 Good afternoon everyone or good morning depending on where you are in the world or good evening. My name is Lisa Marie Blaschke and I'm Eden vice president and I would like to welcome you to this last day of the European Distance Learning Week. And we've got a wonderful session here for you today with a great host of speakers. Just to tell you a little bit about European Distance Learning Week we are putting this on together with USDLA together with their National Distance Learning Week. And today's session that we'll be presenting is called Digital Skills in Teaching and Learning. Are we on the right track? And the session will last for an hour and a half. Some of our speakers will not be able to stay for the entire time so we will be having questions directly after the presentations for a few minutes. And the presentation will be recorded. We have a number of wonderful speakers for you today and I think you're really going to enjoy this session. Our first speaker today is Deidre Hudson who will be talking about tackling the digital skills gap in the EU. And then Diana Andone who will be talking about how they're doing it in Romania in terms of addressing the digital skills gap and developing digital skills. Olga Dorner who is from Hungary will be talking about getting connected and enhancing digital competencies. And then Mance Giuté and of course I'm not very good at that name. I'm terrible with Spanish names. We'll be talking about digital skills in teaching and learning giving examples from Spain. And then Margarita Teressevicena is going to be talking about innovations and challenges in technology enhanced learning and some teacher perspectives. There's a lot of topics here addressing digital skills and developing them and addressing the gap not just within at the EU level but you know specific case studies from individual countries. I think you're really going to enjoy this session. Just to give you some background on what we've done so far this week in terms of webinars for European distance learning week is we've had a session on quality. One on evolving open education. We also had a panel session on Monday and yesterday there was a session on validation and recognition. So if you weren't able to attend those sessions we encourage you to go to the Eden website and check out the recordings. And so without further ado I would like to hand the floor over to Deidre who will be talking to us about how the EU is tackling the digital skills gap. So Deidre. Deidre Hudson here in Brussels. I'm afraid I had some technical problems earlier so I wasn't able to give my presentation. So as promised I'm back. We sorted out the technical issues. So I'm just going to take 10 minutes really to run through my top which is on the digital skills gap in Europe. I'm from Ireland originally and I live in Belgium. I work for the European Commission DG Education Culture Youth and Sport. And what I'm working on really is the transformation of education. So how education is changing with all of the digital revolution that we're seeing in our economy and in society. So there's two main issues I'm working on with my colleagues. The skills that we need for society and the jobs market that are changing because of digital transformation. And also technology and how it's used in and for education to improve teaching and learning in Europe. So really those two issues. And today I'm going to talk more about the first one. So I came across this week actually a program in Ireland which is a four part series on digital skills called Making Ireland Click. And I just wanted to start with that because I think it's really nice that the whole digital skills issue has reached prime time television in the country. And this is all because of David Putnam who's a filmmaker from England living in Ireland. He's there in the bottom right picture in the middle. And David is the digital champion in Ireland. So he's doing a lot of work in Ireland to really raise awareness on the need for digital skills. As you know in Ireland we have a very strong and growing tech sector. So it's becoming quite an urgent thing to get people online. But you know this isn't just a labor market issue. This is also about participation in society more widely. So that's just started on Irish television. We just had the first of four episodes which I think is a nice example. So yeah to the statistics I mean I'm sure all of you know and you've heard from the speakers earlier about the digital skills gap in Europe. It's a particularly worrying and pressing problem that so many people have and know or very few digital skills. Of course this varies widely between countries. But I've just given you the statistics here and the red you see the average for the EU. So a little less than half of the European population having no or low digital skills. So this is a labor market issue. But as I said it's more wider than that. This is really an issue of digital inclusion. So we need to have these basic digital skills really to be an active citizen in everyday life increasingly so in fact. So turning to the labor market again we know that there's a major problem with a skilled gap in ICT professionals in the EU. I've broken it down per country here on the table but we forecast by 2020 that we'll be looking for 750,000 ICT professionals in Europe that we can't find. So that obviously is a big a big policy challenge for us really. So as I said 45 percent of people in Europe having no or no digital skills 37 percent of the labor force having very few digital skills. We also know that jobs are changing rapidly and our predictions are that 90 percent of jobs will actually require some level of digital skills whatever your sector. Whether you're in health or agriculture or manufacturing and we also know that many jobs are and will change and many of the jobs we know today won't exist in a few years. So this is all very kind of pressing issues as policymakers that we're trying to deal with. And we know the reality for business to who are finding it increasingly difficult to recruit ICT professionals again with variations across Europe. I just wanted to say a word or two as well about the gender gap in technology in the ICT sector. We know that women are seriously underrepresented in the technology industry in Europe making up only around 18 percent of the workforce again of a worrying figure. And we know that women are less likely than men to study in a field related to technology if you take 1000 women with degrees in Europe only 29 of them will hold a degree in an ICT related field. And we know that there's fewer women also in management in the tech sector compared to other industries only around 90 percent of workers in the ICT industry have female managers. So turning to the policy responses will just to say that the digital single market is one of the main priorities for the for the commission. And what this means is basically breaking down barriers to to maximize the potential of digitalization. And that has a strong skills or human capital component as well as many other things that we're doing in the commission concerning connectivity and broadband. It also has a strong skills component also in education and training. It is a priority for us to in our framework which is called education and training 2020. We have six priority areas and in fact all six relate to digital skills. But I've highlighted two in particular the first one being about relevant and highly quality and high quality skills and competences. And the third one being about opening up education innovating in our education systems by fully embracing the digital era. We also have in terms of policy documents some of you may know the skills agenda for Europe which was adopted back in June this year. And what is the skills agenda. It's really a policy statement by the commission to be followed up with a series of very concrete actions to improve both the quality and relevance of skills and skills acquisition in Europe to make skills more visible and comparable as well across borders. And to improve what we know about skills and skills intelligence and to improve the information we have to make people make better career choices. So that's a policy document. I just pulled out a quote from it this morning when I was preparing my slides Europe faces a basic skills challenge. People need a minimum level of basic skills including numeracy literacy and basic digital skills to access good jobs and participate fully in society. So I think just to draw your attention to the fact that digital skills are really seen as a basic skill that people need to take part in the labor market and in society more widely. So as I said this is followed up by 10 actions which will be rolling out this year and next year. I'm not going to I don't have time to run through all 10. This is a sketch from a recent conference that we had. But just maybe to pull out one thing there if you look at number two on the graph you'll see key competences for lifelong learning. So some of you may know that we're revising the Commission's 2006 communication on key competences which does include indeed digital skills, entrepreneurial skills. So we're really having a look at that and trying to review it and to modernize it and why is this important? Well these key competences have helped shape a lot of the curricula in Europe and have been used as inspiration for a lot of member states. As you know we don't have any regulatory or legislative power when it comes to education. The European Commission can really be a convener bringing the member states together to share best practice and giving policy guidance through communications like on key competences. I'll talk in a moment about number four there which is digital skills and jobs coalition. I'm going to say that the skills agenda is there as a policy statement and it's been followed up by a series of concrete actions. So I'm going to run through five things that we're doing really. The first one being our cooperation with EU member states and also many partner organizations including Eden. So we have an expert group on digital skills and competences and Eden is a very active member of this group. So the group is actually civil servants from ministries of education working on digital skills and ICT. And we have stakeholder organizations like Eden, like the Lifelong Learning Platform, like EU and SchoolNet which also brings together education ministries. So what does this group do? We meet around every two months either in Brussels or in the member states to look at issues around digital skills. Recently we had two-day meeting in Finland on coding and computational thinking agendas and looking at what the Finns are doing, what other countries are doing to introduce computational thinking on the curriculum in schools. We also had a meeting in Hamburg on bring your own device policies and what to do or not to do, helping schools implement a bring your own device policy. And we also have plenary sessions in Brussels where we look at different topics recently with learning analytics. So this is a really nice community, a real incubator of ideas and we share and work together very closely. And that group runs kicked off around eight months ago and will run until 2018. We also publish key messages from the groups as well, so key policy messages, part of our work. So we share experience, we work together and share different insights. Also in terms of working with organizations and member states, I thought it'd be interesting to mention that on the 1st of December, so just in a few weeks time, we launched the Digital Skills and Jobs Coalition. We're working with our colleagues in ZG Connect on this. And this will bring together stakeholders from education, from industry, from many different organizations to work on tackling this digital skills gaps through national coalitions, so a lot of work at the member states level as well. So we'll have a launch conference on the 1st of December in Brussels. Registrations are open in case any of your organizations are interested in joining. And at this event, we'll also have an award ceremony for European Digital Skills Initiative in the education and in other sectors as well. So that should be an interesting day. So this is a part of the School of Agenda initiative. We had previously a Digital Skills and Jobs Coalition, some of you may know about it, the Grand Coalition. But this is going to be a bigger version of this really with a lot more emphasis on the education element. So previously it was a lot of industry stakeholders, but we're really growing and expanding on what we've been doing up to now. That might be of interest for some of you. We also have other awareness raising initiatives like EU Code Week that we ran in the middle of October. And this is to get bringing formal and non-formal learning really together, promoting coding, promoting computational thinking and learning in the classroom, outside the classroom. Many, many thousands of events across Europe on this has been run since 2013. So that's in terms of cooperation with different organizations. In terms of platforms and training, I'm happy to say that actually just last week we relaunched Open Education Europa. That's a website that myself and my colleagues run here on innovating education in Europe. And it's a hope for sharing best practice. We have basically restructured the site. We hope we've made it simpler, easy to use. It's still in a beta version, not everything is working on the site quite yet, but I'd really like your input and your feedback on that and how we can improve it. So it's really a space, a community where people can come together and share what they're doing to make education more open, more innovative, how they're using digital technologies, how they're tackling this digital skills gaps. So I think the Eden community might be interested in getting involved on this website, and I'd really welcome that. We have many other platforms. We also have the E-Twinning Network, which is a very, very large network of teachers in Europe who come together for training for classroom to classroom cooperation and projects. And they just had their annual conference recently looking at the whole area of digital literacy. I thought I'd mention to European School Net Academy, we work in close partnership with European School Net, also based here in Brussels, and they run many fantastic courses for teachers on their School Net Academy. And that could be something worth checking out as well if you're not aware of that already. So that's platforms and training. Of course we have our funding programs. Many of you will know about this already. So many funding programs which are supporting digital skills, digital skills training, closing the digital skills gap. We have our Arrasmus Plus project, which would be the big project for my department, Education and Culture. We also have the European Social Fund, which does many, many projects on digital skills training. And we have Horizon 2020, which is the big research framework funding program as well at the new level. So just to say these funding programs are also helping from many, many projects on the digital skills area. In Arrasmus Plus we have a thousand plus projects on digital skills and ICT in education. So I'm happy to answer any questions. People can contact me afterwards when you have addresses at the end if you have any questions on the funding. Just to say we also fund Ministries of Education working together on innovative projects and policy experimentations, we call them. And there's a number running at the moment in the ICT field. So just to mention as well, we also commission research. We work very closely with the Joint Research Center in Seville, which is the European Commission body. And there's a team of researchers there working on ICT, on open education, on digital learning. And those reports are available online for everybody. So just to say that we're also trying to keep on top of the whole research field to look at emerging areas in digital skills and digital learning. That could be something of interest to you as well. And finally, I thought I'd mention too some of the competence frameworks that we've developed also with the JRC in Seville and with the support of our working group on digital skills and competencies. Probably the one that's best known is the Digital Competence Framework for Citizens. Of course, there's a lot of talk about what competence means. Is it about coding? No, it's not just coding. It's also about literacy. It's about safety. It's about communication. So the creative use of technology. So we've developed with the JRC a Competence Framework for Citizens, which has been taken up in many, many countries and has helped shape curriculum there, has shaped also initiatives and outside formal learning. And that's been revived this year to become 2.0. And it's organic. It's been changed all the time. So that's something I thought I'd draw your attention to. I think other speakers referred to it earlier in the panel. And we also have the Competence Assessment Framework for Organisations that we've developed and we're working on the Competence Framework for Teachers as well for educators. So that's work that's ongoing that helps shape and influence curricula and the member states can take it up. They can modify it. They can change it. It's out there for them to use. So in my short presentation, I've tried to run through the policy challenges that we face in digital skills. There is a very urgent need to tackle this digital skills gap. It's an opportunity for us as well to create more growth and employment. This is a labour market issue, but it's a lot more. It's about digital inclusion. It's about allowing people to participate fully in society. And I've run you through some of the initiatives. Obviously in the short time I haven't been able to talk about everything, but I've run you through some of the initiatives that we're doing with different partners because I think that really is the solution to work with government, with education, with education systems, with industry, and I think only together that we'll actually make a difference in tackling this gap. I've tried to run you through some of the awareness-raising activities, some of the new things in the pipeline like the Digital Skills and Jobs Coalition, the launch conference on 1st December, and also our new website, Open Education Europa. So I'm more than happy to answer any questions by email. Sorry again about the technical problems earlier and I look forward to being in touch with many of you. Thank you. Diana, if you would like to take the floor. Diana is Director of the eLearning Center at the Polytechnica University of Timosora, Romania, and she will be talking to us today about developing Digital Skills, a bottom-up strategy in Romania. So the floor is yours, Diana. I'm here in the Polytechnica University of Timosara, Romania. Today is a very special day in a way for us because it's our university day. Back 96 years ago in 1920, we were established as a Romanian Technical University here in the very west corner of Romania. So I'm presenting in a special day of my university. I'm not very proud of that. But I'm going to speak more about the Digital Skills, what we are doing here in Romania, and because we just lost Dietrich, I'll go quickly over the things which I suppose she would have said is about the digital competence framework for citizens, which the European Union just recently has re-released the 2016-2015 version, which includes also is part of the EuroPath nowadays. And as you see, there is a huge gap between certain countries, as you already seen in the last slide which Dietrich had, about what's happening in Europe in different countries in terms of digital competencies and digital skills. I quite like this idea which the British JISC Association has included about the developing of the student digital literacy, because it speaks more about what we need to focus on, we need to focus on the digital creation, on the communication, digital learning, not just on how we use this information, data, and media literacy, which is mainly the things which we are looking for. But they complete with the digital literacy the seven elements where they look much more as you can see at the career and identity management and of the learning skills which you need to develop. Because here we strongly believe that the 21st century workers will need to learn digitally for his entire life and it's our job to prepare them for that. So what is really happening is that these are the skills as Steve Wheeler, which is also a member of Eden, a quite prominent member of Eden, has showed to us that they are the digital literacy skills which we need for our students, which is social networking, trust literacy, maintaining privacy, but also creating the content, organizing it and sharing, through all the reusing and repurposing, everything which is including in the managing of the digital identity of everybody. And these are parts also of the digital competencies and skills which are included in the Europarts nowadays. The best thing which you're probably aware of is the Digital Economy and Society Index, where you can see, for example, Romania is on the last place. On the last slide, again, I'm referring to Didri's last slide, you've seen Romania the third on the ICT professionals and so on, which is true, but that looks much more than the connectivity and the human capital is used also at the digital public services and the integration of the digital technology, where is a huge gap in Romania as just 52% of the entire population of Romania have access daily to the Internet. But this is coming quite strangely, as I said and you already mentioned, Romania and the ICT is huge. So part of the ICT and the ICT professionals which are working in either information and communication technologies or in the automotive field is quite big. And I'm coming from a region which has a very high number of digital companies, as we call them, the companies where people work with a lot of digital tools and where is a lot of intellectual output as part of the product, to deliver the final product. So these are the biggest challenges which we are facing. In terms of education, we have a lot of technical education. As you see in this last statistic which we have from 2014, from the graduates from the universities in Romania. So it should look that we are doing well, but we are still the last place in the European Union in terms of the numbers of higher educated people according to the last year of start from 2014. So we organize a needs analyzed for digital competencies in the last maybe five years in Romania. And the biggest challenge for us is that there is not a clear national strategy and approach. Just recently, last week, one was discussed and it's going to be approved. There exists a very large digital device between the regions in the west and around the capital in the south. There are much more developed regions. In the east, it's not the same. Also, sometimes in the middle of the country, it's not the same. There are some big rural areas in Mishara which are mainly agricultural and doing the 20th century industry more or less. There is a need for structural training and for the encouragement of the entrepreneurship in this area. It's a high need of high ICT skills. We have a huge shortage still of the ICT higher educated person even that we produce quite a lot as we say because the companies, especially in the western Romanian region are asking for even more than this. There is also a big need of communication and multicultural skills. So in terms of this, we were thinking for the last 10 years here in the university we would change completely the engineering education by much more on the computational thinking. Computational thinking doesn't require that you need to know programming. It's much more requiring on the way how you deal with pro-solving problems that you learn from abstract to practice by solving some problems and for this you follow a very logical pattern and a very logical path. So that's the main idea. This is because we really want to prepare for the 21st century creative creators which can go the extra mile to innovate and create things using digital technologies or digital skills. We have a lot of master's and post-university degrees. We also encourage a lot of erasmus exchanges and part of the Erasmus project we also have some digital conferences project. So this is part of the everyday work but I'll try to show you something that we are doing a bit extra. First is the Romanian MOOC the Romanian Massive and Open Online Learning courses which was launched last year and which is building mainly for courses with basic levels, skills and so on in different subjects that are from ICT to as you see open education in this field also from mechanical engineering and a bit of economics and also about terms of how you decide correctly how you deal with plagiarism and so on. So there are very different kinds of skills which we are presenting and we are developing courses with together with our Romanian partners in this Unicampus classroom. For example, this is how it looks but this is the most important at least at this moment course is an M Commons course which was delivered to a lot of people which are coming from companies and medium companies, enterprises and companies which have almost no knowledge of ICT. They have very, very little knowledge of ICT and we wanted to prepare them to get ready to be included in the M Commons course. So we had from hairdresser to garage to automotive or a lot of other parts. We had some small shops which wanted to be involved in M Commons. We were producing some bio-cosmetics and so on which wanted to move to the M Commons and which came for this. So this is clearly a good idea to establish some small courses with basic skills for those which are not in the ICT area. Another project which we are doing for the last years is virtual mobility which is usually done with the university student and we've done it in the last year and involved some students from Romania working with students from the United States commonly and jointly for 8 weeks to deliver a multimedia product and there are 707 students until now involved and there was no dropout until now. So they need to work completely collaboratively using synchronous and asynchronous tools to communicate and to be able to go further to all of that. So all of this is a bit of delay and I'm worrying about that. So the idea of the TokTek project was mainly to be able to create a multicultural environment where they will need to learn online on how to do things. So this is for example a project which was done in 2015 and there is done in a lot of using a lot of tools. It's about how to design things for staying healthy. These are the tools which for example they are using quite a lot of them in total in this project the students use about 18 different tools to be able to finish their product so they develop a lot of other skills, digital skills, communication skills multicultural skills to be able to finalize this project. That's a good example of for here if it's plain which shows for example what our students have been able it's not plain. It's an interesting example on how in six seconds our students were able to show which is the best messaging app by using two seconds for three different applications which are used for messaging on mobile phone and it's very interesting one. Also recently my city has won the European Capital of Culture for 2021 and my university was strongly involved in this bid and we have three projects which are digital projects. There is a strong how to say input in this project in this entire program for the 2021 to become a digital city and to become the first digital and virtual capital of culture. There is going to be a even stronger need of developing the digital competencies for those which are not at this moment in the ITT field. This is the reason for example just two days ago we had workshop for digital skills and competencies in culture where we had almost 100 participants in the room and also as it was live stream another 50 which were following us live streaming and it lasted for almost a whole day on training a lot of the cultural actors on how to use digital skills, how to use augmented and virtual reality, how to use Web2Zero technologies from the basics to a bit more advanced skills and that's just the beginning and this is part of our involvement in the ITT community from this region in Timshara but also in Romania. Another example is how we start training in small programming skills the students, the young students as we call them from age 18 in Coderdozo Coderdozo is a large movement which started in Ireland I'm pretty sure the digital for example we have known about it and in Timshara we have one of the standard metropolitan area in Coderdozo as there are 14 dojos and almost 1000 children nowadays involved and everything is done through volunteer work and they are learning very basic programming skills and it's encouraging them to start being more confident in the digital world and know what to do. Then we also refer to the entrepreneurship part of the digital skills and competencies by having since 2014 in every 6 months in Timshara start a weekend where we encourage small companies or even private persons to come with their ideas they are judged and they get finances to get into an accelerator and to become some viable products which then can be included in the market. We look also at the higher education and we promote strongly the students which have very good projects through the interactive digital media student content which is held every year in the last few years and where we had some really amazing products which we were awarded. But one of the major things which we do also together with our partners which you see there in the right the main partner is Partov Hub and Banat IT which is a big association which deals with ICT in the west region of Romania is the hackathon where in the last years in every hackathon we had almost 5 to 600 persons which were actively involved during the weekend on producing something related with ICT as a product which is maybe in the community. The beauty of the hackathon is that it's not just programmers which are coming there, software developers but their communication their business people there is a lot of how to say media which is going around so it's really increasing the abilities of everybody of being aware of what digital skills and what they will need for the future and what can be done just from a very small and tiny idea with a bit of support from software developers how beautiful product can be developed. We have done one in open culture which was in 2015 and we are repeating this in this year about doing ICT project in culture which will be involved in that one of the best projects which was resulted of the hackathon is continuously developed through the team from the Polytechnica University is an art temen which shows with augmented reality all the public art which is in the Tinshara region there are almost 200 public art pieces on the street and when you go nearby you will have some explanation about them and what's happening there So these are our responses to Romanian needs analysis We started with a bottom-up approach with some institutional strategy but mainly working in the community nearby doing some online training as we already show through the Unicampus a lot of entrepreneurship activities which are encouraging the ICT development and the encouragement of everybody to move somehow towards the digital part of their life developing on the high ICT skills communication and multi-cultural skills which are very important in the digital world also qualification of the teachers and the trainers we have some post-university degrees for teachers and training on how to use digital tools and digital concepts even in education and also obviously some validation and application local So if you need anything else and I'm ready for questions then the slides will be also on slide share but you will also have them through the internet Thank you Diana Are there any questions for Diana about her Romania case study on digital skills I'm not seeing any in the chat Okay Johani has a question What do you see as the main disadvantage with low digital literacy in the population Diana based on our research is mainly access to information So I will give you just one single example Access to digital skills and to digital literacy and skills in the digital literacy allows a lot of people to access the website for example where there are a lot of calls for different projects and different funding There are a lot of projects for example through the European Social Fund for Romania which are in the agricultural sector and the ICP skills of those which are working in the agricultural sector even if there are larger farms not just more familiar based on a family farm which don't have those skills and that's one of the biggest challenges for them to access the funds because everything from the information to the submission is done online and it's a basic thing which they will need to do so that's one of the things which you have access to information then obviously it's access to anything if you want to even renew your ideas if you want to find out anything about property development in the city or in anywhere in Romania all that information is nowadays online and you have the needs to have basic digital skills to be able to access them basically I see that the main gap is here the main gap between the very high education people the ICT professional and those which are working in non-media ICT professionals which are very eager to access this world and very eager to know about more about information but sometimes even more than accessing a social media network or accessing a very simple website they have no idea how to do it they will don't know how to fill even a form online there's a huge gap between them and that's the basic thing which I see is the biggest problem is access proper access to information in some cases to funding in some cases for further development for in some cases even for a small company as we had this eco biological cosmetics company which wanted to sell her products online and she couldn't because she had no idea how to establish a shop to look she realized that her products are cheaper much more cheaper than a lot of others with the same characteristics so it's just changing some people's words if you introduce them to proper use of technology have you encountered any difficulties with your instructors in terms of getting them up to speed or on board yes sometimes there are for example as we do a lot of our training goals online they can't access it so this is why we split we do workshops which are face to face even for a day because it's quite difficult for a lot of them to be away for a longer period where we introduce them to the basic concept and then the rest we follow online and that is the thing which we are really trying to do nowadays plus we do all of these big big events which are for everybody which are very highly publicized there's a lot of media attention to them which is also encouraging them to come to not necessarily just to the university but to the entire community in this part which is delivering a sort of training or encouraging them to look at the digital world I see Johani also will the gap become smaller in the future if yes how yes I think it will come smaller in the future definitely how I think basically a lot of training and proper exposure even through media there is for example there are some small media news in a lot of very large television outlets which will show your different tools and how to do things and so on which are very short and very dedicated to a specific scale and so on even that will encourage them to do last is becoming compulsory so for example nowadays when you are in the 6th place so you are age 11 12 you already start doing a bit of programming and you have from in fact from the age of 7 you have some computing skills how to say courses integrated in the curriculum the compulsory curricula so as we go further in times of those which already are probably going to graduate why so we have even more prepared workshops to have proper digital skills even for those which are non-ICT as I said in Shanghai it's huge and west of Romania it's huge in the ICT professionals we have a lot of them even in short it's a big gap between even the country and even in between the professionals I think we could probably have a whole session just on discussing the digital divide and how to reduce the gap Deidre is back online and her audio is working again so what I'd like to do is hand it over to her so that she can continue on with her presentation Deidre. Thank you so much. Okay there still seems to be some problems with Deidre's microphone yeah Deidre I think that would be a great idea if you would record the session later and then we will try to include it so Christina let's try to check in with Deidre later and ask her to put together a recording of her presentation so that we can include it as part of this week and I apologize to those who have come to hear Deidre speak today so we'll you know but we will put together a recording of her presentation alright with that I'd like to move on to the next presentation which is from Helga Dorna who works at the Center for Teaching and Learning at the Central European University in Hungary she's going to be talking to us today about getting connected and enhancing digital competencies through curriculum internationalization in higher education so Helga the floor is yours. Thank you Lisa and thank you for inviting me to join this panel today and I am not going to give you let me start with you know by saying that what I'm not going to talk about give you a national perspective but more like a case study which is embedded in educational research basically so my contribution to the reflections on the new digital skills agenda will focus on exploring the question of how to enhance digital competencies through curriculum internationalization in higher education and I would like to propose a model and how that model could eventually be put into practice in the higher education classroom so I will talk about some pedagogy as well and I hope that you don't mind since this is not really directly linked to policy analysis but in any case just to locate and just to highlight the relation between this topic and of course the new digital skills agenda for Europe I would like to start with the three priorities for action and I underlined priority number one which is improving the quality and relevance of skills formation so basically the project, the model and the actual application classroom application is linked to this sort of priority which is the number one priority within the document as well as the information. The document also talks about various skills that should be enhanced within the framework of course in higher education skills such as transferable skills to work in a team creative thinking, problem solving competencies such as digital competencies entrepreneurship, critical thinking problem solving, learning to learn and so on. And the document also problematizes the fact that maybe the development of these skills is not so much integrated in university curricula and and out of these competencies, digital competencies is of course the primary topic of today's session so let us briefly look at how the European digital competence framework handles basically digital competencies so it highlights five key areas information and data literacy, communication and collaboration digital content creation safety and problem solving and of course these five key areas are further broken down into 21 competencies and this clear distinction of competencies tells of course university teachers and students in higher education to re-end themselves when it comes to skills development in these areas. Now the big question for us I guess in higher education and if I talk about my own case as a teacher and lecturer in higher education like how to integrate these competencies in teaching, learning education and I argue that one possible solution is of course curriculum internationalization what do I mean by curriculum internationalization at least defines it the incorporation of an international and intercultural dimension into the content of the curriculum as well as the teaching and learning processes and support services of a program of study so it's not necessarily inviting a couple of guest lecturers or having some international readings but it's a much more complex issue and it also focuses on how to transform teaching and learning processes and how to come up with a meaningful design to do that and of course if we want to do course redesign or curriculum redesign with an eye on the internationalized curriculum then of course we have to know the characteristics of the internationalized curriculum which reflects the plurality of knowledge engages students in critical inquiry of diverse sources and contexts of knowledge and of course requires a broader perspective to course content which is of course supposed to prepare our students to become successful in a complex and internationalized world and of course reflects commitment to developing and supporting physical thinking and active students learning and if we go back to the European digital competence framework we can see some overlapping notions so basically what we can draw at this point in time some sort of a conclusion is that if we try to integrate internationalization and internationalize our curriculum then eventually we could come up with an idea of how to also integrate digital competencies so how to get digital how to enhance digital competencies through internationalizing the university curriculum and of course Diane also touched upon this question of virtual their students virtual mobility and basically this is directly linked to that, to those projects since the concepts of curriculum internationalization has already included new perspectives on technological advances because students with virtual mobility such as internet access and of course ICT can now be considered as international students and they can potentially have international learning experience if digital technologies are used to internationalize content and approaches to teaching learning in the curriculum so eventually we could easily involve groups of international students and expand our own classroom so basically the model that I'm we have been working with and I'm proposing here is of course encompasses ICT information and communication technologies through which online collaborations can be established and through that digital competencies can be enhanced the other big element within the model is of course the internationalization which are for example cultural awareness, critical thinking interdisciplinary thinking reflective thinking and so on and of course we do have the strictly speaking curriculum framework which of course focuses on specific competencies and enhancement of the digital skills through internationalization happens at the intersection of these three areas and you can see the arrow pointing to that area and the next question which I usually get from my colleague when fellow research is of course okay this model is really nice, looks nice fancy but how do you apply the model in actual teaching in higher education so how will you redesign your curriculum how will you redesign your course if you were to follow this model well there have been some models in practice in classroom practice of different higher education institutions and of course the methodological precedent is the telecollaboration where online activities and interaction with foreign partners are integrated into the in-class space to space activities and we at our institution have developed the so-called international collaborative seminar which is a regular university course that involves two in-person learning communities located at two simultaneous teaching sites that collaborate in video conferencing and I think one is online work in practice it means that we have a group here in Hungary and Budapest and we have another group in Estonia and we work throughout the semester together with these two groups and with two teachers basically first are fellow colleagues in Australia who also have been playing around with this model develop the following synchronous learning classroom environment and colleagues in Hong Kong use the term blended synchronous learning to describe this sort of setup but the point is that that basically telecollaborations international collaborative seminars or these blended synchronous learning environments give us an opportunity to integrate enhancement of digital skills through internationalizing our curricula but what are concrete actual practical pedagogical solutions if you will for example structured online discussions to reflect on cultural and regional differences and values and assumptions affecting the discipline and how these might affect the actions of individuals or group projects that require working online with peers from another cultural group to compare and contrast with specific and similar professional issues or synchronous and asynchronous online discussion groups that link students from different cultures to enable them to complete tasks solve problems gain international perspectives on issues or establish international networks so basically it's not about it's not only about inviting guest lecturers it's not about adding extra readings to include international perspectives but basically redesigning courses to to allow students to allow our students to collaborate online through online tools and eventually to solve problems to think creatively to reflect on the learning through digital competencies and through this methodology digital competencies and the enhancement of these competencies is integrated in the curriculum which after all is so much needed as stated by the European Commission document but of course this is just too ideal as it is with all innovations if you will there are some challenges and of course some benefits just to give you a couple of ideas about challenges of course demands are placed on teachers and students as well such as the university teachers have to split their attention between the two student groups face to face students, remote students trying to promote seamless interaction among the groups and members of the group and of course that has eventually the implication that they have to compromise on their pedagogical approaches and of course talking about our students this can be also an imposition since face to face students for example are in a way intimidated by the camera the video conferencing set up eventually the transaction of distance but nevertheless just to close my quick presentation and reflection with some positive ideas if we revisit the digital competency areas then we can see that indeed there are some overlaps and these overlaps basically show us that there is indeed hope for a meaningful integration and I'll just focus on a couple of points such as through this model and through this integration our own face to face classrooms are opened up and make the academic engagement for our students relevant to life in a broader sense and of course there is this ongoing and sustained sense of shared responsibility for learning together as a community to develop a trusting environment and to develop interpersonal relationship and of course the whole set up by digital technology provides students with hands-on experience with telecollaborative practices and digital skills development so just to round off my quick presentation yes the subtitle of this panel is of course the question whether we are on the right path I think the research which has gone into this blended synchronous learning on telecollaborations or virtual mobility of our students has proved that we have moved into the direction of meaningful integration of the skills enhancement in higher education curricula and we hope to continue this work thank you for your attention if you have any questions about the research behind it about the model please feel free to contact me thank you that was a very interesting discussion a very interesting presentation we do this within my program we have quite a few students from UNISA who are part of our program and many students in the US so there is a real sensitivity or realization of the differences that occur in terms of digital skills gap between the two different countries and so I think a real sensitivity about those gaps comes through that kind of curriculum where there is intercultural involvement checking here to see if we have any questions in the chat most of the comments right now in the chat are about digital skill gaps generation gaps that also occur are there any questions for Helga okay I just have a short question Helga and that is how do we in this current political environment of a move toward more nationalization how do we realize these kinds of collaborations with other institutions do we need to get our leadership involved in realizing this one of the research studies has shown that one of the big obstacles of not having too many of these initiatives at the institutional or at the national level is the lack of support from management and because it's a huge commitment resource resource wise is not so much a commitment but definitely a commitment to opening up classrooms which is of course part of the open learning initiative is a very sensitive issue so indeed we would need support from university management I could imagine if there was a win-win situation okay Diana has a question she's asked can you describe a specific experience of a student or group of students who have a usage approach so we have had so far four of these seminars and for example when we had our students here in Budapest and our students in the United States from different disciplinary backgrounds I think the most beneficial about the situation was of course the intercultural engagement eventually multi-culture because in our classroom as well we had different nationalities represented as well as in the US classrooms but going beyond that so the physicality that we are here you are there I think much more intriguing was for our students to explore how certain how certain ways of thinking can be transformed in a community and how we can take responsibility for each other's learning through a very close collaboration and the second thing which was great to experience for someone teaching master's students structural students in particular that we are closed up in our disciplinary silos so we focus on our own research we focus on our own teaching opening up our classrooms this way and become interdisciplinary which is actually also suggested by the European Commission document that interdisciplinarity should be supported and eventually integrated in the higher education classroom so I guess interdisciplinarity and breaking down these barriers I think that's a very useful experience for our students at least this is what they reported when they were interviewed and surveyed and the rest of that okay great we also have some feedback from Liz who says that she appreciates that you show us clearly what you do in practice I think that's also very important that we see how it is that we can realize the things that we want to want our instructors and our students to adopt so I think a very good point okay moving on to the next presentation we have who is the director of digital competencies program of studies psychology and science education at the and in Spain and she will be talking about digital skills and teaching and learning the case of Spain so I'm going to hand it over to you now please take the floor looking forward to your presentation okay thank you thank you very much Lisa and thank you also to them for this presentation I am a research at the WALK University is an online school university created in 1995 and I work there I have been working there until more than 30 years my objective today is to talk about the digital skills teaching and learning in Spain let's hope for that okay I talk about two things the digitalization in Spain in general and also the digitalization in skills and teaching and learning in Spain the first one I'm going to talk about digitalization in Spain but in relation to Europe and I introduce the framework of digital skills in Europe here you can see in the slide I'm talking about the digitalization in Spain according to Eurostat you can see Spain 55% basic skills 74% basic skills in communication you can see in this slide according to European Commission Spain is the 15 to 28 countries in digital skills in Europe you can see Spain is improving in terms of connection and internet use but in relation to digital competence only 45% as the report says in this scenario I want to talk also about the digitalization from Spain is presented in February in 2013 and have some important goals in education the goals are in education and ICT the teacher training and lifelong learning the virtual environment and also the common framework and reference and finally in education community now I will talk about the framework of BGComp it's a framework is based on use as a support policy through our building provide common language identify and evaluate the areas as also a tool to improve citizens and plan education and training initiative in this framework that some people before they have 5 areas and also 21 competencies here we have the implementation of digital in Europe but I want only to talk about the implementation in Spain completely you can see we have implementation in policy support also investment and employability and finally in special needs in teaching and learning now I want to talk about digital skills in teaching and learning in Spain and as you see before we have we want to talk about the policy support in Navarra the Department of Education use BGComp as a key reference for strategy and planning and also the best about the assessment and employability the best country have a specific project ICANN OPS and it is designed by the best government using BGComp framework and this includes an online testing tool that based in BGComp areas also Andagosia have a portal Andagosia Digital by the regional government of Andagosia to offer a free of sense online self assessment about the five areas of BGComp and after the self assessment can access to training materials in the different five areas also here in Catalonia we have an active is an accreditation system for ICT in Catalonia that is active since 2005 and this model is previous to BGComp I told a little more about this accreditation this accreditation is a start in 2005 and work participating in the definition of this competence to and participation in digital technology computer and operating systems browsing and communication in digital work writing information and management graphics audio and video management digital information management data management and content presentation this three this accreditation are three levels initial level intermediate level and advanced level at this moment the accreditation are working to improve in relation to digital now I want to talk about teacher professional development as you can see in the map we have in Spain the Ministry of Education created a common framework for teaching digital competence based on digital and it use the planning teacher professional development and we have some specific MOOCs some MOOCs and some digital resources to improve the digital competence from the teachers also in Spain in Extremadura there are a teacher digital competence portfolio and in Catalonia in 2014 we had interdependental project on teachers digital competence and I participate in this department project and this proposal is according to the framework of digital training competence and consists in two kind of knowledge the third one is ICT competence refers to instrumental use and technology who are trained in the acting the accreditation in Catalonia and also the teaching skill and methodology organized in five dimension design planning implementation of education organization management of space and educational resource communication and collaboration ethics and digital citizens and professional development those are the teacher professional development and now I want to talk about the students digital competence in Spain we have a definition of digital competence for primary and secondary school in that make the definition and is about the five dimensions about digital information communication, concentration safety and solving problems one second I can see now in Catalonia we have also a specific definition of students competencies according to teacher competencies and to dimension accreditation and the dimension of instrument and application information process and organization of work and learning environments interpersonal communication and collaboration and citizens advocacy and digital intelligence now I want to finish this talk about in Spain we worked since 1994 in different programs to introduce the ICT in schools and one important program is Programa Escuela 2.0 and it provide one top class in Chile in the classroom and make teacher change the teacher methods currently we have some programs one is about European school the other one is in schools in school it's working about models and in coordination in Barcelona and we have a lot of projects also about computers and so on but they are specific projects we cannot speak or whether digitalization in the school now I will finish this presentation and to talk about the program of the work in high education area you know work is online fully university and we have in this online fully university specific competence called use and application of digital technology in academic and professional context and here I show you the program about the different level of the digital competence in the first level digital device we call the third dimension of the university we have some seminars, workshops and one MOOC and this MOOC is for all citizens Catalonia and for everybody this is in Spanish also in the second level the medium level the ICT competence we have an ICT competence course for the all undergraduate at the university it has an equivalence for the intermediate level of the ICT and in this course we work with a digital project in group in small groups and we have 4,000 students every year also we have some in the third level in digital transformation we have some postgraduate course some specialization and also master degree about learning for the specific teachers and in all these programs we work with digital competencies finally I try to answer the questions to this webinar where we think in Spain we are in the right direction but we moving at very slow pace if we look at the evolution of the workplace and the technology in relation to have working in education I think it's very important thinking about the developing programs about digital skills I don't know if you are today I read a paper about ECBL the fallacy of the digital native and they say the native have a very good instrumental competence but they need more the digital competence to use the digital tools I finish with the reflection because it's always thinking how to improve to make or design the programs to help citizen students and professional to have a very good digital competence not only instrumental but more general digital competence thank you very much here we have the links if you need some more information and if I have some questions thank you very much are there any questions for Monse please enter them in the chat box if you have any questions Monse other than the difficulties that you are encountering in terms of the slow rate of adoption what are other challenges that you have encountered I think the problem in the education is slow because the teachers don't have enough enough knowledge about how to use the digital competence and use the digital competence in the normal teaching and I think the challenge is to improve the teaching training or the all level primary school, secondary school and also at the university at the open university the teachers have digital competence because we make all in the digital space but usually in the face to face university the teachers don't have a lot of digital competence and I think the problem is not also how to use the technology the problem is how to use the technology to change the methodology also because when we use the new technologies you can change the methodology. Our last speaker today is Margarita and she is from the Lithuania Distance and e-learning Association and she is going to be talking to us about innovations and challenges in technology enhanced e-learning from a teacher perspective in Lithuania so Margarita please go ahead Thank you, hello everybody from Lithuania from Mitotas Magnus University and my presentation will be about some cases about the innovations to be introduced in our university more in broader sense in Lithuania so I will speak about virtual mobility in higher education already previous speakers mentioned this but my position is through the teacher through the challenges teacher face when applying virtual mobility also about the possibility to introduce open educational resources to curriculum and a little bit about quality assurance so actually innovations here coming through here in Lithuania coming through the cooperation between education institutions and Lithuania Association of Distance and e-learning which is read by Mitotas Magnus University and we seek to develop synergy among national, regional, European initiatives and programs and through the conference training seminars joint project research and quality assurance actions so the main is virtual mobility actually when we Diana spoke about this Helga spoke about virtual mobility but a lot of questions were coming to us when we started to think how we are going to introduce and implement virtual mobility for our students and for our teachers and the questions was how can teachers and institutions prepare for virtual mobility what are virtual mobility processes and what decisions need to be taken to start virtual mobility processes not so easy not so easy when at traditional university and when you want that more teachers would apply this innovation how to design a curriculum for virtual mobility it's actually different what competences maybe improved or developed in virtual mobility activities how to implement and what learning can teach and what technological solutions should be used so innovations came through not only one but maybe several projects but the latest one is when consortium universities developed virtual mobility curriculum for a master degree program in a collaborative way by teachers from consortium universities then consortium universities Padia University or the other university Spain Open University Portugal Loven University and our university each partner leads the development of at least two study subjects or two models that we set as credits in total master study program in educational science composed from ten modules yes but it's actually program interdisciplinary as it was used best experience in the field of education ECT and management and then program already created is a unique online program as a whole or split and used by modules modules it could be implemented later by each partner individually or in cooperation with one or two partners yes there is our platform with the courses partly open one or third of the course open and students could register for virtual mobility could apply for the course in any university participating in the program and they become virtual mobile but actually to create the curriculum for virtual mobility it was really a challenge for teachers of course we already did that but it's a challenge because of many many issues first of all because of the studying timelines in different countries also some intercultural issues here is in this table is just an example of the the modules the subject we created and every university in partnership with a Laver University was responsible for the was responsible for the creation of the module and actually we find here is our curriculum modules names of the modules different kinds, school leadership education for sustainable development web ethics management of education innovation intercultural education and communication it's already exist but the challenge is for collaboration of teachers from different institutions actually very different experience in creating online courses different quality assurance requirements in every university different scenarios of contact hours University of life different experience in online learning not only for teachers but also for students you know some some it is quite not easy to encourage you know teachers work collaboratively and try to together to decide on group work on collaboration for the students yes and also understanding of time point of view to this virtual mobility and other challenges so we already have this and the project and virtual mobility was successful for more than 70 students from this 16 universities another innovation is the related to open educational resources what is also based on some project project initiated and it is directed to post the open international collaboration of professionals for innovation and also to train the staff of educational institutions to use their use and develop of open educational resources and create a innovative curriculum for work based learning using where this innovation is not it's not only at universities also for them for that schools and centers key innovations in training of teachers and trainers as well as adult educators are open educational resources as the you know as the definition as the what it is an open curriculum development and license actually it takes time to discuss with teachers and to to make it clear also open collaboration as well as designing curriculum for the best target groups including the mode of work based learning and also validation of open educational resources but you know we have good results for developed for teachers for in West and West teachers in the project open proc project we developed three main three training materials on OER and sustainability models what covers open educational resources types characteristic development processes guidance for use reuse and creation second training material it is ICT tools to develop and adapt OER and also to license for OER use and the fact training material is innovative curriculum designing for work based learning for web and adult education so it was created by teachers 24 open educational resources and 24 was adopted so you can see it's small pieces of open educational resources but they are unique as teachers themselves and also not only this but also implemented to their curriculum and in total 48 open educational resources was created in partnership and it's national languages and English languages and also all resources were integrated to curriculum so six open courses have been created and those courses are on national languages and also in English language actually it is also great experience for teachers to start in steps consequently courses and open them for self-learning or some for registered users for for adult education for CVS or some for university students so all of them are online openprof.com so requirements that we think for teachers for cooperation openprof but also in more general is yes to have some digital competence yes maybe not the framework but you know starting openness it's important for idea-sharing critics and learning very important attitude towards collaboration and innovations and challenges that teachers face creating and adapting open educational resources tools to be used for creation tools for publishing requirements for where editable version also questions to discuss how much open educational resources should be open should be adapted to become a new open education resource and how open are we should we open our our resources for commercial use or not many questions have been discussed during the process and finally going to and also we use several projects projects for to support teachers for quality assurance of online learning and integration of this products that was created allow us to use accreditation of formal and non-formal courses by peer review at Lithuanian e-learning and distance association it already exists and also allow us to develop quality assurance procedure at university level for distance learning courses so I finish thank you for listening thank you very much Margarita we've got a couple of questions still in the chat area so I'd like to ask those while we still have everyone here the first one is from Johani who is asking you what is your experience in openness among teachers how many of them are actually sharing and giving away OER resources I think probably in regards to Wiley's five hours and do they feel rewarded in any way when they have shared content so the questions are in the chat box if there's a lot of them there so yeah yeah you know actually teachers are interested are very interesting but they are more willing to use open educational resources than to create and share because it's not easy work and requires a lot of efforts but some skills we need to encourage maybe more something to do more for teachers if we want that they would share with create and share and are there any rewards you know but you know rewards comes when you see that in your course when you adopt open educational resources or create it's students are happy and they like to use this so it's kind of reward but you know it could be it could be another type of reward you know some collaboration with them on international level and to exchange of good practices of knowledge it's also reward for teachers but of course for that we need projects we need programs and when you are alone it's quite difficult if you are alone but actually yes we are working with teachers and trying to encourage and it is it is the way what is... we also have a question the happy students is a great reward and he was commenting that there might be a good idea that also have some recognition for the faculty Helga has a question do you also work with teachers? Yes surely when it is possible it's you know as I represent not only you know distance in learning association but also in universities so here is our study innovation centers we have the course for common creative and open educational life common creative life but also for open educational resources just for teachers and yes encourages Johanie had asked a question that it was actually to Mante but maybe you and Mante could also respond to it the question was experience and openness among teachers how many of them are actually oh sorry that's a wrong question oh I got to try to find my way up this chat here that question you've already answered Margarita so I'm just going to skip that digital natives I think it's a myth that makes us believe that young people understand and use digital tools so naturally but it is very much an individual skill do you I've lost the lost the chat do you see any signs of frustrations in youth that can't use technology perhaps Mante and Margarita or anyone else on the panel could respond to that question okay Mante if you want I can respond well the the question is the native is the individual competent I think it's the the problem I think it's they are very happy using technology but they don't know how to use the technology for application to the collaboration and to the other thing I think this is the big problem and I think the here at the university we make some research about our students are students to 30 40 and 15 years old and we make our research with the Canada University with the young students and there are no differences between instrumental technology there are differences between the use of the technology because the young people have more strategy how to use the technology to collaborate research or have a good research and the young students have the instrumental competency but they don't know how to use as well the technology for real work for communication for collaboration anyone else on the panel would like to respond to that question if I am allowed to scan Diana raise my hand I am blowing yes we have seen quite a lot of frustration I will give you two examples first is the frustration mainly for in-depth using which we saw for our students which are part of the digital mobility project which we are running since 2008 so 2008 ideas of using you know Skype or voice threat to create online presentation completely digital it was quite new even for students that 6-7 years ago it was still using but they become more confident as they start using them so in that use of certain technologies which are new for them we are using Orasma which is an augmented reality tool for the students to create really an augmented reality application virtually working completely one in two students in Romania two students in America so we always push the boundaries to them and to be able to learn in-depth more about new technology so that's the basic frustration because once that some tools applications of technology become more familiar they become confident so we are pushing it to expose them to very very new technology so we will increase their confidence that's how we get rid of the frustration which they had at the beginning because with the popular technology they know how to do it but with the Orasma and the other is two years ago we had a project where we put students with seniors usually around 55 to 75 years old to show them how to use properly common applications Facebook, Skype and even blogs and how to read online newspapers and how to aggregate news online and so on and the frustration we've seen in the seniors was very different from the frustration in the youngsters the youngsters felt very frustrated that the seniors couldn't really understand some basic concepts but could really grasp the communication part so they were much more sure to communicate freely and openly than the youngsters which was surprisingly for me but the youngsters had the frustration that they couldn't explain it enough for the older generation to understand it because they put the students to be the trainers of the older generation so there are... you can carry on for ages for the digital natives and digital things like that but the biggest problem is confidence on using tools so if you expose them to the tools and you just explain it to a bit and you encourage them to use it then there's no difference between age groups or the level of education that's the only thing is increasing their confidence on using the tool and then there are more comfortable and the frustration is almost... obviously when it works like when it doesn't work like today then we are all frustrated hmm so anything that Helga you would like to add yes, just a brief comment that it's it's one thing the use of technology but in our case I think it's more like the question why do we need to use that for our sort of formal learning because I guess students are very often they very often use technology for their informal learning situations but when it gets to for example I primarily work with face to face students and I work with blended models and then of course the question or with virtual mobility that is to some extent some form of blending and then I always get the question like why do we need to have these you know have the technology and why is it meaningful so I get understanding the relevance of using technology with our students that's the second most important thing I guess it's the same thing the same applies to teachers as well when it comes to integrating technology in primary, secondary education Yohani made the comment that maybe we need to read some fairy tales for the digital natives so they can form some common general metaphors that explain technological concepts and Diana and Margarita unfortunately need to leave so we probably should wrap things up there is just one last question from Yohani to Manse about moving from consumer to producer have you heard about any Spanish initiatives Manse did you want to try to answer that question the question is moving the from consumer to producer for us it's very important we participated in a project about where in Open Educational Resolve at the analysis how the students can be more producer than consumer and also the problem is the same how they know how to use the technology to the real application in our case at the Open University the students make a digital project that I told before and when they make the result of the project is a web making collaboration for a web for a real situation of the professional space for example the people who study make a web or to promote something and in this case they give to creators not only our consumers and for us this is very important and also with the when we teach projects at the university the results of the project are also the materials for the results for the next students and the idea is the students and the the creators and not only the methods of the the results okay great are there any further questions or comments about that anyone would like to post to the panel okay wait a minute this is this is typing I'd like to take this moment to invite you all to the next webinar which is on using ICT in medical environments and that will be at 3 o'clock so if you're interested please be sure to attend the topic is called from ICT focus group analysis in home hospital education to a practical guide the LEHO project and attending that please do take some time and go visit that at 3 o'clock today the link has been posted here as well thank you Christina so thank you all for coming today and for your questions of being so involved and participating in European distance learning week and we look forward to seeing you at the next webinar and also next year when we hold European distance learning week again thank you and of course thank you to all of our speakers thank you