 Cooper Union, What's Happening with Human Rights Around the World on ThinkTech Live, Broadcasting from our downtown studio in Honolulu, Hawaii, and Moana, New York, KS. I'm your host, Joshua Cooper. And the title of today's episode is the IPCC and Hawaii, What We Face Now, Climate Change Already Apparent in the Pacific, and joining me today is Chip Fletcher, Chairperson of the Honolulu Climate Change Commission, and also as Climate Scientist at University of Hawaii. Chip, thank you so much for making time. Thank you, Josh. This is an important issue, and I appreciate you bringing attention to it. No, the IPCC Working Group 3 just released its report giving an updated global assessment of climate change and mitigation process and pledges. Chip, could you share some of your initial impressions of the content of that significant study? Yeah, so this latest IPCC report is the third. The first came out in August of last year, and it reported on new modeling of climate change and impacts. The second report came out in February of this year, and it focused exclusively on impacts and adaptation. And this third report was a focus on mitigation. And the big message from this report was that our emissions, our greenhouse gas emissions, need to peak no later than three years from now, 2025. And then engage in a precipitous decline, passing through 48 percent declining emissions at the end of this decade by 2030, and then essentially reaching zero emissions or net zero emissions by mid-century. And unfortunately, projections of continued use of fossil fuels and greenhouse gas emissions around the world are indicating that rather than peaking in 2025 and declining, we're looking at a seven to 15 percent increase in greenhouse gas emissions over the course of this entire decade. So while awareness of climate change is actually growing, we see rapidly deploying forms of renewable energy. The truth is that we are opening up the use of fossil fuels faster than we are deploying clean energy. So unfortunately, society is on completely the wrong trajectory here. Now, in those 17 chapters of the Working Group Three report, it does assess the mitigation of climate change. It examines the sources of global mission and explains developments in emission reduction and mitigation efforts, but it is quite clear. It's now or it's really not really or never for our planet going forward. Yeah, it's now or never for stopping warming at 1.5 degrees Celsius, which is the agreed to scientifically legitimate threshold below which we need to keep warming in order to maintain some semblance of a safe world. If we as appears to be the case, if we continue to increase our emissions over the course of the next several years, perhaps over the rest of this decade, we are going to be on a course to two degrees Celsius. The second report, which came out in February, tells us that not only will two degrees Celsius bring extreme weather events, deepening drought, expanding drought, expanding flooding and intense rainfall events, accelerated sea level rise and more powerful, more rapidly increasing hurricanes and other forms of storms, but it's also going to affect the natural world. And we will see a declining capacity of the ocean to absorb our carbon dioxide emissions, declining capacity of the terrestrial biome to continue to absorb our carbon dioxide emissions. And, you know, nature is our lifeboat. Nature is the source of our resources that we rely on that keep us alive. And we are at the same time that climate change is threatening natural resources. We are using natural resources in ways that are just not sustainable as an amazingly consumptive society. So there are there are multiple impacts that are taking place now. And the report number two and report number three for the first time in the IPCC series clearly links biodiversity loss with human impacts of climate change. And so now we're seeing that nature is being drawn into the equation here, and it's no longer just about socioeconomic impacts. It's it's about impacts to the natural world as well. No, and it reminds me of a talk I was just attending this morning. There's the UN Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues is getting ready to meet next week and we had Sami Reindeer herders talking really about that social contract between reindeer herders and the natural environment of one takes care of the other. And we've sort of had that contract broken. And the global commons, of course, now is at stake as we go forward if we're not able to reestablish that balance and recognize that relationship of reciprocity with nature that you raised earlier. That's exactly right. Societies that preceded Western modern socioeconomic methods of of manufacturing and resource exploitation knew how to live with nature in a way that was sustainable, that had a reciprocal relationship with nature. It wasn't just exploitative, it was regenerative. And this is part of the transformational nature of human society that needs to take place. We need to transform not only in the sources of our energy, but in our relationship to the land. And when I say land, I mean the air, the ocean and and the earth itself, the land. So agriculture, which is the largest single sector source for greenhouse gas emissions, agriculture has to fundamentally change. We need to get away from deep furrows, open soil agriculture and get into agriculture that doesn't plow the soil open, release the carbon to oxidize with the air and produce carbon dioxide. We need to use cover crops. We need to increase the amount of plant based food that is in our diet, getting away from meat, which has been shown again and again. The more meat you eat, the greater your chance of getting cancer. And we need to get away from these concentrated animal farming operations. These are these are especially dangerous for humanity. Concentrated animal farming operations create an environment where the natural selection pressures that keep the pathogenesis of viruses and bacteria suppressed are removed. In nature, a virus or a bacteria cannot continue if it is especially virulent, if it kills its host. And so, you know, we see that natural pressure to reduce the pathogenesis of viruses in nature, but in a concentrated animal feeding operation, you are pulling out the dead animals, chickens, turkeys, pigs, cattle and replacing them with living animals. So there is no pressure for a virus to become less dangerous. In fact, they become more deadly. So these are breeding grounds that skirt the laws of evolution or rather they create their own evolutionary system for a form of food that is actually not healthy for us. And we see widespread deforestation taking place largely in southern hemisphere tropical countries, which are still biodiverse. Deforestation involving clearing of forests, setting of fires, open soil agriculture to grow soy, soy to grow corn to feed these to feed these cattle. So the global food system is broken in many ways from a disease, medical climate change and resource intensive use point of view. And that's just one example of, you know, five or six general sectors of human endeavor that need to transform. No, I appreciate that and that's what's also so encouraging because you're connecting not just the science but thinking of climate justice in the entire planet because it will take a holistic perspective that's rooted in human rights, that's taking care of biodiversity, that's understanding which systems are broken and how to change them. And when you started talking about some of those points, I think the climate solutions we have at our fingertips today come from and belong to the multitudes of humanity that are doing those actions. That can actually, we still have the knowledge. We have farmers, we have indigenous knowledge holders. We have engineers, educators, foresters, healthcare workers, many more that understand that we have the solutions and what we're trying to look at is bringing those solutions to scale to then save humanity and more importantly, recognize the fragility of the earth we inhabit today. That's absolutely well, very well said. The use of resources is as dangerous a global crisis as climate change. In fact, we have five simultaneous overlapping global crises that make a planetary emergency. We have climate change, we have biodiversity loss. We've entered the era of pandemics, one reason being climate change and biodiversity loss, which has expanded vector zones, which has released pathogens. We have an era of human inequity where colonialism has taken on a new form in the shape of exploiting natural resources from still developing nations in order to feed the ravenous consumption of largely northern hemisphere developed nations. And we have pollution. We all know about plastic pollution, but there are more insidious forms of pollution as well. So taken all together, these five global crises constitute a planetary emergency and they're all coming together right now. This is the decade in which humanity is at an inflection point. Are we going to transform or are we going to sink under the weight of resource, loss, poison, disease, and unlivable climate that we have set loose across the planet? It's true. It's the time. It's really the decade of action. And we do have international instruments. We do have the Paris Agreement that the countries agree to, though when we're both there, most recently in Glasgow, we know the political leaders do not have the moral courage. We also have the sustainable development goals or the 2030 agenda. So these frameworks at least provide some ways of what we need to do and put all of the issues into one public policy to address the global comments. One thing we have to do is shift from terrifying to transforming. But I think you did offer some hope when you also made the connections because we can be cleaner and greener. And also one of the exciting points with where we're at today in this decade is it's affordable, healthier and renewable exists now. So it's it's almost making all the wrong decisions to harm, not only ourselves with our personal help on those five, but also the entire balance of livelihood and living on the planet that we call home. We are at the doorstep of either a miserable future or one that will be truly beautiful. We need to fall back in love with planet Earth. We need to embrace Indigenous values and we need to fall in love with each other. We can't we must resist this human urge to fight and instead realize that resilience is about unity and cohesiveness in our society. So by helping each other and by redefining what our future is going to look like, there is every reason to be confident and optimistic that we will create a planet that we will be proud to leave our children and grandchildren. And we are slowly making progress in that direction. Awareness is spreading. We are making progress. The problem is today's level of progress would have been great 20 years ago. We need to accelerate. The house is not only on fire, it has been burning and it's collapsing in around us. It's true and unfortunately the way people are sort of taking in the pace that we're pursuing to protect our planet is as if someone has a match. We are not thinking of it that it is at that point that you're saying in our house is on fire but the important point like you said is we can extinguish that flame with love as Malama Honua talked about to protect each other, to take care of each other and our planet and to reship the way that we see ourselves and also our island home. One of the ways that we can look at doing that or when I look at the IPC's latest report, it really does drill home harder than ever before that urgency to put the brakes on the climate change, to change course and the fact that humanity has the capacity to do so. And I guess the question we have to get everyone to ask is why aren't we? And that's not for you, the scientists, but for humanity to really ponder that and think about which direction we want to take as you're sharing. We can build that bridge, a beautiful place, and describe I remember 2020, 2021, 2022, and I remember the shift that we took and it is important, right? It's a harmful hegemony but the good news is it is being challenged by people with proximity to the problems facing our planet. This is one of the reasons why I'm deeply appreciative of living in Hawaii. There are a few places in the world that I think have the capacity to thrive even as we are failing to meet these challenges with the speed that is necessary. And I think Hawaii is one of these places. We have the cultural background to love the land, aloha aina, to love one another, aloha for not only our neighbors but our community at large and for visitors. And it is through realizing that loving our ecosystem and loving our community, we can promote innovation, rapid transformation in our energy systems. There are amazing opportunities in new technology which can provide Hawaii with the sustainability that we need as global trade begins to experience the shocks related to climate. I believe that by the time we get to mid-century, Hawaii is going to be increasingly cut off from this regular lifeline of container ships and airplanes. I think that we will still have tourism. There will still be societies, wealthy societies around the world, even as much of the world, three to four billion people are suffering and are displaced. Wealthy societies will still want to come to Hawaii. I think that we have the capacity to continue to embrace them. And this brings up the issue of aviation and jet fuel. So, you know, what does clean aviation look like? Eventually, we may have hydrogen or battery-powered aviation, but that's at least a decade away, maybe more. And in the meantime, we can make synthetic fuel from pulling carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere, combining it with green hydrogen, and you make a hydrocarbon that can make jet B. While you burn that fuel, the carbon goes back into the atmosphere, it doesn't lead to a permanent sequestration of carbon, but it does reduce our carbon footprint, and it prevents us from having to burn more fossil fuels. And it allows us to sever the lifeline from the containers, from the tankers that come in, that are now coming in from Alaska and elsewhere in the world, and used to come in from Russia and Libya. So, you know, that's just one example of where Hawaii can pivot to use technology, embrace technology, provided that we accelerate our solutions to these challenges that will come with becoming more and more isolated. I think isolation is a benefit. Nations that share borders are going to be under increased stress from climate migrants, and border areas are likely to become conflict zones. Hawaii, because of its isolation, I think has a unique geographic opportunity to thrive, to be a lifeboat society, to be a thriving, sustainable, and resilient community. So I think we have a lot going for us here. Yeah, it reminds me of just two events this week. One was this weekend at Kukukui watershed above Honolua Bay, and I was there with elected officials, visitors who are coming in Malihini, as well as Kama Aina and Kanaka Mali, who are really the stewards of that important space, really one of the largest untouched and spoiled spaces above Lahaina and above Honolua. And we did a tree planting of really planting canoes of important koa, but also mamake for health, and seeing everyone come together there, you could see that that is what people want to do. Even when tourists come, that's the experience they're desiring to have, to really get to know the place. And then, of course, even yesterday at SITAR, at the brand new SIFL Center at Shamanut, Hawaii being a hub, really a space not where people come now and see us as a tourism destination to play golf or forget their problems and escape from their stress of capitalism, but as a hub where they can come be inspired in our islands and return where they are with ideas for what can be done taking in a way that we're a hub. And you can see that too with Pacific biodiesel and the different examples you were sharing, that people are being innovative. So we could be this hub that people come to get inspired and then return, but more importantly, we keep taking action in our daily lives to empower our well-being and make sure that everyone is improving with their health by the actions that we're taking on a daily basis. That was really well said, Josh. This idea that we will save ourselves by showing the world how to do it, and if we can get the rest of the world to embrace some of these sustainable and resilient practices that will assist in reducing global greenhouse gas emissions, assist in changing the global food economy, and some of these other planetary crises that are taking place, I think that's a very legitimate thing. And casting tourism in the light of an instructive opportunity for the rest of the world to come and see what it means to thrive even under conditions of difficulty is a great way to look at it. Yeah, it might be when they arrive, even once they get here in the local flights, we have that technology, you're saying the flights between that are 20, 30 minutes, you could say this is the fuel that was used, it exists, and then encourage them to take actions, but also this is the food grown on the roof here of this hotel, the food grown at this farm, and really show them the living models in a way. One thing we do in my classes is look at a voluntary university review, a VUR, and then a voluntary local review and see the promising practice of what exists today with that, and then what are the small, simple steps we can take where we're failing to then scale up and have the youth be the solutionaries going forward. Yeah, you know, the second report that came out in February says that this model of adaptation and mitigation really is a false separation and that we need to bring these together under what's what they're terming climate resilient development. So that, for instance, if you're going to build a building, you not only make it adapted to perhaps hurricane storm surge or high winds or intense heat events or sea level rise, but you also make it negative in terms of greenhouse gas emissions, perhaps a rooftop garden or green walls, you build everything, including adaption, including mitigation into this building. And that is climate resilient development. And that applies across the spectrum of human activities, that same concept. And I think that defines this pivot point that we can take that will protect us in a dangerous future and also limit the continuous growth of that future. And that's a great point because I've been assisting Tuvalu at the Pacific Island Forum and also at the Climate Cops negotiations. And it's always been every adaptation action that is possible and every mitigation, but knowing that they're not creating the lion's share of the challenges that we're looking at. And so that's really important too, because that's that 1.5. If we do the 1.5, then the people of Tuvalu, Kiribati and Pacific Island nations who are already facing climate change and having to move villages and look at those issues will be at least hopefully spared of worse scenarios that you know could exist if we don't do that pivot as you described earlier. I am afraid that we may have already set in motion certain irreversible planetary systems. The West Antarctic ice sheet continues to send us bad news. We just saw in East Antarctica the very rapid collapse of a floating ice shelf in front of the Conger Glacier. We saw temperatures in East Antarctica that were a full 70 degrees above normal, unbelievable. We see slowing of the overturning current in the North Atlantic. We see continuous thawing of permafrost, coral reef systems unfortunately are continuing to suffer with these marine heat waves. Marine heat waves are growing in frequency and in extent. So we really do need to adapt to a dangerous world and you know all of that has happened with only about one degree Celsius of warming. Imagine what two will do and in fact we are on track to see three degrees Celsius of warming based on the policies that have been publicly announced in the world's nations. At three degrees Celsius of warming we are basically looking at one fifth of Earth's land surface in becoming unlivable, adopting or having the same characteristics as the deep Sahara desert has today. And that includes all of India, Southeast Asia, all across the Middle East and North Africa, Central America, and huge parts of South America. So we have said in motion, I'm very worried some irreversible effects that we need to we really need to prepare for. Absolutely. We have to ignite the imagination and the IPCC report isn't something that everyone loves to read and get their fresh copy. They're not like oh I can't wait. Just come out. It's not like Coachella but maybe literature and film has been able to change people's perspective either ministry for the future book by Kim Stanley Robinson or the most recent Don't Look Up film. Do you see any hope with that film getting people to shift their perspective and understanding that we can be more resilient going forward? Yeah that film had a big impact but unfortunately you know films come they peak and then they go and people we need another one to follow right on to that and then another after that. But I think it made a big impact. I think it proved the genre of climate change Hollywood blockbusters if you will. I'm waiting to see the next one. Yeah no we had last night for our 22nd annual ecological ethics activism justice. We showed that in politics and film class and then had the five actions people could take afterwards. So I agree it was stunning to see the scientists it was it was humorous but then it was also a very somber note where unlike most American films it always ends great for America. It was one with people in a small circle holding hands and seeing what matters most to them and as you pointed out earlier today I don't hope we see and begin to love one another and love our home and be able to make that pivot to protect our planet and have a future that all of our children will be able to thrive and live and rekindle that love for the most precious planet we have and our only one. We can do it. All right. That's the way we'll end it then. We will do it. We can do it. Thank you so much Chip and look forward to our next meeting. Mahalo. Thank you Josh take care. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.