 Good morning, everybody How many were out late at a party last night got home too late? Yeah, I noticed the The time spent late at parties It seems to indicate how far back in the audience you sit Yeah Okay, well, I'll take a more scientific poll at some future date I'm Jen Krieger and I am the chief agile architect at Red Hat in the product and technologies division I know many of you in the room. I don't know all of you. So hopefully You will have fun in this session this morning Also, we're competing with the session next door because they tried to get us to move So we have to laugh really loud. We have to clap really really loud and make it sound like we're having so much fun over here Make sure that I am able to switch slides here. How many of you know this guy anybody great great For those of you who have not watched the office. This is Michael Scott. He is the epitome of the world's best boss and The reason why I wanted to talk to to talk to him is because I feel like when we talk about output versus outcome We have to really understand why output is a focus for the people who manage us and Michael is a more I guess fuzzier or maybe more bunny like version of the autocratic manager That that we see on screen because it's funny and he's personable in in a terrible way But one of the most famous autocratic managers is this guy So as you I hope you all know who this guy is, right? I want one would hope for an audience of this type that everybody knows who Darth Vader is His his management style was definitely autocratic. So let's talk a little bit about autocratic management styles Obviously they tend to finger point a lot Apparently, but really what it is is they're responsible for all decision making and so at some point in the the management life cycle There was an idea that if somebody Was at the very top and could make the decisions for everybody else It would it would make things go faster and I'm going to talk about why that is and where it came from Autocratic management also means that if you're up here at the top You also are probably discouraging ideas feedback or input from a larger group of people because the idea is that you own That decision and therefore whatever you think is right is likely the right decision to make So group think is not necessarily a thing in this particular situation And because of the decision is being made at a very high level output is often very structured heavily managed and Incredibly closely scrutinized You all know this as command and control management This is kind of the the naughty words that we use to describe what it feels like now I'm going to take you a little bit back here and explain where it came from so This is the wonderful graphic from Wikipedia that I found that explains the industrial revolution. We don't necessarily need to worry about back here in the Neolithic age where we're working with you know stone bronze and iron tools But really what happened here in the first revolutions first revolutions We started working with automated tools that would help us do our jobs better But the jobs that we were doing were very repetitive very manual and and known We we knew that we had to pick up something and put it over here Or we had to turn a crank to get something to go so everybody knew what that job was it was predictable Moving into steam engines the same thing happened and primarily the way that people were motivated in this period of time Through the water wheel steam engine all the way into the third The third revel industrial revolution, which is right around here All of the all of the things that we were doing Were able to be documented or described in a certain way that made it very easy for people to understand what was expected of them enter in the age of the automobile and the aircraft and that was where a lot of Technology advancements started to occur where they were taking Certain things that they were doing and saying we could actually have a cost savings If we use a robot to move things around or if we used a computer to program the software to make certain adjustments as we were creating pieces of pieces of the actual automobile That that enhancement Started creating less a lesser need for people who were picking things up and moving them over Because instead of people picking things up and moving them over we now had automation doing that Into the information revolution or the digital revolution, which is where we are today This is a great graphic that I'd love to show you We now know that you can see down here the routine cognitive workers and manual workers and some of the non-routine manual workers You can see I think it's probably around 1885 or 1985 really that was a real long time ago 1985 is about where the Digital revolution is starting ish It might have been a little bit earlier or a little bit later But you can see the rise of the knowledge workers starting to happen there And if you didn't know you are all knowledge workers and knowledge workers are people who have to do Unpredictable things and somebody has a problem and needs a solution and From the problem to the solution. It may not be predictable. It may not be Automatable you have to do some thinking and that's why we call you knowledge workers now the problem with this scenario is that While this is happening and you can see it's not really a whole lot of time here We're talking maybe about 30 years at that point All the managers are still managing like they have a bunch of cognitive manual Predictable work and so they're taking those things that really worked to help people who were doing repetitive tasks So the value of somebody who's doing I'm going to create this one piece of a machine And I'm going to pass it down the line the value that they provide is output, right? How many cogs can you get through the machine and a day? For knowledge workers, it's not necessarily the cogs that you're passing through the machine That is the value but the managers is still in that space where they're understanding that output was what they were measuring before and unfortunately Well, well social psychology and organizational psychology knows that we have to change The research hasn't really had a whole lot of time to actually figure out what that means so back to this guy again, so We still have the situation today in the workplace a lot of the managers that I work with on a day-to-day basis really don't understand how to incentivize or or help folks like like you Learn or get better at what you're doing and so we're still really in a place where Unfortunately, we have a lot of command and control management The good news is is even in 2014 Forbes posted this really great article if you ever want to read it The link is in the slide deck Managers are realizing they do need to change so you can see on The left-hand side that is really the the management style of the past is very similar to some of the things that you would expect from Autocratic management or somebody saying do what I do what I tell you to do and do it now We're really kind of in in the present for for a lot of the managers certainly at Red Hat I see I see an evolution of where we were on the left before now We're kind of starting to take a firm step into the middle. It's not universal of course but we're starting to see that maybe instead of Using authority to motivate people. We're trying to coach or Move them in a certain direction by influence or by having a conversation with them instead of yelling at them to get something done in this space, we really want to focus on Improvement and so it becomes less of a job of a manager to focus on the output that the employee is producing But rather on their health and well-being as an individual so the conversation might look like So I have two of my associates in the room right now, so I'm going to pick on them so Pavel If I was in the autocratic management space, I might say to him Okay, so you were working with two scrum teams over the last You know here. Where are all the reports to show their velocity? I want to see the output of your work so I can really know that you are doing something It but but in reality what it looks like for I hope and he can he can tell you after after the session Whether I'm doing a good job or not what it might look like is Pavel What are your and what are your goals for the year? What would you like to achieve? Is there anything that you might want to learn or is there anything that is troubling you at work? That you're really not sure what to do about that we can help find Either a mentor or find some training or find something that will fill that gap that you have And so that is really where management is moving into the future And it's amusing to me that this that the future part of this the right-hand side Almost looks exactly like what I would expect a scrum master to be doing for a scrum team This is really where the future of management is going. It's somebody who Looks for the thing that is going to block that knowledge worker before it even happens. And so they're kind of they're laying the tracks I don't know if you've all seen the the video of the Train that's moving and the people are in the front of the train They're laying the tracks right before the train is going what what I'm Suggesting is the manager is kind of laying the tracks in front of the employee before they get there So that they're constantly moving in the in a direction without being Disrupted by things that might prevent them from being able to reach their overall potential So now we're in the age of technology. I'm excited to be in the age of technology I I feel like I've been in the age of technology since I was born and The interesting thing about the age of technology is everything that we do That looks repetitive can be automated and Business is moving faster and faster and faster and so now where we are is You know look 30 years ago or even look five years ago There really wasn't a huge reason why a manager would have to change their behavior Because quite frankly it was still possible to manage a team of people and to manage a business without changing The behavior of the management team it was quite possible to continue to have the same type of Earnings the same type of experience the same type of customer engagement that you might have had in previous You know years, but now we're in the situation where if you are into the fastest to market If you aren't the fastest to get your idea out the door You are now in a situation where your competitor can come in and sweep right into where you are and Essentially do what you were planning on doing and so it's not there. There's no crunching. There's no shouting. There's no There's no, you know looming over someone to get the output that you need It doesn't work and so management styles have been Pressured in the recent years to actually find what does work because the the shouting wasn't working And and unfortunately, they're now in a situation where fiscally speaking they they have no choice anymore They have to change Okay, so now now we know why we are in the situation where you might you might be at work and You might have a manager or you might have a leader who is interested in your output You understand where they are You understand that the progress and quite frankly the fact that there is there is really not much social science not much Research that shows them where what they should be doing and how they should be doing it and quite frankly if you want to learn How to get better as a manager? You're looking at like I was looking for classes in the United States Just as a curiosity I found some leadership classes And it's like ten thousand dollars for you to go for a week to learn how to be a better manager And so in some cases it can be quite outside the reach if you want to go in and improve the The classes that you could take are just so outrageous expensive that it's unlikely that you're going to be able to afford them And quite frankly knowing is half the battle because if you know why your manager might be asking for a particular thing Or you know where that style of management came from You might be able to then see it from their eyes and know how to actually combat or how to actually Push that type of request away. What what would you respond with that might help them to think about your work differently? I'm going to play a little bit of a game When we're talking about behaviors and so you can pull out your phones or your laptops or whatever you have that will Connect you to the internet because and I'm hoping this works. It was slow before So who makes the decisions this is the scenario we're talking about so a project you were working on keeps getting stalled Each time your team gets to a critical point you wait a few days until your manager has the time to decide the direction One time the team couldn't wait and made a decision. It was the wrong one Time money and effort was spent on something that got discarded your manager was upset And so let's do this It's got a load a little give me a sec. All right, so Using your when poll is active activate. Okay, if you can do me a favor and respond Doesn't show the actual there we go great And I'll leave it open for a little bit. It's interesting. It doesn't tell you what a b and c is in my when I made this slide a was Always b was sometimes and c was never Once you do the first one it will be easier every single time afterwards. Oh, I'd love to know Thank you, you know, I love the fact that some of you have not been in the situation before But this is about what I was I'm expecting to see and I am amused that it does not do a full screen Even though it's a full screen over here It's about what I expected And it and it's interesting that We see the polarity between the nose and the s's the the fact that the sometimes isn't as big as You know, it's not like a fully 33.33 percent of each pie But what this shows me to is that some of you have situations where Your management is still firmly in the autocratic way of working where they require all decisions to be passed through them Or they require that they are a touch point to prevent you from making a mistake And about 35% of you are saying that's not actually true You can move forward without having to wait for that for that question to be answered for that decision to be answered And you have potential buy-in from your manager that if you do make a mistake It's okay because we'll just recover from that a little bit of a tip to the reason why The reason why that scenario occurs and in fact all of these scenarios are from a previous job that I used to work at The reason why the manager would want to have that decision made in my particular instance Was because it would take us between I would say on a good on a good project nine months To on a bad project 18 months to actually get something to production And so that that period of time was so long that they wanted to prevent mistakes So they required the decisions to go through them because they didn't want us to get to 18 months and find out We had deployed something that no one could use which is a pretty usual thing But as we as we shorten the delivery time we're getting faster feedback Which means it's easier for managers to trust that if you do make a mistake It's easier to recover and it's not going to take 18 months to fix what it was that happened Okay, so the behavior change that that is functional and real in the space is called decentralized decision making It is really hard to change an organization to take that manager who makes all those decisions To a model in which anyone can make a decision within a certain guidance And so for individual contributors what this really looks like for you is listening and communicating with your management structure With the people who are defining what it is that you are supposed to be working on It might it might manifest as a community of people on an open source project that you're working on It might be your manager who is defining the technical direction for the team It may be a product manager or a product owner, but it's the when they're talking Don't just go the you know all they say is blah blah blah blah blah blah Go. Oh, what is it? You're talking about? Let me listen to understand and then ask questions if I don't That's what listening communicate means Consistent delivery helps right so if you have a manager who is Anxious about knowing what it is you're working on be if you say I will have that done by this day And you continue to fail to deliver it on that day over and over and over again That person is gonna be more likely to say well, okay It's clear that I can't trust you to do what you said you were going to do So I'm just gonna have to make all the decisions now consistent delivery also implies that you somehow can magically know How long something is going to take? Right, which is which is false and oftentimes severely untrue however Perhaps the listen and communicate part also wraps around that consistent delivery So if you know you're not going to deliver Or you know that you said the wrong thing like I said I would be done next week But it's I looked at the code or I opened up the document I had to write and I realized that was far more work than I would have ever Thought it to be don't just suffer in silence. You know, don't just say well, I'm working on that thing You know tomorrow I'll be working on that thing again You should say something that looks like well I'm working on that thing and I looked at the code and I realized that when I'm looking at this code There's all these other things that need changing in order to support this over here So it might take a little bit longer than I thought and if they say well why then you can show them Right, it's just about making sure to inform them of an updated in a piece of information that you have and then finally and this is the hardest one I find with engineers is the Understanding and connecting the why with what you're doing and so oftentimes we have some someone up here on high who's saying You know blotty lofty goal. This is the direction Please go in this direction and then you're down here fixing a bug and you're going That bug has nothing to do with that thing that they just talked about Therefore, I'm just gonna forget that they said anything because it's not really an input into what I'm doing And oftentimes teams have a really hard time connecting what they're doing up here But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try and it doesn't necessarily mean you'll be able to connect all the work You're doing but you might be able to say this is the ecosystem of all the things I have been working on how do I fit in that larger picture so understand and Try to connect the work you're doing and even better if you can understand it and let me let me turn this off like seriously Seriously, why is this on? Thank you If you can if you can finally understand to connect it then you could probably help the people around you by being able to Communicate it and so oftentimes business people speak in languages that you don't understand right they use words that make no sense That are probably buzzwords and you can look up them up on the internet and read the definition of what they are And still not understand what that means. I am in the same boat, okay? It's all the time so But if you can take if you finally get it and you can finally connect it with whatever is going up here and You you can communicate it in your own language to the person sitting next to you who may not get it Then you're helping that person also connect So level up and try that So now let's talk about the manager or the line manager role that middle manager the guy the pointy-hair boss. It's my favorite boss So obviously they also need to listen to me. So are there any managers in the room? I don't want to like out you Yeah, I know I see some of them, right? You're like don't ask me to raise my hand You also need to listen and communicate and so this is this is hard because of one very specific reason Oftentimes especially in your if you're in that position of just please get something done because you've not done anything and Somebody says well, I don't know why I'm working on this. You might go not again, right? But the reality is is that it's your job as a manager and I'm not making any eye contact with any of the managers now It's your job as a manager to make sure those people who work for you Understand what it is. They're trying to do and understand where the company is going and understand how that connects That that and actually if you stay for the next talk, we have Yon Selene He was going to talk about that stuff talk about connecting the why with the work Provide the what not how we often have especially in technology what winds up happening is our Software engineers take a career track, right? It could be up through You know, I am the most uber engineer that has ever lived on the planet career track or it might Go up the I will now go into management management and then manage other engineers and often times when they take the career path Into management they take all the things that they knew about doing technology with them Which then manifests as I will tell you how to write that code or I will tell you what Equipment to buy for your situation Meanwhile quite frankly, they are not coding. They're not keeping up with the new technologies They're not maybe they are but they may not be learning just like somebody who's in it is learning every day And so they might be meant they might be saying things that just don't make sense anymore, right? I've seen it happen not with the people in this room, but I've seen it happen So just just understand you're you're helping your team understand what it is they're trying to do not how they're trying to do it and Be clear about delegation don't hover So what I mean by this is that there are going to be certain decisions that you're going to be okay with the team making There's going to be certain decisions you're not okay with the team making a really basic example of this is You're probably going to be okay with the team making decisions about when they go to the bathroom, right? You do not want to say here's your hallway pass to go to the toilet That is not something that you're going to want to help them make a decision on But you may not be okay with them making a decision is certainly if you're in a support role To take PTO all at the same time leaving you the only person to answer You know the escalation that comes in at 3 a.m So that might be something that you choose not to allow the team to decide But if you're not clear about that and gosh if you're if you're asking for permission to go to the restroom I really want to have a conversation with you. But if you're not clear about the fact that you want to Talk to the team when a certain holidays coming up and organize Who's going to be on and who's not going to be in the office? Then then like what's going to happen is people are going to submit their PTO And then when you get you know a wall of PTO submitted and you have to say well Not everybody can take PTO then you're going to look like the jerk and so you want to actually be clear Hey in this particular situation before it happens before we have emotions before we've bought plane tickets before we've done all these things We need to have a conversation as a team So we understand who is out who is in and then decide together who you know just decide together And then finally be open and transparent one of the things that I learned very early on in my management career was that with the travel budget that my team has Hiding it from them looked bad And so they would say hey could I go or hey could I you know do this and then I would have to say yes Or no based on information that I had it was better for me to say hey look I We don't have the money. Here's the money that we have here's the thing you're asking Here's all the things that we planned on doing is that thing more important than any of the planned things and just show everybody What it is that we planned? Because then the changes the conversation for me making the decision with information in my head to me saying hey look at the information that y'all gave me and See what we plan for the year and then make a decision and if it's if it's more important than the other things Then let's talk about it as a team and figure out how we can make that other thing go away It's just it's easier to be open and transparent it really is and then of course the executive or leader My my lovely CEO cat Again listen and communicate. I don't think we have any executives in the room, right? Okay, but they might listen to the recording so I can't say anything bad Okay, also to provide the what not the how I Again if you follow the same logic That we were following the line manager It's oftentimes that your executives have a technical background And they're even further removed from the days that they coded something or they installed something And so they might say well, you know I used to code in cold wall back in the day and that sounds like a good programming language for you to use You know what I mean like that might be what you're hearing and so for executives We definitely want you to focus on the what absolutely not the how And again be clear in delegation the same thing applies and also be open and transparent That's gonna be harder to do as an executive There's gonna be absolutely decisions that they're not gonna be able to share with you a common and popular one would be mergers and acquisitions It is likely that they're not going to announce to the company We are planning on buying this thing because it is against the law in most countries And so I have noticed that engineers still have a hard time with that But that would be an example of something they wouldn't be able to share Okay, so another scenario. So who does the most work? This guy is drew drew toothpaste if you don't know who he is you should definitely follow him on the internet He's pretty funny Your manager pulls you aside and says you're having a good year But I ran some numbers and it looks like you're doing less than the rest of the team Let's talk about that in our next one-on-one Meanwhile, you go off and you're having a heart attack, right? Like you're sweating I and you're dreading that next one-on-one. How many have been there? I've been there, right? It's it's that next one-on-one where you're dreading all of you didn't raise your hand I love that you didn't raise your hand or you're just not being honest, right? Okay, so let's vote A is yes a B is sometimes. Oh, let me reset the polls. Sorry guys Clear results There we go. All right vote I love that you're saying no This this actually is a really good exercise for me because it's good to see How do I I have asked this question at previous conferences and in earlier years and I have seen a much different skewed Skewed result it's definitely gotten Farmer yeses than knows in the past So that's really good news for everybody. So we're we're moving away from an autocratic management style as shown by this poll We're not necessarily interested in focusing on Comparing you to others, which is good. We're not really interested in focusing on the Number of things you do compared to the number of things somebody else does which is good Okay, so evaluate employees against professional goals So it it you might feel like that that behavior change does not apply to you as an individual Individual contributor, but the reality is is that it does and the things that you can do Is is simple like so say I say to you. Hey, what are your professional goals? And you say and that's what you say, right? How many of you are gonna say that to me if I ask you what your professional goals are? Okay, a few of you. Yeah, it's okay. It's like I'm just coding for a live-in. That's my professional goal I'm living the dream right Well, you know in the dream I Would recommend finding a mentor maybe somebody who is further along in their career Who can talk to you about what living the dream looks like after they've been in the career for 20 years, right? Some folks really do get energy from writing code every day, and they really just want to write code Other folks actually do want to have progression. They want to learn new technologies They want to learn new things and they want to actually move forward in their career or figure out how to get on that new Hot technology instead of coding bugs and doing the same thing day after day Proactively to find your professional goal So don't wait for your manager to tell you what your professional goals are Have an opinion before you show up that is a really important thing because otherwise that manager is gonna go Well, I got an HR goal to meet I've got to actually have a professional goal for everybody who reports to me this person doesn't have a professional goal So here is your assignment now, and that may not look like what you like I've known people who have assigned a professional goal to engineers of Public speaking and I'm like that's not a good professional goal for an engineer That might be a good professional goal for you as a manager But maybe not necessarily a universal professional goal for somebody who who doesn't want to stand up in front of a Crowd of people and do professional speaking So you want to be having an opinion before somebody tells you what it is that you want to do And I swear this thing stop bringing up the It will go away and the last thing is if you were at a point where you actually feel comfortable And you know what your professional goals are Find somebody who was looking for a mentor and help them out because quite frankly There are a lot of people out there who are very junior who are looking for somebody who's a little bit senior who can help them Kind of guide through the miasma of all the tech that's out there Even Dan Walsh will tell me he cannot keep up And so if you are somebody who can keep up with all the new things that are coming out Then you have some sort of superpower that I don't have For line or mental managers. This is this is really you really need to listen and communicate here The last one was like listen communicate This one is really listen to what your employee is saying if they are saying to you I don't really have a professional goal. I just want to code then just let them code Right, they don't think it's okay. It's really okay Don't tell them what they want to do. That's not healthy Learn to ask what the employee wants don't tell them what they want I can't tell you how many times I've been in a conversation with a manager where they've said well I you know I had a conversation my employee the other day And they were telling me that they had two paths they could take and I just said this path looks better Go there, and I'm like, do you know what they want to do? Did you ask them why they were interested in this path? Why they might like what what did you ask them what the pros and cons are? Did you ask what they were thinking about and oftentimes it's shorthand management where we just say just go with the one that looks sexier or Or we'll have you know more people over there or we'll make better benefit for the company That's also shorthand management And then don't like this part of your job learn to love it or leave that job Because you are a people manager. You're not a technology manager. You are not a product manager You are a people manager, and there's a reason why we call you people managers And then finally for the executive or leader again working on listening and communicating I really want us to move away from annual performance reviews as an industry because they are yeah I mean seriously. Thank you and Here's the reason why because I really want us to evaluate team performance Not individual because most of you work on teams most of you work on a with a with some other person normally, right? And so if you are dependent on a team of people to get something done, why are we evaluating you individually? Really I don't know why we do that we we the industry I don't really know a whole lot of companies that allocate bonus based on a team situation So we tell people work as a team collaborate as a team get worked on as a team. Here's your bonus individual employee It creates a little bit of a weird situation, right? There's a dichotomy between the two things Okay, last scenario and we're gonna speed up here. So I am bored with my job Every day you come to work open your work queue You pick up an item at the top of the work queue and you work on that you get distracted and you work on something else Then you go back to the first thing you do the seven and eight hours straight and you go home You do this next day again. There's no one in sight and nothing will ever be done How's this happened to you in the past? Okay, everybody's really excited to answer this one. Let me clear the results first And I'm a pretty emotive speaker. So I was trying to talk in monotone. It doesn't work very well Okay. Yeah, sometimes we have more yeses and sometimes then we have no's Again, you know is our live in the dream You really live in the dream Well after after thank you after class we're going to find out where you're working so we can come work with you Okay, so we have a lot of yeses So the behavior change that you need to do here is finding the why the goal the objective So again the individual contributor This is going to be a repeat of what I said before you really do need to connect your work with the why You really need to understand what it is you're doing It may not be every piece of work that you're doing that is going to be able to be connected to a why But you really should try to connect something to why you are working for that company I think the reason why that bar keeps coming up. Oh, sorry limit your work in progress. So This is a really hard one for engineers Which we often like to have more than one thing going at a time But if you're doing more than one thing at a time and it feels a little bit more Herried where you're not able to spend or focus on that one over the thing over here and you save yourself Gosh, I really wish I had time to work on that thing over here But I'm too busy over here with all these other 15 things Maybe you should take a step back and say maybe I should like you don't have to do one thing at a time. I Give you permission to not do one thing at a time Even though I've made my my two employees in the room incredibly uncomfortable by saying that they're like What are you talking about Jen? Maybe maybe you do only two things maybe you do only three things and maybe you shut off all of your notifications for email chat and all those other things for a period of time and focus for just a little while and Then ask yourself what you what could you change to make this better? And so if you really are in a situation where you're doing the slug through the same thing every day And there's really no end in sight. You're creating counts. You're fixing the same bug over and over and over again What could you do better to change that? Is there some automation that you could be doing is there's some way that you could improve the situation that you're in? Maybe a co-worker has the same problem and you can work on it together So line or middle manager? I really want you to measure the throughput of the work not the individual and really what this means is if You watch a piece of work go through a system. So it's to do doing and done Every section of that system will have an overall average of how long it takes that to get through the system So instead of looking at every piece of work and knowing when it goes out the system You want to look at the high level like the overall of all the work And you'll what you'll find is there'll be a band in the middle that will show you what looks like normal And then there'll be outliers things that take far longer to fix and Things that take a lot of less time to fix and what you want to focus on are those outliers You want to look for the things that are stalling look for the things that are breaking look for the things that are not getting Done and find out why that is maybe there's missing equipment Maybe there's lack of skill set. Maybe people just don't know how to fix it Maybe the team is waiting on another team who is not answering questions And so you really want to focus on those outliers You want to ensure the team's form so contrary the opposite of the work on how many things you want to work on if You have a really important thing that needs doing put more than one person on it say this is a really important thing We need the entire team to rally around it Is there anything we can do together to get that done faster now the mythical man month states that it's probably not true that You'll be able to get through it faster But there might be some things that somebody can do that someone else can't while they're working on the code And then ensure the team understands what the priority is and why you've said it that way So maybe they can do the priority setting themselves Okay executives are leaders You really want well-defined product road maps so people understand where you're going and if you don't have them The organization is doing something wrong. You want outcome or cost creating customer value You that is what you want to insist on from your teams. They can I'm at a time But I'm gonna keep going. I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm bleeding into my Q&A now You really want to make sure that people understand that they can do some work that doesn't Benefit the customer, but you really want to focus on getting most of the work for customer value and Then finally and this is my level up except strategy pull requests If if you say this is the strategic direction of the company Maybe you want to listen when somebody says that doesn't really make a whole lot of sense because of these reasons They they may be saying something you already knew and you discarded But they might have an idea of something that you didn't see before so you probably should listen Okay, we're gonna go through this next session pretty quickly. And so the dangers of outcome or output over outcome How many of you remember quickster? anybody It's a Netflix who ha right Netflix in 2011 I'm gonna briefly tell you what happened announced that it was going to separate its streaming services from its DVD delivery service I'm not sure that it was here in the Czech Republic at the time But what they did was they said you're paying 799 a month for Netflix and you can either do DVD or streaming It's just one price then they announced you have to pay 799 for the DVDs in the mail or and 799 for the streaming and the reason why they did this is because they knew the future of their business was streaming And they needed to get rid of the physical DVDs. The problem was is that the customer base wasn't ready People in the US didn't have the internet. They didn't they couldn't pay for the internet It was too expensive at that time in 2011. So streaming really wasn't a thing just yet It was a very small group of very small part of their user base was interested in streaming And it sparked It sparked what what you can go back and look at the dear Netflix Twitter trend It was like the number one Twitter trend for many many months So here here's the thing in October 2011 It was the first quarter in which they announced earnings after the announcement of quickster They lost 30% of their stock price and 800,000 subscribers So it had huge impact and the reason this happened is because they didn't actually ask their customers what they wanted And there's actually an anecdote online in which the CEO Talks about the fact that he had a conversation with a friend and explain what they were going to be doing before they did it And the guy said that's the stupidest thing I ever heard you shouldn't do that and they did it anyway Now the funny thing about this is in 2012 right after they announced the earnings netflix at choir dvd.com and In 2016 they slowly without telling anyone pushed their DVD subscribers over to dvd.com And now they're talking about retiring it completely and so if they had just waited a little while They could have done this in a way that would have been acceptable to the years of base and they wouldn't have lost all that money Okay, another example a blockbuster This would be an example. Oh, sorry that you got a sneak preview of my next example This is a sneak pre or this is a this is a company that just didn't pay attention that what was going on So in comparison that was going on in Netflix they were trying to push us to too fast Blockbuster was to completely ignoring what people actually wanted. They've got two retail stores open in the US now And I think they're gonna close one this year Who wants to eat watermelon cookies? Yeah So like if they had if they had even asked a customer focus group like if they had made these cookies and gave them They would have known that this wouldn't have worked This is another one like they could have asked their kids Like this is disgusting. Could you imagine being on the french fry line outside and getting purple ketchup? I don't want purple ketchup Like I don't think kids want purple ketchup either And then finally this is the the worst one and I'm gonna be really careful here So these were a product and I hear some because we know in the US This is a product that lays put out in the US that used a fat called Alestra and they they didn't do product testing They didn't give them to humans to say here have this chip and let me know what happens because if they had Done that they would have known that about I think it was like about 70% of people who ate this Alestra had Politely put gastrointestinal distress as a result of eating it And so this is an example of I didn't ask my customers. They probably actually did ask their customers They probably said what would you like a fat free potato chip sounds great? But they did do quality testing so this is an example of what happens when you don't ship quality product Okay, so if outcome equals goal then what? And so understand and connect the why with your work Deliver the outcome with the least amount of outputs. That's a really important key to this You don't want to charm you don't want to say The customer needs this one little thing So I'm going to give you a million lines of code to do this thing that is not a good idea and that will give you complete success Okay, so thank you, but one last example of a product failure So thank you very much any questions Yeah, it's a universal Yeah, it's universal when you're talking about limits to work in progress you probably should have the conversation up and down The other thing with work at work in progress limits Sometimes it's not possible to limit work in progress because you have an executive shouting that his laptop is broken so oftentimes what teams will do is have a I can only have one Huge fire going on at a time So I will only take in that one at a time or maybe two It's up to what the team can really accommodate, but it's a conversation that you need to have up and down the organization So they understand that It's not it's not helpful or healthy to work a little bit of the time in all the things Because you're not actually delivering anything at that point. Oh, I'm sorry. The question was should work in progress be Something that is limited up and down the chain So individual contributors managers and also executives should all be included in the conversation and should all respect the whip limit if you would Any other questions, right? Thanks everybody for coming