 Good morning to you. We're back with the breakfast in Plastivia, Africa. It's a beautiful Friday morning, last day for us this weekend. I'm looking forward to the weekend. My name is Kofi Bartels. And I am Messi Ibukbo. It's good to have you join us this morning. All right. Messi indeed are looking for our conversations with our guests this morning. The election is a fast approaching and Nigerians serve just a couple of days to get their permanent voter cards. It expires on Sunday and the deadline elapses on Sunday. ILEC will be on, you know, all the offices of ILEC to get the voter card. So we encourage everybody, you know, to go out to get those cards. We know that the ILEC officials, staff, even if you have ILEC staff will be working their socks off from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. So encouraging every single person out there to please, please, please, please go and get your permanent voter card if you had already registered to vote. All right. And it's exactly on the 5th of February 2023. Don't sit back at home and say, ILEC is going to extend it. We know them. That's what they do know. Go and get your card. All right. Let's start off with a top trending segment. This is a lot to look at, but we can only squeeze in maybe three of the top trending stories and things in Nigeria into our conversation this morning. We start off with Oshun State. Oshun State has really been in the eye of the storm as far as politics is concerned. It's been a really hot battle there, you know, and you know what happened with the election. You know how the PDP Guardship candidate won that election talking about Governor Delakey, David O's uncle and Shino Rambo's father, the Dancing Senator, who became the Dancing Governor. Me would have asked if he was going to dance after he lost the election petition tribunal to his rival of the PDP's candidate and former Governor, Boega Oyetola. All right. But the Dancing Governor kept dancing. In fact, one of the words used in court was that he was dancing to Boega and he showed them that he would continue dancing to Boega. The news is that the Supreme Court yesterday dismissed an appeal by the People's Democratic Party seeking to restore the nullification. This is not a tribunal situation. Tribunal's ruling has nothing to do with that. But this is a different seat seeking to restore the nullification of the participation of Boega Oyetola, the PDP, and his deputy, Ben Victor Labia, his running mate in that July 16, 2022, governorship election. Milord, the Honourable Justice and Mechanic of the Federal High Court in Apuja in a judgment on September 2020, a recall had nullified the participation of Oyetola and Alabi in the governorship election on grounds that their nomination forms were endorsed by an acting chairman of APC, who was also a serving governor of Yoruba State, Mai Malabuni, and luckily for the two gentlemen, Oyetola and his running mate, Justice, and which his judgment was set aside by the Court of Appeal in a judgment in December last year, which enabled him to participate in the election. Of course, the PDP appealed to the highest appellate court in the land. The final bus stop, as far as appeals are concerned, the Supreme Court. And this is a judgment that has been delivered. The limit by five member panel at the Supreme Court led by Milord, the Honourable Justice, Senterson Weize, which held that the PDP or the appeal by the PDP was without merit and directed the lawyer to the PDP, Kenri Ogungu Miju, S.A.N., to do the right thing, which was to withdraw the suit. So there you have it. The eyes are on what the tribunal will say. The process is so far. Well, so you know, I think that there's a lot of misinterpretation. I think that Nigerians, a lot of people do not understand that this is a pre-election matter. So this is actually, you know, everything is actually happening at the same time where there's a tribunal, you know, there's a tribunal case and then the tribunal has given her verdict. That's still a lot. But I think that the spinner mix-up, if you look at the thoughts of Nigerians, it's a pre-election matter, a matter that has been ongoing prior to this time. And if you look at the context of the matter, it was that, you know, he was suing, the PDP was suing for the, what's it called again? I mean, whether he has the capacity or yetola had the capacity to contest in an election. However, the interpretation is that, you know, a delegate cannot, however, you know, sue. He doesn't have the look of standing. That's what, you know, legal practitioners will call it to sue him because he was not part of the primaries in the sense that primaries are party affairs. So it was, I mean, it's an internal issue, right? So, and there was also a ruling party this time that he was qualified, you know, as a back and forth with the court and what have you. And then there was a judgment that was given that he was qualified, you know, to go ahead. So yes, the reason why, you know, this has actually come out, the Supreme Court has sacked that or dismissed the case entirely is that the other party, that's the PDP, has no look of standing because, however, Adelike was not injured. He was not part of the primaries. If he was part of the APC and he contested, then he probably would have had the look of standing to, you know, sue him. And that's, you know, the decision of the court. But I think that there's been, you know, the misinterpretation and understanding that this is exactly, you know, the tribunal case and I had nothing to do with tribunal. Everyone's expecting that the PDP has time to appeal the case. I mean, the, you know, the tribunal's judgment, right, go to the appeal court and that's what it should be. However, there are also a lot of things surrounding the tribunal judgment or, you know, the statement that was being put out in the sense that if you look at the judges, I mean, out of the judges, there's no unism in terms of the judgment that were delivered. So you had different versions. Some people were saying, oh, overvoting, a certain judge did overvote in another talked about different issues. And as such, you can't come to conclusion. But it is what it is, was still, I mean, fingers across. It's only expected that there will be an appeal and that's what it is. So yes, I think that, you know, that whole back and forth has been going on. It's a pre-election matter. It's been ongoing and there's been a ruling prior to this time. If you look at the case involved, there's nothing there. So the tribunal is still a different entirely. And everyone is hoping that the PDP would take the route, which is, you know, go to the appeal court. And that's it. So, but we have to quickly move on from that to our next uptrending this morning. And that would be on the issue of the Naira. It's been a lot for Nigerians. So you need to have a special Naira segment. We have a montage draw for it. I mean, you are very correct. So the CBN has said that she is committed to ensuring, I really don't know why I have to always say she, you know, whenever you're referring to entities or whatever. I'm not correct, right? We're giving, we're giving, that is what you... No, sir. I mean, the CBN has said that, you know, she's committed to ensuring the new... You guys, you need to stick everything, everything can be she. We don't even call it he. No, it's not that. Well, you know how it is that you want to reference to Nigeria? We don't, you don't, you don't use he. It's not really... You know, you know how it is, you never thought that if you were going to say Nigeria, Ha, Nigeria Ha, you know, you call her. No problem. So, I mean, I mean, I'm just saying that this is a good one. Please, please, please, please. So, well, you know, the conversation is ongoing. To be very honest, right, what she will face is there's no money. There's no cash almost anyway. Now, even if you're going to find cash, because if you go to the bank, some of the bank or the banks that you have, including the one that's very closest to us, I mean, like, very close to us, you can't find the old notes. Even at the counter, you can't even find, you know, the new notes, even at the eight o'clock. And so, I mean, there's no money. Cosirara, there's no cash. That's the truth. And, you know, there's too many injunctions that's been given. So, the CBN is assuring Nigerians that all the new narrow notes will be available for all of them. New narrow notes will be available for all, including myself and fingers across. If you go to the POS operators, you probably have to pay. So, for instance, you want to take 2,000 ERA, you'll be asked to pay 400 coffee. So, you want to pay, you want to take out 2,000 ERA from your account. Then after that 2,000 ERA, you have to pay 400 ERA. Except for what's the rationale behind that? And let me tell you that we buy this money. Madam, we buy this money. We buy the money. So, if you don't want, who is selling the money? How did you buy the money? What should you buy the money? Yes, but the information is that the central bank of Nigeria has made a U-turn. And it's saying that non-Nigerians can, the deposit money banks can commence payment of new narrow notes over the counter. Which is, I think we should just say, today is the day of joy. No, no, I'm not sure that we should be very excited immediately. I mean, it's a relief for a lot of people, may I say? No, a relief in the sense that you want to talk about the injunctions. I mean, it's not the first time you have the CBN given directive. It's not a problem. We should be excited. But people have to know the information, which is that the central bank of Nigeria has directed deposit money banks to commence payment of the redesigned narrow notes over the counter with a limit, a payout limit of 20,000 Naira. A daily payout limit of 20,000 Naira. If we are happy, I think mercy is because it'll be a relief to a lot of people. Yes. Could you let's quickly take a look at this tape right now, if you can roll it? We have continued payment. Why not put those ones behind, put those ones behind? No, but next time. Well, so that's the track right there. It felt like there was also checks and balances, inspection of these banks to ensure that all is done in accordance. I mean, it was also reported that 30 million, if I'm not mistaken, was allocated to banks, and that's what they expected to pay out at each time. But that's not it. So two and one is that the CBN had said that she was committed to ensuring new narrow notes reached the hands of Nigerians as soon as possible. And that's in collaboration with the EFCC and I CPC. So, yes, the CBN has been carrying out branch spot checks on ATMs or the banks. And that's what you saw on that clip. However, there's also been a directive. That's what Kofi had mentioned earlier on as directed that the CBN has directed commercial banks to start paying redesigned narrow notes to customers over the counter. Yes, they said that this is in order to help alleviate the challenges that Nigerians are experiencing with getting access to new notes, as well as reduce the cues at the ATMs nationwide. These are statements. So it feels like, hey, there's a relief, but there might also be different questions over time. So how this can become, because we know that there's been several directives, the CBN crowd. Yes, indeed. Mercy, you've said it all. This is coming from Gordon and Mayfield, the central bank governor. There was a statement posted on the CBN website yesterday and signed by the director of corporate communications who has had his work cut out for him recently. Because anytime the CBN governor goes, makes a statement, he has to clarify. But it was signed by Osita Umani Sobi. He noted that the new directive would address the challenges of cues, experience of commercial, various commercial banks across the country. I'm sure they've seen the videos. I think they share these videos on WhatsApp a little, because anytime sometimes when they may feel they talk, especially recently, as a governor of the central bank of Nigeria, he referred to some videos of people spraying money and all that. So I think people send these videos to him so he can see. So they're saying that Nigerians can only withdraw 20,000 naira over the counter, 20,000 naira over the counter, a daily payout limit. And this is quite an interesting development. But what the central bank of Nigeria is saying is that they will also continue to collaborate with the Nigeria police. We saw something on a screen. They've been making sure the police, EFCC, ICPC, they have also started the federal Indian Revenue Service, the Nigerian Financial Intelligence Unit, to prosecute abuses and sellers of the naira, people who are selling the naira. So I don't know if they'll categorize or put the POS agents in that category of those who are selling the naira of those who are selling naira. Because some of these POS agents are giving out performing services and charging the commission of as high as 30% for cashing naira. So 5,000 naira, we charge a thousand naira for that. That is too high. Okay, that is too high. Now, this is what the statement said, that the central bank of Nigeria has observed with great concern the activities of persons who sell the newly designed or redesigned banknotes and those who flagrantly abuse the legal tender by hurting or hurling wards of naira notes in the air and stamping the currency at social functions. I mean, I don't complain. Somebody hurls. You know when they say you're hurling something or someone, it means you carried something large and through. If you want to hurl it, that'd be happy. I wouldn't complain. But they're saying that they're frowning at that, you know, stamping them. You know, let's say you stamp something. Somebody stamps a word of cash on your face. I don't know if you tell them that a CBN says they shouldn't give it back to them. But that's what they're saying. Now, they said also the CBN through the statement that quote, we equally noticed the queues at ATMs across the country and the upward trend in the cases of people stocking and aggregating the newly introduced banknotes they seriously obtained from ATMs is blah, blah, blah, blah. So they're talking about laws, you know, and they're also talking about people selling the naira, talking about people spraying the naira, people stamping the currency, you know, and all that on people's heads. And they're saying that section 21, sub-3 of the CBN at 2007 frowns at this, you know, frowns at this. It is a crime, okay? It states that quote, this is the act now, section 21, sub-3 of the CBN at 2007, spraying off, dancing or marching on the naira, stepping on it, or any note issued by the central bank during social occasions, otherwise, howsoever shall constitutional abuse and defacing of the naira or such note and shall be punishable by fines and imprisonment of both, okay? That's what they're talking about. Now, the CBN also stated, and this is quite interesting, section 21, sub-4, which states quote, it shall be an offense punishable under subsection one of this section for any person to hawk, sell, or otherwise trade in the naira coins and notes or any note issued by the bank. So does this mean that those who are, you know, providing point of sales, devices, and services to the public to be able to cash, cash, are they breaking this, frowning this rule because the charge, a percentage, a service charge, you know, it used to be, is it a 1% of the amount, you know, now a single charge has 5%, 10%, you know, so that's really, really high. So what I'll finally add to this message is that, for me, it was a surprise that the central bank of Nigeria had given a directive that over-the-counter withdrawals of the new naira coins should be stopped. It was a surprise because one of the limits they placed was taking of the naira over-the-counter, you know, revised cash withdrawal policies. That's number two. You had daily limits of 100,000 naira initially and 500,000 naira weekly withdrawal limits, all right? Which later was increased and you could take a weekly withdrawal of one million or five million. That's for individuals and corporate organizations. Now, if those limits are to be adhered to, it's hard for people to adhere to them because people need the cash, but in deference to the CBN's policy, people say, okay, we're going to do it. They said 100,000, 500,000 people made noise. Now they increased it. People are saying, okay, we'll have a meeting point. Now, if I'm a businessman and I need money, okay, to do my business, and I go to the ATM, which will give me only 20,000 naira a day, all right? How am I going to survive? How am I going to do business? Okay, so while trying to tell Nigerians to adhere to a particular policy, which is a cash withdrawal limits, it was always going to be hard for business owners or families to survive with only 20,000 naira cash a day for those who rely on cash transactions. And I think it was, for me, it was always the fittest thing to say you can't go to the bank and withdraw the new naira over the counter. I mean, so it means that as an individual, I can't get more than 20,000 naira a day. Okay, what if I need to use 50,000 naira in a day? You transfer or you use the app. Don't tell me that. Don't tell me that. Merci. I'm not the one telling you that. That's what it is. Yes, I see you as a briefly, you know, I mean, I mean, you see the expression you had. Merci. Let me remind you your classic example. You have no idea what's going on. Because you ask yourself, with all the qualifications of these guys who are the Syrians, so many of them, you say how they trip to the National Assembly to meet with the committee. How can you say in a country for how many weeks now that people cannot withdraw the new notes and nobody wants to go to the bank to make and withdraw old notes because probably the people you're doing the business with cannot or not accept the old notes. And you're telling us that we cannot withdraw new notes over the count. So where are we going to get them from? So for the period of extension, don't forget that, I mean, we probably would have been over this by this time. Today is the third of February. So the period of extension is a period of, I mean, it means that that also is a legal tender. But the challenges were faced with at the time up until the 10th. Now, when you get to the 10th, however, it's expected that you will still be able to swap the, I mean, go to the bank and exchange the cash, but it's no longer a legal tender. So my point is, I mean, it's still a legal tender up until this moment. That's what that's the reason for the extension. But you ask yourself, why is it that you don't even have the new notes and the old notes not available? The apex bank is blaming the commercial banks. And we have seen that people go to parties. This they have the note. How come you have the purest operators having what I'm talking about is a different situation. Okay. Yes. Now, okay, yes, it's a spring and all that is there. I need 50,000 Naira immediately. Can I get that 50,000 Naira from the ATM machine or from the ATM, rather? The answer is no. Can I get that 50,000 Naira from the banking hall? The answer is no, because the CBN has said you can't give money. Even the limits, the police, they are even saying we can't even withdraw up to that limit. Okay. Now, you're telling me that I need to take my old money to the bank to change it for new money. And then now, Merci, you're saying, and maybe they are saying too, that well, if I need a lot of money now, I should go back and take the old Naira. When rather, if I go to the bank because they want to take the old Naira out of the system, they should be giving me new notes. So if I need 50,000 Naira, for instance, 100,000 Naira, 1 million Naira, okay, in a week, as an individual. And I go to the bank and they give me old notes. How will the old notes get out of the system so that by the deadline we have more news into the system? Okay. So it's, it's, it's, it's, I'm just trying to just. No, I'm not saying, I'm not saying you're saying, I'm asking the CBN. So no more, no more. When you want to introduce change, change must be gradual, okay. It's something called change management. It's a process. And you must be consistent. You cannot say you want to, you only change something, but you are doing the old thing. Okay. What it is, means is that people will go, for instance, want to get 50,000 Naira over the counter. They'll give you 20,000 Naira new notes. All right. And 10,000, 30,000 Naira old notes is what this, this means. Okay. They'll give it 20,000 Naira new notes and then 30,000 Naira old notes. How are we going to take the old notes out of the system? So the policy inconsistency, the policy U terms, the policy somersaults by the CBN is, is, is worrying. You said you're going through what do you call it again, place the limit of 500,000 Naira for individuals and a million Naira for companies. Little people made noise. You changed it. You said you're going to end the use of the old Naira by 31st of January. People made noise. You changed it. You said people can withdraw money over the counter to a certain limit. You again now came back and said, yes, you can withdraw the money, but even though we want you to change the old Naira for new Naira, we'll give you old still. You can't take new Naira. Now you said, okay, you can take new Naira, but only 28,000 Naira. Why can't we have a straight policy from the CBN well thought out, and then we can know this is what to do. You know what Messi is sending mixed signals, and also he shows that these guys don't know what they're doing. Because if you know what you're doing, you have projected, analyzed, and thought out every scenario to come up with the best decision not to be changing your mind. When you are changing your mind, and the Bible says a double-minded mind is unstable in all its ways, it's an unstable thing. You change your mind. It's okay. I want to drink a drink. You know what I'm saying? No, no. I want to drink Fanta. The soma salts are too much. So you also need to know that don't forget that this is not the first time we're having the Naira not being redesigned, introduced, we've had over time. Have you ever seen this kind of drama? No, we haven't. So my point is, this is not the first time we've had different, I mean prior to the same currency we're spending right now, the old notes that we now refer to as the old notes. We've had times where we've gone through transition. Has there ever been this sort of drama? And you know, because naturally this is the first time... We've never had this sort of drama. Coffee, it just faces out. You won't notice it. Yeah, you won't notice it. Thank you, ma'am. You know, so you bring the money. I mean, if you introduce a new currency or a new note, you're using the new note. Automatically, it just goes. So what happens is if you bring the new old note to the system and it's been collected, whoever collects it, you're getting the new one, whatever it is that you're getting, it keeps recycling. The system itself was designed to just, you know, help itself not, you know, get to that point. So there's no need for, oh, we are stopping the old notes. The old notes will just go on its own. So how did we do it at that time and what were we doing at this point in time? But Coffee, we don't have time. We have to leave that and unfortunately we can't. Yesterday, one of our staff was telling me something that caught my attention. He says he's afraid of what? People lose money. If I have a purse and you look inside, you see the new 200 Nair notes. You might think it's 10 Nair. You see the 1000 Nair notes. You might think it's 50 Nair. And it's possible some people may just blindly, especially its market. It happened to me. Yeah, it happened to you. Just give out that 50 Nair to 1000. I wasn't sure if it was 500 because, you know, I think 500 looks like 200. 20 Nair? No, not necessary. It looks like 200. So I wasn't sure if it was 500. Oh, okay. So I saw that 500 and I saw another one. So I thought it was like 700. But I didn't know that was 1000. Yeah, so be careful. But it's okay. We will definitely get there. You know, we're not saying democracy. We're developing. Please, please, please. That's what give us some excuses for luck up. We should excellent in it. And I think, I love something you said. Previous times, when they introduced new notes, new designs, you don't even notice. You don't notice. So you place withdrawal limits on or across all channels. People can't even use those channels. What are we talking about? Merci. One life, my dad was alive or blessed memory, may search CJ Bartels. Okay. The many times I'll take him to the accident and emergency surgery, you know, when he began to get ill and needed treatment. Sometimes he goes to government hospitals, teaching hospitals, private hospitals. You don't have the POS are working. And I use the public hospital because of the care he needed. Maybe we had a lot of fun, the departments had to cash, look for money, even if it's midnight, when we take him to the hospital, people are being taken to the hospital on emergency. The easiest place to go to be a private hospital because of the cost of healthcare. Okay. A public hospital. They go to a general hospital, a teaching hospital. They may not have the POS. Please bring cash. What do you do? Well, it is what we're faced with. I mean, you can't begin to count the losses. You can't count what people are going through. You can't even count how many persons would have lost their lives in this period, you know, following this policy. But like I mentioned earlier on, whether it is an excuse for us to continue the way we are, but I know that we're a nascent democracy, and we're growing, we're developing, and we'll definitely get there. Stay with us when we return. It will be time for us to go through the papers this morning. We'll call it off the press. Good morning.