 We're here at the ITU in Geneva, and I'm very pleased to be joined by Zhao Zanon from Anatole, and he's also the vice chairman of Study Group 11. Zhao, welcome, and thank you very much indeed for joining us here today. Good morning Fred, thank you for inviting me. It's an honor to speak on behalf of Anatole and to the Group 11 on this topic. So we're here at the ITU workshop that's looking at global approaches on how to combat counterfeiting and stolen ICT devices, and much of this work is taking part in Study Group 11. Before we begin could you please explain to our viewers what kind of challenges you're facing in Brazil regarding counterfeiting and stolen ICT devices, and also how is the work in Study Group 11 helping you to meet these challenges? Of course, the counterfeiting and stolen devices are a very big problem at least in the American region and also in Brazil. With the growth of ICT in parts of that and the value of these devices, it has become very common. Actually, the most common tough right now is just the tough of stolen devices. So it puts a lot of danger on the person. It's a lot of revenue that is being lost by the network, and the same thing goes with the counterfeiting problem. It puts a lot of threat to every stakeholder on this ecosystem. Looking, for example, at the end user, a counterfeiting device can help use some dangerous materials in terms of the health. It can be cancerous. There are some like the battery or the charger can either charge and explode sometimes, so it can put a lot of threat to the user. And also the quality of terms of the calls are very low based on the studies that we have received on Study Group 11. So this is a very strong problem that we are also facing on Brazil, and it's not easy to fix that alone. You need to have some cooperation, especially on the stolen part, because it's very common also to have devices stolen on your country and sold on the neighborhood. So it's important to have cooperation and share of ideas, and that's where Study Group 11 can be a very good platform to exchange this information on that. Okay, and we've seen in the workshop that there are some big challenges with the duplication and cloning of ICT identifiers. What are some of the solutions available that can help to combat this problem? Yes, as you see, the counterfeiting and the stolen devices combat is very touching with the unique identifiers. As we have discussed on WTSA, the last conference that we have for the ICT sector, we have two new resolutions, resolution 96 and 97, and the 96 for counterfeiting and 97 for our stolen devices, and both are then touched in part on a few unique identifiers on the solutions. Most of the solutions that we see, Brazil included, relies on reliable unique identifiers to fix this problem. So if you have a bad identifier, if it can be temperate or cloning, you cannot track correctly the problem and you can have some troubles and even have some impact on the good user. For example, if you have a device, a genuine device that has been cloned, how can you differentiate it both? What is the good one and the bad one? So it's important to have some solutions on that. Right now on Study Group 11, we have two frameworks going on to track the counterfeiting and the stolen devices, and both have identified the need to have some reliable unique identifiers on that. And now, the next path would be exactly how we can proceed on that, what are the solutions that can assist the countries, the members of ITU on that. We are studying still some possible actions, for example, fingerprinting of the technical aspects of the device would be one way, and the other path, for example, that would be just outside of the unique identifiers, so the network itself can check the device. And the last part, another alternative would be the tracking the life cycle of the device. And some technologies could assist on that. For example, blockchain is a very new technology that can assist you maybe on this path. So these are some ideas that we are exploring and we are expecting contributions to try to get some recommendations on that. Very interesting. And Shao, I'd like to thank you very much indeed for your time and wish you a successful workshop. Thank you. Thank you, Fred, and thank you guys for being with us today. Thank you.