 This is JSA TV and JSA Podcasts, the newsroom for telecom and data center professionals. I'm Carl Sketchley, and on behalf of the team here at JSA, thank you for joining us as we continue to navigate our way through COVID-19 and its effects on our industry. These JSA virtual roundtables serve as a timely platform for us to seek advice and information from top industry thought leaders. For the next 45 minutes, we'll face the latest challenges of today's reality together as one network infrastructure community. Also, as the sun shines hopefully at your door today, we have provided lunch or if you chose a gift card to a local restaurant for the first 100 registrants. So for those of you who received, please enjoy your JSA lunch while we get started. And a quick reminder, this is a roundtable. We do want to hear from you and answer your questions. So please go ahead and type your questions into our question box. Time permitting, we will answer them here. But in the last 15 minutes of the hour, we will take our conversation over to LinkedIn for a chat with our speakers. Either search for hashtag JSA virtual roundtables and our feed will come up or click on the direct link we will share in our chat box shortly. Once there, we will be reviewing the questions we don't get a chance to cover in the next 45 minutes. And you can post your own questions and thoughts to our panelists there as well. This is JSA's sixth roundtable in a series of necessary conversations right now on redefining communications in the wake of COVID-19. Our next one up will examine how we should be safeguarding our network infrastructure in today's brave new world. That roundtable is July 30th at 1 p.m. Eastern. Check it out on jsa.net and register. Now let's get started. Today's topic, three defining communications in the wake of COVID-19. For today's chat, we have over 240 registrants joining us. Thank you for your continued support of this series. And thank you to our panelists for dedicating their time for us today to help us introduce them and to guest moderate, please welcome Rosemary Cochran, principal and co-founder of Vertical Systems Group. Rosemary, thank you for joining us today. The floor is yours. Great. Thank you, Carl. And welcome to all of you joining us today to hear from this exceptional roundtable of industry experts. We're going to be sharing their perspectives on network communications in these really unprecedented times. Three kind of big picture points to start from my perspective and also these are things that we've shared together with the panelists. First, communications has never been more essential through all the daily disruptions that we've been enduring caused by COVID-19 and the, you know, half dimension as well the suffering from the tragic loss of loved ones through this. One of the most critical lifelines that we've had has been the ability to stay connected to one another across the world and really virtually on demand. Second, making this happen is largely, in my estimation, underappreciated. In other words, I'm sure those of you in the communications industry have had friends and family think that it all just works and it should work and there shouldn't be any interruption and it should always be as fast as they want. But, you know, consider how the resiliency of the underlying global communications infrastructure, including terrestrial and sub-city, has been and continues to be stress tested by what's going on. We've had unexpected surges in demand, abrupt shifts in traffic patterns and usage. We've had cyber attacks, there's a lot going on with staffing and supply chain issues and more. But through that all, you know, what is the reality is with the communications infrastructure, which by the way enables all of those cloud apps that everybody uses and wouldn't work without it, has been working remarkably well. Third, the new challenges are going to keep coming and the wake of COVID-19 is surfacing and we need to consider what we're calling the new realities ahead. So, let's dive in and I'm very pleased to introduce you to our speakers and those are Gil Santolise from NJFX, Hunter Nubi and Nubi Ventures, Joe Skadarigia from Winstream, Nigel Bailiff at Aquacoms and Octavia Hernandez at Gold Data. Notably, I'd like to just recognize three of these gentlemen, Hunter, Joe and Nigel. We're just named to capacity media's Power 100 list of the most influential individuals in the wholesale carrier community. So, congratulations to you for that. So, next, I'd like to introduce you to each of the speakers and they'll tell you a little bit about their role in their company. And we can start with the top with Nigel Bailiff. Hi, thanks very much, Rosemary. Hello, everybody. Nigel Bailiff, the CEO of Aquacoms. Aquacoms is an Irish based infrastructure developer of submarine cables. We focus totally on the beach to the beach or certainly the first building to the first building. We work in collaboration with a whole range of partners on the fixed terrestrial network side, and we are a carrier neutral, but carrier's carrier player. I've spent about 32 years in the submarine cable industry through various guises, starting with cable and wireless back in the 80s. For me, it's something which connecting countries together enables all of the other layers of communications to work from the applications all the way through to social media. I think it's fascinating to be able to work with parties like members of the panel across the oceans to make sure we're delivering these vital services for everybody throughout my entire life. Communicating with home, with a young family has been facilitated by all of the work that goes on in our international communications sector. Thank you, Hunter. Hunter is the owner and entrepreneur. I should say that Nigel was the CEO of Aquacoms. I think I neglected to say to actually introduce you officially. So, I apologize for that. Hunter is the owner and entrepreneur for VUB Ventures. Okay, thank you. Thanks all fellow panelists. And JSA, shout out to Jamie and Cable Capri. My name is Hunter Newby. I own Newby Ventures. Newby Ventures is a holding company I formed a few years ago to hold various interests and different entities that I've founded, invested in, partnered in. And I've started a lot of companies in the space, network, neutral infrastructure, businesses, like you said, that do so. I'm part of the field and NJFX. I'm happy to have Nigel and Aquacoms as a customer in two facilities. And look forward to this panel today. Thank you. All right. Thank you. And this is Octavio Hernandez, who is the Director of Global Business Development for Gold Data. Octavio? There you go. Thank you very much. Hi, all. Yes, my name is Octavio Hernandez. I'm the Global Business Director at Gold Data. Basically, what we do is we are a wholesale company. We have presence in 37 countries now. We do connectivity from and to the United States, covering Mexico, Central America, and South America. Basically, we've been doing business for the last 20 years. And I've been involved in telecommunications for the last 26. So it's been a crazy journey. It's been an amazing race of the come. So this round table is going to be super interesting. Great. Thank you. And this is Joe Scudereglia from Windstream. He is Executive Vice President of Wholesale Solutions. Thanks, Rosemary. Thanks for having me and very happy to be part of the panel today. So as you mentioned, I'm the Executive Vice President at Windstream Wholesale. For those that don't know, Windstream is a Fortune 500 company. We primarily provide services throughout the US. We have three business groups, three business units, consumer, enterprise, and wholesale. My group primarily runs the Wholesale Business Unit, which consists of sales, marketing, which includes the product, business development, and also expanding of the network. Thank you. And Gil Santillis at NJFX is the CEO and founder. Great. Thank you, Rosemary. So yes, I'm the founder and CEO of NJFX. And NJFX is North America's first carrier neutral cable landing station campus. That's a mouthful because it is. It's really two buildings in a moment with additional property that can host upsea cables. Today at NJFX campus, we have four subsea cables, one currently going live soon. But we have one going to South America, connecting New Jersey to Brazil. That's the São Paulo and Paraguay. Two cables that were put back in the ocean back in the early 2000s. They taught our owns that connect New Jersey with the UK. And then we have the Hofru and EC2 cable that Nigel is the landing party for, that connects New Jersey to Denmark, Ireland, and Norway. What we did basically is create a community, a community of interests of subsea providers that could have a home to work within, to monetize their assets and have an on and off ramp interconnecting North America to their countries. And when we collected in New Jersey, it's 25 plus carriers that now are best of breed at doing what they do to connect the subsea capacity across North America and beyond. So in essence, it's a new generation hub. It's a real true application of how you could interconnect networks effectively with the best architecture and cost effectively, especially in this market. Great. Excellent. Well, certainly can say this is the best group to talk about what's going on in communications infrastructure. And we're going to get into some of the new reality questions. But to start, there's a section that has come up because of the two conversations that we've had about things that are being driven by COVID-19 and across a lot of different areas, including sports, medical, service delivery. So I'm going to take a couple of minutes and talk through those. I'm starting with Octavio, who has an interesting story about sports. And I've been laughing at me, but we're coming from Boston. We're very sports deprived here. So we'd love to hear the sports stories, although this one is not as happy. Thanks, Octavio. Well, we as a telecom company, we have connectivity via our capacity that we have over 11 submarine cables. And that gives us the ability to connect all these venues around Latin America. It was very interesting because a market that was as connected as all these big companies and all these big broadcasters would like to be via fiber. Now that now they were connected. So we were doing very well. All the games were having a great moment because people would be experiencing a high definition delivery just in time, really seconds of delay. So basically a live event and with the COVID-19 within a weekend, all the soccer games, rugby, cricket, WTA, basketball, football, everything got down. So it was a big announcement that we within three days we caused and caused and caused, canceling all these events. And you could imagine having all these staff connectivity cables, switches, everything deployed to make the games happen. And within three days, everything was shut down. So quite an event. We are still trying to to really understand what happened and how this, not only our industry was affected, but all the change within the business. Because this affects everybody involved. Right. Right. Up to the networks that are distributing the feeds, right? Exactly. You know, the network agreements, the cross connections, the capacity agreed to the owners of the stadiums, the players, the coaches, and all the industry teams around a sport game event, a live event. We used to have 60 to 150 games per month. Suddenly everything, international, national, local, everything gone. Well, I could also add, we had the connectivity to bring the Olympics to Latin America. We were doing all these connectivities. I was ready to knock on Jill's office and say, Jill, we need to bring on this cable because we have all this traffic coming to Latin America. And so in the case, what? No more Olympics. If I could just share, so I've gotten to know, having the last few months, as a matter of fact, we were together in Brazil when this outbreak happened, and we were almost stuck in Brazil because of the outbreak. But I've gotten to know the bold data platform, and it's extraordinary what they've built. They've built a broadcasting engine that can serve a global need. And yes, the world is on pause, but it's a pause. The desire for all of us to want to see events and be part of events has not gone away. And we're collaborating with gold data on very unique applications between Latin America and Europe, which all the infrastructure that we collectively on this panel do is enabled by what gold data can broadcast. So I think it's a pause for us, you know, Octavio, I think we're going to find new applications. As you kind of shared before, there was a concert that people wanted to see and they're going to kind of make it happen anyway. It's kind of a way of having to all reinvent ourselves. And that's what's happening. Yeah, it sounds muting. All right. So thank you, Octavio and Gil for that. It does kind of, you know, speak to the ripple effect of what's going on. Lots of things are happening. And then new things happen, which is a good lead into the next story or war story from Hunter, which is more medical related about COVID and the innovation that has come out of this crisis. Share that with us, Hunter. Sure, certainly. So although my history is really building a network, neutral infrastructure, carry hotels, meeting rooms, that sort of thing dealing with the subsea and terrestrial fiber network. After I formed my holding company, I started making investments in things that were not necessarily directly visible network, but related to network infrastructure at the higher layers. So I made an investment in a blockchain company that built a platform for supply chain management. The company's called Citizens Reserve and the platform called Supia. And a couple of the original applications for blockchain distributed ledger technology, which all relies on the infrastructure that we build and own and operate and maintain every day. So that's the fun part. But the one of the original applications was to track beef, effectively cattle from the farm to the store. So they, the super guys did a deal with Senco Sioux in Latin America, which is a big retail supermarket chain. So they had built out this whole platform to track things in the basically products that go through the supermarket. And then COVID happened. And I'm skipping over a big part just for time purposes, but the super guys had a deal with a company called Smart Track, which manufactured RFID and NFC tags. And Smart Track was acquired by Avery Denison last year in November. And Avery Denison is a Fortune 100 company. You probably know them from office supplies like labels and things like that. So when COVID happened, there was a big need for test kits. I think we've all heard about testing for COVID, like ad nauseam. Probably the only other thing we've heard more about is ventilators as it relates to COVID. But immediately with the need for test kits, there's so many different sources of test kits. Almost instantaneously, there were fake test kits being made. Literally companies were copying and pasting barcodes and UCs and other standards-based information and just printing it on packaging and selling fake test kits. It became a big problem fast. So this blockchain platform, Suku, in conjunction with Avery Denison, and there was a press release about this, so I'm sure you'll be able to find that after this panel, started to apply the NFC tags with the blockchain to test kit packaging for multiple purposes versus authentication, to authenticate that it's actually a real test kit and then for traceability and tracking of the person that was tested in the test results. One of the sort of byproducts of the initial COVID situation was that everyone was obsessed with the number of cases and then the number of cases that were positive and then what the result was, you know, did the person live, die, recover, or whatever. And there were probably three sources of data, at least World Health Organization, CDC and WorldOmeter for those people that were checking that source. And there was never a day that all three had the same numbers. It's a little frustrating because no one had accurate data. So here we are now with Suku being applied with the tags so that the data can not only be accurate but collected in real time and reported. So I think maybe this situation that we all just passed through, you know, was thrust upon everyone and hopefully, you know, this subsides soon. We'll see. But we'll all be better prepared for the next whatever it is because something's bound to happen and we'll be able to collect and track data and have real information reported and not cause panic and fear and hysteria that we had to live through. So anyway, that's what happens. Right. So that's a little different kind of angle but definitely in terms of innovation and the things that are coming out of this that, you know, some of the lessons learned, it's, you know, it's very interesting to see what happens and the amount of time that it took to, you know, to reinvent that was, you know, faster than it ever would have been if it had been planned as a product from start. It was not thought of or planned for. It was a pivot on the part of multiple companies, large and small to create that solution and apply it to that problem at that time. It came together relatively quickly, but I think everybody had to figure out how to mobilize data centers, submarine cable systems, terrestrial fiber networks. Everybody was pushed to work at home and, you know, we're all now using, you know, go to webinar and zoom and teams and, you know, lots of just things dramatically and just a few short ones. Exactly. And that's a good lead into the next one, which is more kind of, you know, it's called nuts and bolts show, but Joe is going to talk about a service delivery and prioritizing kind of the essential or deemed to be essential COVID related installs and what you have to get that to happen. Yes, one thing that we that we've done very quickly, you know, I represent, you know, which is basically service providers, right? You know, we know we realize very quickly that there was a demand for the services that we offer, whether we were, you know, we have three, but across the business lines, you have consumers that to the home that needed either some didn't have connectivity to the internet or broadband. So there were new users and then there was those that had it that needed increased speeds. So the consumer group, there was demand for that from a business standpoint, when people went from, you know, move from the work at work to the work at home, you had, you know, the network making sure that they had their VPNs and bandwidth into the VPNs and enough connectivity for people to connect to corporate networks. And then as we just mentioned, there was others that that had to implement some sort of video technology, whether it was Zoom or teams or whatever, all that required, you know, bandwidth from a wholesale standpoint, we provide and we provide companies, cable companies, content companies, gaming companies with capacity. We saw very quickly that there was a demand for the services and it was core transport internet type capacity. But what we also learned very quickly is that that from a service provider, all the services were in demand, we weren't immune to the situation that was going on because some of the equipment manufacturers were seeing some supply chain challenges, you know, as, you know, for the components for their services. So, you know, service providers, but on each end, you usually require equipment from an optimal, when the core networks, in many cases, an optical card, right, even if they have a system built, and those core required components and those components are built in factories all over the world. And in some cases, those factories were shut down. So, so we learn that pretty quickly. What we did on our end, you know, a couple of things, you know, I think we work closely with our equipment manufacturers to try to order services, even though the services weren't necessarily in demand at the moment, just try to get a more aggressive forecast to get on their end equipment ordered in manufacture so that we could use it, you know, very, very quickly in the future. And then, you know, we also learn very quickly is that the technicians weren't able to necessarily get out to the to the to get to the data center, to the end user's office. So, what we did on our end, we put together some, what I would call emergency type services for COVID type. So customers that needed a circuit internet connectivity as it related to COVID, they were labeled inside of our company, and we, we prioritize those and some of them we got in very, very quickly. And you see inside companies and our company isn't huge, but we have almost 1212 and a half thousand employees when you label one of these orders or service that it's COVID related. I want to help fulfill a need in the marketplace people, people bind together to try to deliver the services. And we did see that quite a bit inside our company. Thank you. So there's a lot going on, a lot of new reality, kind of redefining, reinvesting, looking at the future. So there are lessons learned and like to start off with like, what do we know for sure? Where is this going? What are the things that surprised you or you think really need to focus on to start it? So, like, Gil, you want to start with that? Sure. I mean, just to apple with Joe shared before, we're still going through this. It's not over yet. We've done code orange now for three, three and a half months. And that means we're very selective on who comes to our facility. We've got strict guidelines. We've got international carriers that cannot get their employees into the U.S. to service their equipment. We've got large OTTs that cannot bring their tax into New Jersey to service their equipment. And we're doing all that work in house for them now. And luckily it's going smoothly. But we also have stage two, we've got protests happening in our country. Our major cities are going through major challenges. Aside from the protests, you know, they're not going to be the same for a long period of time. If you're the major metro environment, the idea of using mass transit is something that is not appealing to most employees. Getting into high rise buildings with elevators and having to manage how do I get up and downstairs when I'm only allowed to go to an elevator at a time. And that isn't the entire industry because right wrong or indifferent, 20 years ago, global networks went to major metros, Miami, New York City. And those are not the places you want to be right now with your tax. That's not where you want to have your critical assets hubbing through. We built NJFX as trying to get ahead of what we saw were natural disasters. They used to be hurricane sandy for us. It used to be 9-11. We never had on the radar pandemic and uprising, social unrest. Now we've got those that we're dealing with. And we're getting ready for hurricane season because sure, it started this month. So, you know, the stars are aligning in ways that we never quite imagined. And we built a facility that was purpose built. It wasn't repurposed as something else before an office building or warehouse. It was a tier three data center with subsea ducts, with backhaul, with a community of interests. And the lesson learned is we've got a plan. We can't just try and sweep our way to prosperity. I think going forward, the lesson learned is outages are customer's faults. They're not provider's faults, right? Providers provide a service that they can give you in a predictive manner. It's not guaranteed to always work. If you want it to always work, the customer is responsible for making the plans to have backups and resiliency within their architecture. And that means diversifying their network carriers, their hubs, having that resilience put into it. I think the lessons learned are still coming fast and hard. I think this fall will be an interesting time as you start to see the true push on the networks that happened the last three months. It's great that all the carriers got a full load of new orders. But how did those orders come in? They used all of their supplies that were in spare to put the customers up and running. Now you have the customer running at an 80% utilization. There's no more room to grow. So I think lessons learned are still to come. I think there'll be those that are prepared, those that weren't prepared. And I think over time, people will pay for value again when they know that it's a rock solid solution. Interesting. Yeah. Matt, do you want to add to that? Because you had similar types of approval. I think the very fact that we're talking on a medium like this means that we didn't screw up, right? So I'm here in the UK. You guys are all, we're dotting around the planet. We're communicating daily using these kind of methods and mechanisms. Why is that? Some of it's about design. Some of it's about anticipation. So in some ways, we looked at general disaster view and we thought, okay, business continuity, all these things that we've learned over successive problems. We had the 10 years ago, the Icelandic volcano that stopped flights all around Europe that created a similar smaller kind of problem to address. We're very good at addressing problems in our industry and we're actually quite good at collaborating and being cooperative. But I think taking the view a little bit further forward, one of the things that we're going to see in my view is a real scrutiny of supply chain. We've always, we've a kind of unique organization in Aquacons where we rely a lot on what I call intelligent outsourcing. So we keep a lot of the knowledge base and process and intellectual piece inside the company, but we outsource various activities and so we're used to cooperating with other people and in our international telecoms arena, you have to cooperate with other people. You've always had to cooperate for the last 100 years in able to traffic to flow across national boundaries. So we're kind of predisposed towards it anyway. But the big globalization that's occurred and supply chains that are really kind of thinly strung out to the one or two factories, maybe an Asia that makes this tiny component that goes in every motor car and that was suddenly, you know, that stops along with all the other things, transport stopping, et cetera, et cetera, you know, really has made everybody sit up and think. I think we're in great shape as an industry because we think like this. If you've had anything to do with the network for the last 20 years, you know that one is none and two is one, right? That's a rough, a rough calculation. You need three to be sure that you're going to have a decent service and maybe four to ensure that you're going to have a large volume service. So all of that has taught us to make sure we collaborate. If I have something on my cable, I have something on the next door cable and maybe the next door again. If we have buildings, we have more than one. We have, you know, resilience in power supply, fuel supply, all these different things that, you know, Gil's done really well in his building there in New Jersey. And the thing is it's the arrangements that we're going to have to make going forward to perhaps think about whether this happens again or whether there's a long tail to this, whether it means international travel is stopped for quite a considerable time. And we're just going to have to think about business arrangements differently. I'm quite happy if somebody's got facilities nearby my facilities and I've got people who I put in those facilities. They're not busy every hour of every day. There's going to be an ability to share resources under some kind of banner of activity. And we're just going to have to get better at cooperating. And that's going to drive a little bit of localization and specialty. And what we do in the submarine cable side is we build the, you know, the bedrock kind of the even underneath the rails of the railway, you know, we're building the permanent way that all that data flows across. So we just have to be very open about who we supply it to and very open about who we collaborate and cooperate with for it to be resilient. In just one point, I'll say we're laying cables at the moment. We're building a cable across the Atlantic. The effect of COVID on that was zero because the ship was at sea. It had cable in the ship. The last thing they wanted to do is to come into a port and interact with all these unclean people, you know, on land and the ship stayed at sea for 116 days. All it did was pick up fuel and food and it carried on and delivered the cable. Now, when it comes to changing out the crew, we get complexity of quarantine and, you know, all these kind of different local laws. But by and large, even the delivery of projects that are due for delivery later in the year carried on. My thought really, and we should discuss perhaps is what about developing new things? We haven't got together around a table. We haven't got together and thought about what's the next thing we want to do. So the early phase of projects has been really difficult in COVID, but, you know, carrying on with existing networks and to some degree building additional ones, no problem. Yeah, and I just add on to what he said, Rosemary. I think the lesson learned, he hit on the head. Certainly supply chain is going to, that's going to be impacted and how we look at that across many industries, whether it's medicine or whatever. But in our industry, those components is a big piece. And I think you'll start to see bigger partnerships, more communication between whether it's a service provider or a cable manufacturer, data, you know, a co-location company on what it is that the future plans are going to look like. I don't know anyone that's going to necessarily look ahead and see what the next pandemic is. I think the only one thought we would be here is probably Bill Gates. He was the only one that was probably, you know, predicting this would happen. But outside of him, none of us were really ready for this. And I think we're managed around it. But when you look ahead, I think really good communication with your customers on what it is that they're going to need not only now, but in the future. So you can plan around it. You can plan your network, your data center, your cable system, your products, whatever it is. And then you can kind of communicate that out to those down the food chain that are going to be impacted, who's providing the equipment, who's providing the network, who's providing the edge device. And so I think proactive planning, you'll see much more of that throughout the business. Moving forward. And that's exactly right. I think what we're experiencing now from the customer standpoint is they're not sure what's happening. I mean, it's very difficult to plan when you don't know if you're going to have all of the people working at home that were forced to work at home. If they're all going to come back to the same, you know, locations or whether that's going to be shifted to a new model, which requires new things. So and new applications and new kinds of, you know, connectivity. So anyone want to address that? And I think I want to point out that the exercise of remote work, it was a global exercise for everybody. And we saw that it works. Actually, people is doing more. They're more productive. Then that's not an issue. The problem is the daily activities of the human beings on different countries, trying to have a life. You used to work and then on the weekend, watch that soccer game. Having fun with your family and friends. Now you cannot do it. Going to the movies. You cannot do it. Certain parts of our operation of our businesses, they still work. They go ahead. But the rest of the planet, that they don't deal with cables, fiber and black boxes, they live in another reality. And that's the challenge. How am I going to get people together to enjoy again now? How am I going to deliver that? So we are now we are in the fast track to come with new solutions, new alternatives for people to enjoy, to have access to that. So that on our side, that's the challenge. There was, I was on a call last night about another major conference that is looking at whether to have their event or not have their event. And I brought up gold data just because I said, this particular venue is unique that we love to go to an annualized basis. This event in the middle of the Pacific Ocean is a place that in January, we all love to spend time. Wouldn't there be a way for those that can go to go to this conference and the rest of us to use a broadcasting platform, not just to see the panels, but to go to the nighttime events and feel like I got a taste of Hawaii in January. Have someone with a microphone walk around and broadcast what's happening there so that we don't forget what it's like to interact with each other. It's going to be a moment in time as we all hope. But I think broadcasting is a great application and to have new providers out there that enable that till we can still feel part of each other's environments and events is going to be critical. And I think there'll be new applications. There'll be other things that we haven't thought of yet that will be forced to be invented, and it's all going to reside on these networks that we have. I agree with that. And what Octavio said, if we just bring it on home, the supply chain, which has been mentioned multiple times now, supply could be the data or the content or the physical material, whatever that is, and the chain itself or the networks. And our world, those are submarine networks, those are terrestrial networks, and the places where they meet. So we're responsible for creating, building, and maintaining all of that chain so that everyone else can live in blissful ignorance as to what it is that is beneath it. But we can all still be together virtually doing business, virtually socializing. I will say though, Gil, it's going to be really hard to feel like you're in Hawaii, if you're not in Hawaii. I can just imagine Rosemary with a Mai Tai standing on the deck. You know, you can met a lot, Gil, but being in New Jersey in February or January is not going to feel good. I think it drives the local, a little bit of localism again. I know that's difficult for a global event. But yeah, you might get events in the coming year or two where there's three or four centers that are connected together by some amazing broadcasting functionality. But I think, I mean, we just come out of the back of a virtual ITW, which has had some attendance and it's had some good panel sessions, not unlike the kind of thing we're doing now. You know, those things, actually I think you'll find get more attendance by being virtual than being physical. But it's hard to replace the networking and meeting when there's not a volume of people. I've seen the future in a couple of the deals that I'm in. One of them is Dreamview Studios. And amongst other things, they're CGI experts, the guys that like created Jurassic Park. So they're building really interesting digital double technology avatars. And if you look at Unreal Engine 5 right now, what that is, what Fortnite is and what that's becoming, with this whole current situation of remoteness, I think of a not too distant future, you'll have a digital double of yourself attending virtual conferences in the Fortnite Unreal Engine 5 or 10, whatever environment that you could program with AI to say, go out and sell some subsea capacity, and then you get like a text on your phone. Virtual Nigel just did a deal. I'm not sure we want duplicates of ourselves here, but I can certainly say this, that I think that a lot of the services that I get provided are underappreciated. And a lot of things are. The conferences are underappreciated, people miss conferences. The speed, connectivity from your home is underappreciated because people are just expected to work. Your cell phone is expected to work, but a lot of the infrastructure goes underappreciated and you only realize it when you don't have it. And I think one of the benefits of this, this entire pandemic and where we are is that the investment community, I think, realizes how important the infrastructure is, the global infrastructure for staying connected globally. And I do think that as a result of this, you'll probably see some additional investments in the business as it relates to infrastructure, making sure people are connected globally. Hopefully it's reflected in an increase in the EBITDA on multiples for our respective businesses. And a lot of the requirement then is going to be to do vertical integration of all those pieces and make it all work together. So it is seamless and people can push a button and get a great webinar at any time. Creativity is a really difficult thing to do remotely. That's where I think we're going to have a problem because all the creative deals that we spin when we actually talk to each other are very difficult to try and do remotely. It's a bit like the film industry. I have a friend in the film industry. They can't make that work. It needs to be organic and squashed together and sharing cups of coffee and the little sparks that create the beautiful realm of the finished movie or whatever it is. You can make a facsimile of it, but it's not 3D. It's a clear facsimile. And that's a good place to end. I know Carl's given us the sign, but it really isn't any substitute for being face-to-face and having human interaction, at least. And I think part of it is generational. I think younger people are more interested in being online with other people and not having that as much human interaction as we have may not feel the same. But anyway, that was a great discussion. Thank you all for your input and Carl, back to you. Thank you, Rosemary. Yes, and thank you to everyone for your insights on how we're rebuilding communications in the wake of COVID-19. Once again, our all-star panelists, Will Santolis, NJFX, Hunter Newby, Newby Ventures, Joe Scatterigia, Windstream, Octavio Hernandez, Gold Data, Nigel Bailiff, Aquacoms, and a big thank you to our guest moderator, Rosemary Cochran, principal and co-founder of Vertical Systems Group for keeping us on point today. Just a quick reminder, our speakers are staying on for the remainder of the lunch hour to answer any more of your questions on LinkedIn. Just search for hashtag JSA virtual roundtables, or click the direct link in the chat box to continue the Q&A. And viewers, if you were one of our first 100 registrants, we hope you enjoyed your lunch. Go ahead and visit us at jsa.net to register for upcoming JSA virtual roundtables, including our next one on July 30th, examining how we can safeguard our network infrastructure in today's brave new world. That's a wrap. Look out for the playback of today's roundtable coming soon to JSA TV and JSA podcasts on YouTube, iTunes, iHeart, Spotify, and more. In the meantime, see you over on LinkedIn. Happy networking and stay safe. Thanks everybody. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks all.