm not a lawyer. Guys, if you have experience, find out because I agree. If you don't have the right resources, I am not saying when it happened or whatever, but in my case, I did have the right resources, but decided to still when it got to a point, not take it further because I just, I think I'm just, I just got too a bit too emotional about it. And I was like, oh, it's a company, but there's also people. And I just, I felt, I started to feel bad, but it was crazy how I started to feel bad for something that company did to me. But yeah, if it's not fair for it to, for them to make you feel like that, there's actually like a financial figure associated with something to do with like hurt your feelings being hurt or something like that. Like now I'm being deadly serious and it's not a small number. It's like, like 10, 15, 20 K that you can get for, I don't remember the technical term, but for the emotional distress they put you through. So get a good enough lawyer and get that money. Well, because again, extra 20 K is not. Oh, it's not a joke. I mean, in cosy lives, it's not a joke. Okay, you're giving us legal since when sir? What can you not do? Outside of what can you not do? I was speaking to you the other day about standing on business and you were like, what, what does that mean? So no, I know what stand on business means. It's all the other stuff you said about it about like Vaseline and Tim's and all that. I was like, what? I was like, what I meant by that was like standing, sorry, just that by itself is like what you saying standing on business is not to fight, but if you need to fight, get the Vaseline, get the Tim's. I still don't know. What do you mean? That's like an, it's like an American thing where, you know, when in the hood, when they're, when they're about to fight, Vaseline makes the punches just slide off your face. Well, why would you want the punches to slide off your face? It doesn't make any sense to me. Well, it doesn't have to actually be, you know, real punches, you know, it's, we could just be saying. No, I understand that. I do get that it's not necessary. We're literally talking that some street fight, but I'm saying that the concept of like, if I'm going to fight somebody, putting on Tim's is going to slow me down. And Vaseline is like, like you just said, is going to make the punches less effective. So that's good. No, you put the Vaseline on. So if somebody punches you, you put it on you. You take off the earrings, put the Vaseline on. And so if they punch you, you know, but it doesn't, it's not physical. I mean, they were, you know, in the films and all that. But yeah, standing on business is like this year, procrastination, your self, self worth being in the trash, all of that. So it's not, it's not running, second guessing yourself, sitting on ideas, all of that. We are standing on business 2024. That's what it means that you year. It sounds like bad friends, friends that you can't try all that out, staying on business. I hear it. It just sounds like another way of saying, be a practical dreamer, if you ask me. And I've been saying that since, you know, 2013. Well, yeah, be a practical dreamer that's standing on. Maybe we can merge. No. Yeah. That's if what's on the slogan. Standing on business. Dream nation stand on business. I feel that. Dream nation stand on business. I don't know if we, if we're allowed to use, I don't know who, who created that phrase, but yeah. I have a feeling that they haven't copyrighted it. You know a lot of people, how, but you, but you wouldn't count all of them as like codies, right? Oh, no, definitely not. Yeah. I've got a very small circle of people that I consider to be my friends. And they're the people that are, that have been there when like good and bad, because when you're up, like I've been up before, like a dream nation has been a really big brand in the past, like random people knew it, stopped me on the street being like, are you that person that's in that? Everybody wants to be your friend at that point. And I've also been down in terms of like disappeared, not there, not this and that, etc. And you can definitely see like how you get treated differently. So the people that I consider to be my friends are the ones that nothing changed. Like when, when I was, when I was having hard times, the first things anxious was this and that, the people that I'm calling up on the phone, the people that was spending time with the people that like, I know them, like deeply and they know me deeply. Everyone else is basically an associate, like not in a negative way, not in a negative way at all. I'm not in bad terms with like the vast majority of humanity. Why are you making faces? You know why? I'm on good terms with the vast majority of people and at some purpose, like I don't, I don't believe in having beef. I don't believe in negative relationships and all that stupidity. Like we're all trying to be somewhere, accomplish something, do something meaningful and it's far easier if we do that together than separately. But it doesn't mean that you're also someone that I can tell you're close, that I can be real with, vulnerable with on things of that nature. Yeah. I've really struggled with that. I have my close friends and people always, you know, talk about building your network and then the people around you and you know, and I have really amazing people around me and some of them are business minded and they think about all that stuff and they all have their strengths and they all are like superior in the, you know, different areas of life. But in terms of business, I know that I don't have as many friends that are like on that. It definitely helps having people around you that are like in the direction that you want to go. But you are right. There is a, there's also a balance to be struck with like, is this, this is just a business relationship. And if it is, that's okay as well. You can just have business relationships. Isn't that a bit like, but in my mind, a business relationship is really a partnership. Like we're going to do this project together and move forward. Whereas if you were talking about, so there, yeah, I'll say, I'll say this, I want to say who, but like there have been guests in this podcast where I'm just like, you know what, this person is really awesome and I need to spend way more time with them. I would generally like to be their friend. And they've also expressed the same back, but then as we know, building that friendship relationship as adults is not easy. Oh, it's not. It's not easy. You don't have the time and the capacity. And then also you've been burnt so much before from people that you're, you're very much like, there's only so much. You know, I won't lie. I don't think that it comes to friendship. I've, yeah, I think it hasn't worked out, but I don't think that being burnt side is something to stop me at least. Not with friendships anyway. I don't, I don't, I go, I don't, I have kept the same friends. So I haven't, if my friends have burnt me, we're friends still. And we've, we've been honest with each other and me forward and, but I know that there's some friendship there. I think there's one or two friendships where they showed me themselves in a way that I was like, yeah, it's actually okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I see them, we're in like the friendship, same friendship group. I see them and I'm just like, causal, but I would never. And that, I mean, that's wise. Yeah, that's wise. Yeah. I think, so my best friends, I've mentioned a few times, Bola, yeah, we've been friends since reception. Reception. Reception, yeah. It's either a reception or a year one, one of the two. My gosh. So, like, it's, so yeah, if you're talking about friends that you're cool with, I legit, like, he's been my ride or die for so long. If you know what I mean, like more than, that's not even half of my life, that's the vast majority of my life at this stage. And I'm very blessed that he also happens to be a very good entrepreneur. So yeah, like, I get, I would hate to think how I would have worked some stuff out business-wise if I didn't have him as a default person to always bounce stuff off. Or in many ways, like, there are many things that he completely sells at that I don't. And I think in many regards, we kind of, like, cover each other's weaknesses in terms of knowledge. Are you both in the same, like, industry or similar industries? So he runs Black Ballads. Okay, yeah. So yeah, there's a lot of links. But also, I think I've said this before, you might have forgotten, but we set up our first, like, six businesses together. So we've been in directly the same, not even industry company for many, many years. But yeah, and I think we also have, like, a really broad sense of business that we can go and start up companies in completely different fields anyway. So yeah. That makes sense. And now that I think about it, I do think I have a few friends that have, maybe they're interested in real estate or, like, gift bags and packaging. But it's just because there's no one in the space I'm in that that's why I'm needing that. But you know what's interesting? At least in my eyes now, most of business is pretty universal. Like, I feel like AC% maybe is like these principles and ideas apply no matter what industry you're talking about. And it's that last 20%, which is quite specialist to your industry. So if you can kind of begin to understand the foundations of what makes a good company, then you can probably still have those conversations with friends in completely different industries and still learn a lot from each other. That's true. Okay. All right, I'll have this conversation. Good. Oh, we have one random thing that I wanted to discuss with you today. It actually reminded me from Emmanuel's conversation that the conversation had with Emmanuel that somebody reached out to you and said something, and you had to go and speak to him about it because you wanted to, you know, you don't remember. I don't. I mean, you don't remember. Oh, of course. Okay, let me go back. There was an incident that I think something that Emmanuel may have posted online or something or an opinion and you and somebody spoke to you about it. Yeah, okay. And then you went to speak to him. Yeah, it was an event. It was an event. Okay, yeah. Then you went to speak to him about it. And it made me think about when someone, it reminds me of Cat Williams. And I know this sounds really random just to bring it together. But let me explain. Let me explain. Because recently Cat Williams went on to this podcast. Oh, gosh, I can't remember the name of the podcast. Does anybody here remember the name of the podcast? Okay. Recently he went on a podcast that a lot of the black men in black African, black American African American men, you know, have gone to speak on their, they are sportsmen, their comedians, their actors, etc. But a few of them went on and had recounted conversations or situations with Cat Williams. And Cat Williams was like, I have to come on the show because all of them were lying. And, you know, and he came to try and obviously clear his name. And then in the process came and did just scuttered. So yeah, he just, he was in the madness. But the reason why I made that connection, and I wanted to find out your view on it, was that he decided to come and correct people. So you correct, you had a conversation with Emmanuel and, you know, to discuss, you know, whatever the situation was. I don't know if he then publicly said, oh, apologized for whatever. But yeah, you, in a sense, sorted it out privately. But Cat said, I need the world to know that whatever you think of me is not true. And I wondered like for, in general, in business, when things go wrong, or when situations arise and then everyone thinks that has an opinion of you in some way, do you feel that you need to come out and say, this is wrong? Or do you, can you hold it and be like, oh, you know what, they can keep that opinion of me because I know the truth. Did that make sense? That made sense. And do you see how I, I tried. It's just a segue. Yeah, I tried, I tried. And I wanted to think that you like host a podcast or something. Oh no, you know, and I don't, you know, but. But yeah, this is a complicated question. And I could have been on multiple sides of this. And I've also been on the side of publicly, well, I didn't want to be public. You were humiliating them. No, I really was not humiliating. It was not humiliating. So what side were you on? It was, it's complicated. It's so complicated on my days. And I can't even go, even now I still can't go into details about things because it's, some of the stuff is quite sensitive. But I will say I wish I had spoke that value of the person that could have solved so many things. I thought I was doing the right thing at the time because yeah, so complicated. I can't even, there's so much I can't, I literally am not allowed to say. Like I'm not even like front in, I can't say. But I can say the lessons that I learned from that is I wish I had gone directly to the person that had concerns and had a conversation with them because I had access to do so. And at the time I decided to, I heard one part of the story or one side of the story and so to run with that. And I don't even the way that I ran with it. I wanted to, I was trying to still do it in a peaceful way. I was trying to keep it out of like public eye, et cetera. I was like, let's just, let's just arrange a time to talk about this. But it was so, it got so out of control. And then it did become something that could have potentially become damaging to said person that was being, I guess, targeted or focused on or however you want to describe it. And I had a conversation with him like some time later. And the one thing that he was really disappointed with was like, why didn't you just talk to me? And he was right. I didn't have an answer. I was just like, I was so caught up in thinking that I was doing the right thing that I didn't even stop to think, let me get all the sides of the story. Or the even better option, which I would probably opt for now, say, I am not involved. This literally does not involve me or concern me. Like I'm really sorry that this is the situation that you guys are in, but it's not mine and I don't need to be a part of it. So, yes, if I'm now, and it's probably why I handled things very differently with a manual, and even a manual situation was nothing like this whatsoever. It wasn't that, that deep to be fair. But yeah, like if I've got a relationship with you, I'll talk with you very directly around what is being said elsewhere. And that's my responsibility. I've told you, you now know, you can do whatever you want with that information when it comes to myself. I was going to say when it comes to you. I would prefer you come and talk to me. And I feel that we do deal with that. So I'm not, I'm not into the whole public trauma, beef, all that sort of stuff. Like people know who I am. Like it's not, that's not me. Like I'm not here to play games in that regard. So come and talk to me and we can discuss it. If I've made a mistake, I will apologise and I'll correct my behaviour. That's not an issue. I don't have pride and ego around that sort of stuff. I'm just trying to be better and I'm not perfect. That's fine. But if you're now going to be making a public spectacle of it, I think it depends. I think sometimes you do need to set the record straight because it can be actually damaging. So especially like someone in my situation, like I, my reputation is a part of my income. Like I'm not talking about like podcasts and all of that. Like I sit on the board for various organisations that are like really significant. And it's literally part of my every year. I've got to resign. I'm still fit to do this role. Like some of the roles that I get, like not even some, every one of the roles that I get, the recruiters will tell you, the next thing we're going to do is we're going to go look through your Twitter feed to make sure there's nothing there that is going to see. Seriously. No, seriously. Like every single one of the roles that I get. Like if you wonder why my tweets are always so chill. Appled in you. Like yeah, no. You can make it, you can do whatever you want. No, but deadly serious. Like they will, my reputation, the way I conduct myself, the way I hold myself in public is under scrutiny and my opportunities are like they're linked to that. So you're never going to catch me moving mad. Like it's just not going to happen. So if somebody's out there saying something that is painfully not true, then will I, will I stand on business about it? Oh, get the message. You know the honest truth is, I'm probably going to talk to a lawyer. And probably the next thing that will happen is you will get a letter through the mail. Like that's the realistic outcome of what has to happen because if you're like damaging my reputation, you're damaging my income. And if you damage my income, how am I going to pay you? It's true. Please think of me. But like I actually have genuine responsibilities are people that are counting on, counting on me and the things that I'm doing. So it's not, it's never just about me. It's not even just about my family. This is, there are multiple people around the world that are counting on me to do what I'm doing and do it well so that I can continue to support them so they can support their own goals, dreams and lives. That is so wild when you really think about when somebody gets accused of something. And you know, if you've done it, then yeah, rightly so. But when people are wrongfully accused of something. You know what, even when they're, even if it's somebody that has done it, all the people that work for them, that their livelihoods are attached, it's actually so, it's just so unfortunate. But yeah, I think if, I agree with you, just looking at what Kat did, I think initially it could be looked at like, yeah, I've come to tell people everything was wrong. But I don't know if he needed to, I guess it's because he's a comedian. I don't know if he needed to then throw them under the bus with it. I think you can definitely say, yeah, this is not true and make sure that that is clear. But then it's not an avenue then for me anyway, I feel like it's an avenue then to throw them. But you know what's interesting around the whole, what Kat also had to do is, there's the truth. There's what's legally proven to be true or not. And then there's the court of public opinion. Are you a lawyer? Can we just... No, I need to know because there's a second... What's going on? I told you, you were not arrested. You were reading up on... Okay, all right, sorry, carry on. Say the three again. I just was so confused. Like, how do you know this? There's the truth. Yes. There's what's legally true, isn't what's been proven in the court of law or not. It's not the same as the truth all the time. And then there's the court of public opinion. So it's like, he may have to do the legal side. I think for the things that I heard, none of it is that deep. So there's no need to take it legally in that regard. There's the truth, which we will never know. Only those that are involved in the situation will actually know what the truth is. But then there's the court of public opinion, which is still in many cases just as valuable as the other two. Because if in the court of public opinion, people still think that he did X or someone else did Y or whatever it might be, then this just has the same impact. Whether or not it's a truth, it doesn't matter. So what he's doing by now throwing them under the bus is that in reality, he's now getting you to question their credibility. So then if they're no longer credible sources of information, then it makes it less likely that you believe the other things that they said in the first place. That's very true. So. Very smart. Good PR. Yeah, it is really good PR. I definitely went to watch some of his shows on Netflix afterwards. So you even made money from it, directly. He did. I feel like it's fine. I mean, not because I don't want to say where I stand on it, but they were good shows. Yeah, no, you're right. You're right. And I think when the public opinion is for the right cause, we stand on that business. When it's like something that is, yeah, when it's not, and there's not enough information, and then we're going by a week, lives have been destroyed. So many. So it's quite difficult. It's tough. It's really, really, really tough. So yeah, like. Just a question on that, because sometimes I look and I reach out to some guests, and I know that sometimes the stories or the things that they have gone through is quite public. And I just want to hear from you. So I did just put you on the spot. What is your opinion on? Oh, wow. Yeah. What is your opinion on, like, no, no, not that's topic. I mean, just in general. I thought you were going to give me, like, ask some specific questions. I feel like, wow. Just based on that, like, if you are in their shoes and, you know, something that they have done or their business has done, was publicly out there, and they've got a lot of backlash from it, but you want to speak to them because it's ultimately, this platform is to educate and to help people learn how to be better entrepreneurs and to pursue their passions and their goals, you know, with fully equipped, you know. So they would be really amazing to talk to. Like, yeah, what, how do you, how would you approach it? As a host. As a host, yeah. As a host. I think, to me, first and foremost, like, I've been through enough in life and seen enough situations to know that, once again, what the public knows is probably not it. So that's only, like, probably a fraction of the story. And also, I've been in enough situations of responsibility, leadership, etc., where I also know what other people perceive things to be is also not it. And I've also been in a situation where I've been under people's leadership or been impacted, etc., where it's like, I know how strongly I feel about this, but then later on discover that I don't need a whole story. So my point of view, in general, and this is me towards now, at this age and stage of my life, I'm neutral. It's like, if it's not directly impacting me or the people around me, then it's like, I've got no massive reason to take a stance on something, unless I can clearly see that it's wrong. So there are certain situations that things have happened in the world right now that, in my opinion, is evidently wrong. And so that's a different matter. But what we're talking about on the scale of individual people, business, etc., sometimes things are wrong, sometimes they're not. Sometimes it's a bit of both, and sometimes it's not intentional. So I now know that all my stance, like I say, I'll be neutral. Let's find out what the truth is. Let's hear what your side of it is. But also, let's learn from this because we're going to make mistakes. If you're going into setting up a business, you're going to fail many, many, many times. Your odds of success are hella low. So it's not so much around, did you succeed? It's more around, did you learn? And did you do something differently tomorrow? And then with that, then hopefully, if you come and share on a platform like this, where you're going to get an understanding, like an unbiased approach towards it, from my viewpoint, and in many cases, probably an empathetic one, because I may have been in a version of your situation, then we can actually get to the point where we can discover the lessons and then somebody listening can go ahead and learn from that so that they don't make the same mistake. So now it's not just lessons for you and for the next thing that you do, but hopefully there could be thousands of other people that can learn from that and then go on to be better about whatever their dreams is, if it's business, if it's creativity, if it's their corporate career. So yeah, I think if there's any place, that's not like an advert for my podcast right now. I mean, it's an amazing advert. I mean, would you, I would do it. I'm sold. I'm sold. But if there was any place where you was going to have a difficult conversation, then I think this will be it. That's a really good answer. Thank you. Thank you for our catch up, our second catch up of the week. Yeah, it's been good. Has been. Cool. Thank you. Bye. Thank you for tuning in to today's episode. We release a new episode every Sunday, so make sure that you subscribe and follow us so that you never miss out. If you'd like some more inspiration of why you wait for the next new episode, then check out the recommendation above. Don't forget to follow us on social media and you can send us a question or a dilemma that you'd like us to answer on the podcast. This is Club Williams, you've been watching Behind The Dreams and we look forward to seeing you at the next Dream Nation event.