 Global Just Recovery Gathering. Thank you so so much for joining in this conversation on ending the finance of the fossil fuel industry with the monies of the peoples of America and also just around around the globe. And so that's the whole point of today is talking about how we can work together in various forms labored grassroots to our local governments, to our federal governments, our national governments to to ending this. I wanted to one just give you all a quick opportunity to introduce yourselves and and share with our viewers a little bit about your your background and I'm going to start with with our friend Bill and and then I'll and Bill then you can pass it to everyone. Tracy let me just say first of all many many thanks for convening us. I've had a long time too long a time maybe to work on climate change having written the first book about it back in the early back in the late 1980s and and gone on to helpfound350.org and do a lot of other organizing over the years and I'm particularly interested at the moment in these questions around money and finance and and whether or not we can somehow head off the kind of suicide pact that the world's economic system seems to be engaged in right at the moment. So I think the questions couldn't be more timely and I will pass it over to my old friend Sharon who I'm really glad always to get to see. So this is the time we've actually been saying now for almost a decade that all companies have to transition. It must be a just transition and that includes the big fossil fuel companies. If they don't transition to renewables then in fact they will eventually see themselves out of business. The problem with that strategy today is that the time is now much more urgent or the time line is much more urgent and we are still seeing the resistance to actually transitioning out of fossil fuels. Some of these major fossil fuel companies have the platform they have the technology they have the finance capacity and they're backed by big shareholders to actually transition to renewables and if that transition has you know some timelines for gas along the way if it has some transition towards hydrogen all of that's fine but we need a transparent plan that shows when we can expect carbon neutrality and for workers how they're going to protect jobs and indeed where they can't protect jobs what are the just transition measures that will make it possible and they're very simple. It's actually about making sure that older workers have secure pensions if indeed the choice is early retirement there's a bridge to secure pensions. For younger workers that there is indeed income support for re-skilling with support for that training and of course redeployment support and there's responsibility for community renewal so we don't leave stranded assets we don't leave stranded people and we don't leave their community stranded so the time is now and it's urgent and finance is shifting so if these companies aren't shifting frankly jobs and communities are even more at risk. Right so I'm DeMond Drummer at New Consensus and I completely agree with Sharon you know I would add to that that there is an economic I can't even call it an ideology right now this hostility to government our government the instrument of the people playing an active role in facilitating and at times powering this transition that ideology has transferred into a dogma where there is active resistance to anything that sounds like our government at every level would be in some way involved and in some cases leading this transition and so we're talking about financial regulation you know outlawing and monitoring and regulating the amount of investment that can go to fossil fuel right those aren't assets as as bill has famously said those are you know that oil you know oil deposits and and and these um these uh you know these aren't assets on the balance sheets of BP this isn't an asset this is death and destruction and must be accounted for as such and so that requires regulation that requires limiting what we can and cannot do with investor money right and this really uh for some reason triggers a lot of uh reflexive um you know responses where folks think we're being you know uh you know trying to eliminate the entire private sector and so I've been fascinated at the hostility of like clear sensible commonsense solutions for folks who are afraid of government playing an active role in our society we know what that's all about I'm just going to jump in so hey everyone I am Mitzi Janel Tan I am a climate justice activist from the Philippines I organize with youth advocates for climate action the Philippines which is a long name but basically we're the Fridays for Future of the Philippines and I also organize with Fridays for Future International um as many of you guys probably know but maybe our audience doesn't the Philippines is one of the most vulnerable countries to the climate crisis we are hit by typhoon after typhoon year after year our average is 20 the strongest the three strongest storm landfalls in recorded history all happen in the Philippines and I basically just grew up with the typhoons right outside my door like I would have to spend weeks without electricity having to do homework by the candlelight and then I'm seeing that all these world leaders they're they're waving around net zero like a magic one as as Sharon mentioned earlier that as if this is the solution but right here we have a solution we have to phase out from the fossil fuel industry we have to end the the support for them financially but we're not doing that and it doesn't make sense to me as someone who is seeing the climate crisis happening before her very eyes someone who really understands that the climate crisis is a life and death situation that we still continue to fund this very thing this very energy system that is leading us to a path of destruction and and I actually graduated from university with a degree of mathematics and I remember thinking oh after I do this I'm going to go into climate activism and I never have to look at graphs and and excel sheets and numbers again I can just you know organize and be cool and then here I am finding that the finance classes that I took in mathematics would be actually be very helpful here not necessarily that I enjoy it but you know it's very helpful in in this type of activism and really you that's why it's so important that we don't just see numbers and we don't just see figures as I think Bill or Dimon already mentioned these are actual people being impacted by the lives of by by the decisions by one simple signature on a paper by one simple enter on a tab on a spreadsheet that's that's a life that that the fossil fuel industry is literally killing and not just in the future not just because of the climate crisis but today with with air pollution with displacement of farmers and fishing communities this is something that plenty of the coal plants here actually do and who's funding the coal plants here standard charge a bank in the UK banks from the global north so we're really seeing that it is a global problem and and we need to put pressure especially on the countries that are most responsible for the climate crisis thank you all for very very insightful and moving uh openers I really I could probably just let you all just talk and everyone would enjoy it but since I'm here I thought I'll jump in um I want to start with Dimon and and ask you how does ending fossil fuel finance relate to building a better world I mean it's it's uh it's it's everything right I mean I think um it's one thing to talk about a transition but if we're putting um if we're adding fuel to the fire which is finance as as Mitzi mentioned um that's just more stuff that we need to transition off of and so it comes down to and I want to be very clear here you know I remember uh Mitzi it's fascinating you have a background in finance and accounting and and know all the spreadsheets and stuff I'm re-embracing uh the the boring stuff that I avoided studying accounting in college and did like statistics instead now I'm like ah I gotta learn accounting because this stuff really matters right but anyway um I was I was being told uh in early 2020 that you know we shouldn't really be thinking about the federal reserve system which is not just uh America's kind of public bank it creates our money it also regulates banks and and says what they can and cannot do along with OCC and other regulators but I was being told in late 2019 early 2020 that you know the federal reserve system likes to go slow and and be measured and moderate and don't really think about the federal reserve as a vector of influence for transitioning off of fossil fuels uh and then COVID happened and we literally saw the federal reserve system and I'm quoting a news reporter on Bloomberg say the federal reserve system literally threw the kitchen sink times infinity at the financial out a fallout from the COVID crisis right kitchen sink times infinity for wall street basically nothing for many many months and I would say even now years a year later basically nothing for main street right and so what we're seeing here is that yes we have tools in our toolkit uh that can control not just create money but can control and and govern the flows of capital and money in our economy and we have to use those tools to divert and redirect not just public capital but private capital away from the stuff that's killing us and to the things that we need and again just saying that you know a year and a half ago was radical and revolutionary but now and I'm wrapping up here we see that it is entirely possible and so that's that's uh it's interesting to see how this is working out here so again we have the tools to eliminate the funding of fossil fuels fiscal policy and monetary and governance and regulation well there's no doubt that if you just pulled out the finance today and there was no plan for transition no alternative investment plans from government or the private sector in those communities then that will be devastating but that's why we support just transition so that there is in fact a plan that people can see and trust that they have hope hope is the centre of it of a secure future for themselves and their children and then all our polling is the same as yours people know we have to face the climate emergency people want their governments to act and I was interested to look indeed at the public finances because I think private finances will increasingly and we're seeing it now in fossil fuels will shift as as they start to see the risk from their own shareholders demands but also the capital return risk but if you think about public money 70 percent of emissions are not taxed at all not taxed at all 500 billion dollars goes to public subsidies on fossil fuels why only 300 billion goes to renewables and of course ODA to help with the developed economies where we could be sharing technology transitioning all economies making sure that everybody is indeed part of a more sustainable and resilient future then it is you know less than five percent of any kind of ODA and I think it's actually far less than that so we need to see all of this ramped up in action renewables should be at the forefront of people's minds whether it's government or private investors but also making sure that those fossil fuel companies transition and that's got to be part and parcel exactly of the governance regulation framework that that in fact you just laid out there's there's a big question in my mind though about how we actually generate that kind of leadership there are governments in the powering past coal alliance that are making a difference and indeed Antonio Gatera said to them just two weeks ago that they actually need to make sure just transition measures or people's confidence are in place but I don't see the same push on oil and gas even if anything there's a renewed set of demands with the kind of almost false profits beyond a transition period of of abatement for gas and indeed transition into hydrogen that's not green hydrogen now are these part of some transition yes but for how long what's the time frame what's the promise for people and investors of what happens then I think the people who who are watching this will really want to hear your vision on how we protect the workers right so these are people with great paying union jobs some of them probably make six figures or more obviously it's incredibly dangerous but working renewables to a certain extent doesn't present those same kind of danger issues health issues you're absolutely right Chas you can't convince people that a transition plan is a job in the energy industry but in renewables when it's paid less than half the salary when there are no equivalent benefits however we're seeing some very very good agreements not enough but some emerge now and in the US Orsted a Danish wind company is in fact a very good example they've done uh if they have an MOU with the building trades that's been supported by ourselves through the ITF ITC's Just Transition Center indeed the AFL and groups like the New York Labor Council have a terrific approach to leadership on climate and jobs and they're good agreements because they go to dealing with this question of union jobs providing wage rates a rights-based social dialogue which is really severely lacking in the US and of course respecting I should say the representation of workers and collective bargaining that's the kind of agreements we want Mitzi I would love for you to share a little bit more what you touched on as you know youth activists in the global south and what what does ending fossil fuel finance mean to you where you are? Ending fossil fuel finance means basically what Sharon just left with prioritizing people and planet over profit and I feel like for countries like the Philippines it is so clear to us why this should be something that's happening and of course with the consideration of our workers in our fishing communities our farmers everyone really development cannot leave anyone behind that is what climate justice is making sure that those most marginalized those most impacted are with us and leading the way into our just transition leading our way to a better world because what world will we have if those who are providing our food those who are the backbones of our society aren't with us right and so ending the fossil fuel industry is required like ending the finance especially the fossil fuel industry is required to have a better world we cannot develop with this rotten industry that is literally killing us today like for an example standard chartered bank which is the bank that Fridays for Future is focusing on right now they've poured at least 24 billion US dollars in the fossil fuel industry since the Paris agreement was signed and just today I think since the Paris agreement was signed there's a study that was released that the world's 60 biggest banks have poured over 3.8 trillion US dollars into fossil fuels I can't even imagine that number and I'm a mathematician imagine all those zeros like all that money into something that we know is bad for us it doesn't make sense and I don't understand why world leaders why the public scene and the private sector also don't see it the same way when it's so clear to us that this is life and death I've already said that and I will keep saying it because it's as simple as that we have to start prioritizing people's lives and we can't keep doing that if we keep thinking of five percent reduction of coal development blah blah still continuing coal developers oh we're here we're doing whatever we can we're doing this we're consulting with people like we don't need that right now we need action we need action today we need to start we should have started the just transition already and there is no excuse especially for countries in the global north to not start the the just transition workers in the global north have also been leading the way and I've talked to a few workers working unions internationally and they're also already on board for the transition so what is keeping you like really it's just greed and profit and I would say selfishness because if you knew what we experienced year after year after year last year I couldn't go home because the floods reached 12 meters or 40 feet high I had to stay in someone else's place and not know if my house was consumed by the floods if my mom was still okay if she was stranded on a rooftop this is what we're dealing with because of the fossil fuel industry and we're saying enough we have to cut the lifeline of the fossil fuel industry and really just begin our just transition because the climate crisis isn't 10 years from now it's already here today and I like to use this analogy a lot I feel like it's because maybe because adults haven't been in school for a long time so they don't understand the concept of a deadline anymore but you know someone is like me who has been like I know when the professor tells me that there's a deadline I have to reach that deadline and if it's a huge homework I can't start at night before otherwise I'm gonna crash and fail and this is a huge homework we should have done it we have our research we have everything we just need to start doing things why haven't we this is a huge homework we can't start when the runaway climate change is right in the front of our faces it'll be too late we will fail and it's not just a failing grade here it is failing society so why haven't we started Bill if you had Mitzi in class I know you'd be incredibly happy but what would you share with her and her her classmates on what the theory of change is behind ending the fossil fuel financing well very good question Tracy and of course it would be it's wonderful to get to see Mitzi um um today it and and it brings up it really brings to my mind all these questions that she's raising about time and deadlines because of course I've known so many of the people who worked out of the Philippines over the decades on this question old friends like Yebsano or Lydia Knackpill or just you know great heroes and the same in every country in every state in the union I you know we're talking with Devin thinking about all the people out of Illinois over the years who led this fight and all the you know um um if we had 50 years to solve this problem we'd be okay you know we're shifting the zeitgeist we're moving in the right direction overt climate denial got on the plane with Trump to Florida and it's not coming back you know on and on so we're making progress the problem is we're not making progress anywhere near fast enough um because our enemy here in the end is physics and physics is implacable it just does what it does and we have to meet its terms and the scientists have told us what its terms are I mean they've given us the deadline that Mitch is talking about they've said if by 2030 we haven't had a fundamental transformation of our energy systems that is cutting emissions in half by 2030 which is nine years away then the chances of meeting the targets that we said in Paris are nil so what does that mean that means that the the financial institutions the big banks and asset managers that are pumping money still into the fossil fuel industry are are cooperating in a plan to subvert everything that we know about the science of climate change they're trying to they're betting on the end of the world and trying to make money on that bet now people are rising up against it as you know some of us have worked for a decade on this fossil fuel divestment campaign which has become the largest anti-corporate campaign in history we're at about 15 trillion dollars uh uh Devin we're expecting good news from just north of you in uh Ann Arbor today so keep your eyes open but um um um the the that divestment campaign now is morphing into a real effort to go after the financiers you know the last place I went before lockdown started last year was to jail in DC uh because a few of us were ever near wood from the hip hop caucus and I and a few others were arrested in the lobby of the chase bank nearest the nation's capital because chase bank is the world's largest funder of fossil fuels they've put a quarter trillion dollars into the fossil fuel industry since the paris climate accords they didn't need donald trump to subvert and sabotage them they were willing to do it themselves and that's insane I mean it's literally insane because uh uh I mean even if all you cared about in the world was money well you know there's not going to be any money once once everybody's flooded out and burned out and everything else I mean the short term ism of it all is just incredible and and you know we're not here to figure out whether I guess today whether you know capitalism is uh what we you know but I gotta say you know at the moment capitalism at least the way it's practiced on wall street um is is is raising the temperature of the planet it's melting the ice in the Arctic it's it is undermining everything that's the basis of of any kind of working economy or civilization so at some level I don't get it I mean I really don't get it these guys are supposed to be smart they're supposed to be analyzing everything all the time they're supposed to have spreadsheets that you know uh to the end of the earth and you know on and on and on but what the hell I mean and so it is time now for people to double and triple this pressure on these guys and if we do then some good will come of it you know we gotta pressure our political systems all the time and that's really important and we're making some progress in Washington but Washington moves slowly at best like most political capitals and Washington doesn't run the world anymore we're mostly better uh you know um um wall street for better or for worse mostly for worse still kind of does run the world and the one thing to be said for it is it moves fast if something happens it chase bank or black rock or something it's reflected in every stock market in the world in a matter of hours so please people keep this push on go after these guys every way you can they're vulnerable and it's within the realm of possibility that they will shift because we can put enough pressure on them they're not like exon chase bank isn't exon's going to fight to the last bridge it only knows how to do one thing dig stuff up and burn it but chase bank makes plenty of money off fossil fuels but it's only five or six percent of their business they've got other things they can do too so we've got to make them put this close that part of the deal book and and and and get the planet some kind of fighting chance here you know because you know my focus um and a new consensus we focus a lot on you know public finance public investments things like that um but to Bill's point when when the people are pushing private capital away from fossil fuels that not only takes money out of the pipeline so to speak for fossil fuels but it creates an environment for people in government to follow right and see that it's okay to do these things and it's okay to do these regulations right because the banks and these other investors are already moving away because y'all have pushed them away so that that there's there's two things being accomplished there right there's a systemic um um concern that's being addressed there it opens a channel for timid folks in government right who need to be replaced but it opens a channel for timid folks in government uh to go ahead and follow your leadership right and and and having that vector of impact is is direly uh important and critical but to speak to the you know the Green New Deal and FDR and the New Deal the public imagination around the New Deal era actually not only includes all the great you know government innovation that happened in the New Deal per se but it also includes the World War II mobilization right and so that was when the US government spent tons of public money to build an entire industry unfortunately it was an industry for death but it built an entire industry and retooled America's productive capacity to help fight fascism abroad right the question is can we retool America's productive capacity right i'm talking about domestically the US uh here from my perspective can we retool America's productive capacity to wean ourselves off of fossil fuels and create a sustainable economy the answer is yes the answer is yes but what we're seeing is uh there is a economic dogma that has constrained our ability to even imagine that possibility look at what's happening with COVID right we think that um you know intellectual property overrides the ability for human beings to move around or to be vaccinated that is the throttle don't be fooled y'all intellectual property rights are the throttle right now for us getting our vaccines let's let's I can say that over and over again but ad nauseam that's the real choke point there and to be clear don't be fooled about this either the US government at least has the power to take that intellectual property for the public benefit so the reality is that our government the instrument of we the people isn't is incredibly powerful and so again we have to push it seize it seize control over it and make it work for us so this idea of government being inefficient the way they try to defund the post office and make it ineffective I just started getting mail on the same day yesterday you know I got mail from January but on Monday right wild stuff right but that's deliberate that is absolutely deliberate so this idea of you know getting folks to see government as ineffective inefficient slow is deliberate our government is powerful it is our instrument of we the people and it can do incredible things when we lead it to do those incredible things again new deal world war two mobilization that error that created prosperity for certain people in America we have a blueprint for what is possible and things that haven't been tried before for moving to a sustainable economy and nations of the north leading and doing our part to correct the harms that we have put onto this planet from the past so we have an obligation to move a lot faster and to be aggressive and bold in this time we owe it to our brothers and sisters and all others across the world particularly because we led the way on causing this harm like converting all of that into grassroots activism what what vision can you share with folks on how to move people to change their minds on ways our government works change them change minds on these these fundamental misbeliefs that we are not empowered to affect change especially for the youth I think it's a lot about showing people that it's okay to hope hope for something better hope for something that we deserve a better world shouldn't be radical the things we're asking the things that we're saying that we want a just transition we want a future that where no one is left behind a future where there's development for all a zero we we want a future where we can all just live and people will say that this is unrealistic people will say that this is radical but it's not why are we compromising on our lives again I will keep going back to that point people are already dying and suffering because of the climate crisis and that's only going to get worse this is a life in that situation so we need to get imaginative we need to get creative and we need to break free from what we've already what's being taught to us systemically essentially like there are so many movies where I talk about I talk to my friend about this a lot where it's so much easier for movies to show the end of the world than the end of our current system like we have so many movies about zombie apocalypse why was there a zombie apocalypse because there's a health pandemic outbreak because of some scientists doing something for their profit or or you know we've had a few climate changing disaster movies and it's always just the end of the world why can't we imagine something beyond the current profit-oriented wasteful greedy system that we have we've already seen that this system isn't working for us that the COVID-19 pandemic has shown us that our systems a lot of our systems across the world are not capable of handling a crisis it won't be capable of handling the climate crisis either so we have to allow ourselves to hope we have to allow ourselves to dream of a better future and fight for that dream relentlessly with passion with no fear and I will I'm not gonna lie and say that I'm a fearless activist and I'm always brave and scared to have the typhoons banging on your doors and also the risk of having police bang on your doors with the Philippines being one of the most dangerous countries in the world for defenders and activists but we know that the risks that we're facing now is nothing like the risk of the climate crisis once runaway climate change starts and so we have to do this from a place of love from a place that's sustainable from a place that goes back always to the people always to the ones who are most marginalized we get the youth as much as we would like to think that we can do this alone we can't do this alone we need everyone on board we need especially those who are most marginalized we need to listen to our farmers our fishing communities our workers our indigenous peoples we need a multi-sectoral movement because everyone is at risk here not just the future of the youth but the future of the of the human human species this is literally life and death and we have to keep going and we have to really believe that a better world is possible. What is your greatest hope I'm inspired by what Mitzi just shared uh so but yeah feel free to add on to what you said Mitzi, Bill, Daman what's your greatest hope in in this fight against climate change? For me what gives me hope is knowing that I have a friend in every continent well except Antarctica not yet we'll find someone there fighting for the same thing as I am that is mind-blowing to me this is literally a global movement and we are getting more and more connected and we are getting more and more intersectional that gives me so much hope with so many people on board fighting for climate justice in a better world how is victory not possible I feel like it is inevitable we will get there that's what gives me hope and what I'm hoping for again is the chance for a better future for a sustainable future for a safe society. I even know some people in Antarctica who are working on this so um um look my one of my hopes is all the work that we're doing is starting to pay off 10 years ago Exxon was the biggest company in the world now it's not even the biggest energy company in the world uh next to era energy a florida-based renewables company passed them in market cap last year so they're getting weaker uh they're not going away but every dollar they lose is that makes them not much politically weaker and that much less able to wreck policy initiatives like the ones that Devon people are working on all the time so you know there's days when I get a little despairing and all I can you know the only thing that keeps me going is how much trouble can we cause the bad guys and we're causing them lots of trouble so that's good uh my hope uh kind of riffing off of Mitzi's point of why is existence and uh why is existence and the right to live radical is that uh everything that we're talking about is common sense and I don't think common sense ever goes out of fashion it might not be in power but damn it we got common sense and I know that might not be it's not sexy but this is just super it's just common sense and that gives me a lot of hope we're right and the world and the people in power will catch up or we replace them and that's all happening at the same time and it's wonderful to be part of this this growing movement in the the theme of of hope and visioning where do you all see the climate movement moving and how will it be moving I mean young people are completely organized and on board and working hard now we need to get old people uh fully engaged here there's so many of them and so much of the world's money is in their bank accounts that they're a kind of political and financial block to change and so let's when we think about diversity let's make sure we're thinking about it in lots of dimensions and calling on you know you know we need you know we need uh Mitzi's crew calling out to their grandparents and making sure that they're fully engaged because they're about to be people who leave this world in worse shape than they found it and that's not a good legacy right right so you know I was going to jump in on this question first because um I I feel like I am a relative newcomer to the climate movement because my focus was economics I was doing local organizing against you know uh like in Chicago trying to create opportunities with young people and communities you know community development it's a whole mess and just really fighting at that level and I came to see um that the same dogmas and structures I was struggling against just on just having a right of having a decent life and be able to make a living for one's family in a safe community that the same blocks that I was up against um undoing those blocks opens the door and is the key indeed to solving the climate crisis right to solving poverty and all the other issues and so I see a diversity and approach and perspective what I love is that we're in a moment now where people are seeing the climate space as something they should be thinking about and adding to their particular fight whether it be worker rights whether it be racial and economic justice and what have you and so it's been beautiful to be um you know I would say I was concerned about climate but it was not the thing that I woke up and thought about every day and now I think about climate in the context of the way to build a sustainable economy is the way to build a fair and just and racially inclusive economy as well and so that combination and and and having conversations with folks who are getting their head around what climate means for their fight and how this is all connected right uh that has been something that I'm been very excited to be a part of and to see happening because I got pulled into this in that way where it's a big fight I think everybody has a stake I'll add also um you know people who are accountants seeing that they have a role to play you know uh and all the other um things that you can do everybody has a stake in this fight and and I love that at this point I don't think the climate movement is shifting to say it like that is to take away from the organizers for pushing the climate movement to become more intersectional to become more diverse to become a truly climate justice fight so as the mon said climate justice means making sure that everyone's struggles are tied together because the climate crisis is the thing that will affect everyone and not proportionally those who are already impacted by the existing socioeconomic crises of the world are the ones who are also most impacted by the climate crisis and that's why our view of everything has to be very intersectional you know we we've all got to be in this together and people and the planet with a mentality around shared prosperity absolutely have to be at the center of our plans for recovery and I'll leave you with one last statistic there's been about 14 trillion dollars spent for ready in uh supporting business workers health etc so expanding the social contract through the the pandemic how much of it's been spent on actually making sure that that that the recovery is going to be indeed a sustainable cover is like this much so we've got a lot of work to do to build even as we deal with the last of the of the pandemic issues and they're serious we also need to look at how we build recovery and resilience for us that's a new social contract but all those jobs have to be climate friendly jobs and we're not going to get it if governments aren't actually looking at the three things that Damon actually raised one is what's their contribution the second is what's the electricity frame and the third is how do you manage governance in the interests of people and planet I am just a gratitude for for getting to spend some time with you all thank you so much and I hope I get to see you again somewhere out here in the internet universe but more especially I hope that we will all be able to get to see each other our family and friends in person and so wishing you all continued good health to you and your families stay safe stay hydrated and this is a global just recovery 350 sending out love and peace and thanking you all and please have a wonderful day global just recovery gathering