 This is Stink Tech, Hawaii. Community Matters here. Welcome to Quack Talk. I'm Crystal here. It's the season. Christmas is here upon us and it's time for Nutcracker. Now classical ballet always has this beauty of tradition and gorgeous sets and costumes, but today on Quack Talk, of course, we're going to have to deconstruct that a little bit and challenge these stereotypical gender and racial roles that kind of are assumed into a lot of classical performances. So on that note, I have two professional dancers here to talk about the beauty and trials and tribulations of being in the production of the Nutcracker here at Ballet Hawaii. So let's introduce our guest. So this is... Hi, I'm Redward Simer. I'm playing the role of Clara in this year's Nutcracker and I'm also a student at Mid-Pacific and Ballet Hawaii. So people don't know who Clara is if you don't know anything about ballet. It is the story that evolves around Clara and maybe Red can explain that a little bit later. And then we have Miss Mickey. Hi. I'm Mickey Colver. I'm a dance teacher at Ballet Hawaii and I'm not a student. No, you're not just a student. You're not just a Ballet Hawaii. Not a lifelong student. And Mickey, share a little bit about your past because a lot of people just from Ballet school know you as a teacher, but they don't know your past as a professional dancer. Okay. Well, I have a very short career, but I started training professionally at the Kirov Academy in Washington, D.C. and from there, I was a trainee with Ballet Austin. A trainee is like an unpaid company member. And then I danced professionally with the Louisville Ballet in Kentucky. And then I moved to England and danced with a small company in London called Ballet Black. Ballet Black? Is that still around? Yeah. It's an interesting title. Is there anything referenced to...? Yeah. It was a pretty amazing experience. It was kind of a weird find. I wasn't planning on performing with them at all. I didn't even really know they existed at the time, but they're specifically for black and Asian dancers. Cool. And the company right now has seven members. When I was there, it was about five. And the artistic director, Casa Poncho, is a female, not your typical male artistic director. And she's put together this amazing little company that tours throughout the U.K. And they've grown and they don't do Nutcracker yet, but I'm thinking at some point they're considering it. That'd be great. A little mini. Everybody has like five different parts. Yeah. Right. They have to move around. Quick change costume. Yeah. But you've brought up some very interesting and important issues is that the aspect of color, as in like racial distinctions and gender roles in the world of ballet, read... I mean, you're a student here, but you lived in Asia before. By the way, if anybody doesn't know her, she's my daughter. She's just happy. That's just a weird coincidence, right? But what is the story of the Nutcracker? And from your perspective as Asia, well, biracial, growing up in Asia and coming here and seeing interpretations, that's kind of, I don't know if you both agree that Nutcracker is mostly Euro-Shen centric based on the history and the tradition of the story. Well, there are many versions of the Nutcracker. And basically, Clara, she kind of carries the whole story. Drossmeyer is her mysterious uncle and he and his nephew, the prince, kind of take her on this magical journey throughout this land of wonders and candy. Everybody's dream. Yep. Do you think the role of Clara and a lot of the roles are just very clear cut, like feminine and masculine in the Nutcracker? Yeah. And in a lot of classical ballets? Yeah. You agree? Yeah. Definitely. Do you think that something needs to be challenged? Yes. How? In the battle scene, there are the rats and I'm, you know, acting like, oh my gosh, there's literally a, like, we're just all like, you know, shiver because the rat king comes on. And then the prince is my savior and he fights the rat king while I just act scared in the back. And, you know, I want to fight the rat king. I don't know. At least give me a sword. That's awesome. Thank you. You guys always have the fun. You know, we're always assuming that it's the damsel on distress. It's the girl who's the fragile one that needs to be saved by the prince. And to the, in today's age, you know, we can't just kind of accept those old, I mean, there's a beauty to tradition, but there's also a beauty to challenging and then reinterpreting things. Mick, you said that there were other interpretations of the Nutcracker that you've seen before too. Yeah. Well, there's some more like modern versions, not just classical ballet that take, I think they play with the role of Clara a little bit, that she's not always the same dimmer, sweet little girl. I know that the traditional, I mean, most companies do a traditional Nutcracker. But what I think actually is interesting about the female heroine in ballets, in all classical ballets, is that the ballet does revolve around the female. It does revolve around her story. And it's always the female in the end who's standing in the center of the stage. Yes. A couple of photos of the classic version of the, you know, the fairy. I think this was our ballet Hawaii version. Let's take a look at some, what we have of the ballet Hawaii version of the Nutcracker. Well, that's the new one. Well, let's talk about later. We don't want to, the old ones were the classical ballet, where I forget the name of the ballerina who came on last, the last couple of years. She was like the Sugar Plum Fairy? Yeah. That's Megan Fairchild. Yeah. Do we have that photo? Okay. So is that her? That's actually Leslie Rausch. Okay. So this is the Waltz of the Flowers. Leslie's with the Vic Northwest Ballet. Okay. So this is the classic interpretation. There's always the, but she's also a strong woman because these are the, you know, the queens of their kingdom, right? Yes. I think typically ballet features the strength of women, but the roles that they play aren't necessarily up to date. Yes. But definitely it's about the ballerina. And I know both PNB and New York City Ballet are influenced heavily by George Balanchine who kind of revered women. Yeah. And found them as his muse. Right. But he also choreographed a little bit more contemporary, jazz style ballets that put the women on a different, you know, it wasn't necessarily a story ballet, but it put the women on a different front, I think. Right. I believe Harlem Ballet, is it their company name? The Harlem netcracker, they transformed it all to use Duke Ellington's music. So it was jazzy and it's very cool and reinterpreted. Now the one we are doing at Ballet Hawaii is the Tchaikovsky's, right? And how do you feel about the different roles? Like, you know, there's the, okay, we're going to talk about racial stereotypes. Let's, we have to talk about the Chinese dance. What's with the, what's the sign? I don't even know what that means. I don't know. It's a pop stick. Are you serious? Yeah. Why isn't it like this? And then they have the Chinese accent. Yeah. It's really embarrassing, really. It's such a character of Chinese culture. I mean, I guess they're trying to, they're trying to obviously represent different countries, and I guess in order to do that, that's, that's what people believed would make it. I mean, now we're, we have so much more access to. Yeah. Seeing things worldwide without leaving the comfort of our home. So I feel like people are a little bit more educated in that aspect. But I think people just take for granted that this is a classical piece and it's traditional, so nobody cares to think about how things were portrayed. Because Tchaikovsky wrote this in 1892. And then when the ballet came out, you think about maybe their version of Orientalism. Was that, and what about the Arabian dance? Mickey, you performed in that, and you still are doing that this year. We have a couple of photos of you doing the Arabian dance. But let's talk about that. How do you feel about the image of, it means a very seductive dance. Yeah. I mean, there's a beauty to that, but some people criticize the racial undertones of it, but is that kind of part of that? I think so. I think, I mean, it's in the music, regardless of what ethnicity Arabian is going to be. The music is just very sultry. Yes. As a dancer, I tend to just, you know, to listen to music and interpret it, and there's no other way to interpret that music than to, whether I want to come out feeling sexy or not. You're dressed in a photo. You're dressed in like an Arabian costume. For this one. Yeah, this one. This is a Hawaiian version, though, which is really neat. So we're interpreting, our characters here are actually Hi'iaka and Lohi'au, which are traditional Hawaiian goddesses. So pretty. So we, yes, we're dressed in nothing but a leaf. Now, so, but this goes back and forth with the reinterpretation that the Valley of Hawaii has brilliantly done to use the Hawaiian backdrop instead of the Arabian one. Yeah, I think that's been, that's one of the reasons why I'm enjoying this one. Septim kind of has taken the traditional, not cracker, and for Hawaii has been able to change it around the suit Hawaii's needs. And that's something that's quite groundbreaking, yes? Yeah, and he's incredibly creative. Yeah, can you tell a little bit about Septim and who he is? He is, I think, a creative genius. I think he really knows how to... Where is he from? He's from Washington Ballet originally, and now he's working as artistic director of Hong Kong Ballet. Right. So that's a great connection to us. Yeah, and speaking of all the kind of revamps, I don't know if we want to... This is a pretty special kind of behind-the-scenes clip because I'm involved in a little small part, so I was able to film the rehearsal. So there's a small video if we can pull up of the behind-the-scenes rehearsal process of the neck cracker being practiced now, if we can find it. If not, we can do it right after the break. But let's talk a little bit about those roles, like you say. You know, when you said that, how come Clara can't do the sword fighting? And then when I re-look at the story and how it's portrayed, like how the girls are rocking their dolls. We've had a lot of discussions about that. Oh, really? Yeah. But more on the aspect of that, she's more mature, Clara. I believe she's a little bit... She at least appears more mature than the other Clara's we've had, I think, in the past. She's not as little girlish, and so she and I have been talking about how to portray Clara as her and a little bit less as a little girl, but as a girl who's, you know, maturing and becoming a young adult in that journey through the kingdom of sweets. And that's a little bit different, I think. And I think there's that dynamic between, like, the prince, this distant, intimidating but attractive figure that you don't know really how. You know, like a teenage girl. You don't know. You're kind of... Yeah, there's some kind of intrigue and mystery. Yes. And especially this year, our prince is an older man as well. He's an older man. Sorry, older boy. He's like in his 20s, I believe. So, in that tip, last year, it was a teenager. So it was very different. You know, we have two very much more mature people, I think, in the roles. And who, Jose, where is he from? Jose Rodriguez. He is from... I'm not going to say it because I don't want to get it wrong. Well, how about this? We'll show people a glimpse of this rehearsal process. Again, to remind people, this is a really just working process. They don't really give their full out. I know Red's going to be super critical of her dance technique. But it's kind of a little glimpse of the process of rehearsing and the beauty of this process of creating an amazing dance. So let's take a look at the clip. You know, because then it goes into the kids and the beauty of their little... the innocence and the energies of all the... And then it goes back to the old man who was played by Carlos, which is brilliant, too. What is the process of rehearsal for you? What are some experiences you want to share? Or some challenges? Challenges. Definitely, I would say, just, you know, creating your character, building, you know, who you are. And I don't know, finding, you know, how would she react to this. And Ms. Mickey, like, tells me, you know, even just simple things like how I hold the Nutcracker, you know, how I look at it. It's really supposed to be... If you don't, I don't know, I think if you don't build the character for yourself and you don't really believe it, the audience isn't going to believe it. So I've been struggling in rehearsal, trying to get into that mindset, like, you know, Clara is naive, innocent, you know, very youthful, maybe curious. What does she want? What does Clara want? What does Clara want? What does Clara want? That's her dream. Because you think about the whole act, too. There's a lot of interpretation of whether this is Clara's kind of vision of something, you know, the dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy, or is it something that really comes to life for her that she's transported into an amazing place because of what she wants in life. Kind of neat. I think that's up to the audience. I guess so, yeah. Yeah. Lead that to the audience. Deep, by the way, do you know the background of the Nutcracker, the history of the actual Nutcracker? I think it's German. And it used to be bought and given to people in their houses as presents to ward off evil. It's kind of a sign of good luck. And also, the Nutcracker, it shows its teeth. If you always see the image of the traditional, because it's supposed to ward off evil, it's like, and it also represents the cycle of life because you crack nuts, and then the seeds go back into the ground, and then it's really quite the nice metaphor. So it's another layer for you to think about. Yeah, there you go. Another layer for you to think about. So, yeah, there are lots of little elements we want to break down a little bit more, but let's take a quick break and then we'll come back and then we'll talk about, you know, the world of a teenage girl and her interpretation of dreams and Mickey being a professional dancer and coming here, and I can't believe you just said that you were going to be retiring because is this like public knowledge? I know. You know, if you're way too young and you're a gorgeous dancer, so let's come back and talk more about Nutcracker so don't go away. This is Think Tech Hawaii, raising public awareness. I just walked by and I saw what's happening, guys. They told me they were making music. You're the way you are. You're the way you are. Hello, Hawaii. It's Monday of each week. Please take a look. I'm your host, Seikari Nisei. Aloha. Back to talk talk here. I'm still talking about Nutcracker, the traditions and how it kind of places gender stereotypes and racial stereotypes in it and people don't really think about questioning it, but when you do think about it, then it goes, wow, that was pretty racist or maybe it's the movement of the times and we're really reading into things when we shouldn't. I don't know, it's up to you. Let's talk about it back here with Red and Mickey. Do you agree there is some little nodding of the heads there? Yeah, that was an interesting movement of the times. I don't know how we were taking it too far. What do you think about that? Are we hypersensitive to women's issues now where we're kind of like scraping into things where we shouldn't or is this important and is it good to challenge why Clara should be this passive girl who just gets a doll and doesn't get to fight in the scene? Yes. Well, she does get to stun the Rat King. I'm not sure if she stuns him or kills him. I don't know. I see my slipper and it's not like a dagger. What do you do? I don't know, he's going to die and then I look at my shoe. Oh, and then I throw my... This is the only thing I had. Like the sword doesn't kill the Rat King, my shoe does. Hi, heel shoe. Let's take a look at a picture. You're all dressed up when we were taking photos for the netcracker and you have this beautiful dress on. You have to work with a hoop. You've got gloves on. Do we have that photo? And you're like, just look at that. Okay, so you have this embroidered big dress and look at their little mice. I mean, they have to dance around in these costumes and you have this... Think about how people dress them, I'm just thinking. A teenage girl would have to wear gloves, hoop skirt, corset, right? You can't really be taking a sword, right? You think about it. And the hair. What about the process? What's with the curls? This is so ancient. I mean, it's beautiful. Oh, it's gorgeous. But if you had modern hair on that like now, it really wouldn't do it, would it? So people take it for granted. We don't know the process that goes behind in making up something. I mean, six hours to set your curls. What are some issues that you have to deal with? I hate makeup. I hate makeup. It takes so long. And fixing your dresses and figuring out how to dance with certain things. And that's Miss Pam. And she's the gorgeous founder of this whole Valley of Hawaii and made it what it is today. And she's always on ball watching everything, too. So, yeah. I mean, there's a woman's role for you. She's a strong woman. I have a lot of respect for Miss Pam. So you can be feminine and strong at the same time. Do you agree? Yes. And I agree it's important if you're a female and it's okay with you to be female. I think that's interesting that you brought up that. Are we overthinking it? I think it's very powerful to be female and to embody everything about that. What about the combination of being female and being a woman of color? Because it's interesting that you danced for a company that was supposed to be of color. And you mentioned before that you've had – have you been kind of typecast in certain roles because of Asian? Oh, yeah. So, speaking of when we were talking about the Chinese variation before, I've done every Chinese variation in every nutcracker I've ever been in. And you didn't know those were chopsticks? No, I have no idea they were chopsticks. They probably thought I knew, but I didn't know. But it was bound to, you know, every year the cast list would go up, I kind of know. And a lot of times in companies your roles are based off of your height, as well. And I specifically remember being much taller than all of the other girls who were doing the Chinese dance. But there was probably another reason for me being cast as Chinese. I'm not Chinese. I'm Korean. You can't even distinguish that. So if you're under a Charlemagne hat, it's all the same. She doesn't need to do the makeup. It's okay. But Valley Hawaii actually is the first nutcracker I have never done to Chinese. Oh. And it's not even Arabian. It's like Hawaiian now. Yeah, it's very different. I did get to do the Arabian variation in their original production which was also pretty amazing because I have never done the Arabian variation other than here at Valley Hawaii. Let's talk about that. This new revamped Hawaiian backdrop for the nutcracker at Valley Hawaii. What's that? And how long ago did we start that? I think this is our third year. So what's the reinterpretation? What's it set in? It's set in the 1858 Kingdom of Hawaii, so it's still a little bit ancient. It's not modernized. And the party scene takes place at Washington Place which is a historical monument, I guess, in the city with Mary Dominus hosting the party with her son, John. And a bunch of characters are invited to the party, like Lydia Pocky who becomes Queen Liliwa Kalani and her brother David Kalakawa come to the party. The party is the first Christmas tree, I believe, in Hawaii. Oh, wow. Yeah, I know there's some things that I didn't know. But apparently, SEP team and Pam did a lot of research to put these little elements into the ballet that I think sometimes the audience doesn't really know about. I think we have one photo from the opening in the party scene where all the kids are surrounded by, is that Drosselmeyer with the eye patch? I don't know if we have that one to pull up, but continue talking. This is really interesting. I didn't know that there's so much historical locations. So it's this Christmas party. Mary Dominus, I think, actually held a Christmas party for children in Hawaii. And that's where the influence for Drosselmeyer came from. So this is the actual first party, kind of reenactment of the first Christmas party. And then we've sort of changed the dolls and toys around to represent more Hawaiian characters. We have a hibiscus doll and a palace guard doll, I believe it has something to do with the Liliwa Kalani's palace. I've been dressed as if it was Hawaiian though. I mean, but it was kind of colonial. Yes, exactly. So that's why even Lydia and David come dressed in western wear. At that time with the western influence they were dressing differently. So it's really interesting to see similarities and differences when you, not challenge tradition, but you highlighted by using a different kind of cultural background. And with us being all of different cultural backgrounds, it's really interesting to throw that into it too, right? I mean, is Clara, I don't know, do you ever think of her as being Asian or is she western? What's her upbringing? What your family background is? If you really want to crack into the role of a person, you have to think about the backstory. I mean, as a little kid I always imagined Clara as like a blonde, you know, regular... Yeah, girl. That's interesting. When I was a little kid, I went to Washington DC and saw the Universal Ballet. They're from Korea. And that was the first time I'd seen an entire ballet company of Asian dancers. And I said, I want to be in that company. And that was what drove me to go to the cure-off, actually, because they feed, they're connected to Universal Ballet. But I never ended up dancing with them. But it was pretty amazing to see that. You do always grow up thinking, I did too, that Clara is this little blonde girl. That's why culture is such an important element in creativity, too, because you want to feel like you fit and you want to feel like you're being represented. And, you know, that's the beauty of Hawaii, too, because we're so surrounded by such a heavily Asian influence, too. And you look at the cast, I mean, you want to talk about the cast, like, where everybody... There's a nice mix and it's really quite international there, right? But there's always an outweigh of more girls than boys, right? In previous productions, a lot of the girls had to play the soldiers, and they still do. So that's kind of a gender-reversing of both. Sometimes party boys, too. I used to have to play male roles. Did you? Did you not enjoy that? I played the Jester in Cinderella when I went back and guested with my former from school. They didn't have a male guest dancer to do it, and I could jump, so they put me in that role. Oh, okay. It's really funny. But yeah, there's always that. That happens. I guess it wouldn't happen on a larger scale. It was a pretty small production. They would want to have an actual man do that role. Right. What are some big names of principal dancers coming to Valley Hawaii that are part of this production? Do you guys know? Well, this year we have some new people, right? Yes, we do. Joaquin DeLuzzi's coming back. He's been our Cavalier for many, many years. He recently retired from New York City Ballet, so he's going to do one more with us. Awesome. And then our Sugar Plumeria Oh, I like that. This year, yes, is Angelica Generosa. She is a soloist with Pacific Northwest Ballet. And speaking of ethnicities, I believe she's Filipino, I believe. Okay. But I think that's always interesting to bring dancers here to Hawaii who look like people here because I think then, you know, you'll have the little kids going to see the show and they won't have that question of can I dance or not? Because they're being represented on every scale and we have Leslie Roush who is this amazingly beautiful, tall blonde woman. We have a complete scale of dancing. Can we pull up that gorgeous picture of the flowers? There's this one. That was the Hawaiian version and this was the ending scene. We saw it in the beginning with all the flowers. What kind of flowers were they? Those are crown flowers. Those are trumpet flowers. Crown flowers are these like purple. Right, green. This is amazing. I mean, I don't even want to show it because you have to come and see the performance itself. But it is absolutely spectacular and the reinterpretation of the traditional ballet with the Hawaiian rainbow. You see the background of the ocean and like you said, the inclusivity of people representing different nations. I see you there in your skimpy Hawaiian. I actually sewed another leaf onto that costume last year. So let's tell everybody how to get tickets and what we should look out for because this is a show not to be missed. I mean, I'm serious. It is an absolutely gorgeous production. Hawaiian background interpretation of that cracker by Tchaikovsky. Tell us how to get tickets. I think you just go online to ballethawaii.org and purchase your tickets. You can go through Ticketmaster. You can go down to the Blaisdell office in person and go to the box office and buy tickets. And again, so we have Miss Mickey who is playing the Hawaiian... Oh, Hii'iaka, who is an Arabian dance and I also get to do Lidiapaki in the party scene. Okay, and... I'll be Clara. You'll see me as Clara. Playing the role of Clara. No, but it's a beautiful world of the teenage girl going and embracing all these fantasies and dreams and desires, right? And I have a tiny, tiny part as a black widow. Oh, the Mary widow. She's in black. So again, this is a really nice celebration of the holidays, of the Christmas spirit. It's also a celebration of inclusivity, as I said, traditions, reinterpretations, intercultural connections, and international kind of a combining of a fantastic production. So wishing you both an amazing production. You too. Thank you. Go see it and let's celebrate Hawaii and Christmas by seeing the night cracker and thank you for joining us today.